Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board
Latest docs emailed. On this subject, I've noticed renewed discussion regarding the FE 5680a. I've got parts to put another ten kits together if anyone is in need. After these ten, it will be a matter of reordering boards if there is enough interest. cheers, ian > Subject: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Some two years back, Ian Muir (AKA Gonzo?) produced a breakout board > for the FE 5860A, one of which I have. Needless to say, I managed to > loose (tidy away!) the documentation. > > Despite searching the archives and google, I cannot find a link to > this. perhaps somebody can help. > > Thanks Geoff > > -- > # > Geoff Blake, G8GNZJO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK > or > Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc > and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. > Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. > # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE 5680A Breakout board - Thanks all
Hi all, Thanks to Herbert, Ian, Ignacio and Nigel for their help in providing, one way or another, the information I required. Herbert asked for a photo of the board and when I dug that out, there nestling on the HDD were the zipped pdf files. There ought to be a law against this, Murphy, Finagle perhaps. Thanks again folks. Geoff -- # Geoff Blake, G8GNZJO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK or Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions
Thanks you both for your answers. I had another jump (positive this time, 24h after the first one) and the efc curve came back to its previous state, see : http://uppix.net/f/4/d/c5a277798ca58bb04b41481ece6e7.png. The receiver is a 6 channels and it outputs two 10 MHz and one PPS. The antenna has noname and it is installed on a balcony, that's why it has a poor reception. Sure this is not perfect and I have to improve that. The log is running every 5 minutes and I didn't notice a holdover mode of the oscillator. (I've bought this GPSO to check the frequency of my 5334B for gates times of 60s and 100s. I know I can use the 10MHz of the GPSDO as Frequency Reference for the 5534B but I wanted to check its frequency first !) De : Volker Esper À : time-nuts@febo.com Envoyé le : Jeudi 28 février 2013 2h12 Objet : Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions If your unit is exactly like that on ebay 251226027893, it has a 10 MHz HP oscillator in a double oven, and it's absolutely sure that it's got a 6 channel receiver. I should have read before, sorry. I'm still not sure about your antenna, is it a Garmin? Well, it's most likely an active type, so what gain does it have? If you installed it on a roof top, it should see sufficient field strength. Then do that simple test: disconnect your antenna from the receiver unit and measure with a multimeter the voltage at the center pin of your N connecter antenna plug. It has to show 5 Volts, otherwise your antenna can't be working well. Volker Am 28.02.2013 01:26, schrieb Volker Esper: > > Hi Claude! > > Said says, you should see 6+ sats, I guess he means _at_least_ six. I'm > almost sure, you've got a 6 channel receiver, so you naturally cant't get > more than 6 sats at a time. > > There are some different models of the Z3805A out there, though they're all > named the same. I've got two units, one with an 8 channel and one with a 16 > channel receiver. My 8channel unit never receives more than 6 sats at a time, > never. So I'm shure, it's a 6 channel type... > > Maybe I should improve my antenna. But the same antenna provides enough > voltage to receive 12 to 14 sats at once with the 16 channel unit. On the > other hand, my 6/8 channel gizmo very rarely shows less than 6 sats, so, like > Said, I too think, that there is some space for improving your antenna. What > antenna do you have? > > One day, while using the 16 channel unit, I experienced the same hops as you > did. All time nuts told me that it had to be a crystal jump. I read about > such phenomenons and all I found was, that the jump in my receiver was too > big to fit to the idea of a crystal jump. Unfortunately my receiver gained > fun in jumping. Now I'm absolutely not sure what it is. Maybe it's a faulty > oscillator. Which one do you have built in? A 5 or a 10 MHz type? I've got a > 10 MHz HP and a 5 MHz Symmetricom oscillator. > > Cheers > > Volker > > > > Am 28.02.2013 00:17, schrieb Claude Fender: >> Hello, >> >> This is my first message here although I read this list for a few weeks. >> >> I bought a Z3805A/58503A frequency receiver and I didn't notice on the >>pictures that the model number was not written on the front panel. It's not >>important but is there a reason for that, if you know ? >> The item : http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251226027893 >> >> >> I log some parameters of the receiver and today I notice a "gap" in the >> frequency. >> >> Picture : http://uppix.net/e/2/4/cf39ac772e5a69fc616f5cf30f208.png >> >> I have a Rubidium and I measure it's frequency with a 5334B counter locked >> to the GPS, and I can see the "gap" too : >> http://uppix.net/f/b/a/d86c2737ad135264e4a2b78e503d5.png >> measurements are with Gate Time of 10s, 60s and 100s, >> >> >> Do you know why this happens and how to prevent this behaviour ? >> >> Thanks for yours advices >> >> >> Claude >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board
HI Nigel woul it possble to sent the informatio to me as eMal is corc...@yahoo.ca Than You. From: "gandal...@aol.com" To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 3:39:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board Hi Geoff, Ian's email address is _cadbloke@hotmail.com_ (mailto:cadbl...@hotmail.com) . I've zipped up what documentation I have and will email it direct. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 01/03/2013 19:13:47 GMT Standard Time, melecert...@gmail.com writes: Some two years back, Ian Muir (AKA Gonzo?) produced a breakout board for the FE 5860A, one of which I have. Needless to say, I managed to loose (tidy away!) the documentation. Despite searching the archives and google, I cannot find a link to this. perhaps somebody can help. Thanks Geoff -- # Geoff Blake, G8GNZ JO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK or Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board
Hi Nigel, Would it possible to sent me a copy as well My eMail is corc...@yahoo.ca Thank You From: "gandal...@aol.com" To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 3:39:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board Hi Geoff, Ian's email address is _cadbloke@hotmail.com_ (mailto:cadbl...@hotmail.com) . I've zipped up what documentation I have and will email it direct. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 01/03/2013 19:13:47 GMT Standard Time, melecert...@gmail.com writes: Some two years back, Ian Muir (AKA Gonzo?) produced a breakout board for the FE 5860A, one of which I have. Needless to say, I managed to loose (tidy away!) the documentation. Despite searching the archives and google, I cannot find a link to this. perhaps somebody can help. Thanks Geoff -- # Geoff Blake, G8GNZ JO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK or Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board
