Re: [time-nuts] GPS splitter

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

I don't remember anymore. I just picked one somewhere in that range. I 
got a inductor SMD set. The main point is that the time-constant of L*R 
needs to be low enough not to cause any real harm to 1,57542 GHz, which 
makes the value relatively flexible. Sure, I did not consider the stub 
of the T-connector, but it seemed to work.


So, 68 nH could very well be it.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/21/2017 08:12 PM, David C. Partridge wrote:

Hi Magnus - what sort of inductor value did you use?  68nH or so?

Dave

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus 
Danielson
Sent: 17 June 2017 15:12
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS splitter

Hi,

At one time I had to design a DC-load since the GPSDO did not experience enough antenna 
current due to a different antenna being used. So, a BNC-T was quickly converted with a 
SMD inductor and resistor to add 150 Ohm of more load, and that helped the telecom 
operator to get their GPS out of "no GPS antenna" warning and actually accept 
the GPS satellites it was already detecting fine.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/17/2017 02:40 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

The DC block requirement depends a lot on the design of the GPSDO’s
you are using. With some GPSDO’s a 50 ohm load on the eighth port of a
splitter will do a pretty good job of “antenna detect” signaling. In
the more general case of “I didn’t design this beast” dc blocks and dc shunts 
to ground is the best approach.
This fairly quickly gets you headed in the direction of the HP /
Symmetricom splitters.

Bob




On Jun 16, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:

This brings up some interesting questions:

If sharing an active GPS antenna, do you have to DC block all but one
receiver port to prevent multiple receivers trying to supply current
to the antenna?

On say a 26dB antenna (ignoring line loss, power divider insertion
loss, et al), what is the effective gain to each receiver?  (Sorry,
having a senior moment)

Should ALL unused ports have 50 ohm +/- 0j terminators on them?  I
assume so...  Thus, it would be "better" to always use the divider
with the minimum required ports?

I am assuming since this is a receive only situation, it will follow
approximately the same rules of physics that dealing with satellite
antenna installations.

I would LIKE to share one PC-TEL 26dB GPS antenna mounted at the top
of my 38 foot horiz.loop mast right  at the shack entrance, using
LMR-400-DB from antenna to Narda 2-way and thence to my current
hacked Nortel GPSDO and my soon to be complete RPi 2/3 w/ Adafruit
Ultimate GPS Hat NTP Server.  On that mast, the antenna would have a
near 360 degree view of the sky completely unobstructed.
(Eventually, I expect both of those units to be replaced with commercial units).

I'm assuming that I DC block whichever unit is capable of providing
the LEAST current at 5VDC...  I suspect the Nortel unit can supply
more current than the RPi, but that's not a guarantee...  And I guess
I could block/turn off DC delivery on BOTH units and add a voltage
adjustable, current limiting DC injection unit into the line.

Thanks.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/16/2017 7:26 PM, Tim Lister wrote:

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:

I have reached the point that I need a 4-port splitter for my GPS antenna 
(outdoor 5 volt).  Any recommendations of models (HP/Symmertricom/Microsemi) to 
acquire OR to avoid??

As we recommended to me when I asked a similar question, the Narda
4372A-4 was a brand I had not heard of before and didn't come up in
'gps splitter' searches. I got one on ebay for $24 plus a bit extra
for DC blocks on the n-1 other ports and it seems to work well and
it was handy to have an SMA-based solution as most of the gps
receivers and the antenna pucks seem to use SMA. This meant I only
needed 1 N to SMA converter cable for an external antenna (which has
yet to be externalized...). I found it smaller in real life  than it
looks in a lot of the pictures, about the size of a modern
smartphone but about double or more the thickness (the connectors are on the 
ends).


greg
---

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bill Byrom]

Since I have met Charles in person a couple of times at his office in
Austin and used their microwave multiplied golden low phase noise
oscillators for a project and recommended Wenzel to others, I admit my
bias in favor of his projects.

I was going to comment earlier in this thread about the advantages of
Powerpole connectors and my bad experiences with old circular pin power
connectors from Molex and Amp, but decided to wait until the inevitable
storm of competing arguments blew over. I just finished wiring a
Powerpole connector to an Amplifier Research 144 MHz low noise preamp
tomorrow for use in Field Day this weekend for some satellite contacts
by a friend. He's also borrowing a big 100 AH 12V AGM battery from me,
so I added an inline fuseholder to a Powerpole standard ARES red/black
plug setup.

We should all remember that circuit protection, a proper fire
extinguisher, and safety goggles are important for fire and personal
(explosion) safety when initially connecting our new experimental
setups. Fuses or circuit breakers should always be used for connections
to batteries. Even small modern batteries can supply very high peak
currents, and in some cases you might not be there to handle the
emergency. My two personal stories are:

(1) A common 9V (NEDA1604 style) battery should never be left where it
might contact a metal short, and should never be left in a pocket. I
knew better, but temporarily slipped an alkaline 9V battery into a
trouser pocket, where it was shorted by my keys and became extremely hot
very rapidly. The peak current might reach 10 A (depending on the
battery chemistry and how it's shorted), so the battery heats up very
rapidly!

(2) When I was in high school (about 45 years ago) and still learning
how electrical and electronic stuff worked, I decided I needed to try
resistance soldering. This soldering technique was described in the
William Orr W6SAI Radio Handbook (unrelated to the ARRL  Handbook).  I
had some AWG 14 insulated wire and a surplus 2.5 V filament transformer
(rated for over 25 Amps, I'm sure). I found some old welding rods or
copper rods to apply the current to the joint being soldered. After
hooking it all up, I applied the rods to the joint and was surprised
when the copper wire used for my connections rapidly turned red hot and
fused, dropping molten copper onto the floor. I thought I understood
Ohm's Law and power dissipation in resistors, but obviously I didn't
have a practical understanding of the current handling capacity of the
wire. The wire acted as a fuse before the primary circuit fuse or mains
circuit breaker had a chance to trip.
--
Bill Byrom N5BB

- Original message -
From: Chris Albertson 
...
I did something stupid last might and assembled power distribution not
as designed with a mosfet switch and diode in backwards then connected
a high power density battery.  I had an open flame along an entire run
of #18 cable but finally the coper conductor failed (the metal
vaporized) and the circuit opened and the flame stopped.   I have some
chared remains of wires and crunchy black melted plastic.  But the
XT60 connectors are still good.  The metal parts inside are still
shiny gold plated and the nylon shells are good as new, after cleaning
the soot off.

I was actually holding the connecter in my hand when the thing went
off like a bomb, but just minor burns.  Still amazed the connecter is
fine after unsoldering the little stubs of burned wire from the pins.



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak 
wrote:
> Wes, Don,
>
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
> they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>
> /tvb
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] GPScon running on Raspberry Pi 3b

[Hal Murray]

hol...@hotmail.com said:
> The PI does have a couple of logic level serial ports on the expansion
> connector you can connect a level shifter two.  One port is normally the
> Linux serial console which you can configure to be a general purpose serial
> port (I've never used them, but others have). 

The console port used by the GPS HATs.  Works fine.  /dev/ttyAMA0

The PPS pin varies depending on which type of HAT you get.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] GPScon running on Raspberry Pi 3b

[Orin Eman]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:

>
> The PI does have a couple of logic level serial ports on the expansion
> connector you can connect a level shifter two.  One port is normally the
> Linux serial console which you can configure to be a general purpose serial
> port (I've never used them, but others have).
>


Oh, that's fun on the Pi, especially the Pi3.  Here are my notes on the Pi3
from a different project.  If you're really lucky, they didn't change it
again.

QUOTE:

Well, they just couldn't make it backward compatible out of the box...

By default, ttyAMA0 is used for Bluetooth so there are more hoops to jump
through to wrest it away from the OS's grasp.  ttyS0 is now wired to the IO
pins which we could use if it worked correctly, but apparently its baud
rate depends on the cpu core frequency which is _variable_*.  Fortunately
there is a way of routing ttyAMA0 to the IO pins

As before, all references to ttyAMA0 need removing from /boot/cmdline.txt.

To disable bluetooth:

systemctl disable hciuart
Add "dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt" to /boot/config.txt

Finally, perhaps unnecessary, use raspi-config to disable login on the
serial port.  (Serial under Advanced Options.)

* https://frillip.com/raspberry-pi-3-uart-baud-rate-workaround/
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=138223
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

… but not a Cannon connector. If you get those inserts along with a few signal 
leads, they
are up into the $50 to $200 a pair range. They also don’t do terribly well in 
vibration. 

