Re: [time-nuts] GPS testing
GPS Testing January 16, 2012 aEUR January 24, 2012 Patuxent River, MD. Notice Number: NOTC3454 GPS Testing PAXR GPS 12-01 January 16, 2012 aEUR January 24, 2012 Patuxent River, MD. See attached document for more details. https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2012/Jan/PAX12-01_GPS_Flight_Ad visory.pdf Thanks for that, Peter. Good to hear that not only the UK are involved in this type of exercise, although what would happen without GPS today is interesting to contemplate! Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Again, if anyone makes PCBs PLEASE include a way to program the uP on the card without need of extra hardware. The firmware will get upgraded and not everyone has a programmer. There must be a way for end users upgrade the firmware. -- Chris Albertson .. although you can get Blaster programmers, requiring just a 10-bit header on the PC for about US $10. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Altera-FPGA-CPLD-USB-Blaster-programmer-JTAG-New-/390370232721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item5ae3e10991 and the software is free. Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Incredible! Thanks for the tip. The Arduino has a PID controller already written as a library function. Don Chris Albertson I've found yet another good way to get data into a computer. Sparkfun sells a bundle with an Arduino and a student copy of Labview for $50 total. All the analog and digital pins are pulled into LabVIEW and then you can drag and drop the signals into processing blocks and connect those to graphs and plots. It's a very painless way to connect a graphic object on the computer screen to a pin on a uP. Labview is not a permanent solution but it's a quick way to experiment and build a sophisticated PID controller without writing any code. Then later write it in C and burn into the Arduino. Using Arduino costs more but I don't have to make a PCB and you can buy one the $20 on eBay. Also it would be very easy to add an Ethernet interface and SD card for data logging. You might say Ethernet and SD cards are to complex. But, no they plug in like a Lego block and don't cost much On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Peter Bell bell.pe...@gmail.com wrote: I think lots of people have designed MCU based HPIB interfaces - the problem is that most of them are, like mine, designed to solve a specific problem and there is no subsequent incentive to clean up the documentation to the point where you wouldn't be embarrased to release it to the public - at least that's the state mine is in... On Jan 14, 2012 8:35 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 1/13/12 3:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Jim Luxjim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 1/13/12 2:51 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: $150 is $130 more than $20. It depends on if an ISA type computer shows up for free. I'm having doubts that one will. They seem to have become valuable. The machine would need to be at least a Pentium II so it could boot off the network and then mount some disk space. I know what you mean about maintenance so i don't want any disk inside and no OS installed. I'm surprised that no one has built a GPIB controller from a uP. Electrically the GPIB is simple and slow by modern standards. That's exactly what the Prologix is... a microcontroller that implements IEEE-488/GPIB with a command interface (serial port emulation with USB) Maybe what you mean is why has nobody published a design and software for free? I've been Googling, Yes there is a free published. It appears to be the very much like the Prologix. The Prologix was the next iteration of this design. http://lpvo.fe.uni-lj.si/en/**raziskave/elektronika/** podatkovni-in-merilni-**vmesniki/http://lpvo.fe.uni-lj.si/en/raziskave/elektronika/podatkovni-in-merilni-vmesniki/ Fascinating.. so basically, by spending $150 you save whatever time you'd spend buying the $50 worth of parts (which might be more by now) and assembling it. Seems a nice way to cover both ends of the user spectrum. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
And again, if a picaxe is used, the programming connection can be built-in. It takes two resistors and can use a 3-pin .1 in connector. The program can be easily read in and modified at will, no special programmers are required, just a serial port. Users can buy the picaxes from several vendors, so no preprogrammed chips have to be sent around. The latest programs could be stored by the usual suspects :-). SanDisk pinout boards are cheap from Sparkfun, so big data set storage is a snap. OTH, Chris Albertson has just tipped us off to a very rich cost effective environment, an Arduino and Labview. Got one on order, can't resist. The picaxes may have to stay in the drawer for this app. . . Don David J Taylor Again, if anyone makes PCBs PLEASE include a way to program the uP on the card without need of extra hardware. The firmware will get upgraded and not everyone has a programmer. There must be a way for end users upgrade the firmware. -- Chris Albertson .. although you can get Blaster programmers, requiring just a 10-bit header on the PC for about US $10. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Altera-FPGA-CPLD-USB-Blaster-programmer-JTAG-New-/390370232721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item5ae3e10991 and the software is free. Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
