[time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
I have a Jupiter based receiver that is not one of the standard modules. I'd like to see if I can get a 10KHz output from it, but I don't know which pin of the 144 possible options to look at. Would someone with a Jupiter board trace the connection from the 10 KHz output back to the pin on the chip it originates from? That would be a huge help. I suspect that you'll find it ends up on the chip labeled 11577-11. Thanks for your time, David Carr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5334B C-channel--was Re: Which HP Frequency Counter?
I was the project manager and chief EE on the HP5334B project. The 5334A had a C channel using an HP made divide by 10 prescaler that had a factory cost of ~$100. In the 5334B, I replaced this with the Fujitsu MB506 divide by 8 prescaler, which cost something like $2. The firmware was changed slightly to account for the different modulus. This is the ONLY difference in firmware between the 5334A and 5334B counters. I considered using the NEC uPB581/2 prescalers. This class of prescalers is based on dynamic flip flops, as opposed to static ones. These flip flops are only intended for prescaling a clean signal from a local oscillator in a synthesizer. In a frequency counter application, they work OK on a new clean signal, but will miscount on noisy signals. Noisy here refers to broadband noise, not close in phase noise. Prescalers are especially sensitive to low frequency noise. Now it can be told that we used to test all C channels in all models with an HP8660 synthesizer. This was not one of HP's best designs, and it has a lot of broadband noise. [The designers of this unfortunate product redeemed themselves with the 8662, one of HP's flagship products]. In order to properly count the 1.3 GHz signal from the 8660, it was necessary to use a high pass filter to keep the 8660's broadband noise from corrupting the measurement. This was also the case for the previous HP-made divide by 10 prescaler. I put a LOT of effort into evaluating various prescalers and trying to put in mitigation measures such as rolling off the low frequencies before they could get to the prescaler. I eventually decided that the task was hopeless with off the shelf prescalers. At the same time, one of the other designers in the lab was working on the 5386 counter, and naturally we compared notes. This counter used an HP-made static flip flop. The FF used in the 5334A was made at the Santa Clara bipolar silicon fab. The FF used in the 5386 was made in the Santa Rosa fab. Whether it was the process or the circuit design, the Santa Rosa FF was absolutely bullet proof. It made error free measurements of the lousiest signals. The designer of the 5386 delighted in finding new signals to measure and inviting me to a bake-off to see who's counter did better. Of course, I always lost these contests miserably! I would encourage owners of 5334B's w/o the C channel option to consider trying modern static flip flops from vendors such as Micrel and OnSemi, rather than installing the MB506. You can easily glue an SMT prescaler to the board upside down in the footprint where the MB506 goes, and then connect the dead bug with little wires to the MB506 connections. Rick Karlquist N6RK Didier Juges wrote: The HP 5334A or B with the C channel option has a sensitivity spec of -30dBm (from memory) up to 1 GHz or so. The C channel has 15mV rms sensitivity at 1 GHz. The C channel option is rare, but it only requires 3 parts (a diviser and two dual-shottkys) and a connector (and a hole in the front panel) to add it to a 5334B for instance. I have two 5334Bs (one is broken) and both have the other parts required for the C channel except for these three. There is a socket for the diviser, the shottkys have to be soldered in. The C channel input is activated on pressing the '9' key. Unfortunately, the MB506 diviser (Fujitsu) seems a little hard to find. If anyone has a spare, let me know. A surface mount equivalent should not be too hard to put in. The HP 5316 has similar characteristics and also has a 1 GHz option, which is also rare. I also have an Advantest TR5823 counter which has the 1.3 GHz input with 20mV rms sensitivity at 1.3 GHz. The HP models have reciprocal counting, so they work MUCH better for low frequency signals. Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Christophe Deschamps Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:49 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Which HP Frequency Counter? Dear group, I consider buying a used lab frequency counter / timer --preferably HP/Agilent-- covering from few mHz to perhaps 400 MHz. I'm worried that models handling high frequencies seem to be limited to under 100 mV input signal max. I don't want to destroy an input channel each other day when calibrating/repairing some instrument. Also are there instruments with high impedance input? 50 Ohm is not quite right for investigation in the guts of most designs. Is it possible to find a not-too-old model under $800? I would like to find something in France or UK or Europe, but it seems hopeless in this budget. I would favor a repairable model (with available service docs schematics). Your expert advises are more than welcome! -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