Bob

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> look to this spec. data from Amphenol found @ Mouser as example:
> 
> Current Rating:
> power Contacts: 55 Amperes (per contact)
> Signal Contacts: 5 Amperes (per contact)
> Contact Resistance:
> Power Contacts: .25 milliohms max
> Signal Contacts: 20 milliohms max
> Insulation Resistance: 5000 Megohms
> DWV: 1500V DC
> Operating Temperature: -40°C to +105°C
> 
> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/18/LCC17_BRO-44772.pdf
> 
> ok, for shure more expensive (LCC17-A3W3SM-2N0, 
> 
>  $ 9.45 per con. one side, solder connection)
> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/276/Mixed_Layout-472362.pdf e.g. for crimped 
> contacts
> 
> Not of interest?
> 
> But sorry, even being very interesting, I think we should not stress too much 
> the term 'time' in this discussion here ;-) .
> 
> kind regards
> Arnold, DK2WT
> 
> 
> Am 23.06.2017 um 01:33 schrieb Bob kb8tq:
>> Hi
>> 
>> You can get and use PP’s at 30 to 50A in a 12V circuit without frying them 
>> or the cable they are
>> attached to. Doing the same with a “Cannon” connector is not at all easy 
>> ….You can also bump up
>> to the larger PP’s and get into a couple of hundred amps.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:54 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
>>> Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
>>> companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
>>> type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
>>> higher level specification numbers.
>>> We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
>>> (MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
>>> no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
>>> different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
>>> part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
>>> Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
>>> the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
>>> max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
>>> reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
>>> 'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
>>> connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
>>> vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.
>>> 
>>> The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
>>> are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
>>> contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
>>> made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
>>> 9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
>>> big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
>>> equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
>>> same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
>>> It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
>>> right quality device for his product ...
>>> 
>>> I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.
>>> 
>>> regards, 73
>>> 
>>> Arnold, DK2WT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:
 Hi,
 
 The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
 generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
 
 Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
 others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
 connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
 MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
 product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
 On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
> use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
> The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
> perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
> connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
> incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.
> 
> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Spencer
> 
> m...@alignedsolutio

Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

A few tips on Power Poles.

1. Super Flex wire works very well.  It's typically made of of 44 AWG strands.  For PCB mounting a single strand can be 
used for mechanical rigidity.


2. There's no rule that all the current has to be carried by a single terminal
The M455-1 power supply uses many pins in parallel on the 24 Volt 50 Amp output Amphenol connector where 7 and 8 pins 
are wired in parallel rather than use a connector with a couple of pins rated at 50 or more Amps.

http://www.prc68.com/I/M4551.shtml
3.  Note the "24 Volt" version of the Power Pole connector.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

 Original Message 

Bob,

look to this spec. data from Amphenol found @ Mouser as example:

Current Rating:
power Contacts: 55 Amperes (per contact)
Signal Contacts: 5 Amperes (per contact)
Contact Resistance:
Power Contacts: .25 milliohms max
Signal Contacts: 20 milliohms max
Insulation Resistance: 5000 Megohms
DWV: 1500V DC
Operating Temperature: -40°C to +105°C

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/18/LCC17_BRO-44772.pdf

ok, for shure more expensive (LCC17-A3W3SM-2N0, 
 
$ 9.45 per con. one side, solder connection)

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/276/Mixed_Layout-472362.pdf e.g. for crimped contacts

Not of interest?

But sorry, even being very interesting, I think we should not stress too much the term 'time' in this discussion here 
;-) .


kind regards
Arnold, DK2WT


Am 23.06.2017 um 01:33 schrieb Bob kb8tq:

Hi

You can get and use PP’s at 30 to 50A in a 12V circuit without frying them or 
the cable they are
attached to. Doing the same with a “Cannon” connector is not at all easy ….You 
can also bump up
to the larger PP’s and get into a couple of hundred amps.

Bob


On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:54 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:


Hello,

I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t connector
type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
higher level specification numbers.
We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
(MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.

The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
right quality device for his product ...

I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.

regards, 73

Arnold, DK2WT



Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:

Hi,

The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.

Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector. The silver
connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.

Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.














Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com



_

[time-nuts] GPScon running on Raspberry Pi 3b

[Mark Sims]

Heather only requires TXD, RXD, and GND.   If you want to use the temperature 
control feature RTS and DTR.

Most Linux distros have decent USB serial port drivers built in.  I tend to use 
no-name Chinese PL-2303 based USB dongles... because I have them.   They have 
worked fine on all the Linuxy stuff I have used and the Windows drivers they 
shipped with work.

I no longer use FTDI based devices since there are LOTS of clone chips out 
there and FTDI is rather aggressive about having their (Windows) drivers not 
work with them.  Since there is no way to tell what chip is actually being used 
in a dongle, I just avoid the FTDI stuff and any potential hassles.  There are 
also fake Prolific chips out there and Prolific has also been known to block 
their Windows drivers from working with them.  If you can find genuine FTDI / 
Prolific chip based dongles, they are great... but buyer beware these days.

I also have some CH3xx dongles that have some clone chips in them.  Many Linux 
drivers don't seem to be able to set the baud rate on those.

Something recently changed on one of my Win XP boxes (perhaps installing the 
TL-833 prom burner software) and some of my PL-2303 dongles have started acting 
up.  After a day or two of continuous operation they start randomly dropping 
received bytes.  No issues running the same dongles on PI / Linux / macOS or 
previously on that XP system.  

The garbaged received data did help my find a bug in Heather...  they could 
produce numbers like 1.2345E300.   Heather was expecting a number like 9.8765 
and tried to format and print the value.  The resulting 300 character string 
overflowed a buffer and crashed the program.   Now my number reader routines do 
a sanity check and reject obviously bogus values, NANs, INFs, etc.

The PI does have a couple of logic level serial ports on the expansion 
connector you can connect a level shifter two.  One port is normally the Linux 
serial console which you can configure to be a general purpose serial port 
(I've never used them, but others have).

---

> Are there any special requirements for using a USB to RS-232 adapter on the
Pi? Any specific features for the RS-232 adapter to get all of the features
for Lady Heather?
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Arnold Tibus]

Bob,

look to this spec. data from Amphenol found @ Mouser as example:

Current Rating:
power Contacts: 55 Amperes (per contact)
Signal Contacts: 5 Amperes (per contact)
Contact Resistance:
Power Contacts: .25 milliohms max
Signal Contacts: 20 milliohms max
Insulation Resistance: 5000 Megohms
DWV: 1500V DC
Operating Temperature: -40°C to +105°C

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/18/LCC17_BRO-44772.pdf

ok, for shure more expensive (LCC17-A3W3SM-2N0, 
 
$ 9.45 per con. one side, solder connection)
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/276/Mixed_Layout-472362.pdf e.g. for crimped 
contacts


Not of interest?

But sorry, even being very interesting, I think we should not stress too 
much the term 'time' in this discussion here ;-) .


kind regards
Arnold, DK2WT


Am 23.06.2017 um 01:33 schrieb Bob kb8tq:

Hi

You can get and use PP’s at 30 to 50A in a 12V circuit without frying them or 
the cable they are
attached to. Doing the same with a “Cannon” connector is not at all easy ….You 
can also bump up
to the larger PP’s and get into a couple of hundred amps.

Bob


On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:54 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:


Hello,

I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
higher level specification numbers.
We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
(MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.

The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
right quality device for his product ...

I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.

regards, 73

Arnold, DK2WT



Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:

Hi,

The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.

Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.

Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.














Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com



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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

The 45 Amp terminals come in two versions, one being " Hi Détente" p/n: 201G1H that is much stronger although I've never 
had a pull apart problem.


--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

 Original Message 

Wes, Don,

I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used them 
for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in my 
home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, reliable, 
genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 5V, 12V, 24V, 
and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.

What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
square or figure 8 knot on the cables.

/tvb

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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[William H. Fite]

A good friend of mine, sadly of blessed memory, was a lead engineer for
Grumman on the comm systems of the lunar lander. He spoke of small
space-rated multi-pin connectors that cost upward of $500 each.



On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Arnold Tibus  wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
> Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
> companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
> type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
> higher level specification numbers.
> We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
> (MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
> no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
> different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
> part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
> Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
> the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
> max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
> reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
> 'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
> connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
> vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.
>
>  The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
> are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
> contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
> made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
> 9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
> big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
> equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
> same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
> It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
> right quality device for his product ...
>
> I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature
> point.
>
> regards, 73
>
> Arnold, DK2WT
>
>
>
> Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
> > generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
> >
> > Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
> > others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
> > connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
> > MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
> > product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> >
> > On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
> >> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
> >> use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
> >>  The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
> >> perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
> >> connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
> >> incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.
> >>
> >> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark Spencer
> >>
> >> m...@alignedsolutions.com 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
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> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
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-- 
William H Fite, PhD
Independent Consultant
Statistical Analysis & Research Methods
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Mark Spencer]

I hear what you are saying and basically agree with you.
  In my experience however phrases such as "25 pair amphenol connector" and "2 
pin Deutsch connector" have a commonly accepted meaning in the industries I 
have worked in over the years.   Putting these terms into Google brings up the 
items I expect to see which is admittedly a fairly subjective criteria.   I 
agree however there are more precise designations and that in many 
circumstances they should be used.  Sorry I don't remember what they were / are 
and rarely needed to use them in practice.  I'm more or less retired and what 
ever memories I had of specific connector part numbers beyond the standard 
terms used in the industries I have worked in have largely faded.

As this is a hobby for me I'm disinclined to look up specific part numbers but 
can appreciate that others may wish to do so and welcome the additional detail.

I believe there is some benefit to further discussions along these lines 
(perhaps though there should be a connector nuts list.)

>From a time nuts perspective I expect there could be healthy discussion to be 
>had about the relative merits of BNC vs SMA connectors for example.

The issue of power connectors with locking devices is also in my view quite 
relevant to time nuts.   The dialogue vis a vis power pole connectors has also 
been one of the best I have ever seen on the Internet. 


