Re: [time-nuts] Frequency of LC Tank

2014-05-09 Thread NeonJohn


On 04/12/2014 03:23 PM, d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote:
 Magnus,
  You are very much on the track that I was thinking. I belive you are
 absolutly correct in that a 90 degree phase shift would be ideal.


Coming into the conversation kinda late.

Sounds like you're building an induction heater which is what I do
professionally.

You might want to read this page

http://inductionheatertutorial.com/

I gave Jonathan the circuit.  He improved on it and inserted a
microprocessor into the PLL to stabilize it and make it more noise
resistant.  He has some very nice videos on Youtube under the handle
imsmoother.

Here's my page

http://www.neon-john.net/Induction/Index.htm

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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Re: [time-nuts] Arduinos in time and near space

2014-01-20 Thread NeonJohn


On 01/20/2014 01:23 AM, David J Taylor wrote:

 Is it possible to write (assuming the poor little creature would do it) a
 piece of code, that given your lat/long, the time and a two line element
 set for an orbiting object, such as the ISS, that would give you the
 acquisition of signal time/loss of signal time and so forth?

Hey David,

There's an amateur radio program for just that purpose.  Several, in
fact.  Here's one:

http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Software/Satellite_tracking/

The one you want is the AMSAT program.

Probably too much for the Arduino, at least the 8 bit ones.

Here's a peecee utility that has most of what you need.

http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Software/Satellite_tracking/

It started out as a Linux program but the author abandoned it in '94 and
this guy picked it up, improved it and ported it to windoze.  He had
started a backport to Linux.

I liked the program enough that I finished the backport and sent the
results back to the maintainer.  Until he incorporates those changes
into the main program, you can get the Linux version here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81715047/sunwait_linux.tar.gz

You'll have to add the Kepler components but the AMSAT program should
have code that you can use for that purpose.

I know that sunwait will compile for the Arduino because I tried the
port with avrgcc 8 bit version.  I didn't try to load or run it but the
binary is small enough.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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Re: [time-nuts] Spectrum Analyzer Suggestions

2013-07-15 Thread NeonJohn


On 07/15/2013 10:37 AM, David Kirkby wrote:

 I don't know if it is true, but I read somewhere that some of the
 low-end Agilent scopes are made by Rigol. Personally I'd try to work
 around the weight issues of the HP. At least the HP will be fixable,
 whereas the Rigol will most likely be unrepairable in a few years
 time.

True, but at about $300 (and declining with time), who'd want to bother
with anything other than superficial repairs - replace a BNC jack or
clean a button or something?  If it quits, just chunk it in the trash
and get another.

That goes against every molecule of my frugal sensibilities but that's
the name of the game in electronics these days.  Another consideration
is, if a power surge takes out the unit, you don't have a heart attack
like one would with a $20k HP or Tek instrument.

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for low-power system for gps ntp timekeeping

2013-07-02 Thread NeonJohn


On 07/02/2013 02:11 AM, Eric Williams wrote:
 What did they leave out of the hardware?  Hard to tell what to look for
 when it's not there.
 
 Thanks for sharing your experience.

I'm not sure what all is gone other than the USB port since I haven't
bought one.  There is a list of omissions in the mailing list archive,
though.

One other thing I forgot to mention.  There is no voltage regulation or
over-voltage protection on the board.  The 5.0 volt input goes directly
to the TI power management chip.  My white BB would not boot on 5.1
volts.  It required exactly 5.0 volts.  I ended up taking a 9 volt wall
wart and hacking an LM7805 voltage regulator into the positive lead.  I
did not test it for under-voltage but I imagine it's just as sensitive
in that direction.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for low-power system for gps ntp timekeeping

2013-07-02 Thread NeonJohn


On 07/02/2013 02:14 AM, Iain Young wrote:
 On 02/07/13 06:43, NeonJohn wrote:
 

 Basically, the ancient implementation of Angstrom Linux is a POS.  Just
 barely enough code to be able to say, for example, that SPI works.  It
 does - sorta - but not well enough for any application where clock
 timing or jitter matters.
 
 You are not restricted to just Angstrom. My fleet run Debian. FreeBSD is
 also available. First thing I do is blow away Angstrom from any SD card.

