[time-nuts] HP 5061 oven temp Tcouple

[paul swed]

Working with Frankenstein and those C fumes are getting mighty rare.
That said wanted to see what temp the ovens running at. As suggested here
there is a direct reading Tcouple in the C tube.

Looking at the raw wire colors from the tube best guess is a T type because
the actual wire color is copper (-) and silver (+). Not J or K types.
Though I have some T Tcouples and raw wire color looks very close I don't
actually have a meter.
For the heck of it I did connect a K Tcouple meter to it with K wire
extensions. I know very bad and evil. Read 199 uncorrected degrees.

Since the range of 200 F is a small part of the overall range perhaps the
offset deviation is not all that large.

Uncorrected readings suggest 199 F or 91 C. At least not crazy off and I am
running the oven hotter since the tube was dead. This is a regular tube not
a 004 that as much as I can tell really are drained dead.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061 oven temp Tcouple

[paul swed]

Ran the calculations and the offset is 3% high. The ovens running at 89
degrees C.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:56 PM, paul swed  wrote:

> Working with Frankenstein and those C fumes are getting mighty rare.
> That said wanted to see what temp the ovens running at. As suggested here
> there is a direct reading Tcouple in the C tube.
>
> Looking at the raw wire colors from the tube best guess is a T type
> because the actual wire color is copper (-) and silver (+). Not J or K
> types. Though I have some T Tcouples and raw wire color looks very close I
> don't actually have a meter.
> For the heck of it I did connect a K Tcouple meter to it with K wire
> extensions. I know very bad and evil. Read 199 uncorrected degrees.
>
> Since the range of 200 F is a small part of the overall range perhaps the
> offset deviation is not all that large.
>
> Uncorrected readings suggest 199 F or 91 C. At least not crazy off and I
> am running the oven hotter since the tube was dead. This is a regular tube
> not a 004 that as much as I can tell really are drained dead.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
>
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[time-nuts] HP 5061 available, southern NH

[BIll Ezell]

My lab is overflowing, so I'm parting with my HP 5061. I'm offering it 
here before E-pray.


Details:
Very late model, with the much better DC oven controller.
Good CBT, I get lock within 30 mins from cold-start with no adjustments 
at all. Good beam current.
The chassis came from Corby a few years ago, the CBT from a unit I 
picked up elsewhere.
One note, even though the chassis and cards are from one of the last 
production runs, the xtal osc is a classic HP-105.


I'm including a reprinted manual, as well as my reproduction of the 
HP-10638A degausser, details I posted back in 2010. It's a 
microprocessor-based replacement that duplicates the original 
characteristics.


There are a few mods. The power socket has been replaced with a standard 
NEMA socket. The original is available on request.
Also, buttons have been added in a milled recess next to the LED clock 
display so you don't have to open the case to set the time (silly HP 
design).

Again, I can replace that with an original bit if you want.

Make an offer, I really would like to sell to someone near me so I don't 
have to 1) pack it, and 2) you can see it and confirm operation.

You can respond to time-n...@quackers.net.

Thanks, Bill

--
Bill Ezell
--
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck
will be the day they make vacuum cleaners.
Or maybe Windows 10.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061 zeeman frequency experiance

[Magnus Danielson]

On 04/10/11 04:56, paul swed wrote:

Hello to the group.
Still working on the 5061 with a 5060 tube. Have home brewed a new CS oven
controller thats appropriate to the 5060 tube and its working quite well. 2
op amps and a couple of transistors. It handles the 5060s higher current
needs. Average current is 650 ma at 98 ohms for the thermistor.
The zeeman frequency is still bothering me. Granted I may be dealing with a
weak tube.
But I can adjust the cfield and get the various peaks. But they are
small. The normal HP meter is a 50 ua movement.  Using a 25 ua larger scale
meter to monitor the beam current results in,

No modulation 8 ua
Driving 42.82KC at +1dbm I actually see the meter drop to 7.5ua.
Then adjusting the cfield to 20 ma I can see the middle peak at 8.5 ua maybe
a little higher.

