Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners
I have two 1992, and actually one has to terminate the output to see the real waveform. They have both the 04E option, that I believe is a nice one. In long term measurements, I've found that mine have an aging rate in the range of 1x10E-10 per day, or better (compared to Rb). The crystal is cut to 5 MHz, then doubled. The time required to stabilize after power on is normal. Antonio I8IOV My 1992 has a similarly ugly reference output - until I terminate it. Then it's a fairly nice square wave between 0 and 1 volt. Rise fall times are in the range of 5 ns. The manual doesn't state what the wave shape is, only that it's 600 mVp-p into 50 ohms. I have a brochure that says TTL levels giving approx. 1Vp-p into 50 ohms. My phase measurements also have a similar amount of 'noise' to yours. Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed John Green wrote: Just acquired a used 1992 off eBay. Excellent, almost like new with manual and even spare fuses. I noticed that the internal reference's waveform is more like a nasty sawtooth than a nice sine wave. Is that normal? Also, when I hook my GPSDO through a two way splitter and two different length cables and measure phase, I get a +\- 3 LSD ambiguity. Is that about right? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt temperature Control ad-hoc IO from Windows.
Just some general info on the subject of ad-hoc/experimental IO from within the Windows environment. I personally think, that if you want to keep a T'Bolt at a constant temp, it's best done with an independent control system (hardware or software) than any attached PC. In the long term anyway. However, to prove the point, and for general experimental messing and fiddling... Take a look at INPOUT32.DLL http://logix4u.net/Legacy_Ports/Parallel_Port/Inpout32.dll_for_Windows_9 8/2000/NT/XP.html It allows you to have almost direct control of any IO space port the system has. Common targets for this are otherwise unused LPT ports, but it has to be a Real hardware port, not a USBLPT device. (You can still send control bytes to those via the OS though, and read the status likewise, but the delays can be a pain!) It will pass through commands and data if running on a Win9X system, or install a Kernel mode driver on a NT (2k, XP, etc) system. You can use just about any common programming language to drive it, so long as can call external DLL routines and pass data to, and receive it back from such routines. There is a Huge amount of info on t'interweb, about how to use the venerable LPT port for general purpose digital IO. Otherwise, take a look at any of the USBDigital IO experimental kits that abound the web. In this case, if the T'Bolt can report it's internal temperature over RS232 as you describe, then using a serial port, with one or more of the handshake lines re purposed to control the heater/cooler should do the job, you just need to get a bit creative. Though many Windows based SW development languages are poor in their handling for COM ports, it is possible, and once you have the grasp of how to directly manipulate the port via the OS, things like that work very well. (Some versions of VB though have some interesting Features in the way they handle the serial port, that can really annoy you, just to make it difficult to send/receive binary data. ASCII OK, Binary seems to get some bytes filtered out!) DO NOT try to command IO ports directly on NT systems from your own code. They will at best object with a popup, at worst crash with a BSOD, or just reboot on you unexpectedly! You will need something like INPOUT32.DLL (or other similar tools.) Even then, sometimes unless you tell the OS you are going to use the port, there can still be trouble. Best with COM ports, to go via the OS, at least it'll be aware of what you are doing, so should prevent any other app from trying to grab it. I recently implemented a 4bit IO control bus via the LPT port, to interface to an old ICOM HF receiver to a much newer control system. It works well, and is stable for weeks/months at a time... It even survives a reboot without screwing up, and it doesn't just sit there dormant all the time, as it is controlled and polled repeatedly from another program, with the inter-program communication via some virtual com ports courtesy of Eterlogic's VSPE tool. http://www.eterlogic.com/Products.VSPE.html or N8VB's virtual null modem. http://www.philcovington.com/SDR.html Scroll down to Open Source Software. I have used MarshallSoft's serial IO library (WSC at http://www.marshallsoft.com/ not free, but very good value and stable) with both Real and USBRS232. You can't tell the difference for most purposes, but avoid Belkin adapters. They seem to have some interesting omissions in some of their USB drivers! FTDI seem to be about the best chipsets to use, and the documentation is excellent from FTDI's website. http://www.ftdichip.com/ There are also USB Parallel IO chipsets too. I've yet to need to explore them With both real or USBRS232 ports, with the Marshallsoft library (and with my own native Win/Delphi code) I have had simultaneous serial IO, and used the DTR/RTS lines as power and control lines for a hardware interface, swapping them over +-/-+ to control TX/RX on a radio as well. No problems. In