Re: [time-nuts] Breguet TYPE XXII
H...CSACs don't look so costly now. -RL --- -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Will Matney Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 3:52 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Breguet TYPE XXII Just got this in an e-mail from Breguet. Breguet TYPE XXII - Flyback Chronograph in Steel is now available in the New York Breguet Boutique. The Breguet Type XXII chronograph offers an aesthetic reinterpretation of the legendary Type XX, but above all embodies a high-precision achievement. This creation is equipped with the first and only series-made mechanical chronograph movement with a silicon escapement and balance spring boasting a frequency raised to 10 Hz, meaning 72,000 vibrations per hour. The seconds hand performs a complete rotation in 30 seconds. 24-hour indicator and second time-zone indicator. Water resistant to 100m. Diameter 44 mm. $19,200 Now, the $19,200 is the only sticking point! See the attached photo, a really nice timekeeper. Best, Will ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
In message BANLkTi=k9mxbgewczrm5zadqjhguazq...@mail.gmail.com, William H. Fi te writes: OK, can we just add a bit of postive here ? If your meter is anything like the ones we have over here, they have a two-way optical port marked DLMS, IEC-62056-21 or similar. Hook up a IR-LED and IR-Photodiode to your serial port, open a terminal program with 300,7,EVEN,1 and send / ? ! CR NL And marvel at all the data it spews back. Here is a python class which does the comms for you: https://github.com/bsdphk/PyDLMS Here is a blog entry in Danish about it: http://ing.dk/artikel/120524-tal-med-din-elmaaler-og-ingenioeren Enjoy... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] live 50 Hz measurements
From digest vol 84 issue 7: Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:06:31 -0700 From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: xfor...@citynet.net, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] live 50 Hz measurements Message-ID: banlktindmf0t_fu3aqupckhrk7uxfqs...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Will Matney xfor...@citynet.net wrote: For accuracy sake, I'd still compare the line freq. to a standard, but that's just me. If the computer used for this is also running ntpd the computer's clock is disciplined. How well depends on what ntpd is using as a reference clock. Actually, there *are* cases where ntpd is running without complaint but the local clock is not being disciplined. The situation I most often run into is that ntpd has been started with insufficient privilege, and so its tweak-the-clock requests are being silently ignored by the operating system. If there is no drift file, the usual symptom is that the clock offset grows without bound almost linearly. If there is a valid drift file, the usual symptom is that the clock offset sways more or less sinusoidally, this being the residue after the average clock drift is removed. Joe Gwinn. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
They are not like the US meters, but interesting. BTW, Google Translate works fine on the text and helps a lot. OTOH, it is hard to see the benefit of such meters to the utility, because the reader person still has to walk house-to-house. -John = In message BANLkTi=k9mxbgewczrm5zadqjhguazq...@mail.gmail.com, William H. Fi te writes: OK, can we just add a bit of postive here ? If your meter is anything like the ones we have over here, they have a two-way optical port marked DLMS, IEC-62056-21 or similar. Hook up a IR-LED and IR-Photodiode to your serial port, open a terminal program with 300,7,EVEN,1 and send / ? ! CR NL And marvel at all the data it spews back. Here is a python class which does the comms for you: https://github.com/bsdphk/PyDLMS Here is a blog entry in Danish about it: http://ing.dk/artikel/120524-tal-med-din-elmaaler-og-ingenioeren Enjoy... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner
Interesting read and a nice site. Have to say to stumble across any of these is indeed luc. Enjoy On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.comwrote: Hi Pete, Thanks. Yes, I was planning to write them myself. The existence and quality of the Clock Corner site itself is pretty strong evidence that they take this sort of request very seriously... Incidentally, if you search for the Typer 37 master in the world's favorite search engine there's a link to NIST document that has a picture of a Type 37 which is supposed to be on display in Boulder somewhere :) Mine doesn't look quite as nice (it needs a little TLC) but these are very interesting clocks... More Atomic Era than atomic though. -- Russell At 12:52 PM -0700 2011/07/01, Pete Lancashire wrote: I would give a try at contacting IBM's Archivist. Who ever wrote the Clock page came across as very dedicated to his or her job. -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com wrote: I've actually had reason to reference this IBM resource myself recently. Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of detail on the Type 37 Master. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
In message 2506.12.6.201.111.1309558264.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. For ster writes: OTOH, it is hard to see the benefit of such meters to the utility, because the reader person still has to walk house-to-house. Over here we read the meter ourselves, once a year, but they do random spot-checks where they use a PDA with an attachment to do the optical readout. I would pressume the error rate would be much lower than if the meter reader had to write down the numbers by hand... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Breguet TYPE XXII
