[time-nuts] FW: Instrument BASIC

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Magnus

My memory is a bit faded on this, but the Instrument Basic on the 894xx is 
pretty useful, and I'd recommend making use of it.  Instrument Basic is a 
subset of "Rocky Mountain Basic" which was a very useful programming language, 
especially for instrument control.  "Back in the day", I did some programs for 
customers on the analyzers.  Another notable example was a program that was 
written for performance proofs for ATSC (US digital TV standard) by an engineer 
at Zenith.  It proved quite popular with TV engineers because it pretty much 
automated the setup of the analyzer for these tests.
I don't know if I've still got any programming examples any more again, 
that was a long time ago now!
I also don't remember how difficult it is to add the option to an existing 
analyzer.  Does your analyzer(s) have the option? 

Daun

Daun E. Yeagley, II, N8ASB


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus 
Danielson
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:06 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
Subject: [time-nuts] Instrument BASIC

Fellow time-nuts,

This is a little off the normal time-stuff, but I wonder if people just happens 
to have some suitable input to give.

I have a couple of HP89410A/89441A and would like to see if it would be nice to 
see what could be done using the instrument BASIC. How would I be able to 
enable or install it?

Now, don't even bother to write comments about how you can do better using 
software control from a PC with this and that tool, this is explicitly not part 
of the question.

Cheers,
Magnus
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[time-nuts] Spectrum Analyzer for sale

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi all.  My Agilent E4402B spectrum analyzer is for sale. I bought it new
when I retired from Agilent in 2003 for use mostly for software development
(it was my demo unit).

As you can see from the description, it has quite a few options, including
the support for the 89600 VSA software. (I have written some applications
for that).
I would like to see $15K, but will entertain offers for it. Note that this
was one of the last units built here in the USA before they moved production
to Malaysia.

Thanks

Daun
N8ASB


Agilent ESA-E series Spectrum Analyzer
Product Number: E4402B
Serial Number: US41443072
Host ID: 55D29F84
Firmware Revision: A.14.01
Revision Date: Aug 30 2004 13:39:36
Bootrom Revision:310
ROM Size: 16777216 RAM Size: 33554432

1D6: Time Gated SA
1DR: Narrow Resolution BW
1DS: RF Preamp
B72: Expansion Memory
1DN: 3.0 GHZ TG. 50 Ohm
B7B: TV Trigger
1D5: Hi Stability Freq Ref
231: 89600 VSA Link A.02.00
227: Cable TV Meas. Personality A.02.00


Slot 1: A4H: GPIB  Parallel
Slot 2: Empty
Slot 3: BAA: FM Demod
Slot 4: B7D: DSP with fast ADC
Slot 5: B7E: RF Comms Hardware
Slot 6: Empty



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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?

[Daun Yeagley]

That reminds me of a prank we pulled off in a measurements class in college
many years ago. Of course we were working with galvanometers and standard
cells, and the usual warnings.
We had some cloth insulated hook up wire, so we pulled the wire out and put
part of it back in the insulation so that it looked real, and then shorted
the standard cell with this setup. We waited for the professor to come by
and let him see what we had done.  After he came down off the ceiling, we
pulled the insulation back off so he could see that we hadn't really shorted
it after all.  It's a good thing he had a great sense of humor. (I think he
is the type that would have pulled the same sort of stunt).

Daun

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Jean-Louis Oneto
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:49 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?

I suppose it was to to keep the electrolyt to slam around ;-} ???
Jean-Louis Oneto
- Original Message -
From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?


 Yes, never load a standard cell.

 It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a
 galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam
 around.

 Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been
 shorted for shipping.

 Bill Hawkins


 -Original Message-
 From: Jürg Kögel
 Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM

 A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy
 in Practice
 by Steve Spang. (1975)

 Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells
 only with high ohm null detectors.
 A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to
 the old value!)

 I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today.

 Juerg



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[time-nuts] FW: [Accutrons] clock

[Daun Yeagley]

Here's an interesting item that one of the guys on the Accutron group
posted.  A great Geek item, especially for time nuts.
 
Daun



From: accutr...@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:16 AM
To: Accutrons Group
Subject: [Accutrons] clock


Good morning all,
 
This is a little off topic but it is still about time. One of my kids found
this site. This T-shirt is for the ultimate time person.
http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/TshirtStoreDetail.asp?StoreID=1StyleID
=202
http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/TshirtStoreDetail.asp?StoreID=1StyleI
D=202   a little pricy, but funny. 
 
Dick


Here's a TinyURL version of the link:
http://tinyurl.com/c6dxqj

Daun

 


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Re: [time-nuts] Sound cards

[Daun Yeagley]

Spoil sport!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sound cards

Lux, James P wrote:

 I was amused when the guy at the stereo store tried to sell me on RF
shielded TOSlink cables, claiming it would provide more clarity and
definition in the sound.  Uh-huh..   Sort of like the green marking pen for
the edges of your CDs to reduce internal reflections, etc. (I, of course,
would only use the finest brush made from selected hairs of Tibetan mountain
goats to apply a dye made from chlorophyll molecules selected using an
electron microscope by trained technicians, etc..  A marking pen? My
$14000 speaker cables supported on carefully oriented pure fused silica
supports would wither in shame.)

We have a rule here -- no discussion of audiophile insanity!  You'll thank
me in the end if we avoid a few hundred anecdotes about speaker cable and
$500 knobs. :-)

John

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Re: [time-nuts] Manuals

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Dick

You might try Dave at Artek Media http://www.artekmedia.com/ (or email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]).  He's active on the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list.  I know he has literally *tons*
of HP manuals, because he picked them up from my barn where I've been
storing them since saving them from the dumpster for the Dayton Sales office
several years ago. (they were pitching the entire collection, and I couldn't
bear the thought of loosing all those manuals).  I think they've now found a
good home with Dave, as he seems to really be in the spirit of keeping the
older manuals available.  His prices are pretty reasonable too!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Moore
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:05 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Manuals

Hi, tickers -- I recently picked up an HP 5353A plug-in for my HP 5345A.
It's enroute now and is untested. I hate to pay twice as much for a manual
as I did for the unit, and I really like having docs on stuff. I've visited
all the usual suspects -- Didier, Boat-Anchor, TekNet, etc. -- and have
found nothing. Anybody have one I can copy?

Best,
Dick Moore

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Re: [time-nuts] Manuals

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Dick

I'd go ahead and give him a call.  I know he hasn't had time to go through
everything it was over 60 good sized boxes!  The collection is pretty
much every manual ever up to the early 90's when the edict came down to dump
them. (there used to be a complete set in every HP office, and I guess the
powers that be decided it was to expensive to keep them).
So that's probably your best bet, and I'd give fairly good odds that he's
got it (probably in the to do stack). He's now got enough stuff to scan to
last several years I would think.
I had toyed with the idea of doing something like that myself, but I knew
I'd never get a round tuitt (and I think my buddies that have been prodding
me knew it too).  So finding Dave's operation seemed to be the right thing
to do.

Daun 
N8ASB

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Moore
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:32 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Manuals

On Dec 9, 2008, at 6:20 PM, Daun wrote:

 --

 Message: 5
 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:43:10 -0500
 From: Daun Yeagley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Manuals

 Hi Dick

 You might try Dave at Artek Media http://www.artekmedia.com/ (or email 
 to [EMAIL PROTECTED]).  He's active on the 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] list.  I know he has literally
 *tons*
 of HP manuals, because he picked them up from my barn where I've been 
 storing them since saving them from the dumpster for the Dayton Sales 
 office several years ago. (they were pitching the entire collection, 
 and I couldn't bear the thought of loosing all those manuals).  I 
 think they've now found a good home with Dave, as he seems to really 
 be in the spirit of keeping the older manuals available.  His prices 
 are pretty reasonable too!

 Daun

Thanks, Daun -- I searched Dave's lists but didn't find it, but I have not
asked him about it directly. It may be something he has but has not yet
scanned, so I'll drop him a note. I've done a fair amount of business with
Dave (just got a Fluke 853 book from him two days
ago) and he's top-notch. I also looked at all of his competitors that I am
aware of, and none of them had it either. I figure, if all else fails, go to
time-nuts.

Best,
Dick Moore

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Re: [time-nuts] Sound and time

[Daun Yeagley]

Now *that* sounds like a lot of fun!

Many years ago I was in Beaverton, OR (yeah, TEK land), and there was this
disco called Earthquake Ethel's. I guess they had a pretty fancy sound
system the feature every evening at around 9 pm (don't remember the real
time)... they had an earthquake.  I leave the description to your
imagination!

Also, a lot of years ago (including high school and college), my thing was
to do lights and sound for theater.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:57 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Sound and time


Does a 7 megawatt seismic generator count?  Basically the world's largest
sub woofer...


At 12:16 PM + 10/11/08, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

As former sound technician...

I used to do that stuff too, being the bass player/sound guy in a cheesy bar
band. Loads of fun!

Any more time nuts with sound reinforcement experience?

-- 

--David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
http://www.cathodecorner.com/


_
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of
your life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/
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Re: [time-nuts] Help with HP 8640B generator

[Daun Yeagley]

Actually, amazing that it might seem, even high level managers (like a
division manager) at Agilent only have cubicles.  (usually they are a bit
larger and fancier than the regulars, but finding a real office is
extremely rare. 

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas A. Frank
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:39 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Help with HP 8640B generator

 Trivia:  The engineer who designed that chip for HP 35 years  ago has 
 the cubicle next to me at Agilent Labs!  It was  considered very 
 advanced at the time.
 --
 The cubicle?
 -
 Think of it as many nested boxes, within the building there is a room, 
 within the room there is a cubicle, within the cubicle there is a 
 piece of test equipment, within the test equipment there is a oven 
 enclosure, within the oven enclosure there is a box, within the box 
 there is an oscillator, within the oscillator there is a crystal 
 housing, within the crystal housing there is a chunk o'
 rock, upon which everything rests...


Collapsing down toward infinity.  Fractal engineering at its finest.

Perhaps my experience in engineering for the gov't differs a bit from that
found at such a high end company, but I would have expected that at that
level of seniority, those folks usually rate an office with a door...or is
that sort of thing reserved solely for management?

Tom Frank, KA2CDK



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[time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday

[Daun Yeagley]

Looks like a little OOPS here!
 
Daun


Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday


 
Oops



Sent: Tue 8/19/2008 4:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday



So I jump in my little bird yesterday for a 320 nm hop to a customer
location, and find my GPS just can't get a fix on my position (Flybuddy 820,
Apollo 360).  While a little irritated by this fact, it isn't a critical
piece of a equipment so I flip the power switch off and navigate via VOR,
which delivered me safely and efficiently there and back.



I head back out to the field today to see if I can troubleshoot the issue
(armed with my manual), and find the thing can't keep track of the time.  I
set the time and a little while later it thinks it's Jan 3, 2089 (right time
of day however).   After my tinkering, I call the support line thinking I
have a dead internal battery or something similar.



It turns out every one of these units stopped working sometime Sunday and
they don't fully understand the cause or the fix as of yet.  Good news, I
don't have a malfunctioning unit.  Bad news, it's a brick until something
changes and I get to look at 2 INOP stickers.



They are working with the engineering group that provided the GPS engine for
these units , and asked that I give them a few days and check back on the
progress.   If you have one of these units, expect it isn't functional.  I
will share any news I get.