some ways, once you have all the needed code baggage in place, it's easier in Windows to do that sort of stuff, than it ever was with DOS. It just eats more memory to do so. (But looks nice!) Oh yes.. Also, since Win2k SP3 (I think) MS disabled by default any low level (DOS mode) access to the COM ports. There is a registry tweak that can re-enable such things but I've lost sight of it, as when we got hit by that at work, I bit the bullet and learnt how to program in Windows with Delphi, and re-wrote many of our tools and utilities (originally written for DOS in QuickBasic) for Windows. It was painful, but well worth it in the long term. Don't let MS's latest bloatware OS's put you off from experimenting with IO on modern PC's. If anything, with the later GUI OS's and some good (sadly not all dev' tools are good, paid for or otherwise) SW development tools, you can still take over the world in odd ways, as you wish. Ulrich's EZGPIB tool, also has easy serial port handling (mind you, I've not
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992
Ed Palmer wrote:Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed, Exactly which reference I have seems to be something of a mystery. The part number on it is 454879. The part number listed in my manual is 404386. My manual makes no reference to optional timebases. The manual I downloaded does but doesn't list the part number I have as a choice. Though it is ovenized, I don't believe it is the best high stability type. It does look pretty good in general terms. Retrace is important to me and it seems pretty good in this respect. I did try to get it in sync with the GPSDO and after several minor adjustments and several hours of observation, I still saw movement. This isn't that important as I can always use the GPSDO as a standard. I did find out why it doesn't output a sine wave. There is a nice sine wave out of the oscillator itself but that goes through a conditioning amplifier and into IC39 which is some kind of 40 pin device. IC39 actually feeds the back panel BNC. Why they do this is beyond me but it answers the question. I haven't looked at how it behaves coming out of standby yet. I'll let you know when I have done that. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992
John Green wrote: Ed Palmer wrote:Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed, Exactly which reference I have seems to be something of a mystery. The part number on it is 454879. The part number listed in my manual is 404386. My manual makes no reference to optional timebases. The manual I downloaded does but doesn't list the part number I have as a choice. Though it is ovenized, I don't believe it is the best high stability type. It does look pretty good in general terms. Retrace is important to me and it seems pretty good in this respect. I did try to get it in sync with the GPSDO and after several minor adjustments and several hours of observation, I still saw movement. This isn't that important as I can always use the GPSDO as a standard. I did find out why it doesn't output a sine wave. There is a nice sine wave out of the oscillator itself but that goes through a conditioning amplifier and into IC39 which is some kind of 40 pin device. IC39 actually feeds the back panel BNC. Why they do this is beyond me but it answers the question. I haven't looked at how it behaves coming out of standby yet. I'll let you know when I have done that. Yes, they seem to have made a few oscillator substitutions along the way. I'm guessing that they outsourced the oscillators and changed suppliers a few times during the life of the 1991/1992 product. I have two units, one labelled as having 04A and the other having 04E. Pulling info from various manuals, data sheets, and my units, I think the info is as follows: Option Osc. Part # Physical Description - based on my oscillators only 04A 9444* or 11-1710 Approx. cube 5 cm., only one adjustment 04B 9423 Don't know - haven't seen one of these 04E 9462* or 404386 or 454879* Approx 5x5x10cm., two adjustments * these are the markings on my oscillators. The 04E oscillator is actually labelled 9462 454879, Rev. A ERC 87-34. Both of my oscillators are 5 MHz with freq. doubler boards attached to the bottom. IC39 is one of the Magic happens here chips in these units. One of my units died shortly after I got it. IC39 didn't let the magic smoke out, but it was running at a temperature of ~90C! IC39 in the other unit was running at ~60C. I decided to put a heat sink on it just in case. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992
Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net To: Time Nuts Mailing List time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 John Green wrote: Ed Palmer wrote:Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed, Exactly which reference I have seems to be something of a mystery. The part number on it is 454879. The part number listed in my manual is 404386. My manual makes no reference to optional timebases. The manual I downloaded does but doesn't list the part number I have as a choice. Though it is ovenized, I don't believe it is the best high stability type. It does look pretty good in general terms. Retrace is important to me and it seems pretty good in this respect. I did try to get it in sync with the GPSDO and after several minor adjustments and several hours of observation, I still saw movement. This isn't that important as I can always use the GPSDO as a standard. I did find out why it doesn't output a sine wave. There is a nice sine wave out of the oscillator itself but that goes through a conditioning amplifier and into IC39 which is some kind of 40 pin device. IC39 actually feeds the back panel BNC. Why they do this is beyond me but it answers the question. I haven't looked at how it behaves coming out of standby yet. I'll let you know when I have done that. Yes, they seem to have made a few oscillator substitutions along the way. I'm guessing that they outsourced the oscillators and changed suppliers a few times during the life of the 1991/1992 product. I have two units, one labelled as having 04A and the other having 04E. Pulling info from various manuals, data sheets, and my units, I think the info is as follows: Option Osc. Part # Physical Description - based on my oscillators only 04A 9444* or 11-1710 Approx. cube 5 cm., only one adjustment 04B 9423 Don't know - haven't seen one of these 04E 9462* or 404386 or 454879* Approx 5x5x10cm., two adjustments * these are the markings on my oscillators. The 04E oscillator is actually labelled 9462 454879, Rev. A ERC 87-34. Both of my oscillators are 5 MHz with freq. doubler boards attached to the bottom. IC39 is one of the Magic happens here chips in these units. One of my units died shortly after I got it. IC39 didn't let the magic smoke out, but it was running at a temperature of ~90C! IC39 in the other unit was running at ~60C. I decided to put a heat sink on it just in case. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners
-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners Thanks for the info Antonio. Racal didn't spec the warmup characteristics of the counter as a whole and it seemed a little odd that the warmup drift for the counter was as large as 10 days of oscillator drift. Ed Intuitively, this wouldn't surprise me. You set the OCXO up so that the temperature is somewhat higher than the highest expected ambient (so, say, it's at 60C) and pick a crystal that has a flat freq/temp characteristic near there. So, when you turn on, your crystal is at, say, 25C, where the slope of the freq/temp curve is pretty steep. I'll bet someone has some curves out there that could give a quick order of magnitude estimate... I have a poor quality chart here that shows an AT cut with about 40 ppm change for a 50 degree C change, and an SC changes about 5 ppm over the same span. Since a decent oscillator has aging of small ppm/year, that's orders of magnitude bigger for the temperature effect. Is this a SC or an AT cut? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992
Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net To: Time Nuts Mailing List time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 John Green wrote: Ed Palmer wrote:Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed, Exactly which reference I have seems to be something of a mystery. The part number on it is 454879. The part number listed in my manual is 404386. My manual makes no reference to optional timebases. The manual I downloaded does but doesn't list the part number I have as a choice. Though it is ovenized, I don't believe it is the best high stability type. It does look pretty good in general terms. Retrace is important to me and it seems pretty good in this respect. I did try to get it in sync with the GPSDO and after several minor adjustments and several hours of observation, I still saw movement. This isn't that important as I can always use the GPSDO as a standard. I did find out why it doesn't output a sine wave. There is a nice sine wave out of the oscillator itself but that goes through a conditioning amplifier and into IC39 which is some kind of 40 pin device. IC39 actually feeds the back panel BNC. Why they do this is beyond me but it answers the question. I haven't looked at how it behaves coming out of standby yet. I'll let you know when I have done that. Yes, they seem to have made a few oscillator substitutions along the way. I'm guessing that they outsourced the oscillators and changed suppliers a few times during the life of the 1991/1992 product. I have two units, one labelled as having 04A and the other having 04E. Pulling info from various manuals, data sheets, and my units, I think the info is as follows: Option Osc. Part # Physical Description - based on my oscillators only 04A 9444* or 11-1710 Approx. cube 5 cm., only one adjustment 04B 9423 Don't know - haven't seen one of these 04E 9462* or 404386 or 454879* Approx 5x5x10cm., two adjustments * these are the markings on my oscillators. The 04E oscillator is actually labelled 9462 454879, Rev. A ERC 87-34. Both of my oscillators are 5 MHz with freq. doubler boards attached to the bottom. IC39 is one of the Magic happens here chips in these units. One of my units died shortly after I got it. IC39 didn't let the magic smoke out, but it was running at a temperature of ~90C! IC39 in the other unit was running at ~60C. I decided to put a heat sink on it just in case. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners
Thanks for the info Antonio. Racal didn't spec the warmup characteristics of the counter as a whole and it seemed a little odd that the warmup drift for the counter was as large as 10 days of oscillator drift. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I have two 1992, and actually one has to terminate the output to see the real waveform. They have both the 04E option, that I believe is a nice one. In long term measurements, I've found that mine have an aging rate in the range of 1x10E-10 per day, or better (compared to Rb). The crystal is cut to 5 MHz, then doubled. The time required to stabilize after power on is normal. Antonio I8IOV My 1992 has a similarly ugly reference output - until I terminate it. Then it's a fairly nice square wave between 0 and 1 volt. Rise fall times are in the range of 5 ns. The manual doesn't state what the wave shape is, only that it's 600 mVp-p into 50 ohms. I have a brochure that says TTL levels giving approx. 1Vp-p into 50 ohms. My phase measurements also have a similar amount of 'noise' to yours. Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed John Green wrote: Just acquired a used 1992 off eBay. Excellent, almost like new with manual and even spare fuses. I noticed that the internal reference's waveform is more like a nasty sawtooth than a nice sine wave. Is that normal? Also, when I hook my GPSDO through a two way splitter and two different length cables and measure phase, I get a +\- 3 LSD ambiguity. Is that about right? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners
I should of added Yes, It's normal for phase measurement to be 3 counts OR anything else depending on the frequency you are measuring. The unit measures Time delay to 1ns, and calculates Phase which can be any number depending on Freq. Use Time interval not phase to see what the noise is. My typical Dana 1992 performance with the good OXCO is: (sample size of ONE) 4 year average aging rate 0.2 e-10 /day (Attached) Day to Day uncertainty around 3 e-10 (same conditions each day, morning at same room temp, reading 1 min after turn-on from standby) Turn on warm-up drift First 15 sec =1e-10, First 1 min = 2 e-10 Warm up 1+ hr about =1e-9 OSC stability throughout the day after 1 hr turn (due to changing line, room temp, etc about 5e-10) Time interval noise measurement of less than 1 ns (no 1 count jitter about 1/2 the time as the delay between signals change). (Using two Square wave inputs from separate low noise sources , the first is 100 Hz the second is 100KHz, so max of 100us delay.) Turn on data above is Always from standby, and When not using the unit, it is always in standby, except for a couple of times per year when power fails. For your ambiguity test to eliminate LOTS of possible external noise sources, try feeding it a single good square wave in the range of 10 Hz to 10MHz, (Rise fall times in the 5ns range) Trigger on common, start slope to positive, stop slop set to neg, Use and the trigger level of each channel to cause fine delay adjustment of + - 5ns between signals. Mine has noise mostly under 1 ns count. i.e can adj the trigger level so jitter is less than or equal to 1ns. I have not looked at OSC out for a long time, most data above is from measuring the 10 sec freq average of a 10MHz. GPS tracked Osc ws *** From: iov...@inwind.it I have two 1992, and actually one has to terminate the output to see the real waveform. They have both the 04E option, that I believe is a nice one. In long term measurements, I've found that mine have an aging rate in the range of 1x10E-10 per day, or better (compared to Rb). The crystal is cut to 5 MHz, then doubled. The time required to stabilize after power on is normal. Antonio I8IOV *** My 1992 has a similarly ugly reference output - until I terminate it. Then it's a fairly nice square wave between 0 and 1 volt. Rise fall times are in the range of 5 ns. The manual doesn't state what the wave shape is, only that it's 600 mVp-p into 50 ohms. I have a brochure that says TTL levels giving approx. 1Vp-p into 50 ohms. My phase measurements also have a similar amount of 'noise' to yours. Which timebase does yours have? I've got option 4E (similar to 4B). Although the timebase appears to be stable, I've noticed that the counter drifts about 5e-9 during warmup, even when the oscillator has been on standby for many days. It takes a couple of hours to settle down. Does yours do anything similar? Ed * John Green wrote: Just acquired a used 1992 off eBay. Excellent, almost like new with manual and even spare fuses. I noticed that the internal reference's waveform is more like a nasty sawtooth than a nice sine wave. Is that normal? Also, when I hook my GPSDO through a two way splitter and two different length cables and measure phase, I get a +\- 3 LSD ambiguity. Is that about right? ___ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 drift after standby
Ed,Mine comes out of standby pretty much where it is going to be. I see from information posted that I seem to have option 4E. Mine doesn't look quite that good compared to GPS. I believe mine is an 02M model though there is nothing on the unit to say so. The manual says the GPIB should be a 401820 but mine is labeled 411820. Maybe a later version. I haven't had time to hook a GPIB controller to it yet. Maybe next week. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] does no one like the Racal-Dana 1998 counter?
