[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
I can never figure out how to post here... This may not work. From what I remember, the Atomic' wall clocks and watches only listen for WWVB a couple of times a day to conserve battery life - usually at night when propagation would be best. I don't know if the 60kHz signal is even available on a pin... Jerry S. Burt I. Weiner biwa at att.net Mon Jun 17 13:56:17 EDT 2013 Previous message: [time-nuts] raspberry pi, adafruit gps ntp Next message: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170... Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Chris, I think Paul really came up with an elegant answer. As you well know, the problem with the new format and phase locked receivers is that WWVB's phase is now being shifted for the new encoding scheme. It's this phase shifting that's messing up the phase locked receivers like the Spectracom 8170. Part of Paul's circuit generates a new 60 kHz signal that's not phase shifted. The receiver portion of his circuit decodes the dips that WWVB still transmits, and outputs the data which is used to turn on and off a switch that drops the new 60 kHz signal by approximately 14 dB in sync with the WWVB dips. I'm going to build this circuit, but I'm planning on using the receive module out of one of the many Atomic Clocks that I have around. I guess you could ask, Why don't I just put the Atomic clock on the wall in my shoppe and forget about the 8170? An honest answer to that is, that's no fun. In a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB signal to the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the signal signal. This way I don't have to mess with the insides of the 8170. Burt, K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Electronic Sculpture
Try this article - electronic sculpture starts about page three... http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4411017/Jim-Williams--The-light-side-and-classic-electronics-art-sculptures JW was an amazing fellow. Jerry S ps. Note the use of crystal oscillators (just to keep it Time-Nuts related). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The GPS navigation is the weakest point,
You guys are just over-thinking this issue. Iran was merely testing out a new Lightsquared base station. Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
How does one tell of the -5690A has 'Option 2', which is the ability to 'tune' the device via the RS-232 interface? Is there a particular ebay seller with the appropriate units? Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Clocking a PIC16F628A from a Rubidium Standard
N.B. /tvb's adapter is NON-polarized. Jerry Don Latham wrote:Sorry, Brooke-I was not clear. I meant to not connect anything toneutral at all, but rather to depend on the ground connection alreadymade in the equipment for the low side of the signal, rather than a 1meg to neutral at the plug. Sorry.DonBrooke Clarkegt; Hi Don:gt;gt; Not a good idea. There are a number of fault conditions that can causegt; Neutral to be tens of volts above ground. Tom'sgt; circuit with a Meg in both the Hot and Neutral lines is much safer forgt; you equipment.gt;gt; Have Fun,gt;gt; Brooke Clarkegt; http://www.PRC68.comgt; http://www.End2PartyGovernment.com/gt;gt;gt; Don Latham wrote:gt;gt; well, grudgingly. only need the 1 meg to the hot side of the line, nogt;gt; connection to the neutral needed, with 1 meg in there, normal groundgt;gt; connections are going to supply the low side...It still lurks...gt;gt; Dongt;gt;gt;gt; Tom Van Baakgt;gt;gt;gt; Come on, folks. never hook anything directly to the power line. Thegt;gt;gt;gt; source is just too stiff. Use an opto. I used fiber optic isolationgt;gt;gt;gt; withgt;gt;gt;gt; my big DC power supply.gt;gt;gt;gt; Dongt;gt;gt; I used to agree, until actually tried it myself. Now this is howgt;gt;gt; I do my picPET 60 Hz data logging:gt;gt;gt;gt;gt;gt; Simple 60 Hz AC Mains Cycle Detectorgt;gt;gt; http://leapsecond.com/pages/ac-detect/gt;gt;gt;gt;gt;gt; /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Making a 10811 better
The Cray-2 CPU was totally immersed in Florinert... Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NZ Quake
Certainly glad to hear Steve is okay. Is Bruce located anywhere near the damage? Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Subject: Re: Meter face for HP-4805A
Just a quick note... HP was quite proud that scales for their precision meters were individually produced for each movement on a custom made servo controlled photographic calibrator. An archive might be nice but won't provide the meter accuracy of the originals produced for each unit. Jerry Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:29:19 -0400 From: paul swed lt;paulsw...@gmail.comgt; Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Meter face for HP-4805A To: shali...@gmail.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement lt;time-nuts@febo.comgt; Didier, Its subjective then. If its bad enough you take the risk because you do know the process will degrade the scale. Essentially when its time to do it you will. So the good news is this. With todays tools you can very accurately reproduce the meter scale. I scan them at 1200 dpi as I just did for the dymec. I prefer bitmap over jpeg for storing them. Additionally with the various paint programs that seem to come on every pc today you can always fix issues pretty easily. Then print to your favorite material which most likely is a white picture material. (I like it because its a bit thicker and more stable) Though good quality paper is excellent also. Hmmm maybe we should send our meter scans to K4BB repository. Heck he has rom images. Regards Paul. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Meter face for HP-4805A
I read 'Vector Voltmeter' and assumed HP 8405A. Jerry -Original Message- From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist lt;rich...@karlquist.comgt; To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement lt;time-nuts@febo.comgt; Cc: gsteinb...@aol.com Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2010 8:52 am Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Meter face for HP-4805A On 10/12/2010 8:11 AM, gsteinb...@aol.com wrote:? gt; Just a quick note...? gt;? gt; HP was quite proud that scales for their precision meters were individually produced? gt; for each movement on a custom made servo controlled photographic calibrator.? gt;? gt; An archive might be nice but won't provide the meter accuracy of the originals produced? gt; for each unit.? gt;? gt; Jerry? ? I'm somewhat skeptical as to whether the 4805 meter is made that way.? It is true that the RX meter product made by Boonton Radio (not be be? confused with Boonton Electronics) and later bought by HP had custom? engraved drums. However, these were drums, not meter movements. The? meter on the RX meter is of course just a nulling indicator.? ? Rick Karlquist N6RK? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 75, Issue 52
