[time-nuts] Weird Stuff WareHouse shutting down

[Jeff Woolsey]

Geez.  The Agilent IEEE-1588 units I mentioned a month or two ago were
the last things I bought there.


> There is one crazy place down in northern LA. Some what hard to get to but
> my god the stuff. Overwhelming. They dicker also. Nothing like a tough
> bargain was there 3 years ago.

I happen to have returned from a family spring break in LA/SD just
today.  Yesterday I visted C surplus in Duarte and picked up a couple
items, one was way-underpriced.  This morning I was at APEX Electronics
in Sun Valley.  Overwhelming is right.  Being where they are in LA they
have a fair amount of prop business.   Imagine the backroom at
WeirdStuff. Now imagine ther same thing, only open to the sky, out
back.  I inquired about a couple items near the front, but didn't have
room in the car (or my wallet) for them.  The Yelp reviews are accurate.

-- 
Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage
"Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire

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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for IEEE-488 codes and formats for Datum 9700AT Programmable Time System

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Actually the manual is moot on any sort of remote control. The RS-232 section 
refers you to an insert 
in the back of the manual. I’d guess that the 488 stuff was done the same way. 

Nasty question: Are you sure you have the 488 option installed?  It would not 
be the first piece of gear 
produced that never really got a 488 firmware version …..

Bob

> On Apr 7, 2018, at 11:11 PM, Tom Leedy via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi:
>  
> I am looking for the IEEE-488 codes and formats for a Datum 9700AT 
> Programmable Time System.  The 9700AT is a 1U time generator and translator 
> with slots in the back that can accept option cards with various 
> functionalities such as -488 and RS-232 interfaces, GPIO, and tape searches.  
> What I need is the character strings to output the time for the -488 
> interface.  The manual for the unit is here: 
> http://www1.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-manual/man-9700at-9710.pdf
> However, it is silent on the details of the -488 interface.
>  
> Any help would be appreciated and feel free to contact me offline.
>  
> Many thanks!
>  
> Tom Leedy
> Clarksburg, MD
>  
>  
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Re: [time-nuts] Help improving impedance measurement by having a better clock

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

I’m not at all sure that the clocks will really get into the measurements. The 
PLL does 
have jitter, but it has zero frequency error. 

One way to get around the whole issue is to use an outboard device with its own 
clock. 
400 KHz is a bit high for the integrated audio ADC / DAC parts. Drop down a bit 
and 
they will do quite well. Interface with an I2S port and away you go.

That said, are you concerned about frequency error or jitter? If it’s frequency 
error, you 
can get that pretty well a number of ways. The gotcha is an accurate reference. 
A GPSDO
is by far the cheapest way to solve that problem.

If you are concerned about jitter, the next question is: over what range? It is 
reasonable 
to guess that the PLL follows the input to a pretty good degree for long time 
periods. At
some point the PLL loop filter allows it to move around a bit. The issue here 
is that the loop 
filter likely is in the audio range. You are after jitter at time periods << 1 
second. That gets
a bit gear specific. You also are after numbers in the nanosecond (or sub 
nanosecond) range.
That increases the complexity. 

So - what are you after? 

Bob

> On Apr 7, 2018, at 9:54 PM, Daniel Mendes  wrote:
> 
> I´m a long time time-nuts lurker (I posted here just a dozen times). I make
> a few impedance measurement systems for material analysis (i´m a single man
> shop doing custom hardware for clients). Usually they´re based around a
> STM32F4 / F7 microprocessor: DAC generates sine signal (1-400KHz), ADCs
> measure them back, a few calculations later we have modulus / phase. I
> always used internal ADCs and DACs (12 bits each).
> 
> I now want to use external ADCs and DACs with more bits to push the limits,
> but i´m afraid that the poor performance of the STM32 PLL that drives the
> clock will get in the way, so I plan to drive the "load" of both DAC and
> ADCs from an external signal derived from a TCXO using a clock divider.
> 
> To get some sense of how much things are improving (or not) I need to
> somehow measure these clocks and get a meaningfull measurement about how
> good (or bad) they are.
> 
> The tools I have are a Hameg HM8123 with a 10MHz OCXO I shoehorned inside
> and a Picotest U6200A with original OCXO. I can log period information from
> both using serial/USB port. I can make a histogram of the data. I don´t
> have any better idea about what to do and would like to hear from you :)
> 
> Daniel
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[time-nuts] Looking for IEEE-488 codes and formats for Datum 9700AT Programmable Time System