I've seen lots of discussion about the 1992 counter over the past year. But I've seen nothing about the 1998 counter, which I have, and it seems to have similar specifications. If you are collecting test equipment for a home lab (ahem), is the 1992 more desirable than the 1998? Does the 1998 suffer from the same front panel button failures? Anyone happen to know where to find a service manual for a 1998? I already have a users manual. Scott ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992
Hi, A year or so back I had an unusual fault on my 1991 (160MHz version of the 1992). After half-an-hour it would lock-up if you changed any settings but was okay if you left it alone. Of course, after a cool-down period, all went well until the next time. Now for some reason I got it into my head that it was the GPIB board giving me grief so I put the 10x scope probe on a buss line going to it from IC18 on the motherboard. Instantly the fault appeared and it then became apparent there wasn't enough poke to run both the counter and the few pF of the scope lead. To cut a long story short, the supply pin was bent under at 90 degrees so the chip was working without any external power, just on internal leakages, until it warmed up. Had it been IC18 - good bye Mr. Chips. Cheers - Joe G3LLV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 drift after standby
In my experience limited to two units, the 04E works very well, and I've been prudent claiming an aging of one part in 10E10 per day. I suggest to check your unit. My reference was Rb (LPRO). They are both 02M. The 02M has a tag on the left side looking from the front. If the tag was lost, there are two holes. 02M uses the military GPIB language (MATE/CIIL), and, as far as I know, doesn't respond to the standard 1992 language. It exists an enanched version of the 04E, that is the 04ES, but AFAIK it was available only in England. At power on, I read 1992 first, then 8572 0404. Antonio I8IOV Ed,Mine comes out of standby pretty much where it is going to be. I see from information posted that I seem to have option 4E. Mine doesn't look quite that good compared to GPS. I believe mine is an 02M model though there is nothing on the unit to say so. The manual says the GPIB should be a 401820 but mine is labeled 411820. Maybe a later version. I haven't had time to hook a GPIB controller to it yet. Maybe next week. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners
Lux, Jim (337C) wrote: -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Couple of questions for Racal 1992 owners Thanks for the info Antonio. Racal didn't spec the warmup characteristics of the counter as a whole and it seemed a little odd that the warmup drift for the counter was as large as 10 days of oscillator drift. Ed Intuitively, this wouldn't surprise me. You set the OCXO up so that the temperature is somewhat higher than the highest expected ambient (so, say, it's at 60C) and pick a crystal that has a flat freq/temp characteristic near there. So, when you turn on, your crystal is at, say, 25C, where the slope of the freq/temp curve is pretty steep. I'll bet someone has some curves out there that could give a quick order of magnitude estimate... I have a poor quality chart here that shows an AT cut with about 40 ppm change for a 50 degree C change, and an SC changes about 5 ppm over the same span. Since a decent oscillator has aging of small ppm/year, that's orders of magnitude bigger for the temperature effect. Is this a SC or an AT cut? I agree with what you've said, but on the 1991/1992 counter, there's a standby function which keeps the oscillator hot, to avoid the issue you've stated above. So the 10 days worth of drift when you turn the counter on is just due to the counter warming up, not the oscillator. The oscillators that I have (opt. 4A and 4E) are both AT crystals. This isn't stated anywhere that I can find, but the frequency at startup is in the range of 20ppm high which is consistent with an AT cut crystal. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 drift after standby
You can switch the mode to standard language instead of MATE/CIIL by changing a jumper inside the counter. 73, Harry - PE1OXP In my experience limited to two units, the 04E works very well, and I've been prudent claiming an aging of one part in 10E10 per day. I suggest to check your unit. My reference was Rb (LPRO). They are both 02M. The 02M has a tag on the left side looking from the front. If the tag was lost, there are two holes. 02M uses the military GPIB language (MATE/CIIL), and, as far as I know, doesn't respond to the standard 1992 language. It exists an enanched version of the 04E, that is the 04ES, but AFAIK it was available only in England. At power on, I read 1992 first, then 8572 0404. Antonio I8IOV Ed,Mine comes out of standby pretty much where it is going to be. I see from information posted that I seem to have option 4E. Mine doesn't look quite that good compared to GPS. I believe mine is an 02M model though there is nothing on the unit to say so. The manual says the GPIB should be a 401820 but mine is labeled 411820. Maybe a later version. I haven't had time to hook a GPIB controller to it yet. Maybe next week. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 drift after standby
Thanks, Harry, I already had got this info from this list, but had trouble locating the jumper. The manuals seemed ambiguous, and I didn't find anyone who actually made the change. May you help? Anyway, now my programs are MATE/CIIL ... Antonio I8IOV You can switch the mode to standard language instead of MATE/CIIL by changing a jumper inside the counter. 73, Harry - PE1OXP ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 drift after standby
Antonio, I will have a look this weekend when I'm back home so I can read the manual and/or open the counter to find the jumper... Harry - PE1OXP Thanks, Harry, I already had got this info from this list, but had trouble locating the jumper. The manuals seemed ambiguous, and I didn't find anyone who actually made the change. May you help? Anyway, now my programs are MATE/CIIL ... Antonio I8IOV You can switch the mode to standard language instead of MATE/CIIL by changing a jumper inside the counter. 73, Harry - PE1OXP ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 1992 power up message
Antonio wrote:At power on, I read 1992 first, then 8572 0404 Mine does the same. I will have to try that jumper. GPIB is bad enough. I have no interest in learning some obscure military format. My manual has info on the MATE format. I believe the online version has all the GPIB commands. I hope to look into that in the next week or so. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 1992 Jumper location
Harry Hindriks wrote: You can switch the mode to standard language instead of MATE/CIIL by changing a jumper inside the counter. There is an option jumper on the GPIB board labeled SK4. I moved the suitcase jumper from the lower position to the upper. Here's hoping that is the correct one. It was the only one I saw. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 1992 Jumper location
I will try next week. Good night, Antonio I8IOV Harry Hindriks wrote: You can switch the mode to standard language instead of MATE/CIIL by changing a jumper inside the counter. There is an option jumper on the GPIB board labeled SK4. I moved the suitcase jumper from the lower position to the upper. Here's hoping that is the correct one. It was the only one I saw. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
