Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
What more could a time-nut ask for? Except for a sample to experiment with! Nic VK2KXN / VK5ZAT Hi Dan, the CSAC has been discussed here a couple of months ago. I will use your post as a shameless plug of our CSAC GPSDO that we did in cooperation with Symmetricom, as we are now allowed to talk about the product. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
t...@leapsecond.com said: > Either use the PC to timestamp receive buffers, or if you have a 1pps handy, > just feed your 60 Hz signal into one channel (L) and the 1 PPS into the > other (R). If you have a known-good (accurate?) signal going into you audio channel, you can compute the actual clock frequency of the audio capture path. I think the IRIG driver in ntpd does that, and includes the offset in PPM in the log files. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
Time-Nutties, how about using a small uC (PIC/AVR) clocked with 100ns instruction speed. Start = 1PPS from GPS, Stop = 60 Hz Edge? Use internal capture hardware to count processor cycles in between. Send output once per second via FT232(USB) to host PC.. alternatively store locally on SD card.. This could be a tiny add-on card in main-powered GPS setups.. Sorry for not jumping on the soundcard-software approach.. I'm a hardware guy and my programming skills suck.. :) Regards, Achim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
t...@leapsecond.com said: > Realize this is all just for fun. TEC should have zero impact on modern > computer networks. It will be interesting to see how much gear there is out there that derives time keeping from the line frequency. I suspect a lot of it doesn't matter much at the second/minute level. (Who cares if the sprinkler goes on at 6:00 or 6:02?) I suspect there is an assumption that they have to get reset occasionally, maybe on DST changes or when power fail or ... > The last system I worked with that relied on 60 Hz power > for timekeeping was a 70's PDP 11/34. IBM 360s bumped a slot in low memory on each cycle. There was a switch someplace to select bumping by 5 on 60 Hz systems and 6 on 50 Hz. The net result was incrementing by 300 counts per second. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
In message <4e0c35ff.8050...@physik.uzh.ch>, Achim Vollhardt writes: >Time-Nutties, > >how about using a small uC (PIC/AVR) clocked with 100ns instruction >speed. Start = 1PPS from GPS, Stop = 60 Hz Edge? Use internal capture >hardware to count processor cycles in between. If you really want to do this: Sample the mains signal with an ADC at around 1000kHz. Mix it down to baseband, calculate I/Q magnitudes and use ATAN2 to find phase. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
Hi Poul, I would guess the 100ns granularity should be already overkill, giving an error in the order of 1e-7. To be compared with mains instability of >1e-5: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/ I would try to keep it as simple as possible... maybe even only one IC, there exist USB-capable PIC controllers (don't know about AVR, but likely as well). Regards, Achim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 60 Hz data
Tom's suggestion of using a modem control signal is a winner. Here is a graph: http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/60Hz.png Hour 0 is the start of Jun 30 UTC, 5PM PDT. It's gained almost 200 cycles over 9 hours. There are enough wobbles in there that I think the data is good. It will be interesting to see what the rest of a 24 hour slot looks like. I'm in California. Does anybody in the same power grid have data that looks similar? (or different?) Here is the same data plotted as frequency measured over 10 seconds. http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/60Hz-a.png There is a lot of noise. I don't know how much is on the line and how much is jitter in the capture system. (I'll have to think about that tomorrow.) I'm sampling every 10 seconds. If it picked up an extra cycle, the frequency would be 60.1 Hz. There is one data point (about 4 hours) that's in that ballpark. I'm using a wall wart transformer. It's nominally 12V RMS but I measured 16V no load. I used a couple of 1K resistors as a divider. I'm using the Linux PPS stuff. [murray@jim 60Hz]$ cat /sys/class/pps/pps0/assert 1309424354.597978797#2173261 [murray@jim 60Hz]$ and a python hack to write stuff to a log file. Here is a log file if anybody wants to play: http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/pps.20110630 First two columns are MJD and seconds this day copied from NTP's log file format. 3rd column is unix time stamp of most recent event. 4th column is number of events since ??? 5th and 6th columns are delta time/count since the previous line (10 seconds ago). 55742 4.259 1309392004.255156 232038 10.014635601 5574214.270 1309392014.267448 232639 10.012292601 5574224.281 1309392024.279595 233240 10.012146601 5574234.291 1309392034.275325 233840 9.995730600 5574244.298 1309392044.287679 234441 10.012354601 5574254.309 1309392054.299189 235042 10.011509601 The first graph uses columns 2 and 3. The frequency graph uses columns 5 and 6. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz data
In message <20110630093603.850ee800...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>, Hal Mu rray writes: >Here is the same data plotted as frequency measured over 10 seconds. > http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/60Hz-a.png The strong drops in the first approx 15 minutes of the hour indicates valid data. Power plants and power trading are usually scheduled in full hours and therefore during the first 15 minutes of hours things ramp up and down. Because of the assymetry in the frequency/power regulation and the fact that you can shave your margins, plats usually ramp down faster than they ramp up, causing these very recognizable dips. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 60Hz zero-crossing
Hi Pete, That would be me that mentioned opto couplers that have zero crossing capability. Do a google for "zero crossing opto coupler" and you will get a bunch of hits. Then you got to filter all the crap to find the worthwhile stuff. Each have their own particular advantages and disadvantages, so it will take some thought as to use. A number of manufacturers make a variety of opto couplers with different capabilities. Here is the link to one such device, even though this may not be the way to go. http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MO/MOC3063-M.pdf There are many ways to skin the cat and this is just one part. It does require some external parts to use it, as would all opto couplers. BUT, before you get carried away, here is a worthwhile article to read about a descrete circuit. The important thing is to read his description about how the circuit works and why he chose this particular circuit layout. It is quite interesting ! http://www.dextrel.net/diyzerocrosser.htm BillWB6BNQ Pete Lancashire wrote: > Someone mentioned a modern chip for detecting zero crossing. > > I seem to have deleted it > > Anyone have it ? > > -pete > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
saidj...@aol.com wrote: > > the CSAC has been discussed here a couple of months ago. I will use your > post as a shameless plug of our CSAC GPSDO that we did in cooperation with > Symmetricom, as we are now allowed to talk about the product. > http://www.jackson-labs.com/index.php/products/csac That's really neat. You should do a version with an ethernet interface and NTP and IEEE 1588 support :-) Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/ Rockall: West, backing south, 3 or 4, increasing 5 or 6. Moderate or rough. Fair then occasional rain. Moderate or good. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightsquared
Has anyone read this? "The high-precision user is going to be thrown under the bus because we are the most difficult to accommodate (technically) and don’t have a high profile nor are perceived as significant enough to accommodate." http://www.gpsworld.com/survey/lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802? utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS- Design_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared
http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo -may-be-risk-too-11822 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of p...@pseng.org.uk Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:56 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Lightsquared Has anyone read this? "The high-precision user is going to be thrown under the bus because we are the most difficult to accommodate (technically) and don't have a high profile nor are perceived as significant enough to accommodate." http://www.gpsworld.com/survey/lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802? utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS- Design_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
A shameless plug for Time-Nuts. Happy to support field trials and a 80% discount. ;-) Though hard to say even that might be more then I think. Regards and great job. Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Tony Finch wrote: > saidj...@aol.com wrote: > > > > the CSAC has been discussed here a couple of months ago. I will use your > > post as a shameless plug of our CSAC GPSDO that we did in cooperation > with > > Symmetricom, as we are now allowed to talk about the product. > > http://www.jackson-labs.com/index.php/products/csac > > That's really neat. You should do a version with an ethernet interface and > NTP and IEEE 1588 support :-) > > Tony. > -- > f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/ > Rockall: West, backing south, 3 or 4, increasing 5 or 6. Moderate or rough. > Fair then occasional rain. Moderate or good. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
