[time-nuts] Upgrading the Oncore GPS in the KS-24361 REF-1

[Daniel Watson]

All,

I poked around inside the KS-24361 REF-1 today to see how easy it would be
to replace/upgrade the Oncore GPS. I wasn't too successful, but I decided
to write up my findings anyway. Perhaps the information will be useful to
someone else as a starting point.

BLUF: It's not nearly as easy as hacking the REF-0 for standalone operation.

Link:
http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2015/08/upgrading-gps-in-lucent-ks-24361-ref-1.html


Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[Adrian Godwin]

I've ordered some. Please contact me directly rather than via the list if
you're interested in one or more. The seller will repackaged them to reduce
shipping so they won't be boxed quite as advertised but should be good
enough.


On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I suspect that postage throughout Europe would be much better after a bulk
> transit over the ocean. The units are already (or maybe better put still)
> packed in
> air shipping boxes with “Korean Air” tags on them. The seller then
> re-boxes those
> inside another box. I would not have any real fear of them not making the
> trip over
> the ocean in fine shape. Once they get there, you should be able to
> re-label the
> original boxes and mail them out. Certainly not a “no hassle” deal, but
> pretty
> simple as these things go.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 11, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Adrian Godwin  wrote:
> >
> > These seem a good deal but the shipping price to the UK puts me off a
> bit -
> > it's 3 x the price of the unit.
> >
> > I've looked into shipping a number of them to get a better rate and it
> > seems worthwhile. I'm happy to sell them on to time-nuts at cost (will
> > include shipping and duty) and ebay the remainder.  Would anyone be
> > interested ?
> >
> > -adrian
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 2:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> >> Dan
> >> A really nice blog even with colored dots on the pins. Can't get much
> >> better then that. Fantastic on the strings that are needed to keep the
> Ref
> >> 0 happy and there timing.
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >> WB8TSL
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words
> dump
> >>> from
> >>> pForth.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham  wrote:
> 
>  Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's
> >>> going on?
> 
>  Bob Camp
> > Hi
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
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> >>>
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Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[Alex Pummer]

one DCF77 receiver is described here: 
http://www.compuphase.com/mp3/h0420_timecode.htm
there are two files to download one for implement the MSF60 the other to 
implement the DCF77


 * A script file that implements a simple DCF77 decoder
   , that you can put on a
   CompactFlash card and run.
 * A script file that implements a simple MSF60 decoder
   , that you can put on a
   CompactFlash card and run.

I don't know the details of the difference of the transmission between 
the wwvb and the MSF60, but they should be similar

73
KJ6UHN
Alex

On 8/11/2015 3:59 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

It’s *far* more likely that Everest will sell the IP on the receiver to each of 
the
“usual suspects”. Then the watch guys will each incorporate it in their micro
BGA chips that sit inside this or that watch. It will be in the same chip as all
the stepper drivers, display drivers, and other junk. Those are the guys who
have the money to buy the tech first.

Once they have it going (and the first to sign up probably gets a 2 year 
exclusive),
it migrates from the high end watches to the less exciting ones. At some point 
the
IP cost drops far enough for one of the clock guys to drop it onto an all in 
one BGA
for their gear. Might it be a bigger package - maybe. They probably have a 
bunch of
LCD segments to drive so maybe not. I’d expect it in a talking / walking / 
clock / radio/
weather station / phone / popcorn popper combo device first.

Until that part of the world is fully loaded with parts, there is not a lot of 
incentive
to go much further with it as any sort of stand alone receiver on a chip. That 
end of
the market is way smaller than even the clock market. Doubly so unlikely since 
it’s still being
fed quite adequately by chips that went out of production years ago. The only 
slight
chance would be to get some of the short run of demo chips that people will do 
to
validate the IP. You might still have to wire bond them up to use them ….

Thus the desire to get a sub $100 set of boards up and running as a very high 
performance /
modern radio. Even with fancy parts it’s not going to be over $200 for the 
hardware. If you go
with PHK’s basic approach (no FPGA / no fancy ADC / all software)  it *might* 
be $24.00 (single
piece board) plus shipping from Mouser (1,142 in stock) with a QVGA display 
included.