Scott Hjermstad






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Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday

[Daun Yeagley]

You must not be an aviator.  try nautical mile.  ;-)
Of course you probably are referring to NM.  Have to watch out with this
group!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday

I'm fascinated by the 320 nm flight.

320 billionths of a metre is quite short distance to use a plane.

I would have walked.

Jim


2008/8/20 Daun Yeagley [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Looks like a little OOPS here!

 Daun


 Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:43 PM
 Subject: FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday



 Oops

 

 Sent: Tue 8/19/2008 4:10 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday



 So I jump in my little bird yesterday for a 320 nm hop to a customer 
 location, and find my GPS just can't get a fix on my position 
 (Flybuddy 820, Apollo 360).  While a little irritated by this fact, it 
 isn't a critical piece of a equipment so I flip the power switch off 
 and navigate via VOR, which delivered me safely and efficiently there 
 and back.



 I head back out to the field today to see if I can troubleshoot the 
 issue (armed with my manual), and find the thing can't keep track of 
 the time.  I set the time and a little while later it thinks it's Jan 
 3, 2089 (right time
 of day however).   After my tinkering, I call the support line thinking I
 have a dead internal battery or something similar.



 It turns out every one of these units stopped working sometime Sunday 
 and they don't fully understand the cause or the fix as of yet.  Good 
 news, I don't have a malfunctioning unit.  Bad news, it's a brick 
 until something changes and I get to look at 2 INOP stickers.



 They are working with the engineering group that provided the GPS 
 engine for these units , and asked that I give them a few days and 
 check back on the
 progress.   If you have one of these units, expect it isn't functional.  I
 will share any news I get.



 Scott Hjermstad






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Re: [time-nuts] Anti-Static conductive foam warning

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Nigel

I've seen this happen in some other circumstances too, and one of the worst
ones was for VNA Cal kits.  It really makes a mess, and it's pretty hard to
clean up.
I'm wondering if anyone else who's seen this problem has some advice on a
good way to restore the items. 
It does seem that there are several types of foam (and rubber for that
matter)

Daun
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:12 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Anti-Static conductive foam warning

Apologies to those who might see this on more than one group or list and
apologies again if it's old news to everyone but me, but I did think it
important enough to share.
 
I've just retrieved a pair of ICs that have been dry stored as spares in a
component storage rack since 1979, a long time I know but probably not
unusual for those of us using and maintaining older equipment.
 
These, as I thought anyway, were correctly stored with the pins pressed
into black anti-static foam, the usual stuff that's been used for this
purpose for years.
Unfortunately the foam has broken down into a sticky crumble and the
plating on the IC pins is quite badly corroded, probably to the point  where
they won't take solder. A metal canned crystal lying against the foam has
also corroded at the pont of contact.
I've seen this stuff turn into a gooey mess inside some instrument cases
but hadn't previously even thought about the same thing  happening where
it's used used for component storage.
 
I've checked other trays and whilst not too many used this stuff but  where
they did there's evidence of similar problems.
I've even got a later large component rack, all ok so far but for how
long?, where it was fitted from new to every drawer:-(
 
That's all, just offered as a word of warning to anyone else with
components similarly stored.
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



   
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Re: [time-nuts] PCB for frequency dividers

[Daun Yeagley]

I get the following error: 
File not available. [S1431927605504483a.pdf].

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCB for frequency dividers

For some some images illustrating the intermetallic problem at the
microscopic level see:
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FMAM%2FMAM11_S02%2FS143192
7605504483a.pdfcode=bdfd9822c124e17308c095f29250a990
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FMAM%2FMAM11_S02%2FS14319
27605504483a.pdfcode=bdfd9822c124e17308c095f29250a990


Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR now open for Thunderbolt orders

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Richard

John is on vacation for a few more days, but my understanding is that they
sold out pretty much that first day. (there was a HUGE response!)
I suspect that's why the account info doesn't work now.

Daun 
N8ASB 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Dabney
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 10:48 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] TAPR now open for Thunderbolt orders

Hi John. The user name and password given do not work. I hope someone didn't
screw it up. I would sure like to order one.tnx.de Dick
W5UFZ


  
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Anyone programmed HP 59306A relay actuator (orother old device)?

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi David

You'll need a scope to look at the lines.  If you try reading with a
voltmeter, you'll only get the average value of the data that is being
transmitted.
There are a couple of control line as part of the bus.  The most important
one for our purposes here is the ATN line.  When this line is asserted,
Data on the 8 DATA lines is in what is known as the COMMAND mode. In this
mode, the ASCII code you see make up the commands to do the Unlisten,
Untalk, Listen, and Talk commands and the associated addresses. You
don't need to worry about that stuff. That's what the drivers are for. At
the programming level, all you need to be concerned with is who's talking
(the controller, i.e. the computer), and who's the listener (the 59306). As
an aside, there can be only one talker, but many listeners.  Other
(transparent) details include the handshake lines and some other dedicated
support lines that may or may not be used in any particular scenario.

So again, all you need to do is address the 59306 as a listener, and send
the specific ASCII characters that comprise the command. With this
instrument, since it is so very simple, doesn't even know what to do with
end of line sequences. (CR/LF). It would simply ignore them. (I say this
because most computers customarily send this unless specifically
suppressed).

Hope this helps.  If not enough, I'll have to see if I can dig out some of
the old HPIB tutorials I used to teach from twenty some years ago.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: Dr. David Kirkby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 10:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Anyone programmed HP 59306A relay actuator
(orother old device)?

Daun Yeagley wrote:
 Hi David

 Don't worry about all the level stuff.  That's internal to the box
(59306).
 The only thing you need to worry about is how to generate the proper
 commands on the bus for your particular H/W-S/W combination.
   
But looking at the example program, one sends

* ? to clear all listeners
*  % to listen
* The commands to set relays, such as B123, or A1
* REN=H to reset to local control.

But all 4 combinations have different TTL levels on the control lines.

On my bench multimeter, something as simple as
 
dd=ibdev(0, gpib_address, 0, T3s, 1, 0); /* open a device at address 
'gpib_address' with 3 s timeout. */
ibclr(dd);  /* Clear it */
ibwrt(dd,PRESET,6);  /* Can't recall what this command did on my 
meter, but it works! */
ibwrt(dd,DCV,3); /* Set to DC voltage. Command ends in 3, as DCV is 3 
characters */

will set it to DC voltage. If I want frequency, the last command would be

ibwrt(dd,FREQ,4);  /* ends in 4, as FREQ is 4 characters */

But this HP 59306A relay  actuator will *not* respond similarly if I send

ibwrt(A1,2);  /* Unsuccessfully try to join contacts A-C on relay 1 */

In various attempts, I've managed to get the odd click from the relays, 
but nothing useful is happening. I've got two of these, and neither is 
doing what I expect, so I suspect the units are not faulty, but just my 
bad programming.



 In hopefully simple terms, you need to address the 59306 as a listener,
and
 then send the ASCII string that represents the relay state you need. In
 Didier's example:
   
 1) to turn all channels off, send B123456
 2) to turn channel 1 on: send A1
 

 You don't need (or want an end of line sequence or anything). When done
 sending the command, just unaddress it.
   
Perhaps that is what I am doing wrong. I am not un-addressing it. But 
I've never had to before. I've normally on other instruments just sent 
the command via ibwrt(), then read responses with ibrd(). For this 
instrument, I don't believe there is anything that can be read - you 
can't for example read the state of the relays, so I don't think there 
is any need for using ibrd().

 Hope that removes a bit of fog.

 Daun 

   





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Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto unsubscr...

[Daun Yeagley]

Unfortunately, you guys are missing John's point!

What happens in the scenario that John describes is that AOL will
blacklist his server. If that happens, *any* AOL recipient's mail will be
rejected by AOL and you will NEVER receive the time-nuts mail (if you have
an AOL address!). So that is a very bad thing.
In addition to that, Febo happens to be my mail server (to which I am very
thankful to John for allowing me to do that). If AOL blacklists Febo, that
means that I also will not be able to send email to AOL accounts.  This is a
very bad thing, because not only do I have a lot of friends that use AOL,
but also some business associates. That is very ugly and I know through John
just how bad it is to deal with AOL on this.  They are VERY difficult to
deal with, and when it happened this one time before it took him days to get
it straightened out. AOL does NOT have a sense of humor, and unfortunately,
they are the ones that are in control of the situation.  You have to beg
them to put you back on the whitelist.

So all you AOL folks, please be careful with that spam button!!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:42 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Administrivia: Please don't use the Spam buttonto
unsubscr...

 
In a message dated 14/05/2008 07:16:13 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

writes:

Wouldn't  that be kind of a good thing?  I mean, can the intersection of the
set  of AOL members and the set of folks who can understand what we discuss
here  contain more than a couple of people?  And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing

to
give those folks a good reason to get a REAL ISP and bid AOHell  goodbye?



-
Only a good thing to those not using AOL so hardly a very useful suggestion

is it?
Not that I'm biased of course:-)
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR



   
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Re: [time-nuts] Efratom FRS-C Service Manual.

[Daun Yeagley]

I have a copy of it on my web page:  http://www.yeagley.net/Time-Nuts/

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lin Scott
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:49 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Efratom FRS-C Service Manual.

Does anyone have a Efratom Model FRS-C service manual that I can download or
have photocopied ?. Thanks.
Lin Scott.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3048A system software

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Brooke

That's partially true, but not completely.
I know of some programs where they actually scrambled or deleted the symbol
table, so that all variable names and labels became unreadable.  There are
also CSUBS, which are compiled subroutines. The only way to find out what
happened there is to somehow obtain the original source.
If someone has the secured code, I have (or at least *did*) have a program
that could be used to unsecure it.  If anyone has that code, send it to me
and I'll unsecure it. 

Daun
N8ASB

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:57 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 3048A system software

Hi John:

All HP Rocky Mountain Basic is human readable.  The Protected code that
just 
displays the line number can be converted to readable by toggling a bit in
the 
header of each line.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com/Alpha.shtml  All my web pages listed based on html name
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com
http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Web Cam


John Miles wrote:
 Question -- was the HP 3048A software ever made available as a
 human-readable BASIC program, as the 3047A software was?
 
  It looks like any attempt to write code for the 11848A is going to
require
 a lot of reverse engineering to discover the GPIB commands.  It could save
 me a lot of time if there's a BASIC version out there somewhere.
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual

[Daun Yeagley]

I wouldn't mind finding a copy either.  Any chance someone can post it?

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Javier
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual

Please ignore... already found it :)

Thanks! Regards,

Javier

Javier escribió:
 Hello all,

 I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is 
 the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover 
 several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very 
 grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could 
 send me it.

 Thank you very much. Best regards,

 Javier, EA1CRB

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Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 41, Issue 57

[Daun Yeagley]

Sounds like you need to move!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ronald Held
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:17 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 41, Issue 57

i thought of tha balcony option. The balcony as an overhang which
effectively blots out the other half of ths sky not covered by the
building. I cannot hang any antenna over the railing or on it(in my
lease and enofrce;I asked), plus there are birds and squirrels which
would get into it.
Any other suggestions?



