[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-04-01 Thread Charlie Veniot 
I apologize to everybody for suggesting something that I thought would be 
beneficial, because I see now there is no way to put in what I was thinking 
without a complete overhaul of the documentation's architecture.

When I 
inspect https://tiddlywiki.com/#%24%3A%2Feditions%2Ftw5.com%2Foperator-macros, 
I realize the entire architecture of the thing is way too complex to 
change, and way too complex for me to ever consider helping out.  The 
process was already too complex for me, and now I see the architecture is 
not something I can handle.

So hats off to the folk who can wrap their brains around that, because I 
have neither the time nor the desire to put in the effort to figure that 
out.

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:59:46 AM UTC-3 PMario wrote:

> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 2:24:30 PM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, I know that.  I'm not asking for myself.  My point is that it should 
>> be easy for anybody to learn about all TiddlyWiki features involved in any 
>> example in the documentation. 
>>
>  
>
>> It is sad and disappointing that TiddlyWiki features are being used in 
>> the documentation, but the very usage not documented.  Lost opportunities.
>>
>
> OK. So a little bit of info for those, who want directly contribute to the 
> TW docs. 
>
> You are right. ... Documenting "the documentation" is an option, to show 
> users what's possible. I think the needs of the TW docs are very specific. 
> But still -- one can learn a lot from it. 
>
> We -- the core devs -- need help from the community if that "meta" content 
> should be there. 
>
> There is a lot of work to do for the reference documentation. Detailed 
> documentation "how the doc macros work" will add to the existing work that 
> "should be already done" ... 
>
> The TW documentation is a community effort and everyone is welcome to 
> create content and contribute it. 
>
> I did create a HowTo: 7 Steps to improve the tiddlywiki documentation 
> 
>  
> at "Talk TiddlyWiki". I also did create a video series, that shows how to 
> use it. The link to the videos can be found at the HowTo. 
>
> Discussion and feedback can happen at Talk 
> 
>  
> too.
>
> Saq, did create a "working prototype" Wiki that is online, can be modified 
> and can create contributions, that can directly be implemented into the 
> "living" docs at tiddlywiki.com. (Link in the HowTo)
>
> There is a Documentation Styleguide 
>  and an overview 
> about the Documentation macros 
>  at tiddlywiki.com .. (By 
> the way, I'm talking about those elements in the Video mentioned in the 
> HowTo.) 
>
> Contributions to the documentation can be successful, if users loosely 
> follow the style-guide. Nothing can be broken. It may take several 
> iterations till something can be accepted. 
>
> So everyone, that wants to help us to improve the docs, so we don't loose 
> opportunities can have a closer look at: 7 Steps to improve the 
> tiddlywiki documentation 
> 
>  
>
> Have fun!
> mario
>
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-04-01 Thread PMario 
On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 2:24:30 PM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes, I know that.  I'm not asking for myself.  My point is that it should 
> be easy for anybody to learn about all TiddlyWiki features involved in any 
> example in the documentation. 
>
 

> It is sad and disappointing that TiddlyWiki features are being used in the 
> documentation, but the very usage not documented.  Lost opportunities.
>

OK. So a little bit of info for those, who want directly contribute to the 
TW docs. 

You are right. ... Documenting "the documentation" is an option, to show 
users what's possible. I think the needs of the TW docs are very specific. 
But still -- one can learn a lot from it. 

We -- the core devs -- need help from the community if that "meta" content 
should be there. 

There is a lot of work to do for the reference documentation. Detailed 
documentation "how the doc macros work" will add to the existing work that 
"should be already done" ... 

The TW documentation is a community effort and everyone is welcome to 
create content and contribute it. 

I did create a HowTo: 7 Steps to improve the tiddlywiki documentation 

 
at "Talk TiddlyWiki". I also did create a video series, that shows how to 
use it. The link to the videos can be found at the HowTo. 

Discussion and feedback can happen at Talk 

 
too.

Saq, did create a "working prototype" Wiki that is online, can be modified 
and can create contributions, that can directly be implemented into the 
"living" docs at tiddlywiki.com. (Link in the HowTo)

There is a Documentation Styleguide 
 and an overview 
about the Documentation macros 
 at tiddlywiki.com .. (By 
the way, I'm talking about those elements in the Video mentioned in the 
HowTo.) 

Contributions to the documentation can be successful, if users loosely 
follow the style-guide. Nothing can be broken. It may take several 
iterations till something can be accepted. 

So everyone, that wants to help us to improve the docs, so we don't loose 
opportunities can have a closer look at: 7 Steps to improve the tiddlywiki 
documentation 

 

Have fun!
mario

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-04-01 Thread Charlie Veniot 
Yes, I know that.  I'm not asking for myself.  My point is that it should 
be easy for anybody to learn about all TiddlyWiki features involved in any 
example in the documentation.

Every example is a showcase for more than the one thing the example was 
created for.

Not a great idea of always putting users in the position of asking where 
things are all of the time.