Bob



On Aug 11, 2015, at 8:18 AM, paul swed  wrote:

If you need time the GPS chips are the way to go.
Heavens for $11 I think you get the complete system with antenna.
The old wwvb chips do still work as well as they ever did. They detect AM
and thats still a part of the format. They are as reliable as they ever
were. (Sort of not if you live on the East coast) due to facts stated
already.
The new wwvb format indeed does improve on all of the issues stated. There
are papers written about it and are good reads.
So it could be worth while to build up a discreet receiver PLL and such to
recover the data. But as a company Everset has to find the market that will
keep them in business. I suspect thats why we do not see any products.
If they are successful I will expect something like the following.
Clocks that can decode time easily 99% of the time per day. I have measured
the am chips and they are sub 30% of the day.That these may be $50 or more
to start. They actually consistently work in any orientation. No more must
face west.
I hope they are succesful. But if you are a builder/programmer everything
you need is available.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:


You might look into GPS devices.  They aren't quite as cheap as the WWVB

chips, but there are lots of them on the market.


Yes GPS receivers can be very cheap and self contained and much easier yo
use than those WWVB chips.  I have two of the chips.  I don't think they
work now that WWVB has changed format and even back in the day they only
worked for a few hours at night.  GPS is better.

But there is another good source for correct time.  Most people today have
WiFi in their house, at school and at work.  If the clock is going into an
area where WiFi  is available then it can connect to NTP.If the clock
connects to WiFi you can save money and parts count by not needing any
physical controls on the clock for setting or to control options as all
that can be done from a smart phone's web browser

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Gigatronics 6060 series (6062A specifically)output amplitude cal constants

[Bill Reed]

I have a service manual for the 6080A/AN. The cal procedure may be the same.

Bill Reed

-Original Message- 
From: John Ackermann N8UR

Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Gigatronics 6060 series (6062A 
specifically)output amplitude cal constants


I'd be interested in that as well... mine is out of amplitude cal as well.


On Aug 11, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Richard Moore  wrote:

Does anyone know the procedure for resetting the output level constants in 
these generators? The manuals I’ve found are silent on this, but it was 
obviously done at the factory… Mine needs levelling.


Dick Moore
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[Dan Rae]

On 8/11/2015 4:09 PM, Bob Camp wrote:


For the very ambitious, start swapping ROM’s and GPS parts from the “dead” 
REF-1 over to the “live” REF-0.


For what it's worth, I have a dead Ref-1 here that came to me with a 
dead power supply; that is now fixed but there seem to be other problems 
as well.  I looked at swapping over the gps parts from that to a new 
Ref-0 and very rapidly came to the conclusion that it was not a 
possibility, there's an awful lot of stuff different between the two 
units, especially underneath, maybe fifty components in total, although 
it does look as though the ROMs are the same, at least they have the 
same part numbers.


Dan


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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I think the salient detail on that data sheet is the phrase “up to” in front of 
the +/- 10V number. There
is little doubt that HP bought these to a custom spec. They certainly bought 
enough for that to be the
case. Single sided (zero to something) DAC’s are easier / cheaper / smaller to 
implement these days 
than double side versions. That was true (but less so) back two decades ago 
when they designed these beasts.  
There are far more OCXO’s made with 0 to Vref on the EFC than any of the other 
flavors.

Bob

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Dave M  wrote:
> 
> The OCXO in these units is the MTI-Milliren model 260.  According to its 
> datasheet, the tuning voltage range is -10Vto +10V. 
> (http://www.mti-milliren.com/pdfs/260.pdf)
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave M
> 
> 
> GandalfG8--- via time-nuts wrote:
>> Bevor I heat up the big soldering iron to remove the OCXO, I wanted to
>> 
>> ask if anybody else experienced this before and if anybody can confirm
>> 
>> that tuning voltage range is indeed 0..6 Volt. If so, replacing the
>> OCXO
>> 
>> should cure the problem.
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Mathias
>> 
>> I've not experience your problem with the KS-24361, but I  have
>> tested a
>> few of these oscillators stand alone and can confirm that the
>> reference voltage output has always been approximately 6 Volts and
>> they do  accept an EFC tuning voltage range of 6 Volts.
>> Other than one faulty unit, on all those I've tested the EFC voltage
>> has
>> been very close to 3 Volts when the oscillator frequency was within a
>> few parts in 10^11 of 5 MHz.
>> For example, looking back at a couple of test results, one was at
>> 2.9725 Volts and another at 3.0970 Volts.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Nigel
>> GM8PZR
>> 
>> Hey, hows about that, It seems like I might finally have found a way
>> to
>> reply to list messages straight from the archives without  receiving
>> them by email:-)
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Gigatronics 6060 series (6062A specifically) output amplitude cal constants

[John Ackermann N8UR]

I'd be interested in that as well... mine is out of amplitude cal as well.