Hi Nigel, Would it possible to sent me a copy as well My email is corc...@yahoo.ca Thank You From: "gandal...@aol.com" To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 3:39:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE 5860A breakout board Hi Geoff, Ian's email address is _cadbloke@hotmail.com_ (mailto:cadbl...@hotmail.com) . I've zipped up what documentation I have and will email it direct. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 01/03/2013 19:13:47 GMT Standard Time, melecert...@gmail.com writes: Some two years back, Ian Muir (AKA Gonzo?) produced a breakout board for the FE 5860A, one of which I have. Needless to say, I managed to loose (tidy away!) the documentation. Despite searching the archives and google, I cannot find a link to this. perhaps somebody can help. Thanks Geoff -- # Geoff Blake, G8GNZ JO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK or Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions
Claude, I see a jump even smaller than the first one and as I calculated before (in an answere to Said's mail) this latest jump is much less than the first one of 550 microHz. I agree with Said that this could be a crystal jump. If you want to check the GPSDO's absolute frequency you'd need a second GPSDO... If you want to check it's stability - how do you know that it's the GPSDO that jumps? Ok, you see a synchonous jump on the EFC voltage, that's a good evidence. If you want to compare the frequency of your 5334B (nice thing, by the way), the accuracy of your locked GPSDO should be sufficient - the uncertainty of your locked GPSDO might be in the range of several uHz... Since GPSDOs make use of highly stable OCXOs to maintain short time stability (and improve side band noise) it depends on your oscillators, which one has better stability, the 5334B built-in osc, or the GPSDO osc. On the picture on ebay I recognize an HP type (most likely 10811) which is known for it's very good stability performance. I guess it's not easy to find an oscillator that can beat the 10811. I use my GPSDOs as external references for my counters and all that stuff (amateur radio equipment, spectrum analyzer,...) and I'd recommend that. >...The receiver is a 6 channels and it outputs two 10 MHz and one PPS. I think my statement about the osc frequency was a bit unclear. All the Z38xx have 10 MHz outputs (as far as I know). But the OCXOs inside the units are different - there are 10 MHz types (HP 10811) (like yours, as it seems) and 5 MHz types (Symmetricom), which have a doubler to achieve the 10 MHz. To cut a long story short, I think, your GPSDO is working fine. With an antenna seeing some more of the hemisphere it would be working even better, I think... :-) Volker Am 02.03.2013 13:15, schrieb Claude Fender: Thanks you both for your answers. I had another jump (positive this time, 24h after the first one) and the efc curve came back to its previous state, see : http://uppix.net/f/4/d/c5a277798ca58bb04b41481ece6e7.png. The receiver is a 6 channels and it outputs two 10 MHz and one PPS. The antenna has noname and it is installed on a balcony, that's why it has a poor reception. Sure this is not perfect and I have to improve that. The log is running every 5 minutes and I didn't notice a holdover mode of the oscillator. (I've bought this GPSO to check the frequency of my 5334B for gates times of 60s and 100s. I know I can use the 10MHz of the GPSDO as Frequency Reference for the 5534B but I wanted to check its frequency first !) De : Volker Esper À : time-nuts@febo.com Envoyé le : Jeudi 28 février 2013 2h12 Objet : Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions If your unit is exactly like that on ebay 251226027893, it has a 10 MHz HP oscillator in a double oven, and it's absolutely sure that it's got a 6 channel receiver. I should have read before, sorry. I'm still not sure about your antenna, is it a Garmin? Well, it's most likely an active type, so what gain does it have? If you installed it on a roof top, it should see sufficient field strength. Then do that simple test: disconnect your antenna from the receiver unit and measure with a multimeter the voltage at the center pin of your N connecter antenna plug. It has to show 5 Volts, otherwise your antenna can't be working well. Volker Am 28.02.2013 01:26, schrieb Volker Esper: Hi Claude! Said says, you should see 6+ sats, I guess he means _at_least_ six. I'm almost sure, you've got a 6 channel receiver, so you naturally cant't get more than 6 sats at a time. There are some different models of the Z3805A out there, though they're all named the same. I've got two units, one with an 8 channel and one with a 16 channel receiver. My 8channel unit never receives more than 6 sats at a time, never. So I'm shure, it's a 6 channel type... Maybe I should improve my antenna. But the same antenna provides enough voltage to receive 12 to 14 sats at once with the 16 channel unit. On the other hand, my 6/8 channel gizmo very rarely shows less than 6 sats, so, like Said, I too think, that there is some space for improving your antenna. What antenna do you have? One day, while using the 16 channel unit, I experienced the same hops as you did. All time nuts told me that it had to be a crystal jump. I read about such phenomenons and all I found was, that the jump in my receiver was too big to fit to the idea of a crystal jump. Unfortunately my receiver gained fun in jumping. Now I'm absolutely not sure what it is. Maybe it's a faulty oscillator. Which one do you have built in? A 5 or a 10 MHz type? I've got a 10 MHz HP and a 5 MHz Symmetricom oscillator. Cheers Volker Am 28.02.2013 00:17, schrieb Claude Fender: Hello, This is my first message here although I read this list for a few weeks. I bought a Z3805A/58503A frequency receiver and I did
Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions
Hi In any closed loop system, it's a bit hard to be 100% sure what moved and what responded to the move. For instance, the reference voltage to the DAC could be jumping. The only way to be sure is to tear everything apart and monitor each piece long term. That said, yes its about 99.