[time-nuts] Absolute Time Model 300

2015-09-13 Thread D W
All,

I recently acquired an Absolute Time Model 300 GPSDO. It is a very old unit 
(late 1990s vintage). I have been unable to find any information online about 
it, besides eBay listings.

It does power on, and the digital stuff seems to be working. I have tried 
connecting an antenna but it does not find satellites, or give any indication 
that it's looking really. There is an unknown fault code on the screen (0B00). 
I've done some troubleshooting around the inside, checked voltages etc, and 
can't find anything obvious that is wrong.

Does anyone have any information or documentation on this model? I'd like to 
give it one last shot at working again before I strip it and re-use the 
enclosure for another project.

Thanks

Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

2015-08-15 Thread D W
Nigel, this is very useful. Thanks.

I don't particularly like how the 10MHz test point signal is generated. I made 
my modification easily reversible so that I could change it when I found a 
better way. I will explore the area you describe in your notes.

Best regards 

Dan

 On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:48 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com 
 wrote:
 
 
 I also did a quick write up recently about how I added the 10MHz test point
 output to my REF-1.
 
 
 Hi Daniel
 
 Many thanks for your 10Mhz write up for the REF-1, that's very interesting  
 and a nice bit of detective work.
 
 Back in January I took a quick look at the underside of a  REF-1 board in 
 the area beneath the oscillator and identified what seemed  to be a pick off 
 point very close to the output of the 10MHz doubler.
 I'm pretty sure it was sinusoidal but can't remember for sure now and  I 
 never did find the time to get back to it and check it  properly.
 
 I'll attach a copy of my very brief notes just in case it might  give you a 
 starting point for your search for a cleaner signal but if it  doesn't get 
 through to the list I'll send you a copy direct.
 
 Regards
 
 Nigel
 GM8PZR
 10MHz Pick Off.pdf
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

2015-08-09 Thread D W
 exactly my thinking.
 I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock.
 Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think
 there is
 a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real
 oncore
 or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats
 needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all
 easily do a fixed string.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 
 On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W watsondani...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok,
 and
 doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code
 can be
 developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using
 a ~$1
 chip.
 
 Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should
 still be
 quite easy to do.
 
 A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a
 Jupiter-T
 and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very
 nicely
 but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's
 notes and
 incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup.
 
 Dan
 
 On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Looking forward to the notes.
 Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that
 essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps
 after
 that
 the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with
 the
 correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low
 end
 ones
 will do that stunt very easily.
 That would be pretty sweet.
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 
 On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably
 take a
 few days
 to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions.
 
 What you will need:
 
 1) A working REF-0
 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going
 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do)
 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0
 
 Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time it’s booted, there is
 no
 real
 advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix.
 
 More to follow.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote:
 
 Bob,
 
 I would like that information too please and thank you.
 
 I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second
 REF-0
 that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet
 to
 figure
 out what is needed.
 
 cheers, Graham ve3gtc
 
 
 On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position
 locked in
 and spitting out the right strings.
 That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply
 grabs
 the data off of the string
 as it comes by.
 
 I’ll see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off
 list.
 It’s buried around here somewhere.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva 
 time-n...@tardis.net.br wrote:
 
 Thanks.
 
 I have some Motorola Oncore available.
 
 Can you detail this fairly simple manipulation of the signal
 lines?
 
 Regards,
 
 Edésio
 
 On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box
 discussions.
 All of the work decoding
 the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off
 list.
 
 Simple answer:
 
 Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string
 that
 looks like the output
 of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple
 manipulation
 of the signal lines.
 It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva 
 time-n...@tardis.net.br wrote:
 
 Hello Fellows!
 
 Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without
 GPS,
 as a
 standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to
 configure it?
 
 The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 +
 USD
 52.30
 (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as
 custom
 taxes.
 
 Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive.
 
 Regards,
 
 Edésio
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

2015-08-07 Thread D W
Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, and doesn't 
actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code can be developed 
for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using a ~$1 chip.

Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should still be quite 
easy to do.

A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a Jupiter-T and 
display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very nicely but I 
never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's notes and 
incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup.

Dan

 On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Looking forward to the notes.
 Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that
 essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after that
 the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with the
 correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low end ones
 will do that stunt very easily.
 That would be pretty sweet.
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 
 On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a
 few days
 to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions.
 
 What you will need:
 
 1) A working REF-0
 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going
 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do)
 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0
 
 Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time it’s booted, there is no real
 advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix.
 