Yeah, and so is Ubuntu.  So if you want to become a Linux (kernel)
hacker instead of concentrating on your application, a BB is just for
you.  OTOH, if you expect it to just work out of the box like the
Arduino and many other boards do, you'll be sorely disappointed.

One other thing I forgot to mention.  BeagleBoard actively discourages
volume purchases and commercial use.  Circuitco, the company that
actually makes the BB will sell into commercial applications but at a
considerably higher price.

Finally https://www.gumstix.com/ offers a BB white clone with
commercially rated parts for about $100.  Supposedly their Linux
implementation is much better supported, though I have no personal
experience.

One positive thing is that TI offers something called StarterWare for
people who don't want to bother with an OS.  It abstracts much of the
intricacies of the bare metal.  I downloaded a copy and took a look and
was fairly impressed but by then I knew that a commercial grade board
was going to cost in the $100 range so I had already abandoned the product.

John



-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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Re: [time-nuts] Quartz crystal aging and applied voltage

2013-07-01 Thread NeonJohn


On 06/30/2013 08:34 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 U….. eer…..
 
 Natural quartz is great stuff for making resonators. In many ways
 it's better than synthetic quartz. About the only thing natural is
 worse for is radiation. Natural quartz comes from all over the world.
 Most of the US supply comes from / came from Arkansas. If anything
 natural quartz with it's thousands of years growing process is
 lower stress and lower aging stuff.

Interesting factoid.  There is a WWII vintage quartz mine about 3 miles
from where I live up here in the Tellico mountains in TN.  They cut into
solid rock about 25 feet and then went straight down with a shaft about
15 ft in diameter.  Unfortunately when the mine played out, they filled
it in, all but the entrance.  Some of the quartz still visible is beautiful.

John



-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for low-power system for gps ntp timekeeping

2013-07-01 Thread NeonJohn
Before anyone wastes his money on a BeagleBone, I suggest you join the
mailing list and read the hundreds of messages each day that pass
through, most of them citing problems, mostly with the Linux implementation.

Basically, the ancient implementation of Angstrom Linux is a POS.  Just
barely enough code to be able to say, for example, that SPI works.  It
does - sorta - but not well enough for any application where clock
timing or jitter matters.

I had intended to embed the BB white in my next revision induction
heater.  After several months of frustration and a considerable amount
of money to a kernel programmer to write drivers that actually worked, I
gave up.  I could easily had a man-year in the application that I can do
bare metal in a few months.

The thing that finally canned the BB for me was the short SD card life.
 Even though the implementation uses a virtualized root file system, it
still writes to the SD card about once a second.  The result is that
even industrial grade SD cards rarely live over a year.  With the Black
they tried to address the problem by putting some NAND memory on board
but that only prolongs the problem and with components that are not
easily changed.

A final negative is the support.  The team member, a guy named Gerald,
who provides official support on the mailing lists is one of the most
hateful persons I've encountered on the net. No, I never personally had
an encounter with him but I daily shook my head in amazement that TI
would let such a person rep them.

PS: Before you go to buy the Black, take a careful look at what all they
left off in an effort to compete with the Pi.

PSS:  I have a couple of Whites, one unopened, and a prototyping board
for sale.  Cheap :-)

John



On 07/01/2013 11:14 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
 Thanks.  I didn't know there were two kinds.  This is more useful for only
 $5 more.


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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[time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)

2013-03-28 Thread NeonJohn


On 03/25/2013 09:36 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

 One reason is that if one DOES release source, one will wind up
 supporting it, because generally, we all nice people and helpful, and
 it's hard to tell someone no when they send an email asking how to get
 it to compile on Version N+3 when you used version N, etc.  This can be
 a real distraction from whatever else you are doing.

Boy, you can say that again.  And open source hardware is even worse.  A
couple of years ago I put up an open source induction heater on my site.
 Everything included - schematics, board layouts, CAD files, theory of
operation, how to wind the transformer - in short, everything I could
think of.  There's even a kit available from Fluxeon.com.

Yet I probably spend an hour a day responding to emails about that
project.  Approximately 100% of the questions are either answered on my
site or by a little googling.  It's getting to be enough of a burden
that I'm considering taking the page down.

