[time-nuts] thoughts on lightning arrestors
Bark effect? ;-) Lightning hit a tree behind where I lived and three other trees near it also exploded... you ain't gonna arrest a direct lightning strike. --- Skin effect did not save the tree. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] thoughts on lightning arrestors
Two of nature's great forces are hurricanes and thunderstorms. A cloud with dimensions measured in miles can accumulate a great deal of static charge during a storm, thousands of times more than any human-built accumulator. When the volts/meter between the cloud and the ground become high enough, lightning bores an ionized hole through the air to some point on the ground. Occasionally the point on the ground is a tall tree. Just up the road from here (MN, USA), lightning struck a tall thick tree during a storm. The tree exploded from the pressure of steam generated by electrical heating during the brief duration of the strike. The trunk was split into four long parts, one of which landed on the roof of the nearest house. That's quite a demonstration of energy. Skin effect did not save the tree. So I wonder about this concept of a lightning "arrestor". The report referenced by Arthur Dent is quite complete. It also says, at the bottom of page two, "It is impossible to prevent damage from a direct lightning strike ..." Why, then, do people sell lightning arrestors when they wouldn't dream of selling hurricane arrestors? Perhaps it is because we create models of reality from our own experiences. Most of us have controlled electricity in some way, so it ought to be a piece of cake to arrest lightning. People who have witnessed the power of lightning have a different model. This business of grounding or Earthing suffers from differences in scale. Human-generated electricity can be dissipated with ground rods if the soil conditions are right. When lightning pumps hundreds of kiloamps into the ground, the results can be measured in kilovolts per meter. This is what electrocutes cows near struck trees, and why a golfer should hunker down and keep his feet together when his hair rises. You can rely on probability to avoid a direct hit, or you can erect tall grounded masts around your tallest object. This proven method is used by NASA to protect rockets on the launch pads. Each mast provides a cone of protection with an angle of 45 to 60 degrees to the ground. See, for example, http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/lc39b_lightning.htm l - but you may need sand saturated with salt water for it to work. Read the "Antenna System Grounding Requirements" and learn what you can do to arrest the surges that accompany nearby strikes. The term "surge arrestor" is much more accurate than "lightning arrestor". Yours for safe time research, Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Arthur Dent Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:42 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] lightening protection of a GPSDO system / optical isolated distribution amp Here is a link to a good 12 page description of grounding practices/requirements. http://www.reeve.com/Documents/Articles%20Papers/AntennaSystemGroundingR equirements_Reeve.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Plus the Z3801A seems to just work. On the Lucent boxes we had to suffer through many 100's of posts over the last month... Sent From iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 16:57, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > Phase noise at 100 Hz, I’ll give you that on to the Z3801. ADEV on the sample > I have of the 3801 and KS boxes are pretty darn close. > > Bob > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:45 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts >> wrote: >> >> The 58503A we got have much better ADEV and PN than what was posted recently >> on the Lucent boxes. TVB has many plots of the Z3801A on his website - same >> box. >> >> They used to be $399 on eBay, now likely $500 or more, but you get what you >> pay for.. >> >> Sent From iPhone >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 16:14, Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Let’s say that an OCXO based new part is $500. Who knows if that applies to >>> the Furry. If it does, that’s a really good price. Anything below that and >>> Santa Claus is coming to your house early. >>> >>> Are you putting this in a commercial system? >>> >>> Do you expect to need warranty support? >>> >>> I’d bet the reasonable answer to both is no. >>> >>> The KS boxes are $150 for the pair. They are new old stock. >>> >>> Do you believe the newer part works better than the KS ADEV wise? >>> >>> Again I’d say the reasonable answer is no. The KS boxes are essentially the >>> same as a Z3801 in terms of ADEV. >>> >>> You can get (in this example case) three of the KS box pairs and still save >>> money over the new part. Shipping might tip that one way or the other. >>> >>> Why would this matter? >>> >>> With three boxes, you can check them against each other and rule in / rule >>> out problems with any one pair. That’s keeping everything plug and play. If >>> you want to do a few “wire a connector” mods, you can have six sources to >>> compare against each other. You can also have a whole bunch of spares …. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: Dr David Kirkby > On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: > > Hi Dave: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 > > http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html > Brooke Clarke I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:45 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts > wrote: > > The 58503A we got have much better ADEV and PN than what was posted recently > on the Lucent boxes. TVB has many plots of the Z3801A on his website I see a lot of plots of free running 3801’s on the site. I only can find one plot of a locked 3801. The locked plot looks a lot like the ones I have posted. Is there a hidden page somewhere that I’m missing? Bob > - same box. > > They used to be $399 on eBay, now likely $500 or more, but you get what you > pay for.. > > Sent From iPhone > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 16:14, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Let’s say that an OCXO based new part is $500. Who knows if that applies to >> the Furry. If it does, that’s a really good price. Anything below that and >> Santa Claus is coming to your house early. >> >> Are you putting this in a commercial system? >> >> Do you expect to need warranty support? >> >> I’d bet the reasonable answer to both is no. >> >> The KS boxes are $150 for the pair. They are new old stock. >> >> Do you believe the newer part works better than the KS ADEV wise? >> >> Again I’d say the reasonable answer is no. The KS boxes are essentially the >> same as a Z3801 in terms of ADEV. >> >> You can get (in this example case) three of the KS box pairs and still save >> money over the new part. Shipping might tip that one way or the other. >> >> Why would this matter? >> >> With three boxes, you can check them against each other and rule in / rule >> out problems with any one pair. That’s keeping everything plug and play. If >> you want to do a few “wire a connector” mods, you can have six sources to >> compare against each other. You can also have a whole bunch of spares …. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dr David Kirkby >>> On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: Hi Dave: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html >>> Brooke Clarke >>> >>> I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury >>> from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't >>> know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. >>> >>> Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay >>> direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. >>> >>> Dave >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Truetime GPS-DC-416 specs ?
Hi all, Googling around I cant find much info on the Truetime GPS-DC-416 Does anyone have information or specification on that particular model ? thanks Tim -- VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSATVK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Homebrew frequency counter, need help
Hi One way of looking at resolution is at the one standard deviation point. Another way of looking at it is as a +/- 1 digit accuracy point. Each approach has it’s advantages. It’s more common to see single shot timing specified as one sigma and frequency specified as +/- 1 count. Often you need to read the fine print to see just what is being spec’d. > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:30 PM, LiAng wrote: > > Thanks for the info. > > What's the standard to be 11 digits/s? For real 11 digits/s, the ADEV > needs to reach the 1e-11 level? I'm not sure if my GPSDO & Rb is stable > enough. Maybe 2 MV89A as the refclk and signal? For the “easy” approach, first feed the counter’s reference back into the input. That will usually give you a “best result no matter what” sort of reading. It also will suppress a variety of problems coming from the reference signal. A source with a <1x10^-12 ADEV at 1 second should be good enough for testing a 10 to 11 digit counter. It’s not going to do the trick for a 12 digit device. In the case of a 12 digit device, use a second copy of what ever you are using for the reference for the counter …. —— Another approach, don’t measure frequency, measure period / time / phase. Generating a pulse that is 100 ns wide is fairly easy. Doing so with < 1 ps jitter is not impossible. If your signal source is good to a few ppm, your pulse generation accuracy will be “plenty good enough”. Things like rise and fall times through buffers will be a much bigger deal in the delivered result than the absolute accuracy of the clock feeding the circuit. If the counter measures the resulting pulse with a 10 ps one sigma error, you have a 10 ps counter. If it says that 100 ns is 102 ns, that’s to be expected with a simple pulse generation technique. Yes, you eventually do need to verify that 100 ns is 100 ns, but that can be done a different way. Bob > > > TDC-GP22 has it problem, I will post some data/schematic/source code > about it later. > > Thanks > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Don Latham wrote: > > I’ve just replaced the SR620 oxco option 01 with a Morion, by simply adding a > 7812 to the 15 v heater feed. Locks well with either gpsdo or cesium external > source. Don’t forget to turn on the external option and set the frequency for > 5 or 10 MHz. It took about 5 days for the Morion to reasonably settle down. > I agree about the Rb, has to be set with Gpsdo anyway, and I’ve already had > 2 of them go South. I’ve had much better luck with Rb’s once I started heat sinking them properly. I pretty much ignored that issue early on and would regularly loose them. So far I have not lost one with a decent heat sink (and sub 40C baseplate). Without heat sinking, some of them are up around 60-70C on the baseplate. Internal temps are even higher. Bob > > Prescalers from RFBay. > > Don > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: >> >> Hi David: >> >> For me the key benefit of the SR620 is the 16 digit display. That implies a >> lot of digits in the reference (although not all 16 of them) so I always use >> an external reference. >> >> When I turn the PRS-10 upside down the crystal changes frequency and the Rb >> corrects the crystal, see: >> http://www.prc68.com/I/PRS10.shtml#Accel >> http://www.prc68.com/I/Images/FC_ROT.jpg >> >> Mail_Attachment -- >> Have Fun, >> >> Brooke Clarke >> http://www.PRC68.com >> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html >> http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html >> Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: >>> On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi David: >>> Hi Brooke >>> If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that contains the PRS10. >>> Ah, I missed that!!! >>> >>> I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. >>> The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. >>> It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as >>> sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more >>> than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a >>> nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. >>> >>> This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of >>> course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb >>> source. >>> >>> I see one of the SR625 add-ons on eBay, >>> >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANFORD-RESEARCH-SYSTEMS-SR625-2GHz-PRESCALER-/281486714451?pt=US_Marine_Aircraft_Radios&hash=item4189ea6653 >>> >>> but it does not look in good condition, so I'm not paying $700 for it. >>> >>> Dave >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
I’ve just replaced the SR620 oxco option 01 with a Morion, by simply adding a 7812 to the 15 v heater feed. Locks well with either gpsdo or cesium external source. Don’t forget to turn on the external option and set the frequency for 5 or 10 MHz. It took about 5 days for the Morion to reasonably settle down. I agree about the Rb, has to be set with Gpsdo anyway, and I’ve already had 2 of them go South. Prescalers from RFBay. Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: > > Hi David: > > For me the key benefit of the SR620 is the 16 digit display. That implies a > lot of digits in the reference (although not all 16 of them) so I always use > an external reference. > > When I turn the PRS-10 upside down the crystal changes frequency and the Rb > corrects the crystal, see: > http://www.prc68.com/I/PRS10.shtml#Accel > http://www.prc68.com/I/Images/FC_ROT.jpg > > Mail_Attachment -- > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > http://www.PRC68.com > http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html > http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html > Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: >> On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: >>> Hi David: >> Hi Brooke >> >>> If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that >>> contains the PRS10. >> Ah, I missed that!!! >> >> I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. >> >>> The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For >>> the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. >> It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as >> sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more >> than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a >> nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. >> >> This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of >> course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb >> source. >> >> I see one of the SR625 add-ons on eBay, >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANFORD-RESEARCH-SYSTEMS-SR625-2GHz-PRESCALER-/281486714451?pt=US_Marine_Aircraft_Radios&hash=item4189ea6653 >> >> but it does not look in good condition, so I'm not paying $700 for it. >> >> Dave >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:31 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: > > You are correct I was referring to the 'instrument' version of the 10811A > with the edge connector. > > There are a lot of 10811A variants out there but the edge connector version > was used in most HP instruments with an ovenized time base of that vintage. > > It's worth buying dead option 1 instruments as they will have either a 10544 > or 10811A as the time base mount point and electronic interface are > standardized so upgrades are easy. That of course *assumes* that the OCXO is still in there. Most of the time it’s still there. I’ve seen a couple of sellers who (maybe) “part out” dead gear. It may have been done upstream of them, who knows. Bob > > > Content by Scott > Typos by Siri > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> In this case I suspect he’s referring to the version with the edge connector >> on it. That’s the one most instruments use rather than the connector only >> version or the “double oven” version. I believe that makes it a 10811A >> rather than a 10811B. >> >> There are a multitude of details here: >> >> https://www.febo.com/pages/hp10811/HP10811AB-Manual.pdf >> >> There are indeed other versions that came out after the manual. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:48 PM, Didier Juges wrote: >>> >>> "Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in" >>> >>> Note that there are many different versions of the 10811. I am familiar >>> with at least two incompatible mechanical configurations: one is >>> connectorized and the other is not. >>> >>> Didier KO4BB >>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in, you will need to add the heater oven indicator wiring and LED indicator which is usually over the power switch The power supply includes the oven supply already Content by Scott Typos by Siri >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" < > drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote: > > The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of > those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. > I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to > stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I > have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, > but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? > > Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is > backwards compatible. > > Dave > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi Phase noise at 100 Hz, I’ll give you that on to the Z3801. ADEV on the sample I have of the 3801 and KS boxes are pretty darn close. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:45 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts > wrote: > > The 58503A we got have much better ADEV and PN than what was posted recently > on the Lucent boxes. TVB has many plots of the Z3801A on his website - same > box. > > They used to be $399 on eBay, now likely $500 or more, but you get what you > pay for.. > > Sent From iPhone > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 16:14, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Let’s say that an OCXO based new part is $500. Who knows if that applies to >> the Furry. If it does, that’s a really good price. Anything below that and >> Santa Claus is coming to your house early. >> >> Are you putting this in a commercial system? >> >> Do you expect to need warranty support? >> >> I’d bet the reasonable answer to both is no. >> >> The KS boxes are $150 for the pair. They are new old stock. >> >> Do you believe the newer part works better than the KS ADEV wise? >> >> Again I’d say the reasonable answer is no. The KS boxes are essentially the >> same as a Z3801 in terms of ADEV. >> >> You can get (in this example case) three of the KS box pairs and still save >> money over the new part. Shipping might tip that one way or the other. >> >> Why would this matter? >> >> With three boxes, you can check them against each other and rule in / rule >> out problems with any one pair. That’s keeping everything plug and play. If >> you want to do a few “wire a connector” mods, you can have six sources to >> compare against each other. You can also have a whole bunch of spares …. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dr David Kirkby >>> On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: Hi Dave: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html >>> Brooke Clarke >>> >>> I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury >>> from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't >>> know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. >>> >>> Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay >>> direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. >>> >>> Dave >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
The 58503A we got have much better ADEV and PN than what was posted recently on the Lucent boxes. TVB has many plots of the Z3801A on his website - same box. They used to be $399 on eBay, now likely $500 or more, but you get what you pay for.. Sent From iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 16:14, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > Let’s say that an OCXO based new part is $500. Who knows if that applies to > the Furry. If it does, that’s a really good price. Anything below that and > Santa Claus is coming to your house early. > > Are you putting this in a commercial system? > > Do you expect to need warranty support? > > I’d bet the reasonable answer to both is no. > > The KS boxes are $150 for the pair. They are new old stock. > > Do you believe the newer part works better than the KS ADEV wise? > > Again I’d say the reasonable answer is no. The KS boxes are essentially the > same as a Z3801 in terms of ADEV. > > You can get (in this example case) three of the KS box pairs and still save > money over the new part. Shipping might tip that one way or the other. > > Why would this matter? > > With three boxes, you can check them against each other and rule in / rule > out problems with any one pair. That’s keeping everything plug and play. If > you want to do a few “wire a connector” mods, you can have six sources to > compare against each other. You can also have a whole bunch of spares …. > > Bob > > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) >> wrote: >> >> Dr David Kirkby >> >>> On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dave: >>> >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 >>> >>> http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html >> >>> Brooke Clarke >> >> I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury >> from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't >> know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. >> >> Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay >> direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. >> >> Dave >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi I’ve been using their products (and their competitors) to make transformers for at least 40 years. It’s amazingly easy to do. The problem has always been finding the raw cores without buying a ton of them at a time. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Dave M wrote: > > Here are a couple of links to some Fair-Rite documentation that can help you > determine which cores will work for broadband transformers > > Use of Ferrites in Broadband Transformers > http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/pdf/Broadband.pdf > > And the current Fair-Rite product catalog > http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/pdf/Fair-Rite_Catalog_17th_Edition.pdf > > HTH, > Dave M > > > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >>> >>> Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: Hi Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. >>> >>> No. These work quite good for me: >>> >>> CX2074 4:1 CT >>> CX2147 1:1 CT >> >> To get back to the original post: >> >> Which Fair-Rite cores listed on Mouser can be used for making >> transformers? >> >> There are a variety of people making pre-wound parts. >> >> Bob >> >>> >>> < >>> http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 >>> > >>> >>> The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. >>> The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). >>> Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. >>> >>> Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. >>> >>> regards, Gerhard > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi Those are the sort of parts I was looking for. There are about 10 of them listed at Mouser, all with rational prices. That’s a reasonable selection for starters. It’s still (unfortunately) a small selection compared to the full range of product. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:17 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > 43 binocular core: 2843002402, 14 cents qty 1 at Mouser. > > 77 binocular core: 2873000202, 59 cents qty 1 at Newark. > > 43 material toroid: 5943000201, 12 cents qty 1 at Mouser. > > Clifton Labs has good examples and measurements on transformers wound on > these and other cores. > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > >> To get back to the original post: >> >> Which Fair-Rite cores listed on Mouser can be used for making transformers? >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Here are a couple of links to some Fair-Rite documentation that can help you determine which cores will work for broadband transformers Use of Ferrites in Broadband Transformers http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/pdf/Broadband.pdf And the current Fair-Rite product catalog http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/pdf/Fair-Rite_Catalog_17th_Edition.pdf HTH, Dave M Bob Camp wrote: Hi On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: Hi Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. No. These work quite good for me: CX2074 4:1 CT CX2147 1:1 CT To get back to the original post: Which Fair-Rite cores listed on Mouser can be used for making transformers? There are a variety of people making pre-wound parts. Bob < http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 > The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. regards, Gerhard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Hi If you are really going to get everything “tight” at RF, solid grounds (properly done) and good shielding (well thought out) are going to do more for you than a lot of messing with circuits. Common mode chokes (outside cores) are way more likely to help than transformers. That assumes you are after RF. If you have a 60Hz problem (due to the mega power AC welder) you may need to approach things a bit differently. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: > > Yep. I found a lot of RF related issues appeared to go away when I switched > to double shielded cables, stopped using T connectors for distributing > signals, purchased and used HP distribution amps, terminated un used ports > with 50 ohm loads etc. > > I also found ferrite cores applied on the outside of longer cables to be > helpful as well. (I found it was useful to measure the actual currents > flowing in the cable shields before and after adding the ferrite cores.) > > I still have a couple of issues that occur when I occasionally transmit at > the 300 watt level on VHF but the day to day issues where by WWV on 5 and 10 > Mhz was hard to hear at times due to signal leakage and many low power > transmissions could be counted on to influence a time lab frequency plot are > gone now. > > I expect issues are still there but they are below the detection threshold > for me. My time nuts gear and radio gear are separate but still in the same > house. > > Mark Spencer > > On 2014-11-27, at 1:47 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> You can also discover interesting things about the transformer it’s self in >> some circuits. They do what they do, but they also bring along a new set of >> issues. Sometimes simpler is better. If you don’t *need* what the >> transformer does, why add more complications ? >> >> If you don’t lift the ground, the transformer isn’t doing much for you >> isolation wise. >> >> If you do lift the ground, you need a lot more than just the transformer to >> make it all work and isolate properly. Once you add all that “stuff” you >> don’t have a simple circuit anymore. >> >> —— >> >> One example: >> >> The most likely “threat” to your distribution system is a cell or portable >> phone. The beast fires up at random times and spews RF around everywhere. >> That’s the signal you want to isolate and shield against. It’s at some >> frequency between 40 MHz and 6 GHz depending on what it is. What ever you do >> needs to work over that range for isolation / shielding. It also needs to >> pass 10 MHz. Don’t have a phone in sight? How about WiFi, Bluetooth, and RF >> based remote controls …. >> >> Why is it a threat? The RF comes back into your amp and changes bias levels >> / inter modulates with the 10 MHz. Either way, your 10 MHz moves around a >> bit. Is this purely theoretical? Nope, it happens far more often than you’d >> think. I’ve seen it a number of times. >> >> A simple transformer at 10 MHz is not going to retain balance and isolation >> over 40MHz to 6 GHz. Even if it could the coax connector will imbalance it >> pretty badly. No balance = no isolation. >> >> --- >> >> Good cables and a passive splitter have their issues, so do logic gates. >> Both have their advantages. More complicated is not always better. >> >> 23 dBm out of a KS box going down to +7 out gives you 16 db of room for >> attenuation. At 3 db for each 2:1 split, that’s 2^5 splits. It’s rare to >> find a need for 32 outputs. You can get 8 outputs at +13 dbm. That’s pretty >> hot for a distribution amp output. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:02 PM, John Miles wrote: >>> >>> For the most part, you don't want transformer isolation unless you plan on >>> using balanced lines. There are worse things than ground loops out there, >>> and lifting a coax shield away from ground is a great way to find all of >>> them. >>> >>> You definitely don't want 10.7 MHz IF transformers, unless you are just >>> trying to build a thermometer. >>> >>> -- john, KE5FX >>> Miles Design LLC >>> -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry Sandeen via time-nuts Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:08 PM To: time-nuts Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions t
Re: [time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
You are correct I was referring to the 'instrument' version of the 10811A with the edge connector. There are a lot of 10811A variants out there but the edge connector version was used in most HP instruments with an ovenized time base of that vintage. It's worth buying dead option 1 instruments as they will have either a 10544 or 10811A as the time base mount point and electronic interface are standardized so upgrades are easy. Content by Scott Typos by Siri > On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > In this case I suspect he’s referring to the version with the edge connector > on it. That’s the one most instruments use rather than the connector only > version or the “double oven” version. I believe that makes it a 10811A rather > than a 10811B. > > There are a multitude of details here: > > https://www.febo.com/pages/hp10811/HP10811AB-Manual.pdf > > There are indeed other versions that came out after the manual. > > Bob > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:48 PM, Didier Juges wrote: >> >> "Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in" >> >> Note that there are many different versions of the 10811. I am familiar >> with at least two incompatible mechanical configurations: one is >> connectorized and the other is not. >> >> Didier KO4BB >> >>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >>> >>> Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in, you will need to add the >>> heater oven indicator wiring and LED indicator which is usually over the >>> power switch The power supply includes the oven supply already >>> >>> Content by Scott >>> Typos by Siri >>> > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" < drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote: The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is backwards compatible. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:59 PM, Jim Lux wrote: > > On 11/27/14, 3:10 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >> Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: >>> Hi >>> >>> Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. >> >> No. These work quite good for me: >> >> CX2074 4:1 CT >> CX2147 1:1 CT >> >> < >> http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 >> > >> >> The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. >> The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). >> Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. >> >> Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. >> > > Analog Devices seems to use these for their various application circuits > Up to 3 GHz is the Mini-Circuits TC1-1-13. > From 3 GHz to 4 GHz is the Johanson Technology > 3600BL14M050. > From 4.9 GHz to 6 GHz is the Johanson Technology > 5400BL15B050. For pre-wound parts, there are a number of outfits that will sell you sub $1 transformers. How well they work .. who knows. One example: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MABA-007159-00/1465-1302-2-ND/4429718 There are other parts in the same series at similar prices. Don’t want to go for the 2K pc minimum order? Price roughly doubles. Bob > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Yep. I found a lot of RF related issues appeared to go away when I switched to double shielded cables, stopped using T connectors for distributing signals, purchased and used HP distribution amps, terminated un used ports with 50 ohm loads etc. I also found ferrite cores applied on the outside of longer cables to be helpful as well. (I found it was useful to measure the actual currents flowing in the cable shields before and after adding the ferrite cores.) I still have a couple of issues that occur when I occasionally transmit at the 300 watt level on VHF but the day to day issues where by WWV on 5 and 10 Mhz was hard to hear at times due to signal leakage and many low power transmissions could be counted on to influence a time lab frequency plot are gone now. I expect issues are still there but they are below the detection threshold for me. My time nuts gear and radio gear are separate but still in the same house. Mark Spencer On 2014-11-27, at 1:47 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > You can also discover interesting things about the transformer it’s self in > some circuits. They do what they do, but they also bring along a new set of > issues. Sometimes simpler is better. If you don’t *need* what the transformer > does, why add more complications ? > > If you don’t lift the ground, the transformer isn’t doing much for you > isolation wise. > > If you do lift the ground, you need a lot more than just the transformer to > make it all work and isolate properly. Once you add all that “stuff” you > don’t have a simple circuit anymore. > > —— > > One example: > > The most likely “threat” to your distribution system is a cell or portable > phone. The beast fires up at random times and spews RF around everywhere. > That’s the signal you want to isolate and shield against. It’s at some > frequency between 40 MHz and 6 GHz depending on what it is. What ever you do > needs to work over that range for isolation / shielding. It also needs to > pass 10 MHz. Don’t have a phone in sight? How about WiFi, Bluetooth, and RF > based remote controls …. > > Why is it a threat? The RF comes back into your amp and changes bias levels / > inter modulates with the 10 MHz. Either way, your 10 MHz moves around a bit. > Is this purely theoretical? Nope, it happens far more often than you’d think. > I’ve seen it a number of times. > > A simple transformer at 10 MHz is not going to retain balance and isolation > over 40MHz to 6 GHz. Even if it could the coax connector will imbalance it > pretty badly. No balance = no isolation. > > --- > > Good cables and a passive splitter have their issues, so do logic gates. Both > have their advantages. More complicated is not always better. > > 23 dBm out of a KS box going down to +7 out gives you 16 db of room for > attenuation. At 3 db for each 2:1 split, that’s 2^5 splits. It’s rare to find > a need for 32 outputs. You can get 8 outputs at +13 dbm. That’s pretty hot > for a distribution amp output. > > Bob > > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:02 PM, John Miles wrote: >> >> For the most part, you don't want transformer isolation unless you plan on >> using balanced lines. There are worse things than ground loops out there, >> and lifting a coax shield away from ground is a great way to find all of >> them. >> >> You definitely don't want 10.7 MHz IF transformers, unless you are just >> trying to build a thermometer. >> >> -- john, KE5FX >> Miles Design LLC >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >>> Sandeen via time-nuts >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:08 PM >>> To: time-nuts >>> Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters >>> >>> List, >>> >>> >>> >>> I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no >>> idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Homebrew frequency counter, need help
Thanks for the info. What's the standard to be 11 digits/s? For real 11 digits/s, the ADEV needs to reach the 1e-11 level? I'm not sure if my GPSDO & Rb is stable enough. Maybe 2 MV89A as the refclk and signal? TDC-GP22 has it problem, I will post some data/schematic/source code about it later. Thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
43 binocular core: 2843002402, 14 cents qty 1 at Mouser. 77 binocular core: 2873000202, 59 cents qty 1 at Newark. 43 material toroid: 5943000201, 12 cents qty 1 at Mouser. Clifton Labs has good examples and measurements on transformers wound on these and other cores. On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > To get back to the original post: > > Which Fair-Rite cores listed on Mouser can be used for making transformers? > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi Let’s say that an OCXO based new part is $500. Who knows if that applies to the Furry. If it does, that’s a really good price. Anything below that and Santa Claus is coming to your house early. Are you putting this in a commercial system? Do you expect to need warranty support? I’d bet the reasonable answer to both is no. The KS boxes are $150 for the pair. They are new old stock. Do you believe the newer part works better than the KS ADEV wise? Again I’d say the reasonable answer is no. The KS boxes are essentially the same as a Z3801 in terms of ADEV. You can get (in this example case) three of the KS box pairs and still save money over the new part. Shipping might tip that one way or the other. Why would this matter? With three boxes, you can check them against each other and rule in / rule out problems with any one pair. That’s keeping everything plug and play. If you want to do a few “wire a connector” mods, you can have six sources to compare against each other. You can also have a whole bunch of spares …. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > Dr David Kirkby > > On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: >> >> Hi Dave: >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 >> >> http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html > >> Brooke Clarke > > I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury > from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't > know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. > > Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay > direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. > > Dave > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
Hi In this case I suspect he’s referring to the version with the edge connector on it. That’s the one most instruments use rather than the connector only version or the “double oven” version. I believe that makes it a 10811A rather than a 10811B. There are a multitude of details here: https://www.febo.com/pages/hp10811/HP10811AB-Manual.pdf There are indeed other versions that came out after the manual. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:48 PM, Didier Juges wrote: > > "Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in" > > Note that there are many different versions of the 10811. I am familiar > with at least two incompatible mechanical configurations: one is > connectorized and the other is not. > > Didier KO4BB > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: > >> Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in, you will need to add the >> heater oven indicator wiring and LED indicator which is usually over the >> power switch The power supply includes the oven supply already >> >> Content by Scott >> Typos by Siri >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" < >> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of >>> those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. >>> I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to >>> stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I >>> have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, >>> but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? >>> >>> Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is >>> backwards compatible. >>> >>> Dave >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Dr David Kirkby On 27 Nov 2014 23:27, "Brooke Clarke" wrote: > > Hi Dave: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 > > http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html > Brooke Clarke I was aware of them, and are still contemplating getting one, but the Fury from Jackson Labs uses an OCXO, so will have better performance. I don't know what that costs though. Clearly more than the LTE Lite. Siad should consider putting the Fury on eBay, but I would rather pay direct, which would save them the eBay fees, so hopefully cost me less. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On 11/27/14, 3:10 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: Hi Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. No. These work quite good for me: CX2074 4:1 CT CX2147 1:1 CT < http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 > The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. Analog Devices seems to use these for their various application circuits Up to 3 GHz is the Mini-Circuits TC1-1-13. From 3 GHz to 4 GHz is the Johanson Technology 3600BL14M050. From 4.9 GHz to 6 GHz is the Johanson Technology 5400BL15B050. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
We have a number of these upgraded units from China, ours have the double oven 10811 and they are awesome. Great ADEV and great PN and very little spurs. In fact we use them as house standards for our TimePod and TSC5125A. They are upgraded to a nice desktop case and the 58503A firmware. They may need several months to a year (yes, a year!) or more to fully settle down. Drawbacks: minor spurs at 60/120Hz etc, and not so great isolation between the two 10MHz outputs. Our TCXOs are ready to go minutes after power on, very little retrace and warmup required. Thats the big tcxo advantage over Rbs and OCXOs. Bye, Said Sent From iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 15:34, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) >> wrote: >> >> There's a seller on eBay selling what he says is Z3801A upgraded to >> 58503A. One or two things have made me a bit suspicious of that seller >> - nothing to do with his GPS things. Does anyone know what he does? He >> also have an 58503A, but that's a couple of hundred $'s more than an >> upgraded Z3801A. > > Most (if not all) of the eBay 58503’s are repackaged Z3801’s. There is very > little difference between the two of them. The 3801 manual sends you off to > the 58503 manual for a number of details. > >> >> I've been thinking of buying one of the Jackson Labs devices, which is >> obviously a more modern design, but I'm giving some consideration to >> buying a used GPSDO with an OCXO, rather than a TCXO. By the time I >> purchase the TCXO based unit, stick it in a box, build a buffer, add a >> power supply etc etc, it is not going to work out a lot cheaper than >> buying a used OCXO device. > > If you can keep it on power all the time, the OCXO is the better way to go. > If you want portable / fast turn on the TCXO is the way to go. Once it’s > settled in, the OCXO will outperform the TCXO for every spec other than input > power and size. > >> >> My mind is not made up about this. There are advantages and >> disadvantages of both. > > The TCXO is very specialized. The OCXO is the solution most go with. > > Bob > >> >> >> Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET >> Kirkby Microwave Ltd >> Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, >> UK. >> Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. >> http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ >> Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: >> Hi >> >> Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. > > No. These work quite good for me: > > CX2074 4:1 CT > CX2147 1:1 CT To get back to the original post: Which Fair-Rite cores listed on Mouser can be used for making transformers? There are a variety of people making pre-wound parts. Bob > > < > http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 > > > > The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. > The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). > Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. > > Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. > > regards, Gerhard > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
"Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in" Note that there are many different versions of the 10811. I am familiar with at least two incompatible mechanical configurations: one is connectorized and the other is not. Didier KO4BB On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: > Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in, you will need to add the > heater oven indicator wiring and LED indicator which is usually over the > power switch The power supply includes the oven supply already > > Content by Scott > Typos by Siri > > > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" < > drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote: > > > > The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of > > those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. > > I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to > > stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I > > have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, > > but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? > > > > Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is > > backwards compatible. > > > > Dave > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Am 27.11.2014 um 23:30 schrieb Bob Camp: Hi Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. No. These work quite good for me: CX2074 4:1 CT CX2147 1:1 CT < http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de/rf-if-and-rfid/balun/3539019?k=cx2074 > The 1:1 is optimum for the NIST doubler at the sources, btw. The 4:1 as an autotransformer 9:1 at the drains. (2*BF862). Gives you 13 dBm @ 2f for 13 dBm in at 1f upto 40 MHz in. Still searching a good balun xformer for 800 MHz in.--> 1600 out. regards, Gerhard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