David, On the site http://gpskit.nl/, in the downloads directory, you can find a lot of info on the Rockwell Jupiter board. I know the info you are looking for is in there somewhere. Best regards, Tom On Thursday 20 March 2008 14:33, David Carr wrote: I have a Jupiter based receiver that is not one of the standard modules. I'd like to see if I can get a 10KHz output from it, but I don't know which pin of the 144 possible options to look at. Would someone with a Jupiter board trace the connection from the 10 KHz output back to the pin on the chip it originates from? That would be a huge help. I suspect that you'll find it ends up on the chip labeled 11577-11. Thanks for your time, David Carr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
Tom, Thanks for your reply. I looked through the documents on that page but unfortunately I don't think any quite address my question. I think they'd have to have a schematic of the board itself to do that. If someone would just stick a multimeter probe on the 10 KHz connection of their module and then trace that signal back to the IC, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, David Carr On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:48:07 +0100, ScopeFreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, On the site http://gpskit.nl/, in the downloads directory, you can find a lot of info on the Rockwell Jupiter board. I know the info you are looking for is in there somewhere. Best regards, Tom On Thursday 20 March 2008 14:33, David Carr wrote: I have a Jupiter based receiver that is not one of the standard modules. I'd like to see if I can get a 10KHz output from it, but I don't know which pin of the 144 possible options to look at. Would someone with a Jupiter board trace the connection from the 10 KHz output back to the pin on the chip it originates from? That would be a huge help. I suspect that you'll find it ends up on the chip labeled 11577-11. Thanks for your time, David Carr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Jupiter Receiver
Just thought this would help. Bruce W1GBS Table 4. Jupiter Receiver Standard 2x10 Pin Field OEM Interface Connector Pinout PIN NAME DESCRIPTION PIN NAME DESCRIPTION 1 PREAMP Preamp power input 11 SDO1 Serial data output port #1 2 PWRIN_5 Primary +5 VDC power input 12 SDI1 Serial data input port #1 3 VBATT Battery backup voltage input 13 GND Ground 4 N/C Reserved (no connect) 14 N/C Reserved (no connect) 5 M_RST Master reset input (active low) 15 SDI2 Serial data input port #2 6 N/C Reserved (no connect) 16 GND Ground 7 GPIO2 NMEA protocol select 17 GND Ground 8 GPIO3 ROM default select 18 GND Ground 9 GPIO4 Reserved (no connect) 19 TMARK 1PPS time mark output 10 GND Ground 20 10KHZ 10 KHz clock output ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
At 08:33 AM 3/20/2008 , David Carr wrote: I have a Jupiter based receiver that is not one of the standard modules. I'd like to see if I can get a 10KHz output from it, but I don't know which pin of the 144 possible options to look at. Would someone with a Jupiter board trace the connection from the 10 KHz output back to the pin on the chip it originates from? That would be a huge help. I suspect that you'll find it ends up on the chip labeled 11577-11. Was this the same chip used in the Delorme Earthmate receiver? If so, I seem to recall adding the 1Hz and 10kHz output to mine. Maybe I can find it and ID the pin for you. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
David, If I hold my Jupiter in the position where the connector is on the left and the 11577-11 is facing me then the 10kHz is on pin 20 of the connector (top right) and this pin is connected to pin 13 counting from the top right-hand-side of the IC. In some ugly ascii graphics: -- | Jupiter board | o o=Pin20 - top | o o | o | 1 | o o | | 2 | o o | | | o o | 11577-11| 13=10kHz | I can only hope this is readable in your mail program ;-) Let me know if this comes out OK. If not I will do some photoshopping :-) Tom ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
