[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[V]

NoteSelf (it is a separate version of TW) should help with both problems. 
It uses IndexedDB (PouchDB) in browser and CouchDB for syncing between 
devices. So:

   1. File won't become larger, loading won't become slower
   2. Syncing with different tabs should be OK

четверг, 29 октября 2020 г. в 21:14:11 UTC+3, IvanPsy: 

> Greetings,
>
> I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian 
> and similar), so I have some questions.
> My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
>
> - How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when 
> opening it?
> I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.
> My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing 
> other troubles.
>
> - TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
> What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to 
> Flash)?
> Is it a realistic scenario?
> I'm always looking for an exit plan.
> And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other 
> formats) files?
>
> - Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same 
> time without having the two versions conflict each other?
> I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many 
> windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.
> How about TiddlyWiki?
>
> Thank you!
>

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[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[TiddlyTweeter]

Keelan Cook wrote:
>
>
> I believe your notes are more future-proof in a TiddlyWiki than they are 
> in most other note-taking tools. It's been mentioned in other comments so 
> far, but an HTML file is essentially a text file than can be human readable 
> even if the unthinkable happened and there was a wholesale shift away from 
> browsers reading HTML to render websites. Futhermore, it really seems 
> unthinkable for HTML and browsers that read it to go away. From my limited 
> understanding they appear to be the backbone of the (frontend of the) 
> internet. I use a Chromebook personally and more and more it seems 
> computers are really just gateways to connect us to the internet to do 
> everything. So, I think we're safe with HTML documents for a very long time.


This is a VERY important issue if you are concerned LONG TERM. The history 
of tech on-net is *littered with casualties.*

 TW is a very good BEST BET where you need TEXT (HTML), BEAUTY (CSS) and 
INTELLIGENCE (JavaScript) forever. 
All three standards are here to stay and are backwards compatible. I've 
tested with age-old TW they work.

To give an example: On a 2014 Android phone the BROWSER is totally kaput, 
but the TW from then is absolutely FINE.

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[Keelan Cook]

Ivan, 

It sounds like we're in a very similar boat. I work in academics, and I've 
recently started using TiddlyWiki for its strengths in networked thought 
and open source nature. I know very little about coding, so I've had many 
of the same questions you're asking. Currently, I'm using a single-file 
wiki (not a node version with individual files), and it's working very well 
for me at this point.

My primary use case is academic research. In specific collecting notes on 
research and then connecting and compiling those notes in a way that allows 
me to outline, draft, and eventually write up new scholarship. That means 
tons of notes and specifically a mountain of PDFs. I have found TiddlyWiki 
to be excellent at connecting, compiling, outlining, and even drafting. I 
then export my finished articles to another tool for printing or publishing.

I believe your notes are more future-proof in a TiddlyWiki than they are in 
most other note-taking tools. It's been mentioned in other comments so far, 
but an HTML file is essentially a text file than can be human readable even 
if the unthinkable happened and there was a wholesale shift away from 
browsers reading HTML to render websites. Futhermore, it really seems 
unthinkable for HTML and browsers that read it to go away. From my limited 
understanding they appear to be the backbone of the (frontend of the) 
internet. I use a Chromebook personally and more and more it seems 
computers are really just gateways to connect us to the internet to do 
everything. So, I think we're safe with HTML documents for a very long time.

As for PDFs, this is a real concern you need to consider. It's been said 
above already, but you don't want to store the PDFs in the wiki itself. I 
have several thousand notes in my single-file wiki currently, and it runs 
just fine. But, none of those notes are embedded images and files, and I 
did that on purpose based on the wise counsel of this group. Instead, I've 
chosen to use a reference manager to house my PDF files and link to them or 
reference them by citation. It works well for me, and it keeps the wiki 
running smooth. I use Paperpile  as my reference 
manager. It indexes all of my PDF articles and any books or other sources I 
use in my research. It also has it's own PDF annotation tools, so I read 
and annotate my PDFs in Paperpile and then export any notes I want to make 
more "permanent" in my research to TiddlyWiki. I upload the PDF to 
Paperpile and it stores it in my Google Drive, so I still maintain control 
of the actual file. This also creates a shareable link to the PDF itself. 
You can link to the file that way in TiddlyWiki.

In addition, I use two plugins that facilitate this process. The first is 
the bibtex plugin you can find in the main plugin library for TiddlyWiki. 
It allows you to export a bibtex (bibliography file) from your reference 
manager and upload it to TiddlyWiki in a way that parses out all of the 
sources and creates a reference tiddler for every book or article. Then, I 
use the refnotes plugin  to easily cite 
these sources in my other notes. The refnotes plugin works in the 
background to compile a works cited for projects I'm drafting and allows me 
to easily cite references on my notes so I know where they originated. 

Paperpile is not the only reference manager out there. Zotero 
 and Mendeley  are 
probably the two most popular, and they share most of this functionality I 
just mentioned. But I really like the combined ability of using a good 
reference manager with the power of TiddlyWiki.

Hope that helps you think through options some. I've spent the better part 
of this year thinking through all of this myself, and this is where I 
landed.