Just remove the TCXO the 10811 just plugs in, you will need to add the heater oven indicator wiring and LED indicator which is usually over the power switch The power supply includes the oven supply already Content by Scott Typos by Siri > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" > wrote: > > The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of > those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. > I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to > stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I > have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, > but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? > > Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is > backwards compatible. > > Dave > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > There's a seller on eBay selling what he says is Z3801A upgraded to > 58503A. One or two things have made me a bit suspicious of that seller > - nothing to do with his GPS things. Does anyone know what he does? He > also have an 58503A, but that's a couple of hundred $'s more than an > upgraded Z3801A. Most (if not all) of the eBay 58503’s are repackaged Z3801’s. There is very little difference between the two of them. The 3801 manual sends you off to the 58503 manual for a number of details. > > I've been thinking of buying one of the Jackson Labs devices, which is > obviously a more modern design, but I'm giving some consideration to > buying a used GPSDO with an OCXO, rather than a TCXO. By the time I > purchase the TCXO based unit, stick it in a box, build a buffer, add a > power supply etc etc, it is not going to work out a lot cheaper than > buying a used OCXO device. If you can keep it on power all the time, the OCXO is the better way to go. If you want portable / fast turn on the TCXO is the way to go. Once it’s settled in, the OCXO will outperform the TCXO for every spec other than input power and size. > > My mind is not made up about this. There are advantages and > disadvantages of both. The TCXO is very specialized. The OCXO is the solution most go with. Bob > > > Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET > Kirkby Microwave Ltd > Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, > UK. > Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. > http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ > Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi Price wise, there is only one solution worth looking at: Get one of the nice new in box Lucent KS GPSDO’s. At the moment they are priced below the TCXO based new parts. That will not be true for very long. > On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > On 27 November 2014 at 23:03, Bill Dailey wrote: >> Get the Fury. Plug and play. > > Any idea of the price? I was thinking about that, and was going to ask > Said what the price is, but if you have a rough idea, I would be > interested to know. I might suggest he puts them on eBay too - I could > be tempted. You can be pretty sure it will be some multiplier over the TCXO based unit. Multipliers like 2,3, and 4 come to mind based on previous postings. Bob > > Dave > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Hi Dave: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171504585820 http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 27 November 2014 at 23:03, Bill Dailey wrote: Get the Fury. Plug and play. Any idea of the price? I was thinking about that, and was going to ask Said what the price is, but if you have a rough idea, I would be interested to know. I might suggest he puts them on eBay too - I could be tempted. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
Hi David: For me the key benefit of the SR620 is the 16 digit display. That implies a lot of digits in the reference (although not all 16 of them) so I always use an external reference. When I turn the PRS-10 upside down the crystal changes frequency and the Rb corrects the crystal, see: http://www.prc68.com/I/PRS10.shtml#Accel http://www.prc68.com/I/Images/FC_ROT.jpg Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi David: Hi Brooke If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that contains the PRS10. Ah, I missed that!!! I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb source. I see one of the SR625 add-ons on eBay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANFORD-RESEARCH-SYSTEMS-SR625-2GHz-PRESCALER-/281486714451?pt=US_Marine_Aircraft_Radios&hash=item4189ea6653 but it does not look in good condition, so I'm not paying $700 for it. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
On 27 November 2014 at 23:03, Bill Dailey wrote: > Get the Fury. Plug and play. Any idea of the price? I was thinking about that, and was going to ask Said what the price is, but if you have a rough idea, I would be interested to know. I might suggest he puts them on eBay too - I could be tempted. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
Get the Fury. Plug and play. Sent from mobile > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > There's a seller on eBay selling what he says is Z3801A upgraded to > 58503A. One or two things have made me a bit suspicious of that seller > - nothing to do with his GPS things. Does anyone know what he does? He > also have an 58503A, but that's a couple of hundred $'s more than an > upgraded Z3801A. > > I've been thinking of buying one of the Jackson Labs devices, which is > obviously a more modern design, but I'm giving some consideration to > buying a used GPSDO with an OCXO, rather than a TCXO. By the time I > purchase the TCXO based unit, stick it in a box, build a buffer, add a > power supply etc etc, it is not going to work out a lot cheaper than > buying a used OCXO device. > > My mind is not made up about this. There are advantages and > disadvantages of both. > > > Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET > Kirkby Microwave Ltd > Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, > UK. > Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. > http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ > Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
David, On 11/27/2014 11:37 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi David: Hi Brooke If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that contains the PRS10. Ah, I missed that!!! I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. Having both, I'd say that it would be a difficult task to do, without even attempting to measure. The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb source. This is their SC10 SC-cut OCXO, which is pretty good actually. If you do the calibration every now and then you should be fine. One of the uses for rubidiums was that the counter wasn't as sensitive to being turned around, which proved to be a problem in field calibrations of base-stations (up on ladders and other crazyness). The only real benefit of the 625 is a neat combo. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] eBay seller has Z3801A upgraded to 58503A
There's a seller on eBay selling what he says is Z3801A upgraded to 58503A. One or two things have made me a bit suspicious of that seller - nothing to do with his GPS things. Does anyone know what he does? He also have an 58503A, but that's a couple of hundred $'s more than an upgraded Z3801A. I've been thinking of buying one of the Jackson Labs devices, which is obviously a more modern design, but I'm giving some consideration to buying a used GPSDO with an OCXO, rather than a TCXO. By the time I purchase the TCXO based unit, stick it in a box, build a buffer, add a power supply etc etc, it is not going to work out a lot cheaper than buying a used OCXO device. My mind is not made up about this. There are advantages and disadvantages of both. Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK. Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi David: Hi Brooke > If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that > contains the PRS10. Ah, I missed that!!! I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. > The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For > the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb source. I see one of the SR625 add-ons on eBay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANFORD-RESEARCH-SYSTEMS-SR625-2GHz-PRESCALER-/281486714451?pt=US_Marine_Aircraft_Radios&hash=item4189ea6653 but it does not look in good condition, so I'm not paying $700 for it. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Upgrade an HP 5342A microwave frequency counter to have an oven oscillator.
The HP 5342A has an optional oven oscillator. I just bought one of those counters, but mine has a TCXO and is about 50 kHz off at 10 GHz. I'm sure I can trim it closer than that, but if possible I'd like to stick an oven oscillator in it. Does anyone know what is involved? I have at least one 10811A oscillator here that I could stick inside, but does it need any more, or just the oscillator? Someone said the oscillator should be an 10544-60011, but a 10811A is backwards compatible. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
Hi Given the relatively short life of some Rb’s and their usefulness as a reference for many things … better to have the 620 and an external Rb. Next level is that Rb’s run pretty hot (lots of power). The 620 already is a bit warm inside. Adding even more heat does not sound very attractive. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:06 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > I finally paid for a used SR620 > > http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR620.htm > > today, after the seller has done quite a few tests on it, so hopefully > I should have a good one. > > I note Stanford Research also do an SR625 > > http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR625.htm > > which seems to have two differences > > a) It uses a PRS10 timebase > b) Has a 2 GHz pre-scaler. > > I wonder if anyone has tried fitting a PRS10 into an SR620 to make it > close to an SR625? I'm not too fussed about having 2 GHz, as I just > bought a nice condition HP 5342A microwave (18 GHz) counter. But I > would be interested in fitting an Rb source in the SR620. > > > > Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET > Kirkby Microwave Ltd > Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, > UK. > Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. > http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ > Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi Finding the RF transformer parts is still a bit of a challenge. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:21 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Mouser carries a selection from Fair-Rite. They don't make it easy to > find a specific part number, however. > > http://www.mouser.com/Fair-Rite/Passive-Components/EMI-RFI-Components/EMI-RFI-Suppressors-Ferrites/Ferrite-Toroids-Ferrite-Rings/_/N-bw7t9?P=1z13m3cZ1yxh9di > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> Again I refer you to Clifton Labs website and cross-references there to the >> Fair-Rite part numbers/mixes. Although the marketing largely emphasizes EMI >> suppression, all the mainline distributors now offer several mixes and core >> styles that are perfect for RF transformers. >> >> Powdered iron, yeah, those are not so easily found at mainline >> distributors, I end up getting them from kitsandparts.com or Amidon. >> >> And to Jim's point... "build your own" MMIC from discrete RF transistors >> (often different generations of CATV-oriented transistors - you get the >> advantage that you get tune bias currents etc. for individual need) is >> quite easy using parts stocked at Mouser etc. They also have these >> impressive super-beefy broadband CATV distribution/isolation amplifiers. >> >> Tim N3QE >> >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> At least last time I looked, the "easy to find" distributors had great >>> selections of parts used for switching power supplies and EMI suppression. >>> When you started to dig for the specialized parts for RF transformers and >>> tuned filters, the stock was pretty thin to nonexistent. If you move from >>> ferrite to powdered iron, the search process alway has been more >>> difficult... >>> >>> Bob >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I >>> seem > to have a few dozen bags of cores. The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number may not be evident. Clifton labs has excellent webpages of examples and is also a good way to find the cores sizes and materials commonly stocked at the mainline distributors using the manufacturer's part number (often with cross-ref >>> to Amidon style number as a strong hint!) Recently some here expressed concern that the mini-circuits part may saturate with medium DC currents. Of course if you are doing a SMT production run you don't want to use bigger cores than necessary and most of the mini-circuits parts tend to be physically very tiny to meet this market. But if you wind your own on bigger cores this is a non-issue. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Mouser carries a selection from Fair-Rite. They don't make it easy to find a specific part number, however. http://www.mouser.com/Fair-Rite/Passive-Components/EMI-RFI-Components/EMI-RFI-Suppressors-Ferrites/Ferrite-Toroids-Ferrite-Rings/_/N-bw7t9?P=1z13m3cZ1yxh9di Joe Gray W5JG On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Again I refer you to Clifton Labs website and cross-references there to the > Fair-Rite part numbers/mixes. Although the marketing largely emphasizes EMI > suppression, all the mainline distributors now offer several mixes and core > styles that are perfect for RF transformers. > > Powdered iron, yeah, those are not so easily found at mainline > distributors, I end up getting them from kitsandparts.com or Amidon. > > And to Jim's point... "build your own" MMIC from discrete RF transistors > (often different generations of CATV-oriented transistors - you get the > advantage that you get tune bias currents etc. for individual need) is > quite easy using parts stocked at Mouser etc. They also have these > impressive super-beefy broadband CATV distribution/isolation amplifiers. > > Tim N3QE > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> At least last time I looked, the "easy to find" distributors had great >> selections of parts used for switching power supplies and EMI suppression. >> When you started to dig for the specialized parts for RF transformers and >> tuned filters, the stock was pretty thin to nonexistent. If you move from >> ferrite to powdered iron, the search process alway has been more >> difficult... >> >> Bob >> >> > On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> > >> >> The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I >> seem >> >> to have a few dozen bags of cores. >> > >> > >> > The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent >> > selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the >> > equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number >> > may not be evident. >> > >> > Clifton labs has excellent webpages of examples and is also a good way to >> > find the cores sizes and materials commonly stocked at the mainline >> > distributors using the manufacturer's part number (often with cross-ref >> to >> > Amidon style number as a strong hint!) >> > >> > Recently some here expressed concern that the mini-circuits part may >> > saturate with medium DC currents. Of course if you are doing a SMT >> > production run you don't want to use bigger cores than necessary and most >> > of the mini-circuits parts tend to be physically very tiny to meet this >> > market. But if you wind your own on bigger cores this is a non-issue. >> > >> > Tim N3QE >> > ___ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
Hi David: If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that contains the PRS10. The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. http://www.prc68.com/I/LTE-LiteGPSDO.html#Related Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: I finally paid for a used SR620 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR620.htm today, after the seller has done quite a few tests on it, so hopefully I should have a good one. I note Stanford Research also do an SR625 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR625.htm which seems to have two differences a) It uses a PRS10 timebase b) Has a 2 GHz pre-scaler. I wonder if anyone has tried fitting a PRS10 into an SR620 to make it close to an SR625? I'm not too fussed about having 2 GHz, as I just bought a nice condition HP 5342A microwave (18 GHz) counter. But I would be interested in fitting an Rb source in the SR620. Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK. Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
I finally paid for a used SR620 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR620.htm today, after the seller has done quite a few tests on it, so hopefully I should have a good one. I note Stanford Research also do an SR625 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR625.htm which seems to have two differences a) It uses a PRS10 timebase b) Has a 2 GHz pre-scaler. I wonder if anyone has tried fitting a PRS10 into an SR620 to make it close to an SR625? I'm not too fussed about having 2 GHz, as I just bought a nice condition HP 5342A microwave (18 GHz) counter. But I would be interested in fitting an Rb source in the SR620. Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK. Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Does adjusting ocxo's degrade adev / madev ?