(insert several 9's here) % sure to be a crystal jump. Bob On Mar 2, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Volker Esper wrote: > > Claude, > > I see a jump even smaller than the first one and as I calculated before (in > an answere to Said's mail) this latest jump is much less than the first one > of 550 microHz. I agree with Said that this could be a crystal jump. > > If you want to check the GPSDO's absolute frequency you'd need a second > GPSDO... If you want to check it's stability - how do you know that it's the > GPSDO that jumps? Ok, you see a synchonous jump on the EFC voltage, that's a > good evidence. > > If you want to compare the frequency of your 5334B (nice thing, by the way), > the accuracy of your locked GPSDO should be sufficient - the uncertainty of > your locked GPSDO might be in the range of several uHz... > > Since GPSDOs make use of highly stable OCXOs to maintain short time stability > (and improve side band noise) it depends on your oscillators, which one has > better stability, the 5334B built-in osc, or the GPSDO osc. On the picture on > ebay I recognize an HP type (most likely 10811) which is known for it's very > good stability performance. I guess it's not easy to find an oscillator that > can beat the 10811. > > I use my GPSDOs as external references for my counters and all that stuff > (amateur radio equipment, spectrum analyzer,...) and I'd recommend that. > > >...The receiver is a 6 channels and it outputs two 10 MHz and one PPS. > > I think my statement about the osc frequency was a bit unclear. All the Z38xx > have 10 MHz outputs (as far as I know). But the OCXOs inside the units are > different - there are 10 MHz types (HP 10811) (like yours, as it seems) and 5 > MHz types (Symmetricom), which have a doubler to achieve the 10 MHz. > > To cut a long story short, I think, your GPSDO is working fine. With an > antenna seeing some more of the hemisphere it would be working even better, I > think... :-) > > Volker > > > Am 02.03.2013 13:15, schrieb Claude Fender: >> Thanks you both for your answers. >> >> I had another jump (positive this time, 24h after the first one) and the efc >> curve came back to its previous state, see : >> http://uppix.net/f/4/d/c5a277798ca58bb04b41481ece6e7.png. >> >> The receiver is a 6 channels and it outputs two 10 MHz and one PPS. >> The antenna has noname and it is installed on a balcony, that's why it has a >> poor reception. Sure this is not perfect and I have to improve that. >> The log is running every 5 minutes and I didn't notice a holdover mode of >> the oscillator. >> >> (I've bought this GPSO to check the frequency of my 5334B for gates times of >> 60s and 100s. I know I can use the 10MHz of the GPSDO as Frequency Reference >> for the 5534B but I wanted to check its frequency first !) >> >> >> >> De : Volker Esper >> À : time-nuts@febo.com >> Envoyé le : Jeudi 28 février 2013 2h12 >> Objet : Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A/58503A time receiver : 2 questions >> >> >> If your unit is exactly like that on ebay 251226027893, it has a 10 MHz HP >> oscillator in a double oven, and it's absolutely sure that it's got a 6 >> channel receiver. >> >> I should have read before, sorry. >> >> I'm still not sure about your antenna, is it a Garmin? Well, it's most >> likely an active type, so what gain does it have? If you installed it on a >> roof top, it should see sufficient field strength. >> Then do that simple test: disconnect your antenna from the receiver unit and >> measure with a multimeter the voltage at the center pin of your N connecter >> antenna plug. It has to show 5 Volts, otherwise your antenna can't be >> working well. >> >> Volker >> >> >> Am 28.02.2013 01:26, schrieb Volker Esper: >> >>> Hi Claude! >>> >>> Said says, you should see 6+ sats, I guess he means _at_least_ six. I'm >>> almost sure, you've got a 6 channel receiver, so you naturally cant't get >>> more than 6 sats at a time. >>> >>> There are some different models of the Z3805A out there, though they're all >>> named the same. I've got two units, one with an 8 channel and one with a 16 >>> channel receiver. My 8channel unit never receives more than 6 sats at a >>> time, never. So I'm shure, it's a 6 channel type... >>> >>> Maybe I should improve my antenna. But the same antenna provides enough >>> voltage to receive 12 to 14 sats at once with the 16 channel unit. On the >>> other hand, my 6/8 channel gizmo very rarely shows less than 6 sats, so, >>> like Said, I too think, that there is some space for improving your >>> antenna. What antenna do you have? >>> >>> One day, while using the 16 channel unit, I
Re: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming
Hi Iban well my knowledge of the older generation is not much use to you :-)) still I always think any response will bring more comments "out of the woodwork" even if only to correct the false impressions. The suggestion of of a faulty chip on that remote digit sounds like a worthwhile way to go. Good Luck with it these are useful units if a bit big by modern standards. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Iban Cardona" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming Hi Alan, thanks for answer. Yes I have the manual, but the latches on my pts not are as are showed in the user manual. Maybe my unit it is a different version or release, or have some customozation from the pts guys. In myunit, I tested the SO-2005 module that is that generates the 100Mhz decade, and I tested manually the 4bit to generate the 800Mhz and works well. My unit dont have front panel, only can be controllated remotelly. The differences from the user manual, is that un the user manual the 1ghz and 100mhz decade shares latch, and in my unit the shares latch the 100mhz with the 10mhz. The 1ghz latch is shared by the 1hz decade. Best regards 73! Iban eb3frn On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Alan Melia wrote: Hi Iban do you have a manual? they are available. From memory because its a while since I worked on my Wavetek- Rockland unit I believe the remote programming is in parallel with the front panel switches. The reason for raising this is that there may be a problem on the back of the panel switches.mabe a wire off. Does the 800Mhz front panel switch setting work correctly ?? Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Iban Cardona" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming Hi, I'm traying to use to program the bcd interface of a PTS 3200. My truble us tha the 100Mhz decade 8 value bit is ignored by the PTS, then if I send 800Mhz to the PTS dont get output, and if send 900Mhz then I get 100Mhz. I checked the unit and the hardware looks OK. And my code is working well in another PTS units like the 620. The 3200 have some trick? Thanks for all 73! Iban eb3frn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
I am interested in the timing behavior of my RSA fob, which changes every 60 seconds. Since I'm not about to open it up and probe inside, I was wondering if someone had a clever way, say using a USB web cam, to log the changes over a 48 hour period. You'd point the web cam at the fob, and it would log the time when the display changes Or one might even be able to look at the blinking 1 pps indicator using a light and photocell or something.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
My fob only outputs a code on demand, that is after I push the button. Any of the motion detection programs that use webcams would detect the change in display, but with a multiplexed display, I'm not sure how well. -Original Message- From: Jim Lux Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 11:33:02 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes I am interested in the timing behavior of my RSA fob, which changes every 60 seconds. Since I'm not about to open it up and probe inside, I was wondering if someone had a clever way, say using a USB web cam, to log the changes over a 48 hour period. You'd point the web cam at the fob, and it would log the time when the display changes Or one might even be able to look at the blinking 1 pps indicator using a light and photocell or something.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Typical HP 5370B resolution ?