Tom, I think you misunderstood the post. I was not peddling a watch, but quoting an e-mail, containing the technical aspects of, or the horological aspects of, the new watch itself, or the new movement they're using to tell time, and what they did. Maybe I should have started the quote at This creation, and eneded it at rotation in 30 seconds, and not commented about it afterward. I would actually think this would be closer to OT than about anything, especially the new horology aspect, but OK. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/1/2011 at 2:54 PM Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Will, Please do not use time-nuts for postings like this. I know we have our share of OT posts, especially lately, but Breguet has nothing to do with our group: http://www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm Thanks, /tvb - Original Message - From: Will Matney xfor...@citynet.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 12:51 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Breguet TYPE XXII Just got this in an e-mail from Breguet. Breguet TYPE XXII - Flyback Chronograph in Steel is now available in the New York Breguet Boutique. The Breguet Type XXII chronograph offers an aesthetic reinterpretation of the legendary Type XX, but above all embodies a high-precision achievement. This creation is equipped with the first and only series-made mechanical chronograph movement with a silicon escapement and balance spring boasting a frequency raised to 10 Hz, meaning 72,000 vibrations per hour. The seconds hand performs a complete rotation in 30 seconds. 24-hour indicator and second time-zone indicator. Water resistant to 100m. Diameter 44 mm. $19,200 Now, the $19,200 is the only sticking point! See the attached photo, a really nice timekeeper. Best, Will --- - ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
If you don't need the 26 and 19.2 to be exactly phase locked to the 10, and you can find crystals at those frequencies, I would suggest that you go straight digital. There are a number of simple divide, mix, multiply, and filter combinations that would make those frequencies directly. The main thing is to not have to multiply up too high to get the desired mixer products, versus how well your filters have to work. For example, if you divide the 10 MHz by 5 to make 2, and XOR mix them, you'll have 8 and 12 available, both standard crystal frequencies. The 8 can be filtered out with a crystal filter (but the phase info may be lost) and then XOR doubled to 16, another standard crystal frequency, filtered out and mixed with the 10 to get 26. The 16 can be divided by 5 to make 3.2, also standard, filtered out and mixed with the 16 to make 19.2. It may even be possible to skip the intermediate filtering steps if you have very good output filters - it depends on how clean they need to be further out from the carrier. You would of course have to make sure that the components have sufficient phase noise performance, and you would have to design the crystal filters - possibly multi-staged, and protected from thermal and vibration effects enough for the stability time range needed. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner
Hi, Russell, I just recently sold my IBM Type 37 to a collector in the Los Angeles area. I have the factory documentation for it. If you send me your snail mail address, I will run off a copy for you. This is indeed a fabulous clock. Mine was built in 1957. It used the 3-minute 600Hz. tone that WWV used to send to synchronize itself every hour. The 3-minute tone was validated by using a rotating cam switch driven by a separate synchronous motor. WWV changed its broadcast format a few years later to send one-minute tones instead of 3 minute. There is one of these on display in the lobby of the NIST labs in Boulder, Colorado. email me at couchclocks at yahoo dot com (make the obvious changes in the email address). Don Couch --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com wrote: From: Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:08 PM Hi Pete, Thanks. Yes, I was planning to write them myself. The existence and quality of the Clock Corner site itself is pretty strong evidence that they take this sort of request very seriously... Incidentally, if you search for the Typer 37 master in the world's favorite search engine there's a link to NIST document that has a picture of a Type 37 which is supposed to be on display in Boulder somewhere :) Mine doesn't look quite as nice (it needs a little TLC) but these are very interesting clocks... More Atomic Era than atomic though. -- Russell At 12:52 PM -0700 2011/07/01, Pete Lancashire wrote: I would give a try at contacting IBM's Archivist. Who ever wrote the Clock page came across as very dedicated to his or her job. -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com wrote: I've actually had reason to reference this IBM resource myself recently. Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of detail on the Type 37 Master. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Group messages
All, For some odd reason, I think my e-mail app has sent replies to private e-mails back to the list, and I have just noticed this. If anyone has received them, please disregard them, and I will try to find out why this is happening, and shut them off. Sorry for this, as I never noticed it until now. Thanks, Will ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
IMHO, it's the new age of the robber barons. Paying for content is one thing, paying a government granted monopoly for use of the transmission medium is another. There is no effective competition if the bandwidth is sold to the highest bidder, locking out competition. Comparable to the great land giveaways to implement the transcontinental railways. Don David I. Emery On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the political class as a place for political ads and local news about the local congresscritters. But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of free broadcast TV. And more and more of the quality content is there and only there (and on the Internet for pay too). -John -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
