Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
Hi The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. Bob On Feb 9, 2011, at 7:40 PM, John Miles wrote: Here is a simple question: Why should I try to get an HP 5372A (or 5371A)? What are the benefits over the 5370A? Worth spending? The 5370A/B is nice because its one-shot resolution is better than any other HP/Agilent counter, prior to the release of the 532xxA models a few months ago. Also, you can hit the power switch and be making measurements five seconds later -- no CRT to warm up, no menus to navigate, no persistent modes to enable/disable. Likewise its input coupling, level, and offset controls are easier to deal with. Its fan is much quieter than the 5372A's, so you can leave it running for weeks if necessary without getting tired of listening to it. The 5371/5372 has a lot of bells and whistles that the 5370 lacks, but these features belong on a host PC anyway, for the most part. In short, I like the 5370 a lot. You should get a 5371A/5372A if you need it to do something specific that you can't accomplish with a 5370. Otherwise I don't think it rises to the level of You gotta have one of these! The biggest limitation of the 5372A is that you can only make 8191 frequency measurements or 4095 time interval measurements with each measurement lasting no longer than 8 seconds. If you want to use it for making more or longer measurements (e.g. long term Allan Deviation measurements) you have to start doing some GPIB programming, but I think you lose the no-dead-time advantage. The 537x counters are best operated in TI mode, not frequency mode. None of them has any dead time in single-shot TI mode and (at least in the 5370's case) the TI resolution is also somewhat better. This often requires an external frequency divider for the START input, of course. We really do need a simple app to extend the 5371 and 5372 for longer time ranges. If there's one out there, I've certainly missed it as I've looked around. The current TimeLab beta has some basic 5371/5372 acquisition support (http://www.ke5fx.com/timelab/setup.exe) in addition to the 5370 driver that's always been there. The 537x driver source code is included in case it's useful to anyone else writing custom software. The main limitations of the 537x TimeLab drivers are the lack of support for FFT and histogram views of data acquired from TI counters in general, which is a limitation of the program itself that may be addressed at some point, and lack of support for fast binary transfers and host-based TI averaging. I don't plan to spend much more time on the 537x-specific drivers, but (well-tested) patches are always welcome. -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
In message 539fb2cd-a764-4825-8932-970d4253b...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. My guess: The realized that GPIB was to slow for much of that, and decided to the that stuff on the VXI bus instead... But that reminds me: do we even know how many different software versions there were for these beasts ? Which software versions do people have on their HP537[123]A ? My HP5372A is 2947 (08 Dec 1989) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Atlanta area time-nuts
Now that I'm getting settled in the Atlanta area, I thought it would be interesting to set up a way for local time-nuts to communicate, share resources (calibration parties, anyone?), and perhaps work on some group experiments (anyone interested in creating UTC(ATL)?). So, I've set up time-nuts-...@febo.com as a private mailing list (not visible on the listinfo page, and archives not available to the general public). It's set up to require approval of subscription requests, not out of snobbery but to keep control of spammers and robots. Membership criteria is basically time-nuts within driving distance of Atlanta. If you'd like to subscribe, drop me a private email and I'll add you to the list. John j...@febo.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
I don't understand why you need something like the 537x counters for long-term measurement. The 200 ps resolution of the 5372A gives you a noise floor of about 5e-14 @ 4000 seconds. Something like the Pictic II gives you better resolution at a fraction of the size, heat, noise, and power. Even a Racal-Dana 1992 with it's 1 ns resolution gives you 2.5 e-13 @ 4000 seconds and it gets better as Tau increases. Am I missing something? Ed Bob Camp wrote: Hi The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
My 5372A is firmware version 3127 [12 July 1991] e/w option 040. Serial number prefix is 3301. Ed Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 539fb2cd-a764-4825-8932-970d4253b...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. My guess: The realized that GPIB was to slow for much of that, and decided to the that stuff on the VXI bus instead... But that reminds me: do we even know how many different software versions there were for these beasts ? Which software versions do people have on their HP537[123]A ? My HP5372A is 2947 (08 Dec 1989) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FCC crackdown on GPS jammers
John wrote: I had thought of building a very small one to jam the gps in my cellphone so ATT couldn't tell where I was. But, I believe they use a time difference of arrival system. Verizon, on the other hand does use an embedded GPS for E911 purposes. The carriers used to use triangulation from multiple cell towers to determine position, but I thought the FCC required greater accuracy and mandated GPS (either explicitly or practically) in the E911 rules. I could be mistaken. I think the GPS-based systems fall back on triangulation if there is no GPS info from the handset, so the carrier still knows where you are with reasonable accuracy most of the time. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Calculate spectral content from a series of zero crossing time stamps?