[Tom Leedy via time-nuts]

Hi:
 
I am looking for the IEEE-488 codes and formats for a Datum 9700AT Programmable 
Time System.  The 9700AT is a 1U time generator and translator with slots in 
the back that can accept option cards with various functionalities such as -488 
and RS-232 interfaces, GPIO, and tape searches.  What I need is the character 
strings to output the time for the -488 interface.  The manual for the unit is 
here: 
http://www1.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-manual/man-9700at-9710.pdf
However, it is silent on the details of the -488 interface.
 
Any help would be appreciated and feel free to contact me offline.
 
Many thanks!
 
Tom Leedy
Clarksburg, MD
 
 
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[time-nuts] Help improving impedance measurement by having a better clock

[Daniel Mendes]

I´m a long time time-nuts lurker (I posted here just a dozen times). I make
a few impedance measurement systems for material analysis (i´m a single man
shop doing custom hardware for clients). Usually they´re based around a
STM32F4 / F7 microprocessor: DAC generates sine signal (1-400KHz), ADCs
measure them back, a few calculations later we have modulus / phase. I
always used internal ADCs and DACs (12 bits each).

I now want to use external ADCs and DACs with more bits to push the limits,
but i´m afraid that the poor performance of the STM32 PLL that drives the
clock will get in the way, so I plan to drive the "load" of both DAC and
ADCs from an external signal derived from a TCXO using a clock divider.

To get some sense of how much things are improving (or not) I need to
somehow measure these clocks and get a meaningfull measurement about how
good (or bad) they are.

The tools I have are a Hameg HM8123 with a 10MHz OCXO I shoehorned inside
and a Picotest U6200A with original OCXO. I can log period information from
both using serial/USB port. I can make a histogram of the data. I don´t
have any better idea about what to do and would like to hear from you :)

Daniel
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[time-nuts] Meinberg (Rode & Schwartz), ED170MP GPS Receiver

[Time]

Does anyone have any information for the Meinberg (Rode & Schwartz), ED170MP
GPS Receiver?

 

Thanks

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[time-nuts] Datum/Exactime ET6000/9390-6000 Firmware

[ziggy9+time-nuts]

I’m resurrecting a 9390-6000 with TCXO and am trying to get the proper firmware 
installed. I have the files from KO4BB and have programmed all of them into 
different chips. The DT101 file which is for TCXO, is apparently corrupt. The 
unit will not boot. The DT102 and DT103 files will boot, but they are for OCXO 
and Rb. I need the DT101 file or similar for TCXO.

BTW, I have two other firmware files, DT813MP and a DT10054V10 which also boot, 
but which are also for the wrong oscillator types.

Has anyone actually used the 101 file? Or have a different TCXO ROM dump? 

Thanks!

Paul
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Jeremy Nichols]

HSC (Halted) was there in February. Then again, so was WeirdStuff, so
anything is possible.

Jeremy


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 4:01 PM Gary E. Miller  wrote:

> Yo Richard!
>
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 14:17:42 -0700
> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  wrote:
>
> > On 4/7/2018 10:54 AM, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > Sad news.  Weird Stuff, Haltek, and Halted were integral parts of
> > > the Silicon Valley ecosystem.
> >
> > Are you saying Halted is gone?
>
> Dunno, sorry to mislead, I don't live there anymore.  I just meant they
> were, as a group, vital to the local culture at that time.
>
> There web site is still up:  http://halted.com/
>
> RGDS
> GARY
> ---
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
> g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>
> Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
> "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
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Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

[Esa Heikkinen]

Philip Jackson kirjoitti:


It's been a while since I last played with a TS2100 given the roll over issue, but IIRC 
the "lock" LED is an indication that you
have more than a specified number of satellites (four sounds familiar) with a 
signal reading above a certain threshold.  I don't
think it means oscillator discipline lock.