David Carr wrote: I have a Jupiter based receiver that is not one of the standard modules. I'd like to see if I can get a 10KHz output from it, but I don't know which pin of the 144 possible options to look at. Would someone with a Jupiter board trace the connection from the 10 KHz output back to the pin on the chip it originates from? That would be a huge help. I suspect that you'll find it ends up on the chip labeled 11577-11. Thanks for your time, David Carr David On the TU30-D165 version of the Jupiter the relevant pin appears to be the 13th pin up from the bottom on the LHS of the large chip in the attached drawing. Bruce inline: Jupiter.png___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
David, I can confirm. I measured it on a TU30-D140 and its on the same pin. Bruce's graphic is rotated 180' compared to my ascii graphic. Tom David On the TU30-D165 version of the Jupiter the relevant pin appears to be the 13th pin up from the bottom on the LHS of the large chip in the attached drawing. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NI GPIB cards
This group seems to be very GPIB savvy, so I have a question (vaguely related to time and frequency) - is there a real difference between the half sized current one large chip NI PCI-GPIB card and the older and larger version with multiple chips that proceeded it ? Which would you buy on Ebay ? any gotchas ? This is of course among other things for use with John Miles software... and HP and Racal counters and so forth... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NI GPIB cards
It is always hard to tell with NI because they are so mumm about their designs. If the new card works with old drivers (most will), it is probably a repackaged version of the old card with more of the stuff in a gate array or xPLD instead of discretes. If it requires (or recommends) a new driver, it may be improved with regard to transfer rate or some obscure feature. Other than that, in my experience, NI products have been remarkably compatible in the last 10 years, from a 30,000 feet level (plug pretty much anything into anything and it will work with any NI software, even though performance will vary and you may need new drivers). Exceptions are things like the bus snooping mode (forgot the name) which is only supported on the internal, bus type adapters (not USB unfortunately). Unless you need very fast transfer rate, buy the cheapest card you can find that has the right bus. PCI cards are still fairly expensive (you will be lucky to get one for less than $150), ISA cards are much cheaper ($20), but of course they only work in a computer old enough to have ISA slots, and transfer rate is an order of magnitude slower. NI USB controllers, even on eBay, cost $400 in most cases. There are alternatives. Measurement Computing (www.mcc.com) has cards that will work with NI software and are somewhat less expensive. IOTech also used to make GPIB cards, but I believe they are out of the market. They still are ISA IOTech cards on eBay on occasion, and they usually are compatible with NI. I do not know if IOTech ever made PCI cards? To use with John Miles software, a Prologix controller is hard to beat. New, it costs less than a used NI PCI card on ebay, and is USB. http://www.eds-fl.com/Test_Equipment/GPIB.html Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David I. Emery Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:13 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] NI GPIB cards This group seems to be very GPIB savvy, so I have a question (vaguely related to time and frequency) - is there a real difference between the half sized current one large chip NI PCI-GPIB card and the older and larger version with multiple chips that proceeded it ? Which would you buy on Ebay ? any gotchas ? This is of course among other things for use with John Miles software... and HP and Racal counters and so forth... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS 10 KHz pin
Tom and Bruce, Thanks for probing out this line for me. You two are indeed correct, as I found a nice looking 10 kHz signal on the pin you identified. My GPS is a TravRoute CoPilot serial hockey puck which happens to have a Jupiter chipset (FW 1.83 1997). I thought that this GPS (my first) was about done, but I think its found some new life... Thanks, David Carr On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:22:23 +0100, ScopeFreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, I can confirm. I measured it on a TU30-D140 and its on the same pin. Bruce's graphic is rotated 180' compared to my ascii graphic. Tom David On the TU30-D165 version of the Jupiter the relevant pin appears to be the 13th pin up from the bottom on the LHS of the large chip in the attached drawing. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
