Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Tom Van Baak]

> I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a
> very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some
> help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just
> the serial adapters.

Cash,

True, it's somewhat off-topic but a lot of us collect data from instruments and 
so the issue of serial ports and USB comes up from time to time. I have run up 
to 40 serial ports on a Windows laptop using a combination of USB 7-port hubs 
and EdgePort 8-1 serial/USB adapters. It can work perfectly. Some personal 
comments:

- Use FTDI serial/USB adapters. They are very solid on Windows. Avoid SI Labs 
and Prolific adapters. My favorites these days come from Sparkfun and Adafruit 
(serial, 3.3/5 volt) and Parallax (serial, true RS232). Avoid the fake-FTDI 
adapters you see on eBay.

- Use Digi (Inside Out Networks) Edgeport serial/USB adapters if you want 4-1 
or 8-1 or even 16-1 serial ports. I've never had trouble with Edgeport 
software. These are higher priced per box but lower on a per-port basis. They 
are available and cheap on eBay, since DA9 (DB9) serial ports have fallen out 
of fashion.

- Both FTDI and Edgeport include excellent configuration utilities. For 
example, you can delete COM ports or change COM port numbers on the fly. Some 
programs won't let you use a large com port number. In a few seconds you can 
redefine a FTDI or Edgeport adapter to be COM2 or COM3, etc.

- By default the FTDI and Edgeport serial/USB adapters will retain their COM 
port number(s), which is handy most of the time. For example, I have an 
Edgeport/8 with #2 written on it. Every time I plug it in, I COM21 to COM28 
show up. Similar ones have labels #3 and #4, etc. So I always have serial ports 
if I need them.

- If you play with serial ports a lot it's nice to know what the port numbers 
are when you plug adapters in and out. Under http://leapsecond.com/tools/ see 
the coms.exe (coms.c) tool which displays and monitors for changes in the list 
of com ports. ^C to exit. 

- The web also has lots of advice on how to clean up unused COM ports on 
Windows. Personally I tend not to bother, because the config utilities allow 
you to change any port you want to use.

- The web has lots of good (and bad) advice to avoid the serial ball mouse 
problem should you ever run into that.

- If you want Windows serial logging and timestamp software contact me off-list.

Thanks,
/tvb

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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[W2HX]

I would avoid vista like the plaque! Windows 7 is much more reliable. I am 
willing to bet your USB problems are because of vista.

 
73 Eugene W2HX
 


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Cash Olsen
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 3:18 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and 
unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to 
serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the 
hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.

I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved with 
Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version but 
Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.

I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a very 
large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some help. I 
don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just the serial 
adapters.

One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm only 
using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I make the 
assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the computer?

--
S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
ARRL Technical Specialist
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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Vlad]

If its really number of USB devices, directly connected to the PC, then 
it could be issue with overload of 5V bus on USB hub. It has certain 
limitation.

As a workaround, you could try to use external USB hub with its own PSU.

--
WBW,

V.P.

On 2015-05-29 15:17, Cash Olsen wrote:
I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in 
and
unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the 
USB to
serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of 
the

hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.

I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial 
adapters.
Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem 
resolved
with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier 
version
but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common 
problem.


I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had 
a
very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find 
some
help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, 
just

the serial adapters.

One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and 
I'm
only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and 
can I
make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting 
the

computer?


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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[paul swed]

Yes you can clean them up its online and its pretty simple not that I
recall what it was. I had the same issue and in device manager essentially
the hanger ons are hidden devices once you tell device manager to show
hidden you will see the issue.
I do not recall if you right click and release or what.
But it was online and a common issue.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Cash Olsen  wrote:

> I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
> unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
> serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
> hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.
>
> I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
> Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved
> with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version
> but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.
>
> I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a
> very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some
> help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just
> the serial adapters.
>
> One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm
> only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I
> make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the
> computer?
>
> --
> S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
> ARRL Technical Specialist
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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Brent Gordon]

Lately, I've been seeing blue screens that I think are caused by my 
serial-USB adapters.  Because I haven't updated by serial drivers since 
before the driver update fiasco a while back, my feeling is that this 
was caused by some other update.


Regarding the COM ports, here is a article on how to see all devices, 
past or present:



Although it is written for WinXP, it also works on Win7.  I assume it 
will work on Vista.  Once you see the old devices you can remove them, 
one at a time.


As for making the assignments static, that only works with some 
adapters.  I think it depends on if an adapter reports a serial number. 
 You can manually change the assignment for a port.

1.  Open Device Manager.
2.  Double-click on the port you want to change.
3.  Select the Port Settings tab.
4.  Click the Advanced... button.
5.  Change the port number.

Windows will complain that the port is already in use.  Ignore the 
warning; just unplug and replug the device into the same USB port.  It 
will now run with the new assignment.


Brent

On 5/29/2015 1:17 PM, Cash Olsen wrote:

I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.

I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved
with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version
but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.

I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a
very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some
help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just
the serial adapters.

One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm
only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I
make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the
computer?


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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I’m not sure I can be of much help. I typically run several dozen serial ports 
on various
machines without much trouble at all. They *all*:

1) Are under XP or Win-7 (no Vista)
2) Run FTDI drivers and nothing else
3) Get the drivers straight from FTDI

My case is so far off from your case that I don’t think it’s doing you any good 
…


Bob

> On May 29, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Cash Olsen  wrote:
> 
> I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
> unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
> serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
> hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.
> 
> I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
> Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved
> with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version
> but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.
> 
> I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a
> very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some
> help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just
> the serial adapters.
> 
> One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm
> only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I
> make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the
> computer?
> 
> -- 
> S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
> ARRL Technical Specialist
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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Attila Kinali]

On Fri, 29 May 2015 13:17:40 -0600
Cash Olsen  wrote:

> I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
> unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
> serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
> hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.


I do not know about Windows Vista, but I have developed several USB
devices using Windows XP as main targed. All serial drivers use the
same code (usbser.sys) as driver, and just reference it in their
respective .ini file. From the time I developed those devices, i can
tell you with great confidence that usbser.sys is the worst piece
of shit i've seen in my entire life. There is no data validation,
no input sanitation or anything the like at all. Any inconsitency
in the data structures that describe the USB device (there are several
of those in even the most simple device) or just a wrongly set bit
will crash Windows XP hard. Hard as in, your system will freeze.
If you are lucky you will get a black screen. No blue screen with
any information will ever appear.

I don't know whether they rewrote the code completely or not. At least
the impression I have is that the Vista usbser.sys is slightly more
stable than the one in XP, but i have not tested it as throughly as I
did with XP. I would still not be surprised if the code is still pretty
bad and fucks up when it seems something uncommon but completely valid.

You might try upgrading usbser.sys to its newest version, but i am
not sure whether that would help or make things worse.

> One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm
> only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I
> make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the
> computer?

This is another very annoying thing. If a COM port was in use when its
underlying device was lost, then you cannot close the device completely
anymore. I have not found a cure for that, other than a reboot. So always
close the application that has uses a specific COM port before you
disconnect it.

If you plug in a device and you get a COM port that is very high up,
you can go into the device manager and re-assing its number (if the
ini file has that feature enabled). You have then to unplug it and
re-plug it for the change to take effect. Please be aware that you
have to plug it in at the exact same port of the exact same hub
(if you use one). Otherwise windows will think it's a different
device and assign it a different port number (or even ask you
to "reinstall" its driver).


If it is possible for you, I would suggest to use a different
operating system if you have to deal with lots of USB serial ports.

Attila Kinali

-- 
< _av500_> phd is easy
< _av500_> getting dsl is hard
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Re: [time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 29.05.2015 um 21:17 schrieb Cash Olsen:

I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.

I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved
with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version
but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.

Some months ago, one manufacturer distributed new drivers via the 
Microsoft channel
that recognized non-original chips and changed the inappropriate 
manufacturer code
in their flash to UNDEFINED. Thus, even going back to the old driver did 
not make the
false chip work again since the original driver felt no longer 
responsible for the fake chip.


It was a marketing desaster and they took it back somehow.
I think it was FTDI, but I'm not sure. I give Windows only control over 
a virtual machine

at most, so I don't remember the outcome.

regards, Gerhard

(now back to trying to control a SR620 from BeagleBoneBlack via USB, 
Prologix and GPIB)

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Re: [time-nuts] Manuals heading for the dumpster

[DaveH]

Have they talked with archive.org?
 
These people have all kinds of scanners and are putting some 
amazing things online.
 
Dave  

> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
> Of Gregory Muir
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 09:01
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Manuals heading for the dumpster
> 
> To all,
> 
> Am not sure if any news of this has been posted in prior 
> times or not but will pass it along just in case.
> 
> Manuals Plus (http://www.manualsplus.com/) will be closing 
> its doors the middle of June.  The proliferation of available 
> PDF documents available plus the increasing number of other 
> sellers on eBay has reduced their business to a point where 
> they cannot afford to remain alive.  As a result, they are 
> going to close up shop.
> 
> No one has stepped in to assume the manual stock that they 
> currently have so it has been decided that when things cease, 
> all of their stock that hasn't sold will hit a large roll-on 
> dumpster and head either for the dump or a recycler.
> 
> They are entertaining offers for manuals at this point.  
> Becky, the main contact at MP is the one to talk to,  She is 
> very amiable to making deals on manuals.  I have been 
> stocking my files with some very unobtainable legacy manuals 
> for great prices far below the ones asked on eBay or from 
> other dealers.
> 
> It's a shame to see such a resource disappear.  But it is 
> even worse to see thousands of legacy manuals get destroyed 
> in the process.  MP has been one of my main sources for many 
> rare manuals from many equipment manufacturers over the years.
> 
> It is realized that the majority of their manual stock 
> pertains to test equipment but there may be that one odd 
> thing you are looking for that they have.  One comment is 
> that their search engine is somewhat primitive.  I produces 
> results from manufacturer names or equipment model numbers 
> only.  Try several variations of model numbers (such as 
> removing suffixes, etc) to see if other manuals will appear.
> 
> Greg
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[bownes]

Typically the pins are two or three lengths. 

The longest pins are ground, the next are power, then signal pins. Quite often 
used for things that are hot swapped. Take a look at a USB cable for example. 





> On May 29, 2015, at 19:01, Chuck Harris  wrote:
> 
> Thees units were made for the phone company, and phone companies
> are big on "hot-swapping" modules.  The shorter pins are shortened
> to make sure that their circuit doesn't make contact until the
> longer pins have made contact.  Don't "fix" them!
> 
> -Chuck Harris
> 
> billriches wrote:
>> Hi Ulli,
>> 
>> I heard some comments that the short jumper cable between the two units
>> would make an intermittent connection.  You will notice that some of the
>> pins in the connector are shorter than the others and hopefully that is the
>> problem.  I don't know if the plugs are wired 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and so forth
>> but you could figure that out and make up another cable and try it.
>> Hopefully your problem will be as simple as a bad cable.  I have had two of
>> those systems running 24/7 for almost a year and have had no problems.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Bill, WA2DVU
>> Cape May
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Re: [time-nuts] Manuals heading for the dumpster

[Didier Juges]

I think the main contributor to the death of their business is that new 
equipment comes with usually worthless manuals, and even for those who have 
somewhat better manuals, the instruments are still not repairable by the 
amateurs.

I realize that free sites (like mine) probably did not help, but the 
handwriting was on the wall a long time ago and it is unfortunate.

Didier KO4BB

PS: I intent to keep my site up as long as I can afford it, and if someone 
comes up with a dumpster's worth of scanned manuals, I will find the disk space 
for it, but unfortunately, I can't afford to buy any of it myself.

On May 29, 2015 11:01:12 AM CDT, Gregory Muir  wrote:
>To all,
>
>Am not sure if any news of this has been posted in prior times or not
>but will pass it along just in case.
>
>Manuals Plus (http://www.manualsplus.com/) will be closing its doors
>the middle of June.  The proliferation of available PDF documents
>available plus the increasing number of other sellers on eBay has
>reduced their business to a point where they cannot afford to remain
>alive.  As a result, they are going to close up shop.
>
>No one has stepped in to assume the manual stock that they currently
>have so it has been decided that when things cease, all of their stock
>that hasn't sold will hit a large roll-on dumpster and head either for
>the dump or a recycler.
>
>They are entertaining offers for manuals at this point.  Becky, the
>main contact at MP is the one to talk to,  She is very amiable to
>making deals on manuals.  I have been stocking my files with some very
>unobtainable legacy manuals for great prices far below the ones asked
>on eBay or from other dealers.
>
>It's a shame to see such a resource disappear.  But it is even worse to
>see thousands of legacy manuals get destroyed in the process.  MP has
>been one of my main sources for many rare manuals from many equipment
>manufacturers over the years.
>
>It is realized that the majority of their manual stock pertains to test
>equipment but there may be that one odd thing you are looking for that
>they have.  One comment is that their search engine is somewhat
>primitive.  I produces results from manufacturer names or equipment
>model numbers only.  Try several variations of model numbers (such as
>removing suffixes, etc) to see if other manuals will appear.
>
>Greg
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-- 
Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr HD 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other 
things.
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Ok, when the interconnect cable goes out, the boxes simply do not boot up or
they boot to some strange pattern of LED’s. I have not seen the 15 pin cable 
impact the number of sat’s. It certainly *could* do so if the serial 
interconnect pin
is messed up on either end. 

I’d try another antenna ….

Bob

> On May 20, 2015, at 6:24 PM, Mod Mix  wrote:
> 
> Wall, again some hours later at least the LED show the normal picture.
> Though, Ulrich's program is still showing no more than two satellites.
> Do I have to be more patient?
> Ulli
> 
> Am 20.05.2015 um 20:59 schrieb Mod Mix:
>> Hi,
>> my KS-24361 REF 1 / REF 0 combo was running nicely for many weeks.
>> To check a newly received REF 0 it was connected instead of the nicely 
>> runnning one.
>> Did almost fine - except: NO GPS stayed solid on for about an hour.
>> At leat, i saw 1 or 2 satellites from time to time.
>> When I put back the original one, it behaves the same: solid NO GPS for 
>> hours .-(
>> Does not see any satellite at all...
>> Interconnect cable was changed...
>> GPS antenna was changed...
>> No success...
>> Any idea how to make it tracking GPS again?
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Ulli
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] MTI 260 Oscillator question.

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The traditional approach was to seal the unit up at the base. You 
then baked it out (possibly at 125C) for some period of time (maybe 24 
to 48 hours). After that you sealed off the magic hole in the package. 

In some cases there was indeed a magic pot under the solder hole that
was used to do a final “tweak” on the oven or the EFC set point. I’d bet that
there are *some* (but not all) 260’s out there with a teak under the hole. The
“no EFC” variant would be a good bet ….

Bob

> On May 29, 2015, at 2:53 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've noticed that there is a soldered area on the top of the module that
> appears to be covering a hole. Has anyone taken one of these apart, and
> if so is there a trim cap or pot under this hole to allow adjustment???
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Corby Dawson
> 
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[time-nuts] How Microsoft cloud services will handle leapseconds...

[Mark Sims]

Sounds like very poorly to me...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/29/windows_azure_second_out_of_sync/   
  
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[Chuck Harris]

Thees units were made for the phone company, and phone companies
are big on "hot-swapping" modules.  The shorter pins are shortened
to make sure that their circuit doesn't make contact until the
longer pins have made contact.  Don't "fix" them!

-Chuck Harris

billriches wrote:

Hi Ulli,

I heard some comments that the short jumper cable between the two units
would make an intermittent connection.  You will notice that some of the
pins in the connector are shorter than the others and hopefully that is the
problem.  I don't know if the plugs are wired 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and so forth
but you could figure that out and make up another cable and try it.
Hopefully your problem will be as simple as a bad cable.  I have had two of
those systems running 24/7 for almost a year and have had no problems.

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May

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Re: [time-nuts] AGC or manual attenuator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

You *could* do other things. Some form of switched attenuator is still the best 
bet.

Bob

> On May 29, 2015, at 10:09 AM, xaos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> In the past there have been several posts about
> amplifier input and AGC. As many have pointed out
> this is always a bad idea since the AGC circuit
> tends to add phase noise, etc.
> 
> So my question today is: Is this still true?
> 
> My old Panoramic spectrum analyzer (yeah, she's a beauty!)
> has a very nice input attenuator which you select
> manually.
> 
> Is this my only option? Digital pots don't usually go above
> 1 MHz, and if they did, are they an option?
> 
> George Hrysanthopoulos, N2FGX
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] AGC or manual attenuator

[paul swed]

Absolutely a good answer. You could mess with lots of things. But the fact
is they are pretty much a mess. You have to linearize and right size etc.
So why mess with a great answer?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:09 AM, xaos  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> In the past there have been several posts about
> amplifier input and AGC. As many have pointed out
> this is always a bad idea since the AGC circuit
> tends to add phase noise, etc.
>
> So my question today is: Is this still true?
>
> My old Panoramic spectrum analyzer (yeah, she's a beauty!)
> has a very nice input attenuator which you select
> manually.
>
> Is this my only option? Digital pots don't usually go above
> 1 MHz, and if they did, are they an option?
>
> George Hrysanthopoulos, N2FGX
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributiuon Amlifier Altinex DA1804NT

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I think that looks about as good as your counter can do. The slope down at 
the start is the resolution of the counter. The slope up on the right is the 
actual stability of 
the oscillator.

Bob

> On May 29, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Vlad  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I've finished the test. Here is the links to charts:
> 
> http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A-AD.png
> http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A-PD.png
> http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A.png
> 
> It looks different, but its not better, I think.
> 
> Regards,
> Vlad
> 
> On 2015-05-28 23:21, Vlad wrote:
>> Bob,
>> You are correct. I am using HP 5386A. And its only HP counter I have.
>> I set Gate time equal to 10sec. May be this gate time is an issue ?
>> The other settings is .1s, and 1s.
>> Meantime, I did switch ref signal source from Trimble TB to
>> Oscilloquarz 8663-SX OCXO and connected MV89A to counter input. 8
>> hours later, I'll see what will be on chart.
>> Regards,
>> Vlad
>> On 2015-05-28 21:50, Bob Camp wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> *IF* I’m understanding you correctly, you are measuring this data
>>> with an HP 5386.
>>> That’s only a 4 ns counter. I agree with Tom that there is something
>>> weird in your setup, but that
>>> still does not help the basic limit of the counter’s resolution. You
>>> will need to be out around 1,000
>>> seconds or more to get to the noise on the OCXO. At any time shorter
>>> than that you are either
>>> measuring the counter’s noise or noise in your setup.
>>> If you have one, a 5335 would be a better counter to use than the 5386.
>>> Bob
 On May 27, 2015, at 10:04 PM, Vlad  wrote:
 Hello,
 Recently, I acquired video distribution amplifier (model Altinex 
 DA1804NT). It says it could handle 350Mhz. I am planing to use it to split 
 10Mhz Ref signal from my OCXO. This OCXO I bought on auction site. It has 
 Oscilloquarz model 8663-SX plus some components which give me 4 outputs - 
 2 sines and two squares. After few days of "warm up" I did measurement of 
 ADV from one of the sine outputs and then measurement of the same sine 
 signal from OCXO, but this time through the Altinex DA. Each test took 8 
 hours. Attached is the results.
 NOTE: on the ALTINEX* charts I forgot to change the label for OCXO. So, 
 its not DATUM. It is Oscilloquarz 8663-SX
 I was using Trimble TB as a ref signal  for HP 5386
 Since I have no  instruments which measuring phase noise, I am 
 interesting, what will be the quick method to measure the phase noise for 
 that DA ?
 --
 WBW,
 V.P.___
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 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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> 
> -- 
> WBW,
> 
> V.P.
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Re: [time-nuts] MTI 260 Oscillator question.

[Dan Rae]

On 5/29/2015 11:53 AM, cdel...@juno.com wrote:

Hi,

I've noticed that there is a soldered area on the top of the module that
appears to be covering a hole. Has anyone taken one of these apart, and
if so is there a trim cap or pot under this hole to allow adjustment???

Corby, it looks more like where they filled it with some inert gas so I 
would think twice about opening it :^)


Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[Mod Mix]

Wall, again some hours later at least the LED show the normal picture.
Though, Ulrich's program is still showing no more than two satellites.
Do I have to be more patient?
Ulli

Am 20.05.2015 um 20:59 schrieb Mod Mix:

Hi,
my KS-24361 REF 1 / REF 0 combo was running nicely for many weeks.
To check a newly received REF 0 it was connected instead of the nicely 
runnning one.

Did almost fine - except: NO GPS stayed solid on for about an hour.
At leat, i saw 1 or 2 satellites from time to time.
When I put back the original one, it behaves the same: solid NO GPS 
for hours .-(

Does not see any satellite at all...
Interconnect cable was changed...
GPS antenna was changed...
No success...
Any idea how to make it tracking GPS again?
Thank you in advance,
Ulli

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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[billriches]

Hi Ulli,

I heard some comments that the short jumper cable between the two units
would make an intermittent connection.  You will notice that some of the
pins in the connector are shorter than the others and hopefully that is the
problem.  I don't know if the plugs are wired 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and so forth
but you could figure that out and make up another cable and try it.
Hopefully your problem will be as simple as a bad cable.  I have had two of
those systems running 24/7 for almost a year and have had no problems.  

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May


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[time-nuts] USB problems and solutions - Some what Off Topic

[Cash Olsen]

I have been plagued with hard crashes of the computer when plugging in and
unplugging USB devices. I have generally determined that some of the USB to
serial devices are the worst offenders. I am also suspicious of some of the
hubs. I wander if even the operating system is partly to blame.

I'm using Windows Vista, and have several different USB to serial adapters.
Most are Silicon Labs and Prolific. I thought I had the problem resolved
with Prolific by over-riding the driver and installing an earlier version
but Windows may have updated the driver, that seems to be a common problem.

I'm coming to time-nuts because I remember that at least one member had a
very large number of adapters on one computer, so I'm hoping to find some
help. I don't generally seem to have trouble with other USB devices, just
the serial adapters.

One further issue, the COM ports are marked in use from 3 to 50+ and I'm
only using at any one time 3 or 4. Can I clean up the assignments and can I
make the assignments static after connect and reconnect or restarting the
computer?

-- 
S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
ARRL Technical Specialist
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[time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS" - again

[Mod Mix]

Hi,
my KS-24361 REF 1 / REF 0 combo was running nicely for many weeks.
To check a newly received REF 0 it was connected instead of the nicely 
runnning one.

Did almost fine - except: NO GPS stayed solid on for about an hour.
At leat, i saw 1 or 2 satellites from time to time.
When I put back the original one, it behaves the same: solid NO GPS for 
hours .-(

Does not see any satellite at all...
Interconnect cable was changed...
GPS antenna was changed...
No success...
Any idea how to make it tracking GPS again?
Thank you in advance,
Ulli

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[time-nuts] Manuals heading for the dumpster

[Gregory Muir]

To all,

Am not sure if any news of this has been posted in prior times or not but will 
pass it along just in case.

Manuals Plus (http://www.manualsplus.com/) will be closing its doors the middle 
of June.  The proliferation of available PDF documents available plus the 
increasing number of other sellers on eBay has reduced their business to a 
point where they cannot afford to remain alive.  As a result, they are going to 
close up shop.

No one has stepped in to assume the manual stock that they currently have so it 
has been decided that when things cease, all of their stock that hasn't sold 
will hit a large roll-on dumpster and head either for the dump or a recycler.

They are entertaining offers for manuals at this point.  Becky, the main 
contact at MP is the one to talk to,  She is very amiable to making deals on 
manuals.  I have been stocking my files with some very unobtainable legacy 
manuals for great prices far below the ones asked on eBay or from other dealers.

It's a shame to see such a resource disappear.  But it is even worse to see 
thousands of legacy manuals get destroyed in the process.  MP has been one of 
my main sources for many rare manuals from many equipment manufacturers over 
the years.

It is realized that the majority of their manual stock pertains to test 
equipment but there may be that one odd thing you are looking for that they 
have.  One comment is that their search engine is somewhat primitive.  I 
produces results from manufacturer names or equipment model numbers only.  Try 
several variations of model numbers (such as removing suffixes, etc) to see if 
other manuals will appear.

Greg
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[time-nuts] AGC or manual attenuator

[xaos]

Hello everyone,

In the past there have been several posts about
amplifier input and AGC. As many have pointed out
this is always a bad idea since the AGC circuit
tends to add phase noise, etc.

So my question today is: Is this still true?

My old Panoramic spectrum analyzer (yeah, she's a beauty!)
has a very nice input attenuator which you select
manually.

Is this my only option? Digital pots don't usually go above
1 MHz, and if they did, are they an option?

George Hrysanthopoulos, N2FGX

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[time-nuts] MTI 260 Oscillator question.

[cdelect]

Hi,

I've noticed that there is a soldered area on the top of the module that
appears to be covering a hole. Has anyone taken one of these apart, and
if so is there a trim cap or pot under this hole to allow adjustment???

Thanks,

Corby Dawson

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Re: [time-nuts] Distributiuon Amlifier Altinex DA1804NT

[Vlad]

Hello,

I've finished the test. Here is the links to charts:

http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A-AD.png
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A-PD.png
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/OCXO-8663ref-MV89A.png

It looks different, but its not better, I think.

Regards,
Vlad

On 2015-05-28 23:21, Vlad wrote:

Bob,

You are correct. I am using HP 5386A. And its only HP counter I have.
I set Gate time equal to 10sec. May be this gate time is an issue ?
The other settings is .1s, and 1s.
Meantime, I did switch ref signal source from Trimble TB to
Oscilloquarz 8663-SX OCXO and connected MV89A to counter input. 8
hours later, I'll see what will be on chart.

Regards,
Vlad

On 2015-05-28 21:50, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

*IF* I’m understanding you correctly, you are measuring this data
with an HP 5386.

That’s only a 4 ns counter. I agree with Tom that there is something
weird in your setup, but that
still does not help the basic limit of the counter’s resolution. You
will need to be out around 1,000
seconds or more to get to the noise on the OCXO. At any time shorter
than that you are either
measuring the counter’s noise or noise in your setup.

If you have one, a 5335 would be a better counter to use than the 
5386.


Bob


On May 27, 2015, at 10:04 PM, Vlad  wrote:


Hello,

Recently, I acquired video distribution amplifier (model Altinex 
DA1804NT). It says it could handle 350Mhz. I am planing to use it to 
split 10Mhz Ref signal from my OCXO. This OCXO I bought on auction 
site. It has Oscilloquarz model 8663-SX plus some components which 
give me 4 outputs - 2 sines and two squares. After few days of "warm 
up" I did measurement of ADV from one of the sine outputs and then 
measurement of the same sine signal from OCXO, but this time through 
the Altinex DA. Each test took 8 hours. Attached is the results.


NOTE: on the ALTINEX* charts I forgot to change the label for OCXO. 
So, its not DATUM. It is Oscilloquarz 8663-SX

I was using Trimble TB as a ref signal  for HP 5386

Since I have no  instruments which measuring phase noise, I am 
interesting, what will be the quick method to measure the phase noise 
for that DA ?



--
WBW,

V.P.___
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--
WBW,

V.P.
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributiuon Amlifier Altinex DA1804NT

[Attila Kinali]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 23:21:31 -0400
Vlad  wrote:


> You are correct. I am using HP 5386A. And its only HP counter I have. I 
> set Gate time equal to 10sec. May be this gate time is an issue ? The 
> other settings is .1s, and 1s.
> Meantime, I did switch ref signal source from Trimble TB to Oscilloquarz 
> 8663-SX OCXO and connected MV89A to counter input. 8 hours later, I'll 
> see what will be on chart.

