Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Hi While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick different strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” with an Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms since then. A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to call volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS receivers. Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you have a LOT of changes. Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the REF-0, with a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high stability / long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high sensitivity GPS to go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: > > Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. > > I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore > receivers. > Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to > use a new > crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the > messages > required to do that. > > The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as > ASCII > characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited > with > explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and > after many > years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. > > The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The > problem > with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels > while > the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is > two > more groups of satellite data. > > I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. > Considering > the low level of interest in this subject, please write to b...@iaxs.net > for > further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please > make a > reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a > 28 volt > 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being > downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other > stuff. > > Bill Hawkins > Bloomington, MN 55438 > > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Camp > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone > > Hi > > As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA > era > (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. > The signal > spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it > worth > playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound > reasonable. > > As with any absolute statement, there are sure to be exceptions > .. > > == > > For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. > The KS > does not care that it always sees the same sats at the same locations > directly > over its own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. > > It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here > and there. > None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore > strings > are something Mr Google knows a lot about. > > If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, > remember that > each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS > fired relative to > things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the > time label wrong > is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical > evidence of > what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. Its far > harder to track down > when only looking at the outside of the device. > > Bob > >> On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed wrote: >> >> Dan exactly my thinking. >> I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. >> Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think > there is >> a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real > oncore >> or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats >> needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all >> easily do a fixed string. >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W wrote: >> >>> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to sa
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Hi Given my history of mentioning this sort of thing on the list, the listing will be gone before this makes it past the poor suffering list server. The REF-0’s still showed up at $25 each or $50 for a pair ( = better net shipping) last time I looked. I agree that even without being able to bring them up as a GPSDO, they are a pretty good pile of parts. Truth in lending — I went ahead and got “a few” more before I posted this…..Why I *need* more is .. umm … errr … indeterminate ... Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Ian Stirling wrote: > > On 08/06/2015 07:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva wrote: > >> Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS, as a >> standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to configure it? > > I have two REF-0 units spare: at $25, the Milliren OCXOs are treasures. > I am configuring them with a soldering iron. > > 73, > Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR > -- > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 vs 00105 OCXO
How good or bad is the 10811 and which one on ebay is a better choice ? I am looking for a very goo 5 MHz crystal oscillator with documentation . Thanks, Ulrich N1UL In a message dated 8/8/2015 7:16:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, so John’s observation was the correct one. The data we are looking at is *not* the performance of the OCXO’s but the strange behavior of the counter at short ADEV Tau’s. Sorry for my bashing your poor 10811. Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:25 PM, tim...@timeok.it wrote: > > Hi all, > > I try to ansver to all you: > > Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? If so, it's looking promising. > The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed to distinguish between these two situations. > > -- john, KE5FX > Miles Design LLC > > r: no, all the measurements are taken using an HP53132A in frequency mode. The difference can be the gate time. Using 1 second the resolution is lower than using 2 Second that permit the max counter resolution. > > Hi > > Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same measurement system and that it > had the same floor under all circumstances…. > > Bob > > r: all the measurements are under the same conditions except for the gate time of the counter. > > Hi Luciano, > > Can you give me the link to your ADEV posting image about 10811 vs 105 oscillators? I had it and now can't seem to find it. I wanted to look at your plots as I read John Miles' comments. Many thanks. > > I have two very high performing HP10811-60109 OCXO units which I got from Corby. > > Many thanks. > > Jim Robbins > N1JR > > r: Jim, I will load soon some files on my site. The 105B I have is a fantastic exception, unfortunately it have a defect, may be a bad solder inside cause randomly a phase jump and return to the original phase trend, so all The long term ADEV are distorted by this problem I have to fix. > > Tom VB, i will do all the cross measurements on 10811, 00105 and rubidium I have and i will upload they but I need time to do this. > Unfortunately I have only the HP53132A as TIC and my best reference are four HP5065A. I normally use the counter function because the TI function on 1 PPS have 100 time less resolution. > Will be interesting doing also the Phase noise tests. I will do it. > please see: http://www.timeok.it/files/time_and_frequency_house_standard_201r.pdf > > Luciano > www.timeok.it > > > > > > On Sat 08/08/15 02:23 , Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same >> measurement system and that it >> had the same floor under all circumstances…. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:21 PM, John Miles wrote: >>> Hi If that data is correct, then the 10811 you have is defective. Bob >>> >>> Well... some of the data is reasonable for a scenario where a counter is >> being used to measure OCXOs. >>> >>> Looking at the ADEV plot, I'd say the blue trace (HP105B vs 5065A) is >> the most questionable one if it came from a standalone TIC or frequency >> counter, because 7E-12 @ t=1s isn't achievable with most counters under >> most circumstances. A Wavecrest box can measure at that level if it's set >> up _perfectly_ to take bursts of 100+ wrap-free averages within a small >> fraction of the t0 interval. It might also be doable with an HP 5370A/B >> under similar conditions, but I'd have less confidence that the averaging >> isn't distorting the measurement. So while It looks like a valid >> measurement of an OCXO with some minor crosstalk or other external >> interference, that may just be a coincidence. >>> >>> Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? >> If so, it's looking promising. >>> >>> The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for >> measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is >> optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly >> like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise >> is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the >> 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV >> uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed >> to distinguish between these two situations. >>>