Thanks all

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
> Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
> companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
> type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
> higher level specification numbers.
> We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
> (MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
> no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
> different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
> part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
> Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
> the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
> max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
> reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
> 'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
> connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
> vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.
> 
> The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
> are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
> contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
> made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
> 9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
> big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
> equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
> same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
> It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
> right quality device for his product ...
> 
> I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.
> 
> regards, 73
> 
> Arnold, DK2WT
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
>> generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
>> 
>> Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
>> others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
>> connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
>> MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
>> product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>> 
>>> On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
>>> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
>>> use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>>> The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
>>> perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
>>> connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
>>> incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.
>>> 
>>> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark Spencer
>>> 
>>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

You can get and use PP’s at 30 to 50A in a 12V circuit without frying them or 
the cable they are 
attached to. Doing the same with a “Cannon” connector is not at all easy ….You 
can also bump up
to the larger PP’s and get into a couple of hundred amps. 

Bob

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:54 PM, Arnold Tibus  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
> Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
> companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
> type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
> higher level specification numbers.
> We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
> (MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
> no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
> different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
> part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
> Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
> the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
> max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
> reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
> 'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
> connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
> vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.
> 
> The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
> are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
> contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
> made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
> 9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
> big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
> equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
> same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
> It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
> right quality device for his product ...
> 
> I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.
> 
> regards, 73
> 
> Arnold, DK2WT
> 
> 
> 
> Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
>> generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
>> 
>> Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
>> others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
>> connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
>> MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
>> product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>> 
>> On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
>>> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
>>> use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>>> The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
>>> perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
>>> connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
>>> incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.
>>> 
>>> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark Spencer
>>> 
>>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] GPScon running on Raspberry Pi 3b

[timenut]

Mark,

Are there any special requirements for using a USB to RS-232 adapter on the
Pi? Any specific features for the RS-232 adapter to get all of the features
for Lady Heather? Looking at eBay, it is not clear which adapter would be
best. Some don't say anything about supported pins, other list the pins that
are supported (and may differ). Which pins do you require / support? Are any
device drivers needed for the Pi or Linux for those adapters?

New to Linux, Pi and Lady Heather.

Thanks.

Michael

> Lady Heather can run under Linux, macOS,  FreeBSD, and Windoze.   It runs
> well on the PI (2 or 3) and the soon to be released version 6 has support
> for the touchscreen and several new devices.   I can send anybody interested
> in testing the new version the latest source code to build.  Contact me off 
> list.

> New devices include the RFTG-m,  Truepostion GPSDO,  Zyfer Nanosync 380, 
> Brandywine GPS4, Jackson Labs LTE-lite,  Oscilloquartz Star-4,  NEC GPSDO, 
> Trimble TAIP receivers, most SCPI GPSDOs (Z38xx, HP-5),  HP-5071A,  TAPR
> TICC,  HP-531xx counters,  generic time/frequency counters,  etc

> --

>> I believe that having a native GPS monitoring software on a Raspberry Pi 
>> instead of PC would become a game changer.
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-- 
Best regards,
 Timenutmailto:time...@metachaos.net

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Re: [time-nuts] How to love your Power Poles.

[Van Horn, David]

One thing I love about them is that you can create odd geometries.
All my ham gear, and generally anything I own that's 12V has APPs in the OC 
Races standard.
All lead acid sources are also same.

I could see using a different geometry for lithium batteries and the stuff that 
goes with them, and different colors, like black and orange or black and yellow 
to differentiate three and four cell packs.

They aren't the solution to every problem, but they are pretty slick.

I use big powerpoles on my jumper cables.  The other end is standard clips.  My 
battery has a permanent pigtail.  So I connect to the dead battery, then plug 
in which makes the connection safely away from either battery.

-Original Message-


That said I do have some power pole cables.  They work good for 12VDC lead acid 
battery type stuff.  But NEVER use then for exotic battery
chemistries.   Fires are not good.  and it WILL happen if you use PP
on Lithium type batteries, an accident waiting to happen.

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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Arnold Tibus]

Hello,

I can second Magnus and want to throw in some more details.
Cannon, Deutsch, Bendix, Souriau, Matrix, Amphenol,  etc. etc. are (big)
companies manufacturing all kind of connectors and are  n o t  connector
type designations! Important are the type numbers of the manufacturer or
higher level specification numbers.
We used in the aircraft and spacecraft business naturally the military
(MS-) numbers listed in the MIL-QPL (or eg. for Spacelab with GSFC spec.
no). Most types of connectors are under these numbers available from
different manufacturers, of course with different manufacturer in house
part numbers. Attention: the 'same' connectors may be bought w/o the
Mil.-spec. sheets with somewhat lesser quality. Important details are
the max. mating number, the contact resistance (e.g. 20 mOhm) and the
max. continuous current, max. Voltage, vibration resistance and
reliability etc.  Of course, this makes good connectors somewhat
'expensive'. Hirel and non-magnetic gold plated D- subminiture type
connectors do survive e.g. the rocket launch phase (high vibrations),
vacuum and low temperatures and are still used for space projects.

 The D-sub series of connectors was introduced by Cannon in 1952. They
are still available as standard, hirel, and non-magnetic versions. The
contacts were machined contacts forcrimping or soldering connection and
made of massive copper with gold finish. (more see e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature). Example for the standard
9 pin connector designation (crimp): DEMAM-9S and DEMAM-9P. Today are a
big number of companies producing equivalent types. Cheap ones are
equipped with contacts made of sheetmetal. Nobody should expect then the
same spec. values as reliability, mating numbers, contact power rating etc.
It is up to the designer of a product to be informed and select the
right quality device for his product ...

I hope I could enlight a bit the connector selection and nomenclature point.

regards, 73

Arnold, DK2WT



Am 22.06.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Magnus Danielson:
> Hi,
>
> The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not
> generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
>
> Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many
> others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a
> connector type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular
> MIL-STD connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a
> product available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
>> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect
>> use of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>>  The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I
>> perhaps in correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver
>> connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I perhaps
>> incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.
>>
>> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Spencer
>>
>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Bob Bownes]

Keep in mind that there are a large variety of power pole connectors. I first 
encountered them in the cables and connectors used to recharge electric 
forklifts. Plenty big and can handle plenty of power.

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 16:06, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> I think they call these "16mm aviation plugs" in the CNC machine tool
> world.  They are common for connecting servo or stepper motors to their
> controllers.
> 
> they have any number of poles from 2 to 6 or more and screw rings that
> secure them.   Usually really good quality even from Chinese eBay vendors.
> But they are really used only for a cable to chassis and only up to a few
> amps.  here is one
> 
> 
> Why so many connecter types?   So you don't cross stuff up.
> 
> Power poles are great for low-tech 12 volt buss systems that don't need any
> kind of engineering and are tolerant of connecting "anything to anything."
> Amateur radios and lead acid batteries are OK.  Not good for high tech
> battery or their chargers or loads.
> 
> Th XT60 or if you need 90  amps, the XT90 is ok because it is gendered and
> you can't accidentally connect two sources.
> 
> The aviation type are perfect for cabling four or six lead motors.
> 
> I would not use 3-pin XLR for anything but audio.  Don't make it easy to
> connect line level audio to a battery.
> 
> A really dumb idea was this guy, I heard this story secondhand.  He used
> A/C extension cords for speaker cables because they work well for that
> purpose, but then someone plugged a speaker into a 120vac well outlet.   I
> assume it made a load 60 Hz tone for a few cycles.Best to follow
> industry conventions because that is what people expect.
> 
> Even though it would work well electrically, no one uses a mini-USB jack
> for Ethernet and for good reason
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Mark Spencer 
> wrote:
>> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect use
> of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>> The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I perhaps in
> correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver connector with 3
> separate female contacts was what I perhaps incorrectly referred to as a
> "XLR" connector.
>> 
>> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Spencer
>> 
>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Orin Eman]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>
> A really dumb idea was this guy, I heard this story secondhand.  He used
> A/C extension cords for speaker cables because they work well for that
> purpose, but then someone plugged a speaker into a 120vac well outlet.   I
> assume it made a load 60 Hz tone for a few cycles.Best to follow
> industry conventions because that is what people expect.
>


 CQ magazine had an article where they did something similar and used a
120V extension cord for low voltage - 12V solar panels or some such
project.  Accidently plug the cord into 120V and you'd blow your panels and
radios up!  I didn't renew my subscription after that one.
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Re: [time-nuts] How to love your Power Poles.

[Shane Morris]

My AU$0.02 worth, evidently trading less than the Greenback right now...

Coloured PP shells.

Yup, I'd already seen this issue, I'm using PP's on traction driver packs
(totally unrelated to this list, but run with me, they're DC), the input -
"hot" - would be a *red* shell, and the output - "cold" - would be *black*.
Your main strapping *from* the traction batteries or alternator would have
a matching red/ "hot" plug. Motor supply straps would have the black plug.

I was indenturing to be a telephone linesman many years ago. I'm only just
a little rusty on my 10 pair. Don't ask anything over a 20 pair please, I'd
need to be quite inebriated for that... just my luck, I'm putting an Aria
130 PABX with two 25 pair Champ sockets back together soon...

I actually ran into PP's for the first time in amateur radio work, we had
repurposed commercial band gear into the UHF CB band here in Oz for public
safety during a remote off grid orienteering event. That was all
*deliberately* KISS - myself, the linie, my adopted brother, the electrical
engineer, and our adopted uncle, another electrical engineer. Between the
three of us, we'd see about as much FUBAR you could cram into that amount
of combined working life. I found them damned reliable compared to a
cigarette lighter plug, and I was yet to encounter Merit plugs, commonly
used in dual way fridges here in Oz when I lived off grid for a while.