On 6/29/11 9:21 PM, Daniel Schultz wrote: http://nutsvolts.texterity.com/nutsvolts/201107?pg=12&search_term=symmetricom#pg12 http://www.symmetricom.com/products/frequency-references/chip-scale-atomic-clock-csac/SA.45s-CSAC/ SA.45s CSAC An unmatched combination of breakthroughs — in reduced size, weight and power consumption — brings the accuracy and stability of atomic clocks to portable applications. The Symmetricom SA.45s CSAC is the world’s first commercially available chip scale atomic clock, providing the accuracy and stability of atomic clock technology while achieving true breakthroughs in reduced size, weight and power consumption. Jackson Labs also has a CSAC product (at least their ad in GPS World says they do..and I think Said mentioned it on this list) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
At 01:31 PM 6/28/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote: I'm planning on counting 60Hz line cycles with some embedded hardware, then dumping the count over RS-232 every minute or so to a linux box running ntp. Any thoughts on what data to log? Scott, You have a PC and RS232? Skip the embedded hardware. Too late. I lashed it up last night, dumping the cycle count to a linux box at 60 Hz. Now I'm rethinking the 60 Hz logging, as it's rapidly filling up the disk! (This is a Sun Ultra 60, not a PC, running an old and small SCSI drive.) The file format I use is mjd,te. mjd = modified julian date, and te = time error (the cumulative phase error, in seconds). Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? I'm using C here. I think I'll change the logging from 60Hz to 1Hz, at least on the sparc box. -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update
John: I'd run the performance tests from the service manual (available at Agilent.com). You mentioned rear inputs, option 060, and that might be a clue. Option 060 has a 15dB lower sensitivity specification, and in the service manual it specifically states to not use front input when you have rear ones installed (the rear connectors are simply a BNC with a short cable soldered to the board in parallel to the front PCB-mount BNCs). --From the Service Manual--- DO NOT test the front terminals if rear terminals are installed. The front terminal performance is not specified when the rear terminals are installed. If you don't need the rear panel inputs, I'd get rid of them. It seems like an afterthought option HP didn't really consider when designing the counter, not meant for dual inputs, just moving the legal input to the back. Now, 10" of coax as a stub shouldn't hurt you in the low MHz region, so it doesn't explain your issue. Another thing I found out is that the statement I made in my last email, that the 53132A always power up at a factory default state, is only true for firmware revisions 3622 and above. Older revs would apparently save to register 0 the current state before a recall operation - I can see how that led to confusion and was eliminated. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:06 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update HI Jose, Thank you for the ideas. I am using a Tektronix AFG 3102 DDS generator which works up to 100 MHz. The counter firmware version is 3646. I tried sine wave amplitudes between 70 mV and 1V ptp. The waveforms looked good on the oscilloscope. I did notice that the Hi-Z front panel input will attenuate the input signal quite a bit unless I terminate the rear panel inputs in 50 Ohms. I tried different thresholds and gate times and I still get the same behavior. If I flip between 100 MHz and 1MHz 20 times, there will be a delay in updating the 1 MHz measurement about 5 times. I ran each of the self test routines and they all passed. Both low frequency input channels show this behavior, as well as the 12.4 GHz input (input frequency switched between 12 GHz abnd 200 MHz). A coworker suggested that the counter might be slower in updating to a new lower frequency because its interleaves counting edges and would be thrown off if the new edge rate was much slower. The fact that your counter works as expected casts doubt on this possibility. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. John Pease Check your cable, or better yet, look at the input signal with a oscilloscope. Something is fishy (missing return plus AC couple, too low amplitude, etc.). I used a 33250 generator at 50mVrms and tried going from 80MHz down to 1MHz, even 100Hz and it changed the very next gate period every time (one period had partial counts, of course). The 53132A doesn't have the 'green button' that presets it to a known state, but it always powers up in the default state. Your signal might need some special handling - sensitivity, coupling, termination? Finally, if the counter is an 'eBay special', it might be bad. Run self-test and follow confidence tests from service manual. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:07 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Hello, ? My new to me counter has a strange response when I change the input frequency. With the gate set to 1s, I can measure 100 MHz with plenty of digits. Then I change the frequency to 1 MHz and it takes several seconds to almost a minute for the display to change from 100 MHz to 1 MHz. The delay only occurs when I lower the input frequency quite a bit; 100?MHz to 10 MHz changes are displayed within 2 gate times.?When I increase the frequency form 1 MHz to 100 MHz I always get the correct display after two gate times. This delay is proportional to the gate time; the updating is 10 times faster with 0.1 s gate time. ? Is this behavior typical for this counter? ? Thank you ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Scott Newell wrote: > Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? I'm > using C here. If disk space is a problem I'd keep the log in binary format. Better use "zlib" and compress the binary data before it reaches the disk. About converting to MJD look at this http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/mjd.c Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
Hi guys, Thanks much for your feedback, 1588 and ntp sounds intriguing. For now, sntp is supported through GPSCon. Right now the CSAC GPSDO is a little bit on the bleeding edge because the government has waited so long to get theirs and demand is quite high.. That will change in a couple of years. Maybe some day they will show up on eBay like the Thunderbolts now.. Bye, Said Sent from my iPad On Jun 30, 2011, at 6:21, paul swed wrote: > A shameless plug for Time-Nuts. > Happy to support field trials and a 80% discount. ;-) > Though hard to say even that might be more then I think. > Regards and great job. > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Tony Finch wrote: > >> saidj...@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> the CSAC has been discussed here a couple of months ago. I will use your >>> post as a shameless plug of our CSAC GPSDO that we did in cooperation >> with >>> Symmetricom, as we are now allowed to talk about the product. >>> http://www.jackson-labs.com/index.php/products/csac >> >> That's really neat. You should do a version with an ethernet interface and >> NTP and IEEE 1588 support :-) >> >> Tony. >> -- >> f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/ >> Rockall: West, backing south, 3 or 4, increasing 5 or 6. Moderate or rough. >> Fair then occasional rain. Moderate or good. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Achim Vollhardt wrote: > Time-Nutties, > > how about using a small uC (PIC/AVR) clocked with 100ns instruction speed. > Start = 1PPS from GPS, Stop = 60 Hz Edge? Use internal capture hardware to > count processor cycles in between. Recently posted plots show that all you need is an AC wall wart transformer and two resistors. a uC is total overkill The xformer and resistor voltage divider works because by dumb luck the pin in the rs232 port was designed to accept a signal that looks a lot like low voltage AC and even better, already has edge detection built in. Also by dumb luck someone already wrote the software to monitor the pin's status and time stamp transitions. This really is a case of pure luck. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update
