Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
And the op manual is at: http://books.google.com/books?id=Hoc-YAAJprintsec=frontcoversource=gbs_ge_summary_rcad=0#v=onepageqf=false J. Forster American Time Products still exists: http://www.powercontroldevices.com/about-us/ ATP has also been closely connected to Buliva, makers of the Accutron. -John Amazing, the things that can be picked out of the noise. I have one of these frequency standards, but it belonged to the US Dept. of Commerce, during the period 1965 to 1970 when the DoC was given the weather bureau, named Environmental Science Services (ESSA). It was last calibrated 9-27-72, after ESSA became NOAA. The schematic on the cover of the cable box, inside the door, has the schematic for Frequency Standard TS-65C/FMQ-1 The box contains two cables, one with a PL-259 and one with a BNC connector. The name tag says Type 2509-2 Ser 140 made by American Time Products in New York, licensed under Western Electric patents. ATP made timing chart devices for setting the correct rate for a wrist or pocket watch. Google has nothing for ATP, but a search for TS-65C/FMQ-1 has one by Newton Time Products, which had negative search results. My device works, 60 Hz reads 60.06, which is 0.1%, but the 10 and 20 Hz ranges unaccountably have no output. Abe Books has a manual for $5. Since I'm cleaning out, this mechanical marvel is yours for the cost of shipping 24 pounds in a 12x12x20 box from Minneapolis 55438. It goes on the scrap truck Thursday if no one wants old stuff, as usual. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
And here's the manual http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-11-6625-407-24P.pdf J. Forster Self generating, therefore selenium (or possibly silicon). There is no bias so it's not a photoconductor. I'm sure it's called out in the -24P manual. -John === Thank you everyone for your comments, and if I've got it right Brooke, if you paste this into your browser: http://www.flickr.com//photos/75ohm/sets/72157629019710615/show/ you should get a quick tour and a movie! This is indeed a tuning fork driving a synchronous motor that has a perforated disc on its shaft. The whole unit operates as it should and the quality of manufacture is superb, so I'm reluctant to pull it apart but I am curious as to the type of photocell it uses. It seems very small and the dates on many of the components suggest manufacture in the mid to late 1950s so what was around to do the job at that time? There is no cathode bias on the voltage amplifier that it feeds which suggests it s Photovoltaic rather than Photoconductive. Thanks again for your replies, John H. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:34, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi John: Is there a photo of the freq std on line? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html John Howell wrote: Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
It's for calibrating a radiosonde recorder. J. Forster American Time Products still exists: http://www.powercontroldevices.com/about-us/ ATP has also been closely connected to Buliva, makers of the Accutron. -John Amazing, the things that can be picked out of the noise. I have one of these frequency standards, but it belonged to the US Dept. of Commerce, during the period 1965 to 1970 when the DoC was given the weather bureau, named Environmental Science Services (ESSA). It was last calibrated 9-27-72, after ESSA became NOAA. The schematic on the cover of the cable box, inside the door, has the schematic for Frequency Standard TS-65C/FMQ-1 The box contains two cables, one with a PL-259 and one with a BNC connector. The name tag says Type 2509-2 Ser 140 made by American Time Products in New York, licensed under Western Electric patents. ATP made timing chart devices for setting the correct rate for a wrist or pocket watch. Google has nothing for ATP, but a search for TS-65C/FMQ-1 has one by Newton Time Products, which had negative search results. My device works, 60 Hz reads 60.06, which is 0.1%, but the 10 and 20 Hz ranges unaccountably have no output. Abe Books has a manual for $5. Since I'm cleaning out, this mechanical marvel is yours for the cost of shipping 24 pounds in a 12x12x20 box from Minneapolis 55438. It goes on the scrap truck Thursday if no one wants old stuff, as usual. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Oh Lord, I gotta have one! It's obviously a mil-spec version of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4 Don J. Forster Self generating, therefore selenium (or possibly silicon). There is no bias so it's not a photoconductor. I'm sure it's called out in the -24P manual. -John === Thank you everyone for your comments, and if I've got it right Brooke, if you paste this into your browser: http://www.flickr.com//photos/75ohm/sets/72157629019710615/show/ you should get a quick tour and a movie! This is indeed a tuning fork driving a synchronous motor that has a perforated disc on its shaft. The whole unit operates as it should and the quality of manufacture is superb, so I'm reluctant to pull it apart but I am curious as to the type of photocell it uses. It seems very small and the dates on many of the components suggest manufacture in the mid to late 1950s so what was around to do the job at that time? There is no cathode bias on the voltage amplifier that it feeds which suggests it s Photovoltaic rather than Photoconductive. Thanks again for your replies, John H. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:34, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi John: Is there a photo of the freq std on line? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html John Howell wrote: Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] establishing your position w/o gps
Finding your location without GPS is not all that difficult. You need a quality theodolite, but even an ordinary one will read to 1 second of arc. You observe circumpolar stars at night to obtain a true azimuth. (North and South) and also the latitude by the inclination of the pole. On a time photograph these stars draw circles around the pole, the centre of the circle is the celestial pole and its elevation above the horizon gives the latitude. You can also use an almanac and a calendar to determine your latitude by observing stars with the theodolite. You observe the sun at noon to find the local time and set your local clock. You then wait for an event like an eclipse of a planets moons to establish the relationship between your local time and the time at a known site. A theodolite has a telescope that can be plunged i.e. used upside down and this technique is used to get a very accurate level from a striding level. No pool of mercury is needed. The setting up of a theodolite uses sitings and reversed sitings to set the vertical level. The main error is the atmospheric refraction which scatters individual observations, so many repeated observations are needed. The local time observations need to be repeated for good accuracy. A sextant is a less accurate instrument that has the main redeeming feature that when reading it you superimpose the image of a star or the sun with the image of the horizon. Although the image seen may be rolling around, the position of the sun on the horizon is rock steady and is adjusted by the thimble for coincidence. The elevation is then read off the vernier. A theodolite needs a solid base to work from and would be useless on a ship. cheers, Neville Michie On 25/01/2012, at 12:52 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 1/24/12 3:19 PM, J. Forster wrote: Is the USNO almana/ephemeris still published in hard copy every year? That had moon timing, etc. You can download pieces from the Astronomical Applications website at USNO. Or you can buy a copy of the Nautical Almanac for about $20 from a variety of sources. You could also download the pdf (but printing it would cost you more than the $20).. Amazon has it, for instance. http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/ publications/naut-almanac will find it, but the GPO version is more expensive than the commercial versions.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
It appears to be a Bradley Lab #6A, Alan Bradley is now part of Rockwell Automation. John. O,n 25 Jan 2012, at 05:18, J. Forster wrote: Self generating, therefore selenium (or possibly silicon). There is no bias so it's not a photoconductor. I'm sure it's called out in the -24P manual. -John === Thank you everyone for your comments, and if I've got it right Brooke, if you paste this into your browser: http://www.flickr.com//photos/75ohm/sets/72157629019710615/show/ you should get a quick tour and a movie! This is indeed a tuning fork driving a synchronous motor that has a perforated disc on its shaft. The whole unit operates as it should and the quality of manufacture is superb, so I'm reluctant to pull it apart but I am curious as to the type of photocell it uses. It seems very small and the dates on many of the components suggest manufacture in the mid to late 1950s so what was around to do the job at that time? There is no cathode bias on the voltage amplifier that it feeds which suggests it s Photovoltaic rather than Photoconductive. Thanks again for your replies, John H. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:34, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi John: Is there a photo of the freq std on line? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html John Howell wrote: Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Precise position measument...