I'm a dedicated supporter of Open Source but this experience has
tempered my enthusiasm a bit.

 And then there's the folks who argue with you about your implementation
 or coding style.

Or electrical design style.  I think that the people who want to argue
design, especially what if I did this? type arguments are more
tiresome than the software know-it-alls.

People need to really think and do their Google homework before hitting
the email button on a project site.

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77
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Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes

2012-04-16 Thread NeonJohn


On 04/16/2012 03:46 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:

 What's the quality of those chinese scopes?

I have one of the Rigol 2 channel 100 MHz 1GHz sampling rate scopes.
Can't recall the model number.  It's the one that either HP or Tek
private labels.

It is superb.  It was with great sadness that I removed my Tek 465 and a
more modern 4 channel unit from my bench and now have them covered and
stored in the back corner of my shop.  I just don't need them.

There is a rumor that one also needs an analog scope.  While that was
true with my FlukeScope, it is not with the Rigol.  It has the look and
feel of an analog storage scope but without the bloom or fade.

Disclaimer: I design induction heaters and so deal mostly with low
frequency (20MHz) stuff.  I do have one of those scope testers that Tek
used to hand out.  The Rigol looks just like the pictures in the manual
that came with the tester.

John


John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic capture, anyone?

2012-02-26 Thread NeonJohn
I use professionally.  It was the best that our small company could
afford.  Here are some tips that will save you mucho grief.

1) This is the biggie.  Make your own parts library.  Then put any part
that you have to create in that library.  As well, put a copy of any
standard library part in your library AFTER you've verified that the
part, especially the footprint is valid.  Then put that library under
SubVersion or whatever version control system you use.

I call my library 00johh.lbr.  The 00 makes it appear first in the
library list.

2) another biggie.  Validate any part that you take from an Eagle
library.  They are recklessly careless with those parts.  I've found
silk screens on the solder side and even individual pins on the wrong
side.  I lost a board run only once because of this but it was enough to
make me extremely paranoid.

3) LOOK AT YOUR GERBERS!  It takes a pretty long while and it's tedious
work (I print mine out on an 11X17 printer and check off every feature
with a highlighter as I go) but it's vital.  Eagle doesn't always
produce Gerbers like the board appears on the screen.  Especially if you
get caught by #2 above.

I use gerbv which is a Linux tool but I think there's a version for the
mac's almost-unix OS.

John


On 02/26/2012 02:12 PM, Jim Hickstein wrote:
 In case anyone is following my progress, I started with EAGLE.  It works
 fine on the Mac.  I can tell it's not quite native (it even has a man(1)
 page!), but it's no problem.  One afternoon with the tutorial, and I
 have a schematic.

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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Re: [time-nuts] Tek high voltage probes

2011-09-22 Thread NeonJohn


On 09/21/2011 04:57 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
 Howsabout HFC-236fa - very similar properties to R114 but not banned. 

 Tektronix used a Freon in their 40 KV High Voltage probes. The Vapor 
 pressure of some of those compounds is low at 70F, but they do have to 
 be sealed.

I use several of the Tek probes in my work (and of course am too cheap
to buy the newer solid dielectric ones).  When my freon ran out, I
searched around for a replacement fluid and found ordinary butane
straight from the Ronsonol can to be equal to or maybe even better than
the original freon.

About a decade ago I wrote up a procedure on how to do the fill without
introducing condensate into the chamber.  I posted it to Usenet.  I
think that it's archived at http://yarchive.net.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] Tek high voltage probes

2011-09-22 Thread NeonJohn
It's going on 10 years now since I last filled a probe.  That's the
major advantage of butane.  It doesn't diffuse out like the freon did.


On 09/22/2011 01:53 PM, Jose Camara wrote:
 John:
 
   One big difference is that when most of the butane leaked out and
 air leaked in, you'd get a very clear indication when arcs occur.  I
 wouldn't want to be holding it.


-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] Motorola RLN-4394A GPS antenna

2011-09-04 Thread NeonJohn


On 09/04/2011 04:32 PM, David Garnier wrote:

 there should be a way to stop this gaming of the search engine.  Ideas?

Just add -ebay and -e-bay without the quotes to your search string.
 That makes sleazebay disappear from your screen.  If you have a google
account, you can plug those strings into your config so that the
exclusion is automatic.