I can think of an occasion where you'd *absolutely need* a non-gendered
connection, but its so almost uniquely specific to my work I'm loathe to
mention it here. Its also a single pole.

A coloured PP isn't a proof against your lithium chemistry storage turning
into a fireball, yes, you're correct. But it might give pause to the
operator, and prompt them to *double check* before throwing the knife
switch, which was my intention.

Now, does anyone know much about RCDs and dual pole DC circuit breakers
that'd kill the supply in case such a situation arose...? Over to you!

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:09 AM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> No, there are more problems.   Being non-gendered that apply
> connections mistakes like connecting to power sources together.
> Could you imagine how bad it would be if all power connectors were
> not-gendered?   then you could connect two wall AC mains outlet
> together.  Kind of a problem if there were out of phase (US 120VAC
> wiring is like that)   Bad enough that it allows tow DC power supplies
> to be connected.
>
> What is is good for is it you are in a hurry.  non-genet connections
> were invented for firemen so after laying dow 300 feet of hose that
> NEVER find the have it backwards and have to flip a 300 foot hose end
> for end.   Ive done this a few times with outdoor AC extension cords.
>
> There is an advantage to gendered connectors.  Typically the source
> are female and you can't plug two outhouse together by mistake.   If
> you need N-way connections yo make and test the power harness before
> hand.
>
> That said I do have some power pole cables.  They work good for 12VDC
> lead acid battery type stuff.  But NEVER use then for exotic battery
> chemistries.   Fires are not good.  and it WILL happen if you use PP
> on Lithium type batteries, an accident waiting to happen.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 7:11 AM, James Robbins 
> wrote:
> > I’ve used Power Poles for some years.  I have a proper crimper intended
> for PP.  Color coding is very useful.
> >
> > I think the complaints about them are due to two things:  (1) improper
> crimping of the contacts and (2) heavy gauge wire.
> >
> > The PP15/30/45 use the same plastic housing while changing the size of
> the contact.  A wire gauge suitable for 30 to 45 amps is quite large
> physically and puts a great deal of mechanical strain on the plastic
> connectors.  So, when such a gauge of wire moves (or doesn’t move), it
> tends to disconnect the plastic housings.  If the connections are from one
> set of wires to another, a two prong plastic jumper plug can successfully
> hold the four connectors together through the mating holes in the pair
> during movement.
> >
> > The problem is that when one set of connectors is mounted in a chassis,
> it is often not really possible to use a two prong plug (or Ty-Wrap) to
> physically hold them together.  Move the chassis and if the wire doesn’t
> want to follow, you get disconnected.
> >
> > Two solder lugs mounted to the chassis and a few small Ty-Wraps will fix
> most of this “heavy wire” issue.
> >
> > Jim Robbins
> > N1JR
> >
> > PS:  Make up a pair of PP with an LED to test your future PP builds.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Chris Albertson]

I think they call these "16mm aviation plugs" in the CNC machine tool
world.  They are common for connecting servo or stepper motors to their
controllers.

they have any number of poles from 2 to 6 or more and screw rings that
secure them.   Usually really good quality even from Chinese eBay vendors.
But they are really used only for a cable to chassis and only up to a few
amps.  here is one


Why so many connecter types?   So you don't cross stuff up.

Power poles are great for low-tech 12 volt buss systems that don't need any
kind of engineering and are tolerant of connecting "anything to anything."
 Amateur radios and lead acid batteries are OK.  Not good for high tech
battery or their chargers or loads.

Th XT60 or if you need 90  amps, the XT90 is ok because it is gendered and
you can't accidentally connect two sources.

The aviation type are perfect for cabling four or six lead motors.

I would not use 3-pin XLR for anything but audio.  Don't make it easy to
connect line level audio to a battery.

A really dumb idea was this guy, I heard this story secondhand.  He used
A/C extension cords for speaker cables because they work well for that
purpose, but then someone plugged a speaker into a 120vac well outlet.   I
assume it made a load 60 Hz tone for a few cycles.Best to follow
industry conventions because that is what people expect.

Even though it would work well electrically, no one uses a mini-USB jack
for Ethernet and for good reason



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Mark Spencer 
wrote:
> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect use
of the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>  The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I perhaps in
correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver connector with 3
separate female contacts was what I perhaps incorrectly referred to as a
"XLR" connector.
>
> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Spencer
>
> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>
>
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-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Chris Albertson]

Get the "real ones" not the knock-off clones.  Better plastic and
better precision molding.   There are lots of cheap ones on eBay.

HobbyKing has the best prices for authentic, higher quality ones.
Still only 80 cents.

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Brent  wrote:
> Never seen the XT60.  Thanks for the heads up - looks promising - and cheap.
>
> Brent
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Chris Albertson > wrote:
>
>> One of the problems of power poles is they are expensive.  Not a
>> problem if you only need a few of them.   I've been buying DC
>> connectors by the bag full as I've working on some battery powered
>> mobile robots  I robot does not need many but for every finish one
>> you've build maybe four breadboard systems and then you have the
>> battery charging systems and the cables that connect battery chargers
>> to power supplies. (LiPo battery charging is complex when you get into
>> 18 volt 10 amp hour sizes.
>>
>> Power poles are also rather bulky.  OK if the equipment is stationary
>> but not good for something that flies or drives around where weight
>> and volume matter a lot.
>>
>> I've standardized on XT60 type connectors  These very compact and
>> rated for 60 amps continuous.  Much easier to assemble and they cost
>> about 80 cents per mating pair.They are common in the electric
>> power drone industry as battery connectors
>> the XT60 is easy to use because they don't come apart.  the metal pins
>> are permanently molded into the shell, you simply solder the wires on.
>> The shell is high temperate plastic and withstands even unskilled
>> soldering.
>>
>> I did something stupid last might and assembled power distribution not
>> as designed with a mosfet switch and diode in backwards then connected
>> a high power density battery.  I had an open flame along an entire run
>> of #18 cable but finally the coper conductor failed (the metal
>> vaporized) and the circuit opened and the flame stopped.   I have some
>> chared remains of wires and crunchy black melted plastic.  But the
>> XT60 connectors are still good.  The metal parts inside are still
>> shiny gold plated and the nylon shells are good as new, after cleaning
>> the soot off.
>>
>> I was actually holding the connecter in my hand when the thing went
>> off like a bomb, but just minor burns.  Still amazed the connecter is
>> fine after unsoldering the little stubs of burned wire from the pins.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>> > Wes, Don,
>> >
>> > I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole
>> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used
>> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem:
>> in my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive,
>> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my
>> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>> >
>> > What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I
>> mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical
>> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a
>> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>> >
>> > /tvb
>> >
>> > ___
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
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> and follow the instructions there.



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Re: [time-nuts] How to love your Power Poles.

[Chris Albertson]

No, there are more problems.   Being non-gendered that apply
connections mistakes like connecting to power sources together.
Could you imagine how bad it would be if all power connectors were
not-gendered?   then you could connect two wall AC mains outlet
together.  Kind of a problem if there were out of phase (US 120VAC
wiring is like that)   Bad enough that it allows tow DC power supplies
to be connected.

What is is good for is it you are in a hurry.  non-genet connections
were invented for firemen so after laying dow 300 feet of hose that
NEVER find the have it backwards and have to flip a 300 foot hose end
for end.   Ive done this a few times with outdoor AC extension cords.

There is an advantage to gendered connectors.  Typically the source
are female and you can't plug two outhouse together by mistake.   If
you need N-way connections yo make and test the power harness before
hand.

That said I do have some power pole cables.  They work good for 12VDC
lead acid battery type stuff.  But NEVER use then for exotic battery
chemistries.   Fires are not good.  and it WILL happen if you use PP
on Lithium type batteries, an accident waiting to happen.




On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 7:11 AM, James Robbins  wrote:
> I’ve used Power Poles for some years.  I have a proper crimper intended for 
> PP.  Color coding is very useful.
>
> I think the complaints about them are due to two things:  (1) improper 
> crimping of the contacts and (2) heavy gauge wire.
>
> The PP15/30/45 use the same plastic housing while changing the size of the 
> contact.  A wire gauge suitable for 30 to 45 amps is quite large physically 
> and puts a great deal of mechanical strain on the plastic connectors.  So, 
> when such a gauge of wire moves (or doesn’t move), it tends to disconnect the 
> plastic housings.  If the connections are from one set of wires to another, a 
> two prong plastic jumper plug can successfully hold the four connectors 
> together through the mating holes in the pair during movement.
>
> The problem is that when one set of connectors is mounted in a chassis, it is 
> often not really possible to use a two prong plug (or Ty-Wrap) to physically 
> hold them together.  Move the chassis and if the wire doesn’t want to follow, 
> you get disconnected.
>
> Two solder lugs mounted to the chassis and a few small Ty-Wraps will fix most 
> of this “heavy wire” issue.
>
> Jim Robbins
> N1JR
>
> PS:  Make up a pair of PP with an LED to test your future PP builds.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Mark Spencer]

There seem to be many variations in colloquial naming in different regions and 
industries.   Part of the reason I prefer to deal with local vendors with a 
parts counter is to be able to more or less confirm that connectors match / 
mate properly prior to purchasing them.  

All the best.