Mark wrote: I've long had a nagging suspicion that OCXO's that are not adjusted will in practice have lower ADEV than ones that are tweaked regularly. Several days ago I noticed that one of my 10811's was performing quite well (I believe this is the first time any of 10811's have delivered adev / madev numbers in the 13's) and this was sustained for approx 2 days. After trimming the frequency and letting it sit for a number of hours I noticed the adev was notably worse. Every time a quartz oscillator is disturbed in any way, its stability is very likely to go down for a time until it settles back in. The disturbance could be adjusting its frequency (either mechanically or via EFC), interrupting the power, changing the crystal temperature, physically bumping the unit, or anything else that changes its operation. How long it takes to settle back into "normally stable" operation depends on the crystal itself and on how violent the disturbance was. I would never expect a quartz oscillator to be back to normal stability for at least some days after a macro frequency adjustment. [Tiny, tiny adjustments such as done by ongoing GPS discipline do not seem to have a large effect on the stability of quartz oscillators.] But I note that you say an oscillator that had never delivered stability in the e-13's had a couple of very good days, and then didn't go back to the e-13's in a number of hours. First, you probably shouldn't expect it to go back to the "couple of good days" level -- it's likely to go back to its "normal" level. And second, you shouldn't expect it to get there for at least a few days. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Hi You can also discover interesting things about the transformer it’s self in some circuits. They do what they do, but they also bring along a new set of issues. Sometimes simpler is better. If you don’t *need* what the transformer does, why add more complications ? If you don’t lift the ground, the transformer isn’t doing much for you isolation wise. If you do lift the ground, you need a lot more than just the transformer to make it all work and isolate properly. Once you add all that “stuff” you don’t have a simple circuit anymore. —— One example: The most likely “threat” to your distribution system is a cell or portable phone. The beast fires up at random times and spews RF around everywhere. That’s the signal you want to isolate and shield against. It’s at some frequency between 40 MHz and 6 GHz depending on what it is. What ever you do needs to work over that range for isolation / shielding. It also needs to pass 10 MHz. Don’t have a phone in sight? How about WiFi, Bluetooth, and RF based remote controls …. Why is it a threat? The RF comes back into your amp and changes bias levels / inter modulates with the 10 MHz. Either way, your 10 MHz moves around a bit. Is this purely theoretical? Nope, it happens far more often than you’d think. I’ve seen it a number of times. A simple transformer at 10 MHz is not going to retain balance and isolation over 40MHz to 6 GHz. Even if it could the coax connector will imbalance it pretty badly. No balance = no isolation. --- Good cables and a passive splitter have their issues, so do logic gates. Both have their advantages. More complicated is not always better. 23 dBm out of a KS box going down to +7 out gives you 16 db of room for attenuation. At 3 db for each 2:1 split, that’s 2^5 splits. It’s rare to find a need for 32 outputs. You can get 8 outputs at +13 dbm. That’s pretty hot for a distribution amp output. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:02 PM, John Miles wrote: > > For the most part, you don't want transformer isolation unless you plan on > using balanced lines. There are worse things than ground loops out there, > and lifting a coax shield away from ground is a great way to find all of them. > > You definitely don't want 10.7 MHz IF transformers, unless you are just > trying to build a thermometer. > > -- john, KE5FX > Miles Design LLC > >> -Original Message- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >> Sandeen via time-nuts >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:08 PM >> To: time-nuts >> Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters >> >> List, >> >> >> >> I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no >> idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Does adjusting ocxo's degrade adev / madev ?
Just replaced an ocxo in my ST620 with a Moron ocxo, which had been unpowered for a few years in all probability. It took several days to come to a reasonable equilibrium. In a system with as many components as an ocxo, I suspect that seeking a new equilibrium will take an appreciable time well beyond design criteria, as Charles expresses. Hunting time constants may indeed be quite long. Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > > Mark wrote: > >> I've long had a nagging suspicion that OCXO's that are not adjusted will in >> practice have lower ADEV than ones that are tweaked regularly. Several >> days ago I noticed that one of my 10811's was performing quite well (I >> believe this is the first time any of 10811's have delivered adev / madev >> numbers in the 13's) and this was sustained for approx 2 days. After >> trimming the frequency and letting it sit for a number of hours I noticed >> the adev was notably worse. > > Every time a quartz oscillator is disturbed in any way, its stability is very > likely to go down for a time until it settles back in. The disturbance could > be adjusting its frequency (either mechanically or via EFC), interrupting the > power, changing the crystal temperature, physically bumping the unit, or > anything else that changes its operation. How long it takes to settle back > into "normally stable" operation depends on the crystal itself and on how > violent the disturbance was. I would never expect a quartz oscillator to be > back to normal stability for at least some days after a macro frequency > adjustment. [Tiny, tiny adjustments such as done by ongoing GPS discipline > do not seem to have a large effect on the stability of quartz oscillators.] > > But I note that you say an oscillator that had never delivered stability in > the e-13's had a couple of very good days, and then didn't go back to the > e-13's in a number of hours. First, you probably shouldn't expect it to go > back to the "couple of good days" level -- it's likely to go back to its > "normal" level. And second, you shouldn't expect it to get there for at > least a few days. > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
As the things I want to do become more complex, and time gets more precious, I have adopted the mantra “buy the biggest piece you can. . .” Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist > wrote: > > > > On 11/27/2014 11:03 AM, Didier Juges wrote: >> Another reason is reproducibility. If you or someone else wants > > to reproduce your design, using a well defined and available > > commercial part makes it much easier to achieve the same > > performance, particularly for RF components. >> >> Didier KO4BB > > Exactly right. > > I wrote an article on receiving loops and showed a design > with a 50:5 (turns ratio) transformer wound on a toroid. > Again, this is not available from MiniCircuits. I have > wasted time dealing with numerous dumb questions about > "can I use XXX core that I have laying around the lab?" > or can I use a different gauge wire to wind it, etc. > So many people complained about the shipping cost to > buy one core that I stocked the cores and included them > with PC boards I was already selling to reduce the shipping > cost to "zero". > > BTW, 73 material would NOT work in this application. > I was asked about that multiple times even though the > article specifically said it would not work and explained > why. > > Rick Karlquist N6RK > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On 11/27/2014 11:03 AM, Didier Juges wrote: Another reason is reproducibility. If you or someone else wants to reproduce your design, using a well defined and available commercial part makes it much easier to achieve the same performance, particularly for RF components. Didier KO4BB Exactly right. I wrote an article on receiving loops and showed a design with a 50:5 (turns ratio) transformer wound on a toroid. Again, this is not available from MiniCircuits. I have wasted time dealing with numerous dumb questions about "can I use XXX core that I have laying around the lab?" or can I use a different gauge wire to wind it, etc. So many people complained about the shipping cost to buy one core that I stocked the cores and included them with PC boards I was already selling to reduce the shipping cost to "zero". BTW, 73 material would NOT work in this application. I was asked about that multiple times even though the article specifically said it would not work and explained why. Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Hi Even if you are running 50 ohm loads, with 4 outputs, a power splitter is a very real solution. You will be down 6 db on each output. If you start with +13 you will have +7 dbm. Your target devices probably are happy as can be with anything over +3 dbm. - If you are worrying about WWVB problems, don’t just look at the cables. Check the connectors as well. BNC’s loose shielding capability much quicker than they get to a high insertion loss. I’ve had a *lot* of grief from them over the years. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: > > I have 4 or 5 devices that use the 10 MHz from my Trimble Thunderbolt. > All but one have high impedance 10 MHz inputs, so the Thunderbolt > can drive the lot without any amplifier. > > When I put together my Thunderbolt, power supply, and filter I assumed I would > need a distribution amp ans made provisions for it. Turns out it is not > necessary. > > The real trick was locating well shielded patch cables to keep the > Thunderbolt from > jamming WWV on 10 MHz. > > On 11/27/2014 08:41 AM, Richard Solomon wrote: >> If you want to see how to really do it right, check out this distribution Amp >> on the TAPR site. >> >> https://www.tapr.org/kits_tadd-1.html >> >> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >> >> >> On 11/26/2014 9:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: >>> List, >>> >>> >>> I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have >>> no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent >>> boxes. >>> >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> >>> On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy >>> 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder >>> filter? >>> >>> >>> In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the >>> author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN >>> board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low >>> prices. >>> >>> >>> Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to >>> build from scratch. >>> >>> >>> Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new >>> style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with >>> good isolation? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Perrier >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > -- > Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com > Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications > Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" > 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
For the most part, you don't want transformer isolation unless you plan on using balanced lines. There are worse things than ground loops out there, and lifting a coax shield away from ground is a great way to find all of them. You definitely don't want 10.7 MHz IF transformers, unless you are just trying to build a thermometer. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry > Sandeen via time-nuts > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:08 PM > To: time-nuts > Subject: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters > > List, > > > > I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no > idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
YES! That's exactly why I go to Mini-Circuits. Jim On 11/27/2014 2:03 PM, Didier Juges wrote: Another reason is reproducibility. If you or someone else wants to reproduce your design, using a well defined and available commercial part makes it much easier to achieve the same performance, particularly for RF components. Didier KO4BB On November 27, 2014 12:41:34 PM CST, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote: On 11/27/2014 7:07 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there to buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them using commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to wind them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for the particular application. Tim N3QE You need the tiny cores to get the performance of the MiniCircuits transformers. You just can't get the same bandwidth using macro sized "binocular" cores. Now, if you don't need a lot of bandwidth, then what you are saying could make sense. Another issue is stray capacitance. Considerably lower with a tiny core. I have spent many hours characterizing MiniCircuits transformers beyond the data sheet specs, and dissecting them to learn how they do it. They really do have a lot of rocket science in them. In terms of the engineering I am buying (especially in a one-off application) they are ridiculously cheap. And I say that as a fairly knowledgeable transformer designer in my own right. I do keep binocular cores around for higher power transformers, and for "emergencies" when I need a transformer "yesterday". Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