On 10/02/11 06:13, jimlux wrote: On 2/9/11 2:08 PM, Tijd Dingen wrote: The autocorrelation processing is O(N^2) while the DFT can be done in O(N log N) when using FFT. As usual these can be implemented in reversed order such that first the FFT is done to the phase jitter and auto-correlation can be found using O(N) post-processing. If it can be done in N log N that would be nice. :) autocorrelation: FFT of input sequence, multiply each bin by itself, inverse FFT So N(2logN+1) operations Eh, no. In this case we wanted the frequency form, so no inverse FFT. You forgot to keep an eye on the big picture. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
Ed, On 10/02/11 00:00, Ed Palmer wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: The Frequency vs. Time view is lovely. The 5372A does calculate ADEV but does not provide ADEV plots. Since they don't specify, I'm assuming that it uses the original, non-overlapping calculation. True? Well... it does care since it is the corner case tau = tau0. It will give you the Allan Variance and Allan Deviation for the time-base you have setup. I was wondering about that. Is that info buried in the programming manual? I haven't gone through the binary programming section hardly at all. Yes, if you dig into it you will realize it. It is very open in this sense. There is also a patent relating to the hardware accelerated histogram functionality. Another approach is to use the Fast Port which taps into the hardware and would allow longer runs. I have not much documentation on it and experience on how it works. Needs to play with it. My unit doesn't have the Fast Port option so that isn't a possibility for me. You'd obviously need some custom hardware to make it happen. More complications. I will play with it. The HP5372A programmers manual is really an inside-out manual where you learn the internal formats and how they are processed for the various views and results. Very open in what it does and how you can duplicate the measurements from binary format. It's a bit confusing initially, but once you spent the time to learn it, it makes sense. There are a few GUI-hacks I would like to have, for longer measurements I would like to have an ETA count-down, but real-time update for certain views would be lovely. I wrote a little GPIB program to automate some measurements. I added an approximate 'percent completed' printout. It really comes in handy. That would be handy. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
Hi They all get better as time increases. 20 ps always beats 200 ps. 200 ps always beats 2 ns. What level you do or don't need at what tau will always be a that depends sort of thing. Pictic's resolution is a that depends thing as well. The idea is to have one gizmo do the whole range of tau's from very short times to very long times. It's tough to do that with other solutions and have zero dead time. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A I don't understand why you need something like the 537x counters for long-term measurement. The 200 ps resolution of the 5372A gives you a noise floor of about 5e-14 @ 4000 seconds. Something like the Pictic II gives you better resolution at a fraction of the size, heat, noise, and power. Even a Racal-Dana 1992 with it's 1 ns resolution gives you 2.5 e-13 @ 4000 seconds and it gets better as Tau increases. Am I missing something? Ed Bob Camp wrote: Hi The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5372A opt 20 - high speed i/o
Even though the manual says not field installable, can one do it ? -pete ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks
To All who have contributed, Your answers have been very informative, and I appreciate the time the people have taken to answer my initial request on the differences between the HP 5372A and 5370A T.I. Counters/Analyzers. The bottom line I get out of this thread is that both are useful to own, with one having a better raw resolution, but the other doing continuous measurements. The 5370A is probably the one to own if you can only afford one piece of HP T.I. equipment and you do GPIB interfacing. Thanks, Bert. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I've dropped the heatsink temp to 69C simply by swapping the side panels (a small step in the right direction). The internal fan makes a fair howl, so a small fan or two will hardly be noticed! The original fan is moving plenty or air, but it's sounding like the bearing is past it's prime. I'll replace it as soon as I can find something suitable (110V fans are a bit thin on the ground around here). Cheers, Ian -- From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A temp Yup various components have been run hot. Like others in this group add a fan to the heat sink. Found a way to route a wire out from the raw 5 volt supply to run a 12 volt fan. Think I took one bolt out of the heat sink to route the wire. Think I added a resistor as I did not need a lot of air to calm the heat sink down. Definitely consider changing really stressed components they can be a bit brown and still be OK. Measure them. Good luck Regards Paul WB8TSL -- From: Don Latham d...