[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

On Mar 9, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Wookey wrote:
> Given the positive feedback on this it looks like I should package  
> this
> for Debian/Ubuntu along with the therion packages. As
> 'therion-inkscape'.
>
> Thomas, is there an online code-repository anywhere or is that zipfile
> 'it'?

it's just that zip-file.

> You don't appear to have allocated any version numbers. Shall we call
> this verison '0.2'? It would be useful to version your releases so
> people know which one they have.


I do have version numbers, the th2-latest.zip is currently linked to  
th2-1.6.zip

http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-1.6.zip

Cheers,
   Thomas

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Wookey]

+++ Thomas Holder [2011-02-13 15:18 +0100]:
> Hi all,
>
> I wrote import and export plugins for Inkscape to edit th2-files. 
>
> Download:
> http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-latest.zip

Given the positive feedback on this it looks like I should package this
for Debian/Ubuntu along with the therion packages. As
'therion-inkscape'.

Thomas, is there an online code-repository anywhere or is that zipfile
'it'?

You don't appear to have allocated any version numbers. Shall we call
this verison '0.2'? It would be useful to version your releases so
people know which one they have. 

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM
http://wookware.org/

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Footleg]

OK, now using the latest version of the inkscape plug-in. Much improved
thanks! Having worked out how inkscape labels lines, I was able to bulk
label my line types as follows:

Wall lines and survey lines need to be labelled as such. I did this using
search and replace in a plain text editor. All my wall lines had the
property: class="c0"
So I replaced class="c0" with: class="c0" inkscape:label="line wall "

I don't know if the trailing space is needed, but I noticed it got created
in labels when I imported th2 files into inkscape so I just went with that.
All my survey lines were class="c4" so I was also able to label them by
search/replace in the svg file in a text editor too. Opening the edited svg
file in inkscape I can now export as th2. With this latest version of the
plug-in my scraps are labelled correctly using the layer names from
inkscape. To fix the coordinate range problem I found the following worked.

Before exporting from inkscape as th2, I scaled the area I was working with
to fit on an A2 page so that the coordinate range was suitable for Therion.

So now I have a workable th2 file containing a few scraps. I'll try to put
on some survey points and generate some output next.

Footleg

On 8 March 2011 10:36, Thomas Holder  wrote:

> On Mar 8, 2011, at 10:22 AM, Footleg wrote:
>
>> - Regardless of what I name my layers in inkscape, my scraps get names
>> like 'layer1', 'layer2', etc. when I convert to th2 with the layers as
>> scraps option.
>> - If I select the line type to be 'survey' in the plug-in options, the th2
>> file created contains wall lines.
>>
>
> do you have an old version of th2_output.inx and th2_output.py? Sorry for
> the hassle, my new set of plugin files replaces the previously published
> export plugin (available from
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscape). The new output plugin
> does not have a "Line Type" option anymore in favour of on-canvas
> annotation.
>
>
>  - When working with sketches which have not come from Therion in the first
>> place, you have to be careful what coordinate scale you export your inkscape
>> drawing from. If the coordinates are in the range 0-10 for the entire sketch
>> then it is not possible to zoom in very far in the therion editor to edit
>> the sketch, even if you scale the sketch in therion by setting survey
>> points. If the coordinates are in the range 0-5000 for the entire sketch
>> then things look fine in the sketch editor in therion, but the lox files get
>> created so that when you open them in Loch the scale bars are set to show
>> very large areas (~250km) and the actual cave model is lost somewhere in
>> this massive bounding box. I have found that coordinates in the range 0-500
>> seem to work best. So scale the entire sketch in inkscape in that coordinate
>> range before converting to th2.
>>
>
> I'll have look at that, thanks.
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Thomas
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
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[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Footleg]

Looks like I have the old version. I'll download the latest, thanks.

In my case where I have two types of lines in my inkscape file (walls and
survey centrelines) it was very useful to be able to export all lines of a
certain thickness as a specified therion line type. Is there a way to mark
all lines in a selection in inkscape so that the plug-in gets the right type
for them?