I have 4 or 5 devices that use the 10 MHz from my Trimble Thunderbolt. All but one have high impedance 10 MHz inputs, so the Thunderbolt can drive the lot without any amplifier. When I put together my Thunderbolt, power supply, and filter I assumed I would need a distribution amp ans made provisions for it. Turns out it is not necessary. The real trick was locating well shielded patch cables to keep the Thunderbolt from jamming WWV on 10 MHz. On 11/27/2014 08:41 AM, Richard Solomon wrote: If you want to see how to really do it right, check out this distribution Amp on the TAPR site. https://www.tapr.org/kits_tadd-1.html 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/26/2014 9:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. Thoughts? On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low prices. Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to build from scratch. Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with good isolation? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Another reason is reproducibility. If you or someone else wants to reproduce your design, using a well defined and available commercial part makes it much easier to achieve the same performance, particularly for RF components. Didier KO4BB On November 27, 2014 12:41:34 PM CST, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote: > > >On 11/27/2014 7:07 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there >to >> buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them >using >> commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? >> >> If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT >> transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a >> distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to >wind >> them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for >the >> particular application. >> >> Tim N3QE > >You need the tiny cores to get the performance of the MiniCircuits >transformers. You just can't get the same bandwidth using macro sized >"binocular" cores. Now, if you don't need a lot of bandwidth, then >what you are saying could make sense. Another issue is stray >capacitance. Considerably lower with a tiny core. > >I have spent many hours characterizing MiniCircuits transformers >beyond the data sheet specs, and dissecting them to learn how they >do it. They really do have a lot of rocket science in them. In >terms of the engineering I am buying (especially in a one-off >application) they are ridiculously cheap. And I say that as a fairly >knowledgeable transformer designer in my own right. > >I do keep binocular cores around for higher power transformers, and >for "emergencies" when I need a transformer "yesterday". > >Rick Karlquist N6RK >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr HD 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On 11/27/2014 9:09 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I seem to have a few dozen bags of cores. The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number may not be evident. I recently needed some binocular cores for a transformer for a client. After checking all the distributors, I had to buy 500 of them. Minimum quantity. So much for one-off hobbyist projects. The reason why I did not use a MiniCircuits transformer for this client is that the impedance was much less than 50 ohms. This is one area that MiniCircuits really does not address. Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On 11/27/2014 7:07 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there to buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them using commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to wind them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for the particular application. Tim N3QE You need the tiny cores to get the performance of the MiniCircuits transformers. You just can't get the same bandwidth using macro sized "binocular" cores. Now, if you don't need a lot of bandwidth, then what you are saying could make sense. Another issue is stray capacitance. Considerably lower with a tiny core. I have spent many hours characterizing MiniCircuits transformers beyond the data sheet specs, and dissecting them to learn how they do it. They really do have a lot of rocket science in them. In terms of the engineering I am buying (especially in a one-off application) they are ridiculously cheap. And I say that as a fairly knowledgeable transformer designer in my own right. I do keep binocular cores around for higher power transformers, and for "emergencies" when I need a transformer "yesterday". Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Again I refer you to Clifton Labs website and cross-references there to the Fair-Rite part numbers/mixes. Although the marketing largely emphasizes EMI suppression, all the mainline distributors now offer several mixes and core styles that are perfect for RF transformers. Powdered iron, yeah, those are not so easily found at mainline distributors, I end up getting them from kitsandparts.com or Amidon. And to Jim's point... "build your own" MMIC from discrete RF transistors (often different generations of CATV-oriented transistors - you get the advantage that you get tune bias currents etc. for individual need) is quite easy using parts stocked at Mouser etc. They also have these impressive super-beefy broadband CATV distribution/isolation amplifiers. Tim N3QE On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > At least last time I looked, the “easy to find” distributors had great > selections of parts used for switching power supplies and EMI suppression. > When you started to dig for the specialized parts for RF transformers and > tuned filters, the stock was pretty thin to nonexistent. If you move from > ferrite to powdered iron, the search process alway has been more > difficult... > > Bob > > > On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > > > >> The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I > seem > >> to have a few dozen bags of cores. > > > > > > The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent > > selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the > > equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number > > may not be evident. > > > > Clifton labs has excellent webpages of examples and is also a good way to > > find the cores sizes and materials commonly stocked at the mainline > > distributors using the manufacturer's part number (often with cross-ref > to > > Amidon style number as a strong hint!) > > > > Recently some here expressed concern that the mini-circuits part may > > saturate with medium DC currents. Of course if you are doing a SMT > > production run you don't want to use bigger cores than necessary and most > > of the mini-circuits parts tend to be physically very tiny to meet this > > market. But if you wind your own on bigger cores this is a non-issue. > > > > Tim N3QE > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] lightening protection of a GPSDO system
Time-nuts Digest, Vol 124, Issue 119 On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:23:14 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:24:38 + > From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] lightening protection of a GPSDO system / > optical isolated distribution amp > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 27 Nov 2014 03:06, "Bob Camp" wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> You need a good antenna setup to get a good disciplined oscillator. The > bigger question is if you *need* the sort of “better” it gives you. If you > are running a simple TCXO based GPSDO, you will have a number of issues to > deal with compared to an OCXO or Rb based system. If “better” is an > objective, consider the entire system. There are lightning arrestors designed specifically for outside GPS antennas. These arrestors go in the coax cable from antenna to receiver. Typical setup is to put a lightning rod near the antenna to take the main hit, to protect the antenna and arrestor most of the time, to save the expense of replacing antenna and arrestor every time. Joe Gwinn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NMEA Parser
I omitted to specify the source code is in Visual Basic 6.0 Pro. It will not run under Visual Basic .NET or Visual Studio based on .NET. The code may be imported, but some rewrite will be required, at least around the serial comm routines, and probably other. Otherwise, the project does not use any exotic ocx or dll, just the standard stuff that is installed with VB 6.0. Didier KO4BB On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Didier Juges wrote: > The Visual Basic NMEA Parser (with source code) has been posted: > http://www.ko4bb.com/NMEAParser > > It is work in progress, is not and never was intended as a finished > product. I used it to further my understanding of the NMEA protocol as it > is used by GPS receivers, and to troubleshoot a few other NMEA/GPS related > projects I have in the pile. > It has been mostly tested with a few Trimble ACE-III receivers I have here. > > The basic NMEA parsing routines were originally downloaded from > PlanetSourceCode but have been significantly tweaked. > > The program has a Trimble TSIP mode, which eventually evolved into the > Thunderbolt Simulator project, so if you want to play with TSIP packets, > the Thunderbolt Simulator is a much better tool (some of it actually > works...) even though I have not uploaded the source code for the > Thunderbolt Simulator yet, so at least here you have some source code to > play with. > > The TSIP mode in this tool is even less finished than the NMEA mode. You > have been warned... > > One interesting feature (shared with the Thunderbolt Simulator) is the > capability to save and play back log files. The download includes a number > of log files that I downloaded from the Internet or created myself. > > I welcome any constructive comment(s) via direct email. If you make useful > addition or bug fix, I would like to get your updates so that everyone can > benefit. > > Happy Thanksgiving to all. > > Didier KO4BB > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Homebrew frequency counter, need help
A copy of the plots is at: http://leapsecond.com/tmp/lllaaa-1.gif http://leapsecond.com/tmp/lllaaa-2.gif Your project sounds wonderful. The TDC-GP22 has been mentioned only a few times over the years and I keep waiting for someone to post actual results from this chip, or better yet -- schematics, photos, and source code. You counter looks more like a 10 digits/second, not 11. Attached are ADEV/TDEV plots of your 71 10s data points. Do not necessarily assume that 10 s measurements are more precise than 1 s measurements. It depends on the REF and DUT. When you are at the flicker floor of an oscillator additional averaging makes no difference. And if there is drift, additional averaging actually makes the precision worse. One suggestion is not to output discrete gated frequency measurements, but instead output continuous phase difference measurements. That way the host software (for example PC running John's TimeLab program) can manage the data stream, simultaneously delivering phase, frequency, and ADEV plots. /tvb - Original Message - From: "lllaaa" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:08 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Homebrew frequency counter, need help > Hi guys, >I've just get my homebrew counter working. And the resolution seems 10x > better than my RACAL DANA 1992. >This counter is heavily inspired by the idea from Kasper Pedersen. > http://n1.taur.dk/permanent/frequencymeasurement.pdf >STM32F051RB & EMP240T100C5 do the control and counting job. TDC-GP22 as > the interpolator. Linear regression is done by CPU. >There are no fancy analog front for both signal path and refclk path. > I'm using two SN75ALS176 and the schmitt input of CPLD to do the job. >I've noticed that the 10s gate does not get more meaningful > digits(looks worse than 1s gate). So here are the questions: >1) I'm wondering if I could say this is an 11 digits/s counter? >2) How can I improve that? Is it limited by the 485 transceiver? I can > switch to a faster MCU, that gets more measures per second, but I think > that only gets no more than 2 stable bits. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPS Time vs. UTC
Hi If it re-locks the GPS, that suggests they are changing the time at the module level rather than doing the math in the CPU. The 5 minute re-lock is pretty typical of the GPS rebooting. The cell phone guys never use UTC time at the hardware level. All the CDMA cell sites are synchronized to GPS time. Because of this, being able to switch the time base is likely to be considered a bug by people like Lucent. They may have the switch over locked out in multiple ways. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:33 AM, Mitchell Janoff wrote: > > Thanks for the reply. > > I tried all the ports, the only port that allows me to communicate at all > with the unit is the J8 Diagnostic port on Ref 0. I also noticed that when I > send the command to change to UTC time, the units go into FAULT mode and it > takes about 5 minutes to relock the GPS. > > Mitch. > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:13:16 -0600 > From: Bob Camp > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPS Time vs. UTC > Message-ID: <50e05f9e-853a-4782-a41c-ea210ccea...@n1k.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi > > Which port are you putting the commands into? > > The box *may* respond to some things on the Diag port that it does not > respond to on the PPS port. I have not investigated this, but it is a > possibility. > > Bob > >> On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Mitchell Janoff wrote: >> >> I now have my KS-24361 operating and I've successfully communicated via >> RS232 (using the hack described previously) with both SatStat and GPSCon >> using Win7. The time I'm getting out of the unit is the GPS time (+16 >> seconds). I've tried to convert the time to UTC by first changing the mode >> from continuous output to a manual time update(:PTIM:TCOD:CONT 0), and then >> changing the time to UTC from GPS using the :PTIM:UTC 1 command. Neither of >> these commands seem to work with this unit. >> >> Has anyone experienced this and did you come up with a solution? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Mitch. >> >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Happy Thanksgiving...