Is this the peak? Or better question whats a normal old CBTs beam current
and the peak expectation.
I am wondering if I simply am way down at the edge of usability.
I can adjust the ionizer and get a higher reading just unsure were to stop
at. Burn something out perhaps like the ionizer is the risk.

The other thing is that there is still a drift. You can see the system lock
for about 3-5 minutes then slowly become unstable and slip 5ns. Depending on
the zeeman peak used it goes right or left. The green op light stays on
however so the slips awfully small.


With a very small trick you can sweep your tube using a network analyzer 
and a mixer.


Take the Port 1 of your network analyzer and sweep around 12,6 MHz which 
you insert in replacement of the synthesis frequency. Hook the 10 MHz of 
the crystal to the network analyzer input for additional stability. Use 
the detected signal (as amplified) and control a mixer which takes a bit 
of the 12,6 MHz and feed that to Port 2 of the network analyzer. That 
way you modulate the amplitude.


Should give you an overview of the 7 peaks, there spreading and their 
location.


Note that this also works for spectrum analyzers having a sweep output, 
as no phase is recovered this way anyway.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061 zeeman frequency experiance

[paul swed]

Magnus

But does anyone have comments on the meter approach HP suggested.
I really need to understand whats semi normal for  old tube.

I suspect I may be sitting near the noise floor of the system.

As for the network analyzer I just happen to have a HP 8505 so may give this
a try. Suspect I will see the fingers but very close to the noise floor.
Regards
Paul.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
 wrote:

 On 04/10/11 04:56, paul swed wrote:

 Hello to the group.
 Still working on the 5061 with a 5060 tube. Have home brewed a new CS oven
 controller thats appropriate to the 5060 tube and its working quite well.
 2
 op amps and a couple of transistors. It handles the 5060s higher current
 needs. Average current is 650 ma at 98 ohms for the thermistor.
 The zeeman frequency is still bothering me. Granted I may be dealing with
 a
 weak tube.
 But I can adjust the cfield and get the various peaks. But they are
 small. The normal HP meter is a 50 ua movement.  Using a 25 ua larger
 scale
 meter to monitor the beam current results in,

 No modulation 8 ua
 Driving 42.82KC at +1dbm I actually see the meter drop to 7.5ua.
 Then adjusting the cfield to 20 ma I can see the middle peak at 8.5 ua
 maybe
 a little higher.

 Is this the peak? Or better question whats a normal old CBTs beam current
 and the peak expectation.
 I am wondering if I simply am way down at the edge of usability.
 I can adjust the ionizer and get a higher reading just unsure were to stop
 at. Burn something out perhaps like the ionizer is the risk.

 The other thing is that there is still a drift. You can see the system
 lock
 for about 3-5 minutes then slowly become unstable and slip 5ns. Depending
 on
 the zeeman peak used it goes right or left. The green op light stays on
 however so the slips awfully small.


 With a very small trick you can sweep your tube using a network analyzer
 and a mixer.

 Take the Port 1 of your network analyzer and sweep around 12,6 MHz which
 you insert in replacement of the synthesis frequency. Hook the 10 MHz of the
 crystal to the network analyzer input for additional stability. Use the
 detected signal (as amplified) and control a mixer which takes a bit of the
 12,6 MHz and feed that to Port 2 of the network analyzer. That way you
 modulate the amplitude.

 Should give you an overview of the 7 peaks, there spreading and their
 location.

 Note that this also works for spectrum analyzers having a sweep output, as
 no phase is recovered this way anyway.

 Cheers,
 Magnus

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[time-nuts] HP 5061 zeeman frequency experiance

[cdelect]

The HP spec for an end of life tube is a main peak of 8.5 nanoamp when
measured at the SMA output jack terminated directly into a high impedance
voltmeter. Use the meters input impedance and Ohms law to determine the
current.

However this value is where the tube stability starts to fall below the
short term stability specs. Many tubes can still be used with lower
current if you are using the standard for a long term application.

