[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

@TonyM

I'll provide some layouts and layout ideas on the hammerwidgets page at 
some point
My goal is to gather ideas for a good layout - I don't want to build one 
after the other but one that's really useable

Right now, I want to make it work reliably that users can position the 
content within a tiddler by dragging ... that would make many css 
acrobatics (float right/ align where-I-want ... ) unnecessary and make 
tiddler-layout-ing easier
I want to make those positioned elements also keep their position when 
tiddlers get printed.

I'm looking for use-cases like this where the widgets really help altering 
the workflow

all the best,
BurningTreeC

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[TonyM]

BurningTreeC

Thanks for your response. It shows the widgets are much simpler than I 
thought. And while some example layouts will be helpful they now seem less 
important.
Regards
Tony

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:38:30 PM UTC+10, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> BurningTreeC
>>
>> If your open to ideas I just want to say I have not yet gone down the 
>> "touch interface" rabbit hole yet but I am impressed by the progress. Since 
>> it looks like we can make Mobile first solutions can I ask you try and 
>> bundle complete layouts?
>>
>
>  
>
>> My focus is currently on information tools and they often need the 
>> desktop but I know many will depend on a good mobile layout. I will be 
>> publishing a lot to the community over the coming months as I have climbed 
>> over the hump of my learning curve. It would be great if such layouts were 
>> packaged so I could deliver them in mobile first. 
>>
>
> Hi Tony, this shouldn't be reduced to touch-only or mobile-first. Except 
> the pinch widget all widget work with the mouse, too - the same way as they 
> work with a touch screen and fingers.
>
> Bundling complete layouts is a big task. I'm looking for a suitable layout 
> for desktop use, that can be used for mobile, too - using the dynaview 
> plugin that enables to see if the screen is big or small. 
>
> I'm thinking about ONE layout first - I've played around with various 
> layouts and that's the point where I'm open for ideas: finding a suitable 
> layout.
> A layout where the strengths of the hammer widgets can be used to alter 
> the editing, viewing and presenting experience.
>
> I hope that users can see that these layouts are just wikitext and css - 
> that means if they can create a macro that filters tiddlers and they can 
> style a list, they can also create layouts.
> I cannot create every possible layout a user could want by myself. I'm 
> missing the time for that.
>  
>
>>
>> I do not underestimate the effort here however I believe we need one last 
>> push here to ensure tiddlywiki is relevant in todays mobile world.
>>
>> One of my projects is to provide a tool to generate View and Edit 
>> Templates parallel to the default ones so you can mess with them and retain 
>> transportable layouts, also alter the toolbar buttons for this alternate 
>> view. I would be happy to share this work if anyone is going to use it.
>>
>
>  What I believe is that we could replace toolbar buttons with gestures in 
> certain layouts/use-cases
>
> The swipe widget for example creates a div than can have 4 different 
> actions (swipe up/left/right/down on the div) - that's one "button" instead 
> of 4 and you can swipe with your mouse or your finger:
>
> <$swipe class="tc-swipe-me" leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" 
> upactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" rightactions="""
> <$action-dosomething/>""" downactions="""<$action-dosomething/>"""/>
>
> The widget creates a div (can also be a different tag if you add 
> tag="span") with class "tc-swipe-me" and you position it by css and give it 
> a height and width. Or you build the swipe widget around content like:
>
> <$swipe leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" upactions="""
> <$action-dosomething/>""" rightactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" 
> downactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""">
> This content is swipeable and dispatches different actions if swiping 
> up/left/right/down
> 
>
> The tap, swipe and press widgets are pretty easy, they all work the same 
> and they only recognize the gesture on the created element and dispatch the 
> given action(s)
> The pan widget is the most versatile for layouts because it produces 
> pointer coordinates in a state tiddler and they can be used very 
> creativelly like:
>
> x/y - pads
> moving elements like tiddler content (see this tiddler: 
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Reorder%20Tiddler%20Content)
> creating drag-and-drop layouts
> drag-resizing tiddlers, sidebars
> showing/hiding panels
> ...
>
> The pinch widget is not very complex but stores the scale and rotation 
> values in a state tiddler. They can be used to create:
>
> rotatable stuff like knobs
> zoomable stuff
>
>
> I've already built all of the things mentioned trying to figure out what 
> works best in the environment they're interacting with
> So now I'd like to put those findings into a layout - and for that I'm 
> open for ideas
>
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
> All the best, Simon
>  
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[Enneco Gotzon]