Good luck!
On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 5:23:33 PM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:

> Ivan,
>
> Welcome to the infinite universe of TiddlyWiki.
>
> I will just add to the above comments, that out of the box tiddlywiki 
> single file is enough for most users however if you add a lot of imbedded 
> files and media it all must load into memory. 
> If you have a lot to add and you know it will get big, use some of the 
> recommended approaches, however it is easy to migrate your data to a new 
> wiki later so I recommend just getting started and see if the other aspects 
> meet with your needs (it should, as tiddlywiki is a platform and very 
> flexible). 
>
> Please provide a link to obsidian or some features so we can respond.
>
> For TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same the best answer is 
> Bob and Bobexe  for your 
> local computer or the Local Area Network with a team, make sure you 
> configure backups.
>
> It is wise to consider your exit strategy, in fact that was a key reason I 
> moved to tiddlywiki, Tiddlywiki is based on technologies which are less 
> likely to fade in tim

[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[TW Tones]

Ivan,

Welcome to the infinite universe of TiddlyWiki.

I will just add to the above comments, that out of the box tiddlywiki 
single file is enough for most users however if you add a lot of imbedded 
files and media it all must load into memory. 
If you have a lot to add and you know it will get big, use some of the 
recommended approaches, however it is easy to migrate your data to a new 
wiki later so I recommend just getting started and see if the other aspects 
meet with your needs (it should, as tiddlywiki is a platform and very 
flexible). 

Please provide a link to obsidian or some features so we can respond.

For TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same the best answer is Bob 
and Bobexe  for your local 
computer or the Local Area Network with a team, make sure you configure 
backups.

It is wise to consider your exit strategy, in fact that was a key reason I 
moved to tiddlywiki, Tiddlywiki is based on technologies which are less 
likely to fade in time than most solutions, at one point we had issues with 
savers and people obtained a compatible older version of browsers as 
portable apps and they were fine for a few more years, some people were so 
happy with this strategic solution they did not realise we had moved on, I 
now use timimi a lot to open and save wikis from my files on my local 
computer. Another trick is to build your own links wiki which will always 
try and open the one wiki in a named tab eg (HTML link) target="wikiname" 
so you do not end up with multiple instances open.

I also find dividing content between for purpose wikis one way to avoid 
large wikis, there is plenty of interwiki tools even indexing and search 
solutions.

The key question you may answer is why text files? because there are a lot 
of different answers to that question. I use a lot of text but I am happy 
to have it in tiddlers and not independent files.

Regards
Tones

On Friday, 30 October 2020 05:14:11 UTC+11, IvanPsy wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian 
> and similar), so I have some questions.
> My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
>
> - How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when 
> opening it?
> I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.
> My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing 
> other troubles.
>
> - TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
> What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to 
> Flash)?
> Is it a realistic scenario?
> I'm always looking for an exit plan.
> And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other 
> formats) files?
>
> - Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same 
> time without having the two versions conflict each other?
> I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many 
> windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.
> How about TiddlyWiki?
>
> Thank you!
>

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[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[hazel morris]

I can answer some of these questions: html isnt going to go out of fashion 
soon, it is the code of every website no matter what browser runs it. I 
would say it is not a realistic scenario!
You can export tiddlers to txt, I am sure there is a plugin for this.
Yes you can have multiple tiddlywikis open at the same time.
Finally, I am not sure how much you can put into tiddlywiki before it slows 
down. individual tiddlers with only writing have a very small file size, 
but if you add images and pdfs the size will get much bigger very fast.
I am no expert myself, hopefully someone else can confirm.

Have a nice day,
H

On Thursday, 29 October 2020 at 18:14:11 UTC IvanPsy wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian 
> and similar), so I have some questions.
> My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
>
> - How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when 
> opening it?
> I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.
> My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing 
> other troubles.
>
> - TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
> What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to 
> Flash)?
> Is it a realistic scenario?
> I'm always looking for an exit plan.
> And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other 
> formats) files?
>
> - Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same 
> time without having the two versions conflict each other?
> I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many 
> windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.
> How about TiddlyWiki?
>
> Thank you!
>

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[tw5] Re: Concerns from a non-tech newbie

[PMario]

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 7:14:11 PM UTC+1, IvanPsy wrote:
>
> Greetings,


Hi Ivan,
 

> I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian 
> and similar), so I have some questions.
> My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
>

Welcome!
 

> - How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when 
> opening it?
> I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.
> My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing 
> other troubles.
>

You should definitely keep the PDFs and big images outside of the wiki. 
It's possible to "link" to external resources like PDFs. A tiddler has a 
field named: _cannonical_uri to store the resource URL. 

eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#How%20to%20embed%20PDF%20and%20other%20documents

 

> - TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
>

JavaScript is something completely different to Java. 
 

> What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to 
> Flash)?
>

HTML is "basically" text. It's always possible to open the file in a normal 
text editor and extract the content. It will be much work, but it is 
possible. 

Additionally TW has the possibility to export everything in different 
formats. One of them is CSV Comma-Separated-Values. Which can also be used 
to import stuff. 
 

> Is it a realistic scenario?
>

I think browsers will be more important in the future, than the other way 
around.
 

> I'm always looking for an exit plan.
>

That's a good strategy!

And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other 
> formats) files?
>

See above. We can export / import as CSV, JSON and text based

- Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same time 
> without having the two versions conflict each other?
>

If you use a "file-based" saver, they will conflict each other. If you use 
a "server-based" solution they will be synced. See: BOB-server It's 
available for several different OSes.

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-BobEXE
 

> I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many 
> windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.
> How about TiddlyWiki?
>

Hope that helps, to get an overview. 

have fun!
mario

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