 More to follow.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote:
 
 Bob,
 
 I would like that information too please and thank you.
 
 I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second REF-0
 that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet to figure
 out what is needed.
 
 cheers, Graham ve3gtc
 
 
 On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position locked in
 and spitting out the right strings.
 That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply grabs
 the data off of the string
 as it comes by.
 
 I’ll see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off list.
 It’s buried around here somewhere.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva 
 time-n...@tardis.net.br wrote:
 
 Thanks.
 
 I have some Motorola Oncore available.
 
 Can you detail this fairly simple manipulation of the signal lines?
 
 Regards,
 
 Edésio
 
 On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box discussions.
 All of the work decoding
 the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off list.
 
 Simple answer:
 
 Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string that
 looks like the output
 of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple manipulation
 of the signal lines.
 It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva 
 time-n...@tardis.net.br wrote:
 
 Hello Fellows!
 
 Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS,
 as a
 standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to
 configure it?
 
 The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + USD
 52.30
 (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as custom
 taxes.
 
 Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive.
 
 Regards,
 
 Edésio
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Re: [time-nuts] Flashback to 1988 (Austron Catalog)

2015-08-07 Thread D W
Just to follow up, the catalog is now available for download on KO4BB. It is 
listed under Misc Test Equipment - Austron.

Happy reading.

Dan

 On Jul 26, 2015, at 4:23 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I don't think there is one. Watch out there is one located I believe on a
 Chinese site. I was told its actually malware.
 
 On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Dan Watson watsondani...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Sure. I uploaded a scan of the catalog parts to KO4BB. It's listed in
 Recent Uploads awaiting sorting.
 
 As for the 2100F manual, is there a scan available online already?
 
 Dan
 
 On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:03 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
 wrote:
 
 
 In message 
 cac2_fprrd0hpwbrqbejvwsiuaq8afrmn1be25wtdqnh+pxy...@mail.gmail.com
 , Dan Watson writes:
 
 The serial-numbered original manual was also included. Inside the
 plastic
 wrapping was an Austron catalog from 1988, complete with vintage smell!
 It
 is very interesting to look through. Attached is a picture of the spread
 for you Austron fans.
 
 Can we persuade you to all that stuff and uploade it to KO4BB or similar
 ?
 
 I'd love to get a chance to read it...
 
 
 --
 Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
 FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
 Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
 incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN test 6 Aug. Both Dana In. and wildwood nj

2015-08-06 Thread D W
Picking up a strong signal here in North Carolina. My 2100F has been locked to 
Wildwood all morning. I'm using a 5' wire whip and a home brew preamp.

Not hearing Dana yet.

Dan

 On Aug 4, 2015, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 The Wildwood, NJ Transmitter will be on air from 0900 (EDT) 06 August until
 1800 (EDT) 07 August. Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and
 Secondary.
 
 The Dana, IN transmitter will also be on air intermittently during this
 time period. Dana will be broadcasting as 9960 Master and possibly other
 rates and stations as well.
 
 
 So at least 2 GRIs and at different locations. That will make it pretty
 interesting.
 
 Regards
 
 Paul
 
 WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz Square to Sine Wave Conversion

2015-07-17 Thread D W
Hi,

A while back I ordered an item of equipment from a very excellent eBay seller, 
johnkw40. He may be a member of the list, I'm not sure. He included a schematic 
for a low pass filter circuit to filter a 10 MHz square wave to a sine wave.

A quick analysis shows that it is a 5th order chebyshev filter with a cutoff 
frequency of about 14MHz. You could do better, but this filter can be built 
with only five standard value passives, which is quite convenient.

I made a little SMT version of it and ordered the boards on OshPark. It seems 
to work pretty well. The circuit schematic and a screen shot of the response is 
attached. Any comments from the list on how that looks would be welcome.

Dan



 On Jul 16, 2015, at 10:49 AM, skipp Isaham via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com 
 wrote:
 
 re: 10MHz Square to Sine Wave Conversion  
 
 The GPSDO I recently acquired outputs a 10 MHz square wave. I'd like 
 to convert it to a sine wave and I am looking for suggestions and info re 
 any reasonable pre-made circuits and/or boards. No sense reinventing the 
 wheel if I can avoid it. 
 
 Otherwise I will start Sent from my iPhone
 
 Thank you in advance for your replies. 
 
 Regards, 
 
 skipp 
 
 skipp025 at yahoo dot com 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] UrsaNav LORAN next test date

2015-07-16 Thread D W
Paul, thanks for that info. Very interesting. I've been enjoying all of the 
Loran talk on the mailing list recently.