Amazing knowledge… Amazing guys…

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:38 AM, BurningTreeC 
wrote:

> BurningTreeC
>>
>> If your open to ideas I just want to say I have not yet gone down the
>> "touch interface" rabbit hole yet but I am impressed by the progress. Since
>> it looks like we can make Mobile first solutions can I ask you try and
>> bundle complete layouts?
>>
>
>
>
>> My focus is currently on information tools and they often need the
>> desktop but I know many will depend on a good mobile layout. I will be
>> publishing a lot to the community over the coming months as I have climbed
>> over the hump of my learning curve. It would be great if such layouts were
>> packaged so I could deliver them in mobile first.
>>
>
> Hi Tony, this shouldn't be reduced to touch-only or mobile-first. Except
> the pinch widget all widget work with the mouse, too - the same way as they
> work with a touch screen and fingers.
>
> Bundling complete layouts is a big task. I'm looking for a suitable layout
> for desktop use, that can be used for mobile, too - using the dynaview
> plugin that enables to see if the screen is big or small.
>
> I'm thinking about ONE layout first - I've played around with various
> layouts and that's the point where I'm open for ideas: finding a suitable
> layout.
> A layout where the strengths of the hammer widgets can be used to alter
> the editing, viewing and presenting experience.
>
> I hope that users can see that these layouts are just wikitext and css -
> that means if they can create a macro that filters tiddlers and they can
> style a list, they can also create layouts.
> I cannot create every possible layout a user could want by myself. I'm
> missing the time for that.
>
>
>>
>> I do not underestimate the effort here however I believe we need one last
>> push here to ensure tiddlywiki is relevant in todays mobile world.
>>
>> One of my projects is to provide a tool to generate View and Edit
>> Templates parallel to the default ones so you can mess with them and retain
>> transportable layouts, also alter the toolbar buttons for this alternate
>> view. I would be happy to share this work if anyone is going to use it.
>>
>
>  What I believe is that we could replace toolbar buttons with gestures in
> certain layouts/use-cases
>
> The swipe widget for example creates a div than can have 4 different
> actions (swipe up/left/right/down on the div) - that's one "button" instead
> of 4 and you can swipe with your mouse or your finger:
>
> <$swipe class="tc-swipe-me" leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>"""
> upactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" rightactions="""<$action-
> dosomething/>""" downactions="""<$action-dosomething/>"""/>
>
> The widget creates a div (can also be a different tag if you add
> tag="span") with class "tc-swipe-me" and you position it by css and give it
> a height and width. Or you build the swipe widget around content like:
>
> <$swipe leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" upactions="""<$action-
> dosomething/>""" rightactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" downactions="""
> <$action-dosomething/>""">
> This content is swipeable and dispatches different actions if swiping
> up/left/right/down
> 
>
> The tap, swipe and press widgets are pretty easy, they all work the same
> and they only recognize the gesture on the created element and dispatch the
> given action(s)
> The pan widget is the most versatile for layouts because it produces
> pointer coordinates in a state tiddler and they can be used very
> creativelly like:
>
> x/y - pads
> moving elements like tiddler content (see this tiddler:
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Reorder%20Tiddler%20Content)
> creating drag-and-drop layouts
> drag-resizing tiddlers, sidebars
> showing/hiding panels
> ...
>
> The pinch widget is not very complex but stores the scale and rotation
> values in a state tiddler. They can be used to create:
>
> rotatable stuff like knobs
> zoomable stuff
>
>
> I've already built all of the things mentioned trying to figure out what
> works best in the environment they're interacting with
> So now I'd like to put those findings into a layout - and for that I'm
> open for ideas
>
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
> All the best, Simon
>
>
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> 
> .
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

>
> BurningTreeC
>
> If your open to ideas I just want to say I have not yet gone down the 
> "touch interface" rabbit hole yet but I am impressed by the progress. Since 
> it looks like we can make Mobile first solutions can I ask you try and 
> bundle complete layouts?
>

 

> My focus is currently on information tools and they often need the desktop 
> but I know many will depend on a good mobile layout. I will be publishing a 
> lot to the community over the coming months as I have climbed over the hump 
> of my learning curve. It would be great if such layouts were packaged so I 
> could deliver them in mobile first. 
>

Hi Tony, this shouldn't be reduced to touch-only or mobile-first. Except 
the pinch widget all widget work with the mouse, too - the same way as they 
work with a touch screen and fingers.

