Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used for ID. T.Sep 1, 2009 03:47:23 PM, katy...@yahoo.com wrote: Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair.Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ).I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints.And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting. Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came... And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information. Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted.Katy--- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother To: "'Cavers Texas'" texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM Scan away...I have nothing to hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to worry about. Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and passportwas scanned in Brazil and was surprised that they just implemented that technologyand my passport was scanned coming back into the US And I was scanned on a trip toEurope before thatso it is not just the US heading this way.. And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car checking people out on the computer. And my bank has been using the thumbprint authorization for a few years. I suspect this is just part of the world now...and although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and subscribe to several e-lists such as this. There are bigger problems in the world than this.--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother To: "'Mixon Bill'" bmixon...@austin.rr.com, "'Cavers Texas'" texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. -Original Message- From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one I had. Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
The newest Alien ID cards that I've seen have some sort of plastic strip that has the numbers visibly embedded within them and could have some sort of hologram business that would hold a large amount of personal information. --Ediger Side note: Technically it's SSAN (Social Security Account Number) but has been popularly shortened to SSN or, more anally, just social. --GE On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, tbsam...@verizon.net wrote: The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used for ID. T. Sep 1, 2009 03:47:23 PM, katy...@yahoo.com wrote: Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair. Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ). I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints. And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting. Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came... And yeah, I saw the Life of Others- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information. Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother To: 'Cavers Texas' texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM Scan away...I have nothing to hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to worry about. Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that they just implemented that technologyand my passport was scanned coming back into the US And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before thatso it is not just the US heading this way.. And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car checking people out on the computer. And my bank has been using the thumbprint authorization for a few years. I suspect this is just part of the world now...and although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and subscribe to several e-lists such as this. There are bigger problems in the world than this. --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother To: 'Mixon Bill' bmixon...@austin.rr.com, 'Cavers Texas' texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. -Original Message- From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Foil hat- I hear ya Joe! I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep out Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as Big Stepdad) I'm gonna call it the Faraday Freedom Frock (working title). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, I believe there are cases comercially available to put your phone in to block any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally, I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves available for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in the new passports). As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: what a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problem disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste of government resources (surprise!). As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who meekly gave up her right to privacy. But of course, after 4 years of school to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of people willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If she kept her privacy she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills. OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her own place (at the time). It's just like the social security number: not to be used as identification. Try to get credit without one! I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options... -B On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing... I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't buy any portable electronic device. Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this one yet... Time to get out my foil hat! Joe On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is associated with things much different than it once was. I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. -Original Message- From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what privacy really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related To: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for thermonuke devices. I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay out of my HEAD - FEDS! And as far as tracking my relative position between cell phone towers - How else can I receive a phone
Re: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
If you've everbeen a government worker, you've probably been fingerprinted. School teachers tend to be employed by a government. Anyway, we have to keep those paedophiles away from the chirren. TSep 1, 2009 10:03:17 AM, riordan.br...@gmail.com wrote: Foil hat- I hear ya Joe!I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep outBig Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as "Big Stepdad")I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working title).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cageIf you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, Ibelieve there are cases comercially available to put your phone in toblock any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally,I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves availablefor blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in thenew passports).As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: whata crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problemdisguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste ofgovernment resources (surprise!).As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who "meeklygave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4 years of schoolto teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of peoplewilling to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If shekept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills.OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her ownplace (at the time). It's just like the social security number: "notto be used as identification". Try to get credit without one!I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options...-BOn Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing... I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't buy any portable electronic device. Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this one yet... Time to get out my foil hat! Joe On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is associated with things much different than it once was. I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. -Original Message- From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related To: "Mixon Bill" bmixon...@austin.rr.com Cc: "Cavers Texas" texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for thermonuke devices. I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay out of my HEAD - FEDS!And as far as tracking