I just picked up a NOS 2100F on eBay to play around with. Maybe I'll be able to 
do something useful with it one day if they continue with eLoran tests.

Dan

 On Jul 15, 2015, at 1:17 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I reached out to UrsaNav and asked when the next test would be.
 They were very responsive.
 
 Wildwood, NJ will be on air from 0900 (local) on 20 July until 0900 (local)
 on 23 July for an eLoran test.
 
 So fire up your Austrons and SRS units.
 
 There will be additional tests and they may be from different sites.
 UrsaNav plans to post the schedules on their site when it firms up.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] Any other useful purpose for Austron 2100F or SRS FS700 receivers in US

2015-07-11 Thread D W
I saw in an article that there is an eLoran site online in NJ. Is that true? 
And if so, is there any backwards compatibility for the old Loran-C units?

Dan


 On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:14 AM, James Robbins jsrobb...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 Does anyone know of any other genuinely useful purpose to which the Austron 
 2100F, SRS FS700, etc receivers can be put in the US since the demise of 
 Loran?  Inquiring minds would like to know.  Jim Robbins, N1JR
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Re: [time-nuts] New wrist watch

2015-07-07 Thread D W
Last night I put it by a window with 12 o'clock facing out as suggested in the 
manual. It says that it synced this morning at 12:04, so I can only assume it 
started at midnight and took four minutes. Spot checking it against the NIST 
website throughout the day, I can't visually see any difference in the edge of 
the second. Very happy with it so far.

But I probably will do a no sync test some time. Leaving it in a metal box away 
from a window at night sounds quite reasonable and easy to set up. I'll do it 
for a week and see what happens.

Dan

 On Jul 7, 2015, at 6:19 AM, Dave Martindale dave.martind...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Two data points for one watch:
 When I bought a Casio PAW-1300, it was about 20 seconds fast.  It said that
 it had last synced on September 24, but that information does not include
 the year.  It was now June 10, so it had been running without a radio sync
 for at least 9 months (though it could have been 9 months plus 1 year, or
 plus 2 years...).  If we assume the delay is only 9 months for 20 seconds
 of error, that's a error of about 2.8 seconds/month or about 1 PPM.
 
 A year later, the same watch got stored in a drawer where there was no
 light and poor radio reception.  After 26 days without a successful radio
 sync, it had gained 2 seconds.
 
 (On the other hand, the watch does *not* handle a leap second when the leap
 second actually occurs.  It simply keeps counting, so it ended up being 1
 second fast after the recent June 30 leap second.  It was correct the next
 morning, after its usual overnight sync to Colorado.)
 
 I normally leave the watch on the window ledge of a window approximately
 facing Colorado (I'm near Toronto).  It gets lots of light to keep the
 battery charged, and reliably syncs every night.  It has become my master
 time source that I sync all my other watches to when adjusting them.
 (Someday I need to build a time display for one of my GPS receivers, but
 the Casio works well enough).
 
 - Dave
 
 On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:45 PM, D W watsondani...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 With my new found interest in time nuttiness I thought I should upgrade to
 a decently accurate watch. I had some features I was looking for and
 settled on a Casio Wave Ceptor. My second choice was an Eco Drive, but the
 Casio had the right mix of features at a good price.
 
 As I was sitting outside reading the manual after buying it, I laid it
 flat on the table and started a manual sync to WWVB. The UI is pretty
 intuitive for having so few buttons and indicators. It quickly told me that
 it had found a stable signal, and about six minutes later it was synced.
 Pretty cool.
 
 Anyone know what the drift is like in this watch if it can't find the
 signal for several days/weeks? I would hope that actual performance is a
 little better than the +/- 15 sec per month stated in the manual. I should
 trap it in a faraday bag for a while to test it...
 
 Dan
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[time-nuts] New wrist watch

2015-07-06 Thread D W
With my new found interest in time nuttiness I thought I should upgrade to a 
decently accurate watch. I had some features I was looking for and settled on a 
Casio Wave Ceptor. My second choice was an Eco Drive, but the Casio had the 
right mix of features at a good price.

As I was sitting outside reading the manual after buying it, I laid it flat on 
the table and started a manual sync to WWVB. The UI is pretty intuitive for 
having so few buttons and indicators. It quickly told me that it had found a 
stable signal, and about six minutes later it was synced. Pretty cool.