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Richard Moore  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know the procedure for resetting the output level constants in 
> these generators? The manuals I’ve found are silent on this, but it was 
> obviously done at the factory… Mine needs levelling.
> 
> Dick Moore
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I suspect that postage throughout Europe would be much better after a bulk
transit over the ocean. The units are already (or maybe better put still) 
packed in 
air shipping boxes with “Korean Air” tags on them. The seller then re-boxes 
those
inside another box. I would not have any real fear of them not making the trip 
over 
the ocean in fine shape. Once they get there, you should be able to re-label 
the 
original boxes and mail them out. Certainly not a “no hassle” deal, but pretty 
simple as these things go. 

Bob

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Adrian Godwin  wrote:
> 
> These seem a good deal but the shipping price to the UK puts me off a bit -
> it's 3 x the price of the unit.
> 
> I've looked into shipping a number of them to get a better rate and it
> seems worthwhile. I'm happy to sell them on to time-nuts at cost (will
> include shipping and duty) and ebay the remainder.  Would anyone be
> interested ?
> 
> -adrian
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 2:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
>> Dan
>> A really nice blog even with colored dots on the pins. Can't get much
>> better then that. Fantastic on the strings that are needed to keep the Ref
>> 0 happy and there timing.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words dump
>>> from
>>> pForth.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham  wrote:
 
 Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's
>>> going on?
 
 Bob Camp
> Hi
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[Dave M]

The OCXO in these units is the MTI-Milliren model 260.  According to its 
datasheet, the tuning voltage range is -10Vto +10V. 
(http://www.mti-milliren.com/pdfs/260.pdf)


Cheers,
Dave M


GandalfG8--- via time-nuts wrote:

Bevor I heat up the big soldering iron to remove the OCXO, I wanted to

ask if anybody else experienced this before and if anybody can confirm

that tuning voltage range is indeed 0..6 Volt. If so, replacing the
OCXO

should cure the problem.


Hi Mathias

I've not experience your problem with the KS-24361, but I  have
tested a
few of these oscillators stand alone and can confirm that the
reference voltage output has always been approximately 6 Volts and
they do  accept an EFC tuning voltage range of 6 Volts.
Other than one faulty unit, on all those I've tested the EFC voltage
has
been very close to 3 Volts when the oscillator frequency was within a
few parts in 10^11 of 5 MHz.
For example, looking back at a couple of test results, one was at
2.9725 Volts and another at 3.0970 Volts.

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR

Hey, hows about that, It seems like I might finally have found a way
to
reply to list messages straight from the archives without  receiving
them by email:-)



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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[Bob Camp]

Hi

>From your description it sounds like you have done a very complete analysis of 
>the problem. The
only other thing you *could* do is to run the EFC over 0 to 6V with a power 
supply and see just
how the OCXO behaves. It would not tell you much more than you know already. It 
might blow 
something important out on the board.

Here’s effectively what you know:

1) The OCXO is coming up to temperature (it’s close) = not a heater issue
2) The EFC is not shorted (it does tune) 
3) The OCXO has an output and the board recognizes the output = not a shorted 
output issue
4) The board properly deals with the output that the OCXO has = not a problem 
elsewhere on the REF-1 board

I’d say it’s time for the big soldering iron and a new OCXO

— OR —

For the very ambitious, start swapping ROM’s and GPS parts from the “dead” 
REF-1 over to the “live” REF-0. 

I think taking the soldering iron to the OCXO is the better bet.