Sure Brooke,? it's a fun read. ? http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1961-03.pdf Best, Jerry Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:26:34 -0700 From: Brooke Clarke lt;brooke95...@att.netgt; Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Meter face for HP-4805A To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement lt;time-nuts@febo.comgt; Message-ID: lt;4cb47e2a.9080...@att.netgt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Jerry: Is there an HP Journal or other article that goes into detail on how they did that? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Reciprocal Counters
Hi Jim, You're showing your age (you young whippersnapper!). ?? They've been around at least since the 80s,... Well, my General Radio 1159 Recipromatic Counters are from 1968 - built using those new transistor thingies and with the warm glow of Nixie tube readout. Best, Jerry Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 06:55:15 -0700 From: jimlux lt;jim...@earthlink.netgt; Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TPLL secret reveled To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement lt;time-nuts@febo.comgt; Message-ID: lt;4c10eec3.2030...@earthlink.netgt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ulrich Bangert wrote: gt; gt; gt; gt; The next improvement to the old fashioned pure counter was the invention of gt; subclock interpolation schemes. A counter using this works so: After the gt; beginning of the gate time it waits of the next zero crossing and then gt; measures the time up to the last zero crossing within the gate time with a gt; fixed resolution of say 1 ns (like the well known Racal Dana gt; 1992/1996/1998). The frequency value is then the result of a computation. If gt; you consider this working principle you notice that this is even more a gt; phase meter like thing than the original counter only thing. For that reason gt; frequency measurements with a counter like that are suited as well for ADEV gt; calculation. gt; I've always referred to these style counters as reciprocal counters.. (because the frequency is calculated as the reciprocal of the length of N periods of the input signal). They've been around at least since the 80s, especially for applications where you need short gate time, but measurement precision greater than 1/gate time. It was very popular for applications like intercept receivers in the signals intelligence area before straight digital processing (ADC and FFT) was practical. -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material
Good golly Neville,? you were a young boy in 1910?? Jerry From: Neville Michie lt;namic...@gmail.comgt; Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material A great insight to the static electricity problem came from articles I read as a young boy in old (1910)articles such as make yourself an electrophorous in popular science mags. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Non electrical time-nuttery
The actual quote is: Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Antoine de Saint-Exupery French writer (1900 - 1944) Jerry -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:28:22 +0100 From: J.D. Bakker j...@lartmaker.nl Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Non electrical time-nuttery To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: p06240549c77002e32...@[130.161.115.44] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed -- In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- RFC 1925, Fundamental Truths of Networking -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lady Heather wants to know: How big is your tube?
For some reason Mark hasn't responded yet... I expect he knows how to programatically determine screen size - my assumption, so it's probably wrong... On the other hand, perhaps he's asking for formatting purposes. If everyone is using a 'large' screen, then Lady Heather can be designed to display more information on the 'average' screen real estate without scroll bars or multiple tabs. Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] [Fwd: Re: Racal 1992]
Can you really interpolate this information? Perhaps probable, but there is no guarantee that the tempco for this oscillator is going to be nicely linear. Jerry Hi Ed, I agree with you now that I have looked at it and only assumed that it was a typo by Racal, IE. missing out the per deg C but it could be interpreted as you say and that would give it superior temp stability as compared with the 04B. Cheers, Steve 2009/8/28 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net: Hi Steve, I don't know if this is a typo, but one of the copies of the 1991/1992 manual lists the 04E temperature performance as = 7 x 10e-9 over the range of 0C to 50C. ?i.e. not per degree C. ?That would be the same as =1.4 e -10 per degree C. Could that explain the apparent contradiction of superior construction and inferior temperature performance? ?By the way, do you have any details on the superior construction? Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Accurate 1 pps signals
Message: 5 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: J. Forster j...@quik.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Accurate 1 pps signals To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 1188.12.6.201.167.1250700335.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 OK. Now someone start up a Time-Gnats or a Volts-Gnats List. -John Shirley, you're joking!? The list would have to be called Gnats-Gnuts. Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OCXO sensitive to gravity
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:34:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO sensitive to gravity To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: c537a80798ce331ab1effbc1f05db353.squir...@webmail.sonic.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Tom Duckworth wrote: The orientation change is due more to the earth's magnetic flux effect on the oscillator, and less so from gravity. Tom Tom Duckworth tomd...@comcast.net Sorry, this is simply incorrect. Magnetic flux from the earth has no effect on quartz oscillators. There is no mechanism there. Acceleration definitely affects quartz. Magnetic flux could have an effect on atomic standards, but they normally have magnetic shielding to mitigate this effect. Orientation (or at least acceleration) can affect cesium beam standards because the atoms are flying. Len Cutler put in a fix to mitigate against this in the 5071A CBT. AFAIK, orientation doesn't affect Rb standards. Rick Karlquist N6RK ***? O M G? *** Don't tell me Len pulled their little wings off ! Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?
