[Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Bruce Mutton]

Thanks Martin

So we now have confirmation of the same inconsistent map-connection
behaviour, relative to offset level, across three different ways of managing
surveys and maps:

*   Separate surveys and maps (Martin's example, Therion best practice)
*   Maps defined in surveys (My example from 2022, TopParser, Sexy Topo
approach)
*   Maps defined separate to surveys, but then included in next-level
surveys (My usual practice)

 

Suggests to me that the inconsistent map-connection behaviour is not related
to how surveys and maps are managed, but is rather a built-in characteristic
of Therion behaviour.

Tarquin mentioned that he could not replicate this inconsistent behaviour.
Now that we have teased out the problem some more, can you confirm that you
were testing the same issue Tarquin?

 

Bruce

 

From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via
Therion
Sent: Friday, 24 March 2023 08:28
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Martin Sluka 
Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels -
Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

 

 

23. 3. 2023 v 20:13, Bruce Mutton mailto:br...@tomo.co.nz> >:

 

One more question.

I presume you have strict separation of surveys and maps in this dataset, as
demonstrated here
<https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq#how_to_arrange_the_maps>
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq#how_to_arrange_the_maps and
<https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/s_m> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/s_m ?

 

 

I use it as preferred method. 

 

Martin

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Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 23. 3. 2023 v 20:13, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> One more question.
> I presume you have strict separation of surveys and maps in this dataset, as 
> demonstrated here https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq#how_to_arrange_the_maps 
>  and 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/s_m  ?
> 

I use it as preferred method. 

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Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi, 

I used the offset only to generate final map. 

Definitions of particular maps is very simple:

map modrovska_s01.map
  modrovska_s01
endmap

 map modrovska_s08.map
  modrovska_s08
endmap

map modrovska_s03.map
  modrovska_s03
endmap

map modrovska_s10.map
  modrovska_s10
endmap

map modrovska_s11.map
  modrovska_s11
endmap

map modrovska_s12.map
  modrovska_s12
endmap

map modrovska_s12-21.map
  modrovska_s12.map
  modrovska_s21.map
endmap

map modrovska_s13.map
  modrovska_s13
endmap

map modrovska_s14.map
modrovska_s14
break
modrovska_s14a
endmap

map modrovska_s15.map
  modrovska_s15
endmap

map modrovska_s16.map
  modrovska_s16
endmap

map modrovska_s19.map
  modrovska_s19
endmap

map modrovska_s19-24-25.map
  modrovska_s19.map
  break
  modrovska_s24-25.map [0 -8 m] below
endmap

map modrovska_s20.map
  modrovska_s20
endmap

map modrovska_s11-20.map
  modrovska_s11.map
  break
  modrovska_s20.map [-3 -3 m]  below
endmap

map modrovska_s21.map
  modrovska_s21
  break
  modrovska_s21a
  modrovska_s21b
endmap

map modrovska_s22.map 
  modrovska_s22
endmap

map modrovska_s24.map
  modrovska_s24
endmap

map modrovska_s24-25.map
  modrovska_s25.map
  break
  modrovska_s24.map [0 -7 m] below
endmap

