Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[A Gloom]

@Joshua

Definitely interested in multi-player functionality.  I still have my 
interactive novel TW with interactive SVG mapping and quasi first person 
perspective video game interface to work with the SVG mapping.

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4 joshua@gmail.com wrote:

> I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one 
> of the "Hard Problems": 
> https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the 
>> TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
>>  in this case. 
>> As per my post to this other thread 
>> ,  it opened my 
>> eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know 
>> what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
>> one's really not about that).
>>
>> On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
>> connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
>> capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
>> resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
>> real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
>> exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
>> where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
>> look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
>> here!
>>
>> /walt
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
 I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
 could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
 tiddlywiki5. 

>>>
>>> Hi Xavier,
>>>
>>> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
>>> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
>>> other than for serving a 
>>> single file resource. 
>>>
>>> TLDR;
>>> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to 
>>> do. 
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
>>> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
>>> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>>>
>>> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be 
>>> the same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>>>
>>> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
>>> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
>>> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
>>> and displays the tiddler.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
>>> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server 
>>> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 
>>>
>>> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
>>> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
>>> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
>>> side search. 
>>>
>>> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
>>> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
>>> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
>>> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built 
>>> using TW wikitext and tiddlers. 
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[TW Tones]

All,

With a long history in IT the best synchronisation platform I ever came 
across was Novel's E-Directory, the competitor to Microsoft "Active 
Directory". Whist it was primarily for directory services users, 
permissions etc... its underlying architecture was something I expected to 
take over the world, but sadly other factors diminished its influence. It 
was quite capable of synchronising even data. Within Edirectory, most of 
the difficult problems had being solved, including update issues if a copy 
of the directory when offline to others but still provisioned local 
services (and local changes). As a systematic or conceptual thinker I got a 
lot from E-directory and are saddened this technology seems to have being 
underutilised. It would be sad if it was trapped inside some copywrite law 
given Novel was always fighting (and winning) over the copywrite lord of 
Microsoft (at the time). 

Such a synchronised solution should be a cloud service, on which you can 
build anything including  tiddlers that makeup a tiddlywiki. Then all 
solutions would be inherently synchronised and multi-user, multi-location 
and internet redundant.

My Grandfather was an engineer in Radio, making the first every remote 
control toy in Australia for my dad, and his book towards the end of his 
career demonstrated how very often good ideas are lost in time and are only 
sometimes rediscovered or redeveloped. Perhaps it is my "late stage career" 
in IT that I am starting to see such examples proliferate as well. Many of 
these ideas are reinvented multiple times as if totally new. 

Regards
Tones

On Tuesday, 20 July 2021 at 07:29:13 UTC+10 Álvaro wrote:

> Joshua, there is the Fluid framework for collaborative web applications. 
> Although you surely know it. https://github.com/microsoft/FluidFramework
>
> El lunes, 19 de julio de 2021 a las 18:53:50 UTC+2, Stobot escribió:
>
>> I'm excited to hear about any new efforts on multi-user Joshua! I'm sure 
>> very hard, but game changing functionality for team TiddlyWiki usage!! I 
>> continue to try and use BOB for this, but the reconnect process is so 
>> spotty that it's difficult to get traction. 
>>
>> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 7:14:25 AM UTC-4 ludwa6 wrote:
>>
>>> Hard problem indeed, @Joshua, in domains where there needs be one 
>>> definitive source of truth... But in any problem space where there is room 
>>> for different versions of truth (the case in many applications of TW tech), 
>>> perhaps it needn't be so hard?  
>>>
>>> Without knowing which sub-species of the multiplayer problem you are 
>>> busy solving, i will say that i for one am these days more interested in 
>>> the problem-space where different versions of truth are respected & 
>>> included (or TRANScluded, as the case may be) than i am in the space where 
>>> one version must win out over all others.  
>>>
>>> For example: ii think Ward Cunningham was wise to sidestep all that 
>>> backstage ugliness of Wikipedia's "Consensus Engine" in developing his 
>>> Smallest 
>>> Federated Wiki 
>>> model.  
>>> (THAT in fact is my dream for how this TW multiverse eventually develops 
>>> some navigable wormholes between its many dimensions <8-)
>>>
>>> /walt
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 4:24:00 AM UTC+1 joshua@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely 
 one of the "Hard Problems": 
 https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/