And when do you think the old age of the robber barons ended? Steve On 1 July 2011 18:05, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: IMHO, it's the new age of the robber barons. Paying for content is one thing, paying a government granted monopoly for use of the transmission medium is another. There is no effective competition if the bandwidth is sold to the highest bidder, locking out competition. Comparable to the great land giveaways to implement the transcontinental railways. Don David I. Emery On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the political class as a place for political ads and local news about the local congresscritters. But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of free broadcast TV. And more and more of the quality content is there and only there (and on the Internet for pay too). -John -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters)
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I would like to propose a corollary to Godwin's Law* for technical discussion groups. I have observed that every electronics technical group I have ever belonged to (and are lots) eventually ends up discussing power distribution! This one is perhaps atypical in that the topic of RCDs has not come up yet but I'm sure if we wait long enough it will. It used to bug me but now with very cheap bandwidth I just sit back and wait for the discussion to get back to boatanchors, radio, oscilloscopes, test gear, audio, microprocessors, time nuttery or whatever. It does degrade the S/N ratio a bit though - I wonder if there's a noise-nuts out there to discuss it on :-) Morris * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters)
noise-nuts, I like it :) On 1 July 2011 22:17, Morris Odell vilgo...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I would like to propose a corollary to Godwin's Law* for technical discussion groups. I have observed that every electronics technical group I have ever belonged to (and are lots) eventually ends up discussing power distribution! This one is perhaps atypical in that the topic of RCDs has not come up yet but I'm sure if we wait long enough it will. It used to bug me but now with very cheap bandwidth I just sit back and wait for the discussion to get back to boatanchors, radio, oscilloscopes, test gear, audio, microprocessors, time nuttery or whatever. It does degrade the S/N ratio a bit though - I wonder if there's a noise-nuts out there to discuss it on :-) Morris * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters)
People are tremendously flexible, and are interested in a wide variety of things that is why they are worthy of communication. Any attempt at segregating thought into a single subject invariably fails as the creative minds, and the conversations wander. Rigid enforcement of such segregation only serves to stifle the conversation, and causes the creative juices to dry up...both on subject, and off. The proper time for the segregation is after the conversation is done, which is the function of an editor, and a search engine. If only such existed for these groups... I have always preferred to think of time-nuts as a place to go when you want to see what people that have a strong interest in the measurement of time think of various topics that are sort of related to time. -Chuck Harris Morris Odell wrote: Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I would like to propose a corollary to Godwin's Law* for technical discussion groups. I have observed that every electronics technical group I have ever belonged to (and are lots) eventually ends up discussing power distribution! This one is perhaps atypical in that the topic of RCDs has not come up yet but I'm sure if we wait long enough it will. It used to bug me but now with very cheap bandwidth I just sit back and wait for the discussion to get back to boatanchors, radio, oscilloscopes, test gear, audio, microprocessors, time nuttery or whatever. It does degrade the S/N ratio a bit though - I wonder if there's a noise-nuts out there to discuss it on :-) Morris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
bva? 1e-13 seems like a tall order to me. But I am sure others will have a better idea. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Anders Time anderst...@gmail.com wrote: I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Have been thinking about dividing the signals down to 1MHz and 100kHz and PLL (50Hz BW or so) a reasonable stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz OCXO to that signal. But I'm worried that the division will generate noise so it will not be stable enough? Have also been thinking about using a DDS to the 26MHz and 19.2MHz and then pll, but the DDS subject seems to bee very difficult to get a grip on. Is it possible to generate a signal with that kind of stability in the 1s range? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the political class as a place for political ads and local news about the local congresscritters. But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. There are really no different than cable or FIOS. -John === It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of free broadcast TV. And more and more of the quality content is there and only there (and on the Internet for pay too). -John -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
To get to 1E-13 I'm thinking you may need to do it the same way you got the 10MHz Build an ovenized 26Mhz crystal oscillator and discipline it. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:33 AM, Anders Time anderst...@gmail.com wrote: I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