No, TRACKING indicator is for that and LOCK indicator means that PPS is 
within 1 microsecond of UTC.


--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

[Esa Heikkinen]

Hi!

I have TS2100 which I modified from TCXO to OCXO. I have the 'offical' 
MTI OCXO, which I bought from someone on this board. I have also 
replaced the GPS unit to the HEOL Design model, which was required to 
get correct time at all. It's also much more accurate than the original 
Trimble.



Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on
the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from
what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are
my current numbers:


If I turn off the unit and the OCXO is totally cooled down then it might 
need even 2-3 hours before getting the LOCK indicator on again! So 
please be patient.


According to my measurements the LOCK indicator will turn on when the 
PPS has gone within 1  microsecond of UTC. But it's not fully locked 
even at this point! With HEOL Design GPS unit it will end up within 50 
nanoseconds of UTC, but that requires even more time.


If you have trouble with locking you should compare the PPS with 
oscilloscope with some other receiver (for example Thunderbolt) or maybe 
you could 'steal' the PPS from the internal GPS and compare it with 
output. You should see it trying to reach the correct PPS and if it 
passes it at startup, it should change the direction and finally settle 
near the PPS input. In case of trouble you could also try with different 
A/D values manually and see what they do.



root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2


That cannot be correct: Value is too low, near zero volts perhaps and it 
might be clipped. Looks like it has drived itself to the lower limit 
without getting correct feedback. This is a clear sign that clock 
steering is not working at all.


From my unit:
1 ? tim
2 ? utils
3 ? tfp 0
0xb676


root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965


4 ? tfp 6
KM = 0.9994965


root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965


5 ? tfp 7
KO = 0.9994965


root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a


6 ? gain
gain now:-20


root eng eeprom info -- returned 0024


Same here. Please note that to enable any eeprom writes you must close 
JP4 temporary.


By the way: you don't need to start every command with 'root'. It just 
resets the menu structure back start every time, which sounds 
impractical. You gan enter the menus, type '?' to see the available 
commands and go back to previous menu level with 'pop' command.



Any thoughts on why I don't have a lock as yet?


According to A/D value it looks like clock steering is not working at 
all. You should use oscilloscope to find out if A/D values have any 
effect at all.


If you have rubidium or other kind of 10 MHz source put it to one trace 
of oscilloscope and TS2100 10 MHz output to another. Then try with 
different A/D values manually and see if it's even possible to get waves 
syncronized. If it's not possible with any A/D value then it will never 
lock, perhaps your OCXO is not compatible.


--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[paul swed]

Like most of you I also visited these places and have dragged back and
shipped lots of "Weird stuff". Even smaller parts through airport security.
The oddest thing was 3/4" cable TV hardline connectors and there was no
issue at all.
It always made it fun to go on a business trip to the area and always slip
a bit of time into visit the places.
There may still be two left at this point. Electronic Surplus Sales or ESS
and do not recall the name of the other. But do know its location be heart.
I can say that in the 70s they really had an effect on my overall career.
Piles of computer stuff and much else. Buy it by the pound. Think it was
Mikes surplus by the Oakland airport. Long gone and one up in Berkley.

There is one crazy place down in northern LA. Some what hard to get to but
my god the stuff. Overwhelming. They dicker also. Nothing like a tough
bargain was there 3 years ago.