Margaret and I send our best wishes to each and everyone of you for a Happy Thanksgiving. Be thankful for your family and friends, no matter how nuts they may appear. Burt & Margaret Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi At least last time I looked, the “easy to find” distributors had great selections of parts used for switching power supplies and EMI suppression. When you started to dig for the specialized parts for RF transformers and tuned filters, the stock was pretty thin to nonexistent. If you move from ferrite to powdered iron, the search process alway has been more difficult... Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > >> The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I seem >> to have a few dozen bags of cores. > > > The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent > selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the > equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number > may not be evident. > > Clifton labs has excellent webpages of examples and is also a good way to > find the cores sizes and materials commonly stocked at the mainline > distributors using the manufacturer's part number (often with cross-ref to > Amidon style number as a strong hint!) > > Recently some here expressed concern that the mini-circuits part may > saturate with medium DC currents. Of course if you are doing a SMT > production run you don't want to use bigger cores than necessary and most > of the mini-circuits parts tend to be physically very tiny to meet this > market. But if you wind your own on bigger cores this is a non-issue. > > Tim N3QE > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Hi We are talking about many different parts here and calling them all “transformers”. The parts from an Ethernet line card are broadband devices used primarily for isolation. The 10.7 MHz IF transformers are designed for use in a filter. The first could be used to break a ground loop on a cable. The second could be used to knock out a harmonic or sub-harmonic. Each will do quite poorly trying to do the other one’s job. Bob > On Nov 27, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Perry, > > Just three days ago, I posted about my using transformers from > Ethernet cards. I also summarized the results of some measurements > using the spectrum analyzer. There was only one response, so it seems > that what I posted was widely ignored. > > Dave M - good find on Electronic Goldmine. > > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Dave M wrote: >> Electronic Goldmine has some Pulse Engineering LAN transformers (same as >> those used on many LAN boards) on clearance at $1.00 each. >> http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17078 >> Datasheet is at http://www.datasheet4u.com/download_new.php?id=541958 >> >> Quite cheap, in my opinion. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave M >> >> >> Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: >>> >>> List, >>> I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but >>> have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style >>> Lucent boxes. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you >>> buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple >>> ladder filter? >>> >>> In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* >>> the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old >>> 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I >>> found them onEbay for low prices. >>> >>> Now I don't have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I'd have >>> to build from scratch. >>> >>> Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the >>> new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small >>> distributionamplifier with good isolation? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Perrier >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPS Time vs. UTC
Thanks for the reply. I tried all the ports, the only port that allows me to communicate at all with the unit is the J8 Diagnostic port on Ref 0. I also noticed that when I send the command to change to UTC time, the units go into FAULT mode and it takes about 5 minutes to relock the GPS. Mitch. Message: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:13:16 -0600 From: Bob Camp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPS Time vs. UTC Message-ID: <50e05f9e-853a-4782-a41c-ea210ccea...@n1k.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Which port are you putting the commands into? The box *may* respond to some things on the Diag port that it does not respond to on the PPS port. I have not investigated this, but it is a possibility. Bob > On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Mitchell Janoff wrote: > > I now have my KS-24361 operating and I've successfully communicated via RS232 > (using the hack described previously) with both SatStat and GPSCon using > Win7. The time I'm getting out of the unit is the GPS time (+16 seconds). > I've tried to convert the time to UTC by first changing the mode from > continuous output to a manual time update(:PTIM:TCOD:CONT 0), and then > changing the time to UTC from GPS using the :PTIM:UTC 1 command. Neither of > these commands seem to work with this unit. > > Has anyone experienced this and did you come up with a solution? > > Thanks. > > Mitch. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Hi Just as you can “move” 455 KHz IF transformers down with a little padding, you can do the same thing with 10.7 MHz IF cans. They may or may not tune to 10 MHz. If you get some that don’t tune, it’s just a cap to bump them down. The gotcha to any filter in a distribution system is Q. High Q implies high phase slope or long delay. In the real world things are temperature sensitive. Delta temp -> delta inductance -> delta phase -> bad ADEV. The trick is to get the job done with as low a Q as practical. The next layer to the onion is loading. If the filter is on the output of the amp, it’s phase will change with load. Same issue as temperature, high Q -> big changes -> bad performance. Even with a “class C” multiplier, fixed tuned Q< 10 circuits will do the trick for 5 -> 10 MHz doubling. With more exotic multipliers, even simpler filtering will do the job. If you don’t *need* -200 db harmonics, and 30 db is fine — don’t go nuts with the filters. Bob > On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > List, > > > > I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no > idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. > My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? > > > > In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the > author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN > board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low > prices. > > > > Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to > build from scratch. > > > > Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new > style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with > good isolation? > > > > Regards, > > > > Perrier > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Any suggestions as to which chips, or links to any documentation? Thanks, Jim On 11/27/2014 11:36 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: 3) it is really easy to build a temperature controller using a $2 8-pin uP and a few lines of code. The 8-pin uP will have a few analog inputs and outputs and even pins left over for status LEDs. On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts < time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. Thoughts? On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low prices. Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to build from scratch. Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with good isolation? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Does adjusting ocxo's degrade adev / madev ?
Hi Any time you change the operating point of the sustaining circuit (limiter / amp) in an OCXO, there’s a chance that the drive level changes. For small changes in operating point, (and the absence of perturbations) you rarely will see any impact. For large changes (or tuning onto a perturbation), you can see impact on the ADEV. If it’s a drive level change, it probably will settle out. Bob > On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:04 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: > > I've long had a nagging suspicion that OCXO's that are not adjusted will in > practice have lower ADEV than ones that are tweaked regularly. Several days > ago I noticed that one of my 10811's was performing quite well (I believe > this is the first time any of 10811's have delivered adev / madev numbers in > the 13's) and this was sustained for approx 2 days. After trimming the > frequency and letting it sit for a number of hours I noticed the adev was > notably worse. > > I realize there could be a mechanical issue with the trimmer inside the ocxo > that is causing this or simply touching the ocxo while adjusting it may have > also caused this, but is changing the frequency of an OCXO in of it self > likely to have an affect on ADEV / MADEV after a few hours ? > > Looking at the linear residual plot of the phase difference between the 10811 > and the reference, I see a fairly large difference at first, then a somewhat > smaller change, then a series of smaller changes. But I may be reading to > much into this plot. > > I don't expect an absolute answer to this but I'm curious if anyone else has > seen this. > > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I seem > to have a few dozen bags of cores. The mainline distributors (Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc.) have excellent selection of Fair-Rite and other cores. Admittedly to a neophyte the equivalence of Fair-Rite or Laird part numbers to an Amidon-style number may not be evident. Clifton labs has excellent webpages of examples and is also a good way to find the cores sizes and materials commonly stocked at the mainline distributors using the manufacturer's part number (often with cross-ref to Amidon style number as a strong hint!) Recently some here expressed concern that the mini-circuits part may saturate with medium DC currents. Of course if you are doing a SMT production run you don't want to use bigger cores than necessary and most of the mini-circuits parts tend to be physically very tiny to meet this market. But if you wind your own on bigger cores this is a non-issue. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Perry, Just three days ago, I posted about my using transformers from Ethernet cards. I also summarized the results of some measurements using the spectrum analyzer. There was only one response, so it seems that what I posted was widely ignored. Dave M - good find on Electronic Goldmine. Joe Gray W5JG On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Dave M wrote: > Electronic Goldmine has some Pulse Engineering LAN transformers (same as > those used on many LAN boards) on clearance at $1.00 each. > http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17078 > Datasheet is at http://www.datasheet4u.com/download_new.php?id=541958 > > Quite cheap, in my opinion. > > Cheers, > Dave M > > > Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: >> >> List, >> I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but >> have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style >> Lucent boxes. >> >> Thoughts? >>> >>> >> On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you >> buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple >> ladder filter? >> >> In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* >> the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old >> 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I >> found them onEbay for low prices. >> >> Now I don't have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I'd have >> to build from scratch. >> >> Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the >> new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small >> distributionamplifier with good isolation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Perrier > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
On 11/27/14, 7:07 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there to buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them using commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? Probably depends on the frequency ranges and such. The commercial transformers are very small, and probably have more consistent properties. If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to wind them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for the particular application. Sure.. it's a trade time for money situation. OTOH, most hobby tinkerers are not going to fabricate semiconductor devices like MMICs (although I'm sure there's a [semi-fab-nuts] list out there for folks who have a 3" wafer line in their garage). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
If you want to see how to really do it right, check out this distribution Amp on the TAPR site. https://www.tapr.org/kits_tadd-1.html 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/26/2014 9:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. Thoughts? On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low prices. Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to build from scratch. Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with good isolation? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
I'm not much further along then you but I did find a few things... 1) You can buy/salvage good quality 10.0 MHz transformers form networking equipment designed for 10BaseT Ethernet. These are designed for galvanic isolation and are used in old 10baseT routers and switches. Newer Ethernet works are 100 and 1000 Mhz but the older version was 10 MHz. I have a box of salvaged parts I removed from junked routers. These transformers are in wide DIP packages with 0.1" lead spacing. 2) Cheap 10MHz crystals need to be measured, sorted and matched by hand. And then you want to keep the temperature from moving around to much. Before I owned a GPSDO and a two channel scope I used to think the cheap crystals where all exactly "spot-on" 3) it is really easy to build a temperature controller using a $2 8-pin uP and a few lines of code. The 8-pin uP will have a few analog inputs and outputs and even pins left over for status LEDs. On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts < time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > List, > > > > I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have > no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent > boxes. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy > 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder > filter? > > > > In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the > author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN > board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low > prices. > > > > Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to > build from scratch. > > > > Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new > style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with > good isolation? > > > > Regards, > > > > Perrier > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NMEA Parser