Another really useful addition would be the option to automatically join
lines which have end nodes at the same coordinates automatically on export.
My drawing in inkscape has lots of very short line segments and it would be
very handy if these could be exported as longer line objects in the th2
file?

Regards,
Footleg

On 8 March 2011 10:36, Thomas Holder  wrote:

> On Mar 8, 2011, at 10:22 AM, Footleg wrote:
>
>> - Regardless of what I name my layers in inkscape, my scraps get names
>> like 'layer1', 'layer2', etc. when I convert to th2 with the layers as
>> scraps option.
>> - If I select the line type to be 'survey' in the plug-in options, the th2
>> file created contains wall lines.
>>
>
> do you have an old version of th2_output.inx and th2_output.py? Sorry for
> the hassle, my new set of plugin files replaces the previously published
> export plugin (available from
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscape). The new output plugin
> does not have a "Line Type" option anymore in favour of on-canvas
> annotation.
>
>
>  - When working with sketches which have not come from Therion in the first
>> place, you have to be careful what coordinate scale you export your inkscape
>> drawing from. If the coordinates are in the range 0-10 for the entire sketch
>> then it is not possible to zoom in very far in the therion editor to edit
>> the sketch, even if you scale the sketch in therion by setting survey
>> points. If the coordinates are in the range 0-5000 for the entire sketch
>> then things look fine in the sketch editor in therion, but the lox files get
>> created so that when you open them in Loch the scale bars are set to show
>> very large areas (~250km) and the actual cave model is lost somewhere in
>> this massive bounding box. I have found that coordinates in the range 0-500
>> seem to work best. So scale the entire sketch in inkscape in that coordinate
>> range before converting to th2.
>>
>
> I'll have look at that, thanks.
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Thomas
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
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[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

On Mar 8, 2011, at 10:22 AM, Footleg wrote:
> - Regardless of what I name my layers in inkscape, my scraps get  
> names like 'layer1', 'layer2', etc. when I convert to th2 with the  
> layers as scraps option.
> - If I select the line type to be 'survey' in the plug-in options,  
> the th2 file created contains wall lines.

do you have an old version of th2_output.inx and th2_output.py? Sorry  
for the hassle, my new set of plugin files replaces the previously  
published export plugin (available from 
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscape) 
. The new output plugin does not have a "Line Type" option anymore in  
favour of on-canvas annotation.

> - When working with sketches which have not come from Therion in the  
> first place, you have to be careful what coordinate scale you export  
> your inkscape drawing from. If the coordinates are in the range 0-10  
> for the entire sketch then it is not possible to zoom in very far in  
> the therion editor to edit the sketch, even if you scale the sketch  
> in therion by setting survey points. If the coordinates are in the  
> range 0-5000 for the entire sketch then things look fine in the  
> sketch editor in therion, but the lox files get created so that when  
> you open them in Loch the scale bars are set to show very large  
> areas (~250km) and the actual cave model is lost somewhere in this  
> massive bounding box. I have found that coordinates in the range  
> 0-500 seem to work best. So scale the entire sketch in inkscape in  
> that coordinate range before converting to th2.

I'll have look at that, thanks.

Cheers,
   Thomas

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Footleg]

Thank you for writing this plug-in. I am finding it very useful for
importing survey drawings exported from other drawing programs into Therion.

Some issues I have encountered:
- Regardless of what I name my layers in inkscape, my scraps get names like
'layer1', 'layer2', etc. when I convert to th2 with the layers as scraps
option.
- If I select the line type to be 'survey' in the plug-in options, the th2
file created contains wall lines.
- When working with sketches which have not come from Therion in the first
place, you have to be careful what coordinate scale you export your inkscape
drawing from. If the coordinates are in the range 0-10 for the entire sketch
then it is not possible to zoom in very far in the therion editor to edit
the sketch, even if you scale the sketch in therion by setting survey
points. If the coordinates are in the range 0-5000 for the entire sketch
then things look fine in the sketch editor in therion, but the lox files get
created so that when you open them in Loch the scale bars are set to show
very large areas (~250km) and the actual cave model is lost somewhere in
this massive bounding box. I have found that coordinates in the range 0-500
seem to work best. So scale the entire sketch in inkscape in that coordinate
range before converting to th2.