I have no expertise when it comes to filter design or programming PIC's or other micro controllers. But I know what works for me. For 11 years I have been using Shera controllers with very good results. (I still have some new assembled extra AA boards, if any one is interested, please contact me off list) Over the years I have made hardware work around's and made my own boards ending up with 120 and 240 samples and 100 MHz clock in stead of 24 MHz. Over time chips are harder to get. The solution is an Altera MAX 3000 gate array and that input circuit can be implemented on a $ 2 100 MHz version or $ 5 200 MHz version using either a 100 MHz or 200 MHz clock. That circuit works with the present Shera PIC but that is a 28 pin $ 4 device. Since in this application the controller does not have to be all things for all devices it would make sense to use a PIC16F688 or any other 14 pin device. Brooks, if so inclined could do it or some one else if he would allow it. For my personal use I can live with the present PIC and the work around's that I have incorporated. The result is a $ 35 solution using an analog output. I have laid out a board that once I know the pin assignments I will gladly have made and furnish with G/A to the individual that will do the design. An analog portion with opto couplers is also included. The Gate Array solution is thanks to Juerg Koegel, a list member that has worked with me on the Dual Mixer. The analog portion has been fully functioning for two years but I had not found some one to test the counter part with Ulrich's or Stable 32 plotter. Thanks to Juerg that is now done. Found out that I had made a mistake in my thought process but we now have a fully functioning counter with nice plotting results. Again thanks to Juerg a G/A have replaced logic chips that soon may be hard to get. The first boards are in and test results will be available soon. This is a 2 channel counter in the ping pong mode that can be switched from period to phase allowing set up with out the use of any other counter. 1 E-15 and 5 E-16 will be available. Juerg is also helping me with the what I call the Austron circuit allowing 1E-12 resolution in one second. The first unit was a direct copy of the Austron 2110 circuit using a dual stage Xtal filter the next one will use a DDS for the offset. This will happen after the 5 channel counter test which will allow cross correlation and 3 corner hat testing. Board is laid and G/A's designed but we are waiting till the 2 channel is fully tested. Juerg is also working on an interface board that will have a LCD display and USB memory stick interface. That allows the D/M be operated independent of a PC with plotting done by the PC after the test run, transferring the data with the USB stick. RS232 or blue tooth is also an option. Richard McCorkle was key in the design of the counters, thanks to his PIC expertise. With out him the low cost solution would not have been possible. This work will be followed by the Austron circuit and hopefully by a low cost control loop. Questions have been asked as to what I use for frequency testing. Because of my work on signal generators I rely heavily on a HP 5345A counter that gives me 40 GHz measurement capability. It with its internal 500MHz reciprocal counting capability injecting noise into the 500 MHz it allows me 1 E -12 over 1000 seconds. Combined with the Tracor 527E I can get 1 E-16 with the last two digits of not much use. I like the 1000 sec gate time since it in effect does some averaging. My testing of the 56680A is done with the 5345 with out the Tracor. I also use the Austron 2110 for longer time testing. In the past it was tied to Loran C now to Tbolt. As frequency sources I use a HP 5061 B, HP 5062 C a FRK-H using a Shera controller and Tbolt. The FRK is presently out on loan. In the past I used a GPS receiver, now I use the Tbolt. The plan is to have it tested against a Maser. I hope this answers a lot of questions. What is needed is that some one steps up to the plate and does the controller. To me the appeal is the $15 solution. Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:59:03 + gonzo . cadbl...@hotmail.com wrote: yes, I'm certainly getting the boards made where production is cheap. Other things seem to be cheap there too; like used Rb Osc! I'm paying just under $3 per board (double sided, plated through, solder mask both sides, silk screen both sides). If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be able to sell them for $10 with components. [...] I've sent you the CAD files so you can have a play. Thanks a lot! I had a look at the files... The lowest i get is eurocircuits with apporx 9EUR/pce @ 10 pieces and 5.5EUR/pce @ 20. There is no way i can match your price at these low batch sizes. Much less with the parts too... BTW: How hot does IC2, the TS1117 run? It seems to have an awfully small cooling copper area. BTW2: Your board is marked as 15V input voltage. But the LM137 needs 2V voltage difference at these currents. Ie it needs at least 17V if not 18V input voltage. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