Bundling complete layouts is a big task. I'm looking for a suitable layout 
for desktop use, that can be used for mobile, too - using the dynaview 
plugin that enables to see if the screen is big or small. 

I'm thinking about ONE layout first - I've played around with various 
layouts and that's the point where I'm open for ideas: finding a suitable 
layout.
A layout where the strengths of the hammer widgets can be used to alter the 
editing, viewing and presenting experience.

I hope that users can see that these layouts are just wikitext and css - 
that means if they can create a macro that filters tiddlers and they can 
style a list, they can also create layouts.
I cannot create every possible layout a user could want by myself. I'm 
missing the time for that.
 

>
> I do not underestimate the effort here however I believe we need one last 
> push here to ensure tiddlywiki is relevant in todays mobile world.
>
> One of my projects is to provide a tool to generate View and Edit 
> Templates parallel to the default ones so you can mess with them and retain 
> transportable layouts, also alter the toolbar buttons for this alternate 
> view. I would be happy to share this work if anyone is going to use it.
>

 What I believe is that we could replace toolbar buttons with gestures in 
certain layouts/use-cases

The swipe widget for example creates a div than can have 4 different 
actions (swipe up/left/right/down on the div) - that's one "button" instead 
of 4 and you can swipe with your mouse or your finger:

<$swipe class="tc-swipe-me" leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" 
upactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" rightactions="""
<$action-dosomething/>""" downactions="""<$action-dosomething/>"""/>

The widget creates a div (can also be a different tag if you add 
tag="span") with class "tc-swipe-me" and you position it by css and give it 
a height and width. Or you build the swipe widget around content like:

<$swipe leftactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" upactions="""
<$action-dosomething/>""" rightactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""" 
downactions="""<$action-dosomething/>""">
This content is swipeable and dispatches different actions if swiping 
up/left/right/down


The tap, swipe and press widgets are pretty easy, they all work the same 
and they only recognize the gesture on the created element and dispatch the 
given action(s)
The pan widget is the most versatile for layouts because it produces 
pointer coordinates in a state tiddler and they can be used very 
creativelly like:

x/y - pads
moving elements like tiddler content (see this 
tiddler: http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Reorder%20Tiddler%20Content)
creating drag-and-drop layouts
drag-resizing tiddlers, sidebars
showing/hiding panels
...

The pinch widget is not very complex but stores the scale and rotation 
values in a state tiddler. They can be used to create:

rotatable stuff like knobs
zoomable stuff


I've already built all of the things mentioned trying to figure out what 
works best in the environment they're interacting with
So now I'd like to put those findings into a layout - and for that I'm open 
for ideas

>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
All the best, Simon
 

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[TonyM]

BurningTreeC

If your open to ideas I just want to say I have not yet gone down the 
"touch interface" rabbit hole yet but I am impressed by the progress. Since 
it looks like we can make Mobile first solutions can I ask you try and 
bundle complete layouts?

My focus is currently on information tools and they often need the desktop 
but I know many will depend on a good mobile layout. I will be publishing a 
lot to the community over the coming months as I have climbed over the hump 
of my learning curve. It would be great if such layouts were packaged so I 
could deliver them in mobile first.

I do not underestimate the effort here however I believe we need one last 
push here to ensure tiddlywiki is relevant in todays mobile world.

One of my projects is to provide a tool to generate View and Edit Templates 
parallel to the default ones so you can mess with them and retain 
transportable layouts, also alter the toolbar buttons for this alternate 
view. I would be happy to share this work if anyone is going to use it.

Regards
Tony


On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:46 PM UTC+10, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> BurningTreeC,
>>
>> To enter the MAC world my cheapskate solution was a mac-mini 
>>
>> Oddly I even had family offer to buy it when I said I could help them 
>> with their MACs if I had it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> Haha Tony, I think I'll try your suggestion with my family too ... 
>
> @Jan ...
> I was thinking that, too ... I mean the "canvas" part or having an area 
> where tiddlers can be pinned and leaving the story river as it is
> What I'm thinking right now is to use the idea of the panflex layout 
> http://panflex.tiddlyspot.com but ditch the top and bottom panels
> I think it can be done so that one can drag from the left or right and 
> move such an additional area in ... maybe multiple ones like pages of a book
> Each one of that pages can have different content or different styling or 
> view and edit templates, one of them can be the 
> floating-tiddlers-pin-drag-mode
>
> I'm open for ideas
>

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

>
> BurningTreeC,
>
> To enter the MAC world my cheapskate solution was a mac-mini 
>
> Oddly I even had family offer to buy it when I said I could help them with 
> their MACs if I had it.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> Haha Tony, I think I'll try your suggestion with my family too ... 