On 07/01/2011 01:33 PM, Anders Time wrote: I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Have been thinking about dividing the signals down to 1MHz and 100kHz and PLL (50Hz BW or so) a reasonable stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz OCXO to that signal. But I'm worried that the division will generate noise so it will not be stable enough? Have also been thinking about using a DDS to the 26MHz and 19.2MHz and then pll, but the DDS subject seems to bee very difficult to get a grip on. Is it possible to generate a signal with that kind of stability in the 1s range? There are many routes to go through. For the PLL route you should notice that highest common frequency between 10 MHz and 26 MHz is 2 MHz, requiring a division of 5 and 13. A PLL with such ratios becomes fairly simple to achieve lock and suitable performance. A 26 MHz with low noise should be selected. A PI-integrator (1 op-amp, 2 resistors and a capacitor) setup is recommended. For the 19,2 MHz you have 400 kHz as common frequency, which would be another divide by 5 down from the 2 MHz. A divide by 48 is needed from the 19,2 MHz side. Similarly a low noise 19,2 MHz should be selected and a PI loop filter be selected. It should still be fairly easy to get it to lock properly. Another approach would be a mixer based approach. For instance will synchronous dividers be able to provide an interesting solution for 10 MHz to 19,6 MHz by recognizing that 19,6 MHz and 400 kHz both is 9,6 MHz away from the input, so by setting it up for a 1/25 division you also achieve the 19,6 MHz directly, with very good phase noise properties. Achieving the same thing to 26 MHz becomes tricky as the synchronous divider techniques outputs m/n and 2-m/n the frequency of the input frequency. Inserting a frequency doubler provides 20 MHz and then 14 MHz and 26 MHz can be generated. As for DDS it is a bit tricky to give any clear direction, it's like saying you should use a PLL or pen. Best result is if the DDS have a the DDS beat period matching the highest common frequency as presented above. That way annoying spurious signals can be avoided. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update
Hi There may be different behavior with different firmware versions. I do know that a *lot* of 53131's behave exactly as described (like over 40 of them). Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jose Camara Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:28 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Bob: Perhaps different firmware revisions behave differently? Mine has 4613 and doesn't miss a single gate period when switching up or down - I went from 80MHz down to 1MHz and even 100Hz, without confounding the meter. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:34 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update Hi The 53132 and 53131 behave oddly when the frequency is dropped. Apparently they do some sort of pre-scaling thing in their firmware. When you drop frequency 100:1 at a 1 second gate time it indeed can take quite a while for it to figure out what's going on. Simple fix - poke the run button when you change frequency. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jose Camara Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:21 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update John: I'd run the performance tests from the service manual (available at Agilent.com). You mentioned rear inputs, option 060, and that might be a clue. Option 060 has a 15dB lower sensitivity specification, and in the service manual it specifically states to not use front input when you have rear ones installed (the rear connectors are simply a BNC with a short cable soldered to the board in parallel to the front PCB-mount BNCs). --From the Service Manual--- DO NOT test the front terminals if rear terminals are installed. The front terminal performance is not specified when the rear terminals are installed. If you don't need the rear panel inputs, I'd get rid of them. It seems like an afterthought option HP didn't really consider when designing the counter, not meant for dual inputs, just moving the legal input to the back. Now, 10 of coax as a stub shouldn't hurt you in the low MHz region, so it doesn't explain your issue. Another thing I found out is that the statement I made in my last email, that the 53132A always power up at a factory default state, is only true for firmware revisions 3622 and above. Older revs would apparently save to register 0 the current state before a recall operation - I can see how that led to confusion and was eliminated. Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Pease Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:06 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 53132A counter slow frequency update HI Jose, Thank you for the ideas. I am using a Tektronix AFG 3102 DDS generator which works up to 100 MHz. The counter firmware version is 3646. I tried sine wave amplitudes between 70 mV and 1V ptp. The waveforms looked good on the oscilloscope. I did notice that the Hi-Z front panel input will attenuate the input signal quite a bit unless I terminate the rear panel inputs in 50 Ohms. I tried different thresholds and gate times and I still get the same behavior. If I flip between 100 MHz and 1MHz 20 times, there will be a delay in updating the 1 MHz measurement about 5 times. I ran each of the self test routines and they all passed. Both low frequency input channels show this behavior, as well as the 12.4 GHz input (input frequency switched between 12 GHz abnd 200 MHz). A coworker suggested that the counter might be slower in updating to a new lower frequency because its interleaves counting edges and would be thrown off if the new edge rate was much slower. The fact that your counter works as expected casts doubt on this possibility. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. John Pease Check your cable, or better yet, look at the input signal with a oscilloscope. Something is fishy (missing return plus AC couple, too low amplitude, etc.). I used a 33250 generator at 50mVrms and tried going from 80MHz down to 1MHz, even 100Hz and it changed the very next gate period every time (one period had partial counts, of course). The 53132A doesn't have the 'green button' that presets it to a known state, but it always powers up in the default state. Your signal might need some special handling - sensitivity, coupling, termination? Finally, if the counter is an 'eBay special', it might be bad. Run self-test and
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