The Visual Basic NMEA Parser (with source code) has been posted: http://www.ko4bb.com/NMEAParser It is work in progress, is not and never was intended as a finished product. I used it to further my understanding of the NMEA protocol as it is used by GPS receivers, and to troubleshoot a few other NMEA/GPS related projects I have in the pile. It has been mostly tested with a few Trimble ACE-III receivers I have here. The basic NMEA parsing routines were originally downloaded from PlanetSourceCode but have been significantly tweaked. The program has a Trimble TSIP mode, which eventually evolved into the Thunderbolt Simulator project, so if you want to play with TSIP packets, the Thunderbolt Simulator is a much better tool (some of it actually works...) even though I have not uploaded the source code for the Thunderbolt Simulator yet, so at least here you have some source code to play with. The TSIP mode in this tool is even less finished than the NMEA mode. You have been warned... One interesting feature (shared with the Thunderbolt Simulator) is the capability to save and play back log files. The download includes a number of log files that I downloaded from the Internet or created myself. I welcome any constructive comment(s) via direct email. If you make useful addition or bug fix, I would like to get your updates so that everyone can benefit. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Didier KO4BB ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
Electronic Goldmine has some Pulse Engineering LAN transformers (same as those used on many LAN boards) on clearance at $1.00 each. http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17078 Datasheet is at http://www.datasheet4u.com/download_new.php?id=541958 Quite cheap, in my opinion. Cheers, Dave M Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. Thoughts? On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low prices. Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to build from scratch. Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with good isolation? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Homebrew frequency counter, need help
Hi guys, I've just get my homebrew counter working. And the resolution seems 10x better than my RACAL DANA 1992. This counter is heavily inspired by the idea from Kasper Pedersen. http://n1.taur.dk/permanent/frequencymeasurement.pdf STM32F051RB & EMP240T100C5 do the control and counting job. TDC-GP22 as the interpolator. Linear regression is done by CPU. There are no fancy analog front for both signal path and refclk path. I'm using two SN75ALS176 and the schmitt input of CPLD to do the job. I've noticed that the 10s gate does not get more meaningful digits(looks worse than 1s gate). So here are the questions: 1) I'm wondering if I could say this is an 11 digits/s counter? 2) How can I improve that? Is it limited by the 485 transceiver? I can switch to a faster MCU, that gets more measures per second, but I think that only gets no more than 2 stable bits. Rb clock as ref, trimble GPSDO (the old bigger one) as the signal to measure: gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.5 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9041 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9041 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9041 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9041 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.5 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.2 MHz gate=1s #=9041 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.4 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9040 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9039 freq=10.3 MHz gate=1s #=9038 freq=10.3 MHz gate=10s #=90132 freq=10.341 MHz gate=10s #=90337 freq=10.334 MHz gate=10s #=90333 freq=10.317 MHz gate=10s #=90324 freq=10.409 MHz gate=10s #=90315 freq=10.353 MHz gate=10s #=90320 freq=10.478 MHz gate=10s #=90321 freq=10.480 MHz gate=10s #=90315 freq=10.530 MHz gate=10s #=90304 freq=10.362 MHz gate=10s #=90372 freq=10.347 MHz gate=10s #=90386 freq=10.404 MHz gate=10s #=90383 freq=10.409 MHz gate=10s #=90368 freq=10.474 MHz gate=10s #=90366 freq=10.435 MHz gate=10s #=90370 freq=10.426 MHz gate=10s #=90365 freq=10.381 MHz gate=10s #=90364 freq=10.541 MHz gate=10s #=90364 freq=10.504 MHz gate=10s #=90363 freq=10.469 MHz gate=10s #=90369 freq=10.088 MHz gate=10s #=90351 freq=10.216 MHz gate=10s #=90355 freq=10.250 MHz gate=10s #=90357 freq=10.309 MHz gate=10s #=90346 freq=10.366 MHz gate=10s #=90344 freq=10.397 MHz gate=10s #=90343 freq=10.350 MHz gate=10s #=90339 freq=10.378 MHz gate=10s #=90336 freq=10.374 MHz gate=10s #=90330 freq=10.457 MHz gate=10s #=90322 freq=10.439 MHz gate=10s #=90314 freq=10.387 MHz gate=10s #=90318 freq=10.319 MHz gate=10s #=90328 freq=10.343 MHz gate=10s #=90313 freq=10.443 MHz gate=10s #=90314 freq=10.157 MHz gate=10s #=90287 freq=10.321 MHz gate=10s #=90377 freq=10.425 MHz gate=10s #=90366 freq=10.403 MHz gate=10s #=90372 freq=10.366 MHz gate=10s #=90371 freq=10.391 MHz gate=10s #=90379 freq=10.359 MHz gate=10s #=90376 freq=10.378 MHz gate=10s #=90364 freq=10.318 MHz gate=10s #=90374 freq=10.288 MHz gate=10s #=90368 freq=10.411 MHz gate=10s #=90364 freq=10.366 MHz gate=10s #=90362 freq=10.377 MHz gate=10s #=90354 freq=10.335 MHz gate=10s #=90359 freq=10.278 MHz gate=10s #=90354 freq=10.317 MHz gate=10s #=90353 fr
[time-nuts] 10 MHz Filters
List, I have seen on the net a 10 MHz filter using 10.7 IFtransformers but have no idea how well they would work for isolation with thenew style Lucent boxes. Thoughts? On Ebay venders are offering 10 MHz crystals for almostnothing if you buy 30. My question wouldthese be good for making some type of simple ladder filter? In his article *Modifying Lucent RFG-M-RB Rubidium FrequencyStandard* the author used a 10MHz filter that was taken from an old 10MbitEthernet LAN board. The part number he used was 20F001N and I found them onEbay for low prices. Now I don’t have any access to any old ethernet LAN boardsso I’d have to build from scratch. Does anyone of these methods have an advantage over theothers on the new style Lucent boxes or in the making of a small distributionamplifier with good isolation? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Does adjusting ocxo's degrade adev / madev ?
I've long had a nagging suspicion that OCXO's that are not adjusted will in practice have lower ADEV than ones that are tweaked regularly. Several days ago I noticed that one of my 10811's was performing quite well (I believe this is the first time any of 10811's have delivered adev / madev numbers in the 13's) and this was sustained for approx 2 days. After trimming the frequency and letting it sit for a number of hours I noticed the adev was notably worse. I realize there could be a mechanical issue with the trimmer inside the ocxo that is causing this or simply touching the ocxo while adjusting it may have also caused this, but is changing the frequency of an OCXO in of it self likely to have an affect on ADEV / MADEV after a few hours ? Looking at the linear residual plot of the phase difference between the 10811 and the reference, I see a fairly large difference at first, then a somewhat smaller change, then a series of smaller changes. But I may be reading to much into this plot. I don't expect an absolute answer to this but I'm curious if anyone else has seen this. Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi I believe I made that point earlier. The main complaint is the difficulty of getting the correct cores. I seem to have a few dozen bags of cores. I still go shopping for more as projects come up Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there to > buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them using > commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? > > If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT > transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a > distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to wind > them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for the > particular application. > > Tim N3QE > >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> What time (note the tie in to be on topic for the list :) will their >> retail location open on Thanksgiving? >> >> Spending quality time on the auction sites can yield some pretty >> substantial discounts on RF transformers. The search process is not simple >> due to the crazy range of part numbers. >> >> Once you have the transformer you get to decide how to handle coax >> grounds. In most cases the solution either creates a bunch of problems or >> it eliminates any benefit of transformer isolation. >> >> Bob >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Jim Lux wrote: >>> >>> Time to stock up on those transformers, mixers, amplifiers >>> >>> "Throughout the month of December, all online orders of any quantity of >> any Mini-Circuits catalog model from our web store on minicircuits.com >> will receive a 10% *discount! >>> " >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] lightening protection of a GPSDO system / optical isolated distribution amp
Hi If you are happy with 1x10^ -9 frequency accuracy, then there are a number of things you can ignore. If you are after < 1x10^-11 frequency accuracy 99.9% of the time you have to do everything right. Different limits apply to different measures of stability. To reduce multi path you need a clear sky view. To keep the timing solution in the GPS happy you need to let it see >80 % of the sats it should see. In this case stuff below 20 degrees does not count towards the total. In both cases the exact numeric impact depends on a bunch of things. It would take a few hundred pages to go into all of it. You ultimately need a site survey to work out the multi path math. In the extreme case the antenna can not see any sats. The math is simple then. Your stability is just that of your oscillator. That gets us right back to Rb's are better than OCXO's. Both are better than a TCXO. Best advice is still the same. Get as good a GPSDO as you can afford. Put the antenna up on the roof. Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 3:24 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2014 03:06, "Bob Camp" wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> You need a good antenna setup to get a good disciplined oscillator. The > bigger question is if you *need* the sort of “better” it gives you. If you > are running a simple TCXO based GPSDO, you will have a number of issues to > deal with compared to an OCXO or Rb based system. If “better” is an > objective, consider the entire system. >> >> Bob > > Bob, > can you explain more about the effect of antenna performance on a GPSDO > system? > > Now you have told me it is important, I would like to know more! My lab > has an East facing window. > > The only way I would use an external antenna is if I had optical isolation. > > I live in an area where the lightening risk is considered low, but having > lost equipment twice, I am probably more concerned than others might be. > > Dave. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
For a hobbyist doing things a few at a time, what advantage is there to buying RF transformers made by Mini-circuits etc., vs winding them using commonly available ferrite cores/binocular cores? If I needed to do a production run of 1000+ boards with tiny SMT transformers, sure, no problem buying them from mini-circuits or a distributor etc. But for hobbyist stuff seems far more flexible to wind them onesy-twosy using not so tiny cores and windings selected for the particular application. Tim N3QE On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > What time (note the tie in to be on topic for the list :) will their > retail location open on Thanksgiving? > > Spending quality time on the auction sites can yield some pretty > substantial discounts on RF transformers. The search process is not simple > due to the crazy range of part numbers. > > Once you have the transformer you get to decide how to handle coax > grounds. In most cases the solution either creates a bunch of problems or > it eliminates any benefit of transformer isolation. > > Bob > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Jim Lux wrote: > > > > Time to stock up on those transformers, mixers, amplifiers > > > > "Throughout the month of December, all online orders of any quantity of > any Mini-Circuits catalog model from our web store on minicircuits.com > will receive a 10% *discount! > > " > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Hi What time (note the tie in to be on topic for the list :) will their retail location open on Thanksgiving? Spending quality time on the auction sites can yield some pretty substantial discounts on RF transformers. The search process is not simple due to the crazy range of part numbers. Once you have the transformer you get to decide how to handle coax grounds. In most cases the solution either creates a bunch of problems or it eliminates any benefit of transformer isolation. Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Jim Lux wrote: > > Time to stock up on those transformers, mixers, amplifiers > > "Throughout the month of December, all online orders of any quantity of any > Mini-Circuits catalog model from our web store on minicircuits.com will > receive a 10% *discount! > " > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
Time to stock up on those transformers, mixers, amplifiers "Throughout the month of December, all online orders of any quantity of any Mini-Circuits catalog model from our web store on minicircuits.com will receive a 10% *discount! " ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] lightening protection of a GPSDO system / optical isolated distribution amp
On 27 Nov 2014 03:06, "Bob Camp" wrote: > > Hi > > You need a good antenna setup to get a good disciplined oscillator. The bigger question is if you *need* the sort of “better” it gives you. If you are running a simple TCXO based GPSDO, you will have a number of issues to deal with compared to an OCXO or Rb based system. If “better” is an objective, consider the entire system. > > Bob Bob, can you explain more about the effect of antenna performance on a GPSDO system? Now you have told me it is important, I would like to know more! My lab has an East facing window. The only way I would use an external antenna is if I had optical isolation. I live in an area where the lightening risk is considered low, but having lost equipment twice, I am probably more concerned than others might be. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