Bob


> On Aug 11, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Matthias Jelen  wrote:
> 
> Hello Time-Nuts,
> 
> I have a RFTG-U REF-0 / REF-1 pair here which seems to have a problem. The 
> error LED of the REF-1 box stays on forever, and Ulrichs SW reports an EFC 
> Error. After OCXO warmup, the EFC goes doen to it´s lower rail (-100 %) and 
> stays there forever.
> 
> Indeed the 5 MHz Output from the OCXO is abt. 2 Hz of (compared to the 10 MHz 
> Output of the REF-0 which works OK). Tuning voltage to the OCXO is 0V.
> 
> During power up, the tuning voltage is abt. 3.1 V and the OCXO is abt 4 Hz to 
> low. During this time, the DIAG:OSC.EFC:REL? gives me something like 3.085 
> E+000 - so I guess this is abt. 3% of the tuning voltage.
> 
> Reference voltage output from the OCXO itself is abt. 6.1 V.
> 
> From that I conclude that the tuning voltage range is from 0 to + 6 Volts.
> 
> When the tuning voltage drops from 3 V to 0 V, frequency goes up, but not 
> high enough -2 Hz offset from 5 MHz remain.
> 
> This makes me think that the OCXO has a problem and is not reaching the 5 MHz 
> within it´s tuning range.
> 
> Bevor I heat up the big soldering iron to remove the OCXO, I wanted to ask if 
> anybody else experienced this before and if anybody can confirm that tuning 
> voltage range is indeed 0..6 Volt. If so, replacing the OCXO should cure the 
> problem.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
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Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It’s *far* more likely that Everest will sell the IP on the receiver to each of 
the
“usual suspects”. Then the watch guys will each incorporate it in their micro 
BGA chips that sit inside this or that watch. It will be in the same chip as all
the stepper drivers, display drivers, and other junk. Those are the guys who 
have the money to buy the tech first. 

Once they have it going (and the first to sign up probably gets a 2 year 
exclusive),
it migrates from the high end watches to the less exciting ones. At some point 
the 
IP cost drops far enough for one of the clock guys to drop it onto an all in 
one BGA
for their gear. Might it be a bigger package - maybe. They probably have a 
bunch of
LCD segments to drive so maybe not. I’d expect it in a talking / walking / 
clock / radio/
weather station / phone / popcorn popper combo device first. 

Until that part of the world is fully loaded with parts, there is not a lot of 
incentive 
to go much further with it as any sort of stand alone receiver on a chip. That 
end of
the market is way smaller than even the clock market. Doubly so unlikely since 
it’s still being 
fed quite adequately by chips that went out of production years ago. The only 
slight
chance would be to get some of the short run of demo chips that people will do 
to 
validate the IP. You might still have to wire bond them up to use them ….

Thus the desire to get a sub $100 set of boards up and running as a very high 
performance / 
modern radio. Even with fancy parts it’s not going to be over $200 for the 
hardware. If you go 
with PHK’s basic approach (no FPGA / no fancy ADC / all software)  it *might* 
be $24.00 (single 
piece board) plus shipping from Mouser (1,142 in stock) with a QVGA display 
included. 

Bob


> On Aug 11, 2015, at 8:18 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> If you need time the GPS chips are the way to go.
> Heavens for $11 I think you get the complete system with antenna.
> The old wwvb chips do still work as well as they ever did. They detect AM
> and thats still a part of the format. They are as reliable as they ever
> were. (Sort of not if you live on the East coast) due to facts stated
> already.
> The new wwvb format indeed does improve on all of the issues stated. There
> are papers written about it and are good reads.
> So it could be worth while to build up a discreet receiver PLL and such to
> recover the data. But as a company Everset has to find the market that will
> keep them in business. I suspect thats why we do not see any products.
> If they are successful I will expect something like the following.
> Clocks that can decode time easily 99% of the time per day. I have measured
> the am chips and they are sub 30% of the day.That these may be $50 or more
> to start. They actually consistently work in any orientation. No more must
> face west.
> I hope they are succesful. But if you are a builder/programmer everything
> you need is available.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> 
>> You might look into GPS devices.  They aren't quite as cheap as the WWVB
>>> chips, but there are lots of them on the market.
>> 
>> 
>> Yes GPS receivers can be very cheap and self contained and much easier yo
>> use than those WWVB chips.  I have two of the chips.  I don't think they
>> work now that WWVB has changed format and even back in the day they only
>> worked for a few hours at night.  GPS is better.
>> 
>> But there is another good source for correct time.  Most people today have
>> WiFi in their house, at school and at work.  If the clock is going into an
>> area where WiFi  is available then it can connect to NTP.If the clock
>> connects to WiFi you can save money and parts count by not needing any
>> physical controls on the clock for setting or to control options as all
>> that can be done from a smart phone's web browser
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
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[time-nuts] Fluke/Gigatronics 6060 series (6062A specifically) output amplitude cal constants