@Jan ...
I was thinking that, too ... I mean the "canvas" part or having an area 
where tiddlers can be pinned and leaving the story river as it is
What I'm thinking right now is to use the idea of the panflex layout 
http://panflex.tiddlyspot.com but ditch the top and bottom panels
I think it can be done so that one can drag from the left or right and move 
such an additional area in ... maybe multiple ones like pages of a book
Each one of that pages can have different content or different styling or 
view and edit templates, one of them can be the 
floating-tiddlers-pin-drag-mode

I'm open for ideas

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[TonyM]

BurningTreeC,

To enter the MAC world my cheapskate solution was a mac-mini 

Oddly I even had family offer to buy it when I said I could help them with 
their MACs if I had it.

Regards
Tony

On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 6:12:42 AM UTC+10, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hi Tiddlers,
>
> I've just put the latest hammer Widgets on 
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com
> They're bundled as a plugin - version 0.1.0
>
> I consider the widgets pretty stable now and performance has also improved
> What I don't have is testing experience on OSX, because of my empty wallet 
> :P - here I'm reliant on reports by the community, if you're interested to 
> give feedback
>
>
> I've put instructions on the page for adding the sidebar slider (which has 
> improved, too) to an existing wiki, they can be found at 
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Sidebar%20Slider%20-%20How%20To 
> 
> More macros and instructions will follow one by one as my ideas mature
>
> all the best, BurningTreeC
>

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[Jan]

Hi Simon,
I just realized what a big step you did with the *TiddlyBar. *
The possibility to arrange Tiddlers freely is great...but it is a little 
wierd to have tiddlers remembering this position in the storyriver when 
being opend.


It could be more useful to have sort of blank canvass where you can pin 
Tiddlers. Perhaps one could also store more than one canvass like in 
boards in https://ibnishak.github.io/Tesseract/projects/tekan/Tekan.html


For teaching for example this would be a great way to store and 
rearrange the Tiddlers for one lesson.


Because this would not have to be implemented into the pagetemplate it 
should be easier to be packaged as a plugin.

What do you think?

Yours Jan








Am 04.05.2018 um 23:46 schrieb BurningTreeC:


 the "bar" at the top of each tiddler, what is that called


let's call it TiddlyBar

how can I install that piece?


that's a bit more work than the sidebar-slider and I'm still not that 
happy with it to tell people they can get it...

I'm working on sorting out some z-indices, resizing and positioning issues

But the macro that does it all is in 
$:/plugins/BurningTree/hammerwidgets/macros (tiddler is not in the 
plugin but on the page)

The macro gets called in the $:/core/ui/PageTemplate
There's a template tiddler used to position each tiddler, it's 
$:/template/positioning/tiddler

And there's a stylesheet I think I called it $:/move-tiddler-styles
The dynaview plugin is needed for it to work

You see, this is complex and I may have forgotten something
When I have those things sorted out, I'll post an update
In the meantime, feel free to play with it but consider it unstable

BTC
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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

edited $:/core/ui/PageTemplate to $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

>
>  the "bar" at the top of each tiddler, what is that called
>

let's call it TiddlyBar

how can I install that piece?
>

that's a bit more work than the sidebar-slider and I'm still not that happy 
with it to tell people they can get it...
I'm working on sorting out some z-indices, resizing and positioning issues

But the macro that does it all is in 
$:/plugins/BurningTree/hammerwidgets/macros (tiddler is not in the plugin 
but on the page)
The macro gets called in the $:/core/ui/PageTemplate
There's a template tiddler used to position each tiddler, it's 
$:/template/positioning/tiddler
And there's a stylesheet I think I called it $:/move-tiddler-styles
The dynaview plugin is needed for it to work

You see, this is complex and I may have forgotten something
When I have those things sorted out, I'll post an update
In the meantime, feel free to play with it but consider it unstable

BTC

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[Diego Mesa]

you're right  I misspoke sorry! Just to be clear, the "bar" at the top of 
each tiddler, what is that called, and how can I install that piece? 
Thanks! 