Mark Spencer


m...@alignedsolutions.com


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not generally 
> recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.
> 
> Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many others 
> confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a connector type is not 
> a good thing. The first connector is a circular MIL-STD connector (don't 
> remember the correct notation), and this is a product available from ITT 
> Cannon as well as AMP.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
>> On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
>> Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect use of 
>> the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
>> The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I perhaps in 
>> correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver connector with 3 
>> separate female contacts was what I perhaps incorrectly referred to as a 
>> "XLR" connector.
>> 
>> Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Spencer
>> 
>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

The second connect has been called "Cannon" and XLR, and is not 
generally recogniced as XLR, which is the product range name.


Naming of the first connector as "Cannon" is at least for me and many 
others confusing. This is a good example how vendor name for a connector 
type is not a good thing. The first connector is a circular MIL-STD 
connector (don't remember the correct notation), and this is a product 
available from ITT Cannon as well as AMP.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/22/2017 08:42 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect use of the terms 
"cannon" and "XLR."
 The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I perhaps in correctly referred to as 
a "cannon" connector.  The silver connector with 3 separate female contacts was what I 
perhaps incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" connector.

Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.














Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com



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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[John Ackermann N8UR]

For what it's worth, I use PowerPoles extensively -- I use them for all 
my 12V distribution on ham gear as well as time-nuts stuff.  One great 
advantage of the genderless design is that you can use extension cables, 
breakout boxes, and other tools to solve lots of problems.


But they do lack as a chassis-mount connector.  I was looking for 
something inexpensive and reliable for 12V power on some rack enclosures 
I was building, and came upon a series of connectors that I really 
liked.  They are Conxall/Switchcraft "Mini-Con-X" series, available in a 
bunch of configurations from 2 to 8 or so pins.  I use a 2-pin version 
with solder-cup connectors that take up to 16 gauge wire.  The chassis 
version mounts in a 0.61 inch hole.


They're not throw-away cheap, but not unreasonable: the chassis 
connector (Conxall/Switchcraft 7382-2PG-300, DigiKey SC2130-ND) is $4.32 
quantity 1, and the matching in-line connector (Conxall/Switchcraft 
6382-2SG-3DC, DigiKey SC1893-ND) is $7.06 quantity 1.  I'm standardizing 
on these for any 12V project that goes into a box.  (If I do anything 
with 24V, I'll probably use a 3 or 4 pin version to avoid mis-plugging 
across the voltages.)


John


On 06/22/2017 01:45 PM, Brandon Graham wrote:

Having followed Time nuts for a bit, I guess I'll finally chime in.

For the PPs, it's like all other things, knowing the goods and bads.  I've
been using PPs for years, starting with RC Warship Combat (Battleships that
shoot and sink each other, so lots of interchangeable parts), and have seen
some of the other hobby connectors in use.  The hermaphroditic nature of
PPs are useful because you don't have to follow a standard as you can see
the polarity. Tamiya connectors from RC to Ham radio had a different
standard of opposite polarity with the same gender, allowing them to be
connected and blow equipment.  If you are using a lot of PPs (We've gone
through several hundred at this point) you don't create a mismatch of male
vs female connectors in your stock.  The double edge is that you can
connect things that shouldn't be connected if you are not careful.

The silver plated PPs also hold up better in wet environments.  PPs are
bulkier than some other hobby connectors, but for a connector that is
connected and disconnected frequently, the PPs work very well.

A safety factor the PPs have is that all contacts are covered.  There is no
exposed metal that could lead to a short. They have a audible and tactile
click when they are connected.  They can also be oriented in ways to
prevent plugging different voltages together.  They can also be very useful
in making large "bus" connectors, but are horribly bulky if something
smaller would do.

I'm not always a fan of chassis PPs on equipment (K3), and a short pigtale
from the equipment or a captive connector like the Molex is preferred to
then go to PP's. A command strip or other attachment on the equipment with
the power cable held to prevent disconnecting alleviates unplugging it
however.

My experience.
Brandon
W0GPR (ex-KB3IGC)

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:


No one has brought up the issue of hermaphrodicity, so
I will.  Only PP's are hermaphroditic.  Why does this
matter?  It matters in the case of a battery.  A battery
is both a power source and a power sink.  In the PP
system, you can make a 3 way connection between a
power source, a power sink, and a battery, where
the battery float charges on the 12V bus it is connected
to.  Non-hermaphroditic connector schemes do not allow
a 3 way connection.  Attempting to do a work around
would require fabricating a special 3 way harness,
which would not be idiot proof.

This is the fundamental reason for using PP's.

If you never use batteries, then all the other
gendered connector schemes are fair game.

As far as connectors pulling out is concerned:
use a cable clamp to strain relieve the connection.

Rick N6RK

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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[jimlux]

On 6/22/17 7:37 AM, Chris Caudle wrote:

On Thu, June 22, 2017 7:40 am, Mike Seguin wrote:

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional sound
industry.
http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/


Neutrik make a variant specifically created for power connections instead
of speaker connections.  I think they are essentially the same style
design but with different color coding to make them stand out from speaker
connections.  I don't know if the contact plating may be different, or the
spacing different so it can handle higher voltages. Ground mates first
before the two power pins (three pin instead of the four pin Speakon).  UL
listed for up to 250V AC.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/



Most important, the power and speaker connectors are NOT intermateable. 
The little tabs and notches are different.



In the movie biz, the 4 pin XLR is pretty standard for 12 and 24VDC 
battery packs. It's been almost 20 years, so I don't remember the pinout.


The 3 pin XLR is a pretty good sized pin that can take a lot of current. 
 The 4 pin is smaller, and the 5 pin is really pretty small.


The XLR is nice and rugged (although not waterproof, it can be made so), 
and it tolerates being driven over or stepped on, and it locks. The 
chassis mount is fairly small (not much bigger than a Anderson PP with 
chassis mount housing/bracketry)


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[time-nuts] Power connectors continued

[Mark Spencer]

Sorry if I have caused any un due confusion thru my perhaps incorrect use of 
the terms "cannon" and "XLR."
 The green connector with 4 separate female contacts is what I perhaps in 
correctly referred to as a "cannon" connector.  The silver connector with 3 
separate female contacts was what I perhaps incorrectly referred to as a "XLR" 
connector. 

Both were in use in my lab powering time nuts gear.










Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com

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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Brent]

Never seen the XT60.  Thanks for the heads up - looks promising - and cheap.

Brent

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> One of the problems of power poles is they are expensive.  Not a
> problem if you only need a few of them.   I've been buying DC
> connectors by the bag full as I've working on some battery powered
> mobile robots  I robot does not need many but for every finish one
> you've build maybe four breadboard systems and then you have the
> battery charging systems and the cables that connect battery chargers
> to power supplies. (LiPo battery charging is complex when you get into
> 18 volt 10 amp hour sizes.
>
> Power poles are also rather bulky.  OK if the equipment is stationary
> but not good for something that flies or drives around where weight
> and volume matter a lot.
>
> I've standardized on XT60 type connectors  These very compact and
> rated for 60 amps continuous.  Much easier to assemble and they cost
> about 80 cents per mating pair.They are common in the electric
> power drone industry as battery connectors
> the XT60 is easy to use because they don't come apart.  the metal pins
> are permanently molded into the shell, you simply solder the wires on.
> The shell is high temperate plastic and withstands even unskilled
> soldering.
>
> I did something stupid last might and assembled power distribution not
> as designed with a mosfet switch and diode in backwards then connected
> a high power density battery.  I had an open flame along an entire run
> of #18 cable but finally the coper conductor failed (the metal
> vaporized) and the circuit opened and the flame stopped.   I have some
> chared remains of wires and crunchy black melted plastic.  But the
> XT60 connectors are still good.  The metal parts inside are still
> shiny gold plated and the nylon shells are good as new, after cleaning
> the soot off.
>
> I was actually holding the connecter in my hand when the thing went
> off like a bomb, but just minor burns.  Still amazed the connecter is
> fine after unsoldering the little stubs of burned wire from the pins.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> > Wes, Don,
> >
> > I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem:
> in my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive,
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
> >
> > What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I
> mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Brandon Graham]

Having followed Time nuts for a bit, I guess I'll finally chime in.

For the PPs, it's like all other things, knowing the goods and bads.  I've
been using PPs for years, starting with RC Warship Combat (Battleships that
shoot and sink each other, so lots of interchangeable parts), and have seen
some of the other hobby connectors in use.  The hermaphroditic nature of
PPs are useful because you don't have to follow a standard as you can see
the polarity. Tamiya connectors from RC to Ham radio had a different
standard of opposite polarity with the same gender, allowing them to be
connected and blow equipment.  If you are using a lot of PPs (We've gone
through several hundred at this point) you don't create a mismatch of male
vs female connectors in your stock.  The double edge is that you can
connect things that shouldn't be connected if you are not careful.

The silver plated PPs also hold up better in wet environments.  PPs are
bulkier than some other hobby connectors, but for a connector that is
connected and disconnected frequently, the PPs work very well.

A safety factor the PPs have is that all contacts are covered.  There is no
exposed metal that could lead to a short. They have a audible and tactile
click when they are connected.  They can also be oriented in ways to
prevent plugging different voltages together.  They can also be very useful
in making large "bus" connectors, but are horribly bulky if something
smaller would do.

I'm not always a fan of chassis PPs on equipment (K3), and a short pigtale
from the equipment or a captive connector like the Molex is preferred to
then go to PP's. A command strip or other attachment on the equipment with
the power cable held to prevent disconnecting alleviates unplugging it
however.