 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:25:14 -0600
 From: Jack Hudler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Upgrading possibilities for more accurate,
precise  stable mark ii
 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

 If you have a porch or balcony, just drilled a 1/4 inch hole through the
 edge of the sliding door frame to handle an external antenna. Hide the wire
 in the carpet edge or behind the baseboard.
 When you leave just caulk up the holes and no one's the wiser. Most of the
 time (well the ones I lived in) apartments have touch up paint kits (or the
 paint codes at the local big box) so you can fill nail holes and such for
 move out.

 I did this at four different apartments and no one ever found it, or if they
 did, didn't care. Most of the time I drilled three holes for coaxial cables
 to DirecTV and 58532A GPS antenna mounted on the back of the DirecTV antenna
 (Note: I never used the thin flat strip to run coax through the door there
 was too much static build up. That being said; it is still a viable option
 for GPS or DirecTV).





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Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

[Daun Yeagley]

There's a nice PDF program called PDF Creator (freeware!) that you install like
a printer.  It will create a PDF of anything you print to it.
Get it at: http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

 Does anyone know how to get a PDF copy of this (or PowerPoint, Word,  etc) so 
 it can be printed out?

Said,

Right click and SaveAs this 7.4 MB PPT file to your PC:

Quartz Resonator  Oscillator Tutorial
http://www.ieee-uffc.org/freqcontrol/tutorials/vig3/vig3.ppt

Then open the 298 page document with PowerPoint and
print as note pages.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

[Daun Yeagley]

Chuck:

HOW TRUE your last sentence!!!   I've had to fight many battles with
presentations used in training classes that were written using whatever font.
Then when you try to present using a machine that doesn't have that particular
font installed, you get a HUGE mess!  We've even tried going to embedding fonts
in the presentations, but even that doesn't always work.
I just did some training for the Air Force, so I had to use one of their
computers, since it was part of a really nice classroom setup complete with rear
projection.  However, they had very few fonts on that machine, and it made some
of this slides, especially ones with formulas on them, total gibberish.  Talk
about throwing you off guard!  I'd review the material in my hotel room the
night before, but when I put the questionable slides up, it would totally
confuse me.  As a result, my student evaluations weren't so hot.  (one commenter
said the instructor seemed like he was winging it).  I might as well have
been!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

Bruce Griffiths wrote:

 I wish somebody could make a pdf of that, I don't have (and don't
 want!) access to Powerpoint[1].
 
 Sure you do, it is called: OpenOffice.org ;-)

 -Chuck Harris
   
 Chuck
 
 That method isnt always very successful especially when newer versions
 of powerpoint are used to generate the slides.
 For this particular powerpoint file OpenOffice renders some text on at
 least one page unreadable.
 
 In the case of html pages (at least with Linux or FreeBSD) converting to
 pdf files can be done by first printing to a postscript file and then
 opening the resultant postscript file with Ghostview and then printing
 it to a pdf file.
 
 Bruce


Hi Bruce,

The difference you are seeing is because there is no equivalent font, on
your system, to the microsoft patented font specified in this Powerpoint
document.  OO.org makes a best guess as to what the document wanted, and
uses that for display.

Unfortunately, the best guess is about 5% larger in size.

This comes about because, Microsoft apparently didn't understand the
internationally standardized font sizes when they wrote their Office
suite.  The open source folks refuse to adapt to broken software as a
default condition.  I believe if you install the intentionally broken
Open source clone of the True Type fonts, you will see the presentation
as its author intended (+/- minor changes to stay legal).

Powerpoint has its own problems dealing with documents that were made
on differing Powerpoint versions, as does the rest of the MSOffice suite.

-Chuck Harris

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Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi John

Yeah, that's my method of choice for my own stuff.  Unfortunately, I don't have
that option when I'm doing it professionally!
Also, normally when I do it I can use my own, or at least a known to me PC.
This particular presentation was the presentation from hell though.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Neon John
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:45 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] John Vig elected President of IEEE

May be a dumb question but why don't you just export the slides to bitmap
graphics or
to a PDF?  I rarely give presentations anymore but that's the approach I've
always
taken, especially if I'm going to have to use other hardware.  A series of TIFFs
or
JPGs and the free Irfanview which will run on a thumb drive or CD and you're
set.

John

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:04:15 -0500, Daun Yeagley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Chuck:

HOW TRUE your last sentence!!!   I've had to fight many battles with
presentations used in training classes that were written using whatever font.
Then when you try to present using a machine that doesn't have that particular
font installed, you get a HUGE mess!  We've even tried going to embedding fonts
in the presentations, but even that doesn't always work.
I just did some training for the Air Force, so I had to use one of their
computers, since it was part of a really nice classroom setup complete with
rear
projection.  However, they had very few fonts on that machine, and it made some
of this slides, especially ones with formulas on them, total gibberish.  Talk
about throwing you off guard!  I'd review the material in my hotel room the
night before, but when I put the questionable slides up, it would totally
confuse me.  As a result, my student evaluations weren't so hot.  (one
commenter
said the instructor seemed like he was winging it).  I might as well have
been!
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Alcohol, Tobacco  Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government
agency.


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Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA??

[Daun Yeagley]

Same for me with both browsers.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Didier Juges
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:02 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA??

Same thing here, I checked with Firefox and IE, and the problem clearly is
at their end... Maybe Monday?

Didier 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
 Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 7:56 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA??
 
 From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA??
 Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:28:15 -0800
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Rick,
 
  Coincidentally, I just learned today that the E1983A is still being 
  made by an OEM called Scotts Valley Magnetics.
 
 Oh, if there would manifest itself a chance to get hold of a 
 few, I hope I can get a notice. Their products page blew up 
 in my browser, but here they are:
 http://www.svmagnetics.com/
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Watches

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi John

I don't think you are alone in that boat.  Not only that, but don't send one to
Bulova to get fixed.  They'll just swap the magical parts and replace it with a
(not very good) quartz movement.  To me that kills the whole reason for having
one in the first place.
I agree on the Sleezebay comment too.  I just need to find enough time to get to
some estate auctions.  That really does seem to be the place to find them.  I've
tried to notify some friends that tend to go to those to be looking out for me.
I figure the more eyes out there looking, the better the chances.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Neon John
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:05 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Watches

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:06:01 -0500, Daun Yeagley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I've wanted to experiment with that, but I need to come
up with another Accutron, as I don't want to ruin the Spaceview that I got from
my wife on our first Christmas way back in '67!   Know any reasonable sources?

There's at least one SpaceView out there in the wild.  The one my jeweler
stole
from me back in the early 80s.  I took it in to get a new crystal and told him
I'd
pick it up when I returned from a trip.  Couple months later when I returned I
got
that ole What watch? treatment.  Bastid!

I've been looking on Ebay, but they always seem to get bid way up, even for one
that doesn't run.

Sleazebay isn't a very good source for that kind of stuff.  Watch your area for
estate auctions.  I've seen a few Accutrons go through in the last few years.
They
typically bring very little.  I've been holding out for another SpaceView so I
haven't bought anything.  

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better remain silent and be thought a fool than to cite Wikipedia and remove all
doubt.


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Re: [time-nuts] Watches

[Daun Yeagley]

Yeah, and I sure hope they don't poison something in the process.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 5:54 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Watches

The Spaceview is the Accutron model that everyone seems to want (even I want
one),
so much so that the Chinese are now making the necessary reproduction parts to
convert a model with a normal dial to a Spaceview.

Apparently, there is no fraud so large, or so small that somebody in China
won't do the work necessary to make the fraud possible.

-Chuck Harris

Neon John wrote:
 On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:06:01 -0500, Daun Yeagley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   I've wanted to experiment with that, but I need to come
 up with another Accutron, as I don't want to ruin the Spaceview that I got
from
 my wife on our first Christmas way back in '67!   Know any reasonable
sources?
 
 There's at least one SpaceView out there in the wild.  The one my jeweler
stole
 from me back in the early 80s.  I took it in to get a new crystal and told him
I'd
 pick it up when I returned from a trip.  Couple months later when I returned I
got
 that ole What watch? treatment.  Bastid!
 
 I've been looking on Ebay, but they always seem to get bid way up, even for
one
 that doesn't run.
 
 Sleazebay isn't a very good source for that kind of stuff.  Watch your area
for
 estate auctions.  I've seen a few Accutrons go through in the last few years.
They
 typically bring very little.  I've been holding out for another SpaceView so I
 haven't bought anything.  
 
 John
 --
 John De Armond
 See my website for my current email address
 http://www.neon-john.com
 http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
 Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
 Better remain silent and be thought a fool than to cite Wikipedia and remove
all doubt.
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Watches - the china connection

[Daun Yeagley]

If you were to look on the Accutron list at Yahoo, you would see plenty of
evidence that Bulova has turned it's back on the Accutron (the real one.. not
the quartz cheapies)
Also, some possible good news is that Citizen (Japan) just bought Bulova.  What
makes this even more interesting is that at one time they were building
Accutrons under license!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of WB6BNQ
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Watches - the china connection

Hi Chuck,

Well, there is another point of view to consider.  If Bulova cannot see the need
then MAYBE
there is nothing wrong with someone else providing that which is wanted.

Of course they should be up front and put there own name on it.  It seems that
Bulova has
cheapened their product to some extent and are not paying attention to the
market.

BillWB6BNQ


Chuck Harris wrote:

 The Spaceview is the Accutron model that everyone seems to want (even I want
one),
 so much so that the Chinese are now making the necessary reproduction parts to
 convert a model with a normal dial to a Spaceview.

 Apparently, there is no fraud so large, or so small that somebody in China
 won't do the work necessary to make the fraud possible.

 -Chuck Harris



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Re: [time-nuts] Watches

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Chuck

Have you ever attempted, or know someone who has rewound or repaired the coils?
There was a guy on the Yahoo Accutron list that was experimenting with it, but I
don't know the final outcome. Seems that wire is thinner than most normally
available wire.
Seems that the usual way to deal with the silver oxide vs. mercury battery
problem is to use a schottkey diode in series with the battery (there's even
someone marketing a battery assembly with the diode imbedded, called an
Accucell).  I've been thinking all along that the best way to do it is to
re-bias the transistor.  I've wanted to experiment with that, but I need to come
up with another Accutron, as I don't want to ruin the Spaceview that I got from
my wife on our first Christmas way back in '67!   Know any reasonable sources?
I've been looking on Ebay, but they always seem to get bid way up, even for one
that doesn't run.
Glad to get another time-nuts take on this!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Watches

Hi Tom,

Yep, there was a weak point there, but not for the reasons you
might imagine.  The big 300 tooth wheel was a ratchet wheel
that was driven by a pair of sapphire pawls that were attached
the tuning fork by a thin springy wire.  The 300 tooth wheel directly
drove the second hand of the watch.  That is why the watch had that
velvet smooth second hand.  If the watchmaker forced the second
hand to rotate, it would bend the springy pieces of wire (not wire
actually), and that was that.

It was difficult adjusting the phase of the two ratchet pawls relative
to the teeth on the wheel.  One pawl had to be half way between a root
and a crest when the motive pawl ligned up with a crest.  A 20-30x
microscope was necessary that and a very steady hand.

Electrically the biggest failure item was the tuning fork coils
themselves.  The coils were wound with wire that was around #48
AWG.  It would break, or corrode at the solder joint, and the
watch would stop.  Rewinding the coils is a doable task if you can
get the wire, and you know how to deal with it.

Now days, the 1.35V mercury cells that the Accutron used are no longer
available, and the 1.5V silver oxide cells overdrive the tuning
fork, causing lots of noise, and motion problems.  Changing a resistor,
and adjusting the phase of the pawls will usually allow the use of
politically correct cells.

-Chuck Harris

Thomas A. Frank wrote:
 Real tuning form Accutrons are collectibles now, and it is not  
 unheard of for
 an unscrupulous watchmaker to steal the movement out of one, and  
 replace it with
 a cheap quartz movement, all in the name of doing the watch's owner  
 a favor.
 
 Not just unscrupulous watchmakers, that's what happens if you send  
 your watch back to Bulova for repair!
 
 If you know enough to include a note saying do not replace, they  
 return it untouched, as they no longer service the tuning fork  
 movements (I imagine they would put in a battery and new o-rings for  
 the case, but anyone can do that, so why risk a possible error?).
 
 There are now folks who specialize in repairing these nifty pieces of  
 technological ephemera.
 
 I understand the weak point in the design is the 300 tooth escape  
 wheel which rides the tuning fork.  Fragile teeth.
 
 Tom Frank
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Watches

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Didier
I agree with Chuck.  I keep my Accutron on a nightstand beside my bed, and even
with my bad ear, I can hear it humming away!   The one year life for a battery
is about right too.
Mercury cells were what they were designed to run on, and since those are no
longer available, silver oxide cells are used as replacements.  Since the
voltage on these is higher, it drives the tuning fork harder and not only are
they louder, but they need to be re-phased so that they index correctly with
the increased amplitude.  This has been a topic of much discussion in Accutron
circles!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 10:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Watches

Hi Didier,

I would bet that it still works, and he couldn't get
mercury cells to power it with anymore.  Accutrons eat cells
for lunch.  You get 1 year and not much more.  Remember the
one transistor oscillator is cranking 24/7, and the hum is
audible if the watch sits on any kind of sounding board.

I'd be happy to help.

-Chuck Harris

Didier Juges wrote:
 Chuck,
 
 My dad has one of the original tuning fork Accutron. I know he stopped
 wearing it a while back, but I am not sure why. I will ask him if he still
 has it and if it works and in case he does, I would like to go back to you
 for more information in order to make it work again, if that's OK. 
 
 Thanks in advance,

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Re: [time-nuts] Chronometer contest sponsored by IEEE Spectrum

[Daun Yeagley]

Yes, they have a trimmer (at least all of mine do). Most backs can be opened by
either prying, screws, or threaded ring.
It's very helpful to have good lighting and some magnifiers.  If you've done any
surface mount work, this would be a piece of cake.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Max Robinson
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 1:09 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chronometer contest sponsored by IEEE Spectrum

In my experience watches come from the factory adjusted to gain about 5 
seconds a month.  The ones I have owned over the years seemed to be fairly 
stable in that.  I have always wished there was a way for someone who is not 
a watch maker to open up such a watch and turn the trimmer capacitor, there 
has to be one, to set it right on.  Then it would be much easier to tell how 
the crystal is aging.

Regards.

Max.  K 4 O D S.

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com

To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chronometer contest sponsored by IEEE Spectrum



 With a little work you might be able to precisely  calculate the
 maxima of the parabola and precisely set the frequency  independent of
 temp and aging.  Ha!

 What's the aging like for watch crystals?

 What type of cut to watch crystals use?  Are there any generalizations 
 about
 aging?

 I don't remember any tales of watches changing from good to bad after a
 couple of years.  Surely there are enough geeks who keep an eye on the
 performance of their watches that somebody would have noticed.  Or maybe 
 they
 setup the initial calibration so it gets better as it ages for the first
 year...



 -- 
 These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.12/1162 - Release Date: 
 11/30/2007 9:26 PM

 


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Re: [time-nuts] Watches

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Tim

Actually, the Accutrons aren't that expensive to repair.  Typical costs are
around $100, to maybe $200 if it is in bad shape.
I still have the Accutron Spaceview (the one where you can see the movement)
that my wife bought me on our first Christmas in 1967. I had it put back in
like new shape a year or so ago, and it cost $100.  I've also bought a couple
of junkers on Ebay for less than $50, and got them going myself.  They are
actually quite simple, with few moving parts.
Indeed, the name Accutron has really been cheapened IMHO by Bulova's marketing
of rather cheap quartz watches that they brand as Accutron.  The true Accutrons
(with the tuning forks) ceased manufacture around 1977.  The sad thing is that
they destroyed all the tooling used to make them. 

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tim Shoppa
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:48 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Watches

Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure if my son's watch is crystal controlled or some other system,
 I know some Bulovas used to use a mechanical tuning fork resonator
 (Accutron?) His watch is only 2 or 3 years old.

The original Accutron was indeed a mechanical tuning fork (hold it
up to your ear and hear a high-pitched hum) and while they still use
that trademark, they are now just quartz crystals.

I'm guessing the mechanical tuning fork model went away in the 70's for
most purposes. Some lab instruments used Accutron mechanisms for
timekeeping.

The mechanical tuning fork ones are quite collectible, and there's
no way in hell you'd ever get one repaired for $600!

Tim.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 8924C's on ebay

[Daun Yeagley]

There is a lot of commonality between the various 892x test sets.  When I get
some time, I'll ping my buddy that was sales manager for the line at (HP)Agilent
Spokane division. I know we've talked some about it in the past, but don't
remember enough details to make any binding comments!

Daun  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Javier
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:37 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 8924C's on ebay

That would be nice... to bring a more useful life to my 8922Ss, but I've 
not been yet able to gather too much information about them.

Regards,

Javier, EA1CRB

Poul-Henning Kamp escribió:

 It would be interesting if somebody tried to convert a cellphone
 unit to 8920A to see if it was possible.

   


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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Prologix GPIB and HP3478A...The Answer!

[Daun Yeagley]

Well, I have a 3478A, but unfortunately not a Prologix. If I get my hands on one
I could add a data point.
Personally, I think there is a fault in that particular 3478's driver chips.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 8:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Prologix GPIB and HP3478A...The Answer!

Didier Juges wrote:

 I would like to make sure we find out where the problem is. I agree with
 John that the Prologix has proven to be dependable and that the design
 approach was a reasonable compromise. Measurement Computing sells a GPIB
 driver chip that is in a small surface mount package, but it costs more than
 the Atmel chip Abdul is using, and it's just a driver.
 
 Didier

Making changes for the sake of making changes is probably a folly.
The Prologix concept is sound the way it is, but it should have some
mention of the known limitations.

It would be nice if we could find a couple of other folks that
have 3478's to test with the Prologix unit.

Because the 3478 uses 75ALS160/161's, it could have the tristate/pullup
modes selected by the microprocessor.  So it could be a part failure,
or a firmware problem.

I will try and determine which is true, but it will have to wait for
a while.

Thanks to all for their help and input into my problem

-Chuck Harris

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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Prologix GPIB and HP3478A...The Plot thickens!!

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Chuck

That's certainly a possibility that your Prologix has a problem. 
The comments on the HP-85, etc. parallel mine.  I worked for HP starting back in
1979, as an HPIB Specialist.  My first experience was with the 9825 (HPL),
and when the HP-85 came out, it became the workhorse, although the 9835 and 9845
were fancier and certainly faster. My favorite though was the 200 and 300 series
with the *real* RMB (Rocky Mountain Basic, nicknamed so because it was developed
in  the Fort Collins Desktop Computer Division (DCD). I still have one or two,
and has always been my favorite for doing instrument I/O.  Now I do a lot of it
using the Microsoft stuff... VB, and more recently C#.  Life for I/O was
certainly a lot simpler and foolproof in the RMB days.  Now, it makes me attempt
to go bald!

Daun
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Prologix GPIB and HP3478A...The Plot thickens!!

Hi Duan,

I was thinking that way until I moved on to try
another instrument, my Tektronix 7854, only to find
that the Prologix can't address it either!  The Prologix
doesn't hang like it did on the 3478A, but the Tektronix
acts as if it isn't on the bus at all.

I know we have some communication going on because if
I force SRQ on the tektronix, and issue a ++srq command
to the Prologix, the Prologix returns 1 showing
the SRQ line is asserted.  But if I do a ++spoll 10
the 7854's address) the SRQ line is not reset.

As an experiment, I put my 3437A on the bus to act as
surrogate pull up resistors; the 3437A works, but the
7854 is still deaf to the Prologix's charms.

It comes as no surprise to me, however, that when I drive
the 7854 with my HP85B, the 7854 works just fine.

[Everything works with the HP85B.,, Over the nearly 20 years
  that I have used an HP85B, I have never found an instrument
  that it couldn't make play straight out of the box.]

This is beginning to look more and more like I have a
bad Prologix adapter.

Oh Abdul??

-Chuck Harris

Daun Yeagley wrote:
 Well, I have a 3478A, but unfortunately not a Prologix. If I get my hands on
one
 I could add a data point.
 Personally, I think there is a fault in that particular 3478's driver chips.
 
 Daun 

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Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C antenna

[Daun Yeagley]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Didier, that ought to be just about in your back yard!! I did some consulting
for one of the Dothan TV stations last year (what's amazing is that the
transmitter is actually in Florida!). Anyway, on my way there from a military
reunion in Texas, we stopped in Shalimar to visit my old roommate that didn't
make the reunion. If I had known then where you live, I would have stopped by to
see you... He's probably about a mile from your place!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mike Niswonger
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:59 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C antenna

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

DJ,
Actually, you are closest to the Malone, FL LORAN, about 30 miles due
south of Dothan, AL. They run 800kW into a 700 foot monopole array. For
more info see http://www.uscg.mil/d8/lorstamalone/default.asp .

--Mike Niswonger, W4CMN

Didier Juges wrote:
 Speaking of Loran, I have an old Loran receiver (origin forgotten) and no
 antenna. 

 Is it possible to build a Loran antenna?

 I understand Loran uses narrow pulses of 100 kHz, so the antenna must have
 sufficient bandwidth to let the front edge of the pulse go undistorted. On
 the other hand, there are lots of spurious signals at these frequencies, so
 some selectivity is probably necessary. I am not sure what design would be
 best. I have made ferrite bar antennas for other long-wave reception, but it
 was narrow band, so I am not sure these designs would work.

 I live on the Gulf coast of North-West Florida, and therefore I believe I am
 not too far from a Loran station, so I probably do not need extreme
 sensitivity.

 Any suggestion welcome.

 Thanks in advance,

 Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Journal 10811 article

[Daun Yeagley]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

I tried it too, and found that page 20 gives an error (as soon as I scroll to
it).  All the other pages seem fine though.

Daun
N8ASB 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Max Robinson
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:17 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Journal 10811 article

I also looked at it and found it would show the page the first time I 
scrolled down to it.  If I backed up and moved down again it was blank.  I 
shut down adobe acrobat and opened the link again and this time page 19 was 
blank.  Go figure.

Regards.

Max.  K 4 O D S.

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com

To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Pieter ten Pierick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Journal 10811 article


Hello Jose,

On 18 Oct 2007, at 20:28, Jose Manuel wrote:

 Mark, I tried it again but the problem persists with this link on
 page 20.
I just downloaded it from the HP link and can read page 20 without
problems
using Preview on Mac OS X 10.4.10.
Maybe the file is somewhat broken and your pdf reader is rejecting
the specific
page?