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 4:22:34 PM UTC-5, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hey BurningTreeC,
>>
>> As usual, this work is *fantastic!!!* 
>>
>> As for the sidebar link I think you meant:
>>
>> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Sidebar%20Slider%20-%20How%20To
>>
>
> oops, edited, thanks !
>
>>
>> I'm very interested in that sidebar, but in a more limited way. I really 
>> only want tiddlers to be draggable within the story river, not necessarily 
>> removed out of the story river. Is there a way to *put it back *into the 
>> river once you've activated the top bar?
>>
>> Thanks for all your hard work!
>>
>> Diego
>>
>> the sidebar and the tiddler-dragging are two different things - the only 
> thing in common is that both use the pan widget to get the mouse coordinates
>
> on the hammerwidgets page if you drag tiddlers around there's one way to 
> put them back to the story river: drag them to the left of the page, the 
> free space between the story river and the screen edge, then release the 
> pointer. That snaps them back to the river.
> there are many ways this can be done, I'm still sorting out what works 
> best. On btc.twtemplate.tiddlyspot.com I use 4 clicks on the top tiddler 
> bar to snap them back - I'm playing around with this
> I consider the sidebar slider implementation as pretty solid - though I 
> want to limit it at the right side, too so that the sidebar doesn't become 
> more narrow than the configured sidebar width (350px default)
>
> What needs to be pointed out is that the hammer widgets only provide the 
> values of the gesture events and the pointer coordinates. Everything else 
> is done with wikitext with the help of different plugins - that means 
> everyone here can make some macros, I'm glad to help realizing ideas
>
> BTC
>

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[BurningTreeC]

>
> Hey BurningTreeC,
>
> As usual, this work is *fantastic!!!* 
>
> As for the sidebar link I think you meant:
>
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Sidebar%20Slider%20-%20How%20To
>

oops, edited, thanks !

>
> I'm very interested in that sidebar, but in a more limited way. I really 
> only want tiddlers to be draggable within the story river, not necessarily 
> removed out of the story river. Is there a way to *put it back *into the 
> river once you've activated the top bar?
>
> Thanks for all your hard work!
>
> Diego
>
> the sidebar and the tiddler-dragging are two different things - the only 
thing in common is that both use the pan widget to get the mouse coordinates

on the hammerwidgets page if you drag tiddlers around there's one way to 
put them back to the story river: drag them to the left of the page, the 
free space between the story river and the screen edge, then release the 
pointer. That snaps them back to the river.
there are many ways this can be done, I'm still sorting out what works 
best. On btc.twtemplate.tiddlyspot.com I use 4 clicks on the top tiddler 
bar to snap them back - I'm playing around with this
I consider the sidebar slider implementation as pretty solid - though I 
want to limit it at the right side, too so that the sidebar doesn't become 
more narrow than the configured sidebar width (350px default)

What needs to be pointed out is that the hammer widgets only provide the 
values of the gesture events and the pointer coordinates. Everything else 
is done with wikitext with the help of different plugins - that means 
everyone here can make some macros, I'm glad to help realizing ideas

BTC

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[tw5] Re: HammerWidgets Plugin - v0.1.0

[Diego Mesa]

Hey BurningTreeC,

As usual, this work is *fantastic!!!* 

As for the sidebar link I think you meant:

http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com/#Sidebar%20Slider%20-%20How%20To

I'm very interested in that sidebar, but in a more limited way. I really 
only want tiddlers to be draggable within the story river, not necessarily 
removed out of the story river. Is there a way to *put it back *into the 
river once you've activated the top bar?

Thanks for all your hard work!

Diego

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:12:42 PM UTC-5, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hi Tiddlers,
>
> I've just put the latest hammer Widgets on 
> http://hammerwidgets.tiddlyspot.com
> They're bundled as a plugin - version 0.1.0
>
> I consider the widgets pretty stable now and performance has also improved
> What I don't have is testing experience on OSX, because of my empty wallet 
> :P - here I'm reliant on reports by the community, if you're interested to 
> give feedback
>
>
> I've put instructions on the page for adding the sidebar slider (which has 
> improved, too) to an existing wiki, they can be found at 
> http://127.0.0.1:8090/#Sidebar%20Slider%20-%20How%20To
> More macros and instructions will follow one by one as my ideas mature
>
> all the best, BurningTreeC
>

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