My impression is that the 10811 update to the 105A/B is just the OCXO. HP apparently decided to standardize on one oscillator for frequency units and therefore created the three-board assembly (one to condition power, one to divide and condition the signal, one to hold everthing together) as a 'plug compatible' drop-in replacement unit for the older 5MHz oscillators (similar size, same push-on connectors, same alignment of the coarse freq control). This 10811 assembly is also used in the Cesium standards. Specs for output: Voltage levels: = 1V rms into 50 ohms. Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Power Back-up
Weather projections for California this winter are WET, which implies local power failures (lasting up to perhaps eight hours). What do time-nuts do for backup power? I have one of the TAPR TBolt systems along with numerous other toys (OCXOs that should probably be kept running to avoid retrace errors). Automobile batteries? UPS inverter systems? Thanks, Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Glass / Metal - it all flows
Hopefully this will end the argument with a time-nuts flavor: http://www.msdlists.com/surrealism/images/full%20size/Dali%20Persistence%20of%20Time.jpg Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SR620 Timing Capacitors
Going to the horses' mouth (hope I got the right end here...), timing capacitors (C701 and C711) in the SRS SR620 counter are 'Ceramic? 100pf? 100v? 5%? C0G'? radial lead capacitors. SRS apologized for any errors - although the part number is correct, the description in the parts database is not. They provided me the manufacturers' part number to cross-reference. Very nice folks to deal with. Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tektronix 603/604, looking for any documentation
Perhaps you could up-end the unit and reflect the display off of an adjustable mirror (front surface, of course...). Jerry Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:35:19 -0800 From: German Alvarez gatoa...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tektronix 603/604, looking for any documentation To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 49a5c7a7.7040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Thanks to everyone in the list. I purchased the operators service manual from www.ArtekMedia.com and after some cleaning and minor adjustments, it is performing as it was 35 years ago. Hats off to the designers of the unit, it is incredible how nice it performs with the duchtronics clock. Now I have to convince my SO that it makes a beautifully mantle clock, specially since the 604 is 20 depth. --ga ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Tbolt temperature sensor
Why the doubt? Couldn't this just be one input to the Kalman filter? Does the external electronics package require the same temperature regulation as the OCXO? Why not put a cold pack on the DS chip and see if the OXCO output swings as wildly as you expect (I think it would be irresponsibly poor design to control the OXCO outside of the crystal component). Perhaps the early units had microdegree resolution for ambient air, but that doesn't mean the application *requires* microdegree resolution. Jerry Message: 6 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:44:08 + From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] Tbolt temperature sensor To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: blu125-w41a5b9f9f57936e392bf0ece...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I doubt the temperature sensor is just used for environmental monitoring. If it was, they would most likely have just used the basic 0.5C resolution reading and have been done with it.Instead, they do the high res read routine and then feed that into a filter to get very smooth high resolution (microdegree scale) values. The whole purpose of a GPSDO with an expensive double oven OCXO is to provide extremely high quality holdover performance when GPS signals go away. To achieve this level of performance one needs to compensate for the affects of temperature on the parts of the system outside the oven. 0.5C resolution is not up to the task of maintaining parts per trillion accuracy. There does not appear to be any other temperature sensor in the Tbolt. Isn't it likely that a temperature sensor adjacent to the RS232 connector is just going to monitor unit temperature for environmental purposes, perhaps, for example, to give the option for flagging up an overheating situation, in which case surely 0.5C resolution is more than adequate and the clunkiness isn't really an issue? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TBolt question
Hi, Just received my TBolt from the TAPR buy and have a quick(?) question: tvb indicated that the unit builds were from ~2005, and indeed, the photo of the TAPR package on Leapsecond.com shows a TBolt from 2005 revision 'E'. The unit I received is build 2002 revision 'B'. Anyone know of differences in the revisions, and whether the OCXO (which Tom found surprisingly excellent) are the same? Thanks, Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Super stable BVA Quartz resonators... BVA??
BTW: I proudly own a HP2801A plus two crystal sensor elements. However I cannot connect them to the instrument, because the 2801A has a special connector for it. It looks like a smaller version of a BNC connector, but the bayonet has three nipples instead of two. Does anyone on the list know what kind of connector that is and where to get the counterpart (plug)? Regards Bernd DK1AG Are you sure the probes are for the 2801A? HP produced several(?) quartz thermometers. What are the connectors currently on the probes, and what are the probe product numbers? Jerry **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