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Over the years, this has been the fate of a *lot* of surplus / goodie
> outfits. They have
> a “deal” on some property and that runs out. Sometimes it’s a sale with
> the neighborhood
> improving. Other times it’s the roof needing repairs and nobody sees the
> need to do them
> until it is way to late ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 6, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Lane 
> wrote:
> >
> > Fellow techies,
> >
> >   I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird Stuff
> > Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday, 9-Apr-18.
> >
> >   It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
> > newsletter, verbatim.
> >
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > April 6, 2018
> >
> > To Weirdstuff Customers,
> >
> > Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be closing
> > its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
> > estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large amount
> > of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
> > for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as soon
> > as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
> > inventory and many of our assets to Outback Equipment of Morgan Hill.
> > The transfer of inventory and assets will take place on April 9, 2018;
> > at that time Weirdstuff Warehouse will cease to do business.
> >
> > Even though Weirdstuff is closing we will retain ownership of the
> > Corporation, trademark, and domain names. We hope to handle these
> > entities and wind down the corporation before year end.
> >
> > Many of you have been loyal customers for many years, and we have
> > enjoyed working with you. We thank you for your loyalty and business.
> >
> > For more information, check out our website after Monday, April 9, 2018.
> >
> > WeirdStuff Warehouse
> > 384 W. Caribbean Dr.
> > Sunnyvale, CA 94089
> > (408) 743-5650
> > --
> >
> >   Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto
> >
> > ---
> > Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
> > http://www.bluefeathertech.com
> > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
> > "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
> > ___
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Gary E. Miller]

Yo Richard!

On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 14:17:42 -0700
"Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  wrote:

> On 4/7/2018 10:54 AM, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> >
> > Sad news.  Weird Stuff, Haltek, and Halted were integral parts of
> > the Silicon Valley ecosystem.  
> 
> Are you saying Halted is gone?

Dunno, sorry to mislead, I don't live there anymore.  I just meant they
were, as a group, vital to the local culture at that time.

There web site is still up:  http://halted.com/

RGDS
GARY
---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
"If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin


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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Jeremy Nichols]

Sadness. Fewer and fewer places to buy good "junk." Have not had one in
Santa Rosa since HSC closed. .Was just there in February. Shall miss them.
Morgan Hill is a bit too far south for my occasional trips to San Jose.

Jeremy

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:02 AM Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Over the years, this has been the fate of a *lot* of surplus / goodie
> outfits. They have
> a “deal” on some property and that runs out. Sometimes it’s a sale with
> the neighborhood
> improving. Other times it’s the roof needing repairs and nobody sees the
> need to do them
> until it is way to late ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 6, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Lane 
> wrote:
> >
> > Fellow techies,
> >
> >   I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird Stuff
> > Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday, 9-Apr-18.
> >
> >   It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
> > newsletter, verbatim.
> >
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > April 6, 2018
> >
> > To Weirdstuff Customers,
> >
> > Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be closing
> > its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
> > estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large amount
> > of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
> > for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as soon
> > as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
> > inventory and many of our assets to Outback Equipment of Morgan Hill.
> > The transfer of inventory and assets will take place on April 9, 2018;
> > at that time Weirdstuff Warehouse will cease to do business.
> >
> > Even though Weirdstuff is closing we will retain ownership of the
> > Corporation, trademark, and domain names. We hope to handle these
> > entities and wind down the corporation before year end.
> >
> > Many of you have been loyal customers for many years, and we have
> > enjoyed working with you. We thank you for your loyalty and business.
> >
> > For more information, check out our website after Monday, April 9, 20
> 
> 18.
> >
> > WeirdStuff Warehouse
> > 384 W. Caribbean Dr.
> > Sunnyvale, CA 94089
> > (408) 743-5650
> > --
> >
> >   Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto
> >
> > ---
> > Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
> > http://www.bluefeathertech.com
> > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
> > "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Piezo was in Carlisle rather than Carlyle PA. It was absorbed into the Corning 
/ Oak
empire almost 20 years ago. Corning / Oak amalgamated with Vectron a bit over 
ten
years ago. 

Piezo was the original OCXO supplier on the TBolt boards. If it is a TBolt 
part, just like
the later OCXO’s it will have a pretty large EFC range. That may or may not 
make the
TS2100 happy. 