@montana.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A temp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement My 5370a's both run hot as heck. I used some cheap small c-clamps and some old heatsinks to increase the area of the hp heatsinks. You can also run an old fan if you have one. I've found that the whole era of Hp equipment runs too darn hot. 3325a, 8656a, etc. etc. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com -- From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A temp To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Hi Gee, a low cost 5370 The nice thing is that even though it runs hot - it's done it for a *long* time. I certainly would not argue against a fan. They are a *very* good idea. However it's not going to turn to dust without one. I would definitely keep it clean and keep the back side open to air. As you have noted - make sure the vent holes are where they should be and unblocked. Stacking 5 or 10 on top of each other likely isn't a good idea either Bob -- From: gbusg gb...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A temp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement I think 61?C might be more typical, so 76?C seems pretty darn hot to me. I would make sure that your fan is running, and is mounted the right direction. (It should be blowing *into* the instrument.) Also make sure that the top instrument cover is installed. (The top cover must be in place so that the internal fan air currents will loop around and pass through vents, including the through-holes in the rear heat sink.) Greg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks
I second that 1000% Now to figure out whats wrong in the two dead 5370Bs. Glad it is them and not the 72A ! On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Bert, VE2ZAZ ve2...@yahoo.ca wrote: To All who have contributed, Your answers have been very informative, and I appreciate the time the people have taken to answer my initial request on the differences between the HP 5372A and 5370A T.I. Counters/Analyzers. The bottom line I get out of this thread is that both are useful to own, with one having a better raw resolution, but the other doing continuous measurements. The 5370A is probably the one to own if you can only afford one piece of HP T.I. equipment and you do GPIB interfacing. Thanks, Bert. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5372A opt 20 - high speed i/o
On 10/02/11 21:57, Pete Lancashire wrote: Even though the manual says not field installable, can one do it ? Yes. :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
Ian, I've dropped the temp and the noise level in my 'lab' by replacing many of the old 110V fans whose bearings are getting on with more modern 'silent' 12V fans that use less power, move more air, and are far quieter than the 110 fans ever were. You can find them from a number of sources online, and while rated at 12Vdc, they run pretty well on anything from 5-15. Bob On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:14 PM, gonzo . cadbl...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I've dropped the heatsink temp to 69C simply by swapping the side panels (a small step in the right direction). The internal fan makes a fair howl, so a small fan or two will hardly be noticed! The original fan is moving plenty or air, but it's sounding like the bearing is past it's prime. I'll replace it as soon as I can find something suitable (110V fans are a bit thin on the ground around here). Cheers, Ian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks
Hi On a variety of levels, yes, the 5370 is the box to get first (and maybe second and third). Checking power supplies and cleaning contacts goes a long way on a 5370. Who knows what to do on a 5371 or 5372. Just finding the service manuals on them is no easy task (yes, I have a copy, not looking for another). Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:24 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks I second that 1000% Now to figure out whats wrong in the two dead 5370Bs. Glad it is them and not the 72A ! On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Bert, VE2ZAZ ve2...@yahoo.ca wrote: To All who have contributed, Your answers have been very informative, and I appreciate the time the people have taken to answer my initial request on the differences between the HP 5372A and 5370A T.I. Counters/Analyzers. The bottom line I get out of this thread is that both are useful to own, with one having a better raw resolution, but the other doing continuous measurements. The 5370A is probably the one to own if you can only afford one piece of HP T.I. equipment and you do GPIB interfacing. Thanks, Bert. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks
I ended up with the 5372A first one of those $50 and forget bids on the E. the $140 shipping is another story. BTW took the bottom of one of the 5370B and about 4 or 5 dehydrated spiders and other insect remains fell out. The smell is mouse urine but there is no evidence of mice. The dog finally gave up trying to 'kill' the 5370B. My guess is what ever was on top of it is the item you don't want to buy. -pete On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi On a variety of levels, yes, the 5370 is the box to get first (and maybe second and third). Checking power supplies and cleaning contacts goes a long way on a 5370. Who knows what to do on a 5371 or 5372. Just finding the service manuals on them is no easy task (yes, I have a copy, not looking for another). Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:24 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A: Thanks I second that 1000% Now to figure out whats wrong in the two dead 5370Bs. Glad it is them and not the 72A ! On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Bert, VE2ZAZ ve2...@yahoo.ca wrote: To All who have contributed, Your answers have been very informative, and I appreciate the time the people have taken to answer my initial request on the differences between the HP 5372A and 5370A T.I. Counters/Analyzers. The bottom line I get out of this thread is that both are useful to own, with one having a better raw resolution, but the other doing continuous measurements. The 5370A is probably the one to own if you can only afford one piece of HP T.I. equipment and you do GPIB interfacing. Thanks, Bert. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A temp
Good point Bob. I was planning to fit a 'like for like' replacement, but there is no need to do so A modern 2.2W 12V fan performs to the same spec as the original 15W 115V fan. (PAPST 8312 vs PAPST 8500d) cheers, Ian From: Bob Bownes bow...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: AANLkTi=mu-xp1pvkt9swzjw2tikmw8fke68juwdr5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ian, I've dropped the temp and the noise level in my 'lab' by replacing many of the old 110V fans whose bearings are getting on with more modern 'silent' 12V fans that use less power, move more air, and are far quieter than the 110 fans ever were. You can find them from a number of sources online, and while rated at 12Vdc, they run pretty well on anything from 5-15. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Greetings! I am a new member of the mail list. I've been using a HP Z3801A GPS-steered standard but have just acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Clock. I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Larry, I favor a linear regulated supply rather than a switching supply. I had a TBolt die while connected to a switching supply in an environment where there were frequent power outages. The +12 VDC current drops significantly after the OCXO warms up, probably down to about 200 mA or so. Good luck. They are neat little devices. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Larry McDavid Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:17 PM To: Timenuts Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply Greetings! I am a new member of the mail list. I've been using a HP Z3801A GPS-steered standard but have just acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Clock. I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3434 - Release Date: 02/10/11 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply. But, I've not found a suitable one yet, in linear or switching. TAPR offered one in the past but has no more. So, I'm asking for recommendations and where to get one. Larry On 2/10/2011 3:32 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: I favor a linear regulated supply rather than a switching supply. I had a TBolt die while connected to a switching supply in an environment where there were frequent power outages. ... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Larry McDavid ... I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Hi Larry, I use a linear supply for mine. My supply is actually a headphone amp supply kit from JayCar Electronics here in Australia. Its basically two LM317's and a 7805 for 5v. I changed the resistor that set the output voltage from 15v to 12v and also selected an appropriate toroid transformer to suit. Links here http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5418CATID=25form=CATSUBCATID=557 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MT2084CATID=19form=CATSUBCATID=539 I dont know if you can get these kits in the US or if JayCar ship internationally, you'd have to ask. I'm sure you could find or build something similar state side :) regards Tim -- VK2XTT :: QF56if :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSAT-VK :: AMSAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A