Just for your interest ___ First laser measurements of Europe's Galileo satellites made from Chile [ http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Operations/SEM6HT7XZVG_0.html ] 15-12-2011 06:00 AM CET The first laser ranging of Europe's new Galileo navigation satellites has been achieved from Concepción in Chile. Laser contact with the satellites at an altitude of 23 230 km has provided distance measurements with subcentimetre accuracy. ___ Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
But it misses every other data point after you start the acquisition? No, every second, the data are acquisite because the shape of the ADEV line on display change due the algoritm. So, I suppose I acquire all the data are incoming, one per second. The trouble is the X axis avance only one time every two seconds. That's strange -- if you can get both the talk-only driver and the native 531xA driver working, I'd be curious to hear if the same thing happens in both cases. I don't immediately see how it could correctly receive one line per second in 'Monitor' mode while missing every other sample during acquisition, so it would be good to know which driver you're using. I am not using any external driver. I mean I use your Instrument selection in Timelab menu. I am not able to do more complicated tests. Thanks for your time spending. Luciano Sent to you using Uebimiau Webmail version 3.11 Developed by Dave and Todd at http://www.manvel.net and http://www.tdah.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] establishing your position w/o gps
Finding your location without GPS is not all that difficult. You need a quality theodolite, but even an ordinary one will read to 1 second of arc. Ordinary? You mean something like a Wild T-2 or Kern DKM-2. Even then getting close to 1 arc-second requires a lot of care. You observe circumpolar stars at night to obtain a true azimuth. (North and South) and also the latitude by the inclination of the pole. Not quite so straight forward. You have to have accurate siderial time and an almanac. Polaris is only near the pole, not at it. On a time photograph these stars draw circles around the pole, the centre of the circle is the celestial pole and its elevation above the horizon gives the latitude. You can also use an almanac and a calendar to determine your latitude by observing stars with the theodolite. Not so easy. At the celestial equator the stars are moving in Hour Angle at 15 arc-seconds per second. -John == You observe the sun at noon to find the local time and set your local clock. You then wait for an event like an eclipse of a planets moons to establish the relationship between your local time and the time at a known site. A theodolite has a telescope that can be plunged i.e. used upside down and this technique is used to get a very accurate level from a striding level. No pool of mercury is needed. The setting up of a theodolite uses sitings and reversed sitings to set the vertical level. The main error is the atmospheric refraction which scatters individual observations, so many repeated observations are needed. The local time observations need to be repeated for good accuracy. A sextant is a less accurate instrument that has the main redeeming feature that when reading it you superimpose the image of a star or the sun with the image of the horizon. Although the image seen may be rolling around, the position of the sun on the horizon is rock steady and is adjusted by the thimble for coincidence. The elevation is then read off the vernier. A theodolite needs a solid base to work from and would be useless on a ship. cheers, Neville Michie On 25/01/2012, at 12:52 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 1/24/12 3:19 PM, J. Forster wrote: Is the USNO almana/ephemeris still published in hard copy every year? That had moon timing, etc. You can download pieces from the Astronomical Applications website at USNO. Or you can buy a copy of the Nautical Almanac for about $20 from a variety of sources. You could also download the pdf (but printing it would cost you more than the $20).. Amazon has it, for instance. http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/ publications/naut-almanac will find it, but the GPO version is more expensive than the commercial versions.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers
John, How about these on EBay, Item : 110803140186 Cheap and plenty in stock. I've just ordered 4 to experiment with. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: 24 January 2012 18:08 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers Several years ago eBay offered some nice amplifier blocks that went up to 500 MHz with about 10dB gain and 25dBm maximum output. The part number on the unit is Harris 0130-211013, but they were sold as Qbit 512. I got a couple back then, and would now like to find two or three more to use in a project. Of course, the eBay source is long gone. There's not much in the way of Google hits other than the page I put up with some test results. Anyone have any of these squirreled away, or know where any might be found? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
Hi Based on the number of units that come in with the 1 pps output missing, I'd bet the $40 FE5680's were used only for the 10 MHz output. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:14 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps On 01/25/2012 02:41 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Darn. I was hoping for that feature. I still think it should be there. Indeed. Should be in there somewhere... Didn't see these link hit the list: http://pastebin.com/S8UcnCMZ http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%200_7.pd f http://vk2xv.djirra.com/tech_rubidium.htm Looking at the last one it says: NOTE: Although this unit is marked with both 10MHz and 1pps, research on the 'net seems to indicate that the '1pps' output has only a period of exactly 1 second when the frequency is set to 223 Hz (8.388608Mhz). According to those sources the '1pps' will have a period of 0.8388608 seconds when the output frequency is set to 10MHz. This should be easy to verify. In any case I have no need for a 1pps output - I use a GPS module to get a 1pps signal which also has the advantage of being in-phase with real time seconds. Now... to speed-adjust the PPS phase, use the DDS and steer it intentionally of frequence with sufficient delta frequence for suitable time and you should home in pretty quickly. Hunting some more: http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/PROJ/Ruby.htm Without modification the units have just one output - 1pps (1 Hz). There is a simple modification to extract 8388.608 kHz, which is of course 223 Hz, and this frequency is used, through binary division, to generate the 1pps output. The 8388.608 kHz output is generated by a 32-bit Direct Digital Synthesizer chip (AD9830). This output can be steered to any other frequency within the operating range, by interacting with the controlling microcontroller, with three provisos: 1. The unit has a peaked filter at the synthesizer output, and so the level at other frequencies varies wildly. This can be corrected with minor modifications. 2. When operating at any other frequency than 8388.608kHz, the 1pps output is of course incorrect. 3. The synthesizer operating frequency can be set to within ±5 mHz (milliHertz) of the requested frequency, - but ONLY if the calculations, on which the command sent to it is based, correctly use 32-bit maths. Which is a confirmation... http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:rubidium_oscillat ors So, this would work for the 50,255+ MHz based FE 5680A. For 60 MHz variants it works a little different, but it has two MCUs sitting there, so some use for theme should there be. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