Footleg

On 7 March 2011 19:58, Thomas Holder  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I now wrote a short tutorial for the Inkscape import/export plugins on the
> therion wiki:
>
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscapeplugins
>
> It does not cover general usage of Inkscape, so you should get familiar
> with it befor trying to edit therion th2 files.
>
> marco corvi wrote, On 02/15/11 11:11:
>
>  some feedbacks ...
>> inkscape 0.48.0 r9654 (built yesterday)
>>
>> [1] did not get any layer but the one with the drawing.
>> opened the "layer panel" and it shows only "Layer 1"
>> how does one get to the hidden layers (point types and background
>> images) ?
>>
>
> Layers dialog from "Layer > Layers..." menu.
>
>
>  [2] drawing points as circles works, but then it's like in xtherion:
>> no visual clue about the point type.
>>
>
> but when reloading the saved file, most point will have a visual symbol.
>
>
>  [3] points with orientation (air-draught etc) are displayed correctly
>> when imported. how does one rotate a point ?
>>
>
> click twice (not double click, but with a short pause), then the handles
> change to rotation handles.
>
>
>  [3b] in particular labels can be turned 90 degrees at a time, but this
>> does not affect the orientation in the export
>>
>
> do you mean vertical text? There is no vertical text concept in therion, so
> it cannot be saved to th2 files. If you mean 90° rotation, this should
> indeed be exported!
>
>
>  [4] i loaded a th2 file with two scraps, and i got back a file
>> with one scrap (one layer - one scrap)
>>
>
> Have you selected "All Layers" and checked "Layers as Scraps" on export
> dialog?
>
>
>  [5] "Extensions > Therion > Set..." works
>>
>> [6] a tutorial on the wiki will be great. really, do it!
>>
>
> Cheers,
>  Thomas
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
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[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

Hi,

I now wrote a short tutorial for the Inkscape import/export plugins on 
the therion wiki:

http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscapeplugins

It does not cover general usage of Inkscape, so you should get familiar 
with it befor trying to edit therion th2 files.

marco corvi wrote, On 02/15/11 11:11:
> some feedbacks ...
> inkscape 0.48.0 r9654 (built yesterday)
> 
> [1] did not get any layer but the one with the drawing.
> opened the "layer panel" and it shows only "Layer 1"
> how does one get to the hidden layers (point types and background
> images) ?

Layers dialog from "Layer > Layers..." menu.

> [2] drawing points as circles works, but then it's like in xtherion:
> no visual clue about the point type.

but when reloading the saved file, most point will have a visual symbol.

> [3] points with orientation (air-draught etc) are displayed correctly
> when imported. how does one rotate a point ?

click twice (not double click, but with a short pause), then the handles 
change to rotation handles.

> [3b] in particular labels can be turned 90 degrees at a time, 
> but this does not affect the orientation in the export

do you mean vertical text? There is no vertical text concept in therion, 
so it cannot be saved to th2 files. If you mean 90° rotation, this 
should indeed be exported!

> [4] i loaded a th2 file with two scraps, and i got back a file
> with one scrap (one layer - one scrap)

Have you selected "All Layers" and checked "Layers as Scraps" on export 
dialog?

> [5] "Extensions > Therion > Set..." works
> 
> [6] a tutorial on the wiki will be great. 
> really, do it!

Cheers,
   Thomas

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

Hi Andrew,

thanks very much, of course this helps! So far this inkscape stuff is 
only tested with my biased way of creating therion input files.

About the background images:

1) there is no support for xvi :-(
2) my parser for this xth_me_image_insert line is still not perfect, but 
that can be fixed.

> See screen shot, the first 4 are in folders, the rest are just a long 
> list. My thinking was on the lines of on expedition without internet, if 
> all the files where in a folder, I could pass them on to someone else, 
> very unimportant

All *.inx files cannot be put in subfolders, *.py files could, but I 
think there is not much benefit for it. All my files start with th2*, so 
it's still quite easy to grab them and copy to another computer.