Hi What you probably will wind up with is a bit wider PLL bandwidth than 50 Hz. The noise floor of your dividers and your phase detector will need to be below that of the BVA. If you divide by 10, then the 20 log N works against you in this case. Take a look at the phase noise numbers on the OCXO at 100 Hz offset to get an idea of just what you are up against. Next up, the noise of the output VC(X)O will need to be below the multiplied noise of the BVA at the cross over frequency. Here you get a benefit from 20 log N. You still will have a hard time beating the 10 MHz OCXO close in. Phase noise data on both the VC(X)O and the BVA will come in very handy in figuring things out. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Anders Time Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:34 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Have been thinking about dividing the signals down to 1MHz and 100kHz and PLL (50Hz BW or so) a reasonable stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz OCXO to that signal. But I'm worried that the division will generate noise so it will not be stable enough? Have also been thinking about using a DDS to the 26MHz and 19.2MHz and then pll, but the DDS subject seems to bee very difficult to get a grip on. Is it possible to generate a signal with that kind of stability in the 1s range? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
In thinking about how to implement a scheme to make the phase and frequency comparison using what I have on hand, I considered the following as a possibility: An ARB with a GPS derived 10 MHz reference set to 60 Hz. The one I have has a very low jitter spec. It actually is a dual ARB so I could use the 2nd independent channel to calibrate the phase detector A phase comparator, which I would have to construct or buy. The phase difference output would be a DC voltage that could be calibrated. This is the only piece that I know little about so suggestions on how to create this would be appreciated. A 2-channel digital scope? A simple IC comparator? Hey, it's only 60 Hz, how tough could it be? A 6-1/2 digit DMM that could either be polled at intervals of a few mSec, or could be set to capture a number of readings for transfer to the PC. In either case the data could be time-stamped. Sounds like fun! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Achim Vollhardt avoll...@physik.uzh.ch wrote: Time-Nutties, how about using a small uC (PIC/AVR) clocked with 100ns instruction speed. Start = 1PPS from GPS, Stop = 60 Hz Edge? Use internal capture hardware to count processor cycles in between. Recently posted plots show that all you need is an AC wall wart transformer and two resistors. a uC is total overkill The xformer and resistor voltage divider works because by dumb luck the pin in the rs232 port was designed to accept a signal that looks a lot like low voltage AC and even better, already has edge detection built in. Also by dumb luck someone already wrote the software to monitor the pin's status and time stamp transitions. This really is a case of pure luck. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
I think he was talking about stability not accuracy. 1second short term stability on a standard 8600 BVA is 1E-12 and 5E-13 at 10 seconds. Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: 01 July 2011 3:18 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz To get to 1E-13 I'm thinking you may need to do it the same way you got the 10MHz Build an ovenized 26Mhz crystal oscillator and discipline it. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:33 AM, Anders Time anderst...@gmail.com wrote: I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] IBM's Clock Corner
This first edition of Clock Corner is just an initial gathering of illustrations, documents and data regarding some of those products. In the months to come, we'll periodically post additional information to answer your questions and add to the library of available resources on IBM clocks. If you don't find what you need today, please let us know and do check back from time to time for new material. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_intro.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM's Clock Corner
Hi Pete: I saw the model number listing. Do you know if there's a version that has photos? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com Pete Lancashire wrote: This first edition of Clock Corner is just an initial gathering of illustrations, documents and data regarding some of those products. In the months to come, we'll periodically post additional information to answer your questions and add to the library of available resources on IBM clocks. If you don't find what you need today, please let us know and do check back from time to time for new material. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_intro.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM's Clock Corner
Didn't see a single PDF but this is the 'corner' http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_room.html -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Pete: I saw the model number listing. Do you know if there's a version that has photos? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com Pete Lancashire wrote: This first edition of Clock Corner is just an initial gathering of illustrations, documents and data regarding some of those products. In the months to come, we'll periodically post additional information to answer your questions and add to the library of available resources on IBM clocks. If you don't find what you need today, please let us know and do check back from time to time for new material. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_intro.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] live 50 Hz measurements