Just a FYI, this GOES system has way more sites feeding it than that website. The fire weather sites near me have the same setup. The Desert Research Institute in CA and NV ditto. Some of the DRI sites are on 10 minute intervals, though perhaps they don't feed ever 10 minutes. I found one of those sites feeding data from where an underground spring pops out. I'm amazed there is enough bandwidth for all the sites I've found. And as you indicated, timing is everything here. You get your slot to send the data. --Original Message-- From: Rich and Marcia Putz Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com ReplyTo: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor Sent: Jan 13, 2012 3:37 PM Fellow nutters; A comment on something posted earlier today. I know this is off topic,(except for the time-stamp-GPS anteena comment ;-)) but the web site http://water.weather. gov/ahps/ lists all the hydrologic monitors around the county. There are two near here with the crossed yagis pointing at what I would imagine is some GOES satellite. These have solar panels, but I've not noticed a GPR antenna, perhaps I shall look a little closer next time I goes by them. Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
In message 1883277640-1326563411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2071 435797-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry, li...@lazygranch.com writes: And as you indicated, timing is everything here. You get your slot to send the data. I thought I read somewhere that it was a polled system, where the satellite tells the stations when their chance is ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Here is a common misconception. Most consumer grade 24bit sound cards only have 16 bit ADCs but 24 bit equivalent DACs (most of them are actually 1bit DAC with oversampling.) You have to spend a pretty penny to get a 24 bit ADC running at multiples of 44ks/s. Further, the very poor DC performance of the typically sound card 16 bit ADC is hidden by the analog and digital filtering of the card and the driver. If anyone has an inexpensive ($100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I have been looking for one. Didier KO4BB PS: to remain on topic, I agree with the principle of using a PC to breadboard something, as long as the hardware interface remains simpler than a cheap microcontroller, bit it is easy to get carried away and build PC-based hardware for the purpose of running a test, and having to redo all from scratch to convert it to a uC solution for the final application. Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:15:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of all. Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half. For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC. If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source. Bert Kehren Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit ADC chips. Later you can move the C code from the PC pretty much directly to an AVR. PICs typically use assembly language, that is harder and limits the number of people who can contribute changes to the code. But you can start with a PC, maybe running Linux or BSD. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
In message 1813878810-1326568434-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1602 959624-@b17.c24.bise6.blackberry, shali...@gmail.com writes: If anyone has an inexpensive ($100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I have been looking for one. Check out the ADUC 7061 chip from analog: ARM7 + 2x24bit ADC. The ADC ony does 8ksps and generally levels out around 21 bits, but still very interesting for many purposes, in particular because of the built in chopper. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Silabs has a uC, I think it is the C8051F350 but I may be wrong, that has a 24 bit ADC with 1-128 gain PGA and offset DAC (and two 8 bit DACs). Most their chips are available already soldered to a small development board called Toolstick that typically costs $10. You will also need a $20 base Adapter (the USB programmer/debugger) You can use the demo Keil compiler, but it is severely crippled, so instead I recommend the free SDCC. Silabs has lots of sample software for their chips, and an excellent (free) IDE/debugger that supports Keil, SDCC and other compilers. I do have an article on the wiki on my web site about it www.ko4bb.com I also have a page about a simple audio generator using an 8051 as DDS on my web site that describes the tools I use and how to configure the IDE for SDCC. Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:37:13 To: time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question On 1/13/12 8:15 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM,ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of all. Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half. For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC. If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source. Bert Kehren Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit ADC chips. But those audio inputs are almost always AC coupled. Bringing up a question: Does anyone know of a cheap ($20ish) USB voltage sensor (16 bits or better, ideally).. I can see one of those Atmel USB capable micros (like the one on the Arduino Uno) hooked to a dual slope or successive approximation ADC. There seem to be an amazing number of times that I want something like that. The DATAQ $29 widget is only 10 bits, unfortunately. A USB interface DMM would work nicely, but I haven't found one that's in the under $50 price range. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