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
> the hard reset took me about 48 hours. That sounds like it is doing a survey with a poor antenna location. (or too long a cable) The survey mode usually requires a better than minimum collection of satellites. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
Hi A properly functioning TBolt with a good cable and antenna and view will take < 12 hours from a factory reset to full function. An OCXO that has been off for a while (months) will take days to stabilize to a reasonable level. It will not impact the survey process, but you will see the DAC going like crazy. Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 2:26 PM, Dave Mallery wrote: > > hi > > the hard reset took me about 48 hours. > > 73 > > dave > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > >> Is it possible I bricked the unit by doing the factory reset? >> >> If so can I update the firmware somehow to get back to where I was? >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> KD4PBJ >> >> >> >> — >> Sent from Mailbox >> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, >> tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. >>> So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question >> marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but >> after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. >>> So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls >> the Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using >> the space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running >> Lady Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any >> satellites. >>> I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if >> there is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to >> re-enable the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. >>> I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. >>> Chris >>> KD4PBJ >>> — >>> Sent from Mailbox >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: Chris: If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you >> would have known because it would have said conducting survey or something >> like that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use >> the following keystrokes in LH S and then P -=Bryan=- > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 > From: kd4...@gmail.com > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > > Hi Bryan, > > > > > I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? > > > > > Chris > > > > — > Sent from Mailbox > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: > >> Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate >> Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset to >> erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. >> -=Bryan=- >>> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 >>> From: kd4...@gmail.com >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I >> have a few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I >> have downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right with >> Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc II. I hate >> to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much attention to >> Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. Please forgive me >> if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but I'm sort of new to being >> a time nut. >>> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One >> open frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting >> it to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps from >> Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I measured >> the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. >>> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 >> satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of my >> house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view of the >> sky here on top of a mountain in Tennessee. >>> >>> >>> Here's what I am noticing: >>> To start with I simply turned on the Thunderbolt on Saturday >> morning without doing a warm or cold reset. Within a few minutes, I was >> seeing six or seven satellites, with the SV boxes lit up green with various >> numbers which I assume are satellite ID numbers. When I woke up Sunday I >> was down to seeing only two satellites. The numbers listed were different >> than the ones I saw before I went to bed Saturday. But when I unplugged >> the AC power from the Thunderbolt and plugged it back in, I was back to six >> satellites. >>> I had thought that the GPS satellites I am able to see from my >> location are fixed 24/7. Do
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
In LH what is your setting for AMU and elevation, they could inadvertently be set so high you are not seeing any satellites (depending where you live). I have to set the elevation down to 15 degrees and a AMU of 3.0 -=Bryan=- > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 13:14:17 -0700 > From: kd4...@gmail.com > To: time-nuts@febo.com > CC: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, > tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. > > So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question > marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but > after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. > > So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls the > Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using the > space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running Lady > Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any satellites. > > I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if there > is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to re-enable > the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. > > I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. > > > > > Chris > > KD4PBJ > > > > — > Sent from Mailbox > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: > > > Chris: > > If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you > > would have known because it would have said conducting survey or something > > like that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use > > the following keystrokes in LH > > S and then P > > -=Bryan=- > >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 > >> From: kd4...@gmail.com > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > >> > >> Hi Bryan, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> — > >> Sent from Mailbox > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: > >> > >> > Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate > >> > Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset > >> > to erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. > >> > -=Bryan=- > >> >> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 > >> >> From: kd4...@gmail.com > >> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> >> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > >> >> > >> >> Hi, > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I have a > >> >> few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I > >> >> have downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right > >> >> with Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc > >> >> II. I hate to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much > >> >> attention to Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. > >> >> Please forgive me if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but > >> >> I'm sort of new to being a time nut. > >> >> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One open > >> >> frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting > >> >> it to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps > >> >> from Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I > >> >> measured the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. > >> >> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 > >> >> satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of > >> >> my house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view > >> >> of the sky here on top of a mountain in Tennessee. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Here's what I am noticing: > >> >> To start with I simply turned on the Thunderbolt on Saturday morning > >> >> without doing a warm or cold reset. Within a few minutes, I was seeing > >> >> six or seven satellites, with the SV boxes lit up green with various > >> >> numbers which I assume are satellite ID numbers. When I woke up Sunday > >> >> I was down to seeing only two satellites. The numbers listed were > >> >> different than the ones I saw before I went to bed Saturday. But when > >> >> I unplugged the AC power from the Thunderbolt and plugged it back in, I > >> >> was back to six satellites. > >> >> I had thought that the GPS satellites I am able to see from my > >> >> location are fixed 24/7. Do they move and different satellites come > >> >> into view with rotation of the earth? > >> >> I did a warm reset when I got up at 4:45 this morning and when I got > >> >> home, four satellites were still green on Tboltmon. About an hour
Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 vs 00105 OCXO
Hi Ok, so John’s observation was the correct one. The data we are looking at is *not* the performance of the OCXO’s but the strange behavior of the counter at short ADEV Tau’s. Sorry for my bashing your poor 10811. Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:25 PM, tim...@timeok.it wrote: > > Hi all, > > I try to ansver to all you: > > Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? If so, > it's looking promising. > The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for > measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is > optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly like > I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise is due > entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the 10811's > typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV > uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed to > distinguish between these two situations. > > -- john, KE5FX > Miles Design LLC > > r: no, all the measurements are taken using an HP53132A in frequency mode. > The difference can be the gate time. Using 1 second the resolution is lower > than using 2 Second that permit the max counter resolution. > > Hi > > Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same > measurement system and that it > had the same floor under all circumstances…. > > Bob > > r: all the measurements are under the same conditions except for the gate > time of the counter. > > Hi Luciano, > > Can you give me the link to your ADEV posting image about 10811 vs 105 > oscillators? I had it and now can't seem to find it. I wanted to look at > your plots as I read John Miles' comments. Many thanks. > > I have two very high performing HP10811-60109 OCXO units which I got from > Corby. > > Many thanks. > > Jim Robbins > N1JR > > r: Jim, I will load soon some files on my site. The 105B I have is a > fantastic exception, unfortunately it have a defect, may be a bad solder > inside cause randomly a phase jump and return to the original phase trend, so > all The long term ADEV are distorted by this problem I have to fix. > > Tom VB, i will do all the cross measurements on 10811, 00105 and rubidium I > have and i will upload they but I need time to do this. > Unfortunately I have only the HP53132A as TIC and my best reference are four > HP5065A. I normally use the counter function because the TI function on 1 PPS > have 100 time less resolution. > Will be interesting doing also the Phase noise tests. I will do it. > please see: > http://www.timeok.it/files/time_and_frequency_house_standard_201r.pdf > > Luciano > www.timeok.it > > > > > > On Sat 08/08/15 02:23 , Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same >> measurement system and that it >> had the same floor under all circumstances…. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:21 PM, John Miles wrote: >>> Hi If that data is correct, then the 10811 you have is defective. Bob >>> >>> Well... some of the data is reasonable for a scenario where a counter is >> being used to measure OCXOs. >>> >>> Looking at the ADEV plot, I'd say the blue trace (HP105B vs 5065A) is >> the most questionable one if it came from a standalone TIC or frequency >> counter, because 7E-12 @ t=1s isn't achievable with most counters under >> most circumstances. A Wavecrest box can measure at that level if it's set >> up _perfectly_ to take bursts of 100+ wrap-free averages within a small >> fraction of the t0 interval. It might also be doable with an HP 5370A/B >> under similar conditions, but I'd have less confidence that the averaging >> isn't distorting the measurement. So while It looks like a valid >> measurement of an OCXO with some minor crosstalk or other external >> interference, that may just be a coincidence. >>> >>> Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? >> If so, it's looking promising. >>> >>> The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for >> measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is >> optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly >> like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise >> is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the >> 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV >> uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed >> to distinguish between these two situations. >>> >>> -- john, KE5FX >>> Miles Design LLC >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [1] >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore receivers. Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to use a new crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the messages required to do that. The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as ASCII characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited with explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and after many years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The problem with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels while the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is two more groups of satellite data. I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. Considering the low level of interest in this subject, please write to b...@iaxs.net for further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please make a reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a 28 volt 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other stuff. Bill Hawkins Bloomington, MN 55438 -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it worth playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound reasonable. As with any absolute statement, there are sure to be exceptions .. == For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. The KS does not care that it always sees the same sats at the same locations directly over its own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here and there. None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore strings are something Mr Google knows a lot about. If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, remember that each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS fired relative to things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the time label wrong is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical evidence of what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. Its far harder to track down when only looking at the outside of the device. Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed wrote: > > Dan exactly my thinking. > I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. > Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think there is > a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real oncore > or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats > needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all > easily do a fixed string. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W wrote: > >> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, and >> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code can be >> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using a ~$1 >> chip. >> >> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should still be >> quite easy to do. >> >> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a Jupiter-T >> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very nicely >> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's notes and >> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed wrote: >>> >>> Looking forward to the notes. >>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that >>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after >> that >>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with the >>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low end >> ones >>> will do that stunt very easily. >>> That would be pretty sweet. >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a few days to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. What you will need: 1) A working REF-0 2) A PIC or o
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
hi the hard reset took me about 48 hours. 73 dave On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > Is it possible I bricked the unit by doing the factory reset? > > If so can I update the firmware somehow to get back to where I was? > > Thank you. > > > > > Chris > > KD4PBJ > > > > — > Sent from Mailbox > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, > tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. > > So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question > marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but > after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. > > So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls > the Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using > the space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running > Lady Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any > satellites. > > I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if > there is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to > re-enable the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. > > I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. > > Chris > > KD4PBJ > > — > > Sent from Mailbox > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: > >> Chris: > >> If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you > would have known because it would have said conducting survey or something > like that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use > the following keystrokes in LH > >> S and then P > >> -=Bryan=- > >>> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 > >>> From: kd4...@gmail.com > >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > >>> > >>> Hi Bryan, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> — > >>> Sent from Mailbox > >>> > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: > >>> > >>> > Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate > Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset to > erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. > >>> > -=Bryan=- > >>> >> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 > >>> >> From: kd4...@gmail.com > >>> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>> >> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon > >>> >> > >>> >> Hi, > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I > have a few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I > have downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right with > Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc II. I hate > to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much attention to > Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. Please forgive me > if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but I'm sort of new to being > a time nut. > >>> >> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One > open frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting > it to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps from > Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I measured > the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. > >>> >> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 > satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of my > house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view of the > sky here on top of a mountain in Tennessee. > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> Here's what I am noticing: > >>> >> To start with I simply turned on the Thunderbolt on Saturday > morning without doing a warm or cold reset. Within a few minutes, I was > seeing six or seven satellites, with the SV boxes lit up green with various > numbers which I assume are satellite ID numbers. When I woke up Sunday I > was down to seeing only two satellites. The numbers listed were different > than the ones I saw before I went to bed Saturday. But when I unplugged > the AC power from the Thunderbolt and plugged it back in, I was back to six > satellites. > >>> >> I had thought that the GPS satellites I am able to see from my > location are fixed 24/7. Do they move and different satellites come into > view with rotation of the earth? > >>> >> I did a warm reset when I got up at 4:45 this morning and when I > got home, four satellites were still green on Tboltmon. About an hour ago I > went ahead and did a cold reset. > >>> >> I now have 6 satellites where the SV is green, and one with a > yellow SV with a value of 7.0. > >>> >> All critical alarms are green, and all minor alarms are green > except position ques
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
On 2015-08-07 14:43, Donald wrote: On 8/7/2015 8:13 AM, Brian Inglis wrote: Given a $10 60kHz receiver, This is the problem. I can not find $10 receivers any more. I can find $15-$20 receivers (from the UK), add shipping and it minimum $20+. Even the older chips still work with the new format, its just finding them, cheaply. US sources probably have low demand - so 10 euro/pound now - possibly as much for shipping - Scott Newell's post gives sites - found these search filters show the items of interest: http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=wwvb http://www.hkw-shop.de/index.php?cl=search&searchparam=60khz - see what S&H come to. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
Don't know about DE to USA shipping, but the bare modules are available for around or sub 10€ depending on quantity. http://www.hkw-shop.de/Empfangstechnik-AM/Empfangs-Module/ /Björn Originalmeddelande Från: Donald Datum:2015-08-07 22:43 (GMT+01:00) Till: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Rubrik: Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info On 8/7/2015 8:13 AM, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > Given a $10 60kHz receiver, This is the problem. I can not find $10 receivers any more. I can find $15-$20 receivers (from the UK), add shipping and it minimum $20+. Even the older chips still work with the new format, its just finding them, cheaply. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Hi It’s a good bet that the REF-1 is set up to allow a hot swap of the REF-0 unit. In a cell site, you would not want a working REF-1 to go down when you replaced a blown REF-0. You would *think* that the same logic applies to a REF-1 booting up initially. For what ever reason, it does not apply. No I did *not* write that firmware :) I also have never seen the original spec for these boxes. There may be a perfectly logical reason they boot that way. Why does this matter? Booting a REF-0 cold is likely a bit different than letting the REF-1 bring it up. The control lines likely need poking in a “ready goes low first” followed by the other lines later sort of order. It is indeed the once per 5 seconds stuff that I *suspect* are not needed except to fill in the information in the master display screen. The once a second message is very much needed for the unit to keep doing it’s thing. Actually that’s not exactly correct. The unit cruises along for a bit with no messages before it goes into holdover. I have never tried pushing things to figure out if that’s a useful “feature” or not. Bob > On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:07 AM, D W wrote: > > Bob, thanks for the detailed notes. > > This morning I fired up a REF0/1 pair and let it lock normally. Then I > disconnected the magic interface cable. Strangely the REF1 doesn't seem to > care in the slightest that the cable is pulled, likely because it is in > standby. The REF0 certainly does care though and gives the expected lights. I > was then able to manually wire the necessary interface pins as described by > Bob, and I got it operating normally again. With that test done I'll now try > it from a cold startup. > > I also captured some serial strings from the REF1, looks like the required > messages go once a second with the full set of messages being transmitted > every five seconds. > > I plan to use an AVR as I have plenty on hand. Should be fairly easy. I think > I'll ignore the sawtooth correction for now and just null out the GPS data > for a true dummy burst. Hopefully the REF0 likes that. After that's working > I'll try to populate sawtooth correction from a ublox to potentially improve > performance. > > Thanks > > Dan > >> On Aug 7, 2015, at 9:48 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Here’s a quick and dirty approach to getting a Z3812A, KS-24361 L101, >> RFTG-u, Ref-0 box >> up and running on it’s own. >> >> == >> >> First P1 the +24VDC input. It’s a male 9 pin connector. The pins are all >> labeled on the connector. >> The numbers are small, but they are there. They are also labeled on every >> example of the mating >> connector I have ever seen. >> >> Pin 1gets the positive lead from the supply >> Pin 2 gets the negative (return) lead from the supply. >> >> The rated supply range is 18 to 36V. I would not go below 19V based on >> previous experience >> with these bricks. Current at 28V will start out around 1.3A. >> >> = >> >> Next up is the RS-422/1PPS port J6. Again this is a 9 pin connector with all >> of the pins labeled >> on the connector. Since it’s a female connector, the pin order is not the >> same as on a male >> connector when you are looking at the face of the connector. The pin >> *locations* are the same, >> they mate face to face. >> >> Pins 1 and 6form the PPS output pair. Pin 1 is +. >> Pins 4 and 8form the RX data (data going into the box and out of >> the computer) pair. Pin 4 is +. >> Pins 5 and 9form the TX data pair. Pin 5 is plus. >> Pin 3is ground >> >> The J8-diagnostic port is identical to J6 except it does not have the 1 pps >> output. >> >> All data on these two ports is at RS-422 signaling levels. They are not the >> same as RS-232. You >> should use a converter with these levels. When connecting up things remember >> that with a >> serial connection the wire has a transmitter on one end and a receiver on >> the other end. >> >> == >> >> Data format is 9600 baud, 8 data bits, no parity, one stop bit. This is >> often called 8N1. If you power >> up the box and type *IDN? It should come back and tell you what sort of box >> it is. This same approach >> works for checking serial connections to a lot of HP gear. It’s standard >> SCPI stuff. The other handy >> command is :SYST:STAT?. It will show you a nice screen full of information >> about what the device is doing. >> >> If you power the box up at this point, you can talk to it via serial. The >> LED’s on the right side will come >> on and tell you that there are various things wrong: >> >> NO GPS = the box has not seen a data string from a Motorola Oncore GPS >> in a a while >> FAULT = the magic 15 pin cable is not plugged in >> STBY = the box is not the master unit for the cell site >> ON = we have po