John

-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] Three Phase Power

2011-06-28 Thread NeonJohn


On 06/28/2011 08:16 AM, Will Matney wrote:

 Things like this, make me think, that these smart meters need to be
 policed, if we don't want to end up being royaly screwed. Making sure the
 timing is correct, on any of the meters, is the same as demanding
 calibration for any piece of equipment like scales, etc, and it ought ot be
 done more, since money changes hands.

Being a former utility engineer and a closet meter nut (anyone else have
a revenue meter calibration bench in his lab? :-), I thought I'd comment
on this.

Federal regulations require that smart meters be manually read once a
year.  That will re-sync things if the electronic reportage gets out of
whack.

That solves only one of the many problems with electronic meters.  Let's
say lightning hits hard enough to blow the meter apart.  With the old
mechanical meters, at least a last reading could be taken from the
mechanical register.  With the electronic meter, if the LCD is even
still intact, it's just laying there blank.

A client utility recently rolled out about 80,000 electronic meters with
no pilot program or prior testing.  It has been an unmitigated disaster.
 Over 10% initial failure rate, probably from infant mortality.
Automatic reading has been spotty at best.  The selected system uses a
ZigBee-based mesh network which in a rural setting doesn't work very
well.  The utility has has to hire a contractor to handle customer
complaints.

I got a batch of 100 of the old decommissioned mechanical meters.  I
wanted to test them to see how accurate they are.  Some are over 30
years old.  I'm about half way through the batch and have yet to find
one more than about 1.5% out.  This is what I expected from past experience.

The electrical Co-Op that serves me did it the smart way.  They deployed
the Turtle system.  This is a system that retrofits to the mechanical
meter with a photocell to count wheel revolutions.  It sends the reading
back over the power line using a modulation scheme that I have yet to be
able to discover.  They're pretty tight lipped about that.

From what I hear from talking to the field engineers, this has been a
highly successful roll-out with very few complaints.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
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Re: [time-nuts] alkali metals and water

2011-03-03 Thread NeonJohn


On 03/03/2011 02:52 AM, Robert Atkinson wrote:
 Hmm, Anyone else remember Sodium-Sulphur secondary batteries? they
 were proposed for electric vehicles in the late 70's I rode on a
 prototype at Chloride. You have to heat them up to melt both the
 Sodium and the Sulphur to make them work (about 270 deg C). Always
 sounded like a bad mixture to me.

Far from dead.  They're getting fairly widespread deployment as static
peak shavers for utilities.  Cheaper than gas turbines, can be located
anywhere and make no noise.

Lots of noises being made about resurrecting the chemistry for
automotive use.  packaged in vacuum containers, there is very minimal
heat input requirement and that is usually supplied by normal charge and
discharge cycles.

John


-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum

2010-08-25 Thread NeonJohn


On 08/25/2010 09:48 AM, J. Forster wrote:
 If your objective is to make a Wiki for Time-Nuts topics, why not do just
 that. There are Wiki Builder packages out there and IMO an easily
 searchable archive of Group posts would be a good thing.
 
 It's unclear to me how many will have time to read both emails and a
 forum. I certainly don't.

Echo that.  I hate fora with a passion.

John

-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

2010-01-30 Thread NeonJohn


Chuck Harris wrote:

 I have several rooms that are lit exclusively with CFL's, and I find
 that for best life, I have to leave them on all the time.  That is what
 EPA has found too!  CFL's may take less power for a given illumination,
 but the owners leave them on far longer than incandescent, and the net
 result is greater power consumption overall.

Here's an interesting bit of opposite experience.  When I had a
restaurant, I had a walk-in freezer.  I wanted to know when the
compressor was running so I wired a light socket across the compressor
contactor coil terminals and located it where I could see it from the
dining room where I sat when not busy.

I tried all sorts of light in that thing. Long life, rough duty, pilot
light, none of them could stand the 2-3 times an hour cycling.  Then I
installed a little 7 watt organ pipe CFL.  It lasted over 5 years and
was still going strong when I closed the restaurant.

 
 Add that to the mandatory drop of mercury in each, and I really can't
 see how they can sell them at all.