I pulled this off the GOES manual. --- Generally, GOES telemetry involves one-way communication: a remote site transmits data periodically to the satellite, but the satellite does not send information to the remote site. Although GOES satellites have transmitters that make downlink communication possible, these features are rarely used because the associated receiving equipment at the surface site would double the cost and complexity of the telemetry equipment. Consequently, you must visit the site to change operating protocols and perform such tasks as resetting the YESDAS clock if its drift becomes too great. --Original Message-- From: Poul-Henning Kamp To: li...@lazygranch.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor Sent: Jan 14, 2012 11:00 AM In message 1883277640-1326563411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2071 435797-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry, li...@lazygranch.com writes: And as you indicated, timing is everything here. You get your slot to send the data. I thought I read somewhere that it was a polled system, where the satellite tells the stations when their chance is ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Didier, check the HPSDR Janus baseband interface and related bits. It's a very good ADC on a board designed with time-nuttish care and can do up 192ksps. The downside is that it doesn't have a soundcard interface; the upside is that the hardware and SDR software that alkmto it are all open source. http://openhpsdr.org/janus.php John On Jan 14, 2012, at 2:13 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a common misconception. Most consumer grade 24bit sound cards only have 16 bit ADCs but 24 bit equivalent DACs (most of them are actually 1bit DAC with oversampling.) You have to spend a pretty penny to get a 24 bit ADC running at multiples of 44ks/s. Further, the very poor DC performance of the typically sound card 16 bit ADC is hidden by the analog and digital filtering of the card and the driver. If anyone has an inexpensive ($100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I have been looking for one. Didier KO4BB PS: to remain on topic, I agree with the principle of using a PC to breadboard something, as long as the hardware interface remains simpler than a cheap microcontroller, bit it is easy to get carried away and build PC-based hardware for the purpose of running a test, and having to redo all from scratch to convert it to a uC solution for the final application. Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:15:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of all. Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half. For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC. If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source. Bert Kehren Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit ADC chips. Later you can move the C code from the PC pretty much directly to an AVR. PICs typically use assembly language, that is harder and limits the number of people who can contribute changes to the code. But you can start with a PC, maybe running Linux or BSD. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
On 01/14/2012 08:00 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message1883277640-1326563411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2071 435797-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry, li...@lazygranch.com writes: And as you indicated, timing is everything here. You get your slot to send the data. I thought I read somewhere that it was a polled system, where the satellite tells the stations when their chance is ? Well, following the links I found this: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oh/hads/internal/ Check section 1. As I undestand it from my very very brief reading you have timed messages and random messages, but none of them is polled. I'm sure someone can do a more serious homework than I just did. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