map modrovska_s25.map
  modrovska_s25
endmap

map modrovska_s26.map
  modrovska_s26
endmap

map modrovska_s27.map
  modrovska_s27
endmap

map modrovska_s28.map
  modrovska_s28
endmap

map modrovska_s30.map
  modrovska_s30a
  break
  modrovska_s30
endmap


Martin

> 
> Interesting Martin
> Your example mostly demonstrates one level of offset, but it goes to two 
> levels bottom-left (to blue to purple), and apparently three levels at the 
> bottom (to green to blue to dark blue).  However looking closely it seems 
> that the map-connection line to blue goes directly from yellow (ie not from 
> green).  If this is the case there are two scenarios: 
> 
> Scenario 1 - based on the map-connection line I have highlighted, both the 
> green and blue are first-level offsets.  I may be mistaken as the image is 
> not sufficiently clear.
> If it is two levels of offset, then that is not sufficient to trigger the 
> ‘bug’ David and I have described.
> If it is three levels of offset, then you have somehow managed to avoid the 
> ‘bug’ and the map-connection lines/points are coincidentally on the same 
> alignment.
>  
> Scenario 2 – is that this example demonstrates the ‘bug’ described, if not 
> particularly clearly.  My synopsis of the bug was “the line created by point 
> map-connection is only correctly originating from its parent map at the most 
> deeply nested level of offset and at the 1st level offset.  At all other 
> (intermediate) offset levels, the map-connection line reverts to originating 
> from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.”
>  
> So Martin, if you could perhaps clarify.  I suggest adding a horizontal 
> component to the light blue map in my snip above, and confirming whether the 
> map offsets are two or three level.
> If it is two level, it does not test the bug. If it is three level and there 
> is no ‘bug’, the map connection line, blue to dark blue, should radiate from 
> blue and not from yellow.
>  
> Tarquin
> I’ll respond to your message later – off to work now!
>  
> Thanks
> Bruce
>  
> From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> 
> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2023 23:08
> To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
> Cc: Martin Sluka mailto:martinsl...@mac.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset 
> tests SAMD-ITF-IS example
>  
> Just a sample. Colorised by altitude.
>  
> M.
>  
> 
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Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I have access to internet on mobile, but not access to data. Sorry. MartinOdesláno z iPhonu19. 3. 2023 v 0:53, Bruce Mutton :Thanks MartinThe definition shows just first level offsets. Taken together with the submap naming and the image of the map itself, I deduce that:- map s11-20 contains a second level offset.- map s19-24-25 contains a second and third level offset.  This is the one that I am unsure as to whether or not it displays the bug I have proposed.  Hopefully I have identified them correctly in the image below.- none of the other maps include an offset. modrovska_s12-21.map seems to include two maps, but they have not been offset from each other.  Can you supply the map definitions for modrovska_s19-24-25.map, and any submaps it might contain, down to scrap level?Can you change the offsets for the submaps below modrovska_s19-24-25.map so they do not line up with each other? I am suspicious that the map-connection line that I have highlighted in light blue shows that the bug I describe is present in your example.  ie The intermediate offset level (light blue map) map-connection line reverts to originating from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.  But I cannot be sure without the above two bits of information. Also, another variable.  I presume from our correspondence over the years that it is likely that this dataset maintains complete separation of maps from surveys.  ie There are no survey objects that have map objects defined within them.That will be interesting regardless of whether this dataset manifests this ‘bug’ or not. Thanks for your effort.Bruce From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via TherionSent: Thursday, 16 March 2023 22:33To: List for Therion users Cc: Martin Sluka Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example Definition of that map: map modrovska_plan.map -title "Modrovská jaskyňa"  modrovska_s01.map  modrovska_s03.map  break  modrovska_s30.map   modrovska_s12-21.map [-18 10 m] below  break  modrovska_s27.map #Mostová sieň  break  modrovska_s26.map [10 -5 m] below  modrovska_s16.map [25 10 m] below  break  modrovska_s11-20.map [-7 -5 m] below  break  modrovska_s19-24-25.map [0 -10 m] below  modrovska_s13.map [-10 5 m] below  modrovska_s28.map [-2 -9 m] below  break  modrovska_s14.map [14 -3 m] below  break  modrovska_s15.map [1 -22 m] below  modrovska_s22.map [-20 0 m] belowendmap 15. 3. 2023 v 19:56, Bruce Mutton <br...@tomo.co.nz>: Interesting MartinYour example mostly demonstrates one level of offset, but it goes to two levels bottom-left (to blue to purple), and apparently three levels at the bottom (to green to blue to dark blue).  However looking closely it seems that the map-connection line to blue goes directly from yellow (ie not from green).  If this is the case there are two scenarios: Scenario 1 - based on the map-connection line I have highlighted, both the green and blue are first-level offsets.  I may be mistaken as the image is not sufficiently clear.If it is two levels of offset, then that is not sufficient to trigger the ‘bug’ David and I have described.If it is three levels of offset, then you have somehow managed to avoid the ‘bug’ and the map-connection lines/points are coincidentally on the same alignment. Scenario 2 – is that this example demonstrates the ‘bug’ described, if not particularly clearly.  My synopsis of the bug was “the line created by point map-connection is only correctly originating from its parent map at the most deeply nested level of offset and at the 1st level offset.  