Re: [Therion] xtherion: "Edit line" contextual menu for line points doesn't work

[Jenny Black via Therion]

On 24 February 2017 at 10:42, Rodrigo Severo via Therion 
wrote:

>
> Can at least somebody confirm that this behaviour is happening wiht others
> too?
>
>

Yes, I've had this problem too. I meant to report it or investigate
further, but never quite got round to it, and just used the menu on the
right pane instead. I'm using the debian version of therion.

I'd be very happy if it got fixed :)

Thanks,
Jenny
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Simple Android map software with export to Therion

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

> It would be nice if any of you who have first hand experience with using the
> different android-alternatives could share your experiences.

I used topodroid for the first time this year. It was our first time
paperless surveying, so I can't compare it with pockettopo, sexytopo
or any of the other options, but compared with paper I thought it was
pretty good and I'd be keen to use it again.

We bought a cheap new android tablet, a 7 inch Huawei Mediapad for
NZ$119. This isn't waterproof so we bought a plastic lunch-box to
transport it through the cave, and a waterproof bag for use while
surveying. The 7 inch screen was plenty big enough, and great for
surveying walking size passage, but annoyingly big for SRT and
crawling-size (or smaller) passages. I think 4.5 and 5 inch android
phones are a similar price and would tuck inside your oversuit more
easily, and given you can zoom in and out, I suspect they'll be big
enough to use topodroid. The waterproof bag worked fine in dry and
drippy caves, as long as you squeezed the air out before sealing it.
In wetter passages (which were fortunately rare) once the bag got wet
on the outside it was much harder for topodroid to recognise my
drawing. I also found that I usually couldn't wear gloves, so ended up
with very cold hands surveying. I suspect fingerless gloves would
easily solve this, but I was reluctant to cut my gloves
mid-expedition! Battery life seemed to be fine, and it would last
multiple surveying trips.

I didn't find topodroid too hard to learn to use, and I'm really not a
geek (as my past mails to this list prove!). We did have a bit of a
learning curve to start with, but that was partly to do with us
getting used to the workflow of paperless surveying, and me learning
how to do notes (I've typically done instruments in the past).

That is not to say that there isn't room for improvement in topodroid,
and I hope sure it will evolve and improve over time. My two biggest
criticisms were:

1. In the end I found it most efficient to export the data in survex
format and the sketches as pngs (higher res would be better), then
re-drew them in therion. I know you can bring the drawings into
therion directly, but I would spend longer joining line-wall segments,
flipping them the right way round and smoothing them.

2. It is a shame that you can't see the rest of the cave (even if it
was just the centerline), just the survey you are in. At least you can
open up different surveys to check things, but it woudl eb nice to see
where other passage was in relation to your current survey.

There are a few other more minor things that could be better (e.g.
rotating air and water flow arrows is clunky, cross sections are
annoying, some of the icons are misleading etc) but these aren't a big
deal.

Thanks,
Jenny
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Grid coordinates appearance

[Jenny Black]

Hi Paulina,

I asked a similar question last year
(http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.therion/4919). The conclusion
seemed to be that it sadly isn't possible. I'd also like to have the x
coordinates along the x-axis, and the y coordinates along the y-axis,
but all you can plot are pairs of coordinates.

Hopefully someone an figure out a solution!

Thanks,
Jenny

[Therion] Plotting scraps and the centreline together

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

I want to plot both the centreline for the entire cave and passages in
the scraps I have drawn. I can do one at a time but can't figure out
how to plot both.

In my thconfig file I have:
 symbol-show point station
 symbol-show group cave-centreline
 symbol-show point station-name
 debug station-names

so when I don't have any scraps, I get the centreline and stations
nicely plotted for the entire cave, which is proving very helpful with
figuring out where to break loops for my extended elevation.

However, as soon as I add in my scraps, which I've been doing by adding:
 input 107ee_ropeless.th2
 input 107ee_china_new.th2
 input 107ee_oldroute.th2
to my .th file I can only see the centreline (and walls, etc) for the
scraps of drawn and not the rest of the cave.

I'm sure it is possible to plot the scraps *and* the entire
centreline. I'm sure I read it on a mailing list post when I was
looking fro something else, but I can't rmanage to re-find it. Can
anyone help?

In case it makes a difference, I am plotted an extended elevation and
reading in survex data as a 3d file.

Thanks,
Jenny

[Therion] Extended elevations from survex.data

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

I'm currently fighting with extended elevations in Therion. Before I
start posting a whole lot of stupid questions, I'll start with
clarifying what the right way to do this is.

The cave isn't huge (3.5 km), but is relatively complex with multiple
interconnected loops. The data is in survex format
(ftp://ftp.gns.cri.nz/incoming/JennyB/therion/107.3d).