Now Chuck, don't go getting all chemophobic on us now!

 
 I got two for free from my power company (They hid the charge on my
 bill, until the courts made them reverse it...) and included with the
 CFL's was an elaborate procedure for cleaning up a broken CFL.  It involved
 opening all of the windows, and leaving the room for a couple of hours,
 and then, with a gloved hand putting the pieces on newspaper, and folding
 the newspaper up and putting it in a 1 gallon zip lock baggie.  To clean up
 the broken bits, you are supposed to vacuum the area with a fresh vacuum
 cleaner bag, and then put the vacuum cleaner bag in a ziplock baggie, and
 take the remains off to the hazardous waste disposal facility.

That's embarrassing to read, it's so stupid.  Like some meaningless
worship ceremony to mother Gaia or something.

Geez, there's less than 10 milligrams of merc in a 100 watt CFL.  That
is a harmless amount, especially considering that elemental mercury is
fairly harmless.

What'll they come up with next, HAZMAT team if you spill some paint thinner?

John


-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
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Re: [time-nuts] LED Spectra mentioned in time-nuts Digest, Vol 66, Issue 164

2010-01-30 Thread NeonJohn


J. Forster wrote:

 I believe these particular units came from a biomedical analyzer of some
 sort. The gratings (hence the dispersion) can be changed at the factory,
 but it costs something like $500 last seen.

I work with a fellow who makes custom gas discharge lamps (you need a
spectra, he makes the light!) and we bought an OO from the company.
About $2k.  I'd LOVE to have a second one so yes, please post the name
of the guy who had those.

John

-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
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Re: [time-nuts] 4 KV Power Supply Recommendations

2010-01-16 Thread NeonJohn


J. L. Trantham wrote:

 Any thoughts on a source for an external HV power supply for this
 application?

Cheapest way I know is a 3500 volt, 10 ma neon sign transformer and a
high voltage rectifier diode.  The transformer will cost you about $30
new and a replacement diode for a microwave oven can't be over $10 even
at appliance parts dealer rip-off price.

You'll need a variac too, as the rectified voltage will be a bit high
otherwise.

IF you can't find a transformer locally, drop me a note off-list.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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Re: [time-nuts] Power Back-up

2009-08-09 Thread NeonJohn


gsteinb...@aol.com wrote:
 Weather projections for California this winter are WET, which implies
 local power failures (lasting up to perhaps eight hours).
 
 What do time-nuts do for backup power? I have one of the TAPR TBolt
 systems along with numerous other toys (OCXOs that should probably be
 kept running to avoid retrace errors). Automobile batteries? UPS
 inverter systems?


Two kVA UPS backed by a 24 volt, 600 amp-hour battery bank.  That's good
for almost 24 hours at my current loading.  Because I live in a remote
mountain cabin, I depend on electricity for my well water also.
Therefore before a day passes, the 10kVA generator comes out to power up
the well pump, the water heater, the heat pump and the electric stove.
Nine days is the longest that I've been without power.

I have a wood stove insert for my fireplace for heat, the fan of which
is powered from the UPS.  There is an 80 amp charger for the batteries
that is powered up whenever utility or generator power is available.

For backup to the backup, I can use the 4kVA generator in my motorhome
to run everything except the heat pump.

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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Re: [time-nuts] E1938A Schematic

2009-08-04 Thread NeonJohn


Brooke Clarke wrote:
 Hi Adrian:
 
 For the last few days there has been a problem with FireFox.  I too can
 not see the page in Firefox but can with IE6.  This applies to many web
 pages.

Must be winders-related.  Looks fine here under Linux FireFox.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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Re: [time-nuts] Apollo, space and time

2009-07-16 Thread NeonJohn


w...@aol.com wrote:
 Audio can also be found here...
  
 _http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/apollo11_radio/index.html_ 
 (http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/apollo11_radio/index.html) 
  

Anyone know if this audio is downloadable as files?  I'm on Hughsnet and
unfortunately can't stream this stuff for long until I get hit with a
bandwidth penalty.  I have unlimited bandwidth at night.

BTW, another major event happened today.  The Trinity shot that started
the nuclear age happened today in 1945.  Of particular interest to this
group is the timing and data logging techniques used.

John

-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

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