At all other (intermediate) offset levels, the map-connection line reverts to originating from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.” So Martin, if you could perhaps clarify.  I suggest adding a horizontal component to the light blue map in my snip above, and confirming whether the map offsets are two or three level.If it is two level, it does not test the bug. If it is three level and there is no ‘bug’, the map connection line, blue to dark blue, should radiate from blue and not from yellow. TarquinI’ll respond to your message later – off to work now! ThanksBruce From: Therion <therion-boun...@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via TherionSent: Wednesday, 15 March 2023 23:08To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>Cc: Martin Sluka <martinsl...@mac.com>Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example Just a sample. Colorised by altitude. M. ___Therion mailing listTherion@speleo.skhttps://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___Therion mailing listTherion@speleo.skhttps://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion___
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Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I’ll answer later. Right now I’m not an internet. MartinOdesláno z iPhonu19. 3. 2023 v 0:53, Bruce Mutton :Thanks MartinThe definition shows just first level offsets. Taken together with the submap naming and the image of the map itself, I deduce that:- map s11-20 contains a second level offset.- map s19-24-25 contains a second and third level offset.  This is the one that I am unsure as to whether or not it displays the bug I have proposed.  Hopefully I have identified them correctly in the image below.- none of the other maps include an offset. modrovska_s12-21.map seems to include two maps, but they have not been offset from each other.  Can you supply the map definitions for modrovska_s19-24-25.map, and any submaps it might contain, down to scrap level?Can you change the offsets for the submaps below modrovska_s19-24-25.map so they do not line up with each other? I am suspicious that the map-connection line that I have highlighted in light blue shows that the bug I describe is present in your example.  ie The intermediate offset level (light blue map) map-connection line reverts to originating from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.  But I cannot be sure without the above two bits of information. Also, another variable.  I presume from our correspondence over the years that it is likely that this dataset maintains complete separation of maps from surveys.  ie There are no survey objects that have map objects defined within them.That will be interesting regardless of whether this dataset manifests this ‘bug’ or not. Thanks for your effort.Bruce From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via TherionSent: Thursday, 16 March 2023 22:33To: List for Therion users Cc: Martin Sluka Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example Definition of that map: map modrovska_plan.map -title "Modrovská jaskyňa"  modrovska_s01.map  modrovska_s03.map  break  modrovska_s30.map   modrovska_s12-21.map [-18 10 m] below  break  modrovska_s27.map #Mostová sieň  break  modrovska_s26.map [10 -5 m] below  modrovska_s16.map [25 10 m] below  break  modrovska_s11-20.map [-7 -5 m] below  break  modrovska_s19-24-25.map [0 -10 m] below  modrovska_s13.map [-10 5 m] below  modrovska_s28.map [-2 -9 m] below  break  modrovska_s14.map [14 -3 m] below  break  modrovska_s15.map [1 -22 m] below  modrovska_s22.map [-20 0 m] belowendmap 15. 3. 2023 v 19:56, Bruce Mutton <br...@tomo.co.nz>: Interesting MartinYour example mostly demonstrates one level of offset, but it goes to two levels bottom-left (to blue to purple), and apparently three levels at the bottom (to green to blue to dark blue).  However looking closely it seems that the map-connection line to blue goes directly from yellow (ie not from green).  If this is the case there are two scenarios: Scenario 1 - based on the map-connection line I have highlighted, both the green and blue are first-level offsets.  I may be mistaken as the image is not sufficiently clear.If it is two levels of offset, then that is not sufficient to trigger the ‘bug’ David and I have described.If it is three levels of offset, then you have somehow managed to avoid the ‘bug’ and the map-connection lines/points are coincidentally on the same alignment. Scenario 2 – is that this example demonstrates the ‘bug’ described, if not particularly clearly.  My synopsis of the bug was “the line created by point map-connection is only correctly originating from its parent map at the most deeply nested level of offset and at the 1st level offset.  At all other (intermediate) offset levels, the map-connection line reverts to originating from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.” So Martin, if you could perhaps clarify.  I suggest adding a horizontal component to the light blue map in my snip above, and confirming whether the map offsets are two or three level.If it is two level, it does not test the bug. If it is three level and there is no ‘bug’, the map connection line, blue to dark blue, should radiate from blue and not from yellow. TarquinI’ll respond to your message later – off to work now! ThanksBruce From: Therion <therion-boun...@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via TherionSent: Wednesday, 15 March 2023 23:08To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>Cc: Martin Sluka <martinsl...@mac.com>Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example Just a sample. Colorised by altitude. M. ___Therion mailing listTherion@speleo.skhttps://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___Therion mailing listTherion@speleo.skhttps://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion___
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[Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Bruce Mutton]