Anyone know what the drift is like in this watch if it can't find the signal 
for several days/weeks? I would hope that actual performance is a little better 
than the +/- 15 sec per month stated in the manual. I should trap it in a 
faraday bag for a while to test it...

Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] Performance of 74LVC series ICs

2015-06-01 Thread D W
Thanks for the replies! Very informative.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote:
 
 On Sun, 31 May 2015 14:06:26 -0400
 Dan Watson watsondani...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Has anyone used or experimented with the 74LVC series of ICs? I have found
 them quite useful in projects. Supply voltage of 2-5V, and two inverters or
 a single gate or flip flip in a SOT package. They make for much cleaner
 layouts than large DIPs.
 
 Yes, quite a few of those. After CPLDs and FPGAs replaced all of the
 more complex 74xxx's, people realized that most projects do not need
 4 NAND gates at one spot, but rather single ones here and there
 (a schmitt-trigger for signal conditioning, an AND gate to couple two
 enable lines,...).
 
 I'm wondering if they are acceptable replacements for 74HC, AC, etc in
 timing circuits.
 
 I have never used any of the LVC in a timing circuit, but i would
 guess they are not worse than the AC. Also they have the advantage of
 having single gates per package, which helps minimizing cross coupling
 between different signal paths.
 
 BTW: [1] may contain some interesting data for you. Especially as it
 compares different manufacturers too.
 
 Looking at [2], the ALVC family would probably be also worth a look.
 
Attila Kinali
 
 
 [1] Low Voltage Logic Designers Guide, Ti, 1996
 http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/scba010/scba010.pdf
 
 [2] Logic Guide, Ti, 2014
 http://www.ti.com/lit/sg/sdyu001aa/sdyu001aa.pdf
 
 -- 
  _av500_ phd is easy
  _av500_ getting dsl is hard
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Re: [time-nuts] 53132A Polish UHS Time Base Option Interesting Ovservation

2015-05-12 Thread D W

And this is where one question leads to another. For an oscillator that is 
going to be used at very high velocities and accelerations, like in a missile, 
would it be calibrated somehow under the target G force? Or would you just 
compensate some other way? Or just not worry about it?

Dan

 On May 12, 2015, at 6:51 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 All  OCXO’s are sensitive to acceleration. Gravity is one form of 
 acceleration. A
 sensitivity in the 0.5 to 2 ppb / G is not uncommon. 
 
 Bob
 
 On May 11, 2015, at 9:24 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote:
 
 I recently obtained a 53132A and added the HP Opt 010 High Stability Time
 Base option with a 10811 variant OCXO.
 
 
 
 I left it on for over a week and it, ultimately, seemed to slow down in its
 drift, with the displayed frequency, as it 'read' my GPSDO, slowly
 decreasing, suggesting that the Time Base was, slowly, increasing in
 frequency.
 
 
 
 I then removed the HP option and installed a Polish UHS Time Base option
 with a Morion DOCXO.  After about 72 hours, it seemed to stabilize.  I then
 'calibrated' the 53132A by connecting my GPSDO to Channel 1.  The displayed
 frequency was +/- 1 to 2 mHz of 10.000 000 000 MHz for the past week or so,
 with no drift noticeable.
 
 
 
 I had 'calibrated' the 53132A with it sitting at about +30 degrees, propped
 up on its 'handle' in a 'vertical' position.  I then had occasion to move
 the 'handle' under the unit whereby the unit was 'flat', at which point the
 displayed frequency dropped to 9.999 999 997 MHz, +/- 1 to 2 mHz.  The
 displayed frequency was the same this evening when I came home.  When I
 again 'elevated' the unit by moving the handle to its more 'vertical'
 position, the displayed frequency moved to 10.000 000 000 MHz +/- 1 to 2
 mHz.
 
 
 
 I'm not sure what this means.  
 
 
 
 It is a 'repeatable' observation.  It displayed the lower frequency all day
 and when I 'elevated' the 53132A this evening, the frequency again went to
 10.000 000 000 Mhz.  Is this a 'gravity' effect?  Is this an issue with the
 DOCXO?  Is this an issue with the 53132A?  If I am correct in my
 calculations, the displayed frequency is +/- 1 to 2 parts in 10E-10 of 10
 MHz, assuming my GPSDO is accurate and stable.  Otherwise, the GPSDO and
 53132A 'drift' is exactly the same.
 
 
 
 I would appreciate anyone's thoughts regarding this analysis and observation
 and how to go about 'quantifying' it in a more scientific method, assuming
 it's worth pursuing.
 
 
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 
 
 Joe
 
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