 Best,
 Joshua Fontany

 On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:

> @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of 
> the TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
>  in this case. 
> As per my post to this other thread 
> ,  it opened my 
> eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to 
> know 
> what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
> one's really not about that).
>
> On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea 
> of connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / 
> multi-edit capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict 
> avoidance/ resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble 
> accepting 
> that as a real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from 
> email exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the 
> place where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other 
> place 
> to look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about 
> that 
> here!
>
> /walt
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 

Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Álvaro]

Joshua, there is the Fluid framework for collaborative web applications. 
Although you surely know it. https://github.com/microsoft/FluidFramework

El lunes, 19 de julio de 2021 a las 18:53:50 UTC+2, Stobot escribió:

> I'm excited to hear about any new efforts on multi-user Joshua! I'm sure 
> very hard, but game changing functionality for team TiddlyWiki usage!! I 
> continue to try and use BOB for this, but the reconnect process is so 
> spotty that it's difficult to get traction. 
>
> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 7:14:25 AM UTC-4 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> Hard problem indeed, @Joshua, in domains where there needs be one 
>> definitive source of truth... But in any problem space where there is room 
>> for different versions of truth (the case in many applications of TW tech), 
>> perhaps it needn't be so hard?  
>>
>> Without knowing which sub-species of the multiplayer problem you are busy 
>> solving, i will say that i for one am these days more interested in the 
>> problem-space where different versions of truth are respected & included 
>> (or TRANScluded, as the case may be) than i am in the space where one 
>> version must win out over all others.  
>>
>> For example: ii think Ward Cunningham was wise to sidestep all that 
>> backstage ugliness of Wikipedia's "Consensus Engine" in developing his 
>> Smallest 
>> Federated Wiki 
>> model.  
>> (THAT in fact is my dream for how this TW multiverse eventually develops 
>> some navigable wormholes between its many dimensions <8-)
>>
>> /walt
>>
>> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 4:24:00 AM UTC+1 joshua@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one 
>>> of the "Hard Problems": 
>>> https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Joshua Fontany
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:
>>>
 @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of 
 the TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
  in this case. 
 As per my post to this other thread 
 ,  it opened my 
 eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know 
 what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
 one's really not about that).

 On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
 connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
 capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
 resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
 real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
 exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
 where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
 look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
 here!

 /walt


 On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> ...
>
>> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
>> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
>> tiddlywiki5. 
>>
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
> other than for serving a 
> single file resource. 
>
> TLDR;
> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to 
> do. 
>
> --
>
> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression 
> only 
> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>
> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be 
> the same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>
> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the 
> browser will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is 
> already in the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the 
> URI fragment and displays the tiddler.
>
> -
>
> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file 
> server 
> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the 
> client. 
>
> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
> as text or JSON. There is a 

Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Stobot]

I'm excited to hear about any new efforts on multi-user Joshua! I'm sure 
very hard, but game changing functionality for team TiddlyWiki usage!! I 
continue to try and use BOB for this, but the reconnect process is so 
spotty that it's difficult to get traction. 

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 7:14:25 AM UTC-4 ludwa6 wrote:

> Hard problem indeed, @Joshua, in domains where there needs be one 
> definitive source of truth... But in any problem space where there is room 
> for different versions of truth (the case in many applications of TW tech), 
> perhaps it needn't be so hard?  
>
> Without knowing which sub-species of the multiplayer problem you are busy 
> solving, i will say that i for one am these days more interested in the 
> problem-space where different versions of truth are respected & included 
> (or TRANScluded, as the case may be) than i am in the space where one 
> version must win out over all others.  
>
> For example: ii think Ward Cunningham was wise to sidestep all that 
> backstage ugliness of Wikipedia's "Consensus Engine" in developing his 
> Smallest 
> Federated Wiki 
> model.  
> (THAT in fact is my dream for how this TW multiverse eventually develops 
> some navigable wormholes between its many dimensions <8-)
>
> /walt
>
> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 4:24:00 AM UTC+1 joshua@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one 
>> of the "Hard Problems": 
>> https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/
>>
>> Best,
>> Joshua Fontany
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:
>>
>>> @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the 
>>> TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
>>>  in this case. 
>>> As per my post to this other thread 
>>> ,  it opened my 
>>> eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know 
>>> what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
>>> one's really not about that).
>>>
>>> On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
>>> connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
>>> capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
>>> resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
>>> real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
>>> exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
>>> where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
>>> look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
>>> here!
>>>
>>> /walt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>>>
 On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 ...

> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
> tiddlywiki5. 
>

 Hi Xavier,

 I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
 TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
 other than for serving a 
 single file resource. 

 TLDR;
 I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to 
 do. 

 --

 If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
 about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 

 Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be 
 the same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 

 If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the 
 browser will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is 
 already in the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the 
 URI fragment and displays the tiddler.

 -

 A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
 request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file 
 server 
 side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 

 The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
 will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
 as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
 side search. 

 The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
 tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
 and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
 them are responsible for the TW js core and 

Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[ludwa6]

Hard problem indeed, @Joshua, in domains where there needs be one 
definitive source of truth... But in any problem space where there is room 
for different versions of truth (the case in many applications of TW tech), 
perhaps it needn't be so hard?  

Without knowing which sub-species of the multiplayer problem you are busy 
solving, i will say that i for one am these days more interested in the 
problem-space where different versions of truth are respected & included 
(or TRANScluded, as the case may be) than i am in the space where one 
version must win out over all others.  

For example: ii think Ward Cunningham was wise to sidestep all that 
backstage ugliness of Wikipedia's "Consensus Engine" in developing his Smallest 
Federated Wiki 
model.  
(THAT in fact is my dream for how this TW multiverse eventually develops 
some navigable wormholes between its many dimensions <8-)

/walt

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 4:24:00 AM UTC+1 joshua@gmail.com wrote:

> I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one 
> of the "Hard Problems": 
> https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the 
>> TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
>>  in this case. 
>> As per my post to this other thread 
>> ,  it opened my 
>> eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know 
>> what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
>> one's really not about that).
>>
>> On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
>> connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
>> capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
>> resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
>> real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
>> exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
>> where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
>> look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
>> here!
>>
>> /walt
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
 I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
 could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
 tiddlywiki5. 

>>>
>>> Hi Xavier,
>>>
>>> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
>>> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
>>> other than for serving a 
>>> single file resource. 
>>>
>>> TLDR;
>>> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to 
>>> do. 
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
>>> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
>>> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>>>
>>> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be 
>>> the same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>>>
>>> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
>>> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
>>> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
>>> and displays the tiddler.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
>>> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server 
>>> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 
>>>
>>> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
>>> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
>>> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
>>> side search. 
>>>
>>> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
>>> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
>>> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
>>> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built 
>>> using TW wikitext and tiddlers. 
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Joshua Fontany]

I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one of 
the "Hard Problems": https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/

Best,
Joshua Fontany

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 5:59:57 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:

> @PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the 
> TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
>  in this case. 
> As per my post to this other thread 
> ,  it opened my 
> eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know 
> what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this 
> one's really not about that).
>
> On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
> connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
> capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
> resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
> real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
> exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
> where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
> look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
> here!
>
> /walt
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
>>> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
>>> tiddlywiki5. 
>>>
>>
>> Hi Xavier,
>>
>> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
>> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
>> other than for serving a 
>> single file resource. 
>>
>> TLDR;
>> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to 
>> do. 
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
>> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
>> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>>
>> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the 
>> same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>>
>> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
>> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
>> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
>> and displays the tiddler.
>>
>> -
>>
>> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
>> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server 
>> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 
>>
>> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
>> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
>> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
>> side search. 
>>
>> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
>> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
>> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
>> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built 
>> using TW wikitext and tiddlers. 
>>
>> -mario
>>
>

-- 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[ludwa6]

@PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the TW 
world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
 in this case. 
As per my post to this other thread 
,  it opened my eyes 
to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know what 
you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this one's 
really not about that).

On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
real stopper in this day -although from what i gather (from email 
exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
here!