Hi The 53132 and 53131 behave oddly when the frequency is dropped. Apparently they do some sort of pre-scaling thing in their firmware. When you drop frequency 100:1 at a 1 second gate time it indeed can take quite a while for it to figure out what's going on. Simple fix - poke the run button when you change frequency. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jose Camara Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:21 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update John: I'd run the performance tests from the service manual (available at Agilent.com). You mentioned rear inputs, option 060, and that might be a clue. Option 060 has a 15dB lower sensitivity specification, and in the service manual it specifically states to not use front input when you have rear ones installed (the rear connectors are simply a BNC with a short cable soldered to the board in parallel to the front PCB-mount BNCs). --From the Service Manual--- DO NOT test the front terminals if rear terminals are installed. The front terminal performance is not specified when the rear terminals are installed. If you don't need the rear panel inputs, I'd get rid of them. It seems like an afterthought option HP didn't really consider when designing the counter, not meant for dual inputs, just moving the legal input to the back. Now, 10" of coax as a stub shouldn't hurt you in the low MHz region, so it doesn't explain your issue. Another thing I found out is that the statement I made in my last email, that the 53132A always power up at a factory default state, is only true for firmware revisions 3622 and above. Older revs would apparently save to register 0 the current state before a recall operation - I can see how that led to confusion and was eliminated. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:06 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update HI Jose, Thank you for the ideas. I am using a Tektronix AFG 3102 DDS generator which works up to 100 MHz. The counter firmware version is 3646. I tried sine wave amplitudes between 70 mV and 1V ptp. The waveforms looked good on the oscilloscope. I did notice that the Hi-Z front panel input will attenuate the input signal quite a bit unless I terminate the rear panel inputs in 50 Ohms. I tried different thresholds and gate times and I still get the same behavior. If I flip between 100 MHz and 1MHz 20 times, there will be a delay in updating the 1 MHz measurement about 5 times. I ran each of the self test routines and they all passed. Both low frequency input channels show this behavior, as well as the 12.4 GHz input (input frequency switched between 12 GHz abnd 200 MHz). A coworker suggested that the counter might be slower in updating to a new lower frequency because its interleaves counting edges and would be thrown off if the new edge rate was much slower. The fact that your counter works as expected casts doubt on this possibility. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. John Pease Check your cable, or better yet, look at the input signal with a oscilloscope. Something is fishy (missing return plus AC couple, too low amplitude, etc.). I used a 33250 generator at 50mVrms and tried going from 80MHz down to 1MHz, even 100Hz and it changed the very next gate period every time (one period had partial counts, of course). The 53132A doesn't have the 'green button' that presets it to a known state, but it always powers up in the default state. Your signal might need some special handling - sensitivity, coupling, termination? Finally, if the counter is an 'eBay special', it might be bad. Run self-test and follow confidence tests from service manual. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:07 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Hello, ? My new to me counter has a strange response when I change the input frequency. With the gate set to 1s, I can measure 100 MHz with plenty of digits. Then I change the frequency to 1 MHz and it takes several seconds to almost a minute for the display to change from 100 MHz to 1 MHz. The delay only occurs when I lower the input frequency quite a bit; 100?MHz to 10 MHz changes are displayed within 2 gate times.?When I increase the frequency form 1 MHz to 100 MHz I always get the correct display after two gate times. This delay is proportional to the gate time; the updating is 10 times faster with 0.1 s gate time. ? Is this behavior typical for this
[time-nuts] Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
How does this compare to Fury in terms of precision? They look very similar to me. The cesium flavor seems to be geared more toward the mobility. I am considering a Fury but would consider the csac if I could get a price close to $1500 complete with enclosure. Any ideas as to what the actual price is on these? Doc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > If you have a known-good (accurate?) signal going into you audio channel, you > can compute the actual clock frequency of the audio capture path. The problem is that it takes a long time to see a small error. If the oscillator in the audio card is not stable then you can't do those long term tests because the results change faster than you can measure them -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo -may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS-Des ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may-be-r isk-too-11822 Seems like no one is safe from this! Rob K ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the best representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow along. It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar. Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, or force it through, over the large sums of money already invested. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote: >http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galile o >-may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS-De s >ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may-be- r >isk-too-11822 > > >Seems like no one is safe from this! > >Rob K > > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of Lightsquared's whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). May their marketer-driven hype rest in peace(es). *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 30-Jun-11 at 18:32 Rob Kimberley wrote: >http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-gali leo >-may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS- Des >ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may-b e-r >isk-too-11822 > > >Seems like no one is safe from this! > >Rob K > > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 6253 (20110630) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
The NLRB / Boeing decision was an obscenity. If it stands, Boeing will move offshore in due time. YMMV, -John = > Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the > best > representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is > ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow along. > It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar. > > Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for > the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the > NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress > is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of > thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, > or > force it through, over the large sums of money already invested. > > Best, > > Will > > *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** > > On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote: > >>http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galile > o >>-may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS-De > s >>ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may-be- > r >>isk-too-11822 >> >> >>Seems like no one is safe from this! >> >>Rob K >> >> >> >> >> >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >> >>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5851 (20110206) __ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Clock on a chip, only $1500
Hi Doc, the CSAC GPSDO is still about 2x the price of Fury. The CSAC Oscillator as a component is priced at $1500 from Symmetricom. This is comparable to the Fury with accessories. The Fury has better short term stability, and better phase noise. It is designed for base-station applications where a loss of GPS signals is not typical. The CSAC GPSDO has lower power, much faster warmup, lower height, and works both in mobile and stationary environments. It is designed for portable applications such as man-pack radios and airborne platforms. It has five isolated frequency outputs. The CSAC GPSDO will maintain phase and frequency accuracy better than the Fury during long holdovers (more than 24 hours). It really depends on your requirements, both units offer specific advantages to different applications. hope that helps, Said In a message dated 6/30/2011 09:36:40 Pacific Daylight Time, docdai...@gmail.com writes: How does this compare to Fury in terms of precision? They look very similar to me. The cesium flavor seems to be geared more toward the mobility. I am considering a Fury but would consider the csac if I could get a price close to $1500 complete with enclosure. Any ideas as to what the actual price is on these? Doc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
They already did, some time ago, at least for much of their engineering. I spent six years with them (and I'm told I did good to last that long), so I speak from (bitter) experience. --They used to make much of their own avionics for flight controls and instrumentation. No more. They sold off their entire electronics division to British Aerospace back around 2000. --They used to make their own PC boards. Nope. Got dumped around the same time. --Wing engineering and design has been done in Russia since around 1999, at least. There are probably stacks of other examples which I've either missed or don't know about, but I will say this much: I think their ultimate plans have always been to move the rest of manufacturing offshore. The NLRB thing is merely one symptom of a much larger disease, one which started (no surprise) just about the same time as McDonnell-Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money. I was laid off at the end of 2002, along with a stack of other folks. Honestly, I have NO regrets. I'll let it go at this since this is, obviously, off-topic for TimeNuts. Happy clocking. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 30-Jun-11 at 10:50 J. Forster wrote: >The NLRB / Boeing decision was an obscenity. If it stands, Boeing will >move offshore in due time. > >YMMV, > >-John > >= > > >> Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the >> best >> representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is >> ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow >along. >> It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar. >> >> Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for >> the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the >> NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress >> is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of >> thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, >> or >> force it through, over the large sums of money already invested. >> >> Best, >> >> Will >> >> *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** >> >> On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote: >> >>>http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-ga lile >> o >>>-may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNS S-De >> s >>>ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may -be- >> r >>>isk-too-11822 >>> >>> >>>Seems like no one is safe from this! >>> >>>Rob K >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>___ >>>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>and follow the instructions there. >>> >>>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 5851 (20110206) __ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 6253 (20110630) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and minutes. Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of Lightsquared's whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