My experience.
Brandon
W0GPR (ex-KB3IGC)

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

> No one has brought up the issue of hermaphrodicity, so
> I will.  Only PP's are hermaphroditic.  Why does this
> matter?  It matters in the case of a battery.  A battery
> is both a power source and a power sink.  In the PP
> system, you can make a 3 way connection between a
> power source, a power sink, and a battery, where
> the battery float charges on the 12V bus it is connected
> to.  Non-hermaphroditic connector schemes do not allow
> a 3 way connection.  Attempting to do a work around
> would require fabricating a special 3 way harness,
> which would not be idiot proof.
>
> This is the fundamental reason for using PP's.
>
> If you never use batteries, then all the other
> gendered connector schemes are fair game.
>
> As far as connectors pulling out is concerned:
> use a cable clamp to strain relieve the connection.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Chris Albertson]

One of the problems of power poles is they are expensive.  Not a
problem if you only need a few of them.   I've been buying DC
connectors by the bag full as I've working on some battery powered
mobile robots  I robot does not need many but for every finish one
you've build maybe four breadboard systems and then you have the
battery charging systems and the cables that connect battery chargers
to power supplies. (LiPo battery charging is complex when you get into
18 volt 10 amp hour sizes.

Power poles are also rather bulky.  OK if the equipment is stationary
but not good for something that flies or drives around where weight
and volume matter a lot.

I've standardized on XT60 type connectors  These very compact and
rated for 60 amps continuous.  Much easier to assemble and they cost
about 80 cents per mating pair.They are common in the electric
power drone industry as battery connectors
the XT60 is easy to use because they don't come apart.  the metal pins
are permanently molded into the shell, you simply solder the wires on.
The shell is high temperate plastic and withstands even unskilled
soldering.

I did something stupid last might and assembled power distribution not
as designed with a mosfet switch and diode in backwards then connected
a high power density battery.  I had an open flame along an entire run
of #18 cable but finally the coper conductor failed (the metal
vaporized) and the circuit opened and the flame stopped.   I have some
chared remains of wires and crunchy black melted plastic.  But the
XT60 connectors are still good.  The metal parts inside are still
shiny gold plated and the nylon shells are good as new, after cleaning
the soot off.

I was actually holding the connecter in my hand when the thing went
off like a bomb, but just minor burns.  Still amazed the connecter is
fine after unsoldering the little stubs of burned wire from the pins.



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> Wes, Don,
>
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
> they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>
> /tvb
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bob Bownes]

These are the ones we use:

AMP part # 206708-1

Standard Circular Connector PLUG 9 POSITION shell size 13



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Mark Spencer 
wrote:

> I believe the "AMP" connectors you are referring to are what I would call
> a "Cannon" connector.   A good choice for that application IMHO.
>
> Mark Spencer
>
> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>
>
> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Bob Bownes  wrote:
> >
> > Right Tool for the Job.
> >
> > I use barrel connectors when I _want_ the cord to come out when the unit
> falls off the shelf rather than dangle by the power cable.
> >
> > Locking Molex, or, far better, locking AMP connections when I want the
> unit to hang by the cord when necessary.
> >
> > We've gone to 9 pin circular locking AMP connectors for rotors on our 2x
> /year ham radio contest set up on the mountain (take a look for W2SZ /
> MGEF). Waterproof (not water tight), sturdy, impossible to misalign. And
> 40' of cable can hang from one for a few minutes if need be.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 22, 2017, at 09:03, Clint Jay  wrote:
> >>
> >> Heh, I was thinking just that when I typed it. They're almost inverted,
> the
> >> pegs are on the plug and the slots are on the socket, the ones I've seen
> >> aren't spiral slots, you have to fully engage the plug before you twist.
> >>
> >> I like PowerPoles, I like barrel connections, as with so many things
> it's
> >> all about the application, choose the one that works for you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 22 Jun 2017 1:53 pm, "Bob Bownes"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Locking barrel connectors...
> >>>
> >>> Aren't those called BNCs? ;)
> >>>
> >>> In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life
> critical
> >>> application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External
> >>> Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white)
> are
> >>> glued together rather than using the roll pin.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
>  On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:
> 
>  It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert
> as
>  normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and
> sockets
> >>> are
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mark Spencer]

Good point and for hobby use (ie. Amateur radio, time nuts pursuits etc.) I can 
see this being a consideration.   

That being said in my prior day jobs where we had various solar panel, battery, 
charge controller, AC powered charger,  load combinations etc.. as far as I can 
recall I never encountered equipment that  allowed for that  specific use case 
via hermaphroditic connectors.  It is still a good point however.

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
> wrote:
> 
> No one has brought up the issue of hermaphrodicity, so
> I will.  Only PP's are hermaphroditic.  Why does this
> matter?  It matters in the case of a battery.  A battery
> is both a power source and a power sink.  In the PP
> system, you can make a 3 way connection between a
> power source, a power sink, and a battery, where
> the battery float charges on the 12V bus it is connected
> to.  Non-hermaphroditic connector schemes do not allow
> a 3 way connection.  Attempting to do a work around
> would require fabricating a special 3 way harness,
> which would not be idiot proof.
> 
> This is the fundamental reason for using PP's.
> 
> If you never use batteries, then all the other
> gendered connector schemes are fair game.
> 
> As far as connectors pulling out is concerned:
> use a cable clamp to strain relieve the connection.
> 
> Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

The ITT Cannon XLR range became known as Cannon-connector and 
XLR-connector, with the later as the long term name. Often the 3-pole 
XLR connector is being used, but many other exists, including different 
sizes of pins and shells.


One should ba a bit careful to use the vendor name to identify a 
connector type.


BTW, I agree with Rick's comment on power-pole and use on batteries. 
This is the reason I use power-poles on my ham-equipment. It also allows 
for combining adapters in interestinng ways.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/22/2017 06:11 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

I believe the "AMP" connectors you are referring to are what I would call a 
"Cannon" connector.   A good choice for that application IMHO.

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com



On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Bob Bownes  wrote:

Right Tool for the Job.

I use barrel connectors when I _want_ the cord to come out when the unit falls 
off the shelf rather than dangle by the power cable.

Locking Molex, or, far better, locking AMP connections when I want the unit to 
hang by the cord when necessary.

We've gone to 9 pin circular locking AMP connectors for rotors on our 2x /year 
ham radio contest set up on the mountain (take a look for W2SZ / MGEF). 
Waterproof (not water tight), sturdy, impossible to misalign. And 40' of cable 
can hang from one for a few minutes if need be.





On Jun 22, 2017, at 09:03, Clint Jay  wrote:

Heh, I was thinking just that when I typed it. They're almost inverted, the
pegs are on the plug and the slots are on the socket, the ones I've seen
aren't spiral slots, you have to fully engage the plug before you twist.

I like PowerPoles, I like barrel connections, as with so many things it's
all about the application, choose the one that works for you.




On 22 Jun 2017 1:53 pm, "Bob Bownes"  wrote:

Locking barrel connectors...

Aren't those called BNCs? ;)

In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life critical
application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External
Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white) are
glued together rather than using the roll pin.

Bob


On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:

It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets

are



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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

No one has brought up the issue of hermaphrodicity, so
I will.  Only PP's are hermaphroditic.  Why does this
matter?  It matters in the case of a battery.  A battery
is both a power source and a power sink.  In the PP
system, you can make a 3 way connection between a
power source, a power sink, and a battery, where
the battery float charges on the 12V bus it is connected
to.  Non-hermaphroditic connector schemes do not allow
a 3 way connection.  Attempting to do a work around
would require fabricating a special 3 way harness,
which would not be idiot proof.

This is the fundamental reason for using PP's.

If you never use batteries, then all the other
gendered connector schemes are fair game.

As far as connectors pulling out is concerned:
use a cable clamp to strain relieve the connection.

Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mark Spencer]

I believe the "AMP" connectors you are referring to are what I would call a 
"Cannon" connector.   A good choice for that application IMHO.

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Bob Bownes  wrote:
> 
> Right Tool for the Job. 
> 
> I use barrel connectors when I _want_ the cord to come out when the unit 
> falls off the shelf rather than dangle by the power cable. 
> 
> Locking Molex, or, far better, locking AMP connections when I want the unit 
> to hang by the cord when necessary. 
> 
> We've gone to 9 pin circular locking AMP connectors for rotors on our 2x 
> /year ham radio contest set up on the mountain (take a look for W2SZ / MGEF). 
> Waterproof (not water tight), sturdy, impossible to misalign. And 40' of 
> cable can hang from one for a few minutes if need be. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 09:03, Clint Jay  wrote:
>> 
>> Heh, I was thinking just that when I typed it. They're almost inverted, the
>> pegs are on the plug and the slots are on the socket, the ones I've seen
>> aren't spiral slots, you have to fully engage the plug before you twist.
>> 
>> I like PowerPoles, I like barrel connections, as with so many things it's
>> all about the application, choose the one that works for you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 Jun 2017 1:53 pm, "Bob Bownes"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Locking barrel connectors...
>>> 
>>> Aren't those called BNCs? ;)
>>> 
>>> In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life critical
>>> application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External
>>> Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white) are
>>> glued together rather than using the roll pin.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:
 
 It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
 normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets
>>> are
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mark Spencer]

This good information.  Thanks

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 7:27 AM, Mike Seguin  wrote:
> 
> NL2 etc 40A
> 
> They typically run about $3 per connector. I use them on high power Solid 
> State amps. (VHF and up)
> 
> Mike
> 
>> On 6/22/2017 10:10 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
>> alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
>> bit of over-engineering.  
>> The speakon connectors are interesting...
>> Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>> On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:
>>> For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
>>> sound industry.
>>> 
>>> http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/
>>> 
>>> Mike
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> 
> -- 
> 
> 73,
> Mike, N1JEZ
> "A closed mouth gathers no feet"
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mark Spencer]

For amateur radio use I've never perceived power poles as offering enough of an 
advantage over most other power connectors to make me willing to change my 
other connectors for power poles.  I do own some equipment that came with 
factory installed power pole connectors and I'm generally ok with how they 
work.   Some other amateur radio operators have expressed surprise at my 
extensive use of non power pole connectors and the use of power poles does seem 
common in the amateur radio world.