Hi HP 5371A 2828 dated 08 July 1988 Put another way, no it does not have the free update from ~ 1991. I wonder if HP will drop by and put it in mine I have a strong suspicion the answer is no. Bob -Original Message- From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:04 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A vs. 5370A In message 539fb2cd-a764-4825-8932-970d4253b...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: The 5371 / 5372 are never going to be as popular as the 5370 in terms of people needing support. They just aren't that common. Getting binary dumps into one of the software packages would be very nice. The rest of the stuff is much further down my list. Without a binary dump, you can't do anything that runs over a long period of time. I'm not sure what HP really wanted you to do in that case. They may have planed a PC software package and then not followed through with it. My guess: The realized that GPIB was to slow for much of that, and decided to the that stuff on the VXI bus instead... But that reminds me: do we even know how many different software versions there were for these beasts ? Which software versions do people have on their HP537[123]A ? My HP5372A is 2947 (08 Dec 1989) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Hi I have so many of them that I run them off big lab grade linear supplies. That's not to good for a single unit. The neatest way is to run some low drop out linear regulators off of a switcher. That way you get it all. The tolerances on the supplies are such that an LDO with a hundred mv dropout works with a +/- 12 volt +5 volt switcher. Bob -Original Message- From: Larry McDavid Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:46 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply. But, I've not found a suitable one yet, in linear or switching. TAPR offered one in the past but has no more. So, I'm asking for recommendations and where to get one. Larry On 2/10/2011 3:32 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: I favor a linear regulated supply rather than a switching supply. I had a TBolt die while connected to a switching supply in an environment where there were frequent power outages. ... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Larry McDavid ... I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
Larry-- I use a +12 volt linear supply (an open-frame leftover) with a 7805 for the +5 rail. For -12, I use a 2 watt isolated dc-dc converter (leftover from another project). As others have stated, the +12 rail seems to be the noise sensitive one. 73 bob k6rtm in silicon valley -- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:16:55 -0800 From: Larry McDavid lmcda...@lmceng.com Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply To: Timenuts time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4d5471e7.4050...@lmceng.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Greetings! I am a new member of the mail list. I've been using a HP Z3801A GPS-steered standard but have just acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Clock. I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
I use a 16 Volt Laptop power supply followed by Low Noise LT1764A linear regulator for +12 and a 7805 for the logic. If you want to splurge use a LT1764A also for the +5.. To generate the -12V a Microchip TC962 followed by a 79L12 does a nice job. The +5 and -12 are not that critical. That is a reliable and good low noise supply. I personally have added eight NMH cells for backup and that adds extra circuits but I first started with the basic circuit mentioned above. Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/10/2011 8:23:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, t...@skybase.net writes: Hi Larry, I use a linear supply for mine. My supply is actually a headphone amp supply kit from JayCar Electronics here in Australia. Its basically two LM317's and a 7805 for 5v. I changed the resistor that set the output voltage from 15v to 12v and also selected an appropriate toroid transformer to suit. Links here http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5418CATID=25form=CATSUBCATI D=557 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MT2084CATID=19form=CATSUBCATI D=539 I dont know if you can get these kits in the US or if JayCar ship internationally, you'd have to ask. I'm sure you could find or build something similar state side :) regards Tim -- VK2XTT :: QF56if :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSAT-VK :: AMSAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
Bob Bownes wrote: Ian, I've dropped the temp and the noise level in my 'lab' by replacing many of the old 110V fans whose bearings are getting on with more modern 'silent' 12V fans that use less power, move more air, and are far quieter than the 110 fans ever were. You can find them from a number of sources online, and while rated at 12Vdc, they run pretty well on anything from 5-15. I don't see why changing the operating voltage of the fan would make bearings last longer, move more air, or make less noise, unless it allows the fan to run at a different RPM. Even then, more air and less noise would seem to be mutually exclusive. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