Hi Antonio they are used the earlier counters as well as some of the high end receivers, but I am not sure about the 1990 series. Yes these are all 5MHz crystals which was a common standard at the time. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: iov...@inwind.it To: time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992] I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
As far as I can tell, all the 1991/1992 oscillators are 5 MHz. They all have a frequency doubler board attached to the bottom of the oscillator. Some are labelled as 5 MHz, some are labelled as 10 MHz. But they all interface to the counter at 10 MHz. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
The output of all oscillators is 10MHz, 04B an 04E have doublers connected to the 5MHz ocxo (04A? I only have the B and E versions). Part # 04A 11-1710 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 3 x 10^-9 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-3 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 6 minutes. Part # 04B 11-1711 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-6 x 10^-10 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 20 minutes. Part # 04E 404386 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: =5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days. Temperature Stability: =7 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +50C. Line Voltage Stability: =5 x 10^-10 two minutes after a 10% line voltage change. The 04E option is from a later series of the 1992 and has a superior construction than the 04B but the specs show it has an inferior temperature stability. I have various pdfs collected over time if anyone wants them, PM me. 73, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: As far as I can tell, all the 1991/1992 oscillators are 5 MHz. They all have a frequency doubler board attached to the bottom of the oscillator. Some are labelled as 5 MHz, some are labelled as 10 MHz. But they all interface to the counter at 10 MHz. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD A man with one clock knows what time it is; A man with two clocks is never quite sure. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
Hi Steve, I don't know if this is a typo, but one of the copies of the 1991/1992 manual lists the 04E temperature performance as = 7 x 10e-9 over the range of 0C to 50C. i.e. not per degree C. That would be the same as =1.4 e -10 per degree C. Could that explain the apparent contradiction of superior construction and inferior temperature performance? By the way, do you have any details on the superior construction? Ed Steve Rooke wrote: The output of all oscillators is 10MHz, 04B an 04E have doublers connected to the 5MHz ocxo (04A? I only have the B and E versions). Part # 04A 11-1710 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 3 x 10^-9 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-3 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 6 minutes. Part # 04B 11-1711 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-6 x 10^-10 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 20 minutes. Part # 04E 404386 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: =5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days. Temperature Stability: =7 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +50C. Line Voltage Stability: =5 x 10^-10 two minutes after a 10% line voltage change. The 04E option is from a later series of the 1992 and has a superior construction than the 04B but the specs show it has an inferior temperature stability. I have various pdfs collected over time if anyone wants them, PM me. 73, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: As far as I can tell, all the 1991/1992 oscillators are 5 MHz. They all have a frequency doubler board attached to the bottom of the oscillator. Some are labelled as 5 MHz, some are labelled as 10 MHz. But they all interface to the counter at 10 MHz. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
Hi Ed, I agree with you now that I have looked at it and only assumed that it was a typo by Racal, IE. missing out the per deg C but it could be interpreted as you say and that would give it superior temp stability as compared with the 04B. The 04E I have is in a a shiny mirror finish sealed case with the doubler board on the underside. The 04B is in a lightweight aluminium can that is not sealed and you can see the foam insulation up inside of it. There seems to be no protection moisture absorption. If you compared the two side by side you would immediately pick the 04E as being the better ocxo just by the construction, based upon the idea that if someone has put this much engineering into it's construction it must have been designed to perform better. Perhaps a poor way to judge the performance of the item but you understand what I mean. So when I compared the specs of the two ocxos and missed the '/ C', I assumed that the 04B appeared to offer better performance. The two different pdfs which contain details of the 04E both show the temp stability as =7 x 10^-9 over the range 0C to 50C which does translate to =1.4 x 10^-10 / C as you suggest. Well spotted, time to get my eyes checked :-) Cheers, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: Hi Steve, I don't know if this is a typo, but one of the copies of the 1991/1992 manual lists the 04E temperature performance as = 7 x 10e-9 over the range of 0C to 50C. i.e. not per degree C. That would be the same as =1.4 e -10 per degree C. Could that explain the apparent contradiction of superior construction and inferior temperature performance? By the way, do you have any details on the superior construction? Ed Steve Rooke wrote: The output of all oscillators is 10MHz, 04B an 04E have doublers connected to the 5MHz ocxo (04A? I only have the B and E versions). Part # 04A 11-1710 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 3 x 10^-9 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-3 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 6 minutes. Part # 04B 11-1711 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-6 x 10^-10 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 20 minutes. Part # 04E 404386 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: =5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days. Temperature Stability: =7 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +50C. Line Voltage Stability: =5 x 10^-10 two minutes after a 10% line voltage change. The 04E option is from a later series of the 1992 and has a superior construction than the 04B but the specs show it has an inferior temperature stability. I have various pdfs collected over time if anyone wants them, PM me. 73, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: As far as I can tell, all the 1991/1992 oscillators are 5 MHz. They all have a frequency doubler board attached to the bottom of the oscillator. Some are labelled as 5 MHz, some are labelled as 10 MHz. But they all interface to the counter at 10 MHz. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it would be of interest but i have a page from a cat with the comparative specs for those OXCOs Alan G3NYK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD A man with one clock knows what time it is; A man with two clocks is never quite sure. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt temperature Control ad-hoc IO from Windows.