Mark, The jitter is always around 35ps, typ. I think, you won't change anything on the latter parameter by re alignment, because it's given mainly by the jitter of the Time Interpolators and the zero crossing detectors. The alignment procedure mainly calibrates the absolute T.I. accuracy to < 1ns, perhaps to < 100ps in conjunction with this special switch box (don't remember its designation). Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 3/2/13 12:30 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: My fob only outputs a code on demand, that is after I push the button. Any of the motion detection programs that use webcams would detect the change in display, but with a multiplexed display, I'm not sure how well. Interesting point.. mine only has the 6 digit (7-segment) display, but I'm sure it's multiplexed (digit/segment).. But, the mux rate is fairly high, compared to the "transition time" for the segments. So maybe I can average over some (short) time... What I want to do is see what the temperature dependence is. (prompted by leaving the fob in the sun, and having the code rejected, presumably because it was "slightly ahead") ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
I had one for work a while back and asked the IT security guys about it and was told that the change was on a fixed schedule but of course each fob was a little different due to temperature, over time, etc and that the system automatically "learned" the fobs and opened or tightened its tolerance for when the fobs updated. So if you had a slow one the system would adapt over time and just learn to expect that but if the timing got too far off they would replace the fob. I suppose if you kept messing with the timing by leaving in the sun or freezer eventually you would get rejected logins and your IT people would want to replace it, unless they manually really loosened up the timing windows. The people I asked didn't mind my inquiries and seemed eager to chat but some places might be a bit more paranoid. On 3/2/2013 3:57 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 3/2/13 12:30 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: My fob only outputs a code on demand, that is after I push the button. Any of the motion detection programs that use webcams would detect the change in display, but with a multiplexed display, I'm not sure how well. Interesting point.. mine only has the 6 digit (7-segment) display, but I'm sure it's multiplexed (digit/segment).. But, the mux rate is fairly high, compared to the "transition time" for the segments. So maybe I can average over some (short) time... What I want to do is see what the temperature dependence is. (prompted by leaving the fob in the sun, and having the code rejected, presumably because it was "slightly ahead") ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 3/2/13 1:10 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: I had one for work a while back and asked the IT security guys about it and was told that the change was on a fixed schedule but of course each fob was a little different due to temperature, over time, etc and that the system automatically "learned" the fobs and opened or tightened its tolerance for when the fobs updated. So if you had a slow one the system would adapt over time and just learn to expect that but if the timing got too far off they would replace the fob. I suppose if you kept messing with the timing by leaving in the sun or freezer eventually you would get rejected logins and your IT people would want to replace it, unless they manually really loosened up the timing windows. The people I asked didn't mind my inquiries and seemed eager to chat but some places might be a bit more paranoid. The explanation in RSA's manuals is more like.. You set a tolerance window.. how many codes before/after are you willing to accept. When it accepts your code, it resynchronizes it's master timer (for your fob) to whatever you just entered.It doesn't go so far as to try and adjust the "rate", just the "offset". ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
If you think about it, there would have to be some time correction if only because these fobs can't be all that accurate in maintaining time. That is, they would be no better than a watch. I'm not so keen on wearing out the internal battery since these things are now $30 instead of $5 when paypal introduced them. -Original Message- From: Jim Lux Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:18:36 To: Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes On 3/2/13 1:10 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: > I had one for work a while back and asked the IT security guys about it > and was told that the change was on a fixed schedule but of course each > fob was a little different due to temperature, over time, etc and that > the system automatically "learned" the fobs and opened or tightened its > tolerance for when the fobs updated. So if you had a slow one the > system would adapt over time and just learn to expect that but if the > timing got too far off they would replace the fob. I suppose if you > kept messing with the timing by leaving in the sun or freezer eventually > you would get rejected logins and your IT people would want to replace > it, unless they manually really loosened up the timing windows. The > people I asked didn't mind my inquiries and seemed eager to chat but > some places might be a bit more paranoid. > The explanation in RSA's manuals is more like.. You set a tolerance window.. how many codes before/after are you willing to accept. When it accepts your code, it resynchronizes it's master timer (for your fob) to whatever you just entered.It doesn't go so far as to try and adjust the "rate", just the "offset". ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] CD4069UB atomic source
Fellow time-nuts, Bumped into this, which is great humor in several senses: http://www.techlib.com/electronics/atomic2.html The CD4069UB is an unbuffered hex-inverter. About as simple and low-tech you can get it (6 N-channel and 6 P-channel MOSFETs in total, and yes, protection diodes on the inputs). What it actually do is to pick up the 60 Hz or 50 Hz of the power grid, which on longterm is traceable back to atomic standard/UTC so... yes... kinda... but we do know how much they vary. Do notice how the inverters is being tricked into becoming frequency dividers. This is old-school! :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
Hi Jim, I had a similar challenge a while ago. I ended up capturing a 4-digit, 7-segment display with a USB/LAN webcam, converting the JPG to BMP, analyzing pixel gradients, matching the image with heuristic masks, and appending an ascii log file with the 4 decimal digit result once a minute. It worked amazingly well. I can send you the C source code (contact me off-line). See also these legacy links: http://leapsecond.com/webcam/ http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf More recently I used the same webcam to capture AC mains wall clock time vs. a cesium clock: http://leapsecond.com/pages/tec/mains-clock-ani.gif Now, it may seem very old-fashion and crude to use a web cam to capture data. But the reality is that not all devices expose their internal state via convenient analog test points, or through digital I2C, RS232, GPIB, USB, or LAN protocols. So the last resort is simply a web cam on a visual (LED or LCD) display. But, if I understand correctly, in your case, you are more interested using the external LCD display as a *proxy* for the internal crystal oscillator. Thus you are not concerned with the actual numeric value that the LCD segments are