Unless that is the point: we don't want the documentation to be so good 
that users don't have to always ask questions?

TiddlyWiki allows for mapping intertwingularity (i.e. making and showing 
all of the relationships to all things.)

It is sad and disappointing that TiddlyWiki features are being used in the 
documentation, but the very usage not documented.  Lost opportunities.

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 4:35:17 AM UTC-3 PMario wrote:

> Go to Advanced search. Search for ".operator" (without the quotes) and 
> have a look at the *system tab*. There are 2 results. 
> You basically can find absolutely everything in TW with advanced search, 
> if you switch tabs.
> -m
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-04-01 Thread Álvaro 
Yes, I agree. The click is better solution for learners.

El viernes, 1 de abril de 2022 a las 9:35:17 UTC+2, PMario escribió:

> Go to Advanced search. Search for ".operator" (without the quotes) and 
> have a look at the *system tab*. There are 2 results. 
> You basically can find absolutely everything in TW with advanced search, 
> if you switch tabs.
> -m
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-04-01 Thread PMario 
Go to Advanced search. Search for ".operator" (without the quotes) and have 
a look at the *system tab*. There are 2 results. 
You basically can find absolutely everything in TW with advanced search, if 
you switch tabs.
-m

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-03-31 Thread Charlie Veniot 
Proximity is king.  If I'm looking at it, it is good if there is something 
right there for me to click on.

It should be easy even for the first-time viewer of TiddlyWiki 
documentation to be able to click a button.

User-friendly access.  Bad idea to force folk into Advanced Search to 
figure out where something is.



On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:20:57 PM UTC-3 Álvaro wrote:

> It's true. It is difficult to find if we don't know how do it. In tab 
> System of AdvancedSearch, its tiddler can be found-> ` $:/editions/
> tw5.com/operator-macros `if you enter its name (`.operator-example`) 
>
> Maybe it could be together the other macros in the tiddler `Documentation 
> Macros` and we also say the tiddlers where are the macros.
> El jueves, 31 de marzo de 2022 a las 16:55:12 UTC+2, cj.v...@gmail.com 
> escribió:
>
>> As part of the learning process, it is really handy to see all of the 
>> TiddlyWiki goodness involved in any examples.
>>
>> That is frustratingly hard to do, because many examples are the result of 
>> macro renderings.
>>
>> Take the "all Operator (Examples)" tiddler for, um, example (screenshot 
>> further below):
>>
>> As I look at everything there, I am not only interested in how "all" 
>> works, but I am also interested in how the "Try it" buttons work.
>>
>> When I edit that tiddler to see how things work, I see a whole bunch of 
>> macro references.
>>
>> That's cool.  I also have an opportunity to see how macros work by 
>> inspecting them.
>>
>> But I have no idea how to find these macros.
>>
>> So now I can't easily see how those "Try it" buttons are setup.
>>
>> These are roadblocks to learning TiddlyWiki things.
>>
>> I'd like to request that the documentation be setup such that learners 
>> can easily discover things in that TiddlyWiki.  Either stop using macros as 
>> a way to show examples (maybe replace them with transclusion templates, so 
>> that there are tiddler titles available to find things), or add some 
>> documentation to the documentation to make the macros easy to find.
>>
>> Something like that.
>>
>> [image: Screenshot 2022-03-31 11.41.49 AM.png]
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki documentation request: improve access to examples

2022-03-31 Thread Álvaro 
It's true. It is difficult to find if we don't know how do it. In tab 
System of AdvancedSearch, its tiddler can be found-> ` 
$:/editions/tw5.com/operator-macros 
`if you enter its name (`.operator-example`) 

Maybe it could be together the other macros in the tiddler `Documentation 
Macros` and we also say the tiddlers where are the macros.
El jueves, 31 de marzo de 2022 a las 16:55:12 UTC+2, cj.v...@gmail.com 
escribió:

> As part of the learning process, it is really handy to see all of the 
> TiddlyWiki goodness involved in any examples.
>
> That is frustratingly hard to do, because many examples are the result of 
> macro renderings.
>
> Take the "all Operator (Examples)" tiddler for, um, example (screenshot 
> further below):
>
> As I look at everything there, I am not only interested in how "all" 
> works, but I am also interested in how the "Try it" buttons work.
>
> When I edit that tiddler to see how things work, I see a whole bunch of 
> macro references.
>
> That's cool.  I also have an opportunity to see how macros work by 
> inspecting them.
>
> But I have no idea how to find these macros.
>
> So now I can't easily see how those "Try it" buttons are setup.
>
> These are roadblocks to learning TiddlyWiki things.
>
> I'd like to request that the documentation be setup such that learners can 
> easily discover things in that TiddlyWiki.  Either stop using macros as a 
> way to show examples (maybe replace them with transclusion templates, so 
> that there are tiddler titles available to find things), or add some 
> documentation to the documentation to make the macros easy to find.
>
> Something like that.
>
> [image: Screenshot 2022-03-31 11.41.49 AM.png]
>
>
>

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