For time nuts and amateur radio use I've been quite happy with the multi pin 
circular "cannon" style connectors.  That would be my typical choice for a 
"high end" power connector for my various hobbies.  At the "low end" I'm happy 
with two pin "trailer" style connectors but in my experience they are generally 
only available in "pig tail" form.   Both the "cannon" style and "trailer" 
style connectors are readily available to me  as "over the counter" items which 
plays a major role in my affinity towards them.   

Where I used to work "Deutch" connectors were very popular and those are also 
available to me as an "over the counter" item.  I expect I'll start using those 
at some point as well and will probably switch out the bulk of my "trailer" 
style connectors for Detch connectors.

I can also see some merit in using XLR style connectors in some applications.   
I strongly dislike the use of "phono plugs" and PL259 connectors for power 
supply applications.  

All the best 

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 5:57 AM, Wes  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> I said I use PPs but I don't really like them.  If you use a pair as a cable 
> splice then yes, you can tie them together, but in the specific case I 
> referred to, the connection on Elecraft radios, the mate is sticking out the 
> back of a panel and it's impossible to knot the cable or use a zip tie.  I am 
> certainly not the only one who has had issues with this.  And lest I be 
> called an idiot, this is with a factory assembled and supplied pigtail.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wes
> 
> 
>> On 6/22/2017 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>> Wes, Don,
>> 
>> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
>> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
>> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: 
>> in my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
>> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
>> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>> 
>> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I 
>> mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
>> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
>> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>> 
>> /tvb
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi Chris,

On 06/22/2017 04:37 PM, Chris Caudle wrote:

On Thu, June 22, 2017 7:40 am, Mike Seguin wrote:

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional sound
industry.
http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/


Neutrik make a variant specifically created for power connections instead
of speaker connections.  I think they are essentially the same style
design but with different color coding to make them stand out from speaker
connections.  I don't know if the contact plating may be different, or the
spacing different so it can handle higher voltages. Ground mates first
before the two power pins (three pin instead of the four pin Speakon).  UL
listed for up to 250V AC.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/



Speakon and Powercon cannot mate. This is intentional, so you don't feed 
your speaker 240 VAC which would burn the speaker up in most cases.

Same basic ideas thought, but re-applied.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Chris Caudle]

On Thu, June 22, 2017 7:40 am, Mike Seguin wrote:
> For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional sound
> industry.
> http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/

Neutrik make a variant specifically created for power connections instead
of speaker connections.  I think they are essentially the same style
design but with different color coding to make them stand out from speaker
connections.  I don't know if the contact plating may be different, or the
spacing different so it can handle higher voltages. Ground mates first
before the two power pins (three pin instead of the four pin Speakon).  UL
listed for up to 250V AC.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/

-- 
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

Not horribly expensive. Military circular stuff can really burn money 
for you. In that context, the Neutrik stuff is fairly cheap and for many 
purposes good enough.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 06/22/2017 04:14 PM, Clint Jay wrote:

Ooh, I forgot the Neutrik range, haven't used those for years.

Excellent quality and not horrifically expensive

On 22 Jun 2017 3:11 pm, "Clay Autery"  wrote:


OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
bit of over-engineering.  

The speakon connectors are interesting...

Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
sound industry.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/

Mike



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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

The Powerkon variant, which does not mate with Speakon, is what is good 
for AC, and found use in the medicine world, as it does not 
self-disconnect like IEC-outlets tend to do (yeah, I know about securing 
them and I've seen it missused many times but I made sure we have such 
securing on our products).


Speakon for power would however be useful for DC.

It used to be that speakers where connected using the XLR range of 
connectors (not only the 3 pin XLR connector, but larger sized 
variants). Those connectors can handle power and current nicely too, but 
there can be better choices and that's where the Speakon comes in for 
the speaker-feed, which got much handier.


Cheers,
Magnus - former PA-system engineer

On 06/22/2017 02:40 PM, Mike Seguin wrote:

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional sound
industry.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/

Mike

On 6/22/2017 8:29 AM, Clint Jay wrote:

It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and
sockets are
compatible with non locking equivalents too.

Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.

On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:


Moin,

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
Clay Autery  wrote:


TVB for the win!  

Can we please let it go here?
Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?


Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.

I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
in a proper housing.

Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.

So, please keep it comming!

 Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mike Seguin]

NL2 etc 40A

They typically run about $3 per connector. I use them on high power 
Solid State amps. (VHF and up)


Mike

On 6/22/2017 10:10 AM, Clay Autery wrote:

OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
bit of over-engineering.  

The speakon connectors are interesting...

Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
sound industry.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/

Mike



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--

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
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[time-nuts] How to love your DC Barrel connectors

[James Robbins]

I forgot to mention in my last post that Switchcraft offers barrel connectors 
with a screw collar which will mate with their female jacks and holds the 
connector fast to the chassis.  No pulling out.  Of course, you would need to 
change the plug on the power supply to that one and replace the jack.

Jim Robbins
N1JR
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clint Jay]

Ooh, I forgot the Neutrik range, haven't used those for years.

Excellent quality and not horrifically expensive

On 22 Jun 2017 3:11 pm, "Clay Autery"  wrote:

> OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
> alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
> bit of over-engineering.  
>
> The speakon connectors are interesting...
>
> Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:
> > For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
> > sound industry.
> >
> > http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
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[time-nuts] How to love your Power Poles.

[James Robbins]

I’ve used Power Poles for some years.  I have a proper crimper intended for PP. 
 Color coding is very useful.  

I think the complaints about them are due to two things:  (1) improper crimping 
of the contacts and (2) heavy gauge wire.  

The PP15/30/45 use the same plastic housing while changing the size of the 
contact.  A wire gauge suitable for 30 to 45 amps is quite large physically and 
puts a great deal of mechanical strain on the plastic connectors.  So, when 
such a gauge of wire moves (or doesn’t move), it tends to disconnect the 
plastic housings.  If the connections are from one set of wires to another, a 
two prong plastic jumper plug can successfully hold the four connectors 
together through the mating holes in the pair during movement.  

The problem is that when one set of connectors is mounted in a chassis, it is 
often not really possible to use a two prong plug (or Ty-Wrap) to physically 
hold them together.  Move the chassis and if the wire doesn’t want to follow, 
you get disconnected.

Two solder lugs mounted to the chassis and a few small Ty-Wraps will fix most 
of this “heavy wire” issue.

Jim Robbins
N1JR

PS:  Make up a pair of PP with an LED to test your future PP builds.
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
bit of over-engineering.  

The speakon connectors are interesting...

Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:
> For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
> sound industry.
>
> http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/
>
> Mike
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bob Bownes]

Right Tool for the Job. 

I use barrel connectors when I _want_ the cord to come out when the unit falls 
off the shelf rather than dangle by the power cable. 

Locking Molex, or, far better, locking AMP connections when I want the unit to 
hang by the cord when necessary. 

We've gone to 9 pin circular locking AMP connectors for rotors on our 2x /year 
ham radio contest set up on the mountain (take a look for W2SZ / MGEF). 
Waterproof (not water tight), sturdy, impossible to misalign. And 40' of cable 
can hang from one for a few minutes if need be. 




> On Jun 22, 2017, at 09:03, Clint Jay  wrote:
> 
> Heh, I was thinking just that when I typed it. They're almost inverted, the
> pegs are on the plug and the slots are on the socket, the ones I've seen
> aren't spiral slots, you have to fully engage the plug before you twist.
> 
> I like PowerPoles, I like barrel connections, as with so many things it's
> all about the application, choose the one that works for you.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 Jun 2017 1:53 pm, "Bob Bownes"  wrote:
>> 
>> Locking barrel connectors...
>> 
>> Aren't those called BNCs? ;)
>> 
>> In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life critical
>> application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External
>> Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white) are
>> glued together rather than using the roll pin.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
>>> normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets
>> are
>>> compatible with non locking equivalents too.
>>> 
>>> Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
>>> current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.
>>> 
 On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:
 
 Moin,
 
 On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
 Clay Autery  wrote:
 
> TVB for the win!  
> 
> Can we please let it go here?
> Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?
 
 Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
 electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
 days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
 But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
 I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
 quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
 when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
 better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
 which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
 supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.
 
 I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
 as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
 poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
 all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
 And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
 But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
 in a proper housing.
 
 Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
 the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.
 
 So, please keep it comming!
 
   Attila Kinali
 --
 It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
 the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
 use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
>>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

There are some really nice aircraft grade connectors that only cost about $250 
each (as in
$500 a pair)  that take care of all sorts of issues :)

For my money, Power Poles do just fine.

Bob

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> 
> Wes, Don,
> 
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
> 
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
> they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
> 
> /tvb
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clint Jay]

Heh, I was thinking just that when I typed it. They're almost inverted, the
pegs are on the plug and the slots are on the socket, the ones I've seen
aren't spiral slots, you have to fully engage the plug before you twist.