You might want to have a look the discussion
Subject: is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 15:11:03 +0200

Where i asked how to measure the phase noise of (coincidentaly)
some 8663's. 

One technique to measure the phase noise would be to use your
PC's sound card (or rather a low noise external sound card).
You can find details how to do that at
http://attila.kinali.ch/phase_noise_measurement/
(Again, thanks to Azelio Boriani for the translation)

There have been many discussions on phase noise on this mailinglist,
you should be able to find plenty of input how to improve your setup
in the archvies.

Attila Kinali


-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributiuon Amlifier Altinex DA1804NT

[Bob Camp]

Hi

*IF* I’m understanding you correctly, you are measuring this data with an HP 
5386.

That’s only a 4 ns counter. I agree with Tom that there is something weird in 
your setup, but that
still does not help the basic limit of the counter’s resolution. You will need 
to be out around 1,000 
seconds or more to get to the noise on the OCXO. At any time shorter than that 
you are either
measuring the counter’s noise or noise in your setup.

If you have one, a 5335 would be a better counter to use than the 5386. 

Bob

> On May 27, 2015, at 10:04 PM, Vlad  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Recently, I acquired video distribution amplifier (model Altinex DA1804NT). 
> It says it could handle 350Mhz. I am planing to use it to split 10Mhz Ref 
> signal from my OCXO. This OCXO I bought on auction site. It has Oscilloquarz 
> model 8663-SX plus some components which give me 4 outputs - 2 sines and two 
> squares. After few days of "warm up" I did measurement of ADV from one of the 
> sine outputs and then measurement of the same sine signal from OCXO, but this 
> time through the Altinex DA. Each test took 8 hours. Attached is the results.
> 
> NOTE: on the ALTINEX* charts I forgot to change the label for OCXO. So, its 
> not DATUM. It is Oscilloquarz 8663-SX
> I was using Trimble TB as a ref signal  for HP 5386
> 
> Since I have no  instruments which measuring phase noise, I am interesting, 
> what will be the quick method to measure the phase noise for that DA ?
> 
> 
> -- 
> WBW,
> 
> V.P.___
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributiuon Amlifier Altinex DA1804NT

[Vlad]

Bob,

You are correct. I am using HP 5386A. And its only HP counter I have. I 
set Gate time equal to 10sec. May be this gate time is an issue ? The 
other settings is .1s, and 1s.
Meantime, I did switch ref signal source from Trimble TB to Oscilloquarz 
8663-SX OCXO and connected MV89A to counter input. 8 hours later, I'll 
see what will be on chart.


Regards,
Vlad

On 2015-05-28 21:50, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

*IF* I’m understanding you correctly, you are measuring this data
with an HP 5386.

That’s only a 4 ns counter. I agree with Tom that there is something
weird in your setup, but that
still does not help the basic limit of the counter’s resolution. You
will need to be out around 1,000
seconds or more to get to the noise on the OCXO. At any time shorter
than that you are either
measuring the counter’s noise or noise in your setup.

If you have one, a 5335 would be a better counter to use than the 5386.

Bob


On May 27, 2015, at 10:04 PM, Vlad  wrote:


Hello,

Recently, I acquired video distribution amplifier (model Altinex 
DA1804NT). It says it could handle 350Mhz. I am planing to use it to 
split 10Mhz Ref signal from my OCXO. This OCXO I bought on auction 
site. It has Oscilloquarz model 8663-SX plus some components which 
give me 4 outputs - 2 sines and two squares. After few days of "warm 
up" I did measurement of ADV from one of the sine outputs and then 
measurement of the same sine signal from OCXO, but this time through 
the Altinex DA. Each test took 8 hours. Attached is the results.


NOTE: on the ALTINEX* charts I forgot to change the label for OCXO. 
So, its not DATUM. It is Oscilloquarz 8663-SX

I was using Trimble TB as a ref signal  for HP 5386

Since I have no  instruments which measuring phase noise, I am 
interesting, what will be the quick method to measure the phase noise 
for that DA ?



--
WBW,

V.P.___
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--
WBW,

V.P.
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