Cheers,
   Thomas

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Andrew Atkinson]

On 14/02/11 16:58, Thomas Holder wrote:
> Andrew Atkinson wrote, On 02/14/11 17:05:
>> I know little about Inkscape, but got the basics.
>> Using Inkscape 0.47 r22583 Ubuntu 10.04
>>
>> So loaded up the add in, one question that does not affect its use,
>> but might be important for update. All my others are in folders, but
>> this just goes in as is (I did try it in a folder but it did not work.)
>
> what is in folders, the plugin files?

See screen shot, the first 4 are in folders, the rest are just a long 
list. My thinking was on the lines of on expedition without internet, if 
all the files where in a folder, I could pass them on to someone else, 
very unimportant
>
>> It imported my th2 files fine, but with no background image, not sure
>> if it was meant to. All the ones I tried had been from a PocketTopo
>> import.
>
> there is a hidden layer that should show your background image. Open the
> layers panel and un-hide it there.

Okay found the hidden layer, and switch on the legend, which is fine, 
but cannot get the background to show, relevant files attached 
(DieselDuck), hope it helps, could be just my poor use of inkscape, 
there are 2 background images in this file. Tied another, this time 
switching the image on gives a Linked image not found box
>
>> First impressions are impressive, all the wall types shown, if
>> anything a little fine on the detail, sometimes had to zoom in a bit
>> to tell the difference.
>>
>> Then tried a new file, did not bother with a background image, just
>> played, added walls and even different subtype of walls, okay they all
>> came up the same but when saved and then reloaded they came out fine.
>
> Annotation is not so elegant but can be done for selected elements from
> the menu with "Extensions > Therion > Set...". So you can change line
> type, for example draw a couple of rocks, select them all and then
> annotate as "line rock-border".

Can get this to work for most (all?) things apart from wall subtypes, I 
am entering it through Extensions-Therion-Set Line type.
However, saving it and reloading it and the subtype works.
>

>
> you can change the subtype of the complete line by adding the -subtype
> option to the label. But changing the subtype within the line at a
> certain point is not supported since this concept does not exist in
> Inkscape. If you would allow the user to edit such a line, this
> information would be lost.

I do not tend to change subtype along a line.
>

>
> Text along line labels and areas are preserved on import/export, but
> cannot be edited on the inkscape canvas, sorry.

Such is life, I'm always hopeful
>
> Acutally, I intend to leave it as is for now. Of course any reasonable
> suggestion for improvement I will consider, that's why I asked for
> feedback :)

Hope this helps, and not sending you in the wrong direction, I must have 
now got the vast experience of 1 hour using Inkscape.

Andrew
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[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

marco corvi wrote, On 02/14/11 16:41:
> that's interesting indeed.
> 
> import works.
> 
> line drawing is ok, and the line appears in the export with type "wall",
> but when i change the label it's no longer exported.

If you change the label, it must be a valid therion annotation, like:

line wall -outline in
line rock-border
line contour -clip off

> i do not know anything about inkscape:
> how to draw points ?

this is a bit tricky. There is a layer "Symbol Legend" with all known 
therion points on the top of the page, it is hidden by default but can 
be made visible with the layers panel. Copy and paste from there into 
the correct layer that represents your scrap (the Symbol Legend layer is 
not exported). Furthermore, you could draw a circle and annotate it with 
something like:

point stalactite

For drawing text labels, just draw text! You can also annotate text with

point station-name
point altitude
point height

You'll get how it works if you import an existing therion drawing and 
see how it gets displayed and annotated in inkscape.

> and areas ?

there is no concept for drawing areas, sorry.

I plan to make a tutorial and put it on the wiki, but haven't done so far.