Hello 50 60 Hz nuts, The recent discussions here on measuring the mains frequency and phase prompted me to revive an experiment I set up some 3 years ago. Live data about the phase and frequency of the 50 Hz mains here in the Netherlands can now be viewed at: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/lichtnet/ The system consists of a simple circuit to feed the mains signal safely into an RS232 port (using a neon bulb and a phototransistor; the schematic is on the web page), and some cobbled-together software running under Linux. Regards, Pieter-Tjerk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM's Clock Corner
There is a link at the very bottom of the page, after the boilerplate. -John Didn't see a single PDF but this is the 'corner' http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_room.html -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Pete: I saw the model number listing. Â Do you know if there's a version that has photos? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com Pete Lancashire wrote: This first edition of Clock Corner is just an initial gathering of illustrations, documents and data regarding some of those products. In the months to come, we'll periodically post additional information to answer your questions and add to the library of available resources on IBM clocks. If you don't find what you need today, please let us know and do check back from time to time for new material. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_intro.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion
Posted to this list just minutes before is a live on-line measurement demo. The hardware used is pretty simple. Just four inexpensive parts (and a computer) http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/lichtnet/ On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Tom Holmes thol...@woh.rr.com wrote: In thinking about how to implement a scheme to make the phase and frequency comparison using what I have on hand, I considered the following as a possibility: An ARB with a GPS derived 10 MHz reference set to 60 Hz. The one I have has a very low jitter spec. It actually is a dual ARB so I could use the 2nd independent channel to calibrate the phase detector A phase comparator, which I would have to construct or buy. The phase difference output would be a DC voltage that could be calibrated. This is the only piece that I know little about so suggestions on how to create this would be appreciated. A 2-channel digital scope? A simple IC comparator? Hey, it's only 60 Hz, how tough could it be? A 6-1/2 digit DMM that could either be polled at intervals of a few mSec, or could be set to capture a number of readings for transfer to the PC. In either case the data could be time-stamped. Sounds like fun! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:28 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TEC party: hardware suggestion On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Achim Vollhardt avoll...@physik.uzh.ch wrote: Time-Nutties, how about using a small uC (PIC/AVR) clocked with 100ns instruction speed. Start = 1PPS from GPS, Stop = 60 Hz Edge? Use internal capture hardware to count processor cycles in between. Recently posted plots show that all you need is an AC wall wart transformer and two resistors. a uC is total overkill The xformer and resistor voltage divider works because by dumb luck the pin in the rs232 port was designed to accept a signal that looks a lot like low voltage AC and even better, already has edge detection built in. Also by dumb luck someone already wrote the software to monitor the pin's status and time stamp transitions. This really is a case of pure luck. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No more 60Hz! TEC Elimination
Folks, The Pacific Northwest National Laboratory has a couple of Grid Monitor tools as part of their Gridwise program that you can download. This gives a pretty good high resolution look at the grid frequency. (This is the frequency of the Western Interconnect.) If you're interested, check out http://gridwise.pnnl.gov/technologies/transactive_controls.stm The download buttons plus a link to a pdf on the program are in the bar on the right side under Transactive. While not the accumulated error due to TEC elimination, it will allow you to see how far off things get, not to mention see any large disturbances. There might be some interesting viewing there this summer. There is also more info available on their Gridwise program. Francis Grosz ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner
I've actually had reason to reference this IBM resource myself recently. Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of detail on the Type 37 Master. I just acquired on of these Type 37 masters and I am looking for technical information on it. I've found ONE reference on the NAWCC forums to someone who scanned the service information for it and put it on the web, but that link is no longer working. Wnd while I did send an email to the person who had it up, I have yet to hear a reply. I called up Simplex (who bought the IBM clock business) and the person I spoke to was very friendly and spent some time looking for older service information, but didn't have anything readily available for a 50 something year old clock... So, I turn to my fellow time nuts and ask if anyone here might be able to help. Incidentally, for those who have never heard of it, the Type 37 is a rather interesting clock for time nuts. It's an electro-mechanical master clock, with a nice Invar pendulum, several Telechron style 60 hz synchronous motors, AND a late 50's vintage vacuum tube radio to receive the late 50's vintage WWV signal. A commercially made radio controlled pendulum master clock, very nifty :) When this was built, WWV was broadcasting out of someplace much further east than Colorado (Maryland if memory serves) and was broadcasting time signals using what I have seen described as railroad morse code rather than today's more familiar mix of digital and analog signals. -- Russell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] live 50 Hz measurements