Magnus, Thanks for the research. Now that I have read your information, I am going to have to go back and 'measure' the PPS output on my unit. I just 'eyeballed' the '1 PPS' and it seemed close to 1 second. It would be nice to find a serial command that would allow placing the 1 PPS at any arbitrary point in phase to match GPS. My impression of reading the posts about the FE-5680A is that the 1 PPS is likely there, just not easily documented. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:43 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps Hi Based on the number of units that come in with the 1 pps output missing, I'd bet the $40 FE5680's were used only for the 10 MHz output. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:14 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps On 01/25/2012 02:41 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Darn. I was hoping for that feature. I still think it should be there. Indeed. Should be in there somewhere... Didn't see these link hit the list: http://pastebin.com/S8UcnCMZ http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%200_7.pd f http://vk2xv.djirra.com/tech_rubidium.htm Looking at the last one it says: NOTE: Although this unit is marked with both 10MHz and 1pps, research on the 'net seems to indicate that the '1pps' output has only a period of exactly 1 second when the frequency is set to 223 Hz (8.388608Mhz). According to those sources the '1pps' will have a period of 0.8388608 seconds when the output frequency is set to 10MHz. This should be easy to verify. In any case I have no need for a 1pps output - I use a GPS module to get a 1pps signal which also has the advantage of being in-phase with real time seconds. Now... to speed-adjust the PPS phase, use the DDS and steer it intentionally of frequence with sufficient delta frequence for suitable time and you should home in pretty quickly. Hunting some more: http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/PROJ/Ruby.htm Without modification the units have just one output - 1pps (1 Hz). There is a simple modification to extract 8388.608 kHz, which is of course 223 Hz, and this frequency is used, through binary division, to generate the 1pps output. The 8388.608 kHz output is generated by a 32-bit Direct Digital Synthesizer chip (AD9830). This output can be steered to any other frequency within the operating range, by interacting with the controlling microcontroller, with three provisos: 1. The unit has a peaked filter at the synthesizer output, and so the level at other frequencies varies wildly. This can be corrected with minor modifications. 2. When operating at any other frequency than 8388.608kHz, the 1pps output is of course incorrect. 3. The synthesizer operating frequency can be set to within ±5 mHz (milliHertz) of the requested frequency, - but ONLY if the calculations, on which the command sent to it is based, correctly use 32-bit maths. Which is a confirmation... http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:rubidium_oscillat ors So, this would work for the 50,255+ MHz based FE 5680A. For 60 MHz variants it works a little different, but it has two MCUs sitting there, so some use for theme should there be. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
Hi Joe, On 01/25/2012 08:04 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Magnus, Thanks for the research. Now that I have read your information, I am going to have to go back and 'measure' the PPS output on my unit. I just 'eyeballed' the '1 PPS' and it seemed close to 1 second. Good luck. Hopefully I put you onto a working solution. It would be nice to find a serial command that would allow placing the 1 PPS at any arbitrary point in phase to match GPS. My impression of reading the posts about the FE-5680A is that the 1 PPS is likely there, just not easily documented. Well, being lazy enough not to go into the lab and open up my 5680 I went hunting the web and it seems like there was more out there than we seems to have been piecing together. Seems like a bit of more systematic research needs to be done. There are obviously at least two basic models, one older with 50,255+ MHz oscillators and various add-on boards and secondly the 60 MHz + DDS variant. Reverse-engineering the schematics and functions has only partly been done, but I haven't seen any systematic schematic popping out of the work. There is already plenty of information available, but it is not coordinated and systematically done to the level that most aspects can be written down in a service type of document. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Things to look for when buying a few FE-5680A's?
Chris, Thank you for the input on the subject. I'll keep my eyes open for the two different kinds. In all honesty, I probably don't need to alter the frequency... I just like the ability to interrogate the unit for other values such as reading the ADC's and health status bits. I've seen other threads about undocumented commands and values, and that sort of stuff kind of intrigues me. Do you know of any other reference manuals for these units? I found one PDF that seems to cover the operation and use of the modules pretty well. I was curious if there were any other docs out there. I know that there's an FAQ site for the units, and I've been reading over that site. Good info. I'll keep my eyes open for the two different kinds. Thank you, Brad Stockdale On 1/22/2012 12:49 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: The current batch of (about) $40 units are different from what was available a year ago. These new ones require 5V DC input in addition to 15V and can only be programmed via RS232 a few Hz away from 10MHz. So they are only good for use as a 10MHz reference Option 2 in the book refers to a different type FE5380 that can be programed over a very wide range of several MHz. I think these are still being sold on eBay but not for $40. They seem to be over $100. Which is which and how to tell? Just look at the price. On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Brad Stockdaleb...@shinji.net wrote: All, I've been on the sidelines of being a time nut for a while now and I'm working on getting back into things. Before I drifted away from my hobbies, I remember the FE-5680's being around, but I didn't know much about them and was more interested in GPSDO's. I think I'd like to help kickstart my interest in the area again by picking up a few FE-5680A's from eBay. So, I was wondering if there's any certain things I should look for when buying some... It looks like there's a pretty consistent supply right now on eBay... Are there certain sellers that people would recommend? I noticed that Option 2 is the RS-232C stuff. Do most on eBay have this option? Anything in particular I should watch out for? Thanks, Brad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Windows app for FE5680 info dump
Here is the output from my 2nd 5680a
Running Win 7 64 bit COM8 via two headed USB to RS232 cable from Frys
On 01/24/2012 08:08 PM, paul swed wrote:
Newell that explains that. Let me try tomorrow at the command line level.