displaying; you are simply interested in measuring the time at which the LCD digits and segments change -- because that corresponds to the phase/frequency of the internal oscillator. Measuring clock drift and tempco would be very easy and would produce interesting results. The higher the rate of web cam capture the finer the resolution of your TIC detection. Note that multiplexed displays are not a problem; in fact, if you're clever it can actually improve your resolution by observing the segment transition times. That is, instead of *polling* the display, you use *changes* in the display as your timing trigger. Edge detection. You move from a world of periodic/gated frequency counters to a world of a reciprocal period counters, or even time-stamping counters. In other words, since you are interested in the underlying clock performance rather than the RSA algorithm itself, just focus a few photo-transistor(s) on the LCD segment(s). The transition from light/dark/light/dark will exactly correspond to some internal crystal clock phase/frequency, from which you can gather precise long-term phase, frequency, and stability information. Edges are always better than polling. The idea is that segment *transition* instants rather than periodic observation of segment *state* provides much greater accuracy. What you want to do is measure the time of transition of individual segments. I would use time-stamping rather than polling or time interval or frequency measurement. That is, use a CNT-91, or picPET (www.leapsecond.com/pic). If you look at a 7-segment digit encoding table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display) you can see that focusing on segment 'e' gives you 8 transitions out of every 10, and using two opto-detectors on segments 'a' and 'e' will allow you to generate a timing event for every change in LCD digit. This will be several orders of magnitude more precise than using a web cam. You don't need photo-transistors on all segments. /tvb - Original Message - From: "Jim Lux" To: Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes > On 3/2/13 12:30 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: >> My fob only outputs a code on demand, that is after I push the button. >> >> Any of the motion detection programs that use webcams would detect the >> change in display, but with a multiplexed display, I'm not sure how well. > > Interesting point.. mine only has the 6 digit (7-segment) display, but > I'm sure it's multiplexed (digit/segment).. > > But, the mux rate is fairly high, compared to the "transition time" for > the segments. So maybe I can average over some (short) time... > > What I want to do is see what the temperature dependence is. (prompted > by leaving the fob in the sun, and having the code rejected, presumably > because it was "slightly ahead") ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 3/2/13 1:29 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: If you think about it, there would have to be some time correction if only because these fobs can't be all that accurate in maintaining time. That is, they would be no better than a watch. I'm not so keen on wearing out the internal battery since these things are now $30 instead of $5 when paypal introduced them. mine is on all the time.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SecureID_token_new.JPG I presume the battery will die in some number of years <10 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 3/2/13 2:52 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Jim, I had a similar challenge a while ago. I ended up capturing a 4-digit, 7-segment display with a USB/LAN webcam, converting the JPG to BMP, analyzing pixel gradients, matching the image with heuristic masks, and appending an ascii log file with the 4 decimal digit result once a minute. It worked amazingly well. I can send you the C source code (contact me off-line). See also these legacy links: http://leapsecond.com/webcam/ http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf More recently I used the same webcam to capture AC mains wall clock time vs. a cesium clock: http://leapsecond.com/pages/tec/mains-clock-ani.gif Now, it may seem very old-fashion and crude to use a web cam to capture data. I've used that scheme more than once.. as well as similar approaches of spinning wheels or counters driving LEDs to measure camera shutter timing. But, if I understand correctly, in your case, you are more interested using the external LCD display as a *proxy* for the internal crystal oscillator. exactly Thus you are not concerned with the actual numeric value that the LCD segments are displaying; you are simply interested in measuring the time at which the LCD digits and segments change -- because that corresponds to the phase/frequency of the internal oscillator. yes Measuring clock drift and tempco would be very easy and would produce interesting results. The higher the rate of web cam capture the finer the resolution of your TIC detection. Note that multiplexed displays are not a problem; in fact, if you're clever it can actually improve your resolution by observing the segment transition times. That is, instead of *polling* the display, you use *changes* in the display as your timing trigger. Edge detection. You move from a world of periodic/gated frequency counters to a world of a reciprocal period counters, or even time-stamping counters. In other words, since you are interested in the underlying clock performance rather than the RSA algorithm itself, just focus a few photo-transistor(s) on the LCD segment(s). That's what I was thinking.. the segments are pretty small, though, so some optics and fixturing would need to be fabricated. The idea of "point webcam at RSA fob and run software" was pretty appealing. The transition from light/dark/light/dark will exactly correspond to some internal crystal clock phase/frequency, from which you can gather precise long-term phase, frequency, and stability information. Edges are always better than polling. Yes indeed.. I can't think of a good reason why they would decouple the segment mux from the underlying clock (unless there's some built in RC oscillator in the chip doing the mux, separate from the timekeeping). Actually, there's probably some information around on the internal design of the fob.. After all, the security is in the algorithm, not the hardware. The idea is that segment *transition* instants rather than periodic observation of segment *state* provides much greater accuracy. What you want to do is measure the time of transition of individual segments. I would use time-stamping rather than polling or time interval or frequency measurement. That is, use a CNT-91, or picPET (www.leapsecond.com/pic). If you look at a 7-segment digit encoding table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display) you can see that focusing on segment 'e' gives you 8 transitions out of every 10, and using two opto-detectors on segments 'a' and 'e' will allow you to generate a timing event for every change in LCD digit. This will be several orders of magnitude more precise than using a web cam. You don't need photo-transistors on all segments. Even better, there's a little segment that blinks on and off every second, as well as a stack of 6 that go away, one every 10 seconds, and then, finally, the 6 digits. If I rig up an optical system, the 1 pps segment is the logical one to look at. Time to look for some suitable optics. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