[Richard Moore]

Does anyone know the procedure for resetting the output level constants in 
these generators? The manuals I’ve found are silent on this, but it was 
obviously done at the factory… Mine needs levelling.

Dick Moore
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Bevor I heat up the big soldering iron to remove the OCXO, I wanted to 

ask if anybody else experienced this before and if anybody can confirm 

that tuning voltage range is indeed 0..6 Volt. If so, replacing the OCXO 

should cure the problem.


Hi Mathias
 
I've not experience your problem with the KS-24361, but I  have tested a 
few of these oscillators stand alone and can confirm that the  reference 
voltage output has always been approximately 6 Volts and they do  accept an EFC 
tuning voltage range of 6 Volts.
Other than one faulty unit, on all those I've tested the EFC voltage  has 
been very close to 3 Volts when the oscillator frequency was within a  few 
parts in 10^11 of 5 MHz.
For example, looking back at a couple of test results, one was at  2.9725 
Volts and another at 3.0970 Volts.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
Hey, hows about that, It seems like I might finally have found a way  to 
reply to list messages straight from the archives without  receiving them by 
email:-)
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[Adrian Godwin]

These seem a good deal but the shipping price to the UK puts me off a bit -
it's 3 x the price of the unit.

I've looked into shipping a number of them to get a better rate and it
seems worthwhile. I'm happy to sell them on to time-nuts at cost (will
include shipping and duty) and ebay the remainder.  Would anyone be
interested ?

-adrian


On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 2:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:

> Dan
> A really nice blog even with colored dots on the pins. Can't get much
> better then that. Fantastic on the strings that are needed to keep the Ref
> 0 happy and there timing.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words dump
> > from
> > pForth.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham  wrote:
> > >
> > > Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's
> > going on?
> > >
> > > Bob Camp
> > >> Hi
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[Azelio Boriani]

Here you can find a solution:


On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:20 PM, David C. Partridge
 wrote:
> I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my Thunderbolt is
> being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse (yes, just like before
> inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on Windows 7 in the boot.ini to
> stop this, but for the life on me I can't remember what it was.
>
> Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what the
> magic incantionation is.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[Mike Naruta AA8K]

You can disable serial mouse detection:
< 
http://www.taltech.com/support/entry/windows_2000_nt_serial_mice_and_missing_com_port 
>


If you are using an old mouse, it might disable it as well and 
you will need to use a USB mouse.


On 08/11/2015 08:20 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:

I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my Thunderbolt is
being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse (yes, just like before
inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on Windows 7 in the boot.ini to
stop this, but for the life on me I can't remember what it was.

Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what the
magic incantionation is.

Thanks
Dave


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Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[David C. Partridge]

Tahnks to John Lofgren:

> Click on start --> In the search box, type in regedit Registry editor 
> windows opens... Navigate to the location:
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
> --> SYSTEM
> --> CurrentControlSet
> --> Services
> --> sermouse
> In the right hand, you'll see stuff like:
>
> (default)
> DisplayName
> etc. etc. etc.
>
> There should be a "dword (32bit) value" titled:
>
> "start"
>
> Set the value of this to: 0004 

Regards,
David Partridge 
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Martin
Burnicki
Sent: 11 August 2015 17:25
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

David C. Partridge wrote:
> I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my 
> Thunderbolt is being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse 
> (yes, just like before inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on 
> Windows 7 in the boot.ini to stop this, but for the life on me I can't
remember what it was.
> 
> Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what 
> the magic incantionation is.