Thanks
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Scott Newellnewell+timen...@n5tnl.comwrote:
I've been asked for a windows version of the FE5680 info dump app, so here
it is:
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-**5680a/control/fe5680_info_**win32.exehttp://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info_win32.exe
Please let me know if you have any trouble. It's a command line program
that's expecting a com port number as the only parameter
(fe5680_info_win32.exe 1 for com 1). It'll dump the replies to all the
commands we know of in both hex and ascii.
If you try it out, please send me a copy of your results.
thanks!
newell N5TNL
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--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430
Cmd 0x22 0x0D byte reply: [22] [0D] [00] [2F] [44] [02] [1D] [6D] [43] [FD]
[87] [05] [0A]
Cmd 0x22 ASCII (.): D..mC...
Cmd 0x22 ASCII ( ): D mC
Cmd 0x29 0x09 byte reply: [29] [09] [00] [20] [FF] [00] [00] [00] [FF]
Cmd 0x29 ASCII (.):
Cmd 0x29 ASCII ( ):
Cmd 0x2B 0x0E byte reply: [2B] [0E] [00] [25] [32] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30]
[30] [30] [00] [02]
Cmd 0x2B ASCII (.): 2000.
Cmd 0x2B ASCII ( ): 2000
Cmd 0x2D 0x09 byte reply: [2D] [09] [00] [24] [FF] [FF] [F9] [E2] [1B]
Cmd 0x2D ASCII (.):
Cmd 0x2D ASCII ( ):
Cmd 0x47 0x08 byte reply: [47] [08] [00] [4F] [23] [01] [00] [22]
Cmd 0x47 ASCII (.): #..
Cmd 0x47 ASCII ( ): #
Cmd 0x53 0x07 byte reply: [53] [07] [00] [54] [82] [00] [82]
Cmd 0x53 ASCII (.): ..
Cmd 0x53 ASCII ( ):
Cmd 0x57 0x56 byte reply: [57] [56] [00] [01] [FF] [36] [00] [39] [00] [3D]
[00] [41] [00] [45] [00] [49] [00] [4D] [00] [51] [00] [55] [00] [59] [00] [5E]
[00] [61] [00] [64] [00] [68] [00] [6C] [00] [70] [00] [74] [00] [78] [00] [7B]
[00] [7F] [00] [83] [00] [87] [00] [8A] [00] [8E] [00] [92] [00] [96] [00] [99]
[00] [9D] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00]
[00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [B7]
Cmd 0x57 ASCII (.):
.6.9.=.A.E.I.M.Q.U.Y.^.a.d.h.l.p.t.x.{...
Cmd 0x57 ASCII ( ): 6 9 = A E I M Q U Y ^ a d h l p t x {
Cmd 0x59 0x56 byte reply: [59] [56] [00] [0F] [FF] [74] [01] [59] [01] [1D]
[01] [10] [01] [F8] [00] [D5] [00] [9F] [00] [96] [00] [74] [00] [40] [00] [1A]
[00] [10] [00] [05] [00] [00] [00] [D4] [FF] [B3] [FF] [91] [FF] [60] [FF] [3B]
[FF] [03] [FF] [F4] [FE] [D5] [FE] [B4] [FE] [94] [FE] [7B] [FE] [70] [FE] [3F]
[FE] [27] [FE] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00]
[00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [7C]
Cmd 0x59 ASCII (.):
.t.Y.t.@...`.;...{.p.?.'.
Cmd 0x59 ASCII ( ): t Y t @ ` ; { p ? '
Cmd 0x5A 0x0D byte reply: [5A] [0D] [00] [57] [02] [00] [B0] [08] [24] [08]
[FC] [04] [6E]
Cmd 0x5A ASCII (.): $...
Cmd 0x5A ASCII ( ): $
Cmd 0x61 0x0B byte reply: [61] [0B] [00] [6A] [37] [30] [35] [38] [35] [00]
[3F]
Cmd 0x61 ASCII (.): 70585.
Cmd 0x61 ASCII ( ): 70585
Cmd 0x65 (CS bad!) 0x07 byte reply: [65] [07] [00] [62] [FF] [1C] [1C]
Cmd 0x65 ASCII (.): ..
Cmd 0x65 ASCII ( ):
Cmd 0x67 0x08 byte reply: [67] [08] [00] [6F] [01] [AF] [F3] [5D]
Cmd 0x67 ASCII (.): ...
Cmd 0x67 ASCII ( ):
Cmd 0xF0 0x0E byte reply: [F0] [0E] [00] [FE] [33] [2E] [34] [00] [00] [00]
[00] [00] [00] [29]
Cmd 0xF0 ASCII (.): 3.4..
Cmd 0xF0 ASCII ( ): 3.4
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Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
I'm sure people will figure out all these undocumented features. But there is a danger is using any of them because some day your Rb oscillator will fail and you will need to replace it. You can't count on the replacement unit to have the same set of undocumented features. I do intend to lock mine to a T-Bolt. but I'll phase lock the 10MHz signals not the PPS. I think I can send both 10MHz to the 74HCT9046 a uPwill read the 74HCT9046 and then send rs-232 commands to adjust the fe5680 to reduce the phase or frequency error The uP might also check the temperature of the FE5680 and keep a table of DDS words vs. temperature and use this table for hold over when the GPS is disconnected. I don't know. First steps first need to play with 74HCT9046 and need to write fe5680 library for Arduino. On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Joe, On 01/25/2012 08:04 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Magnus, Thanks for the research. Now that I have read your information, I am going to have to go back and 'measure' the PPS output on my unit. I just 'eyeballed' the '1 PPS' and it seemed close to 1 second. Good luck. Hopefully I put you onto a working solution. It would be nice to find a serial command that would allow placing the 1 PPS at any arbitrary point in phase to match GPS. My impression of reading the posts about the FE-5680A is that the 1 PPS is likely there, just not easily documented. Well, being lazy enough not to go into the lab and open up my 5680 I went hunting the web and it seems like there was more out there than we seems to have been piecing together. Seems like a bit of more systematic research needs to be done. There are obviously at least two basic models, one older with 50,255+ MHz oscillators and various add-on boards and secondly the 60 MHz + DDS variant. Reverse-engineering the schematics and functions has only partly been done, but I haven't seen any systematic schematic popping out of the work. There is already plenty of information available, but it is not coordinated and systematically done to the level that most aspects can be written down in a service type of document. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
But it misses every other data point after you start the acquisition?