Perhaps you can detect EMI from the device especially if you put it it a shielded metal box with pickup antenna. You might be able to get the clock right from that. On 3/2/2013 6:50 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 3/2/13 2:52 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Jim, I had a similar challenge a while ago. I ended up capturing a 4-digit, 7-segment display with a USB/LAN webcam, converting the JPG to BMP, analyzing pixel gradients, matching the image with heuristic masks, and appending an ascii log file with the 4 decimal digit result once a minute. It worked amazingly well. I can send you the C source code (contact me off-line). See also these legacy links: http://leapsecond.com/webcam/ http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf More recently I used the same webcam to capture AC mains wall clock time vs. a cesium clock: http://leapsecond.com/pages/tec/mains-clock-ani.gif Now, it may seem very old-fashion and crude to use a web cam to capture data. I've used that scheme more than once.. as well as similar approaches of spinning wheels or counters driving LEDs to measure camera shutter timing. But, if I understand correctly, in your case, you are more interested using the external LCD display as a *proxy* for the internal crystal oscillator. exactly Thus you are not concerned with the actual numeric value that the LCD segments are displaying; you are simply interested in measuring the time at which the LCD digits and segments change -- because that corresponds to the phase/frequency of the internal oscillator. yes Measuring clock drift and tempco would be very easy and would produce interesting results. The higher the rate of web cam capture the finer the resolution of your TIC detection. Note that multiplexed displays are not a problem; in fact, if you're clever it can actually improve your resolution by observing the segment transition times. That is, instead of *polling* the display, you use *changes* in the display as your timing trigger. Edge detection. You move from a world of periodic/gated frequency counters to a world of a reciprocal period counters, or even time-stamping counters. In other words, since you are interested in the underlying clock performance rather than the RSA algorithm itself, just focus a few photo-transistor(s) on the LCD segment(s). That's what I was thinking.. the segments are pretty small, though, so some optics and fixturing would need to be fabricated. The idea of "point webcam at RSA fob and run software" was pretty appealing. The transition from light/dark/light/dark will exactly correspond to some internal crystal clock phase/frequency, from which you can gather precise long-term phase, frequency, and stability information. Edges are always better than polling. Yes indeed.. I can't think of a good reason why they would decouple the segment mux from the underlying clock (unless there's some built in RC oscillator in the chip doing the mux, separate from the timekeeping). Actually, there's probably some information around on the internal design of the fob.. After all, the security is in the algorithm, not the hardware. The idea is that segment *transition* instants rather than periodic observation of segment *state* provides much greater accuracy. What you want to do is measure the time of transition of individual segments. I would use time-stamping rather than polling or time interval or frequency measurement. That is, use a CNT-91, or picPET (www.leapsecond.com/pic). If you look at a 7-segment digit encoding table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display) you can see that focusing on segment 'e' gives you 8 transitions out of every 10, and using two opto-detectors on segments 'a' and 'e' will allow you to generate a timing event for every change in LCD digit. This will be several orders of magnitude more precise than using a web cam. You don't need photo-transistors on all segments. Even better, there's a little segment that blinks on and off every second, as well as a stack of 6 that go away, one every 10 seconds, and then, finally, the 6 digits. If I rig up an optical system, the 1 pps segment is the logical one to look at. Time to look for some suitable optics. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
Most two factor authentication systems have re-sync capability, rsa had thieir token master key compromised for all des based tokens I believe Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2013, at 16:41, Jim Lux wrote: > On 3/2/13 1:29 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: >> If you think about it, there would have to be some time correction if only >> because these fobs can't be all that accurate in maintaining time. That is, >> they would be no better than a watch. >> >> I'm not so keen on wearing out the internal battery since these things are >> now $30 instead of $5 when paypal introduced them. > > > mine is on all the time.. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SecureID_token_new.JPG > > I presume the battery will die in some number of years <10 > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 03/03/2013 01:00 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Perhaps you can detect EMI from the device especially if you put it it a shielded metal box with pickup antenna. You might be able to get the clock right from that. Well, considering that actively "driving" a LCD segment involves passing an AC field over it, in electrostatic drive, you could detect the existence of AC or not on a segment, but you would have to "mask out" that of other segments. On the other hand, you can expect a multiplexed drive. An E-field detector as such would be able to pick up the shifts. Wonders if the multiplexing is done by the same clock or a free-running clock. If it is the same clock, just picking up the E-field from the multiplex suffice to detect the clock ticking. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 3/2/13 4:12 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 03/03/2013 01:00 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Perhaps you can detect EMI from the device especially if you put it it a shielded metal box with pickup antenna. You might be able to get the clock right from that. Well, considering that actively "driving" a LCD segment involves passing an AC field over it, in electrostatic drive, you could detect the existence of AC or not on a segment, but you would have to "mask out" that of other segments. On the other hand, you can expect a multiplexed drive. An E-field detector as such would be able to pick up the shifts. Wonders if the multiplexing is done by the same clock or a free-running clock. If it is the same clock, just picking up the E-field from the multiplex suffice to detect the clock ticking. OH, ho.. this is clever.. Time to get the scope probe out.. Find the big peak, work out a quick and dirty analog filter, run it to the counter... I would suspect that the multiplexing comes off the same oscillator, the whole thing probably runs off a 32 kHz clock crystal. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
On 03/03/2013 01:39 AM, Jim Lux wrote: On 3/2/13 4:12 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 03/03/2013 01:00 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Perhaps you can detect EMI from the device especially if you put it it a shielded metal box with pickup antenna. You might be able to get the clock right from that. Well, considering that actively "driving" a LCD segment involves passing an AC field over it, in electrostatic drive, you could detect the existence of AC or not on a segment, but you would have to "mask out" that of other segments. On the other hand, you can expect a multiplexed drive. An E-field detector as such would be able to pick up the shifts. Wonders if the multiplexing is done by the same clock or a free-running clock. If it is the same clock, just picking up the E-field from the multiplex suffice to detect the clock ticking. OH, ho.. this is clever.. Time to get the scope probe out.. Find the big peak, work out a quick and dirty analog filter, run it to the counter... Thanks. It's physics applied, knowing the basics and work from there. I would suspect that the multiplexing comes off the same oscillator, the whole thing probably runs off a 32 kHz clock crystal. Most probably. You would probably enjoy having a JFET amplifier in there. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming
Hi Alan, finally I solved the issue removing the 1121 board from the pts3200 and putting a 1121 board from a pts160 and now works perfect. Looks that the unit have some customizations from the manufacturer. Thanks for all guys. 73! Iban eb3frn On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Alan Melia wrote: > Hi Iban well my knowledge of the older generation is not much use to you > :-)) still I always think any response will bring more comments "out of the > woodwork" even if only to correct the false impressions. The suggestion of > of a faulty chip on that remote digit sounds like a worthwhile way to go. > > Good Luck with it these are useful units if a bit big by modern standards. > Best Wishes > > Alan > G3NYK > > - Original Message - From: "Iban Cardona" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:37 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming > > > >> Hi Alan, >> >> thanks for answer. Yes I have the manual, but the latches on my pts >> not are as are showed in the user manual. Maybe my unit it is a >> different version or release, or have some customozation from the pts >> guys. >> >> In myunit, I tested the SO-2005 module that is that generates the >> 100Mhz decade, and I tested manually the 4bit to generate the 800Mhz >> and works well. >> >> My unit dont have front panel, only can be controllated remotelly. >> >> The differences from the user manual, is that un the user manual the >> 1ghz and 100mhz decade shares latch, and in my unit the shares latch >> the 100mhz with the 10mhz. The 1ghz latch is shared by the 1hz decade. >> >> Best regards >> >> 73! Iban >> eb3frn >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Alan Melia >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Iban do you have a manual? they are available. From memory because its >>> a >>> while since I worked on my Wavetek- Rockland unit I believe the remote >>> programming is in parallel with the front panel switches. The reason for >>> raising this is that there may be a problem on the back of the panel >>> switches.mabe a wire off. Does the 800Mhz front panel switch setting >>> work correctly ?? >>> >>> Alan >>> G3NYK >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Iban Cardona" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:42 PM >>> Subject: [time-nuts] PTS 3200 remote programming >>> >>> Hi, I'm traying to use to program the bcd interface of a PTS 3200. My truble us tha the 100Mhz decade 8 value bit is ignored by the PTS, then if I send 800Mhz to the PTS dont get output, and if send 900Mhz then I get 100Mhz. I checked the unit and the hardware looks OK. And my code is working well in another PTS units like the 620. The 3200 have some trick? Thanks for all 73! Iban eb3frn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is >>10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with "dd". ws From: "Garren Davis" Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Hi If there was a file / image attached , it didn't make it through. North doesn't matter much, South is a very big deal. That of course assumes you are in the US or Europe. Bob On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: > I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet > up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent > performance from it? Here is the LH display: > > Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East > and South are pretty much clear right now. > > Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? > > Any hints greatly appreciated! > > > > On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: >>> Can anyone comment on the picture. >>> I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and >>> stability is concerned. >> >> The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. >> What can be said from what is there: >>> From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. >> >>> From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. >> It is using the default setting (for the most part) >> Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, >> (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) >> Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what >> is possible. >> Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is >>10 times more that what >> is possible with good setup. >> >> Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. >> Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in >> general >> The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control >> voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. >> The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, >> not the other way around. >> You can disable the Dac from changing with "dd". >> >> ws >> >> >> From: "Garren Davis" >> Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers >> >> Hi, >> >> I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I >> hope it's ok >> that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the >> picture. It's been >> running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered >> good as far as >> accuracy and stability is concerned. >> Thanks. >> Garren >> >> ** >> Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com >> >>> From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies >>> about +-.5C. This is >> from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The >> inner oven where the >> oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the >> tbolt algorithm controls >> the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. >> Temperature goes up, the DAC >> voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the >> DAC voltage changing >> if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell >> the tbolt algorithm to >> ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? >> >> Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. >> >> Garren >> >> >> >> >> 8 >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> - >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 >> >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Typical, the image didn't go through. Here is a link to it: http://petergottlieb.com/images/tbolt.gif On 3/2/2013 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is >>10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with "dd". ws From: "Garren Davis" Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Nortel EBSCTM-C / NTPB15AB-05