I like PowerPoles, I like barrel connections, as with so many things it's
all about the application, choose the one that works for you.



On 22 Jun 2017 1:53 pm, "Bob Bownes"  wrote:

> Locking barrel connectors...
>
> Aren't those called BNCs? ;)
>
> In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life critical
> application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External
> Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white) are
> glued together rather than using the roll pin.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:
> >
> > It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
> > normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets
> are
> > compatible with non locking equivalents too.
> >
> > Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
> > current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.
> >
> >> On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:
> >>
> >> Moin,
> >>
> >> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
> >> Clay Autery  wrote:
> >>
> >>> TVB for the win!  
> >>>
> >>> Can we please let it go here?
> >>> Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?
> >>
> >> Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
> >> electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
> >> days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
> >> But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
> >> I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
> >> quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
> >> when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
> >> better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
> >> which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
> >> supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.
> >>
> >> I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
> >> as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
> >> poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
> >> all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
> >> And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
> >> But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
> >> in a proper housing.
> >>
> >> Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
> >> the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.
> >>
> >> So, please keep it comming!
> >>
> >>Attila Kinali
> >> --
> >> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> >> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> >> use without that foundation.
> >> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Wes]

Hi Tom,

I said I use PPs but I don't really like them.  If you use a pair as a cable 
splice then yes, you can tie them together, but in the specific case I referred 
to, the connection on Elecraft radios, the mate is sticking out the back of a 
panel and it's impossible to knot the cable or use a zip tie.  I am certainly 
not the only one who has had issues with this.  And lest I be called an idiot, 
this is with a factory assembled and supplied pigtail.


Regards,

Wes


On 6/22/2017 12:19 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Wes, Don,

I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used them 
for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in my 
home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, reliable, 
genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 5V, 12V, 24V, 
and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.

What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
square or figure 8 knot on the cables.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Mike Seguin]

For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional sound 
industry.


http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/

Mike

On 6/22/2017 8:29 AM, Clint Jay wrote:

It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets are
compatible with non locking equivalents too.

Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.

On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:


Moin,

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
Clay Autery  wrote:


TVB for the win!  

Can we please let it go here?
Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?


Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.

I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
in a proper housing.

Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.

So, please keep it comming!

 Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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--

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bob Bownes]

Locking barrel connectors...

Aren't those called BNCs? ;)

In one of my other lives, I see Power Poles used in a very life critical 
application. They are used to connect pads to Automatic External 
Defibrillators. In that application, the two poles (15A, red & white) are glued 
together rather than using the roll pin. 

Bob

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 08:29, Clint Jay  wrote:
> 
> It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
> normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets are
> compatible with non locking equivalents too.
> 
> Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
> current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.
> 
>> On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:
>> 
>> Moin,
>> 
>> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
>> Clay Autery  wrote:
>> 
>>> TVB for the win!  
>>> 
>>> Can we please let it go here?
>>> Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?
>> 
>> Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
>> electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
>> days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
>> But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
>> I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
>> quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
>> when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
>> better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
>> which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
>> supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.
>> 
>> I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
>> as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
>> poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
>> all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
>> And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
>> But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
>> in a proper housing.
>> 
>> Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
>> the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.
>> 
>> So, please keep it comming!
>> 
>>Attila Kinali
>> --
>> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
>> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
>> use without that foundation.
>> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clint Jay]

It is possible to get hold of locking barrel connectors, they insert as
normal and a quarter twist fastens them in place. The plugs and sockets are
compatible with non locking equivalents too.

Of course they're not great for applications that need a decent amount of
current and other disadvantages as noted elsewhere.

On 22 Jun 2017 1:11 pm, "Attila Kinali"  wrote:

> Moin,
>
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
> Clay Autery  wrote:
>
> > TVB for the win!  
> >
> > Can we please let it go here?
> > Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?
>
> Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
> electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
> days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
> But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
> I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
> quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
> when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
> better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
> which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
> supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right.
>
> I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
> as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
> poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
> all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
> And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
> But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
> in a proper housing.
>
> Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
> the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.
>
> So, please keep it comming!
>
> Attila Kinali
> --
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> use without that foundation.
>  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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[time-nuts] Power Pole connectors, was =>Re: Charles Wenzel GPSDO

[Graham]

I first ran into Power Pole connectors over 20 years ago. They were 
marketed by someone (I forget who) to the fledgling radio control 
electric plane/car/boat communities. The advertisements had some wording 
to the effect of "triple silver plated" and other techno babel. They 
worked well in this application, good power handling, low contact 
resistance, quick plug and play, polarized (etc). They sold under the 
brand name of Sermos but were really just Anderson Power Pole connectors.


Amateur radio operators discovered them sometime later and for much the 
same reasons they too started to adapt and use them. It is the same kind 
of discussion as VHS vs Betamax, popular choice is not always driven by 
real merit.


There is some history on the Anderson web page:

http://www.andersonpower.com/us/en/about/corporate-history.aspx

It seems to me that the Power Pole connectors were never really intended 
for use in way that the RC crowd and radio amateurs tend to use them. 
They work, there are better choices, and there are far worse choices.


cheers, Graham ve3gtc



On 2017-06-22 04:29, Don Lewis wrote:

I couldn't agree more!

I have converted loads of equipment to the so-called 'standard' Power 
Pole.


What a disappointment.  IMO, they are poorly designed and ineffective. 
Sure, they offer commonality, but at what cost?


The DO come apart easily, and if the radio (equipment) happens to be 
on, voltage spikes (pulses) can be induced, causing intermittent 
operation (resetting memories) or death to the unit.


Like Lemmings over a cliff...  they are used.

I really do not like these connectors.

Don
N5CID




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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Attila Kinali]

Moin,

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:27 -0500
Clay Autery  wrote:

> TVB for the win!  
> 
> Can we please let it go here?
> Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?

Actually, I read it with interest. I am designing quite a bit of
electronics. A lot of it is single use, then "throw-away" these
days so long running times are not that much of an issue.
But selecting the right power connector is always a problem
I face. I often choose the 5.5x2.5mm barrel plugs, as they are
quite common on power supplies, but they are kind of suboptimal
when it comes to retentiony The Kycon 4-pole plug is slightly
better, but every and each power supply has a different pinout,
which means that I either need to design it for a specific power
supply or add 8 diodes to get the polarity right. 

I pondered a couple of times to use Molex Micro-fit connectors,
as they are cheap, locking and available in almost any number of
poles. The current and voltage rating hare high enough for almost
all needs (but not enough for 240V mains, even if it's rated 300V!).
And incidentally the crimping tool doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
But it's not really a connector one wants to use to power a device
in a proper housing.

Reading on what other people are using and what advantages/disadvantages
the different power plugs have is quite interesting for me.

So, please keep it comming!

Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Tim Shoppa]

Whoops. Since Tom invited us to this off topic discussion, my two minor 
complaints about PowerPoles:

1: No make-first for ground. This is actually alleviated by other Anderson 
connector styles - in the 15A range they have a make first pin (which breaks 
the hermaphodicity). And in the big-boy multi hundred amp range they use a 
secondary make-last set of contacts to authorize application of power by the 
source.

Without a make first for ground you worry that some flimsy signal ground might 
be asked to carry 30Amps.

2: Not locking. Well at least we aren't going to be dangling a piece of 
equipment falling off edge of bench by the power pole.

Despite the above two caveats I don't have anything better. Molex connectors 
aren't really locking either and the certainly don't last at their rated 
current when exposed to an automotive or outdoor environment.

Tim N3QE

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 7:13 AM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> 
> One of the complaints, was that 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 3:19 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>> Wes, Don,
>> 
>> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
>> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
>> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: 
>> in my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
>> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
>> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>> 
>> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I 
>> mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
>> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
>> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>> 
>> /tvb
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

Not sure how "idiot proof" became a desirable engineering goal.

I've always favored allowing the natural self-cleaning of the gene pool
to progress normally.
We are protecting the species to death.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 3:07 AM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> They aren't idiot proof though.
>
> I've seen them assembled backwards so that the contact occurred on the flat 
> springs with predictable results. 
>
> Bruce
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

TVB for the win!  

Can we please let it go here?
Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?

I vote no.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 2:19 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> Wes, Don,
>
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
> they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>
> /tvb
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Majdi S. Abbas]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:19:33AM -0700, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? 
> I mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For 
> critical applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; 
> or just use a square or figure 8 knot on the cables.

While the snap in plastic clips do a nice job of keeping them
mated, the roll pin hole in the connectors is also a perfect size for a 
4" zip tie, if you want to be /sure/ it doesn't go anywhere until you
let it.

I also have had good experiences with the PowerPole series; they
tend to stay put, are self cleaning, and genderless is a huge plus.  I
have seen more traditional DC coaxial connectors fall out than PPs.
And I've seen a lot more cracked Molex connectors, or Molex pins backed
out of housings.  As common DC connectors go, they're just fine, and a 
lot easier to work with than some of the newer alternatives.

--msa
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Bruce Griffiths]

They aren't idiot proof though.

I've seen them assembled backwards so that the contact occurred on the flat 
springs with predictable results. 

Bruce

> 
> On 22 June 2017 at 19:19 Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> 
> Wes, Don,
> 
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
> 
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I 
> mean, they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
> 
> /tvb
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Tom Van Baak]

Wes, Don,

I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used them 
for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in my 
home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, reliable, 
genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 5V, 12V, 24V, 
and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.

What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
square or figure 8 knot on the cables.

/tvb

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