Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-17 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Hi Thomas,
 Many thanks for clarification!


Best wishes
Mohammad


On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 2:15 PM Thomas Elmiger 
wrote:

> Hi Mohammad (and all others),
>
> My hoster moved tid.li to a new server today and the SSL certificates
> seem still to be in the renewal process. So please try again later (or try
> the button "accept the risk" in your browser if you dare).
>
> All the best,
> Thomas
>
> Mohammad schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. März 2021 um 09:05:14 UTC+1:
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>  I cannot open the
>> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>>  It seems there is a problem with the site!
>>  Would you please have a look?
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 8:27:50 PM UTC+3:30 thomas@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and
 there would be sensible defaults

>>>
>>> That was my intention too, but I did never find the time to finish the
>>> idea. Something like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>>>
>>> Note 1: All colours are present as a sample here, something the standard
>>> palette editor does not offer. (Colours defined as rgba(0,0,255,0.25) or
>>> <> seem to be black there.)
>>>
>>> Note 2: The testing section at the bottom where you should be able to
>>> see the consequences for important elements.
>>>
>>> Have a nice weekend, you all!
>>> Thomas
>>>
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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-17 Thread Thomas Elmiger
Hi Mohammad (and all others),

My hoster moved tid.li to a new server today and the SSL certificates seem 
still to be in the renewal process. So please try again later (or try the 
button "accept the risk" in your browser if you dare).

All the best,
Thomas

Mohammad schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. März 2021 um 09:05:14 UTC+1:

> Hi Thomas,
>  I cannot open the 
> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>  It seems there is a problem with the site!
>  Would you please have a look?
>
>
> On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 8:27:50 PM UTC+3:30 thomas@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there 
>>> would be sensible defaults 
>>>
>>
>> That was my intention too, but I did never find the time to finish the 
>> idea. Something like this:
>>
>>
>> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>>
>> Note 1: All colours are present as a sample here, something the standard 
>> palette editor does not offer. (Colours defined as rgba(0,0,255,0.25) or 
>> <> seem to be black there.)
>>
>> Note 2: The testing section at the bottom where you should be able to see 
>> the consequences for important elements.
>>
>> Have a nice weekend, you all!
>> Thomas
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-17 Thread Mohammad
Hi Thomas,
 I cannot open the 
https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
 It seems there is a problem with the site!
 Would you please have a look?


On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 8:27:50 PM UTC+3:30 thomas@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there 
>> would be sensible defaults 
>>
>
> That was my intention too, but I did never find the time to finish the 
> idea. Something like this:
>
>
> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>
> Note 1: All colours are present as a sample here, something the standard 
> palette editor does not offer. (Colours defined as rgba(0,0,255,0.25) or 
> <> seem to be black there.)
>
> Note 2: The testing section at the bottom where you should be able to see 
> the consequences for important elements.
>
> Have a nice weekend, you all!
> Thomas
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Hi Jeremy,


On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 5:11 PM Jeremy Ruston 
wrote:

> Of the 123 selectors, an awful lot fall into some special categories like
> diffs, alerts, modals, and TiddlyDesktop’s wikilist. Adding foldable groups
> to the palette editor would go a long way to making things more
> comprehensible.
>
>
So, we can with much smaller set!



> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there
> would be sensible defaults to ripple them through the specific entries,
> most of which should be expressed in terms of those cornerstone colours.
>


Do you recommend having a dynamic stylesheet or have a tool to create the
static stylesheet? The question is true for the color palette.


>
> To do that, we’d probably need some colour mixing macros, so that one
> could set a palette entry to, say, the primary colour at 50% brightness.
>

In color play I have used a small blend macro (JS) to create shades and
tints the outs are acceptable and you can mix any other color. It uses a
simple formula like below:

// 4: blend
var color3 = [
(1 - percentage) * color1[0] + percentage * color2[0],
(1 - percentage) * color1[1] + percentage * color2[1],
(1 - percentage) * color1[2] + percentage * color2[2] ];


(see: https://colorplay.tiddlyhost.com/#Color%20Scheme%20UI%20with%20Stripe)
other properties like alpha value can be added.

Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> On 12 Mar 2021, at 04:50, Mohammad Rahmani 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>  Thank you for your reply!
>   Yes, I think so, getting to sort out the vanilla palette and try
> removing extra selectors is a tough job!
>  I like to know what Jeremy thinks about this.
>
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 5:26 AM clutterstack  wrote:
>
>> Hi Mohammad,
>>
>> I very much agree that the palette is very uncomfortable to tweak
>> selector-by-selector.
>>
>> I think this has grown organically and cleaning it up (or rethinking the
>> impact of changing it) is a tedious job. What breaks if we don't have all
>> the selectors currently in Vanilla? I haven't investigated (except
>> occasionally by accident, ha).
>>
>> There are a bunch of "wikilist" ones at the end that I think are for
>> TiddlyDesktop(?) and so add to the number without making the TW theming
>> more complicated.
>>
>> I haven't looked (and I should, if I'm going to be playing with this sort
>> of thing), but I would guess that there are themes out there that don't
>> need Vanilla, with fewer selectors.
>>
>> I'm rambling. I agree with what you say. At the moment, it seems to me
>> that grouping some selectors together, as I'm doing, but perhaps a bit less
>> aggressively (or more aggressively?) will make it easier for users to make
>> themes without making any changes to the core.
>>
>> Thomas Elmiger and Jeremy have evidently been thinking about colour and
>> colour harmony tools for some time, from the thread you referenced
>> (Jeremy's response and TT's link to telmiger's colour tools page).
>>
>> Best,
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 11:52:59 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>> Referencing to Tweakable colour palette
>>> 
>>>
>>> 1. Goto https://tiddlywiki.com/
>>> 2. Open the Advanced search
>>> 
>>> 3. In the filter tab enter [[$:/palettes/Vanilla]indexes[]count[]]
>>>
>>> You see there are *132 *css selectors!
>>>
>>> Trying to create a new template is a BIG headache!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Mohammad
>>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Hi Thomas,

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 12:49 AM Thomas Elmiger 
wrote:

> Is there any list to recognize the important elements?
>>
>
> Well, here are *some* elements I did consider important:
> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Freadability
> But it depends both on the design and the usage.
>

Thank you! I think this is a good start! I think it is also useful to have
all possible items (e.g text, links, button, other inputs edittext, range,
...) to test in the above readability tiddler.

>
> Example for theme complexity: I found it really hard to style a theme with
> bright colours (dark font on light background) in the story river and dark
> mode (bright fonts on dark background) in the sidebar.
> Examples for usage importance: The saving confirmation popping up in the
> top right corner is important for folks like me using the single page
> version and a browser plugin. It might be less important for people working
> on Node.js.
>
> By the way, you can see that my solution is not working for all colour
> definitions. In CSS and in TiddlyWiki you can define a colour value as
> "inherit" – but it is impossible to test that with my macros.
>
> Hovering over the test lines with the mouse will show you the macro input
> (near the border) and the output colours tested.
>

Yes, I found it really tough! I am not sure if it is possible to start with
a theme+palette from scratch! and build build everything on top of them.



>
>
> All the best,
> Thomas
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Álvaro
Maybe we are dealing with this problem in the wrong way.  

   - 132 selectors are too many to group directly
   - It is also a headache to try to do it with 50-60 colors that there are 
   in Vanilla (this was the way that I tried long ago)
   

However there are 15-20 colors in ContrastLight palette. We could do the 
groups more easily and also separate selectors of "special categories" 
commented by Jeremy.

When I tried it I thought that TWCrosslinks 
 (by akhater) could be useful to 
move selectors between groups. 

El sábado, 13 de marzo de 2021 a las 22:19:22 UTC+1, thomas@gmail.com 
escribió:

> Is there any list to recognize the important elements?
>>
>
> Well, here are *some* elements I did consider important: 
> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Freadability
> But it depends both on the design and the usage. 
> Example for theme complexity: I found it really hard to style a theme with 
> bright colours (dark font on light background) in the story river and dark 
> mode (bright fonts on dark background) in the sidebar.
> Examples for usage importance: The saving confirmation popping up in the 
> top right corner is important for folks like me using the single page 
> version and a browser plugin. It might be less important for people working 
> on Node.js. 
>
> By the way, you can see that my solution is not working for all colour 
> definitions. In CSS and in TiddlyWiki you can define a colour value as 
> "inherit" – but it is impossible to test that with my macros. 
>
> Hovering over the test lines with the mouse will show you the macro input 
> (near the border) and the output colours tested. 
>
> All the best,
> Thomas
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Thomas Elmiger


> Is there any list to recognize the important elements?
>

Well, here are *some* elements I did consider important: 
https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Freadability
But it depends both on the design and the usage. 
Example for theme complexity: I found it really hard to style a theme with 
bright colours (dark font on light background) in the story river and dark 
mode (bright fonts on dark background) in the sidebar.
Examples for usage importance: The saving confirmation popping up in the 
top right corner is important for folks like me using the single page 
version and a browser plugin. It might be less important for people working 
on Node.js. 

By the way, you can see that my solution is not working for all colour 
definitions. In CSS and in TiddlyWiki you can define a colour value as 
"inherit" – but it is impossible to test that with my macros. 

Hovering over the test lines with the mouse will show you the macro input 
(near the border) and the output colours tested. 