Hi Has anybody traced out the connections on the DB-37 connector on the back of this beast yet? It's not quite the same as the 110 pin connector on the back of the NTBW50AA. I suspect it's got the same sort of stuff on it. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Hi As much as can be told from a 17 minute plot - looks ok. The antenna could indeed be a bit higher and that would hopefully take care of the crummy sat c/n numbers. What kind of feed line / antenna are you using? Cable TV RG-6 quad shield from your local big box store is a real good choice for the coax. RG-58/59 are not as good at this frequency. Bob On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: > Typical, the image didn't go through. Here is a link to it: > http://petergottlieb.com/images/tbolt.gif > > > On 3/2/2013 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: >> I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet >> up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent >> performance from it? Here is the LH display: >> >> Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East >> and South are pretty much clear right now. >> >> Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? >> >> Any hints greatly appreciated! >> >> >> >> On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. >>> >>> The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. >>> What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. >>> From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. >>> It is using the default setting (for the most part) >>> Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, >>> (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) >>> Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than >>> what is possible. >>> Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is >>10 times more that >>> what is possible with good setup. >>> >>> Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. >>> Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in >>> general >>> The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control >>> voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. >>> The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, >>> not the other way around. >>> You can disable the Dac from changing with "dd". >>> >>> ws >>> >>> >>> From: "Garren Davis" >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. >>> I hope it's ok >>> that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the >>> picture. It's been >>> running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered >>> good as far as >>> accuracy and stability is concerned. >>> Thanks. >>> Garren >>> >>> ** >>> Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com >>> From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is >>> from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The >>> inner oven where the >>> oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the >>> tbolt algorithm controls >>> the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. >>> Temperature goes up, the DAC >>> voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the >>> DAC voltage changing >>> if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell >>> the tbolt algorithm to >>> ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? >>> >>> Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. >>> >>> Garren >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 8 >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> - >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> - >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 >> >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
The antenna has a pretty clear sky view right now. I have about 75 feet of cable, 25 feet that came attached permanently to the antenna, might be RG-59, and a 50 foot extension which is a new piece of good quality RG-6 CATV cable. Perhaps the antenna (came with the tbolt in the ebay deal) is not that good and I should get something better before taking the effort to get it up in its permanent location? On 3/2/2013 10:06 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi As much as can be told from a 17 minute plot - looks ok. The antenna could indeed be a bit higher and that would hopefully take care of the crummy sat c/n numbers. What kind of feed line / antenna are you using? Cable TV RG-6 quad shield from your local big box store is a real good choice for the coax. RG-58/59 are not as good at this frequency. Bob On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Typical, the image didn't go through. Here is a link to it: http://petergottlieb.com/images/tbolt.gif On 3/2/2013 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is >>10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with "dd". ws From: "Garren Davis" Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.c
[time-nuts] Nortel EBSCTM-C / NTPB15AB-05
>Has anybody traced out the connections on the DB-37 connector on >the back of this beast yet? I never looked at the 37-pin connector on the back of the unit but back in December, 2012 I did post that I had added a display and an A.C. supply to the one I had and it seems to be working fine. I use LH to control and keep track of how it's doing but as others have mentioned, not all the set-up data you tell it to save gets saved. The link to the photo I'd previously posted is below. -Arthur http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/NTPB15AA05.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Peter wrote: The antenna has a pretty clear sky view right now. I have about 75 feet of cable, 25 feet that came attached permanently to the antenna, might be RG-59, and a 50 foot extension which is a new piece of good quality RG-6 CATV cable. Perhaps the antenna (came with the tbolt in the ebay deal) is not that good and I should get something better before taking the effort to get it up in its permanent location? If you are not using a timing-grade antenna, changing it would be a good idea -- but be prepared for your c/n numbers not to change dramatically. If you get a new one, make sure it is a 5 V antenna. You say that the E and S exposures are pretty much clear, but the plot shows poor c/n below 30-45 degrees elevation. You may find that your ADEV improves if you change the elevation filter to 30 degrees (it is at 10 degrees now), or change the signal strength filter to something >= 3.0 AMU (it is at 0.0 now; 3.5-4.0 is often recommended). Either of these would reduce the number of satellites used by the Tbolt at any given time, but getting rid of the noisiest signals may improve overall performance as long as it does not cause the Tbolt to go into holdover for lack of satellites. One of my Tbolts is in a location surrounded by tall trees and I have an indoor backup antenna in case the external antenna fails. Using the backup antenna, its c/n plot looks not too different from yours. After much experimentation, I found that the best performance with the backup antenna is achieved with the elevation filter set to 30 degrees and the signal strength filter set to 3.0 AMU. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: > The antenna has a pretty clear sky view right now. I have about 75 feet of > cable, 25 feet that came attached permanently to the antenna, might be > RG-59, and a 50 foot extension which is a new piece of good quality RG-6 > CATV cable. > > Perhaps the antenna (came with the tbolt in the ebay deal) is not that good > and I should get something better before taking the effort to get it up in > its permanent location? YES. Especially you need to solve the cable problem. A better antenna will have a connector so you can have one continuos run of cable all the same type. also the timing antenna will mount to a 1" pipe and you can make the connection inside the pipe. With a 75 foot run you need to start thinking more seriously about cable. No, I don't think your antenna has a very good view of the sky. the plot says the overhead view is good but the horizon is blocked. The "good view" means that from the antenna's location you can see the horizon all the way around 360 degrees (except directly North, that does not matter.) You need to place the antenna high enough to se over thatblockage you have to the So. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