The exception to this rule is the Yucca Mountain Projects. Billions spent and it has been mothballed. The GOP wanted to conduct a tour of the facility and were presented with a bill just to turn on the lights (so to speak). They couldn't even fund the tour. -Original Message- From: "Will Matney" Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:45:32 To: Reply-To: xfor...@citynet.net, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the best representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow along. It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar. Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, or force it through, over the large sums of money already invested. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote: >http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galile o >-may-be-risk-too-11822?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GNSS-De s >ign_06_29_2011&utm_content=lightsquared-goes-global-glonass-galileo-may-be- r >isk-too-11822 > > >Seems like no one is safe from this! > >Rob K > > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
> Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? > I'm using C here. It's trivial. All you have to do is offset by the difference in starting days. MJD is usually printed as an integer rather than year-month-day format. (My sample is tiny so that could easily be bogus.) This is what I use to make log files similar to what ntpd writes. #define MJD_197040587 /* MJD for 1 Jan 1970 */ struct timeval stop; gettimeofday(&stop, NULL); day = stop.tv_sec / 86400 + MJD_1970; sec = stop.tv_sec % 86400; msec = stop.tv_usec / 1000; printf(file, "%d %d.%03d", day, sec, msec); -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use wasted TV bandwidth. TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. -Original Message- From: David VanHorn Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and minutes. Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of Lightsquared's whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content perhaps? But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use > wasted TV bandwidth. > > TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS > scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use > the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. > > > > -Original Message- > From: David VanHorn > Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement< > time-nuts@febo.com> > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > > Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I > forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. > Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and > minutes. > > Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. > > > > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > >Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of > Lightsquared's > whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RE - 53132A slow update
Bob, Thanks for the information. Everything else about this counter is perfect so I can live with hitting the run button. John The 53132 and 53131 behave oddly when the frequency is dropped. Apparently they do some sort of pre-scaling thing in their firmware. When you drop frequency 100:1 at a 1 second gate time it indeed can take quite a while for it to figure out what's going on. Simple fix - poke the run button when you change frequency. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. Spectrum has been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little bit when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall. -Original Message- From: paul swed Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06 To: ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content perhaps? But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use > wasted TV bandwidth. > > TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS > scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use > the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. > > > > -Original Message- > From: David VanHorn > Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement< > time-nuts@febo.com> > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > > Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I > forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. > Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and > minutes. > > Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. > > > > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > >Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of > Lightsquared's > whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Might be worth a read of some of Charlie Rhodes' columns at TV Technology. The latest is "Can Terrestrial Broadcasting and GPS Co-exist in Adjoining Spectrum?" and is at http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/122176 Over the years Charlie has presented what seems IMHO to be valid reasons why TV white spaces - aka guardbands - exist and that terrestrial TV needs them. Same applies for GPS and LS. I'd at least agree that the need for white spaces is one main reason why "Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted". Of course, my meaning of "use" here is that of "occupy". I think Mr. Rhodes would contend even un-occupied spectrum is in use... Bob LaJeunesse From: "li...@lazygranch.com" To: paul swed ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 3:45:10 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. Spectrum has been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little bit when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall. -Original Message- From: paul swed Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06 To: ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content perhaps? But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use > wasted TV bandwidth. > > TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS > scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use > the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. > > > > -Original Message- > From: David VanHorn > Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement< > time-nuts@febo.com> > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > > Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I > forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. > Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and > minutes. > > Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. > > > > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of > Lightsquared's > whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update
Bob: Perhaps different firmware revisions behave differently? Mine has 4613 and doesn't miss a single gate period when switching up or down - I went from 80MHz down to 1MHz and even 100Hz, without confounding the meter. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:34 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Hi The 53132 and 53131 behave oddly when the frequency is dropped. Apparently they do some sort of pre-scaling thing in their firmware. When you drop frequency 100:1 at a 1 second gate time it indeed can take quite a while for it to figure out what's going on. Simple fix - poke the run button when you change frequency. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jose Camara Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:21 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update John: I'd run the performance tests from the service manual (available at Agilent.com). You mentioned rear inputs, option 060, and that might be a clue. Option 060 has a 15dB lower sensitivity specification, and in the service manual it specifically states to not use front input when you have rear ones installed (the rear connectors are simply a BNC with a short cable soldered to the board in parallel to the front PCB-mount BNCs). --From the Service Manual--- DO NOT test the front terminals if rear terminals are installed. The front terminal performance is not specified when the rear terminals are installed. If you don't need the rear panel inputs, I'd get rid of them. It seems like an afterthought option HP didn't really consider when designing the counter, not meant for dual inputs, just moving the legal input to the back. Now, 10" of coax as a stub shouldn't hurt you in the low MHz region, so it doesn't explain your issue. Another thing I found out is that the statement I made in my last email, that the 53132A always power up at a factory default state, is only true for firmware revisions 3622 and above. Older revs would apparently save to register 0 the current state before a recall operation - I can see how that led to confusion and was eliminated. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:06 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update HI Jose, Thank you for the ideas. I am using a Tektronix AFG 3102 DDS generator which works up to 100 MHz. The counter firmware version is 3646. I tried sine wave amplitudes between 70 mV and 1V ptp. The waveforms looked good on the oscilloscope. I did notice that the Hi-Z front panel input will attenuate the input signal quite a bit unless I terminate the rear panel inputs in 50 Ohms. I tried different thresholds and gate times and I still get the same behavior. If I flip between 100 MHz and 1MHz 20 times, there will be a delay in updating the 1 MHz measurement about 5 times. I ran each of the self test routines and they all passed. Both low frequency input channels show this behavior, as well as the 12.4 GHz input (input frequency switched between 12 GHz abnd 200 MHz). A coworker suggested that the counter might be slower in updating to a new lower frequency because its interleaves counting edges and would be thrown off if the new edge rate was much slower. The fact that your counter works as expected casts doubt on this possibility. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. John Pease Check your cable, or better yet, look at the input signal with a oscilloscope. Something is fishy (missing return plus AC couple, too low amplitude, etc.). I used a 33250 generator at 50mVrms and tried going from 80MHz down to 1MHz, even 100Hz and it changed the very next gate period every time (one period had partial counts, of course). The 53132A doesn't have the 'green button' that presets it to a known state, but it always powers up in the default state. Your signal might need some special handling - sensitivity, coupling, termination? Finally, if the counter is an 'eBay special', it might be bad. Run self-test and follow confidence tests from service manual. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:07 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Hello, ? My new to me counter has a strange response when I change the input frequency. With the gate set to 1s, I can measure 100 MHz with plenty of
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
This was not the "white space" plan, it was specifically targeted at either the US 2M or 440 band. I just don't remember which. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of li...@lazygranch.com [li...@lazygranch.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:42 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use wasted TV bandwidth. TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. -Original Message- From: David VanHorn Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and minutes. Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of Lightsquared's whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV White Spaces and wasted spectrum
Quote: That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use wasted TV bandwidth. TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. I think the broadcasters are just waiting for the right price for their spectrum. Over the air broadcasting doesn't reach that many people any more. When the switch to digital occurred, all the stations around here reduced power. Most by 10 Db. Stations that used to have a good picture in analog mode now either aren't at all or reception is spotty. I changed to satellite. In my view, the switch to digital wasn't progress. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Probably because it was UPS, and it was the successful removal of the 220MHz ham band from the hams. As far as I know, the band is still unused. They found it was more cost effective to use the cell phone network. -Chuck Harris David VanHorn wrote: This was not the "white space" plan, it was specifically targeted at either the US 2M or 440 band. I just don't remember which. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Nope, it wasn't the UPS plan either, and that did take a chunk of 220. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris [cfhar...@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:03 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... Probably because it was UPS, and it was the successful removal of the 220MHz ham band from the hams. As far as I know, the band is still unused. They found it was more cost effective to use the cell phone network. -Chuck Harris David VanHorn wrote: > > This was not the "white space" plan, it was specifically targeted at either > the US > 2M or 440 band. I just don't remember which. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Half the band, anyway (220-222). And no, they never did make any use of it I know of. There are still quite a few repeaters and experimental modes being used on the portion remaining to hamateurs (222-225). Keep the peace(es). *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 30-Jun-11 at 17:03 Chuck Harris wrote: >Probably because it was UPS, and it was the successful removal of the >220MHz ham band from the hams. As far as I know, the band is still unused. > >They found it was more cost effective to use the cell phone network. > >-Chuck Harris > >David VanHorn wrote: >> >> This was not the "white space" plan, it was specifically targeted at >either the US >> 2M or 440 band. I just don't remember which. > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 6253 (20110630) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV White Spaces and wasted spectrum
The broadcasters don't pay for spectrum, at least like the wireless companies do. Broadcasters serve the public in exchange for their use of the airwaves. They pay a nominal fee for their license, but hey, so do hams. Part of the problem is the original VHF stations lobbied to stay VHF after the move. You could give them 3 UHF licenses and simulcast, and still get more spectrum than the current plan. Can't argue with you on satellite. On 6/30/2011 2:00 PM, John Green wrote: Quote: That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use wasted TV bandwidth. TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. I think the broadcasters are just waiting for the right price for their spectrum. Over the air broadcasting doesn't reach that many people any more. When the switch to digital occurred, all the stations around here reduced power. Most by 10 Db. Stations that used to have a good picture in analog mode now either aren't at all or reception is spotty. I changed to satellite. In my view, the switch to digital wasn't progress. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LightSquared interference report is out
The Working Group final report on the LightSquared--GPS interference issue has been released. You can download it using the FCC's ECFS electronic comment filing system. It is posted in 7 parts totaling 1,035 pages: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690469 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690470 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690471 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690472 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690473 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690474 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=TMkQnDhpDqL0y9zWh13z2mzTdcnFSvrS9lyZX7ck8yPvpQD1vVls!-1870848622!-1326520164?id=7021690476 You can also download a Public Notice summarizing the Report and describing how to file comments. Comments are due by July 30, and reply comments by August 15. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-1133A1.pdf Note that there are two ways to file comments -- you can use a web form to file "brief comments," or you can put your comments into a PDF document and submit them through the ECFS system. Comments filed through the ECFS system are more likely to be taken seriously. Comments alleging conspiracy theories, insider dealing, or other nefarious behavior on the part of LightSquared will not be taken seriously and would likely tend to devalue other comments from individuals that might be helpful to the cause. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Here's one thing that's fixing to happen, if any interference is allowed to take place. All the large companies like Cat and Deere have been including GPS guidance for the operators for a good while now. Most of your surveyers now use GPS in about everything they do. If they are forced to go back to the old ways of surveying, can you imagine the hold-up's, in the large construction projects within our infrastructure, that this will cause? All of those hold-up's equal over runs on time, which means huge amounts of state and federal dollars having to be added to complate these projects. They use GPS in graders and dozers to aquire any grade angle that the specs call for, on top of where it supposed to be. The surveyers use it almost strictly now to do any of their work. I can also see it adding years to projects that is now underway, and I wonder if they have thought of any of this? Surely Deere, Cat, and most likely Trimble, have tried to explain this to the idiots in Washington? Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 6/30/2011 at 1:00 PM Robert LaJeunesse wrote: >Might be worth a read of some of Charlie Rhodes' columns at TV Technology. The >latest is "Can Terrestrial Broadcasting and GPS Co-exist in Adjoining Spectrum?" >and is at http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/122176 > >Over the years Charlie has presented what seems IMHO to be valid reasons why TV >white spaces - aka guardbands - exist and that terrestrial TV needs them. Same >applies for GPS and LS. I'd at least agree that the need for white spaces is one >main reason why "Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is >allotted". Of course, my meaning of "use" here is that of "occupy". I think Mr. >Rhodes would contend even un-occupied spectrum is in use... > >Bob LaJeunesse > > > > >From: "li...@lazygranch.com" >To: paul swed ; Discussion of precise time and frequency >measurement >Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 3:45:10 PM >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > >Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. Spectrum has >been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little bit >when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall. > > >-Original Message- >From: paul swed >Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06 >To: ; Discussion of precise time and frequency >measurement >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > >Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content >perhaps? >But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts. >Regards >Paul. > >On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > >> That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use >> wasted TV bandwidth. >> >> TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS >> scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use >> the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: David VanHorn >> Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement< >> time-nuts@febo.com> >> Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... >> >> >> Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 I >> forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. >> Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and >> minutes. >> >> Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. >> >> >> >> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... >> >> Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of >> Lightsquared's >> whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__
Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared interference report is out
On 6/30/11 2:26 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: The Working Group final report on the LightSquared--GPS interference issue has been released. You can download it using the FCC's ECFS electronic comment filing system. It is posted in 7 parts totaling 1,035 pages: ALso at http://www.pnt.gov/interference/lightsquared/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. -John = > Might be worth a read of some of Charlie Rhodes' columns at TV > Technology. The > latest is "Can Terrestrial Broadcasting and GPS Co-exist in Adjoining > Spectrum?" > and is at http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/122176 > > Over the years Charlie has presented what seems IMHO to be valid reasons > why TV > white spaces - aka guardbands - exist and that terrestrial TV needs them. > Same > applies for GPS and LS. I'd at least agree that the need for white > spaces is one > main reason why "Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is > allotted". Of course, my meaning of "use" here is that of "occupy". I > think Mr. > Rhodes would contend even un-occupied spectrum is in use... > > Bob LaJeunesse > > > > > From: "li...@lazygranch.com" > To: paul swed ; Discussion of precise time and > frequency > measurement > Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 3:45:10 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. > Spectrum has > been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little > bit > when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall. > > > -Original Message- > From: paul swed > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06 > To: ; Discussion of precise time and frequency > measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... > > Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content > perhaps? > But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts. > Regards > Paul. > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > >> That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to >> use >> wasted TV bandwidth. >> >> TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS >> scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically >> use >> the spectrum. They should really just refarm the spectrum. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: David VanHorn >> Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:04:42 >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement< >> time-nuts@febo.com> >> Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... >> >> >> Years ago, microsoft wanted to take over one of the ham bands, 2m or 440 >> I >> forget which, for satellites for internet in poor areas. >> Swatch wanted to have everyone change to "beats" instead of seconds and >> minutes. >> >> Stupid ideas abound, but they usually fall apart. >> >> >> >> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf >> Of >> Bruce Lane [kyr...@bluefeathertech.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... >> >> Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of >> Lightsquared's >> whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be). >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
Yes, but people are awfully dumb! They have no idea what you are talking about. They buy Kindles and watch movies on screens less than 60 inch diagonal measurement using sound systems that produce nothing but noise. They don't buy newspapers and never give a thought to the fact that unless their information is printed, it can be changed at will to suit any need required by people who are smarter than they are. We won't even mention what they do in the privacy of the voting booth! And I weep when I see those photos of great people who give their lives so that I can continue to live as I want. And, no, I didn't lose a cent during this latest economic madness which I'm sure is promoted by those who measure time in pips.. Lee Mushel - Original Message - From: "J. Forster" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global... If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. -John = ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Racal Dana 9092
All, I'm looking for some junker Racal Dana 9082 RF generators, if anyone knows of any? I have a good 9082 that I have used over the years, along with the matching 9083 two tone generator, and would like to find some old ones for parts units. I wouldn't mind finding a clunker 9083 too. It will be August before I buy, but I'm looking around in advance. If anyone has one of either, that they would like to get rid of, e-mail me at my address below. Thanks, Will xfor...@citynet.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 8566B repair YTO Unlock
I finally got work to spring for a nice SA. Based on a recommendation from our EMC guy, I chose an 8566B from Ebay. Well, less than a week after arrival, it started giving me "YTO Unlock" messages, and in the 0-2GHz band, it would show a 100 mhz carrier at 1.53 GHz (more or less) After a bit of nosing around, I isolated the failure to a 0.33uF 100V large polyester(?) cap on the A19 board that bypasses an 8.2V zener making the 10V reference. The cap read 33 ohms. I replaced it with a pair of 0.15uF 630V polyester caps that I happened to have, and it's all up and running nicely now. Just posting in case it becomes useful for someone else. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
List, Leaving all the conspiracy assumptions aside, there is a very practical cost savings to the user. Let me explain by this example. We lived in Custer county CO for several years. There are about 3,500 people spread out in the area. Our average electric bill was around $150 a month and we had remotely read meters. IIRC they were the spinning dial type FWIW. If the Co-Op had to hire two meter readers the math (ROUGHLY) goes a bit like this. Assume a very modest wage of $10 per hour. Adding the burden factor brings the employee cost to $25 per hour. Then because of the rural gravel roads and snow, two quality 4 WHD vehicles are needed. This would be at least a $80,000 up-front expense. One has to add to that fuel, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation. In this rugged area that would run a dollar per mile. Knowing the area, a meter reader would only be able to read 6 meters an hour. It would be fair to say that there is on average 2 miles between meters round trip. The reason for this number is there are places where there are several customers within a few hundreds of yards of each other. There are about 1,400 households. So 1,400 divided by 6 equals 233 man hours. So we have 233 man-hours at $25/hr. That is $5,825 per month or $69,900 for salaries. Then add 1,400 households times 2 miles times 12 months. This comes to $33,600. The total is $103,500 to read 1,400 meters once a month for a year. For the sake of this exercise ASS-U-ME that the cost of a remotely read meter installed, with all the computers and software came to $1,000 per unit. (I believe I’m wildly on the high side.) With 1,400 meters this comes to $1,400,000. Your payback comes in 10 years. From my experience, I’ve never heard of one warring out. So from a purely economic reasons they made sense where I used to live. As for other areas they are case specific. Any additional economic data or corrections are welcomed. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
