texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 -0000 Issue 1276
texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 - Issue 1276 Topics (messages 17463 through 17474): Re: Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17463 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Calling breakfast cook volunteers 17464 by: Saj Zappitello 17467 by: Saj Zappitello TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday! 17465 by: Jim Kennedy Re: cave-diving video 17466 by: David Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend! 17468 by: Saj Zappitello an LED light review 17469 by: David Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention 17470 by: Rod Goke 17473 by: Rod Goke Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info 17471 by: David Some days you just should sleep in 17472 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Punkin Cave trip report, 18-20 March 17474 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition. *Note: The word completed was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: Solicit pre-orders on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them. When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it. That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a feel good emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase
texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 -0000 Issue 1276
texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 - Issue 1276 Topics (messages 17463 through 17474): Re: Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17463 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Calling breakfast cook volunteers 17464 by: Saj Zappitello 17467 by: Saj Zappitello TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday! 17465 by: Jim Kennedy Re: cave-diving video 17466 by: David Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend! 17468 by: Saj Zappitello an LED light review 17469 by: David Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention 17470 by: Rod Goke 17473 by: Rod Goke Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info 17471 by: David Some days you just should sleep in 17472 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Punkin Cave trip report, 18-20 March 17474 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition. *Note: The word completed was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: Solicit pre-orders on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them. When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it. That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a feel good emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase
texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 -0000 Issue 1276
texascavers Digest 29 Mar 2011 12:48:31 - Issue 1276 Topics (messages 17463 through 17474): Re: Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17463 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Calling breakfast cook volunteers 17464 by: Saj Zappitello 17467 by: Saj Zappitello TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday! 17465 by: Jim Kennedy Re: cave-diving video 17466 by: David Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend! 17468 by: Saj Zappitello an LED light review 17469 by: David Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention 17470 by: Rod Goke 17473 by: Rod Goke Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info 17471 by: David Some days you just should sleep in 17472 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Punkin Cave trip report, 18-20 March 17474 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition. *Note: The word completed was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: Solicit pre-orders on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them. When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it. That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a feel good emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase