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
Hi A factory reset will not brick the unit. Either: 1) Your TBolt is blown 2) The cable has an issue 3) The antenna has an issue. For troubleshooting this sort of thing, multiples of each are a handy thing to have. Baring that: 0) Put a DVM on the coax and see if you have bias to the antenna 1) Hook up a TDR to the cable and ring it out both with a load and a short on the end. 2) Put the antenna on a *very good* spectrum analyzer and look at what is coming out. 3) Grab a signal generator that will simulate a GPS constellation and drive the TBolt with that. Since nobody (other than Magnus) ever has the sort of gear for 1-3, and it’s all pricey stuff the simple answer is: 1) The antenna is probably the cheapest part of the setup. I’d swap it out first. 2) The cable is cheap but a pain to run, is it #2 or #3. 3) Hook up another timing receiver to the cable. There are lots of them out there in the $100 to $150 range. TBolts do die. My experience is that roughly 1 or 2 in 50 show up with a fatal issue. Another 1 or 2 show up with a (correctable) minor problem. I have had one drop dead after running for a while. Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > > Is it possible I bricked the unit by doing the factory reset? > > If so can I update the firmware somehow to get back to where I was? > > Thank you. > > > > > Chris > > KD4PBJ > > > > — > Sent from Mailbox > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, >> tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. >> So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question >> marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but >> after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. >> So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls the >> Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using the >> space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running Lady >> Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any satellites. >> I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if >> there is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to >> re-enable the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. >> I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. >> Chris >> KD4PBJ >> — >> Sent from Mailbox >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: >>> Chris: >>> If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you >>> would have known because it would have said conducting survey or something >>> like that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use >>> the following keystrokes in LH >>> S and then P >>> -=Bryan=- Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 From: kd4...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon Hi Bryan, I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? Chris — Sent from Mailbox On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: > Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate > Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset to > erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. > -=Bryan=- >> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 >> From: kd4...@gmail.com >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >> >> Hi, >> >> >> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I have a >> few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I have >> downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right with >> Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc II. I >> hate to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much attention >> to Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. Please >> forgive me if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but I'm sort >> of new to being a time nut. >> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One open >> frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting it >> to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps from >> Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I >> measured the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. >> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 >> satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of >> my house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view >> of the sky here on top
Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 vs 00105 OCXO
Hi all, I try to ansver to all you: Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? If so, it's looking promising. The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed to distinguish between these two situations. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC r: no, all the measurements are taken using an HP53132A in frequency mode. The difference can be the gate time. Using 1 second the resolution is lower than using 2 Second that permit the max counter resolution. Hi Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same measurement system and that it had the same floor under all circumstances…. Bob r: all the measurements are under the same conditions except for the gate time of the counter. Hi Luciano, Can you give me the link to your ADEV posting image about 10811 vs 105 oscillators? I had it and now can't seem to find it. I wanted to look at your plots as I read John Miles' comments. Many thanks. I have two very high performing HP10811-60109 OCXO units which I got from Corby. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR r: Jim, I will load soon some files on my site. The 105B I have is a fantastic exception, unfortunately it have a defect, may be a bad solder inside cause randomly a phase jump and return to the original phase trend, so all The long term ADEV are distorted by this problem I have to fix. Tom VB, i will do all the cross measurements on 10811, 00105 and rubidium I have and i will upload they but I need time to do this. Unfortunately I have only the HP53132A as TIC and my best reference are four HP5065A. I normally use the counter function because the TI function on 1 PPS have 100 time less resolution. Will be interesting doing also the Phase noise tests. I will do it. please see: http://www.timeok.it/files/time_and_frequency_house_standard_201r.pdf Luciano www.timeok.it On Sat 08/08/15 02:23 , Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the same > measurement system and that it > had the same floor under all circumstances…. > > Bob > > > On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:21 PM, John Miles wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> If that data is correct, then the 10811 you have is defective. > >> Bob > > > > Well... some of the data is reasonable for a scenario where a counter is > being used to measure OCXOs. > > > > Looking at the ADEV plot, I'd say the blue trace (HP105B vs 5065A) is > the most questionable one if it came from a standalone TIC or frequency > counter, because 7E-12 @ t=1s isn't achievable with most counters under > most circumstances. A Wavecrest box can measure at that level if it's set > up _perfectly_ to take bursts of 100+ wrap-free averages within a small > fraction of the t0 interval. It might also be doable with an HP 5370A/B > under similar conditions, but I'd have less confidence that the averaging > isn't distorting the measurement. So while It looks like a valid > measurement of an OCXO with some minor crosstalk or other external > interference, that may just be a coincidence. > > > > Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project? > If so, it's looking promising. > > > > The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for > measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is > optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly > like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise > is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the > 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV > uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed > to distinguish between these two situations. > > > > -- john, KE5FX > > Miles Design LLC > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [1] > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [2] > and follow the instructions there. > > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://webmail.timeok.it/parse.php?redirect=https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ma > ilman/listinfo/time-nuts[2] > http://webmail.timeok.it/parse.php?redirect=https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ma > ilman/listinfo/time-nuts > Message sent v