BTW, interesting article, thx for the link.

Greetings,
Pieter.


 Nigel and Phil helped me and I got finally the complete article.


 Regards, José, EA1PX





 - Original Message -
 From: Mark Huffstutter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 time-nuts@febo.com
 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Journal 10811 article


 Jose,
   You might need to download the .pdf again, I just grabbed it
 and page
 20 is OK. And thank you for mentioning the issue, it does indeed
 look good!

 Best Regards,
 Mark


 On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:09:56 +0200, Jose Manuel wrote
 I´ve just tried to download this interesting article here:
 http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1981-03.pdf,  but
 page 20 appears blank. Does anyone have this page?

 Thanks, José, EA1PX
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 __ Información de NOD32, revisión 2599 (20071017) __

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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.5/1084 - Release Date: 10/21/2007 
3:09 PM



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Re: [time-nuts] WG: EZGPIB other software

[Daun Yeagley]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

For me, all the messages were either scrambled or blank.  I never did figure out
what Ulrich had to say!

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Arnold Tibus
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:10 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WG: EZGPIB  other software



Ulrich,
all your Messages were not 'scrambled' but correctly formatted 
and readable on my side (of course with '' signs on the 2nd).
Seem to be a character std. setting problem?

best regards,
Arnold

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:39:36 +0200, Ulrich Bangert wrote:

Friends,

because I received the first of my messages completely garbled as Rob
díd, I send it a second time and received it ok. The second message
includes a  in front of every line, the original not. I am not aware
how this can happen but it is already the second time that i experience
this problem.

Best regards
Ulrich





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Re: [time-nuts] Scope Clock

[Daun Yeagley]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi Didier

I have a low cost DSO, the HP 54600 Jedi, and it has an X-Y mode (as well as a
Roll mode which emulates a strip chart recorder at very low time/div
settings).  Now how well it would work in this application would be a very good
question.  I do suspect it would not be very satisfactory.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Didier Juges
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:10 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Scope Clock

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

I think you mean Most *analog* scopes can be used in X-Y display mode. I
have not looked closely, but I do not remember seeing X-Y mode on a DSO,
even though I am sure the high end models support it.

Didier KO4BB


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:54 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Scope Clock

Most scopes can be used in X-Y mode anyway but the X-Y display  is really 
just the back end of the scope without the fancy twiddly  bits on the
front:-)
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR


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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] The first time nut?

[Daun Yeagley]

No, that is correct.  The Accutron has a predictable position error, gaining or
loosing a couple of seconds a day depending on whether the tines of the fork are
pointing up or down. (gravity effects!).  They are calibrated depending on
whether it is worn on the inside or outside of the wrist, or whether on the left
or right arm.  He was simply taking advantage of this phenomenon to make it gain
or loose without having to reset it.  (on the original 214's there was no hack
mechanism to start and stop the movement without taking the battery out).
When the watch is worn, it's temperature is maintained at very close to body
temperature, in effect it's own oven.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:42 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The first time nut?

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Ackermann N8UR writes:

[...]and if one was gaining a half second
on the other, he would wear it on the outside of his wrist instead of
the inside, so that gravity changed the rate of the tuning fork [...]

I'd expect that the author got this wrong, it would be the temperature
change that did it.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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[time-nuts] HP glass 1 MHz crystal

[Daun Yeagley]

I took some pictures of my 1 MHz HP glass crystal.
You can see them here:

http://www.yeagley.net/Time-Nuts/


Daun


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Re: [time-nuts] NTP Synchronised Nixie Tube Clock

[Daun Yeagley]

Ah, but I saw some glass semiconductor diodes in there!  Look about half way
down the page.  Could they be 1N914's?  (I don't do German)

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Maggie Leber
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:02 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP Synchronised Nixie Tube Clock

On 5/8/07, Jason Rabel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Lol, as I was reading the posts I was thinking, I bet Tom hooked one up to
 his Maser

 And sure enough the proof is in the pictures. ;)

 You guys crack me up.


Of course, a truly hard-core Nixie tube clock wouldn't use
semiconductors at all.

http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Bruegmann-Digital-Roehren-Clock/Digi
tal-Roehrenuhr.htm

 (or http://tinyurl.com/3632h )

http://www.eldocountry.com/projects/tubeclock.html

--
73 de Maggie K3XS
Editor, Phil-Mont Mobile Radio Club Blurb - http://www.phil-mont.org
Elecraft K2 #1641 -- AOPA 925383 -- ARRL 39280

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Re: [time-nuts] NTP Synchronised Nixie Tube Clock

[Daun Yeagley]

I have an interesting 1MHz crystal that I got a number of years ago when I was
at the HP Santa Clara Division (Hertz Castle is what they called the place).  
It is an HP P/N 5080-0031 1MHz crystal, gold plated, and in a glass vacuum tube.
I'll have to take a picture of it and post it... It's really quite pretty!

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:37 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP Synchronised Nixie Tube Clock

 Just finished reading all of it; still have that feeling (Will Smith,
 Independence Day)  I have go to get me one of these!
 
 What would really sweeten the deal; tube version of 10811 to go with it.
 Phase locked of course! :)
 
 Jack

I think all the old hp 100-series frequency standards were
tube based. Even the 100 kc crystal was mounted inside a
conventional vacuum tube. The old GR quartz standards had
tubes: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/gr1103a/
So these would make a nice companion to that all tube nixie
tube clock.

The model hp 101A was hp's first transistorized standard;
after that came the 103 104 106 107 105 105-44 108-11

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] Z3815A - what? -who? -where?

[Daun Yeagley]

I was thinking that myself, but this connector has four rows, and the VME only
has three.  (There's also P1 and P2).  VXI is similar to VME.  Having just
worked on a project with VME cards, I know that those connectors are quite
expensive.  These are similar but unique, so I can't imagine the cost for those.
Shucks, I was hoping to get into that game without spending a fortune.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Didier Juges
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 10:42 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3815A - what? -who? -where?

This connector looks like a VME backplane connector. They cost a fortune.

Didier KO4BB

Bill Hawkins wrote:
 The pictures show why the 3815 never became popular.

 Matching that monstrous connector would be a problem.
 The project is impractical without the matching card
 file.

 And what is that big, empty DB connector in the middle?

 Bill Hawkins
  


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Re: [time-nuts] HP59309A HP-IB Digital Clock Operating andServiceManual

[Daun Yeagley]

In the FWIW department, I now have an old Ricoh BW scanner that can handle up
to 11x17, and can generate PDF's.  I've been using it for doing oversize
schematic pages from manuals.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Norman J McSweyn
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:30 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP59309A HP-IB Digital Clock Operating andServiceManual

Gentlemen,
I'll get right on it. The large pages will have to be copied at a local 
blueprint store.
Updates soon.
Norm n3ykf 



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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Audiophoolery

[Daun Yeagley]

I had passed a couple of these posts on to one of my buddies at Motorola, since
we and a few others have by chance been having a parallel discussion of such
topics. Check out his message.

OK,

This is as crazy as it gets.  I have seen the high end power cables
before and consider this the ultimate in audiophoolishness ... I'm not
sure this is the most expensive example, but it surely establishes that
there is no connection between reality and audiophoolery.

Check it out:  http://www.audioconnect.com/html/pk10_palladian.html 

SWR enhanced  God, it's so simple, why didn't I think of it?

Jim


This one just fit so nicely into our discussions!


Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of John Pettitt
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:03 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Audiophoolery

Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
 On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 02:21, Bruce Lane wrote:
   
  Discussions involving audiphoolery, particularly where silly things like
$500 knobs and atomic references for CD writing are involved, never fail to
amuse me.

  With that in mind, and given the current thread about Antelope Audio, I
feel compelled to point out a link which, I think, illustrates one of the peaks
to which audiophools will go to satisfy their obsessions.

  http://www.monstercable.com/productDisplay.asp?pin=195

  I invite all to have a good chuckle over this one. ;-)

 Keep the peace(es).
 


 Take a look at this Aromatherapy and Audiophools which appeared in
 Electronics World and Wireless World, October 1999. I thought it was so
 funny I scanned it and stuck it on my web site. 


 http://www.g8wrb.org/useful-stuff/audiophools.pdf

   
I still remember the mercury filled speaker wires post - see also

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hall/8701/Audio_BS.htm

and in case anybody still needs convincing

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/632/v/3/sp/332683698431330268420

*Harmonic Technology Fantasy

*In our test system Fantasy proved to be an extremely charming cable, it 
is extremely fine and smooth while being able to resolve detail with 
ease. Acoustic space is well defined and instrument tone is pretty good 
too.

Excuse me while I gag.  $900 for a par of 3m wires!

John


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Re: [time-nuts] audiophoolery

[Daun Yeagley]

That one did it.  There has been some talk about Klipschorns during this thread,
and I must confess that I'd like to have a pair.  Not only for the way they
sound, etc., but I have an interesting special connection..
Turns out that I bought a Beech Bonanza in 1976 (which I still have!). As I was
going over the paperwork with it, I learned that it had belonged to Klipsch
Associates, and was indeed Paul Klipsch's!  I got up the courage to give him a
call a few years later, and ended up having at least an hour long conversation
with him.  He was quite a colorful fellow and EE.  I was glad to have gotten to
talk with him before he died.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Paul Nelson
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:47 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] audiophoolery

I lurk in the digest mode- very rarely have anything to offer, but have 
to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed these forays off into audiophoolery! 
just amazing how many ways people can be parted from their money. Makes 
me think I'm in the wrong business- but, truth to tell, I couldn't live 
with myself if I had written some of the c**p in those sites.

John and John- I have had a pair of Klipschorns since 1969. Never been 
tempted to give em up. But I have to tell you guys about a friend of 
mine who showed up at my door one saturday last summer to show me what 
he'd just picked up at a garage sale near Ames that morning you 
guessed it, a pair of K-horns. Dusty. A bit scarred. But in good shape, 
nothing blown. For $50.

'Nuff said.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote- from John Day and John De Armond:



 I feel yer pain buddy! My real Klipsches didn't survive a fire.

 Sad, isn't it. But in those days I had a house with a good size
 listening room ( 16m long, about 6m wide) that could handle them.

  Gawd
 I miss those horns. Those proved that excellent speakers make
 everything else in the system relatively unimportant.

 And the efficiency! I got turned on to horns by a now sadly departed
 friend who had some upright folded horns that could fill his place
 with only three or four watts.

-- 

Paul Nelson W5GNF  When I go, I want to go quietly, in my
Ames, Iowa sleep, like my grandfather- not 
Senior Engineerscreaming, like his passengers.
Sauer-Danfoss Company
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   More hay, Trigger?
 ex-Cessna 140 N77149 (sigh)   No thanks, Roy, I'm stuffed.

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Re: [time-nuts] Question for the cesium nuts.

[Daun Yeagley]

A couple of years ago my wife dropped her digital camera in a parking lot at a
wedding we were attending.  The camera would turn on, but it complained that
there was no memory card.  When we got back home, I opened it up to find that a
surface mount dual transistor that controls power to the memory card had come
loose.  I thought it strange that this was the problem, considering how rugged
SM usually is.  After a lot of research, I was able to find out what the part
was and get a replacement. (NOT, of course from the camera manufacturer.. they
would only sell me the completed board at a cost exceeding the price I had
originally paid for the entire camera!).  Works fine again now.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hal Murray
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:30 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Question for the cesium nuts.