The boot option /NoSerialMice should do the trick. See:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-en/kb/131976

However, unklike mentioned in the above article, you can't just edit a
boot.ini file in current Windows versions. Instead you have to run the
bcdedit utility shipped with Windows. See:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff545492%28v=vs.85
%29.aspx

Haven't tried this under Windows 10, yet, but hope it still works.

Martin

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Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[Martin Burnicki]

David C. Partridge wrote:
> I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my Thunderbolt is
> being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse (yes, just like before
> inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on Windows 7 in the boot.ini to
> stop this, but for the life on me I can't remember what it was.
> 
> Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what the
> magic incantionation is.

The boot option /NoSerialMice should do the trick. See:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-en/kb/131976

However, unklike mentioned in the above article, you can't just edit a
boot.ini file in current Windows versions. Instead you have to run the
bcdedit utility shipped with Windows. See:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff545492%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Haven't tried this under Windows 10, yet, but hope it still works.

Martin

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Re: [time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[Jim Lux]

On 8/11/15 5:20 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:

I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my Thunderbolt is
being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse (yes, just like before
inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on Windows 7 in the boot.ini to
stop this, but for the life on me I can't remember what it was.

Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what the
magic incantionation is.



On win 7, I go into device manager (rt click on computer, properties, 
etc.) and disable "Microsoft Serial Mouse".


There's probably a command line way to do it it too, using the command 
line device manager tool.  You'd need to know the name of the device, 
but once you know it, you're set for ever.


Does Win10 use a similar scheme?  It's very likely: it's not like MS 
rewrites the OS kernel.. the version changes are more UI focused. Device 
manager in Win7 isn't a whole lot different than it was in NT4.0




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[time-nuts] Serial Ballpoint issue again

[David C. Partridge]

I just installed Windows 10 (yes I know how rash), and now my Thunderbolt is
being detected as a Microsoft Serial Ballpoint Mouse (yes, just like before
inder Windows 7).  I had set something up on Windows 7 in the boot.ini to
stop this, but for the life on me I can't remember what it was.

Please could someone who's got this setup on Windows 7 remind me what the
magic incantionation is.

Thanks
Dave

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[time-nuts] KS-24361 EFC Error

[Matthias Jelen]

Hello Time-Nuts,

I have a RFTG-U REF-0 / REF-1 pair here which seems to have a problem. 
The error LED of the REF-1 box stays on forever, and Ulrichs SW reports 
an EFC Error. After OCXO warmup, the EFC goes doen to it´s lower rail 
(-100 %) and stays there forever.


Indeed the 5 MHz Output from the OCXO is abt. 2 Hz of (compared to the 
10 MHz Output of the REF-0 which works OK). Tuning voltage to the OCXO 
is 0V.


During power up, the tuning voltage is abt. 3.1 V and the OCXO is abt 4 
Hz to low. During this time, the DIAG:OSC.EFC:REL? gives me something 
like 3.085 E+000 - so I guess this is abt. 3% of the tuning voltage.


Reference voltage output from the OCXO itself is abt. 6.1 V.

From that I conclude that the tuning voltage range is from 0 to + 6 Volts.

When the tuning voltage drops from 3 V to 0 V, frequency goes up, but 
not high enough -2 Hz offset from 5 MHz remain.


This makes me think that the OCXO has a problem and is not reaching the 
5 MHz within it´s tuning range.


Bevor I heat up the big soldering iron to remove the OCXO, I wanted to 
ask if anybody else experienced this before and if anybody can confirm 
that tuning voltage range is indeed 0..6 Volt. If so, replacing the OCXO 
should cure the problem.


Regards,

Matthias
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt issue found

[Matthias Jelen]

Chris,

did you allready get your photos?

If not, I can open up mine tonight and see if I can make 
some shots under the microscope...


73,

Matthias, DK4YJ

Hi Everyone,


Thanks for the suggestions this past weekend for helping get my new Thunderbolt 
fixed. I got back into town last night late so couldn't tackle it until tonight.
I put a DMM on the F connector and I didn't have 5V on it. Opening up the case, 
I found the top blown off one of the SOT package transistors. It's the one 
closest to U19 and is connected to this chip's pin 14.
I have the Thunderbolt with the three separate input voltages (5, -12,12). Does 
someone have a board they can look at and let me know the code on the 
transistor so I can see about a replacement?
Maybe even a closeup shot of the 5 SOT packaged devices in that area as I may 
find another is bad.
Thank you in advance.