Bob

> On Apr 7, 2018, at 2:46 PM, Bruce Lane  wrote:
> 
> Fellow Time-Tickers,
> 
>   I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL
> oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by
> the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model
> 2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to
> match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct
> replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage
> is in the 0-5V range.
> 
>   I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root
> eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me
> to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making
> the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing
> here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on
> P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control.
> 
>   Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything
> following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by
> an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive
> commentary for the command itself.
> 
>   Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the
> quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing
> appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get
> this:
> 
> Commands
> 
> network /
> timing /
> serial /
> utility /
> intrinsic help
> 
> 
>   This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note
> the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a
> question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this:
> 
> 
> Commands
> 
> start net interface
> timing tools /
> serial tools /
> eeprom tools /
> spi tools /
> flash tools /
> display tools /
> memory tools /
> intrinsic help
> 
> 
>   Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get:
> 
> 
> Commands
> 
> ethernet address
> board serial number
> gain default
> filter constant
> low filter constant
> precision
> set eeprom
> get eeprom
> read serial eeprom
> write serial eeprom
> tx 16 bits to eeprom
> location for image
> info value
> eeprom_select
> intrinsic help
> 
> 
>   Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the
> command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered
> as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands
> available under whatever section you're in.
> 
>   Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show
> you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng
> eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored
> in the EEPROM.
> 
>   Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about
> changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As
> I recall, other list members have had similar issues.
> 
>   Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get:
> 
> 
> Commands
> 
> tfp data
> jam sync
> force jam
> phase on
> adjust time
> generator offset
> gain adjust
> filter constant
> low filter constant
> diff value
> d/a load
> leap second utc
> reference time
> cmp delay
> intrinsic help
> 
> 
>   Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I
> gor:
> 
> D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178
> 
>   Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and
> behold, when I queried the value again, I got:
> 
> D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x180
> 
>   So -- That's how to set the D/A constant in the beastie!
> 
>   Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on
> the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from
> what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are
> my current numbers:
> 
> root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2
> root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965
> root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965
> root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a
> difference of opinion 

Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 4/7/2018 10:54 AM, Gary E. Miller wrote:


Sad news.  Weird Stuff, Haltek, and Halted were integral parts of
the Silicon Valley ecosystem.


Are you saying Halted is gone?

Last I heard, Halted was for sale because the owners are
retiring.  It could well be the next domino to fall.
They moved a few years ago, and their old bldg has been
torn down, along with the street and the entire neighborhood.
A hundred or so acres scraped.

Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

[Philip Jackson]

Bruce

Thanks for posting your research.

Re. the Lock question.

It's been a while since I last played with a TS2100 given the roll over issue, 
but IIRC the "lock" LED is an indication that you
have more than a specified number of satellites (four sounds familiar) with a 
signal reading above a certain threshold.  I don't
think it means oscillator discipline lock.

So if you haven't changed any of the masks that are used to interpret the data 
coming off the GPS card then I would investigate the
quality of your signal into the receiver.

There's a GPS menu under the TIMING menu that will give you a readout of signal 
strengths.

What antenna are you using and how long and what type of cable is the downlead? 
 Does the antenna have a complete view of the sky?
The default masks assume a low angle of acceptance I believe.

Philip

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 2:46 PM
To: TimeNuts
Subject: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

Fellow Time-Tickers,

I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL
oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by
the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model
2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to
match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct
replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage
is in the 0-5V range.

I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root
eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me
to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making
the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing
here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on
P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control.

Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything
following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by
an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive
commentary for the command itself.

Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the
quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing
appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get
this:

Commands

network /
timing /
serial /
utility /
intrinsic help


This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note
the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a
question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this:


Commands

start net interface
timing tools /
serial tools /
eeprom tools /
spi tools /
flash tools /
display tools /
memory tools /
intrinsic help


Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get:


Commands

ethernet address
board serial number
gain default
filter constant
low filter constant
precision
set eeprom
get eeprom
read serial eeprom
write serial eeprom
tx 16 bits to eeprom
location for image
info value
eeprom_select
intrinsic help


Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the
command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered
as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands
available under whatever section you're in.

Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show
you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng
eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored
in the EEPROM.

Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about
changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As
I recall, other list members have had similar issues.

Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get:


Commands

tfp data
jam sync
force jam
phase on
adjust time
generator offset
gain adjust
filter constant
low filter constant
diff value
d/a load
leap second utc
reference time
cmp delay
intrinsic help


Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I
gor:

D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178

Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and
behold, when I queried the value again, I got:

D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x180

So -- That's how to set the D/A constant in the beastie!

Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on
the front. It's tracking, and the D/A 

[time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration

[Bruce Lane]

Fellow Time-Tickers,

I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL
oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by
the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model
2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to
match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct
replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage
is in the 0-5V range.

I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root
eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me
to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making
the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing
here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on
P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control.

Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything
following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by
an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive
commentary for the command itself.

Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the
quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing
appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get
this:

Commands

network /
timing /
serial /
utility /
intrinsic help


This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note
the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a
question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this:


Commands

start net interface
timing tools /
serial tools /
eeprom tools /
spi tools /
flash tools /
display tools /
memory tools /
intrinsic help


Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get:


Commands

ethernet address
board serial number
gain default
filter constant
low filter constant
precision
set eeprom
get eeprom
read serial eeprom
write serial eeprom
tx 16 bits to eeprom
location for image
info value
eeprom_select
intrinsic help


Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the
command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered
as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands
available under whatever section you're in.

Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show
you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng
eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored
in the EEPROM.

Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about
changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As
I recall, other list members have had similar issues.

Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get:


Commands

tfp data
jam sync
force jam
phase on
adjust time
generator offset
gain adjust
filter constant
low filter constant
diff value
d/a load
leap second utc
reference time
cmp delay
intrinsic help


Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I
gor:

D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178

Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and
behold, when I queried the value again, I got:

D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x180

So -- That's how to set the D/A constant in the beastie!

Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on
the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from
what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are
my current numbers:

root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2
root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965
root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965
root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a
difference of opinion as to whether -20 or 20 should be used. At this
point, I'm tempted to just set it to zero and see what happens).

root eng eeprom info -- returned 0024

Any thoughts on why I don't have a lock as yet?

And -- I hope this helps out others. Thanks much!


-- 
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather Chart traces with Different Colors

[CORNACCHIA via time-nuts]

 Can anybody Explain the operation of the chart in Lady Heather especially the 
colors what they represent.Thank You
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Over the years, this has been the fate of a *lot* of surplus / goodie outfits. 
They have
a “deal” on some property and that runs out. Sometimes it’s a sale with the 
neighborhood
improving. Other times it’s the roof needing repairs and nobody sees the need 
to do them 
until it is way to late ….

Bob

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Lane  wrote:
> 
> Fellow techies,
> 
>   I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird Stuff
> Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday, 9-Apr-18.
> 
>   It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
> newsletter, verbatim.
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 
> April 6, 2018
> 
> To Weirdstuff Customers,
> 
> Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be closing
> its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
> estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large amount
> of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
> for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as soon
> as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
> inventory and many of our assets to Outback Equipment of Morgan Hill.
> The transfer of inventory and assets will take place on April 9, 2018;
> at that time Weirdstuff Warehouse will cease to do business.
> 
> Even though Weirdstuff is closing we will retain ownership of the
> Corporation, trademark, and domain names. We hope to handle these
> entities and wind down the corporation before year end.
> 
> Many of you have been loyal customers for many years, and we have
> enjoyed working with you. We thank you for your loyalty and business.
> 
> For more information, check out our website after Monday, April 9, 2018.
> 
> WeirdStuff Warehouse
> 384 W. Caribbean Dr.
> Sunnyvale, CA 94089
> (408) 743-5650
> -- 
> 
>   Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto
> 
> ---
> Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
> http://www.bluefeathertech.com
> kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Gary E. Miller]

Bruce!

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:24:59 -0700
Bruce Lane  wrote:

>   I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird
> Stuff Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday,
> 9-Apr-18.

Sad news.  Weird Stuff, Haltek, and Halted were integral parts of
the Silicon Valley ecosystem.

RGDS
GARY
---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
"If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
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Re: [time-nuts] Environmental sensor recommendations

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Just to be very clear about this issue:

Your room temperature “moves” at a rate dimensioned in degrees / hour (like
2 degrees / hour) and the period should be out in the half hour to couple of 
hours range. Put another way, it’s a 1,800 to > 5,000 second sort of thing. 