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
On 08/06/2015 07:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva wrote: > Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS, as a > standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to configure it? I have two REF-0 units spare: at $25, the Milliren OCXOs are treasures. I am configuring them with a soldering iron. 73, Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] yet another GPSDO
Hi That sounds like a close cousin of the Z3805 Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Arthur Dent wrote: > > I picked up yet another version of a GPSDO on Ebay the other > day. I thought that I'd mention this because sometimes when > one unit shows up there are a lot more that will be listed > for sale later, like with the many Lucent RFTG units that > are currently being sold on Ebay. > > This one is a Symmetricom CGBA with absolutely no info other > than the photos in the listing. The board is about 9"x13" and > has date codes from 2003. It has a Symmetricom 5Mhz OCXO that > feeds a doubler with L/C filtering and a 10Mhz crystal to > further filter the 10Mhz and give a nice clean sine wave > feeding a 27 ohm termination resistor. Then the signal goes > to 3 EL2257 dual gated opamps That seem to make the signal > look much worse so there may have been more than one design > engineer on this project. ;-) > > I traced out 2 lines for power, each one goes thru its own > fuse to a diode bridge so it doesn't care about polarity. > From the bridge the power goes to several discreet onboard > switchers that give +12, +12 OCXO, -12, +5, and +3.3VDC. I > found that the minimum voltage to make the board operate was > 22-28VDC so I'm running it on 36VDC. The current draw is 0.5A > cold to 0.25A with the OXCO warmed up. > > The GPS is made by Furumo and has what looks like an HP part > number 0960-1060(HP31) and has +5VDC for an active antenna on > the antenna connector. There are unused pads on the main board > for SMA size connectors that are marked 10M, PP2S, 4.096M, 100Hz, > 30.72M, 40.96S, and 8K. Not all of these are active and the > 3 dual opamps are not 'on' either so some of the pins in the > connectors on the back of the assembly may do some controlling > of signals or these may be options not implemented on this board. > > When powered up it goes through a light flashing sequence then > the GPS LED goes flashing green when it sees the satellites, then > solid green when it locks, and the ACT LED turns from flashing red > to flashing green. Using my modified Tbolt to test the unit shows > it stays within +/-200PPT for about the first 2 hours then settles > down. > > There is an RJ-45 connector on the front plus there is a 15 pin > 'D' connector behind the panel that may have been for some > testing purpose because it can't be accessed from the front. > At this time I'm just happy to see how well it works and later > I'll see if I can communicate with it somehow. > > -Arthur > > http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/CGBA_zpsd4rricto.jpg > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it worth playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound reasonable. As with any “absolute” statement, there are sure to be exceptions ….. == For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. The KS does not care that it always sees the same sat’s at the same locations directly over it’s own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here and there. None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore strings are something Mr Google knows a lot about. If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, remember that each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS fired relative to things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the time label wrong is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical evidence of what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. It’s far harder to track down when only looking at the “outside” of the device. Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed wrote: > > Dan exactly my thinking. > I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. > Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think there is > a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real oncore > or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats > needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all > easily do a fixed string. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W wrote: > >> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, and >> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code can be >> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using a ~$1 >> chip. >> >> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should still be >> quite easy to do. >> >> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a Jupiter-T >> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very nicely >> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's notes and >> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed wrote: >>> >>> Looking forward to the notes. >>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that >>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after >> that >>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with the >>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low end >> ones >>> will do that stunt very easily. >>> That would be pretty sweet. >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a few days to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. What you will need: 1) A working REF-0 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0 Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time it’s booted, there is no >> real advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix. More to follow. Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham wrote: > > Bob, > > I would like that information too please and thank you. > > I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second REF-0 that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet to >> figure out what is needed. > > cheers, Graham ve3gtc > > >> On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position locked in and spitting out the right strings. >> That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply grabs the data off of the string >> as it comes by. >> >> I’ll see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off list. It’s buried around here somewhere. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < time-n...@tardis.net.br> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> I have some Motorola Oncore available. >>> >>> Can you detail this "fairly simple manipulation of the signal lines"? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Edésio >>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: Hi People got a bit ???excited??
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Bob, thanks for the detailed notes. This morning I fired up a REF0/1 pair and let it lock normally. Then I disconnected the magic interface cable. Strangely the REF1 doesn't seem to care in the slightest that the cable is pulled, likely because it is in standby. The REF0 certainly does care though and gives the expected lights. I was then able to manually wire the necessary interface pins as described by Bob, and I got it operating normally again. With that test done I'll now try it from a cold startup. I also captured some serial strings from the REF1, looks like the required messages go once a second with the full set of messages being transmitted every five seconds. I plan to use an AVR as I have plenty on hand. Should be fairly easy. I think I'll ignore the sawtooth correction for now and just null out the GPS data for a true dummy burst. Hopefully the REF0 likes that. After that's working I'll try to populate sawtooth correction from a ublox to potentially improve performance. Thanks Dan > On Aug 7, 2015, at 9:48 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > Here’s a quick and dirty approach to getting a Z3812A, KS-24361 L101, RFTG-u, > Ref-0 box > up and running on it’s own. > > == > > First P1 the +24VDC input. It’s a male 9 pin connector. The pins are all > labeled on the connector. > The numbers are small, but they are there. They are also labeled on every > example of the mating > connector I have ever seen. > >Pin 1gets the positive lead from the supply >Pin 2 gets the negative (return) lead from the supply. > > The rated supply range is 18 to 36V. I would not go below 19V based on > previous experience > with these bricks. Current at 28V will start out around 1.3A. > > = > > Next up is the RS-422/1PPS port J6. Again