Chris
KD4PBJ

—
Sent from Mailbox
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt issue found

[paul swed]

Agree with Bob. The fact that the top is blown off sounds like a bit of
lightning.
You can easily adapt a classic npn or pnp in for a temporary test. 3904 or
3906.
I have needed to do this on other things. It confirms quickly thats the
issue and then you just need the new smt to solder in.
I fear you nightmare may just beginning.
Good luck.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> It’s a pretty good bet that what ever is *really* is a generic PNP or NPN
> device will drop in. You need a low frequency device like the 3904 series.
> It’s going to carry about 40 ma to your antenna. A high(er) current part
> (Ic max > 100 ma) is
> better than a low(er) current (Ic max < 20 ma) part in this case.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:12 PM, Chris Waldrup  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestions this past weekend for helping get my new
> Thunderbolt fixed. I got back into town last night late so couldn't tackle
> it until tonight.
> > I put a DMM on the F connector and I didn't have 5V on it. Opening up
> the case, I found the top blown off one of the SOT package transistors.
> It's the one closest to U19 and is connected to this chip's pin 14.
> > I have the Thunderbolt with the three separate input voltages (5,
> -12,12). Does someone have a board they can look at and let me know the
> code on the transistor so I can see about a replacement?
> > Maybe even a closeup shot of the 5 SOT packaged devices in that area as
> I may find another is bad.
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> >
> > Chris
> > KD4PBJ
> >
> > —
> > Sent from Mailbox
> > ___
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt issue found

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It’s a pretty good bet that what ever is *really* is a generic PNP or NPN
device will drop in. You need a low frequency device like the 3904 series. 
It’s going to carry about 40 ma to your antenna. A high(er) current part (Ic 
max > 100 ma) is 
better than a low(er) current (Ic max < 20 ma) part in this case. 

Bob

> On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:12 PM, Chris Waldrup  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions this past weekend for helping get my new 
> Thunderbolt fixed. I got back into town last night late so couldn't tackle it 
> until tonight. 
> I put a DMM on the F connector and I didn't have 5V on it. Opening up the 
> case, I found the top blown off one of the SOT package transistors. It's the 
> one closest to U19 and is connected to this chip's pin 14. 
> I have the Thunderbolt with the three separate input voltages (5, -12,12). 
> Does someone have a board they can look at and let me know the code on the 
> transistor so I can see about a replacement?
> Maybe even a closeup shot of the 5 SOT packaged devices in that area as I may 
> find another is bad. 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> Chris
> KD4PBJ
> 
> —
> Sent from Mailbox
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Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[paul swed]

If you need time the GPS chips are the way to go.
Heavens for $11 I think you get the complete system with antenna.
The old wwvb chips do still work as well as they ever did. They detect AM
and thats still a part of the format. They are as reliable as they ever
were. (Sort of not if you live on the East coast) due to facts stated
already.
The new wwvb format indeed does improve on all of the issues stated. There
are papers written about it and are good reads.
So it could be worth while to build up a discreet receiver PLL and such to
recover the data. But as a company Everset has to find the market that will
keep them in business. I suspect thats why we do not see any products.
If they are successful I will expect something like the following.
Clocks that can decode time easily 99% of the time per day. I have measured
the am chips and they are sub 30% of the day.That these may be $50 or more
to start. They actually consistently work in any orientation. No more must
face west.
I hope they are succesful. But if you are a builder/programmer everything
you need is available.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> You might look into GPS devices.  They aren't quite as cheap as the WWVB
> > chips, but there are lots of them on the market.
>
>
> Yes GPS receivers can be very cheap and self contained and much easier yo
> use than those WWVB chips.  I have two of the chips.  I don't think they
> work now that WWVB has changed format and even back in the day they only
> worked for a few hours at night.  GPS is better.
>
> But there is another good source for correct time.  Most people today have
> WiFi in their house, at school and at work.  If the clock is going into an
> area where WiFi  is available then it can connect to NTP.If the clock
> connects to WiFi you can save money and parts count by not needing any
> physical controls on the clock for setting or to control options as all
> that can be done from a smart phone's web browser
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[Adrian Godwin]