This is a remote site I photographed recently. They use both GOES and CDMA cellular. Digital telephony is tricky for these apps since it is no longer a case of line of sight. Digital telephony has timing constraints. http://www.lazygranch.com/images/a51pan/oct2011/dri.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:32:15 -0500, EWKehren-YDxpq3io04c wrote: I hope this answers a lot of questions. What is needed is that some one steps up to the plate and does the controller. To me the appeal is the $15 solution. Bert Kehren This might be a serious overkill But it has built in jtag - AD DAC can run 168Mhz , has 32bit timers (TIC) and serious horsepower http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp $20 http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/2484058-eval-kit-stm32f-discovery-stm32f4discovery.html CFO (Time nut beginner) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT re, Sacramento River Monitor
Interesting. Thanks for posting this. There was also a reference re the usage of gps to time the transmission times. Sent from my iPod On 2012-01-14, at 2:54 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 01/14/2012 08:00 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message1883277640-1326563411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2071 435797-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry, li...@lazygranch.com writes: And as you indicated, timing is everything here. You get your slot to send the data. I thought I read somewhere that it was a polled system, where the satellite tells the stations when their chance is ? Well, following the links I found this: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oh/hads/internal/ Check section 1. As I undestand it from my very very brief reading you have timed messages and random messages, but none of them is polled. I'm sure someone can do a more serious homework than I just did. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board
Hi Attila, thanks for your comments. On the schematic the inputs are listed as supply (ie. +15V_SUPPLY and +5V_SUPPLY), where as the outputs of the regs are marked with their actual voltages. The boards silk screen on the other hand lists the inputs as 7V and 17V. In my original post I said I'd used the LM317 from the Eagle library, but infact use the pin compatible LM1084 (Eagle doesn't know about the LM1084). The LM1084 is a 5A device (vs 1.5A:LM317) with 1.5V LDO (vs 2.5V:LM317), so 17V is an acceptable minimum input. Heatsinking of the LM/TS/AMS1117 is not generious and it does run hot when SJ1 is shorted and the board is running with a single supply (15V input to the 5VReg). I have added more heatsink ares to the V1.1 board, but the '1117is rated to 800mA and is only loaded to 10% so I don't think it is a problem. It is worth remembering that the boards I'm offering are simply the left overs from my own use (V1.0 board at least) and was never intended to be fully idiot proof. Fortunatly, this list seems to be an idiot free corner of the internet Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:21:57 +0100 From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board Message-ID: 20120114162157.408e651b.att...@kinali.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:59:03 + gonzo . cadbl...@hotmail.com wrote: yes, I'm certainly getting the boards made where production is cheap. Other things seem to be cheap there too; like used Rb Osc! I'm paying just under $3 per board (double sided, plated through, solder mask both sides, silk screen both sides). If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be able to sell them for $10 with components. [...] I've sent you the CAD files so you can have a play. Thanks a lot! I had a look at the files... The lowest i get is eurocircuits with apporx 9EUR/pce @ 10 pieces and 5.5EUR/pce @ 20. There is no way i can match your price at these low batch sizes. Much less with the parts too... BTW: How hot does IC2, the TS1117 run? It seems to have an awfully small cooling copper area. BTW2: Your board is marked as 15V input voltage. But the LM137 needs 2V voltage difference at these currents. Ie it needs at least 17V if not 18V input voltage. Attila Kinali -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Adding adjustment pot to 5680
Just did the pot addition to my FE5086 and it works very well The systems still warming up and its actually apart with external heat sinks for cooling so I can get to places. Hitting 8.6 ^ -12 after first eyeball adjustment on the scope drifting 5 ns in 9:36 minutes. Time to flip from scope mode to 5371 counter ns drift timing so I don't have to stick around. Hardest part is attaching the 100K resistor to the ic. Boy thats small. I plan to bring the leads out through the fake pot hole to a nice 10 turn pot for control. I also have counters for the pots. I also do not have the 1 pps out. Not that it matters to me actually. I did probe around looking just for the heck of it and no luck. Further updates Created a excel drift calculator for use with readouts from 5371 counter. Final setting so far 4.76E-12. Clearly on my unit the pot I am using could be better and I need to adjust the range for about 0-3vdc. Had been using the 8 V regulated supply. Thanks David and Arthur for the thread and mod. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.comwrote: Look forward doing other tests like voltage sensitivity and bringing out the C field for external adjustment. EWKehren at aol.com ++ But how do you adjust the RgO output frequency? That's why I asked if A DDS would be used. Nevermind. I just found it. The RgO cell can be frequency adjusted magnetically. David + I decribed the very simple way I added an external EFC feature to my 5680A unit using a pin in the DB-9 connector that was freed-up after I installed an internal +5V regulator inside the 5680A so I only needed a single +15V supply to power the 5680A. Check my post of Mon Jan 9 21:06:12 UTC 2012 to see what I did using Bill Riches information where he described connected an internal pot. The new EFC pin 'floats' at 2.5V and 0-5V works fine to adjust the frequency slightly. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