Operating with typical loop parameters, a TBolt is locked to GPS past a few 
hundred seconds. The OCXO simply follows whatever the GPS happens to
suggest is correct. The temperature effects (whatever the source) are past
the GPS cutover point. 

Unless you are running the TBolt into something other than an OCXO, the 
loop will take out *any* of the temperature impacts on the output of the 
device. 
That’s just the way a control loop works. It’s how it was designed to work. It
also is (most likely) why none of this bothered the original design team. 

In holdover, you will see / do see / can see the impact of temperature. The
gotcha there is that the TBolt has a temperature sensor on it. In holdover 
that sensor “corrects” the EFC voltage. To the degree this process works, 
it takes out any temperature impact in holdover. Again, it’s probably why 
the original design team felt things were ok.

So, why when you change this or that (like to a different OCXO) does the 
temperature sensitivity plot change? Well, if the DAC / reference is the source
of the error *and* you reduce the sensitivity of the OCXO, the temperature
impact *is* reduced. Go to something like a normal 10811 with a 1x10^7 etc
range and the impact should go down by more than an order of magnitude. 
LH is *not* lying to you…..

What is a problem: You look at the plot on LH and conclude that the TBolt
is wandering around with temperature changes. That’s not what it’s telling you.
The only thing LH *can* observe with just a TBolt are variations that have 
been corrected for by the control loop. If the loop does not correct for them,
the DAC does not change, and LH has nothing to go on. With no data
to indicate a change, LH reports that nothing has happened. Again it’s not
lying to you. It simply can only do just so much with the information it has. 

None of this is to say that the various effects are un-interesting. They are 
fun to watch. What would be more interesting would be to be able to dig
a bit deeper. We already can go a lot further into a TBolt than any of the 
other commercial units. Complaining that we can’t go further is … well …
this is TimeNuts …. 

Bob

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 AM, ew via time-nuts  wrote:
> 
> How did you measure temperature sensitivity
> Bert Kehren
>  
> In a message dated 4/6/2018 3:40:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> hol...@hotmail.com writes:
> 
>  
> I replaced the OCXO on one of my Thunderbolts with an Oscilloquartz 8663 and 
> the temperature sensitivity went down by about 2/3, so I always assumed the 
> main contributor was the OCXO. I didn't try mod-ing any other Tbolts. 
> 
> I also tried temperature stabilizing the power supply and it seemed to also 
> have an influence.
> 
> -
> 
>> I respectfully disagree. The OCXO is not the temperature problem with the 
>> Tbolt.
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Re: [time-nuts] QRZed.... OT: 16 Khz VLF, Rugby, England

[John Green]

Fascinating! Thanks for posting.

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 7:19 AM, D. Resor  wrote:

> I am sure some have seen this, however.
>
> 16 Khz VLF, Rugby, England
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unlg2gY2Zrs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
>
> http://hammondorganservice.com
> Hammond USA warranty service
> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
> don't." --Jonathan Winters
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <8bcc9dcc-fa97-b531-d658-2051c094c...@bluefeathertech.com>, Bruce 
Lane writes:

>   Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto

I wonder what happens when the googlers realize that they could have had
WeirdStuff on their campus...?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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[time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[Bruce Lane]

Fellow techies,

I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird Stuff
Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday, 9-Apr-18.

It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
newsletter, verbatim.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

April 6, 2018

To Weirdstuff Customers,

Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be closing
its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large amount
of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as soon
as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
inventory and many of our assets to Outback Equipment of Morgan Hill.
The transfer of inventory and assets will take place on April 9, 2018;
at that time Weirdstuff Warehouse will cease to do business.

Even though Weirdstuff is closing we will retain ownership of the
Corporation, trademark, and domain names. We hope to handle these
entities and wind down the corporation before year end.

Many of you have been loyal customers for many years, and we have
enjoyed working with you. We thank you for your loyalty and business.

For more information, check out our website after Monday, April 9, 2018.

WeirdStuff Warehouse
384 W. Caribbean Dr.
Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(408) 743-5650
-- 

Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto

---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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