All the best,
Thomas

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Best wishes
Mohammad


On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 8:27 PM Thomas Elmiger 
wrote:

> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there
>> would be sensible defaults
>>
>
> That was my intention too, but I did never find the time to finish the
> idea. Something like this:
>
>
> https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor
>
> Note 1: All colours are present as a sample here, something the standard
> palette editor does not offer. (Colours defined as rgba(0,0,255,0.25) or
> <> seem to be black there.)
>
>
Lovely!



> Note 2: The testing section at the bottom where you should be able to see
> the consequences for important elements.
>

Is there any list to recognize the important elements?



>
> Have a nice weekend, you all!
> Thomas
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Hi Thomas


Best wishes
Mohammad


On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 8:11 PM Thomas Elmiger 
wrote:

>
> To do that, we’d probably need some colour mixing macros, so that one
>> could set a palette entry to, say, the primary colour at 50% brightness.
>>
>> Here’s a plugin that offers a lot of functions for exactly this kind of
> colour variants:
> https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Ftelmiger%2FColorAction
>

This is awesome and it can be very handy in creating a palette!

>
> Maybe a good starting point for something baked into the core?
>

Yes, It is important to have some color handling macro here!

>
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Thomas Elmiger

>
> Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there 
> would be sensible defaults 
>

That was my intention too, but I did never find the time to finish the 
idea. Something like this:

https://tid.li/tw5/apps/bricks.html#%24%3A%2Fapps%2Ftelmiger%2Fbricks%2Fpaletteeditor

Note 1: All colours are present as a sample here, something the standard 
palette editor does not offer. (Colours defined as rgba(0,0,255,0.25) or 
<> seem to be black there.)

Note 2: The testing section at the bottom where you should be able to see 
the consequences for important elements.

Have a nice weekend, you all!
Thomas

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Thomas Elmiger


> To do that, we’d probably need some colour mixing macros, so that one 
> could set a palette entry to, say, the primary colour at 50% brightness.
>
> Here’s a plugin that offers a lot of functions for exactly this kind of 
colour variants: 
https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Ftelmiger%2FColorAction

Maybe a good starting point for something baked into the core? 

Cheers,
Thomas

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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-13 Thread Jeremy Ruston
Of the 123 selectors, an awful lot fall into some special categories like 
diffs, alerts, modals, and TiddlyDesktop’s wikilist. Adding foldable groups to 
the palette editor would go a long way to making things more comprehensible.

Ideally, the user would select a handful of cornerstone colours and there would 
be sensible defaults to ripple them through the specific entries, most of which 
should be expressed in terms of those cornerstone colours.

To do that, we’d probably need some colour mixing macros, so that one could set 
a palette entry to, say, the primary colour at 50% brightness.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 12 Mar 2021, at 04:50, Mohammad Rahmani  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
>  Thank you for your reply!
>   Yes, I think so, getting to sort out the vanilla palette and try removing 
> extra selectors is a tough job!
>  I like to know what Jeremy thinks about this.
> 
> 
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 5:26 AM clutterstack  > wrote:
> Hi Mohammad,
> 
> I very much agree that the palette is very uncomfortable to tweak 
> selector-by-selector.
> 
> I think this has grown organically and cleaning it up (or rethinking the 
> impact of changing it) is a tedious job. What breaks if we don't have all the 
> selectors currently in Vanilla? I haven't investigated (except occasionally 
> by accident, ha).
> 
> There are a bunch of "wikilist" ones at the end that I think are for 
> TiddlyDesktop(?) and so add to the number without making the TW theming more 
> complicated. 
> 
> I haven't looked (and I should, if I'm going to be playing with this sort of 
> thing), but I would guess that there are themes out there that don't need 
> Vanilla, with fewer selectors.
> 
> I'm rambling. I agree with what you say. At the moment, it seems to me that 
> grouping some selectors together, as I'm doing, but perhaps a bit less 
> aggressively (or more aggressively?) will make it easier for users to make 
> themes without making any changes to the core.
> 
> Thomas Elmiger and Jeremy have evidently been thinking about colour and 
> colour harmony tools for some time, from the thread you referenced (Jeremy's 
> response and TT's link to telmiger's colour tools page).
> 
> Best,
> Chris
> 
> On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 11:52:59 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
> Referencing to Tweakable colour palette 
> 
> 
> 1. Goto https://tiddlywiki.com/ 
> 2. Open the Advanced search  
> 3. In the filter tab enter [[$:/palettes/Vanilla]indexes[]count[]]
> 
> You see there are 132 css selectors!
> 
> Trying to create a new template is a BIG headache!
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
> 
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>  
> .
> 
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[tw5] Tiddlywiki Color Template: Too many colors to be set

2021-03-11 Thread Mohammad Rahmani
Referencing to Tweakable colour palette


1. Goto https://tiddlywiki.com/
2. Open the Advanced search

3. In the filter tab enter [[$:/palettes/Vanilla]indexes[]count[]]

You see there are *132 *css selectors!

Trying to create a new template is a BIG headache!



Best wishes
Mohammad

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