The best use of a remote readout meter is when they start billing with a rate based on the time of day. Then people who are smart about their use can really save some money How? Some marine refrigerators will chill down a large mass of coolant when there is power and then shut off the compressor for up to several days. Something like this could work at home by running at night when the power is cheap. In 10 years there will be many used electric car batteries available for cheap. They will still have 1/2 capacity left. I'm sure people will charge these at night and sell the power back during the day. Smart meters will enable en entire new industry of power storage and power use deferment. They also will greatly reduce the peak load on the grid. That is where the power company will save money. Peak loads are expensive to power. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Perry Sandeen wrote: > > > List, > > Leaving all the conspiracy assumptions aside, there is a very practical cost > savings to the user. > > Let me explain by this example. We lived in Custer county CO for several > years. There are about 3,500 people spread out in the area. Our average > electric bill was around $150 a month and we had remotely read meters. IIRC > they were the spinning dial type FWIW. > > If the Co-Op had to hire two meter readers the math (ROUGHLY) goes a bit like > this. Assume a very modest wage of $10 per hour. Adding the burden factor > brings the employee cost to $25 per hour. Then because of the rural gravel > roads and snow, two quality 4 WHD vehicles are needed. This would be at > least a $80,000 up-front expense. One has to add to that fuel, maintenance, > insurance, and depreciation. In this rugged area that would run a dollar per > mile. > > Knowing the area, a meter reader would only be able to read 6 meters an hour. > It would be fair to say that there is on average 2 miles between meters > round trip. The reason for this number is there are places where there are > several customers within a few hundreds of yards of each other. > > There are about 1,400 households. So 1,400 divided by 6 equals 233 man hours. > > So we have 233 man-hours at $25/hr. That is $5,825 per month or $69,900 for > salaries. > > Then add 1,400 households times 2 miles times 12 months. This comes to > $33,600. > > The total is $103,500 to read 1,400 meters once a month for a year. > > For the sake of this exercise ASS-U-ME that the cost of a remotely read meter > installed, with all the computers and software came to $1,000 per unit. (I > believe I’m wildly on the high side.) With 1,400 meters this comes to > $1,400,000. > > Your payback comes in 10 years. From my experience, I’ve never heard of one > warring out. > > So from a purely economic reasons they made sense where I used to live. As > for other areas they are case specific. > > Any additional economic data or corrections are welcomed. > > Regards, > > Perrier > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
I don't question your economic data, but IMO there is a huge potential for governmental abuse... a kind of "dual use" technology. For example, the government started to give out highway funds, then leveraged those funds into forcing national speed limits, seat belt laws, lowered drinking ages, "True Identity", and other things. When the government is the sole payer for health care, will they start to tax Big Macs and fries? Some places are already legislating that kids meals have to have apples and carrot sticks. Smart meter technology has, IMO, become another potential instrument of overreaching governmental control. The Nanny State is a metastatic cancer. YMMV, -John == > > > List, > > Leaving all the conspiracy assumptions aside, there is a very practical > cost savings to the user. > > Let me explain by this example. We lived in Custer county CO for several > years. There are about 3,500 people spread out in the area. Our average > electric bill was around $150 a month and we had remotely read meters. > IIRC they were the spinning dial type FWIW. > > If the Co-Op had to hire two meter readers the math (ROUGHLY) goes a bit > like this. Assume a very modest wage of $10 per hour. Adding the burden > factor brings the employee cost to $25 per hour. Then because of the > rural gravel roads and snow, two quality 4 WHD vehicles are needed. This > would be at least a $80,000 up-front expense. One has to add to that > fuel, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation. In this rugged area that > would run a dollar per mile. > > Knowing the area, a meter reader would only be able to read 6 meters an > hour. It would be fair to say that there is on average 2 miles between > meters round trip. The reason for this number is there are places where > there are several customers within a few hundreds of yards of each other. > > There are about 1,400 households. So 1,400 divided by 6 equals 233 man > hours. > > So we have 233 man-hours at $25/hr. That is $5,825 per month or $69,900 > for salaries. > > Then add 1,400 households times 2 miles times 12 months. This comes to > $33,600. > > The total is $103,500 to read 1,400 meters once a month for a year. > > For the sake of this exercise ASS-U-ME that the cost of a remotely read > meter installed, with all the computers and software came to $1,000 per > unit. (I believe Iâm wildly on the high side.) With 1,400 meters this > comes to $1,400,000. > > Your payback comes in 10 years. From my experience, Iâve never heard of > one warring out. > > So from a purely economic reasons they made sense where I used to live. > As for other areas they are case specific. > > Any additional economic data or corrections are welcomed. > > Regards, > > Perrier > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
At 01:24 PM 6/30/2011, Hal Murray wrote: > Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? > I'm using C here. It's trivial. All you have to do is offset by the difference in starting days. Got it working. Thanks! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
Anyone that can read the power use of a house can figure out if the occupants are on vacation. I asked PGE to set up my meter so it could never be read over the internet. They refused. -Original Message- From: "J. Forster" Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:45:11 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters I don't question your economic data, but IMO there is a huge potential for governmental abuse... a kind of "dual use" technology. For example, the government started to give out highway funds, then leveraged those funds into forcing national speed limits, seat belt laws, lowered drinking ages, "True Identity", and other things. When the government is the sole payer for health care, will they start to tax Big Macs and fries? Some places are already legislating that kids meals have to have apples and carrot sticks. Smart meter technology has, IMO, become another potential instrument of overreaching governmental control. The Nanny State is a metastatic cancer. YMMV, -John == > > > List, > > Leaving all the conspiracy assumptions aside, there is a very practical > cost savings to the user. > > Let me explain by this example. We lived in Custer county CO for several > years. There are about 3,500 people spread out in the area. Our average > electric bill was around $150 a month and we had remotely read meters. > IIRC they were the spinning dial type FWIW. > > If the Co-Op had to hire two meter readers the math (ROUGHLY) goes a bit > like this. Assume a very modest wage of $10 per hour. Adding the burden > factor brings the employee cost to $25 per hour. Then because of the > rural gravel roads and snow, two quality 4 WHD vehicles are needed. This > would be at least a $80,000 up-front expense. One has to add to that > fuel, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation. In this rugged area that > would run a dollar per mile. > > Knowing the area, a meter reader would only be able to read 6 meters an > hour. It would be fair to say that there is on average 2 miles between > meters round trip. The reason for this number is there are places where > there are several customers within a few hundreds of yards of each other. > > There are about 1,400 households. So 1,400 divided by 6 equals 233 man > hours. > > So we have 233 man-hours at $25/hr. That is $5,825 per month or $69,900 > for salaries. > > Then add 1,400 households times 2 miles times 12 months. This comes to > $33,600. > > The total is $103,500 to read 1,400 meters once a month for a year. > > For the sake of this exercise ASS-U-ME that the cost of a remotely read > meter installed, with all the computers and software came to $1,000 per > unit. (I believe I’m wildly on the high side.) With 1,400 meters this > comes to $1,400,000. > > Your payback comes in 10 years. From my experience, I’ve never heard of > one warring out. > > So from a purely economic reasons they made sense where I used to live. > As for other areas they are case specific. > > Any additional economic data or corrections are welcomed. > > Regards, > > Perrier > > >___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