Thanks Martin

The definition shows just first level offsets. Taken together with the submap 
naming and the image of the map itself, I deduce that:

- map s11-20 contains a second level offset.

- map s19-24-25 contains a second and third level offset.  This is the one that 
I am unsure as to whether or not it displays the bug I have proposed.  
Hopefully I have identified them correctly in the image below.

- none of the other maps include an offset. modrovska_s12-21.map seems to 
include two maps, but they have not been offset from each other.

 



 

1.  Can you supply the map definitions for modrovska_s19-24-25.map, and any 
submaps it might contain, down to scrap level?
2.  Can you change the offsets for the submaps below 
modrovska_s19-24-25.map so they do not line up with each other? 

I am suspicious that the map-connection line that I have highlighted in light 
blue shows that the bug I describe is present in your example.  ie The 
intermediate offset level (light blue map) map-connection line reverts to 
originating from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.  But I 
cannot be sure without the above two bits of information.

 

Also, another variable.  I presume from our correspondence over the years that 
it is likely that this dataset maintains complete separation of maps from 
surveys.  ie There are no survey objects that have map objects defined within 
them.

That will be interesting regardless of whether this dataset manifests this 
‘bug’ or not.

 

Thanks for your effort.

Bruce

 

From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
Sent: Thursday, 16 March 2023 22:33
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Martin Sluka 
Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset 
tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

 

Definition of that map:

 

map modrovska_plan.map -title "Modrovská jaskyňa"

  modrovska_s01.map

  modrovska_s03.map

  break

  modrovska_s30.map

 

  modrovska_s12-21.map [-18 10 m] below

  break

  modrovska_s27.map #Mostová sieň

  break

  modrovska_s26.map [10 -5 m] below

  modrovska_s16.map [25 10 m] below

  break

  modrovska_s11-20.map [-7 -5 m] below

  break

  modrovska_s19-24-25.map [0 -10 m] below

  modrovska_s13.map [-10 5 m] below

  modrovska_s28.map [-2 -9 m] below

  break

  modrovska_s14.map [14 -3 m] below

  break

  modrovska_s15.map [1 -22 m] below

  modrovska_s22.map [-20 0 m] below

endmap

 

15. 3. 2023 v 19:56, Bruce Mutton mailto:br...@tomo.co.nz> >:

 

Interesting Martin

Your example mostly demonstrates one level of offset, but it goes to two levels 
bottom-left (to blue to purple), and apparently three levels at the bottom (to 
green to blue to dark blue).  However looking closely it seems that the 
map-connection line to blue goes directly from yellow (ie not from green).  If 
this is the case there are two scenarios: 



Scenario 1 - based on the map-connection line I have highlighted, both the 
green and blue are first-level offsets.  I may be mistaken as the image is not 
sufficiently clear.

If it is two levels of offset, then that is not sufficient to trigger the ‘bug’ 
David and I have described.