/walt


On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
>
>> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
>> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
>> tiddlywiki5. 
>>
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
> other than for serving a 
> single file resource. 
>
> TLDR;
> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to do. 
>
> --
>
> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>
> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the 
> same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>
> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
> and displays the tiddler.
>
> -
>
> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server 
> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 
>
> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
> side search. 
>
> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built 
> using TW wikitext and tiddlers. 
>
> -mario
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:10:00 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:

> Mario, yes I know that tiddlywiki is a html javascript engine.
> But I want something in the background, for example for managing 
> multiaccess and multiedit of same tiddler. I think it could be done with 
> backend.
>

TiddlyWeb allows access configuration, with policies. .. IMO there is no 
"multi-edit" functionality atm. 
 

> Mario, which shadow tiddler controls the pop up behaviour?
>

See the examples of the reveal widget. 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#RevealWidget. There is a "popup" button in the 3rd 
example.

-m

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Xavier]

Mario, yes I know that tiddlywiki is a html javascript engine.
But I want something in the background, for example for managing
multiaccess and multiedit of same tiddler. I think it could be done with
backend.

Mario, which shadow tiddler controls the pop up behaviour?

Thanks,

Missatge de PMario  del dia dc., 14 de jul. 2021 a les
14:51:

> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
>
>> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone
>> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official
>> tiddlywiki5.
>>
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ...
> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed
> other than for serving a
> single file resource.
>
> TLDR;
> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to do.
>
> --
>
> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single
> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only
> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client.
>
> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the
> same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail.
>
> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser
> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in
> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment
> and displays the tiddler.
>
> -
>
> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you
> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server
> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client.
>
> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that
> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI
> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server
> side search.
>
> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form
> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab
> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of
> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built
> using TW wikitext and tiddlers.
>
> -mario
>
> --
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> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:
...

> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
> tiddlywiki5. 
>

Hi Xavier,

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
other than for serving a 
single file resource. 

TLDR;
I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to do. 

--

If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 

Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the 
same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 

If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
and displays the tiddler.

-

A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you request 
https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server side 
and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 

The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that will 
let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI as 
text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server side 
search. 

The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab and 
have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of them are 
responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built using TW 
wikitext and tiddlers. 

-mario

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Xavier B.]

Thanks, Mario, for your response.

I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone could 
point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official tiddlywiki5.

Xavier

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
PMario  ha escrit:

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> You may have a closer look at: 
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
> 
> An overview may be found at: 
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
> 
> tank .. is a project from Chris Dent  the creator 
> of all the TiddlyWeb python code. 
> He runs those pages. .. So the best way would probably be to contact him. 
> He can tell you where to start in a much better way than I do. 
> 
> https://github.com/tiddlyweb  ... see: TiddlyWeb repo
> and http://tiddlyweb.com/ 
> and https://pypi.org/project/tiddlyweb/
> 
> There is an API explorer https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/explorer
> 
> BUT ... This version of tiddlyweb was created for TiddlyWiki 2 now also 
> known as: TiddlyWikiClassic or TWc
> 
> TiddlyWeb has much more possibilities than we use with the node-js version 
> at the moment. 
> 
> So definitely try to contact Chris.
> 
> have fun!
> mario
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Xavier B.]

Thanks, Mario, for your response.

I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone could 
point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official tiddlywiki5.

Xavier

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
PMario  ha escrit:

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> You may have a closer look at: 
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
> 
> An overview may be found at: 
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
> 
> tank .. is a project from Chris Dent  the creator 
> of all the TiddlyWeb python code. 
> He runs those pages. .. So the best way would probably be to contact him. 
> He can tell you where to start in a much better way than I do. 
> 
> https://github.com/tiddlyweb  ... see: TiddlyWeb repo
> and http://tiddlyweb.com/ 
> and https://pypi.org/project/tiddlyweb/
> 
> There is an API explorer https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/explorer
> 
> BUT ... This version of tiddlyweb was created for TiddlyWiki 2 now also 
> known as: TiddlyWikiClassic or TWc
> 
> TiddlyWeb has much more possibilities than we use with the node-js version 
> at the moment. 
> 
> So definitely try to contact Chris.
> 
> have fun!
> mario
> 
> -- 
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