No, every second, the data are acquisite because the shape of the ADEV
line
on display change due the algoritm. So, I suppose I acquire all the data
are
incoming, one per second. The trouble is the X axis avance only one time
every two seconds.
What's your sample interval? If you allowed the program to automatically
sense the incoming data rate from the counter, did it have enough time to
settle down before you pressed 'Start Measurement'? (If you would like to
send a short .tim file to me at john (at) miles.io I'll have a look at it.)
How about the frequency difference view ('f' key)? Does that advance at one
point per second as expected? Some confusion may be associated with the
ADEV graph's X-axis itself -- it is not a measure of elapsed time, and the
graph does not normally advance with each incoming data point.
-- john
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[time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
I just got the same one. searching my inbox turned up no contacts with Scott Dennis. apparently it's really easy to do stuff like this on social networking sites. I avoid all of them like the plague so this hasn't happened to me yet. -Eric On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:02 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- --Eric _ Eric Garner ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
I have had no contact with Scott Dennis either, AFAIK. LinkedIn went through his Address Book and/or Inbox and harevested all the email addresses therein, then spammed them all of them. -John == I just got the same one. searching my inbox turned up no contacts with Scott Dennis. apparently it's really easy to do stuff like this on social networking sites. I avoid all of them like the plague so this hasn't happened to me yet. -Eric On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:02 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- --Eric _ Eric Garner ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
There is a link to unsubscribe from these invites. I shudder to think what nefarious scheme underlies that !! 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com Sent: Jan 25, 2012 3:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] establishing your position w/o gps
On 26/01/2012, at 2:49 AM, J. Forster wrote: Finding your location without GPS is not all that difficult. You need a quality theodolite, but even an ordinary one will read to 1 second of arc. Ordinary? You mean something like a Wild T-2 or Kern DKM-2. Even then getting close to 1 arc-second requires a lot of care. A wild T1 reads directly to 6 seconds, but with repetition will get 1 second. Unlike digital instruments you need a little bit of skill and persistence to get the best measurement from an analogue instrument. You observe circumpolar stars at night to obtain a true azimuth. (North and South) and also the latitude by the inclination of the pole. Not quite so straight forward. You have to have accurate siderial time and an almanac. Polaris is only near the pole, not at it. No need for time, you follow the azimuth of the star until it turns around and then again until it turns back. Half the difference gives you the azimuth of the pole very accurately. Fit your observations to a parabola to get a good result. Works best in Winter when the sun is down for more than 12 hours. A good technique as refraction errors cancel. On a time photograph these stars draw circles around the pole, the centre of the circle is the celestial pole and its elevation above the horizon gives the latitude. You can also use an almanac and a calendar to determine your latitude by observing stars with the theodolite. Not so easy. At the celestial equator the stars are moving in Hour Angle at 15 arc-seconds per second. As I said, analogue measurements need some skill and perseverance. If you added more modern technology you could track your theodolite/ telescope with a clock so you would get a longer period to adjust/ observe the observations and set your clock. Neville -John == You observe the sun at noon to find the local time and set your local clock. You then wait for an event like an eclipse of a planets moons to establish the relationship between your local time and the time at a known site. A theodolite has a telescope that can be plunged i.e. used upside down and this technique is used to get a very accurate level from a striding level. No pool of mercury is needed. The setting up of a theodolite uses sitings and reversed sitings to set the vertical level. The main error is the atmospheric refraction which scatters individual observations, so many repeated observations are needed. The local time observations need to be repeated for good accuracy. A sextant is a less accurate instrument that has the main redeeming feature that when reading it you superimpose the image of a star or the sun with the image of the horizon. Although the image seen may be rolling around, the position of the sun on the horizon is rock steady and is adjusted by the thimble for coincidence. The elevation is then read off the vernier. A theodolite needs a solid base to work from and would be useless on a ship. cheers, Neville Michie On 25/01/2012, at 12:52 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 1/24/12 3:19 PM, J. Forster wrote: Is the USNO almana/ephemeris still published in hard copy every year? That had moon timing, etc. You can download pieces from the Astronomical Applications website at USNO. Or you can buy a copy of the Nautical Almanac for about $20 from a variety of sources. You could also download the pdf (but printing it would cost you more than the $20).. Amazon has it, for instance. http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/ publications/naut-almanac will find it, but the GPO version is more expensive than the commercial versions.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] establishing your position w/o gps
Ordinary? You mean something like a Wild T-2 or Kern DKM-2. Even then getting close to 1 arc-second requires a lot of care. A wild T1 reads directly to 6 seconds, but with repetition will get 1 second. Unlike digital instruments you need a little bit of skill and persistence to get the best measurement from an analogue instrument. Assuming youcan do that w/o bias. A T-2 ius a 1 ard second instrument, a T-3 is 0.1 arc-second. I've never seen a T-4 in the flesh. You observe circumpolar stars at night to obtain a true azimuth. (North and South) and also the latitude by the inclination of the pole. That means observations over more than 18 hours. It'll take you most of a year, unless you are above the artic circle. Not quite so straight forward. You have to have accurate siderial time and an almanac. Polaris is only near the pole, not at it. No need for time, you follow the azimuth of the star until it turns around and then again until it turns back. Half the difference gives you the azimuth of the pole very accurately. See above. Fit your observations to a parabola to get a good result. Works best in Winter when the sun is down for more than 12 hours. A good technique as refraction errors cancel. In practice, the seeing is nowhere near 1 arc-second for 2-3 aperture 'scopes. On a time photograph these stars draw circles around the pole, the centre of the circle is the celestial pole and its elevation above the horizon gives the latitude. And to do that you need a sub-arc second telescope mount. You just can't mount a camera on a tripod. You can also use an almanac and a calendar to determine your latitude by observing stars with the theodolite. Not so easy. At the celestial equator the stars are moving in Hour Angle at 15 arc-seconds per second. As I said, analogue measurements need some skill and perseverance. That's an understatement. I've done it, both for North lines and to adjust a 24 telescope. If you added more modern technology you could track your theodolite/ telescope with a clock so you would get a longer period to adjust/ observe the observations and set your clock. Neville The modern technology just makes the angle readout direct. -John == ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Reverse Engineering the FE-5680A and how to take it apart (was: Determination of the placement of the first pps)
