Re: [tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-02 Thread Atronoush Parsi 
Thank you David and Tones!
David gave a very detailed answer!

- Atro

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 3:34 AM Rika Sukenik  wrote:

> "
> *But much more needs to be done. I for one would like to see a few
> non-techy, popular video introductions to saving in node.js and with
> Timimi, to be able to link to, to help first-timers get started." - David
> Gifford *
>
> ^^ youtube videos will probably help a lot with reach! ^^
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 11:16 AM David Gifford  wrote:
>
>> As someone who is not so new...
>>
>>  1. No end user final apps - I think Atro means - "no or not many
>> editions custom-designed to meet end-user specific needs" There are a
>> couple of things for recipes, etc, but yes, there is a LOT of room for more
>> things like that!
>>
>> 2. No easy to go documentation - I agree, much of the documentation is
>> more about explaining the definitions of concepts than about How to do this
>> and that. A few years ago I added some documentation for new users (a lot
>> of the tiddlers from the Working with TiddlyWiki section of the Contents
>> tab at tiddlywiki.com were started by me, and I did a lot of
>> introductory tutorial tiddlers for my Stroll). But much more needs to be
>> done. I for one would like to see a few non-techy, popular video
>> introductions to saving in node.js and with Timimi, to be able to link to,
>> to help first-timers get started.
>>
>> 3. No support for advertising - yes, this is open source, not a business,
>> so that is on all of us. Stroll got a few balls rolling, and TiddlyTweeter
>> should especially singled out as someone who promotes TW on social media
>> (he is not the only one, but is the one whose activity I have happened to
>> see the most). We need a few more champions like that.
>>
>> 4. Raw materials for developers - that is a good description, and I hope
>> TW never loses that aspect. But we need to find a way to ease new people
>> into it better, to lower the learning curve.
>>
>> So yeah, Atro is essentially right. It wouldn't take much to change much
>> of this. But most of us are either busy at our jobs in other fields, and
>> focus on using TiddlyWiki rather than tinkering with it too much (I am one
>> of those), or feel our free time and our personal abilties are more in the
>> area of tinkering and coming up with plugins and new ideas, than doing
>> documentation and onboarding (I am not one of those). We need to convert a
>> few advertising and publicizing experts to TiddlyWiki, and maybe then we
>> will get there. Blessings,
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-5 rika.s...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Atro, good feedback. Sounds like you're new to Tiddlywiki, welcome!
>>> I'm new too. Can you elaborate on: "The few things TW has not are: no end
>>> user / final apps, no easy to go documentation and no support for
>>> advertising to introduce this tool to people. It seems TW is for a group of
>>> developers like raw materials to create different things but rarely a final
>>> product."
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 7:40:01 AM UTC-7 Atronoush wrote:
>>>
 I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These
 days many people look for such tools.
 I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!

 * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
 * TW support rich texts
 * TW supports bibliography
 * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
 * TW supports audio/video/images
 * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or
 Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
 * TW has commenting system
 * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
 * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
 * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???

 The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go
 documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to
 people.
 It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create
 different things but rarely a final product.

 --Atro



 --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/4HQKTA-J3f8/unsubscribe.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>> tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/216c97b0-c521-447a-8868-c1851708123en%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>

Re: [tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-01 Thread Rika Sukenik 
"
*But much more needs to be done. I for one would like to see a few
non-techy, popular video introductions to saving in node.js and with
Timimi, to be able to link to, to help first-timers get started." - David
Gifford *

^^ youtube videos will probably help a lot with reach! ^^



On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 11:16 AM David Gifford  wrote:

> As someone who is not so new...
>
>  1. No end user final apps - I think Atro means - "no or not many editions
> custom-designed to meet end-user specific needs" There are a couple of
> things for recipes, etc, but yes, there is a LOT of room for more things
> like that!
>
> 2. No easy to go documentation - I agree, much of the documentation is
> more about explaining the definitions of concepts than about How to do this
> and that. A few years ago I added some documentation for new users (a lot
> of the tiddlers from the Working with TiddlyWiki section of the Contents
> tab at tiddlywiki.com were started by me, and I did a lot of introductory
> tutorial tiddlers for my Stroll). But much more needs to be done. I for one
> would like to see a few non-techy, popular video introductions to saving in
> node.js and with Timimi, to be able to link to, to help first-timers get
> started.
>
> 3. No support for advertising - yes, this is open source, not a business,
> so that is on all of us. Stroll got a few balls rolling, and TiddlyTweeter
> should especially singled out as someone who promotes TW on social media
> (he is not the only one, but is the one whose activity I have happened to
> see the most). We need a few more champions like that.
>
> 4. Raw materials for developers - that is a good description, and I hope
> TW never loses that aspect. But we need to find a way to ease new people
> into it better, to lower the learning curve.
>
> So yeah, Atro is essentially right. It wouldn't take much to change much
> of this. But most of us are either busy at our jobs in other fields, and
> focus on using TiddlyWiki rather than tinkering with it too much (I am one
> of those), or feel our free time and our personal abilties are more in the
> area of tinkering and coming up with plugins and new ideas, than doing
> documentation and onboarding (I am not one of those). We need to convert a
> few advertising and publicizing experts to TiddlyWiki, and maybe then we
> will get there. Blessings,
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-5 rika.s...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Atro, good feedback. Sounds like you're new to Tiddlywiki, welcome!
>> I'm new too. Can you elaborate on: "The few things TW has not are: no end
>> user / final apps, no easy to go documentation and no support for
>> advertising to introduce this tool to people. It seems TW is for a group of
>> developers like raw materials to create different things but rarely a final
>> product."
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 7:40:01 AM UTC-7 Atronoush wrote:
>>
>>> I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These
>>> days many people look for such tools.
>>> I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!
>>>
>>> * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
>>> * TW support rich texts
>>> * TW supports bibliography
>>> * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
>>> * TW supports audio/video/images
>>> * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or
>>> Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
>>> * TW has commenting system
>>> * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
>>> * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
>>> * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???
>>>
>>> The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go
>>> documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to
>>> people.
>>> It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create
>>> different things but rarely a final product.
>>>
>>> --Atro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/4HQKTA-J3f8/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/216c97b0-c521-447a-8868-c1851708123en%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CALSoQA1aD71JCWYtH3p6%2BuyhROOhj0iqPqyUoEiGMqBhFnxv0A%40mail.gmail.com.

[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-01 Thread TW Tones 
Atro,

The end products you speak of have being called *editions*, a whole suite 
has being published by people. 

However they often demonstrate the possibilities and have not necessarily 
evolved to increase usability.

Many other end user products have no doubt being created and implemented 
into homes, teams, work places with a larger user base than understands 
tiddlywiki. 

   - However these are for purpose solutions made by an enthusiast for a a 
   defined purpose and audience.
   - As a result you tend not to see them

To transition from a good design to a robust published solution takes a lot 
of work and effort. 

   - It's even more complex if you want to empower users to customise and 
   develop it further without learning tiddlywiki.
   - What is the incentive here?, we do not have an established sales and 
   distribution channel, 
   - I am all for free open source but sometimes it limits the 
   affordability of undertaking the development process.

Some food for thought
We can work to change this.

Tones

On Friday, 2 October 2020 00:40:01 UTC+10, Atronoush wrote:
>
> I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These 
> days many people look for such tools.
> I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!
>
> * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
> * TW support rich texts
> * TW supports bibliography 
> * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
> * TW supports audio/video/images
> * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or 
> Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
> * TW has commenting system
> * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
> * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
> * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???
>
> The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go 
> documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to 
> people.
> It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create 
> different things but rarely a final product.
>
> --Atro
>
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fda2dc13-5979-4b06-afbe-dc02086360deo%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-01 Thread David Gifford 
As someone who is not so new...

 1. No end user final apps - I think Atro means - "no or not many editions 
custom-designed to meet end-user specific needs" There are a couple of 
things for recipes, etc, but yes, there is a LOT of room for more things 
like that!

2. No easy to go documentation - I agree, much of the documentation is more 
about explaining the definitions of concepts than about How to do this and 
that. A few years ago I added some documentation for new users (a lot of 
the tiddlers from the Working with TiddlyWiki section of the Contents tab 
at tiddlywiki.com were started by me, and I did a lot of introductory 
tutorial tiddlers for my Stroll). But much more needs to be done. I for one 
would like to see a few non-techy, popular video introductions to saving in 
node.js and with Timimi, to be able to link to, to help first-timers get 
started.

3. No support for advertising - yes, this is open source, not a business, 
so that is on all of us. Stroll got a few balls rolling, and TiddlyTweeter 
should especially singled out as someone who promotes TW on social media 
(he is not the only one, but is the one whose activity I have happened to 
see the most). We need a few more champions like that.