this is a 9 pin connector with all > of the pins labeled > on the connector. Since it’s a female connector, the pin order is not the > same as on a male > connector when you are looking at the face of the connector. The pin > *locations* are the same, > they mate face to face. > >Pins 1 and 6form the PPS output pair. Pin 1 is +. >Pins 4 and 8form the RX data (data going into the box and out of > the computer) pair. Pin 4 is +. >Pins 5 and 9form the TX data pair. Pin 5 is plus. > Pin 3is ground > > The J8-diagnostic port is identical to J6 except it does not have the 1 pps > output. > > All data on these two ports is at RS-422 signaling levels. They are not the > same as RS-232. You > should use a converter with these levels. When connecting up things remember > that with a > serial connection the wire has a transmitter on one end and a receiver on the > other end. > > == > > Data format is 9600 baud, 8 data bits, no parity, one stop bit. This is often > called 8N1. If you power > up the box and type *IDN? It should come back and tell you what sort of box > it is. This same approach > works for checking serial connections to a lot of HP gear. It’s standard SCPI > stuff. The other handy > command is :SYST:STAT?. It will show you a nice screen full of information > about what the device is doing. > > If you power the box up at this point, you can talk to it via serial. The > LED’s on the right side will come > on and tell you that there are various things wrong: > >NO GPS = the box has not seen a data string from a Motorola Oncore GPS > in a a while >FAULT = the magic 15 pin cable is not plugged in >STBY = the box is not the master unit for the cell site >ON = we have power. > > The goal obviously is to get the yellow and red LED’s to turn off while > keeping the green LED glowing. > The only connections required to do this are on J5 the Interface connector. > J5 is a 15 pin connector. Like > the rest, the pins are all labeled. While 15 pins sounds like a lot, it is a > fairly simple interface. We will > start out slow with this connector. We will get it all taken care of. > > > > J5 pins connections and uses ( AKA .. the good stuff) > > Pins 8 and 13 are tied to ground inside the unit. Either one of these gets > tied to directly to pin 3. This > wire signals to the Ref-0 that a Ref-1 is plugged to wired to the connector. > The standard cable takes > pin 3 to pin 13 (which is also grounded on the Ref-1). No active signaling is > done on pin 3 It’s just a solid ground > in the normal setup. > > Pins 6 and 10 let the boxes tell each other what the setting on SW1, the > output level switch is set to. > If you set it to 23 ( = 23 dbm) you get an error flag. Just leave the switch > at 17 dbm. Jumper pin > 6 to pin 10 to keep things happy signal wise. > > So far, nothing we have done is any different on the REF-1 and getting it > running stand alone. In fact, much > of the proces
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
On 07/08/15 07:18, Charles Steinmetz wrote: Bob wrote: Well, at least *some* of the chips out there do not make it to 96 KHz when sampling at 192 KHz. Its been a few years since I dug into them. Back then a chip that had an internal filter that went to 96K was very much the exception rather than the rule. If the only point of 192K is getting to a 96K bandwidth, a lot of the chip guys missed out on it . 192k *audio* ADCs often have input anti-aliasing filters that are only 20-50kHz wide. In that case, the point of sampling at 192ks/S is so the anti-aliasing filter does not need to have a brick wall response (as it would need to have if you sampled at 48 or even 96ks/S), so it can have a flatter group delay over the range of human hearing. I guess I got lucky. The machine I brought specifically for SDR work ended up with an (on board) 192kHz sample card, that appears not to have such filters in. http://hal.g7iii.net/vlf/vlf1.png and http://hal.g7iii.net/vlf/vlf2.png You should be able to spot MSF and DCF booming in amongst the low data LF stations (and odd sprog). This is off my LF antenna, but a long wire may be sufficient (In fact a 2M long feed wire to the mic socket was picking up both time signals by itself for me, but that's another story!) While not decoding the phase, my gnuradio MSF and DCF receivers are here: http://hal.g7iii.net/GRC/Radio_Clocks/ I do have a gnuradio TDF decoder as well if anyone is interested. TDF twiddles the phase on a AM carrier to transmit the time. Originally I simply used an LPF, but then switched to using the Quadrature Demod block which was available in gnuradio Iain ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
On 8/7/2015 4:30 PM, Clint Turner wrote: > ( very detailed explanation snipped ) Thank You for your explanation, I had thought of this as well, but I do not know enough to implement this. Looking at the WWVB chips that were available, what might it take to make a discrete version of those designs ?? Thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info...
I have a very similar looking Junghams clock bought in the UK about 20 years ago (though it doesn't have that time zone graphic). It works off the UK MSF standard : still in daily use, though it doesn't sync quite so well since the transmitter moved to Cumbria (I'm quite close to the old site, Rugby). On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:44 AM, Alexander Pummer wrote: > a software demodulator for the DCF77 was published last year, the DCF77 > has similar modulation structure as the new wwvb it was developed at a > Swiss company > 73 > KJ6UHN > Alex > > > On 8/6/2015 3:11 PM, Donald wrote: > >> I have found this old posting from 2014: >> https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-August/086043.html >> >> Ivan Cousins states: >> "A WWVB receiver can now be done on an Arduino microprocessor with a >> little help from an antenna. " >> >> Googleing has not found such an article or project. >> >> Has this ever happened ? >> >> Is Ivan still around and can he shed light on this topic. >> >> Thanks >> Don >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
On 8/7/15 1:40 AM, Hal Murray wrote: kb...@n1k.org said: Well, at least *some* of the chips out there do not make it to 96 KHz when sampling at 192 KHz. It’s been a few years since I dug into them. Back then a chip that had an internal filter that went to 96K was very much the exception rather than the rule. If the only point of 192K is getting to a 96K bandwidth, a lot of the chip guys missed out on it …. Where did 192 KHz come from? Why is anybody interested in anything that far over 2*44 KHz? There's lots of high resolution parts at that rate.. And if it's that fast, odds are the built in sample/track/hold is good enough that you could directly sample the 60kHz without much trouble. With a slower ADC and a good analog BPF and a good sample/hold, you could sample at a few kHz, but that shifts the design burden to the BPF and the sample/hold. It's common to have an audio ADC run much faster than Nyquist, but that's a hack to make it easier to build the cut off filter. You build a simple analog filter and a sharp digital filter and decimator so the output is 2x the target frequency. You get what you want without a fancy analog filter. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
Hi > On Aug 7, 2015, at 12:05 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > kb...@n1k.org said: >> A ~$30 FPGA card plus an MCU would be massive overkill. It would also be >> fairly easy to do. A similarly priced ARM board from any of a dozen outfits >> *might* do the trick. > ... >> Could you get away without this or that? Who knows. There isn’t enough cost >> in any of those “chunks” to really matter compared to the months of effort >> this would take. > > If I was worried about the "months" to get things working, I'd avoid the FPGA > and do everything in software. Actually the FPGA is pretty fast. I doubt it will take more than 20% of the time the software that goes with the FPGA will take. Without the FPGA I suspect the pure software approach will take about 4X longer than FPGA + software. Been there done that ... Bob > > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
On 8/7/2015 8:13 AM, Brian Inglis wrote: Given a $10 60kHz receiver, This is the problem. I can not find $10 receivers any more. I can find $15-$20 receivers (from the UK), add shipping and it minimum $20+. Even the older chips still work with the new format, its just finding them, cheaply. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