When I've draw plans in therion, I've successfully used survex's 3d
file. I'd like to do the same for my extended elevation. I'm not sure
which of the following is the correct way to go (I run into problems
each way!):

1. read in the original .3d file for the cave (the same one I use to
draw the plan), and then choose where to break loops (and extend legs
to the right or left) in my .th file as documented
http://therion.speleo.sk/samples.doc/25.html. For example:

import ../../../all.3d -surveys use
survey 107
 centerline
   extend ignore  oldrift.17 oldroute2.17
   extend left ent.13
   extend right ent.16
 endcenterline
 input 107ee_ropeless.th2
endsurvey

2. use survex's extend command
(http://survex.com/docs/manual/extend.htm) to create an extended 3d
file, but control the extend right/left in the .th file as above. I
guess I'll need to control breaking of loops in survex via the .spec
file, otherwise survex will choose where to break the loops for me.
This is roughly what the mailing list suggests is the correct answer
(though I note breaking of loops is not mentioned):
http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/2007-November/001685.html
and is the approach I took with mixed success a couple of years ago. I
did manage to generate an elevation without needing to break any loops
(either with "extend ignore" in therion or "*break" in survex):
http://expo.survex.com/expofiles/surveys/107/107-elv-2013.pdf but
we've since then found more cave and closed more loops, and it doesn't
work on the new data set, which is what started me fighting and made
me wonder if I was doing this the right way.

3. use survex's extend command with the .spec file to create a 3d file
to control the breaking of loops and which direction to extend (left
or right). Don't do any "extend ignore" or "extend right" in the .th2
file.

Who has successfully drawn extended elevations using survex data?
Which approach did you take? Are there any clever tricks, or things I
might be missing?

Thanks,
Jenny

[Therion] Grid coord label placement problems

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

I've been having some problems getting grid labels to appear how I
want around my survey. I've put some examples on my ftp site so you
can see what I mean. The files mentioned below can all be found:
ftp://ftp.gns.cri.nz/incoming/JennyB/therion/ .

To add a grid and some coordinate labels, I added:

 grid bottom
 grid-coords border

to my thconfig file. The grid itself is plotted as I expect, but the
coordinates are not quite how I would like them. I've played around a
bit and there appear to be two problems (neither of which I know how
to fix!):

1. the coordinates don't exactly appear on the border - they seem to
be plotted on the crosshair point that is closest to, but outside of,
the survey. The pdf output isn't extended to included these. Sometimes
this is OK, because the legend is outside of the survey area so these
numbers are visible (2004-01-plan.pdf). Other times, the numbers are
either not visible at all, or clipped (e.g. 2004-01-plan-original.pdf
- the number on the East and West axes are clipped, those on the North
axis are completely off the page, and those on the South axis are
sufficiently far from the survey they interfere with the legend).
Whilst I can work around this by use of grid-size and with placing
objects like the legend in suitable places (e.g. 2004-01-plan.pdf),
this isn't going to look as nice, especially for: 107-plan.pdf, where
you currently don't see numbers on any axis except the west, and then
only the final two digits.

- Is there a way to extend the output page to include these
coordinates so that they aren't clipped (as happens automatically for
the map and legend)?

- Is it possible to plot the numbers on the edge of the survey rather
than the nearest crosshair point?

- can I specify which axes they appear on (e.g. I'd like to see them
on the South and West, but not North and East)


2. The coordinates are plotted in the form: (x,y) along each axis, I'd
like to only show the x coordinates on the x axis, and the y
coordinates on the y axis (with no brackets or comma). Is this
customisable in the thconfig file?

I can't see anything in the thbook or mailing lists about how to solve
these problems, but I'm sure other people have had them too, and I'm
missing something, I just don't know what!

I get the same output on windows 7 with therion 5.3.15 and linux with
therion  5.3.16.

I hope that I have explained this clearly enough, but please let me know if not.

Thanks,
Jenny

[Therion] Symbol different in legend to survey

[Jenny Black]

Hi Stacho,

me and Martin, we have tried to reproduce your error with different
> patterns based on base-scale setting but without success. Are you able to
> isolate it to some small sample, that we can investigate?
>

Thanks for looking at my problem. The fact you cant reproduce it probably
means I am doing something stupid, sorry.

I've made a small example set that shows the problem. Have I missed
something critical form the thconig file?

Thanks,
Jenny
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 107-plan.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 28039 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 107test.th2
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 4281 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: test.th
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 110 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: thconfig
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 1808 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

[Therion] Therion hanging after compile

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

Thanks very much Bruce and Andrew. I tested Andrew's Cheddar files on this
linux machine, and therion ran nice and quickly. I then tested my files on
my Windows 7 machine at work. Having seen that it would sometimes hang for
Bruce for a minute, I was patient and left it after it hung. It hung for
10.5 minutes, but then was OK. The same is true on linux. I wasn't patient
enough!

Olly has just had a look (thank you Olly!), and in xtherion he changed:

set rx {\S*[^\]\s]\s+\[\d+\]}
to:
set rx {\s\[\d+\]}

It now no longer hangs, and runs as well as ever. We're not sure what the
regular expression search was for, or whether changing it matters. As far
as I can see it doesn't, as the pdf and log files have already been made.
Maybe someone with more therion knowledge will know, and if the cahnge is
good maybe it can be applied.