Corby

 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061

[scmcgrath]

I'd be interested in the electron multiplier and manual
--Original Message--
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
ReplyTo: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061
Sent: Feb 25, 2011 19:53

Cleaning out an attic that I had not touched in ten years I found some HP  
5061A manuals, HP 10811 manuals, AC and DC power cords, plastic feet and 
most  the parts of a unit. If there is interest please contact me directly.
Bert Kehren
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Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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[time-nuts] HP 5061

[EWKehren]

Cleaning out an attic that I had not touched in ten years I found some HP  
5061A manuals, HP 10811 manuals, AC and DC power cords, plastic feet and 
most  the parts of a unit. If there is interest please contact me directly.
Bert Kehren
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061

[John Miles]

Hi, Bert --

If there's a 10811-60109 OCXO, I'd be interested in buying that from you in
the $100 neighborhood.

-- john

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On
 Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com
 Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:54 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061


 Cleaning out an attic that I had not touched in ten years I found
 some HP
 5061A manuals, HP 10811 manuals, AC and DC power cords, plastic feet and
 most  the parts of a unit. If there is interest please contact me
 directly.
 Bert Kehren
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061

[John Miles]

Sorry, thought that was going off-list.  The offer stands to anyone else who
might have any -60109 parts they want to get rid of. :)

-- john, KE5FX

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On
 Behalf Of John Miles
 Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:48 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061


 Hi, Bert --

 If there's a 10811-60109 OCXO, I'd be interested in buying that
 from you in
 the $100 neighborhood.

 -- john

  -Original Message-
  From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On
  Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com
  Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:54 PM
  To: time-nuts@febo.com
  Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061
 
 
  Cleaning out an attic that I had not touched in ten years I found
  some HP
  5061A manuals, HP 10811 manuals, AC and DC power cords, plastic feet and
  most  the parts of a unit. If there is interest please contact me
  directly.
  Bert Kehren
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061 chassis parts

[Dave Carlson]

Chuck,

Sorry to hear you're closing down, after all these years. Drop me a line 
some time and we can talk.

Dave Carlson
(formerly HP, then Agilent)

- Original Message - 
From: serv...@frequencystandards.com
To: Time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 19:38
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061 chassis parts


As some of you already know, I have closed down my frequency standards
business. I am in the slow process of getting rid of things. My time is
not my own right now. As of right now, I have a bunch of chassis parts I
am going to start with. I have some a number of things for the HP 5061s.
This includes unbroken side frames, handles, rack ears, plastic battery
cases, aluminum battery holders, side panels, rear panels, most of the
internal micon cables (not cut, just removed), and about anything else you
can think of. I have a lot of modules but am not ready to sell them until
I am able to test each of them. If you interested in any of the cabinet
parts, let me know off line at serv...@frequencystandards.com. Please do
not put in requests for other stuff at this time. I promise I will let the
list know before anything goes onto Ebay.
Chuck Norton



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[time-nuts] HP 5061 chassis parts

[service]

As some of you already know, I have closed down my frequency standards
business. I am in the slow process of getting rid of things. My time is
not my own right now. As of right now, I have a bunch of chassis parts I
am going to start with. I have some a number of things for the HP 5061s.
This includes unbroken side frames, handles, rack ears, plastic battery
cases, aluminum battery holders, side panels, rear panels, most of the
internal micon cables (not cut, just removed), and about anything else you
can think of. I have a lot of modules but am not ready to sell them until
I am able to test each of them. If you interested in any of the cabinet
parts, let me know off line at serv...@frequencystandards.com. Please do
not put in requests for other stuff at this time. I promise I will let the
list know before anything goes onto Ebay.
Chuck Norton



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[time-nuts] hp 5061 parts question

[Sebastian Stolp]

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A HP 5061 FOR PARTS?
I NEED COVERS, SIDE FRAMES AND HANDLES, ETC.
SEBASTIAN STOLP
BUCKHAUSERSTRASSE 1
CH8048 ZUERICH SWITZERLAND
FROM 01/10/06:
GOETZHUSERWEG 165
CH5245 HABSBURG
+ 41 76 200 00 80
WWW.SEBASTIANSTOLP.COM


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Re: [time-nuts] hp 5061 parts question

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sebastian Stolp writ
es:

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A HP 5061 FOR PARTS?
I NEED COVERS, SIDE FRAMES AND HANDLES, ETC.
SEBASTIAN STOLP

I have one, no idea how to ship it to .ch though...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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