Hi: How would anyone know how to get to any specific meter? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com li...@lazygranch.com wrote: Anyone that can read the power use of a house can figure out if the occupants are on vacation. I asked PGE to set up my meter so it could never be read over the internet. They refused. -Original Message- From: "J. Forster" Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:45:11 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters I don't question your economic data, but IMO there is a huge potential for governmental abuse... a kind of "dual use" technology. For example, the government started to give out highway funds, then leveraged those funds into forcing national speed limits, seat belt laws, lowered drinking ages, "True Identity", and other things. When the government is the sole payer for health care, will they start to tax Big Macs and fries? Some places are already legislating that kids meals have to have apples and carrot sticks. Smart meter technology has, IMO, become another potential instrument of overreaching governmental control. The Nanny State is a metastatic cancer. YMMV, -John == List, Leaving all the conspiracy assumptions aside, there is a very practical cost savings to the user. Let me explain by this example. We lived in Custer county CO for several years. There are about 3,500 people spread out in the area. Our average electric bill was around $150 a month and we had remotely read meters. IIRC they were the spinning dial type FWIW. If the Co-Op had to hire two meter readers the math (ROUGHLY) goes a bit like this. Assume a very modest wage of $10 per hour. Adding the burden factor brings the employee cost to $25 per hour. Then because of the rural gravel roads and snow, two quality 4 WHD vehicles are needed. This would be at least a $80,000 up-front expense. One has to add to that fuel, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation. In this rugged area that would run a dollar per mile. Knowing the area, a meter reader would only be able to read 6 meters an hour. It would be fair to say that there is on average 2 miles between meters round trip. The reason for this number is there are places where there are several customers within a few hundreds of yards of each other. There are about 1,400 households. So 1,400 divided by 6 equals 233 man hours. So we have 233 man-hours at $25/hr. That is $5,825 per month or $69,900 for salaries. Then add 1,400 households times 2 miles times 12 months. This comes to $33,600. The total is $103,500 to read 1,400 meters once a month for a year. For the sake of this exercise ASS-U-ME that the cost of a remotely read meter installed, with all the computers and software came to $1,000 per unit. (I believe I’m wildly on the high side.) With 1,400 meters this comes to $1,400,000. Your payback comes in 10 years. From my experience, I’ve never heard of one warring out. So from a purely economic reasons they made sense where I used to live. As for other areas they are case specific. Any additional economic data or corrections are welcomed. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
There are these people called...let me seeah yes, hackers. I used to think paypal was a bad idea until someone decided to open an account on one of my credit cards. On 6/30/2011 9:10 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi: How would anyone know how to get to any specific meter? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com li...@lazygranch.com wrote: Anyone that can read the power use of a house can figure out if the occupants are on vacation. I asked PGE to set up my meter so it could never be read over the internet. They refused. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV White Spaces and wasted spectrum
From: "John Green" [] I think the broadcasters are just waiting for the right price for their spectrum. Over the air broadcasting doesn't reach that many people any more. When the switch to digital occurred, all the stations around here reduced power. Most by 10 Db. Stations that used to have a good picture in analog mode now either aren't at all or reception is spotty. I changed to satellite. In my view, the switch to digital wasn't progress. Not true in the UK, though. During the digital switch-over digital stations /increased/ power, and there are still a lot of people relying on over-the-air TV (which is free), although many do pay monthly for a satellite or cable service (to my mind, paying rather a lot). We had a period for several years where digital and analogue co-existed, with the digital running at lower power to avoid interference. In my view, it was all quite well handled. The switch-over has yet to complete throughout the UK. I recently tried looking at the spectrum using my FUNcube dongle, and you could start to see the individual carriers of the ODFM signal, but I may have lost my single carrier 600MHz frequency references! We use the DVB-T and DVB-T2 standards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T2 Sorry to hear that you can't get as good a signal any more. Our broadcasting transmitters are co-located even for competing channels, so one antenna pointing in one direction is all that is needed. Digital has done nothing to improve program quality, of course, 90% of the new channels are just dross, and transmitted in too low a bit rate! Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I'd prefer one without politics. Do we need another list for the political aspects of things like this? Would the people who send the political stuff pay any attention to the no-politics policy? > How? Some marine refrigerators will chill down a large mass of coolant when > there is power and then shut off the compressor for up to several days. > Something like this could work at home by running at night when the power is > cheap. I've worked at a place where they had an air-conditioning setup like that. (I never got a tour of the machine room.) At night they cool off a huge tank of salt water. During the day, they use it to cool offices. -- > That is where the power company will save money. Peak loads are expensive > to power. I live in California. Peak time is summer afternoons/evenings. Afternoons when all the office complexes are running their air conditioners. Evenings when everybody gets home and turns on their air conditioners. It's also peak time for solar. A friend says he's making money after spending big $ to put a lot of solar panels on his roof. I don't know how much of that was tax dodges and/or other political distortions. He said it's important to hose them off occasionally (few weeks) or the dust buildup reduces the output. --- I have a PG&E Smart Meter. They have a SmartRate program with a reduced rate most of the time but the rate goes way up from 2 to 7 PM on 15 SmartDays of their choice during the summer. They send you announcements/warnings via email and/or a phone call and it hits the local news. I don't have an air-conditioner so my usage is pretty flat (mostly PCs). I assumed flat and did the math and decided I would save a few pennies each year so I signed up. They let you change your mind retroactively for the first summer so I didn't have anything to lose. As expected, I'm saving a few pennies each year. We've already had 2 Smart Days this summer. There was a mini heat wave last week. -- I haven't noticed any pole mounted antennas in the neighborhood, but I haven't gone looking for them. It's obvious where the electric meter gets its power, but that doesn't work for the gas meter. In some other context, somebody pointed out that they just use batteries. They only have to last 10 years or so before they replace (or are willing to replace) the meter. I've been here 30 years and know they replaced it once for no reason that I know of. Then they replaced it a year or so ago for the Smart stuff. A couple of D-cell sized lithium cells is in the right ballpark. The devil is in the details. The water people are also interested. My meter is underground. Google found a few pages with things like an antenna that sticks up a bit and/or a cable that runs over to an inconspicuous antenna in the bushes or next to a fence -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: > If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in > the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the political class as a place for political ads and local news about the local congresscritters. But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. > > It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of "free" broadcast TV. And more and more of the quality content is there and only there (and on the Internet for pay too). > > -John -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either." ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
IMHO, it's the new age of the robber barons. Paying for content is one thing, paying a government granted monopoly for use of the transmission medium is another. There is no effective competition if the bandwidth is sold to the highest bidder, locking out competition. Comparable to the great land giveaways to implement the transcontinental railways. Don David I. Emery > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: >> If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast >> media in >> the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. > > Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the > political class as a place for political ads and local news about the > local congresscritters. > > But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens > of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. > >> >> It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. > > Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace > despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of > "free" broadcast TV. > > And more and more of the quality content is there and only there > (and on the Internet for pay too). > > >> >> -John > > > -- > Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, > Mass 02493 > "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten > 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole > - in > celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now > either." > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