If it is three levels of offset, then you have somehow managed to avoid the 
‘bug’ and the map-connection lines/points are coincidentally on the same 
alignment.

 

Scenario 2 – is that this example demonstrates the ‘bug’ described, if not 
particularly clearly.  My synopsis of the bug was “the line created by point 
map-connection is only correctly originating from its parent map at the most 
deeply nested level of offset and at the 1st level offset.  At all other 
(intermediate) offset levels, the map-connection line reverts to originating 
from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.”

 

So Martin, if you could perhaps clarify.  I suggest adding a horizontal 
component to the light blue map in my snip above, and confirming whether the 
map offsets are two or three level.

If it is two level, it does not test the bug. If it is three level and there is 
no ‘bug’, the map connection line, blue to dark blue, should radiate from blue 
and not from yellow.

 

Tarquin

I’ll respond to your message later – off to work now!

 

Thanks

Bruce

 

From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk> > 
On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2023 23:08
To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk> >
Cc: Martin Sluka mailto:martinsl...@mac.com> >
Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset 
tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

 

Just a sample. Colorised by altitude.

 

M.

 



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Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset tests SAMD-ITF-IS example

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Definition of that map:

map modrovska_plan.map -title "Modrovská jaskyňa"
  modrovska_s01.map
  modrovska_s03.map
  break
  modrovska_s30.map
 
  modrovska_s12-21.map [-18 10 m] below
  break
  modrovska_s27.map #Mostová sieň
  break
  modrovska_s26.map [10 -5 m] below
  modrovska_s16.map [25 10 m] below
  break
  modrovska_s11-20.map [-7 -5 m] below
  break
  modrovska_s19-24-25.map [0 -10 m] below
  modrovska_s13.map [-10 5 m] below
  modrovska_s28.map [-2 -9 m] below
  break
  modrovska_s14.map [14 -3 m] below
  break
  modrovska_s15.map [1 -22 m] below
  modrovska_s22.map [-20 0 m] below
endmap

> 15. 3. 2023 v 19:56, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> Interesting Martin
> Your example mostly demonstrates one level of offset, but it goes to two 
> levels bottom-left (to blue to purple), and apparently three levels at the 
> bottom (to green to blue to dark blue).  However looking closely it seems 
> that the map-connection line to blue goes directly from yellow (ie not from 
> green).  If this is the case there are two scenarios: 
> 
> Scenario 1 - based on the map-connection line I have highlighted, both the 
> green and blue are first-level offsets.  I may be mistaken as the image is 
> not sufficiently clear.
> If it is two levels of offset, then that is not sufficient to trigger the 
> ‘bug’ David and I have described.
> If it is three levels of offset, then you have somehow managed to avoid the 
> ‘bug’ and the map-connection lines/points are coincidentally on the same 
> alignment.
>  
> Scenario 2 – is that this example demonstrates the ‘bug’ described, if not 
> particularly clearly.  My synopsis of the bug was “the line created by point 
> map-connection is only correctly originating from its parent map at the most 
> deeply nested level of offset and at the 1st level offset.  At all other 
> (intermediate) offset levels, the map-connection line reverts to originating 
> from the top-level map, and not from its direct parent.”
>  
> So Martin, if you could perhaps clarify.  I suggest adding a horizontal 
> component to the light blue map in my snip above, and confirming whether the 
> map offsets are two or three level.
> If it is two level, it does not test the bug. If it is three level and there 
> is no ‘bug’, the map connection line, blue to dark blue, should radiate from 
> blue and not from yellow.
>  
> Tarquin
> I’ll respond to your message later – off to work now!
>  
> Thanks
> Bruce
>  
> From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> 
> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2023 23:08
> To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
> Cc: Martin Sluka mailto:martinsl...@mac.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Therion] 2 Map-connection issue - Going to four levels - Offset 
> tests SAMD-ITF-IS example
>  
> Just a sample. Colorised by altitude.
>  
> M.
>  
> 
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> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion 
> <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion>
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