That is a serious little processor for that kind of money. On 1/14/2012 4:26 PM, cfo wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:32:15 -0500, EWKehren-YDxpq3io04c wrote: I hope this answers a lot of questions. What is needed is that some one steps up to the plate and does the controller. To me the appeal is the $15 solution. Bert Kehren This might be a serious overkill But it has built in jtag - AD DAC can run 168Mhz , has 32bit timers (TIC) and serious horsepower http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp $20 http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/2484058-eval-kit-stm32f-discovery-stm32f4discovery.html CFO (Time nut beginner) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
On 01/14/2012 01:32 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I have no expertise when it comes to filter design or programming PIC's or other micro controllers. But I know what works for me. For 11 years I have been using Shera controllers with very good results. (I still have some new assembled extra AA boards, if any one is interested, please contact me off list) Designing a PI-regulator in digital is pretty simple and works well. The core routine that needs to be run at the steady sample rate is this: Ph = getPD(); FI = FI + I*Ph; F = FI + P*Ph; outputFreq(F); where I and P gives the steering properties of the PI regulator. There is a few things to consider, such as the scaling and width. An implementational benefit of the above is that the integrator steering is done prior to the integrator, which makes the integrator state FI have static dynamics in relationship to the steering parameter I, which is practical as change of I (which is typically useful to change bandwidth) will not require rescaling of FI to maintain the same frequency. The relationship between P and I sets the damping factor of the loop. The loop bandwidth changes with the square root of I. It's not too hard to use a quick track-in mode with higher bandwidth and then scale it to slower mode. To achieve a quicker track-in of far-distance, diffrentiating the phase over time can be done, and then feed the integrator loop the scaled difference. That way will the frequency difference measured (complete with phase-wraps) steer the frequency state of the integrator and once the FLL is well tracked in the phase tracking just takes over. The FLL part can then be removed to reduce disturbances. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] New unit of time measurement
Dear nuts, I would like to propose a new unit of time, the 'textsecond'. This is the interval of time from the time the signal light turns green to when the driver behind the idiot texting driver honks their horn. Still collecting data on its exact length, but seeing a lot more examples lately. I'm sure there is probably a much more clever name (and there are a lot of clever time-nuts out there). However, I don't want this comment on social behaviour to blossom into a lengthy OT thread. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:32 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I have no expertise when it comes to filter design or programming PIC's or other micro controllers. But I know what works for me. For 11 years I have been using Shera controllers with very good results. (I still have some new assembled extra AA boards, if any one is interested, please contact me off list) Over the years I have made hardware work around's and made my own boards ending up with 120 and 240 samples and 100 MHz clock in stead of 24 MHz. Over time chips are harder to get. The solution is an Altera MAX 3000 gate array and that input circuit can be implemented on a $ 2 100 MHz version or $ 5 200 MHz version using either a 100 MHz or 200 MHz clock. That circuit works with the present Shera PIC but that is a 28 pin $ 4 device. Since in this application the controller does not have to be all things for all devices it would make sense to use a PIC16F688 or any other 14 pin device. Have you thought about putting the PIC _INSIDE_ the Altera FPGA? It's a common trick to implement a microcontroller in the FPGA and you can get the code for just about any CPU core online. Here is an example of virtual PIC: http://www.embeddedtronics.com/pic_core.html If the PIC fits inside then that is one less chip on the PCB. The example above found that could run the virtual PIC a little faster than a real pic so you don't give up any performance -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:26 PM, cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:32:15 -0500, EWKehren-YDxpq3io04c wrote: I hope this answers a lot of questions. What is needed is that some one steps up to the plate and does the controller. To me the appeal is the $15 solution. I'm working on this, slowly. But when I'm done it won't be $15, for like $50 or $70. I'll use a small general purpose uP development board. I don't want to design a PCB. The above is the second version. The first version will be done using LabVIEW on a 27 inch iMac using a PicTic II as the phase detector. If you've not seen Labview have a look here http://www.ni.com/labview/whatis/ Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