Thanks,
Jenny
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Therion hanging after compile

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

When I compile therion, it appears to compile fine (assuming I haven't made
a mistake!), and the green button on the right changes to green, and says
"OK",  but then it will hang. It is still running, and using lots of CPU,
but I cant do anything with it without killing it.

This happens either if I compile by hitting F9, or pressing the "compile"
button. The same thing happens if I make a mistake and it doesn't compile,
but gives me a red "Error" button.

When I restart therion, and load back in my files everything works as
expected... until I compile it again.

I am running therion from debian (unstable) package 5.3.14-1, but I think
this also happened in the previous version.

Thanks,
Jenny

___
Re-sending this message a week later as it didn't appear to reach the list
(though i got no bounce message), apologies if you get it twice.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Slope symbol needed

[Jenny Black]

>I thought, you have already changed at least some of these symbols
>(see Jenny's map of Eislufthohle
>http://cucc.survex.com/expo/plateau/76/76_final_col_small.png).

I kind of cheated to do this, I noticed that the BCRA slope symbol is
similar to the UIS entrance arrow symbol.  I also noticed that the BCRA
clay symbol is the same as the UIS flowstone symbol.  So as the cave i
was drawing had no flowstone, but some clay (and I didn't mind not
being able to use the UIS entrance arrow symbol), Olly helped me to add
the following to the thconfig file:

code metapost
  let p_gradient = p_entrance_UIS;
  let p_clay = p_flowstone_UIS;

which successfully worked for the point symbols anyway.  Presmambly it
wouldn't be too hard to get therion to have an option for BCRA symbols,
as many of them already exist, although sometimes for different things.

Thanks,
Jenny

[Therion] Legend symbols

[Jenny Black]

Hello,

I really like the way therion can automatically create the legend, and
it plots only the symbols you have used.  However, I have just noticed that
if I have sometimes plotted "waterflow" (for example) as a Line symbol
and sometimes as a Point symbol, there will be two boxes in the legend,
both called "waterflow" but with slightly different water flow symbols
in them. Perhaps, for symbols that could be drawn as a point or line,
the ledge needs to only make ne entry for them?

I think there might also be a similar issue if you use the point or area
symbol for say sand, "sand" will appear twice in the legend, with 2
slightly differnt pictures.

Thanks,
Jenny

[therion] scale / base-scale question

[Jenny Black]

Hello again,

Thanks for replying so quickly again.  I tried adding this to my layout
and I'm afraid it didn't make any difference, the water-flow arrow heads
are still all wiggly.  Do you have any other ideas?

Thanks agian,
Jenny

>>To fix the water-flow arrow bug, add following metapost code to your layout.
>>
>>  code metapost
>>  def p_waterflow_permanent (expr pos,theta,sc,al)=
>> U:=(.15u,.5u);
>> T:=identity aligned al rotated theta scaled sc shifted pos;
>> pickup PenC;
>> p:=(0,.5u){down}..(.12u,.3u)..(-.15u,.15u)..(.13u,0)..
>> (-.08u,-.2u)..{down}(0,-.5u);
>> p:=p rotated 180;
>> thdraw p;
>> oldahlength:=ahlength; ahlength:=2.5pt * optical_zoom;
>> thdraw arrowhead p;
>> thfill arrowhead p;
>> ahlength:=oldahlength;
>>  enddef;

scale / base-scale question

[Jenny Black]

Hi,

>> How do I make underlying passage look paler than the main passage?
>
>
> It is very simple:


Adding in the "break"s within the maps worked well, thank you!

Now I have another question to do with scaling...

I want to print out the final survey at 1:500 (to be consistent with other 
caves in the area).

However most of the cave passages are between 1 and 2m wide.  I have noticed 
that you use 1:200 for drawing up passages of a similar width, and have 
therefore the symbol sizes have been designed accordingly.

I tried several different combinations of scale and base-scale options, with 
the following results:

1) scale 1 500
* symbols (water and air flow arrows especially) are disproportionately large 
for the passage, the arrow heads of the water-flows are often larger than the 
passages they are in
* wall lines seem very thick, and overshadow the smaller passages

2) scale 1 500
  base-scale 1 200
* labels are small (but I can change that easily enough with the "fonts_setup" 
thing described in The Therionbook)
* water-flow arrowheads are all wiggly rather than triangular
* air-flow arrows and other symbols are great

3) scale 1 200
* symbols look good
* but at 1:200, not 1:500, perhaps I could scale it in a graphics package 
before printing, though this seems like cheating!

Any suggestions for how to create the best output?

Thanks,
Jenny

[therion] 2 Therion Questions

[Jenny Black]

Thanks Stacho, for answering my other questions so quickly.  I've got another 
question now, that maybe you or someone else can answer...

How do I make underlying passage look paler than the main passage?  I can see 
that it is possible as you have successfully done it in two of the examples, 
demo and demo-padavka.  But I don't seem to be able to get the effect with our 
own data.

Thanks,
Jenny