I have used MarshallSoft's serial IO library (WSC at http://www.marshallsoft.com/ not free, but very good value and stable) with both Real and USBRS232. You can't tell the difference for most purposes, but avoid Belkin adapters. They seem to have some interesting omissions in some of their USB drivers! FTDI seem to be about the best chipsets to use, and the documentation is excellent from FTDI's website. http://www.ftdichip.com/ FTDI is the way to go, IMHO. Parallel ports were great back in the day, but even the I/O access code probably won't work on your next PC. On my desktop machine, they don't even pretend to associate the LPT port with its traditional ports. It's useful only with OS printer support. Oh yes.. Also, since Win2k SP3 (I think) MS disabled by default any low level (DOS mode) access to the COM ports. There is a registry tweak that can re-enable such things but I've lost sight of it, as when we got hit by that at work, I bit the bullet and learnt how to program in Windows with Delphi, and re-wrote many of our tools and utilities (originally written for DOS in QuickBasic) for Windows. It was painful, but well worth it in the long term. http://www.beyondlogic.org/porttalk/porttalk.htm will work fine, as far as allowing your Windows app to bit-bang the ports goes. But Bill only knows what it would take to get it working under Vista, and, again, the trend is away from legacy LPT-port compatibility at the hardware level. Don't let MS's latest bloatware OS's put you off from experimenting with IO on modern PC's. Well, in principle, I/O protection is one of those security features that MS would be roundly mocked for lacking, if they hadn't implemented it by now. -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ad-hoc IO from Windows.
-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Miles Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt temperature Control ad-hoc IO from Windows. Well, in principle, I/O protection is one of those security features that MS would be roundly mocked for lacking, if they hadn't implemented it by now. Actually, what I'd like to see is a very cheap ($10-20) simple parallel I/O that is USB (or even better Ethernet) compatible. The Labjack at around $100 is close. The $25 DATAQ DI-194RS is the sort of model here.. http://www.dataq.com/products/startkit/di194rs.htm They have a USB version for $50 (DI-148U).. but getting up to there, I'm starting to think that just going to $100 for a better ADC, etc. is nice. This would make doing science projects for kids (and grownups) a lot easier, because getting them in the habit of automated data acquisition, rather than tediously writing numbers in a log, and then transcribing them.. (I note that DATAQ will give a kid a free DI-194RS, if they fill out the app and send them a picture of the project when they are done) (Heck, to be honest, *I'd* give them a free widget, if their cause was worthy) If you need a lot of DAC channels, there's a $50 eval board for an 8 channel 16 bit DAC (LTC2600) from Linear Technology that has a usb interface, but it's emulating a serial port, and you can trivially reverse engineer the protocol. (which is available from LTC in any case).. You're looking for the DTC590 eval board controller, too (which is $125). You dump LTC's drivers, and install FTDI's Virtual Com Port (VCP) drivers. (or devise your own SPI interface to the DAC eval board) The labjack ue9 has Ethernet, but is in the $400/500 price range, as opposed to the U3 at $100 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
Steve, Yes, I see what you mean about the physical differences. I have the 04A and 04E oscillators. The 04B sounds similar to the 04A. For others who may be interested, there are three of the 04E oscillators at the auction site that we love to hate. :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/Time-Base-Oven-10Mhz-Accurate-SDR1000-Works_W0QQitemZ300270972010 http://cgi.ebay.com/RACAL-DANA-9462-5MHZ-OVEN-FOR-1992-COUNTER_W0QQitemZ270363145318 The pictures show an oscillator that would look at home beside one from Wenzel, Greenray, CTS, etc. at least in a beauty show. :-) Ed Steve Rooke wrote: Hi Ed, I agree with you now that I have looked at it and only assumed that it was a typo by Racal, IE. missing out the per deg C but it could be interpreted as you say and that would give it superior temp stability as compared with the 04B. The 04E I have is in a a shiny mirror finish sealed case with the doubler board on the underside. The 04B is in a lightweight aluminium can that is not sealed and you can see the foam insulation up inside of it. There seems to be no protection moisture absorption. If you compared the two side by side you would immediately pick the 04E as being the better ocxo just by the construction, based upon the idea that if someone has put this much engineering into it's construction it must have been designed to perform better. Perhaps a poor way to judge the performance of the item but you understand what I mean. So when I compared the specs of the two ocxos and missed the '/ C', I assumed that the 04B appeared to offer better performance. The two different pdfs which