Not over kill at all. It is worth paying a few $$ not to have to design a PCB. Worse then that is that most will take shortcuts and design it so that you need a sppepcial IC programmer to program the PIC. Thee $20 development boards allow you to download the firmware over USB so users can do it themselves. I'm looking at this pair of boards: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoEthernetShield http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardUno Ethernet and and SD card slot might seem overkill too. But I want to track performance, read out the phase difference over time and so one. So I want to be able to connect a desktop computer and a USB cable is to short. Ethernet will let me check from work or with my phone. the SD card can be used to log data. Likely hold a two years of data on a 8GB card. I want to try and apply the saw tooth correction from the GPS. For that I will need a uP that cad read data from the Thunderbolt's or the Oncore's serial port. One important thing. It would be good if the software where easy to modify be most normal people. My hope is that if it is easy enough then several people will and they will share their work. The Arduino is very east to program. On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:26 PM, cfo xne...@luna.kyed.com wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:32:15 -0500, EWKehren-YDxpq3io04c wrote: I hope this answers a lot of questions. What is needed is that some one steps up to the plate and does the controller. To me the appeal is the $15 solution. Bert Kehren This might be a serious overkill But it has built in jtag - AD DAC can run 168Mhz , has 32bit timers (TIC) and serious horsepower http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp $20 http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/2484058-eval-kit-stm32f-discovery-stm32f4discovery.html CFO (Time nut beginner) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: And again, if a picaxe is used, the programming connection can be built-in. It takes two resistors and can use a 3-pin .1 in connector. The program can be easily read in and modified at will, no special programmers are required, just a serial port. Users can buy the picaxes from several vendors, so no preprogrammed chips have to be sent around. The latest programs could be stored by the usual suspects :-). SanDisk pinout boards are cheap from Sparkfun, so big data set storage is a snap. OTH, Chris Albertson has just tipped us off to a very rich cost effective environment, an Arduino and Labview. Got one on order, can't resist. The picaxes may have to stay in the drawer for this app. . . Don A PICAXE is a PIC with a boot loader preprogrammed into it. Arduino is an AVR with a boot loader preprogrammed into it. I like the AVR because it uses the very same GCC C/C++ compiler I use for everything else. I can test _some_ things on the desktop computer then recompile on the AVR.The Arduino is simply an AVR, on a standardized PCB. The decision to standardize means that you can buy standard daughter cards. You can build exotic stuff like web controlled stepper motor drivers with no soldering. I was very surprised to find the Labview bundle. It is normally a $5,000 package. But then I looked and found the Student version of Labview is always $20. And they don't ask if you are a student. (Actually however I am, at age 50+ I enrolled in the local community collage, music department.) I'm never afraid of overkill on a one up project. The last big embedded hobby system I worked on has an astronomical camera. One thing you have to do with a CCD image sensor is clock the charge off the chip then route it to an ADC. I used a full size desktop PC running Real Time Linux to generate the clocks or the CCD. Gross overkill but I could telnet into the camera controller and look around inside even with the camera on the other coast 2,000 miles away. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New unit of time measurement
In message ca+oswyx_8bx+ryrjlgvrynmn771xwha0vp1okr90lmk_rzc...@mail.gmail.com , Skip Withrow writes: I would like to propose a new unit of time, the 'textsecond'. This is the interval of time from the time the signal light turns green to when the driver behind the idiot texting driver honks their horn. Still collecting data on its exact length, but seeing a lot more examples lately. You are not the first researcher of this interesting phenomena: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/cellphone-ban-would-be-a-distraction/2011/12/16/gIQAdv2GyO_story.html -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
