Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2018-01-03 Thread PMario 
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote: 

>   It would be interesting to know what features caused the 4x increase in 
> the core, despite dropping support for Jquery.
>

Basically we traded size for convenience and configurability. 

With TWclassic, you have 5 main tiddlers, that define the whole UI. 
PageTemplate, ViewTemplate,  EditTemplate and 2 bigger StyleSheet tiddlers. 

Whenever you want to change something there, you'll need to overwrite the 
core tiddlers. 
 - This makes updating much more complicated, than today.
 - If you make a small mistake, you'll completely mess up your UI, to a 
degree, where it is unusable.

TW5 has configuration parameters, for most of the changes, that where 
common in TWc. eg: most button visibilities are configurable now. 
ControlPanel alone has ~30 pages. 

emptyTW5.html has: 

 - 227 config tiddlers, that are active by default. 
 - 10+ ViewTemplate related tiddlers
 - 12+ EditTemplate related tiddlers
 - 9+ PageTemplate related tiddlers
 - 1000+ $:/language/ related tiddlers. Those where hardcoded in TWc and 
made translations hard and error prone

So it's basically convenience UI based functions, which increase empty.html 
size.

IMO we could squeeze out about 50% of the size, without loosing end-user 
conveninece but *at the cost of maintainability*. This gives us ~ 1MByte. 
... The win, will be lost, when a user includes the 1st jpg-image, to 
customize the TW background.

So in the end we just lost maintainablility ... and IMO that's not worth it!

---

jQuery was initially needed, to level out browser incompatibilities. It's 
success showed all browser vendors, what's really important for developers, 
and how and where to focus on "web" / browser improvements. ... 
Implementing the new specification and development patterns needed time. 
But now most of the stuff,  that jQuery invented, is part of current web 
standards, which makes jQuery itself "kind of" obsolete. ... 

have fun!
mario

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2018-01-02 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
It's unfortunately true that developers often think in terms of state of 
the art technology.  It would be interesting to know what features caused 
the 4x increase in the core, despite dropping support for Jquery.

-- Mark

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-8, vayira wrote:
>
> The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I 
> have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M. 
> So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting 
> with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over 
> 2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file. 
>
> On 25 December 2017 at 00:01, TonyM > 
> wrote:
>
>> Fyi
>>
>> No bloat in tw5 in my view,
>>
>> I maintain my twc in TiddlyDesktop and links open in the default browser.
>>
>> Rather than upgrade I am moving from a monolithic twc to multiple tw5s 
>> with a high degree of intergration. The tw5 wikis run in the latest FF with 
>> local host or IP address using TiddlyServer as host and directory to file 
>> and node JS implementations with no saving issues.
>>
>> In tw5 there are many features you needed plugins for in twc now in the 
>> core, there is also much more customisation in an empty tw5 than twc with 
>> plugins.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
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>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2018-01-02 Thread TonyM 
Fyi

My old twc has 8000 Tiddlers at 17mb and I expect tw5 to perform better. True 
this is local access single file only without auto save.

Tony

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2018-01-02 Thread PMario 
On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 5:44:07 PM UTC+1, vayira wrote:
>
> The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I 
> have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M. 
> So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting 
> with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over 
> 2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file. 
>

If you use a decent hosting service, the servers will compress the file, 
befor sending it over the wire. 

So empty.htm will be about 2MByte plain text, but 300k sent over the net. 
... 

Compared to 1 image of a modern smartphone, which has about 4 MByte, TW is 
nothing, and JPEGs can't be compressed  

just my 2 cents
mario

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2018-01-02 Thread Vayira 
The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I
have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M.
So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting
with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over
2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file.

On 25 December 2017 at 00:01, TonyM  wrote:

> Fyi
>
> No bloat in tw5 in my view,
>
> I maintain my twc in TiddlyDesktop and links open in the default browser.
>
> Rather than upgrade I am moving from a monolithic twc to multiple tw5s
> with a high degree of intergration. The tw5 wikis run in the latest FF with
> local host or IP address using TiddlyServer as host and directory to file
> and node JS implementations with no saving issues.
>
> In tw5 there are many features you needed plugins for in twc now in the
> core, there is also much more customisation in an empty tw5 than twc with
> plugins.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2017-12-24 Thread Birthe C 
I understand, but using Tiddlywiki in the Sky for Dropbox saves your wiki 
to your dropbox. Other saving options needs you to use a folder under your 
download folder.

Birthe

Den søndag den 24. december 2017 kl. 17.08.29 UTC+1 skrev vayira:
>
> But dropbox is just a folder on all my hard drives so I don't need a 
> special app or anything to use it. Been doing it for years. The only issue 
> that concerns me is if save stops working in my browser. 
>
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2017-12-24 Thread Vayira 
But dropbox is just a folder on all my hard drives so I don't need a
special app or anything to use it. Been doing it for years. The only issue
that concerns me is if save stops working in my browser.

On 24 December 2017 at 12:04, Birthe C  wrote:

> I think you will like https://twcloud.github.io/dropbox/# You can read
> about that and all the opther saving options here https://tiddlywiki.com/#
> GettingStarted.
>
> Birthe
>
> Den søndag den 24. december 2017 kl. 16.13.01 UTC+1 skrev vayira:
>>
>> Thanks Tony.
>>
>>  keep my TW on dropbox so having to use the download directory isn't very
>> good.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

2017-10-30 Thread Arlen Beiler 
I believe there is now an option (or will be in 5.1.15) to trigger the
download saver with autosave. But if you tend to keep TiddlyWiki open, then
the download saver is not your best option, since you are tied to one
browser anyway and there are better solutions. But the download saver still
works very well for sharing wikis between users and allows quick edit and
save and dump the file back into an email.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:45 PM, RichardWilliamSmith <
richardwilliamsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> In my opinion, the problem with relying on the Download Saver for many
> people is the chance of losing work accidentally. It depends, I suppose,
> how one actually uses TW. I tend to have it open all the time for making
> notes and personally, I wouldn't be at all happy to have to manually save
> everything.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
>
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