 That reminds me of a tester I got to see while I was working on a
 project for Motorola at one of their ALT (accelerated life test) labs.
  This was for testing durability of cell phones. The tester basically
 was a pendulum that was about three feet high. At the base, you placed
 the PUT (phone under test), and you pulled the pendulum up to a
 specified angle and let it go.  It would swing down and whack the
 phone across the room into a target.  Amazing what they'll handle! 

My digital camera died recently.  (Well, it was killed.  I gave it a bath in 
salt water when I miss-judged a wave at the ocean.)

I went to the local brick and mortar camera store to get a replacement.  
After I told the guy what I was interested in, he brought out several 
possibilities.

He dropped one of them on the floor from normal hand/chest height.  It was 
still working after he picked it up.  I forget the brand, but somebody was 
willing to put their reputation on the line.


-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] Question for the cesium nuts.

[Daun Yeagley]

That reminds me of a tester I got to see while I was working on a project for
Motorola at one of their ALT (accelerated life test) labs.  This was for testing
durability of cell phones.
The tester basically was a pendulum that was about three feet high. At the base,
you placed the PUT (phone under test), and you pulled the pendulum up to a
specified angle and let it go.  It would swing down and whack the phone across
the room into a target.  Amazing what they'll handle!
Another similar test was dropping a steel ball (maybe 3/4 diameter) onto the
display of the phone. The idea was to see how high you could go before it
shattered.
One of my more amusing projects.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Thomas A. Frank
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 9:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Question for the cesium nuts.

 The test is called the hammer blow test.

 Why do I picture a large steel hammer on a swing setup with a DUT as 
 targeted
 endpoint?


Because that's pretty much how it's done :-)

OK, the DUT is sitting on a big steel table and the hammer hits the 
table not the piece, but still...you would be amazed at how far the 
pieces fly sometimes.

Tom Frank, KA2CDK


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Re: [time-nuts] 75Z vs 50Z for GPS receivers

[Daun Yeagley]

A number of vector network analyzers have a time domain function in them.  They
use an inverse Fourier transform to get the display.
This is VERY useful in a high RF environment.  A number of years ago we had a
problem on a receiver site for the DARA (Dayton) two meter repeater, and it was
located on the WHIO TV transmitter tower.  One of the guys had tried to use a
conventional TDR, but since the front end is wide open, all he could get was
gibberish.  I took an HP 8753 analyzer that had the time domain option, and it
clearly showed where the fault was.  It was able to do it because it uses a
narrowband receiver. 

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:35 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 75Z vs 50Z for GPS receivers

Hi Didier:

Yes they are on eBay.  The tunnel diode models have a narrower pulse 
than the later models that use something more rugged.  Probably for all 
practical purposes one of the newer ones would work well and last 
better.  I think the military bought boat loads of these and I've heard 
from a number of people that use them and like them a lot.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com



Didier Juges wrote:

Going over the spec for the 1502, it seems like a nice instrument. I am 
worried about the fragility of the tunnel diode though. When my neighbor 
AD4TK fires up his amplifier, I have measured up to 1W of his signal 
going down my feedline (on the 80m slopper antenna)...

Are these things on eBay?

Didier KO4BB

Brooke Clarke wrote:
  

Hi Didier:

The Tek 1502 is great for doing this, especially if you have the 
optional strip chart recorder.  It's what it was made to do.
http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/Tek1502.shtml

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
  




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Re: [time-nuts] 10811 warmup (Jason Rabel)

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Jason

I might have something for you on this.
All this talk about the 10811's forced me to get off my duff and get working on
two 10811's that I have and have been sitting on my shelf for several years
(like well before I retired from Agilent in '03).
One is a 10811-60102, and the oven heater was bad. I had opened it up several
years ago, and that was about as far as it got.  Now that Jack has made the PDF
of the manual, I had no excuses left.  It is now running after replacing the
10V. regulator, U1, and the two one ohm emitter resistors!
The second one is a 10811-60160, which was still in the original plastic wrap!
Well, I decided to power it up too, so I built the little test harness described
in the manual (this is the model with the edge connector).  Well, I couldn't get
the oscillator to draw any current!  I really didn't want to open up a virgin
unit, but I didn't see any other easy choice.  After pawing around for a while,
I came to the conclusion that there is an error in the manual.  Pin 2 is indeed
a ground, but it is only for the 10MHz output.  The real power ground for the
oscillator is actually on pin 4!  I tied pins 2 and 4 together, and it is
working fine. I would suggest that you check this out carefully... maybe that's
why it won't run.
At this point I need to make a run over to John Ackermann's and get them netted
in more precisely, as at the moment I don't have a better standard here at the
house (I'm working on it though!).  I can bring them to within 1 Hz using my
Spectrum Analyzer, and that is close enough for the two to injection lock, since
I'm currently running both of them from a common lab supply.
Next on the agenda is to get one of my FRS-C Rb's put together.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jason Rabel
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:36 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 warmup (Jason Rabel)

Thanks Bruce,

I think we have gotten a little off-subject here... My issue is not with the
oven, but the oscillator circuit itself. I'm not getting any signal on pin
1.

I removed the assembly from the insulation easy enough, I haven't gotten any
further yet, been troubleshooting my shera board today. I don't hear
anything rattling inside so I don't think the crystal is physically broken
like Chris mentioned. 

Jason



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 warmup (Jason Rabel)

Jason

As long as the thermistor is still within the oven mass and the 
temperature regulation circuit is functioning OK, the oven should 
actually be OK.
However the temperature control loop may oscillate as the thermal time 
constant for which it has been compensated has been drastically 
decreased by removing the insulation from the oven mass.
If the oscillation amplitude is sufficient it is conceivable that some 
damage due to excessive temperature may occur.
However, the dissipation of the oven heater transistors is limited by 
the control circuit so the temperatures reached may not be high enough 
to damage components.
The turn on current limit circuit limits the heater transistor emitter 
current to about 0.52A with a 24V heater supply, limiting the maximum 
dissipation in the heater transistors to about 12.5W with a 24V heater 
supply, which is probably insufficient for the inner oven mass to get 
very hot once the insulation is removed.
The principal problem is personal burn injury .

Bruce



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Re: [time-nuts] OT: RoHS crap

[Daun Yeagley]

Part of the law of unintended consequences!  
Sometimes it's better to leave things alone.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:24 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: RoHS crap

Hi Michael,

RoHS parts usually solder nicely with normal 63/37 solder.  They will
dilute the solder alloy slightly, but that usually is of no concern.

The big problem with RoHS parts is they don't age well on the shelf.
I have found that over time, they will not take solder as quickly as
when they are new.  So, new old stock (NOS) RoHS parts will be a much
bigger gamble than NOS tin/lead parts.

Another problem, is their mostly tin plating grows tin whiskers which
can cause shorts out at some point in the future.

It is fun to watch the RoHS parts as they reach soldering temperature.
the shiny finish turns to a mossy crinkle finish, like a wrinkle finish
paint job.  What you are seeing is the electroplated finish crystalize.

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, in the irony department, it has been reported that RoHS solders are
actually more toxic (and mobile) when they enter the ground water than lead.

Michael Sokolov wrote:
 Hello time-nuts,
 
 Sorry for the off-topic post, but reading my mail this morning I've seen
 a few messages go by on this list about bad solder joints due to the
 RoHS stupidity, and I have a question about that.
 
 My interest in the matter is from the perspective of a hobbyist hardware
 builder -- of the non-commercial, anarchist, screw-all-f***ing-laws
 kind.  To me the RoHS problem is really two separate problems, of which
 only one really matters:
 
 Part one is the lead-free solder.  *I think* this one is easily solved
 -- just use normal tin-lead solder in everything I build.
 
 Part two is the lead-free *parts*.  This is the real problem.  While
 some manufacturers still offer both leaded and lead-free parts at least
 on paper, in many cases the leaded part is discontinued or much more
 difficult to obtain than the lead-free version.

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Re: [time-nuts] Motorola Oncore GPS Interface Board

[Daun Yeagley]

I would be interested in one if the cost is reasonable.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 10:25 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Motorola Oncore GPS Interface Board

I have built 3 prototype boards for interfacing to a Motorola GT/UT GPS and I am
about ready to order production boards. I was wondering how many users are
looking for something like this, TAPR and another source have discontinued their
products.
Presently the design has a linear voltage regulator for the 5 volts, a MAX232
level translator and an LED for the 1PPS heartbeat. There is also room for
buffers if there is a demand for this. I was thinking of offering a kit with the
PC board and the components. Anyone interested?

Bob Ellis, K0BGH

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Re: [time-nuts] ARRL 2006 Frequency Measuring Test

[Daun Yeagley]

I'm planning on it again this year.

Daun
N8ASB 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Henry Knoepfle
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:22 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] ARRL 2006 Frequency Measuring Test

The November QST has an announcement for the 2006 Frequency Measuring Test
( www.arrl.org/w1aw/fmt - though the 2006 announcement has not made it to the
website yet).  The object is to determine as accurately as possible the carrier
frequency of a signal sent from W1AW on the 160m, 80m and 40m bands.  There will
also be a signal sent from the west coast on the 40m band.  A lot of time nuts
are hams.  Who plans on participating?

Henry
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Re: [time-nuts] HP8568B firware eproms anyone ?

[Daun Yeagley]

I would tend to agree on the copyright concerns.  I'm retired from HP/Agilent,
and happen to know the guys that do the support on them, so I just forwarded
these messages to one of them.  Perhaps we can get a solid OK, or at least one
with such strings attached!

Daun
N8ASB 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:07 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP8568B firware eproms anyone ?

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Ackermann N8UR writes:
Poul-Henning Kamp said the following on 10/18/2006 05:48 PM:

 I'm not sure if the firmware of the 8566B is different from the 
 8568B, anyone know ?

I'm pretty sure that the '66 firmware is different than the '68, or I'd 
offer to copy mine for you.

I would expect so, but on the other hand wouldn't be surprised if they were the
same.

 I think this is the second report of eprom failures I recall on the 
 list, should we start to make a EEPROM library for futures sake ?

That's not a bad idea, though it does unfortunately raise copyright 
concerns...

Not as long as the firmware is used only in original HP equipment.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

[Daun Yeagley]

Which reminds me..  I think Sprint in my area needs a little work on their
snychronization.  On my way between work and home I go through a spot
where it tries to hand off and it drops the call every time.  It is
repeatable to about 100 yards, and it's NOT because of lack of signal
strength.  I'm pretty sure that it is because I'm moving from one area to
another, not just an adjacent cell.

Daun


 On Aug 31, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Glenn wrote:

 Dave Andersen wrote:
 1)  They actually only need to be correct to within 10us,
 according to
 the spec.


 I haven't read the spec, but I don't think it applies to the time
 _display_. I'd also hazard a guess that the cell phone application
 programmers
  don't care too much about exactly what time it is. They certainly
 don't
 care about non-critical bugs. Apologies to anyone out there that
 actually writes cell phone apps that work reliably.

 Doesn't apply to the display at all.  The synchronization is required
 for CDMA soft handoff between base stations.