Pieter-Tjerk, Now that is exactly what I had pictured in my head yesterday, and the day before. The chart will give a comparison, over a long time period, of any deviation. We do the same with calibrations, when we're looking for the deviation on voltage and resistance, over a month to a year. It's really similar to the old paper chart recorders on the OCXO and Rubidium WWVB standards. This is a job well done! If you don't want to mess with the full line voltage, use a step-down type isolation transformer, and drive a LED to phottransistor IC, or just use a 1:1 isolation xformer, and use a neon like here. I think Chris mentioned using the fluorescent lights in his shop as the drive. For accuracy sake, I'd still compare the line freq. to a standard, but that's just me. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/1/2011 at 7:58 PM Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote: Hello 50 60 Hz nuts, The recent discussions here on measuring the mains frequency and phase prompted me to revive an experiment I set up some 3 years ago. Live data about the phase and frequency of the 50 Hz mains here in the Netherlands can now be viewed at: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/lichtnet/ The system consists of a simple circuit to feed the mains signal safely into an RS232 port (using a neon bulb and a phototransistor; the schematic is on the web page), and some cobbled-together software running under Linux. Regards, Pieter-Tjerk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Breguet TYPE XXII
Just got this in an e-mail from Breguet. Breguet TYPE XXII Flyback Chronograph in Steel is now available in the New York Breguet Boutique. The Breguet Type XXII chronograph offers an aesthetic reinterpretation of the legendary Type XX, but above all embodies a high-precision achievement. This creation is equipped with the first and only series-made mechanical chronograph movement with a silicon escapement and balance spring boasting a frequency raised to 10 Hz, meaning 72,000 vibrations per hour. The seconds hand performs a complete rotation in 30 seconds. 24-hour indicator and second time-zone indicator. Water resistant to 100m. Diameter 44 mm. $19,200 Now, the $19,200 is the only sticking point! See the attached photo, a really nice timekeeper. Best, Will attachment: 1.JPG___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner
I would give a try at contacting IBM's Archivist. Who ever wrote the Clock page came across as very dedicated to his or her job. -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com wrote: I've actually had reason to reference this IBM resource myself recently. Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of detail on the Type 37 Master. I just acquired on of these Type 37 masters and I am looking for technical information on it. I've found ONE reference on the NAWCC forums to someone who scanned the service information for it and put it on the web, but that link is no longer working. Wnd while I did send an email to the person who had it up, I have yet to hear a reply. I called up Simplex (who bought the IBM clock business) and the person I spoke to was very friendly and spent some time looking for older service information, but didn't have anything readily available for a 50 something year old clock... So, I turn to my fellow time nuts and ask if anyone here might be able to help. Incidentally, for those who have never heard of it, the Type 37 is a rather interesting clock for time nuts. It's an electro-mechanical master clock, with a nice Invar pendulum, several Telechron style 60 hz synchronous motors, AND a late 50's vintage vacuum tube radio to receive the late 50's vintage WWV signal. A commercially made radio controlled pendulum master clock, very nifty :) When this was built, WWV was broadcasting out of someplace much further east than Colorado (Maryland if memory serves) and was broadcasting time signals using what I have seen described as railroad morse code rather than today's more familiar mix of digital and analog signals. -- Russell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IBM TYpe 37 Master was Re: IBM's Clock Corner
Hi Pete, Thanks. Yes, I was planning to write them myself. The existence and quality of the Clock Corner site itself is pretty strong evidence that they take this sort of request very seriously... Incidentally, if you search for the Typer 37 master in the world's favorite search engine there's a link to NIST document that has a picture of a Type 37 which is supposed to be on display in Boulder somewhere :) Mine doesn't look quite as nice (it needs a little TLC) but these are very interesting clocks... More Atomic Era than atomic though. -- Russell At 12:52 PM -0700 2011/07/01, Pete Lancashire wrote: I would give a try at contacting IBM's Archivist. Who ever wrote the Clock page came across as very dedicated to his or her job. -pete On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Russell Rezaian rreza...@motorola.com wrote: I've actually had reason to reference this IBM resource myself recently. Unfortunately they don't have much in the way of detail on the Type 37 Master. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] live 50 Hz measurements
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Will Matney xfor...@citynet.net wrote: . For accuracy sake, I'd still compare the line freq. to a standard, but that's just me. If the computer used for this is also running ntpd the computer's clock is disciplined. How well depends on what ntpd is using as a reference clock. Assuming that some reasonable reference clock is being used he could in theory trace the measured frequency to GPS. But the software details are not published on the site. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz
Wouldn't the Shera controller work if you divided the 26 or 19.2 MHz OCXO into the 1 to 5 MHz range? I seem to recall that the exact frequency was not critical, just that it was in that range roughly. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 9:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Generating a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz from 10MHz To get to 1E-13 I'm thinking you may need to do it the same way you got the 10MHz Build an ovenized 26Mhz crystal oscillator and discipline it. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:33 AM, Anders Time anderst...@gmail.com wrote: I want go generate a stable 26MHz and 19.2MHz signal with stability in the 1E-13 range at 1s from my 10MHz BVA. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3737 - Release Date: 07/01/11 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters)
Hi The gotcha is that some threads get violently stomped in a few hours and others go on for weeks and weeks Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:00 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters) People are tremendously flexible, and are interested in a wide variety of things that is why they are worthy of communication. Any attempt at segregating thought into a single subject invariably fails as the creative minds, and the conversations wander. Rigid enforcement of such segregation only serves to stifle the conversation, and causes the creative juices to dry up...both on subject, and off. The proper time for the segregation is after the conversation is done, which is the function of an editor, and a search engine. If only such existed for these groups... I have always preferred to think of time-nuts as a place to go when you want to see what people that have a strong interest in the measurement of time think of various topics that are sort of related to time. -Chuck Harris Morris Odell wrote: Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I would like to propose a corollary to Godwin's Law* for technical discussion groups. I have observed that every electronics technical group I have ever belonged to (and are lots) eventually ends up discussing power distribution! This one is perhaps atypical in that the topic of RCDs has not come up yet but I'm sure if we wait long enough it will. It used to bug me but now with very cheap bandwidth I just sit back and wait for the discussion to get back to boatanchors, radio, oscilloscopes, test gear, audio, microprocessors, time nuttery or whatever. It does degrade the S/N ratio a bit though - I wonder if there's a noise-nuts out there to discuss it on :-) Morris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters
I'm with you, Hal. I am very poorly educated with respect to electrical engineering and thus find this list a great place to listen and learn. But there are a handful of folks who seemingly cannot post without bashing the government or the president or the FCC or anyone handy. IMO, this does nothing but worsen the S/N ratio. Each of us has, I am quite sure, fairly well developed opinions on the state of the nation. We're unlikely to have our views changed by bitter comments about how stupid the FCC is, what a socialist Mr. Obama is, and how requiring the use of seatbelts is part of a grand conspiracy to take away our freedoms. I will defend to the death--being a huge supporter of the first amendment--the rights of these people and anyone else to hold forth on topics in any way they wish. But it would be a good and joyful thing if they would graciously volunteer to keep their political opinions off this site. Bill On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I'd prefer one without politics. Do we need another list for the political aspects of things like this? Would the people who send the political stuff pay any attention to the no-politics policy? How? Some marine refrigerators will chill down a large mass of coolant when there is power and then shut off the compressor for up to several days. Something like this could work at home by running at night when the power is cheap. I've worked at a place where they had an air-conditioning setup like that. (I never got a tour of the machine room.) At night they cool off a huge tank of salt water. During the day, they use it to cool offices. -- That is where the power company will save money. Peak loads are expensive to power. I live in California. Peak time is summer afternoons/evenings. Afternoons when all the office complexes are running their air conditioners. Evenings when everybody gets home and turns on their air conditioners. It's also peak time for solar. A friend says he's making money after spending big $ to put a lot of solar panels on his roof. I don't know how much of that was tax dodges and/or other political distortions. He said it's important to hose them off occasionally (few weeks) or the dust buildup reduces the output. --- I have a PGE Smart Meter. They have a SmartRate program with a reduced rate most of the time but the rate goes way up from 2 to 7 PM on 15 SmartDays of their choice during the summer. They send you announcements/warnings via email and/or a phone call and it hits the local news. I don't have an air-conditioner so my usage is pretty flat (mostly PCs). I assumed flat and did the math and decided I would save a few pennies each year so I signed up. They let you change your mind retroactively for the first summer so I didn't have anything to lose. As expected, I'm saving a few pennies each year. We've already had 2 Smart Days this summer. There was a mini heat wave last week. -- I haven't noticed any pole mounted antennas in the neighborhood, but I haven't gone looking for them. It's obvious where the electric meter gets its power, but that doesn't work for the gas meter. In some other context, somebody pointed out that they just use batteries. They only have to last 10 years or so before they replace (or are willing to replace) the meter. I've been here 30 years and know they replaced it once for no reason that I know of. Then they replaced it a year or so ago for the Smart stuff. A couple of D-cell sized lithium cells is in the right ballpark. The devil is in the details. The water people are also interested. My meter is underground. Google found a few pages with things like an antenna that sticks up a bit and/or a cable that runs over to an inconspicuous antenna in the bushes or next to a fence -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