contain details of the 04E both show the temp stability as =7 x 10^-9 over the range 0C to 50C which does translate to =1.4 x 10^-10 / C as you suggest. Well spotted, time to get my eyes checked :-) Cheers, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: Hi Steve, I don't know if this is a typo, but one of the copies of the 1991/1992 manual lists the 04E temperature performance as = 7 x 10e-9 over the range of 0C to 50C. i.e. not per degree C. That would be the same as =1.4 e -10 per degree C. Could that explain the apparent contradiction of superior construction and inferior temperature performance? By the way, do you have any details on the superior construction? Ed Steve Rooke wrote: The output of all oscillators is 10MHz, 04B an 04E have doublers connected to the 5MHz ocxo (04A? I only have the B and E versions). Part # 04A 11-1710 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 3 x 10^-9 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-3 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 6 minutes. Part # 04B 11-1711 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: 5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days after 3 months continuous operation. Temperature Stability: +-6 x 10^-10 / C averaged over range 0 to +45C (operable to +50C). Warm Up: Typically +-1 x 10^-7 within 20 minutes. Part # 04E 404386 Frequency: 10MHz Aging Rate: =5 x 10^-10 / day averaged over 10 days. Temperature Stability: =7 x 10^-9 / C averaged over range 0 to +50C. Line Voltage Stability: =5 x 10^-10 two minutes after a 10% line voltage change. The 04E option is from a later series of the 1992 and has a superior construction than the 04B but the specs show it has an inferior temperature stability. I have various pdfs collected over time if anyone wants them, PM me. 73, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: As far as I can tell, all the 1991/1992 oscillators are 5 MHz. They all have a frequency doubler board attached to the bottom of the oscillator. Some are labelled as 5 MHz, some are labelled as 10 MHz. But they all interface to the counter at 10 MHz. Ed iov...@inwind.it wrote: I think this series is not the one used on 1992, but on racal receivers and exciters. I have some, and they look different. They have a 5 MHz output, while the 04E is rated at 10 MHz, even if the crystal is cut for 5 MHz. Antonio I8IOV Hi Alan, Small attachments seem to be okay. Let's find out! :-) I didn't realize that there was a whole family of 9400 series oscillators. Unfortunately, your sheet doesn't include the part numbers that the 1991/1992 documentation includes although there are some family similarities. Still, it's good info to have. Thanks, Ed Original Message Ed off list as I suspect the list wont accept attachments Best wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 1992 Hi Alan, I have the same info, but it's collected from multiple sources. I haven't seen all of it in one official source. I'd like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. Ed Alan Melia wrote: Hi Ed I dont know whther it
Re: [time-nuts] does no one like the Racal-Dana 1998 counter?
Don't know; I have an RD 1996 that is my main counter. No complaints at all. -Dave - Original Message - From: Scott Burris slbur...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:19:54 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: [time-nuts] does no one like the Racal-Dana 1998 counter? I've seen lots of discussion about the 1992 counter over the past year. But I've seen nothing about the 1998 counter, which I have, and it seems to have similar specifications. If you are collecting test equipment for a home lab (ahem), is the 1992 more desirable than the 1998? Does the 1998 suffer from the same front panel button failures? Anyone happen to know where to find a service manual for a 1998? I already have a users manual. Scott ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5061A with Monitor Output and Alarm Output
I recently acquired a 5061A (with a digital LED clock) reportedly in non-operating condition that has two additional connectors on the back labeled 'Monitor Output' and 'Alarm Output'. In addition, there is a printed circuit card about 3/4 as long as the A17 board and sitting on top of the A17 board with the part number 05061-91329. It connects with numerous wires to these two connectors. The 05061-91329 board seems to take many of the outputs from the A17 board that would ordinarily go to the Circuit Check meter. For what ever reason, the Circuit Check gives very different readings from what I am used to seeing. For instance, in the 100 KHz position, the reading is zero but when the wire from the A6 assembly with the output measure of the 100 KHz signal is disconnected, the meter reads about -45. All the outputs (5 MHz, 1 MHz, and 100 KHz) are appropriate and on frequency. The Circuit Check seems to read correctly on Supply, Ion Pump, and Osc Oven. I am letting the tube pump down and I have not had a chance to do anything else. Does anyone have any information on this modification and what it might be used for? Thanks, Joe ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