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:19:16 +0100 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Reverse-engineering the schematics and functions has only partly been done, but I haven't seen any systematic schematic popping out of the work. Now that i have received my units, i thought could help with the schematics. But having had a look at mine, i dont think it's worth the effort. The PCB has at least 4 layers, more likely 6. I don't think it's 8 as the PCB looks cost optimized. A few distinct subsystems can be identified by their position, but their connections and the connections within are hard to get. It would take countless hours with good measurement equipment to get anything halfway usable. I'd rather say, save the time, buy another spare unit if you think one of those you have is going to fail. For those who wants to open their unit here a few hints: * Unscrew the unit from it's base plate They are either Torx or Hex. But this doesn't matter at this size, the difference is hard to tell and is very small anyways. I used a T6 Torx screw driver, as that was what i had at hand that did fit. Be carefull, the screws are cheap and very soft. It's easy to rip the torx/hex bit apart. Apply ample pressure to your screw driver. * Unscrew all screws that you can see from outside * two in the center of the bottom plate * two underneath the DB-9 connector * two on the side of the DB-9 * two on the sides These are Philips-1 and Philips-2 screws * There is a screw under each lable at the top * After this, you can take the unit apart. The heat spreader in the middle comes out together with the PCB * Do NOT force the PCB out. If you need to, wiggle gently. If you have to use force, you've forgotten a screw. * The two screws that you see on the PCB stay there (they hold the PCB on the head spreader). I do not recommend to unscrew them. * Take lots of pictures while you are at it :-) If possible, i'd be interested in two Revision markings on the PCB. Mine has a sticker at the bottom, that reads RevF. Then there is a PCB number on the top side, at the edge near the reference crystal (that with the PTC soldered to it). My unit reads there 217421-30352 Rev G Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Reverse Engineering the FE-5680A and how to take it apart (was: Determination of the placement of the first pps)
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:21:46 +0100 Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: * Do NOT force the PCB out. If you need to, wiggle gently. If you have to use force, you've forgotten a screw. Additional note: wiggle holding the heat spreader, not the PCB. If possible, i'd be interested in two Revision markings on the PCB. Mine has a sticker at the bottom, that reads RevF. Then there is a PCB number on the top side, at the edge near the reference crystal (that with the PTC soldered to it). My unit reads there 217421-30352 Rev G And a correction: the sticker reads 406 RevF. I think the sticker denotes the what population option was choosen, while the PCB marking denotes the type and revision of the PCB. Additonal note to self: do not take any device apart, when already being half asleep. Also do not try to write emails and trying to make any sense. ^^; Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
It seems you can only block individual requests. Thus each time they get a new sucker and your email address is harvested, you get new spam. You have to unsubscribe else they keep coming. I used the LinkedIn help center to reach their contact form and requested to be permanently banned from their email server. The help center insists you search first for an answer, so just type in garbage and do a search to get past that firewall. I suppose I will have to blacklist them myself eventually. On 1/25/2012 2:24 PM, Richard W. Solomon wrote: There is a link to unsubscribe from these invites. I shudder to think what nefarious scheme underlies that !! 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: J. Forsterj...@quikus.com Sent: Jan 25, 2012 3:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
If enough spam complaints are sent to SpamCop, they might get put on the spam blacklist and their emails will get trapped in the spam filters. You can be sure that this spam will be repeated about every two weeks. -John = It seems you can only block individual requests. Thus each time they get a new sucker and your email address is harvested, you get new spam. You have to unsubscribe else they keep coming. I used the LinkedIn help center to reach their contact form and requested to be permanently banned from their email server. The help center insists you search first for an answer, so just type in garbage and do a search to get past that firewall. I suppose I will have to blacklist them myself eventually. On 1/25/2012 2:24 PM, Richard W. Solomon wrote: There is a link to unsubscribe from these invites. I shudder to think what nefarious scheme underlies that !! 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: J. Forsterj...@quikus.com Sent: Jan 25, 2012 3:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. -John === LinkedIn I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Scott Dennis Owner at TriniTek Consulting San Francisco Bay Area Confirm that you know Scott Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/isd/5660707270/elzreigN/?hs=falsetok=13GmsUZPetCR41 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-uwev1j-gxuw0i15-1n/qabDgp-P7EXjHqVgFtQv0TQ7w6aCcA/goo/time-nuts%40febo%2Ecom/20061/I1969838244_1/?hs=falsetok=352OtSzXGtCR41 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:13 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: I have had no contact with Scott Dennis either, AFAIK. LinkedIn went through his Address Book and/or Inbox and harevested all the email addresses therein, then spammed them all of them. I doubt that. LinkedIn provides a facility to import your contacts. You then select which ones you want to invite. They don't automatically spam your entire contact list or there would have been many such 'invites' here. The contact import is not automatic and cannot be as they need the email password to do it. I suspect Scott simply pushed the wrong button. Orin. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
On 1/25/2012 5:02 PM, J. Forster wrote: This is intolerable data mining by LinkedIn. FaceBook does the same thing. It is spread either by malware or purposeful deception by those companies. I don't think so. AIR, when you sign up for LinkedIn, it offers to harvest your address book for potential links. It's up to the user to accept. Presumably, this is the case of a clueless newbie, who subscribes to this list, stripping naked before them. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers
Hi Rob -- Thanks for the pointer. I should have been more detailed -- I was hoping to find the same model number as I'm building several copies of a signal chain and wanted to use the same amp block in each; I already have a couple of these units and know they'll do the job, so was hoping to just snag a couple more. And, what was attractive about this unit for my application is that the P1dB is about +25dBm which is ideal for the driver application I have. Don't need a lot of gain, or frequency above VHF. But thanks for the lead, it's appreciated. John Rob Kimberley said the following on 01/25/2012 11:57 AM: John, How about these on EBay, Item : 110803140186 Cheap and plenty in stock. I've just ordered 4 to experiment with. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: 24 January 2012 18:08 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers Several years ago eBay offered some nice amplifier blocks that went up to 500 MHz with about 10dB gain and 25dBm maximum output. The part number on the unit is Harris 0130-211013, but they were sold as Qbit 512. I got a couple back then, and would now like to find two or three more to use in a project. Of course, the eBay source is long gone. There's not much in the way of Google hits other than the page I put up with some test results. Anyone have any of these squirreled away, or know where any might be found? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In case it was something serious with the list or with linkedin itself I looked into it. No worries. Scott sincerely apologizes for the mistake: Hello Tom, Yes, I accidentally unleashed a bot which mined my gmail addresses. I was horrified when I saw it had sent out 2,000 messages. I was trying to pick about a half dozen people. Now back to the 1PPS thread... /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Well, it's still probably better than nothing, even with the missing bits. It's kind of an interesting little box and the lack of a completely unencumbered version of this manual really annoyed me. So I've posted a complete PDF version on my website for those interested. It's a little hefty at 18M. The link is: http://www.pumpkinbrook.com/files/TS65-FMQ1_Manual.pdf Ziggy On Jan 24, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. Forster wrote: Ah, thanks. I have complained to Google about that scanning issue. IMO, it's a real problem. In a few years, Google may have the only extant copy of some doc. And it will be near useless w/o the fully scanned pages. This is the third time this has come up in the last few months. Either they should do it correctly, or not at all. YMMV, -John = On 01/24/2012 11:59 PM, J. Forster wrote: Google: FMQ-1 Test Set The -24P Parts Manual w/ exploded parts ID is in many places and has a drawing of the front panel. It has no schematics. The full manual will be -15 to -45 Depot Maintenance Manual, per standard Army nomenclature. The last digit will be 5, without a following P. Google has TM 11-6625-407-14 scanned. The fold-out schematic pages isn't folded out... but you get a pretty good idea how it works from the rest of the text. The schematics is there fractioned over the pages explaining it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
Magnus, I went back to the shop tonight and checked both my FE-5680A's. Both pin 3 and pin 6 are 'high' when power is first applied. When the unit 'locks', both pin 3 and 6 go 'low' but pin 6 then puts out a 5 uSec wide 1 PPS pulse, as judged by my 'calibrated eyeball' which means that I used a stop watch and counted the time for 10 sweeps of my scope, triggered by pin 6 and set for 5 mSec/cm sweep. These are, indeed '1 pulse per second' pulses. Now, I need to move the power supplies, scope and FE-5680A to where my 5370B and TBolt are located. Don't hold your breath on that though, too many irons in the fire. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:19 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps Hi Joe, On 01/25/2012 08:04 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Magnus, Thanks for the research. Now that I have read your information, I am going to have to go back and 'measure' the PPS output on my unit. I just 'eyeballed' the '1 PPS' and it seemed close to 1 second. Good luck. Hopefully I put you onto a working solution. It would be nice to find a serial command that would allow placing the 1 PPS at any arbitrary point in phase to match GPS. My impression of reading the posts about the FE-5680A is that the 1 PPS is likely there, just not easily documented. Well, being lazy enough not to go into the lab and open up my 5680 I went hunting the web and it seems like there was more out there than we seems to have been piecing together. Seems like a bit of more systematic research needs to be done. There are obviously at least two basic models, one older with 50,255+ MHz oscillators and various add-on boards and secondly the 60 MHz + DDS variant. Reverse-engineering the schematics and functions has only partly been done, but I haven't seen any systematic schematic popping out of the work. There is already plenty of information available, but it is not coordinated and systematically done to the level that most aspects can be written down in a service type of document. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
I know it's generally bad form to reply to my own post, but if you downloaded the manual already, you may want to do it again. I found a copy of the complete schematic and updated the manual, inserting the schematic where it should be. Ziggy --- On Jan 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Ziggy wrote: Well, it's still probably better than nothing, even with the missing bits. It's kind of an interesting little box and the lack of a completely unencumbered version of this manual really annoyed me. So I've posted a complete PDF version on my website for those interested. It's a little hefty at 18M. The link is: http://www.pumpkinbrook.com/files/TS65-FMQ1_Manual.pdf Ziggy On Jan 24, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. Forster wrote: Ah, thanks. I have complained to Google about that scanning issue. IMO, it's a real problem. In a few years, Google may have the only extant copy of some doc. And it will be near useless w/o the fully scanned pages. This is the third time this has come up in the last few months. Either they should do it correctly, or not at all. YMMV, -John = On 01/24/2012 11:59 PM, J. Forster wrote: Google: FMQ-1 Test Set The -24P Parts Manual w/ exploded parts ID is in many places and has a drawing of the front panel. It has no schematics. The full manual will be -15 to -45 Depot Maintenance Manual, per standard Army nomenclature. The last digit will be 5, without a following P. Google has TM 11-6625-407-14 scanned. The fold-out schematic pages isn't folded out... but you get a pretty good idea how it works from the rest of the text. The schematics is there fractioned over the pages explaining it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
At 09:13 PM 1/25/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote: Both pin 3 and pin 6 are 'high' when power is first applied. When the unit 'locks', both pin 3 and 6 go 'low' but pin 6 then puts out a 5 uSec wide 1 PPS pulse, as judged by my 'calibrated eyeball' which means that I used a stop watch and counted the time for 10 sweeps of my scope, triggered by pin 6 and set for 5 mSec/cm sweep. These are, indeed '1 pulse per second' pulses. I attempted to test a FE-5680A pps against the tbolt. I had the 10 MHz tbolt out to my (somewhat flaky) 5370A's ref in. Here's what I got for 100 events, which took about 3:20 to complete: mean: 999.999 900 993 ms sdev: 253 ps min : 999.999 900 49 ms max : 999.999 901 68 ms evnt: 100 Now this was a few days ago and I was confused so don't put too much trust in these numbers. FYI, the tbolt pps output measured as (not freq, not period): mean: 1.000 000 099 83 Hz sdev: 289 pHz (?) min : 1.000 000 099 04 Hz max : 1.000 000 100 62 Hz evnt: 100 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