I use a Heathkit IP-2718. It only goes to 500 mA on the +12 supply but when the TBolt is turned on, the current goes off scale for a few minutes, the voltage drops about a volt or half volt, but then all comes back on scale as the OCXO warms up. I think I built one years ago but I found several of these on the 'e' site for only a few bucks. However, a power supply for the TBolt should be very easy to build. My ultimate plan was to buid a box that included 110 VAC and +12 VDC supply that would supply all three voltages. Should be fairly easy to do with a 555 as an oscillator to drive a voltage doubler to make the -12 VDC supply capable of low current. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Larry McDavid Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:46 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply. But, I've not found a suitable one yet, in linear or switching. TAPR offered one in the past but has no more. So, I'm asking for recommendations and where to get one. Larry On 2/10/2011 3:32 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: I favor a linear regulated supply rather than a switching supply. I had a TBolt die while connected to a switching supply in an environment where there were frequent power outages. ... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Larry McDavid ... I'm seeking a recommendation for a power supply for this Thunderbolt receiver. There is much discussion about noise from some switching supplies and the effect on phase noise of the 10 MHz output. The Thunderbolt manual specifies the following supply and loads: +12 vdc 750 mA + 5 vdc 400 mA -12 vdc 10 mA This combination is somewhat unusual in that the highest current is on the 12 volt output rather than the 5 volt output. I'm asking if list members have a favorite power supply for this unit, why and where I can obtain one. ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
rich...@karlquist.com said: I don't see why changing the operating voltage of the fan would make bearings last longer, move more air, or make less noise, unless it allows the fan to run at a different RPM. Even then, more air and less noise would seem to be mutually exclusive. Somewhere in the past 10-20 years, people started paying much more attention to how much noise fans make. For a given amount of air, most modern fans are a lot quieter than old ones. I think one big step is to keep the support bars away from the fan blades and/or make them smaller. There are probably some important details about the fan blade shape that I don't understand. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply
That's odd. I just went to the TAPR.org web site and can still seem to order an LPU kit for around $43 US. I'm using a TAPR/OpenHPSDR LPU to run two Thunderbolts. The LPU is operating on 13.6 volts off the house battery. The -12 volts is switching, the other two voltages are linear. I used to run Thunderbolts off an HP fiber optic multiplexer power supply, but those are probably not too common. Mike - AA8K On 02/10/2011 06:46 PM, Larry McDavid wrote: Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply. But, I've not found a suitable one yet, in linear or switching. TAPR offered one in the past but has no more. So, I'm asking for recommendations and where to get one. Larry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
Not to mention improvements in motor design. The brushless motors have gotten better and the change to lighter plastics has put much less burden on the bearings, which while they might not last as long, sure are a lot quieter. One of the parameters you can use now to select fans is the noise factor for a given cfm. Simply replacing the old, loud fans in 3 or 4 pieces of test gear has really quieted things down for me. As you say, the big changes are in getting more air to move with less turbulence at a lower rpm by changes in blade design. Probably a few former submarine prop designers making money in their retirement. ;) On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: rich...@karlquist.com said: I don't see why changing the operating voltage of the fan would make bearings last longer, move more air, or make less noise, unless it allows the fan to run at a different RPM. Even then, more air and less noise would seem to be mutually exclusive. Somewhere in the past 10-20 years, people started paying much more attention to how much noise fans make. For a given amount of air, most modern fans are a lot quieter than old ones. I think one big step is to keep the support bars away from the fan blades and/or make them smaller. There are probably some important details about the fan blade shape that I don't understand. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
It isn't clear why you need to change to 12V fans. Why not modern 120V fans? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 79, Issue 31
I've not seen 110v fans in 'ultraquiet'. On Feb 10, 2011, at 11:37 PM, Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: It isn't clear why you need to change to 12V fans. Why not modern 120V fans? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