The difficult thing about that is that making the wifi connection without
any user interface is difficult now that most wifi connections have
security enabled.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> You might look into GPS devices.  They aren't quite as cheap as the WWVB
> > chips, but there are lots of them on the market.
>
>
> Yes GPS receivers can be very cheap and self contained and much easier yo
> use than those WWVB chips.  I have two of the chips.  I don't think they
> work now that WWVB has changed format and even back in the day they only
> worked for a few hours at night.  GPS is better.
>
> But there is another good source for correct time.  Most people today have
> WiFi in their house, at school and at work.  If the clock is going into an
> area where WiFi  is available then it can connect to NTP.If the clock
> connects to WiFi you can save money and parts count by not needing any
> physical controls on the clock for setting or to control options as all
> that can be done from a smart phone's web browser
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] LH Command Line Help

[Bryan _]

Just on my OP is there a command line to change from dbc to AMU. Everyone in a 
while it pops up, but no sure how I managed to change it.  Restarting an it 
reverts to dbc

-=Bryan=-

> From: bpl...@outlook.com
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:44:49 -0700
> Subject: [time-nuts] LH Command Line Help
> 
> All:
> Wondering if anyone knows, and maybe it's not possible to start LH with the 
> map displaying signals. I can enable the map with /gb, from the command line 
> but can't seem to find a switch to toggle between azimuth, weighted azimuth, 
> elevation, Signals,Data etc that would normally be available from the Antenna 
> Survey command. (S)->(A) toggle options.
> Cheers
> -=Bryan=-   
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[time-nuts] LH Command Line Help

[Bryan _]

All:
Wondering if anyone knows, and maybe it's not possible to start LH with the map 
displaying signals. I can enable the map with /gb, from the command line but 
can't seem to find a switch to toggle between azimuth, weighted azimuth, 
elevation, Signals,Data etc that would normally be available from the Antenna 
Survey command. (S)->(A) toggle options.
Cheers
-=Bryan=- 
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[time-nuts] Another KS-24361 REF1 DOA, investigation

[Orin Eman]

I ended up with a dead REF1, so I decided to investigate.

The -15V was at -0.6V and the 15V at 3.5V.  The power module was hot
to the touch.

Then I found Bob Stewart's post from a few months back, so I decided
to pull the power module and check the capacitors.  First, I measured
the resistance of the power rails to ground.  15V was about 1k and
-15V 0.9 ohm, so I was pretty sure it was one of the tantalum
capacitors.

The pins in the power module are not well seated.  Two came loose just
under the influence of my Hakko 808.  A third broke off while pulling
out the circuit board.  The potting compound came off the bottom in
big chunks, no problem at all.  Some of the potting compound stayed on
the top of the board, but not over the offending capacitors.

I removed the capacitor from the -15V output and it measures about 1.0
ohms, so its definitely dead.

For the record, it is 15 uF, 25V (and the capacitor on the 15V output
is the same).

I happened to have some 10uF 35V surface mount tantalum capacitors
around, so I soldered one in place of the original part for test
purposes (I'd have used two in parallel if they would have fit; I
doubt that the value is critical), fixed the broken pins and did the
push it into the holes trick... I applied power and it flashes its
LEDs as expected.

So, time to order up a few 15uF >= 25V caps.  I'll be replacing both
before putting it all back together!

Orin.

*I had 35V rated parts around to get a low ESR, I use them with an
LT1763-3.3 that wants < 3 ohms ESR on its output.
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Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[Chris Albertson]

You might look into GPS devices.  They aren't quite as cheap as the WWVB
> chips, but there are lots of them on the market.


Yes GPS receivers can be very cheap and self contained and much easier yo
use than those WWVB chips.  I have two of the chips.  I don't think they
work now that WWVB has changed format and even back in the day they only
worked for a few hours at night.  GPS is better.

But there is another good source for correct time.  Most people today have
WiFi in their house, at school and at work.  If the clock is going into an
area where WiFi  is available then it can connect to NTP.If the clock
connects to WiFi you can save money and parts count by not needing any
physical controls on the clock for setting or to control options as all
that can be done from a smart phone's web browser

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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