Cheers,
   Thomas

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[marco corvi]

On Sun, 2011-02-13 at 15:18 +0100, Thomas Holder wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I wrote import and export plugins for Inkscape to edit th2-files. This 
> is particular useful to remaster existing therion-drawings with the 
> convenience of a quite modern vector-graphics application. The therion 
> line/point type annotation is stored in the object label (Object 
> Properties Dialog) and can also be altered with dialogs from "Extensions 
>  > Therion > Set..." menus.
> 
> Download:
> http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-latest.zip
> 
> Unsupported is the editing of lines with line point options, since there 
> is no concept in SVG for this. Such lines will be marked as read-only on 
> import.
> 
> I will be happy for any feedback (if it works, if you find it useful).
> 
that's interesting indeed.

import works.

line drawing is ok, and the line appears in the export with type "wall",
but when i change the label it's no longer exported.

i do not know anything about inkscape:
how to draw points ?
and areas ?

marco

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Andrew Atkinson]

I know little about Inkscape, but got the basics.
Using Inkscape  0.47 r22583  Ubuntu 10.04

So loaded up the add in, one question that does not affect its use, but 
might be important for update. All my others are in folders, but this 
just goes in as is (I did try it in a folder but it did not work.)

It imported my th2 files fine, but with no background image, not sure if 
it was meant to. All the ones I tried had been from a PocketTopo import.

First impressions are impressive, all the wall types shown, if anything 
a little fine on the detail, sometimes had to zoom in a bit to tell the 
difference.

Then tried a new file, did not bother with a background image, just 
played, added walls and even different subtype of walls, okay they all 
came up the same but when saved and then reloaded they came out fine.

Couple of comments, I try to connect node points together when attaching 
a pit to a wall, etc. I know it is not needed in Therion, as clip sorts 
it out, but it works for me, but I could not do this on Inkscape.
On a loaded file you cannot change the wall subtype, which is how you 
said, however I am not sure if this is the right behaviour. As I could 
tell from my new file I could add in different subtypes of wall as new, 
so why not give the option of changing them. When opening ask if you 
want read only or changeable. Okay it would not change on the display 
until next reloaded, but currently I would have to change it in Xtherion 
or an editor..

Also on loading it found a few errors

skipped: #point
skipped: #point
warning: empty line
warning: empty line

An indication of which line would be good, or better still an option to 
correct.

Maybe lots of this is planned. It is very impressive, I can see it in 
the future helping lots of people to be able to use Therion in the 
future. It would be good to have an idea where you intend to go with it, 
I have lots of questions, things like viewing at different scale 
outputs, and seeing the text along a line labels, then there are Areas.

Wonderful stuff it looks like I will be teaching myself Inkscape!

Andrew



On 14/02/11 15:41, marco corvi wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-02-13 at 15:18 +0100, Thomas Holder wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I wrote import and export plugins for Inkscape to edit th2-files. This
>> is particular useful to remaster existing therion-drawings with the
>> convenience of a quite modern vector-graphics application. The therion
>> line/point type annotation is stored in the object label (Object
>> Properties Dialog) and can also be altered with dialogs from "Extensions
>>   >  Therion>  Set..." menus.
>>
>> Download:
>> http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-latest.zip
>>
>> Unsupported is the editing of lines with line point options, since there
>> is no concept in SVG for this. Such lines will be marked as read-only on
>> import.
>>
>> I will be happy for any feedback (if it works, if you find it useful).
>>
> that's interesting indeed.
>
> import works.
>
> line drawing is ok, and the line appears in the export with type "wall",
> but when i change the label it's no longer exported.
>
> i do not know anything about inkscape:
> how to draw points ?
> and areas ?
>
> marco
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>

[Therion] Inkscape import/export plugins

[Thomas Holder]

Hi all,

I wrote import and export plugins for Inkscape to edit th2-files. This 
is particular useful to remaster existing therion-drawings with the 
convenience of a quite modern vector-graphics application. The therion 
line/point type annotation is stored in the object label (Object 
Properties Dialog) and can also be altered with dialogs from "Extensions 
 > Therion > Set..." menus.

Download:
http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-latest.zip

Unsupported is the editing of lines with line point options, since there 
is no concept in SVG for this. Such lines will be marked as read-only on 
import.

I will be happy for any feedback (if it works, if you find it useful).

Cheers,
   Thomas

Note: An earlier version of the export plugin has already been published 
on the therion wiki at 
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscape but is obsolete with 
the new import/export plugin set.