4. Raw materials for developers - that is a good description, and I hope TW 
never loses that aspect. But we need to find a way to ease new people into 
it better, to lower the learning curve.

So yeah, Atro is essentially right. It wouldn't take much to change much of 
this. But most of us are either busy at our jobs in other fields, and focus 
on using TiddlyWiki rather than tinkering with it too much (I am one of 
those), or feel our free time and our personal abilties are more in the 
area of tinkering and coming up with plugins and new ideas, than doing 
documentation and onboarding (I am not one of those). We need to convert a 
few advertising and publicizing experts to TiddlyWiki, and maybe then we 
will get there. Blessings,

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-5 rika.s...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Atro, good feedback. Sounds like you're new to Tiddlywiki, welcome! 
> I'm new too. Can you elaborate on: "The few things TW has not are: no end 
> user / final apps, no easy to go documentation and no support for 
> advertising to introduce this tool to people. It seems TW is for a group of 
> developers like raw materials to create different things but rarely a final 
> product." 
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 7:40:01 AM UTC-7 Atronoush wrote:
>
>> I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These 
>> days many people look for such tools.
>> I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!
>>
>> * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
>> * TW support rich texts
>> * TW supports bibliography 
>> * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
>> * TW supports audio/video/images
>> * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or 
>> Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
>> * TW has commenting system
>> * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
>> * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
>> * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???
>>
>> The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go 
>> documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to 
>> people.
>> It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create 
>> different things but rarely a final product.
>>
>> --Atro
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/216c97b0-c521-447a-8868-c1851708123en%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-01 Thread Atronoush Parsi 
Hi Rika,
 What I mean is TW is very powerful but there are few end user
apps/editions. For newcomers there is no good starting manual / quick start
tutorial, ...
 ...

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:27 PM Rika Sukenik  wrote:

> Hey Atro, good feedback. Sounds like you're new to Tiddlywiki, welcome!
> I'm new too. Can you elaborate on: "The few things TW has not are: no end
> user / final apps, no easy to go documentation and no support for
> advertising to introduce this tool to people. It seems TW is for a group of
> developers like raw materials to create different things but rarely a final
> product."
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 7:40:01 AM UTC-7 Atronoush wrote:
>
>> I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These
>> days many people look for such tools.
>> I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!
>>
>> * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
>> * TW support rich texts
>> * TW supports bibliography
>> * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
>> * TW supports audio/video/images
>> * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or
>> Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
>> * TW has commenting system
>> * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
>> * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
>> * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???
>>
>> The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go
>> documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to
>> people.
>> It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create
>> different things but rarely a final product.
>>
>> --Atro
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fc8fc6a4-4bea-44a6-93cb-580b2b2a429an%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAKHVXmr0Nr_nnf7ALg6y6fWxZHqygEZnhNCAtM5yA4R%3Dy0JvTw%40mail.gmail.com.

[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki as a free open source E-Learning authoring Tool

2020-10-01 Thread Rika Sukenik 
Hey Atro, good feedback. Sounds like you're new to Tiddlywiki, welcome! I'm 
new too. Can you elaborate on: "The few things TW has not are: no end user 
/ final apps, no easy to go documentation and no support for advertising 
to introduce this tool to people. It seems TW is for a group of developers 
like raw materials to create different things but rarely a final product." 

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 7:40:01 AM UTC-7 Atronoush wrote:

> I was searching for a free open source e-learning authoring tool. These 
> days many people look for such tools.
> I think Tiddlywiki is one of the best. BUT few people know!!!
>
> * TW supports hyperlinks / tags / TOC  / ...
> * TW support rich texts
> * TW supports bibliography 
> * TW supports Latex (KLatex)
> * TW supports audio/video/images
> * TW has native presentation tool (through plugins like Tiddlyshow or 
> Tiddlywiki-Reveal.Js)
> * TW has commenting system
> * TW supports Quiz / Q / flash cards
> * TW support Todos/tasks/projects
> * TW supports  what TW does not support authoring???
>
> The few things TW has not are: no end user / final apps, no easy to go 
> documentation and no support for advertising to introduce this tool to 
> people.
> It seems TW is for a group of developers like raw materials to create 
> different things but rarely a final product.
>
> --Atro
>
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fc8fc6a4-4bea-44a6-93cb-580b2b2a429an%40googlegroups.com.