-Dave



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Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

[Daun Yeagley]

CDMA phones have their clocks set by the system, as they require more precise
synchronization of not only the data stream bit timing, but also the
synchronization of the psuedo random key streams. These are used for syncing up
the Walsh codes as well as security encryption key functions. 

Daun
N8ASB

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Didier Juges
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:53 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

I have observed that some cell phones set their clock when you power them up,
and others set it at regular time. Some automatically change time zone as you
travel and some don't, maybe due to the same process.

Didier KO4BB

Glenn wrote:
 _Most_ cell phones set their time to network time. Usually within 
 one second. Although I have seen cell phones set themselves and be off 
 by nearly a minute.

   


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Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

[Daun Yeagley]

Good explanation!

Daun
N8ASB 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of David I. Emery
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:01 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 07:53:19PM -0500, Didier Juges wrote:
 I have observed that some cell phones set their clock when you power 
 them up, and others set it at regular time. Some automatically change 
 time zone as you travel and some don't, maybe due to the same process.
 
 Didier KO4BB

I assume most members of this august group know that all CDMA cellphones
MUST know the correct time to within about 1 us or so in order to correctly
spread and despread the forward and reverse channel signals.

There are mechanisms (pilot signals) built into the signaling format
that allow a CDMA cellphone with cheap TCXO time base to acquire the necessary
frequency and then time lock when it is first turned on or first sees a signal.

But a CDMA cellphone locked up on a base-station (its normal
state) should know the CDMA system time with microsecond accuracy and also be
able to correct its TCXO time base and lock it to the system reference so it too
should be very accurate.

And essentially ALL CDMA systems lock system time and frequency to
GPSDOs at the cell sites (easiest way of keeping a whole network of them locked
together so handoffs work) and keep system time set to UTC.

So the only thing preventing the clock on a CDMA cellphone from being
essentially arbitrarily accurate is laziness or sloppiness in the GUI firmware
that handles the visible clock display - in engine room in the bowels of the
phone there is VERY accurate time of day.

 
 Glenn wrote:
  _Most_ cell phones set their time to network time. Usually within 
  one second. Although I have seen cell phones set themselves and be 
  off by nearly a minute.
 

 
 
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-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent'
sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration
of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

[Daun Yeagley]

You just missed the biggie the Dayton Hamvention (this past weekend!).
That's a real gold mine for hard to find stuff.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Allan W. Bart, Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:19 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts


These units are still plentiful, you might want to go to a local hamfest or
ebay, the better deals are at the hamfests.

Allan


From: Bruce Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 24 14:33:17 CDT 2006
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

Thanks Allan for the response. I have the HP-5245L and the HP-5262A 
Time Interval Unit, but it is not working. Problems in the PS and the 
front handle on the right side is broken off. I had planned to use this 
unit for frequency comparison, but not sure this is what I want. Your 
comments would be appreciated.
Bruce W1GBS

- Original Message -
From: Allan W. Bart, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts


 Hello,

 I have one of these units and it will never die, try fair radio in 
 Lima OH.

 Allan Bart


 From: Bruce Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 24 12:55:58 CDT 2006
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

Looking to buy a HP-5245 or equivalent for parts only. Need not be 
working, or complete.
If you have this animal and would be willing to part with it, please 
contact
me directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thanks,
Bruce W1GBS in Maine



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Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

[Daun Yeagley]

Hello Group, BTW, I am still seeking a Tracor 599K manual, does anyone have 
one? On the hp 5245L, I have the plugins to measure between dc and 18GHZ and 
you would have found plenty at the dayton hamfest, ask your ham friends for a 
list of local and regional events.

Allan Bart




You just missed the biggie the Dayton Hamvention (this past weekend!).
That's a real gold mine for hard to find stuff.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Allan W. Bart, Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:19 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts


These units are still plentiful, you might want to go to a local hamfest or
ebay, the better deals are at the hamfests.

Allan


From: Bruce Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 24 14:33:17 CDT 2006
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

Thanks Allan for the response. I have the HP-5245L and the HP-5262A 
Time Interval Unit, but it is not working. Problems in the PS and the 
front handle on the right side is broken off. I had planned to use this 
unit for frequency comparison, but not sure this is what I want. Your 
comments would be appreciated.
Bruce W1GBS

- Original Message -
From: Allan W. Bart, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts


 Hello,

 I have one of these units and it will never die, try fair radio in 
 Lima OH.

 Allan Bart


 From: Bruce Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 24 12:55:58 CDT 2006
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5245L Parts

Looking to buy a HP-5245 or equivalent for parts only. Need not be 
working, or complete.
If you have this animal and would be willing to part with it, please 
contact
me directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thanks,
Bruce W1GBS in Maine



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Re: [time-nuts] FW: IEEE 1588

[Daun Yeagley]

Is that license fee to HP or to Agilent?

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:14 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: IEEE 1588

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Hoover writes:

Has anyone been following the recently issued IEEE 1588 Precise Time 
Protocol (PTP) standard?

http://ieee1588.nist.gov/

Yes, I have.

There's a $1000 license fee to HP for patents before you can start to play with
it and no waiver is possible, so Open Source not an option.

From what I've read, implementations have demonstrated 10-100 
nanosecond
synchronization between computers connected via Ethernet.

Provided you have hardware support in the ethernet controller.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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[time-nuts] FW: GPIB Controller

[Daun Yeagley]

I got a bit of information on the device
 
Daun

  _  

From: Abdul Nizar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 11:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: GPIB Controller



Hello Daun.

 

You can buy from our reseller - SparkFun electronics at
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=549

Documentation is at http://www.prologix.biz/gpibusb.html. Costs $125.

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

Regards,

Abdul

 

  _  

From: Daun Yeagley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:08 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: GPIB Controller

 

I noticed your USB - GPIB controller...  How does one get one, and how much does
it cost?

 

Regards,

 

Daun

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Re: [time-nuts] Fan for old HP synthesizer (was RE: time-nutsDigest, Vol 21, Issue 20)

[Daun Yeagley]

I'd say that the biggest concern after physical size and Voltage requirements is
that it has an adequate CFM rating.  That's THE most important.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 3:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fan for old HP synthesizer (was RE: time-nutsDigest,
Vol 21, Issue 20)

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Hoover writes:

As someone else mentioned, the form factor is often quasi-standard.  
Poring over the Digi-Key catalog may be your best bet.

  Mtg Hole Ctr Sp - English : 3.25 in
  Thkns - English   : 1.5 in

This is what's called a 92mm x 92mm x 38mm fan these days.

There are many 92x92x25 mm fans available, you may be able to substitute one of
these if 92x92x38 is impossible to find.


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Three subjects.

[Daun Yeagley]

Speaking of Accutrons,  I still have the one I got for Christmas, 1967 (first
Christmas present after getting married a couple of months before).  I still
have mine, but it needs at least a good cleaning and perhaps repair.  I'm
wondering if anybody knows a decent place to have one of these worked on
anymore.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Dennis O'Keefe
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:32 PM
To: Time Nuts.
Subject: [time-nuts] Three subjects.

A leap second project that I was working on ended this morning, too early to be
useful. A while back there were comments regarding the handling of leap seconds
by the electric power frequency and if electric clocks would take the change
into effect.

On December 1, I started making a daily recording (by eye, ear, and ink on
paper) of what seconds an electronic digital clock displayed at 08:00:00 Eastern
Standard Time from WWV or CHU. I missed only one morning since then. 
This morning the electricity went off for several seconds and that clock now
shows 88 88 88. Lots of heavy snow on trees and wires here today. The clock is a
Heathkit I made in 1973 and counts power line frequency. Of the data I got the
latest was 08:00:13, and the earliest was 07:59:57. Even if the power had stayed
on through the end of January, I think the variation would be too random to pick
out a leap second. Wait until next time!



My Ultralink 333 did not update until 17 hours after the event, and still has
not come up with a value for the DUT1 correction, although shows a + where it
had been -6 before.



I was looking at some old calendars last night and noticed that I did a watch
calibration during July of 1972 (Yes I am a Time Nut from way back.) by writing
each day how many seconds my watch was off compared to WWV at the end of the
day. One interesting thing is that the 0-error start of the month-long series is
just a few hours after the first leap second.

I don't know if this is a coincidence or not. By 1972 my 1968 Accutron was
already not new and I had access to and knew about WWV several years earlier, so
I don't recall why I would have chosen that month to do it. I think I was not
aware of leap seconds then.

The Accutron was advertised to be accurate to a minute a month. Mine was +47
1/2 seconds at the end of the month. I no longer have that watch.

Dennis O'Keefe
New Paltz, New York USA

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Re: [time-nuts] Three subjects.

[Daun Yeagley]

I know there are some specialists servicing them, but I don't know the names. 
There is a new Accutron forum on www.watchuseek.com, you might ask there.



Speaking of Accutrons,  I still have the one I got for Christmas, 1967 (first
Christmas present after getting married a couple of months before).  I still
have mine, but it needs at least a good cleaning and perhaps repair.  I'm
wondering if anybody knows a decent place to have one of these worked on
anymore.

Daun 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Dennis O'Keefe
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:32 PM
To: Time Nuts.
Subject: [time-nuts] Three subjects.

A leap second project that I was working on ended this morning, too early to be
useful. A while back there were comments regarding the handling of leap seconds
by the electric power frequency and if electric clocks would take the change
into effect.

On December 1, I started making a daily recording (by eye, ear, and ink on
paper) of what seconds an electronic digital clock displayed at 08:00:00 Eastern
Standard Time from WWV or CHU. I missed only one morning since then. 
This morning the electricity went off for several seconds and that clock now
shows 88 88 88. Lots of heavy snow on trees and wires here today. The clock is a
Heathkit I made in 1973 and counts power line frequency. Of the data I got the
latest was 08:00:13, and the earliest was 07:59:57. Even if the power had stayed
on through the end of January, I think the variation would be too random to pick
out a leap second. Wait until next time!



My Ultralink 333 did not update until 17 hours after the event, and still has
not come up with a value for the DUT1 correction, although shows a + where it
had been -6 before.



I was looking at some old calendars last night and noticed that I did a watch
calibration during July of 1972 (Yes I am a Time Nut from way back.) by writing
each day how many seconds my watch was off compared to WWV at the end of the
day. One interesting thing is that the 0-error start of the month-long series is
just a few hours after the first leap second.

I don't know if this is a coincidence or not. By 1972 my 1968 Accutron was
already not new and I had access to and knew about WWV several years earlier, so
I don't recall why I would have chosen that month to do it. I think I was not
aware of leap seconds then.

The Accutron was advertised to be accurate to a minute a month. Mine was +47
1/2 seconds at the end of the month. I no longer have that watch.

Dennis O'Keefe
New Paltz, New York USA

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RE: [time-nuts] Re: Accuracy of a sound card

[Daun Yeagley]

Agilent also now has a USB to GPIB converter.  Of course it's several hundred
dollars also, and uses the Agilent I/O libraries.  Not sure, but I think that it
only supports Windoze.  I'll check with some of my buddies that survived to see
it that's the case.

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: Accuracy of a sound card


 I know :-(  I checked the NI prices and for such a card they want a
 couple hundreds Euros or more...
 I am wondering... I know of the existence of USB = RS232 adaptors. May
 be someone sells also USB = GPIB converters ? Nobody knows ?