I'll have to get one of those 'round TUIT's' one of these days and check mine. The interval clearly is not something near .8 sec and, likely, truly 1 PPS along with the 10 MHz output. However, by time nut standards, I have more work to do. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Scott Newell Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:57 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps At 09:13 PM 1/25/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote: Both pin 3 and pin 6 are 'high' when power is first applied. When the unit 'locks', both pin 3 and 6 go 'low' but pin 6 then puts out a 5 uSec wide 1 PPS pulse, as judged by my 'calibrated eyeball' which means that I used a stop watch and counted the time for 10 sweeps of my scope, triggered by pin 6 and set for 5 mSec/cm sweep. These are, indeed '1 pulse per second' pulses. I attempted to test a FE-5680A pps against the tbolt. I had the 10 MHz tbolt out to my (somewhat flaky) 5370A's ref in. Here's what I got for 100 events, which took about 3:20 to complete: mean: 999.999 900 993 ms sdev: 253 ps min : 999.999 900 49 ms max : 999.999 901 68 ms evnt: 100 Now this was a few days ago and I was confused so don't put too much trust in these numbers. FYI, the tbolt pps output measured as (not freq, not period): mean: 1.000 000 099 83 Hz sdev: 289 pHz (?) min : 1.000 000 099 04 Hz max : 1.000 000 100 62 Hz evnt: 100 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] telling time without a clock
OK.. without getting into celestial navigation, the whole thing of telling time with the moon is intriguing. And with some forethought and data available today, we could fairly easily do what folks back in the 18th century could not. Let's say you run a suitable celestial model and identify all the reasonably bright and identifiable star that the moon occults in a given day. The moon moves about 1/2-1 degree per hour against the star field, so the question is, could you find, say, a star every couple hours. Then, assuming you know *about* what time it is, say, 930PM, you can go to your table, see that the Moon occults zeta obscuris at 2143. You sit there with your binoculars and watch the moon, and when zeta obscuris disappears, you know it's 2143. Done. You could even do it automatically with a not very accurate goto telescope and a camera (you just have to be able to point to the correct limb of the moon and look for the star). This kind of search would be incredibly tedious if you didn't have automation to help, but today, with reasonably accurate star catalogs AND reasonably accurate numerical ephemerides, it should be possible to make a time almanac with a page for each day, etc. (obviously, this only works about half the day, when the moon is up) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] telling time without a clock
On 1/25/12 8:38 PM, Jim Lux wrote: OK.. without getting into celestial navigation, the whole thing of telling time with the moon is intriguing. And with some forethought and data available today, we could fairly easily do what folks back in the 18th century could not. Let's say you run a suitable celestial model and identify all the reasonably bright and identifiable star that the moon occults in a given day. The moon moves about 1/2-1 degree per hour against the star field, so the question is, could you find, say, a star every couple hours. Then, assuming you know *about* what time it is, say, 930PM, you can go to your table, see that the Moon occults zeta obscuris at 2143. You sit there with your binoculars and watch the moon, and when zeta obscuris disappears, you know it's 2143. Done. You could even do it automatically with a not very accurate goto telescope and a camera (you just have to be able to point to the correct limb of the moon and look for the star). This kind of search would be incredibly tedious if you didn't have automation to help, but today, with reasonably accurate star catalogs AND reasonably accurate numerical ephemerides, it should be possible to make a time almanac with a page for each day, etc. (obviously, this only works about half the day, when the moon is up) And, you should be able to make it work on any planet, as long as it has moons (and you have the ephemeris known well enough.. not guaranteed by any means) Further, it occurs to me that if you know exactly what time it is AND you know the elevation of the moon and the star it's occulting, you know your lat and lon. I think.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Things to look for when buying a few FE-5680A's?
On 1/22/2012 9:49 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: The current batch of (about) $40 units are different from what was available a year ago. These new ones require 5V DC input in addition to 15V and can only be programmed via RS232 a few Hz away from 10MHz. So they are only good for use as a 10MHz reference For historical accuracy, in Jan 2005, I bought an FE-5680A which didn't work with just a 15 V supply. After some hacking, I think I was the first (at least on this list) to figure out that it also needed 5V on one of the pins to operate. I was not able to program that one. Though reminded by these many recent emails, I haven't yet pulled it out of my stash to see if I missed something when I tried to communicate on RS-232 back then. So the *new* ones are not that new, but they are newer than the ones, more commonly known before 2005, that worked on only 15 V and could be programmed over a wide frequency output range. Over the years, one thing is quite obvious -- Frequency Electronics Inc. (FEI) made many similar but different versions of the FE-5680A. There seems to be no definitive way to distinguish versions that have no external physical differences (like an sma output). Also, FEI has not been responsive, to my knowledge, to any questions from us surplus consumers/hackers. It is fortunate that this latest round of FE-5680A's seem to be consistent in characteristics and many clever people have derived a lot of details about their internals and programmatic interface. It is great that the current available surplus product seems consistent, but be aware that there were many indistinguishable iterations of the 5680A on the surplus market over the last decade or so. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers
The Q-bit amplifiers tend to use directional coupler feedback as detailed in several of their patents. Bruce John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Hi Rob -- Thanks for the pointer. I should have been more detailed -- I was hoping to find the same model number as I'm building several copies of a signal chain and wanted to use the same amp block in each; I already have a couple of these units and know they'll do the job, so was hoping to just snag a couple more. And, what was attractive about this unit for my application is that the P1dB is about +25dBm which is ideal for the driver application I have. Don't need a lot of gain, or frequency above VHF. But thanks for the lead, it's appreciated. John Rob Kimberley said the following on 01/25/2012 11:57 AM: John, How about these on EBay, Item : 110803140186 Cheap and plenty in stock. I've just ordered 4 to experiment with. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: 24 January 2012 18:08 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for Harris/Qbit amplifers Several years ago eBay offered some nice amplifier blocks that went up to 500 MHz with about 10dB gain and 25dBm maximum output. The part number on the unit is Harris 0130-211013, but they were sold as Qbit 512. I got a couple back then, and would now like to find two or three more to use in a project. Of course, the eBay source is long gone. There's not much in the way of Google hits other than the page I put up with some test results. Anyone have any of these squirreled away, or know where any might be found? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