Is it possible I bricked the unit by doing the factory reset? If so can I update the firmware somehow to get back to where I was? Thank you. Chris KD4PBJ — Sent from Mailbox On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Chris Waldrup wrote: > Hi Everyone, > When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, > tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. > So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question > marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but > after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. > So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls the > Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using the > space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running Lady > Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any satellites. > I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if there > is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to re-enable > the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. > I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. > Chris > KD4PBJ > — > Sent from Mailbox > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: >> Chris: >> If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you >> would have known because it would have said conducting survey or something >> like that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use >> the following keystrokes in LH >> S and then P >> -=Bryan=- >>> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 >>> From: kd4...@gmail.com >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >>> >>> Hi Bryan, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> — >>> Sent from Mailbox >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: >>> >>> > Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate >>> > Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset to >>> > erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. >>> > -=Bryan=- >>> >> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 >>> >> From: kd4...@gmail.com >>> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>> >> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >>> >> >>> >> Hi, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I have a >>> >> few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I have >>> >> downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right with >>> >> Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc II. I >>> >> hate to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much attention >>> >> to Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. Please >>> >> forgive me if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but I'm sort >>> >> of new to being a time nut. >>> >> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One open >>> >> frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting it >>> >> to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps from >>> >> Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I >>> >> measured the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. >>> >> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 >>> >> satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of >>> >> my house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view >>> >> of the sky here on top of a mountain in Tennessee. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Here's what I am noticing: >>> >> To start with I simply turned on the Thunderbolt on Saturday morning >>> >> without doing a warm or cold reset. Within a few minutes, I was seeing >>> >> six or seven satellites, with the SV boxes lit up green with various >>> >> numbers which I assume are satellite ID numbers. When I woke up Sunday I >>> >> was down to seeing only two satellites. The numbers listed were >>> >> different than the ones I saw before I went to bed Saturday. But when I >>> >> unplugged the AC power from the Thunderbolt and plugged it back in, I >>> >> was back to six satellites. >>> >> I had thought that the GPS satellites I am able to see from my location >>> >> are fixed 24/7. Do they move and different satellites come into view >>> >> with rotation of the earth? >>> >> I did a warm reset when I got up at 4:45 this morning and when I got >>> >> home, four satellites were still green on Tboltmon. About an hour ago I >>> >> went ahead and did a cold reset. >>> >> I now have 6 satellites where the SV is green, and one with a yellow SV >>> >> with a value of 7.0. >>> >> All critical alarms are green, and all minor alarms are green except >>> >> position questionable which is yellow. That has been
Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon
Hi Everyone, When I got home last night from work, my thunderbolt was plugging along, tracking about 5 satellites. The ppb error was a few hundred though. So in Tboltmon I did a factory reset and everything changed to question marks. All the critical alarms came up green and self survey went to 1% but after a few hours the unit wasn't receiving any satellites and still at 1%. So I loaded Lady Heather onto the old 1997 vintage laptop that controls the Thunderbolt. I figured out how to get to the command menu in LH using the space at, then typed ! Then H for a hard reset. I left the unit running Lady Heather all night and at 4:45 AM it still hadn't acquired any satellites. I'm busy until Sunday afternoon but when I get back to it I will see if there is a menu setting in LH where after doing a hard reset I need to re-enable the receiver. I'm getting serial comms just fine. I'll let you guys know what I find. Thanks again. Chris KD4PBJ — Sent from Mailbox On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Bryan _ wrote: > Chris: > If you did a cold reset I *think* it should have already done that, you would > have known because it would have said conducting survey or something like > that as opposed to "Overdetermined clock". To be safe and force it,use the > following keystrokes in LH > S and then P > -=Bryan=- >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:58:39 -0700 >> From: kd4...@gmail.com >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >> >> Hi Bryan, >> >> >> >> >> I didn't do that. Is this something accessible under one of the tabs? >> >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> — >> Sent from Mailbox >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Bryan _ wrote: >> >> > Did you do 48 hour precision first survey first to get an accurate >> > Lat/Long/ altitude?. You will probably need to start with a cold reset to >> > erase any previously stored data and then perform the survey. >> > -=Bryan=- >> >> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:16:23 -0700 >> >> From: kd4...@gmail.com >> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> >> Subject: [time-nuts] A few questions about Tboltmon >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> >> >> I got my new Thunderbolt up and running this past weekend but I have a >> >> few questions. I understand Lady Heather is a better program, and I have >> >> downloaded it. However right now I am trying to get things right with >> >> Tboltmon first. I had used it with my previous GPSDO, a Starloc II. I >> >> hate to say but the Starlic just worked, so I didn't pay much attention >> >> to Tboltmon other than to see that I was seeing satellites. Please >> >> forgive me if some of the questions may sound simplistic, but I'm sort of >> >> new to being a time nut. >> >> The Thunderbolt is brand new in package. I purchased a Power One open >> >> frame supply from EBay that was also new old stock. Before connecting it >> >> to the Thunderbolt, I went ahead and ordered new electrolytic caps from >> >> Mouser and spent last Friday night recapping the Power One box. I >> >> measured the outputs with a DMM to make sure I had 5 V, -12 V and 12 V. >> >> Noticing that in my old antenna location I could now only see 1-2 >> >> satellites (trees have grown a bit) I moved the antenna to the roof of my >> >> house, attached to a plumbing vent pipe, with a completely open view of >> >> the sky here on top of a mountain in Tennessee. >> >> >> >> >> >> Here's what I am noticing: >> >> To start with I simply turned on the Thunderbolt on Saturday morning >> >> without doing a warm or cold reset. Within a few minutes, I was seeing >> >> six or seven satellites, with the SV boxes lit up green with various >> >> numbers which I assume are satellite ID numbers. When I woke up Sunday I >> >> was down to seeing only two satellites. The numbers listed were different >> >> than the ones I saw before I went to bed Saturday. But when I unplugged >> >> the AC power from the Thunderbolt and plugged it back in, I was back to >> >> six satellites. >> >> I had thought that the GPS satellites I am able to see from my location >> >> are fixed 24/7. Do they move and different satellites come into view with >> >> rotation of the earth? >> >> I did a warm reset when I got up at 4:45 this morning and when I got >> >> home, four satellites were still green on Tboltmon. About an hour ago I >> >> went ahead and did a cold reset. >> >> I now have 6 satellites where the SV is green, and one with a yellow SV >> >> with a value of 7.0. >> >> All critical alarms are green, and all minor alarms are green except >> >> position questionable which is yellow. That has been yellow since >> >> Saturday. >> >> Under the Disciplining status, Mode is (0) Normal and Activity is (0) >> >> Phase Locking. >> >> The Timing Outputs are all over the place and have been since Saturday. >> >> Twenty minutes ago I got: >> >> PPS -106588.28 ns GPS >> >> 10 MHz 166.08 ppb >> >> >> >> >> >> So far today I have gotten t