 73  Alberto  I2PHD

Alberto,

I do almost all my logging with RS-232. It has the
advantage that it's OS-independent; i.e., it requires
no device drivers (since almost any OS supports
RS-232 out-of-the-box).

You can find cheap, surplus RS232-GPIB converters
which will work well on a HP 5328A.

To get more serial ports on a PC I use 4- or 8-way
USB-serial converters. Again these can be found
surplus for next to nothing. My favorite are those
by Edgeport.

/tvb



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RE: [time-nuts] Programming of 5370B

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi David

You have hit on the exact reason the 5370 has a binary transfer mode.  This mode
essentially transfers the bits directly from the counter hardware to the bus.
Remember this counter was designed and built quite a few years ago, and the
processor in it is rudimentary at best by today's standards.  It took a *lot* of
time for it to format up the numbers into ASCII!  I'm not sure if it was
specifically stated in the manuals, but it was a well known fact that to get any
speed at all, you had to use the binary format.

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Kirkby
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 4:47 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Programming of 5370B


I was going to send this to Poul-Henning Kamp personally, but thought it
might be useful to put here, as the discussion might be useful to others.

BACKGROUND.
I was aware Poul-Henning Kamp had written some software to read from the
HP 5370B TI counter.

I asked him to send it to me, which he did. After getting Solaris
drivers for my GPIB card, the software was reading around 4000
measurements/second on my old Sun (4x450MHz) which was not too different
from the 5000 on his OpenBSD box. (I doubt CPU performance is a limit,
but probably bus speed).

Poul-Henning Kamp's program was reading in binary mode and I had some
difficulty working out exactly how the numbers were obtained from all
the shifts and logical operations. Things such as:

 n0 = (buf[3]  8) + buf[4];
 if (!(buf[0]  0x20))
 n0 = -n0;

 n12 = ((buf[0]  3)  16) + (buf[1]  8) + buf[2];
 if (n12  (1  17))
 n12 -= (1  18);

are not too obvioous, although they seem to work very well.

I took the software and some of the ideas to write my own, so I
understood it. I learnt one thing for sure - I can write slower
software!! But at least I understand it.

What I did do however (for simplicity) was to read the data in as the
standard ASCII, which is the default output data format of the HP. I did
not use binary.

The 5370B manual says each measurment consists of about 5 differnet
parts, all of which add up to exactly 23 bytes.

For TI, a measurement might something like:

TI = 9.98898989E-08\r\n

but will be exactly 23 bytes.

But I am getting very poor performance, with around 63ms between each
data point collected (around 16 results/second), which is a lot poorer
than the 4000 measurements/second I was getting with  Poul-Henning
Kamp's program. I suspect this is the result of reading with ASCII, but
would be interested in comments.

The program I wrote is called 'hptic' and takes options for function
(time-interval, frequency etc), as well as SD etc. It uses
autoconf/automake and accepts long options, so it should be pretty
friendly if I get the peformance up.

The program prints a couple of lines of notes, including the GPIB string
the program actually sends to the counter. In this case its just 'FN1'
for time-interval.

sparrow /export/home/drkirkby/5370B-code/src % hptic --function
time-interval --text Note the long delays on TI too

# Note the long delays on TI too
# Sending FN1 to the HP 5370A or 5370B Time Interval counter
t= 0.00615 TI= 9.979e-08
t= 0.062570361 TI= 9.982e-08
t= 0.124602710 TI= 9.977e-08
t= 0.186614622 TI= 9.979e-08
t= 0.248818597 TI= 9.973e-08
t= 0.311027399 TI= 9.975e-08
t= 0.373508745 TI= 9.973e-08
t= 0.435905975 TI= 9.975e-08

It basically has a loop:

while (1) {
ibwrt(device_descriptor,cmdstring,strlen(cmdstring));
ibrd(device_descriptor, buf, 23);
print_results(buf);
}

I seem to be transferring about 16 measurements/second, with each
needing 3 bytes written and 23 read, making a total of just
16*(23+3)=416 bytes/s. I've no idea of what the bus should support, but
clearly this is very slow.

I know when I stuck the ibrd command into a bit of software supplied
with Labview (I'm not using Labview, but one of its tools is handy for
testing GPIB command), the counter returns more than one result at a
time, but I am not sure that number of results returned is consistent.
It might be consistent with just TI in mean mode, but try to do
something else and the number of bytes returned is very different.

At least reading 23 bytes I can guarantee to get one measurement and
only one measurement, but I suspect this is slowing me down.

BTW, I see some note from you about your program Allan.tgz and attempted
to compile it. Neither Sun's make of gnu make could handle the makefile,
but there seems nothing much to it, so it should compile once I remove
the err.h and the fpsetmask(FP_X_UFL), which my Solaris box croaks on.

There was one thing I noticed looking at your program. If I am not
mistaken, you are creating a lookup table of sines and cosines, rather
than compute them as you need them. Have you actually checked whether
this is faster on your processor than 

RE: [time-nuts] Programming of 5370B

[Daun Yeagley]

Indeed the *major* problem is doing all that processing.  I'm sure there are
more bytes involved using ASCII as well (I don't recall the numbers for each
format), but that part is lost in the added processing time.

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Scott Newell
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:00 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Programming of 5370B


At 03:46 PM 5/31/2005 , David Kirkby wrote:

What I did do however (for simplicity) was to read the data in as the
standard ASCII, which is the default output data format of the HP. I did
not use binary.

Doesn't the 5370B have to do more calculations to spit out ASCII data than
binary?  I think by going back to ASCII you've also moved some of the
numeric processing from your Sparc over to the little Moto in the 5370B

--
newell


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RE: [time-nuts] 10811 serial numbers

[Daun Yeagley]

I think the numbering scheme was changed a few years ago.  The 2850 tells us it
was built in 1988 (28 years after 1960).  I think this portion has been dropped,
perhaps when the spin-off from HP happened. I lost track of that in my last few
years there.  The A (in both cases) signifies that it was made in USA, and the
last part is the actual serial number.

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:44 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] 10811 serial numbers



   How are the 10811 OCXOs serially numbered ?
   I ask this, because from a photo on eBay I saw a 10811-60111 with
   serial number 2850A47273, a rather long number. The 10811-60111 in my
   5328 counter has as S/N the number A03912, which looks like it belongs
   to a different numbering scheme. Anybody knows ? TNX.
   73  Alberto  I2PHD
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RE: [time-nuts] National Instruments GPIB board drivers for Solaris.

[Daun Yeagley]

And then just network them..

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:11 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] National Instruments GPIB board drivers for
Solaris. 



All in all, it might be cheaper and easier for you to find an old
PC and stick FreeBSD or Linux on it and a ISA GPIB card in it :-)

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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RE: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Jim

I'm wondering that if we were to find an example of a known good unit as well
as a bad one, that we could look at the EPROMS to determine any defenses and
then clone the good ones.  That would be one way to save David if he gets a
bad one.

Daun


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:18 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B


Hi David,

   Apparently the GPIB fix occurred in the
5370B models only and as far as he knows, there
could be some units out there with bad firmware
in them and some with the GPIB fix.  The problem
still remains where they didn't change the firmware
revision number so there's no way to confirm it
one way or the other, besides having your GPIB hang
up on you.  Sorry, but that's about the best that
can be done on this issue.  I hope your 5370B is
a later model that has the fix in it!

Regards,
Jim



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Kirkby
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:52 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi again David,

I talked to x this morning and here's what
 he said:

Thanks.

 The 5370B has a different processor board than the
 A model, with on-board RAM (the A had a separate
 RAM board).  The B has had an upgrade to its DAC
 board.  The B has a different input module that is
 more stable than in the A.  The firmware has had an
 upgrade in the B, as the HPIB (GPIB) would occasionally
 hang up in the A model.  The bad news is that the
 newer firmware carries the same rev. number as the old one
 so you can't easily tell which one you have installed.

I'm slightly lost there. You seem to be implying the B's have newer
firmware than the A's, but then saying its not easy to tell if
you have
the new firmware, since the revision is the same. If the newer
firmware
was installed only in B's, then all you would need to do is
look at the
model number. Clearly then I assume either some B's have the old
firmware, or some A's have the new firmware, or perhaps HP
would update
an A to a B firmware.


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RE: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B

[Daun Yeagley]

Gee, now you've got me wondering.  I remember we used the TI chip for some
things and Motorola for some others, but don't remember who the other was.
Wasn't the Phi chip the HP version?  I also remember that the HP 9825 was the
standard by which all other 488 devices were compared.  If it worked with the
9825 it was OK, but if it didn't, the '25 was good and the other was bad.
That was back in the good 'ole days when I was an HPIB Specialist!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rick Karlquist
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B


I remember back when the 5370B was being designed that
there were three vendors who made GP-IB interface chips.
All three were implemented incorrectly resulting in bugs,
but the bugs were different.  All three vendors refused
to fix the bugs.  There was also an HP made PHI chip
that interfaced with GP-IB.  It might have actually worked
correctly.  I remember that the HP5183 had a bug where it
would go into serial poll by mistake after about 12 hours
of continuous bus activity.  There was no way to fix this
bug, AFAIK.

Rick Karlquist



[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Hi David,

Apparently the GPIB fix occurred in the
 5370B models only and as far as he knows, there
 could be some units out there with bad firmware
 in them and some with the GPIB fix.  The problem
 still remains where they didn't change the firmware
 revision number so there's no way to confirm it
 one way or the other, besides having your GPIB hang
 up on you.  Sorry, but that's about the best that
 can be done on this issue.  I hope your 5370B is
 a later model that has the fix in it!

 Regards,
 Jim



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Kirkby
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:52 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Difference between HP 5370A and 5370B


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi again David,

I talked to x this morning and here's what
 he said:

Thanks.

 The 5370B has a different processor board than the
 A model, with on-board RAM (the A had a separate
 RAM board).  The B has had an upgrade to its DAC
 board.  The B has a different input module that is
 more stable than in the A.  The firmware has had an
 upgrade in the B, as the HPIB (GPIB) would occasionally
 hang up in the A model.  The bad news is that the
 newer firmware carries the same rev. number as the old one
 so you can't easily tell which one you have installed.

I'm slightly lost there. You seem to be implying the B's have newer
firmware than the A's, but then saying its not easy to tell if
you have
the new firmware, since the revision is the same. If the newer
firmware
was installed only in B's, then all you would need to do is
look at the
model number. Clearly then I assume either some B's have the old
firmware, or some A's have the new firmware, or perhaps HP
would update
an A to a B firmware.


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RE: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?

[Daun Yeagley]

Hi Alberto
The right-click method works if you are reading in a browser (I just tried it
using SquirrelMail). However, I couldn't do that using LookOut (OutLook).
Fortunately, Rex's method also works, so there are at least two ways to
circumvent the problem.

Daun

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:25 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?


Rex wrote:

I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say save link as. Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.


Rex,

  you don't need to have access to the upper level. Just right-click on
the URL in my message and you will then have the choice of saving the
file as
That site hosts a commercial application (not mine, but which I
supervise technically), so I limited somewhat the possibility of
navigation there.

I use Fiirefox as well, and had no problems when I tried to redownload
it as a check.

73  Alberto  I2PHD



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