Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you ...

2010-01-28 Thread bg
Hi,

SMC connectors is available over the desk in my hometown - which is a
fairly remote part of our large globe. Price is the same range as
SMA-connectors. 5 sec on Xbay finds 4 connectors and shipping for $15.

How do you connect a single Bias-T to give DC both to splitter and antenna?

--

Björn

 Hi Claude,

 since the SMC jack is also DC-connected to the antenna output (through an
 inductor) to power the antenna, the unit also works well if you feed 4V to
 5V  into the unit through the antenna port!

 That can be done using an L-band-capable standard Bias-T, and  then
 leaving
 the SMC connector open. You may find a Bias-t more easily than  an SMC
 cable.

 BTW: if you do it that way, the upper limit on the voltage is limited by
 the internal Linear Technology voltage regulator, so you can go way above
 5V
 without a problem.

 The unit shouldn't consume more than 25mA or so that way...

 Bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 1/27/2010 16:51:28 Pacific Standard Time, va2...@aei.ca
 writes:

 Hello  !

 I got my unit from a local supplier, it was unused but lacked the  data,
 so thanks to Bjorn (I hope I dindn't mess up his name too much !)  for
 the download link.

 My unit has option 05 external DC  power.

 So far I had no luck in finding an adapter at a decent  price.

 I would rather not open the unit, so if Bob or Magnus would  accept
 selling what they have on hand, I would be  interested.

 Thanks  !

 Claude

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you all

2010-01-28 Thread EB4APL
I was going to offer you a 50 cm cable with a SMC male connector on one 
end for free when I found this
supplier http://www.surplussales.com/Connectors/SMC.html  who sends 
wordlwide without minimum order.  Sure it will cost you less than the 
shipping from Spain, and my cable is 30+ years old.


Regards
Ignacio, EB4APL


Claude Houde wrote:

Hello !

I got my unit from a local supplier, it was unused but lacked the 
data, so thanks to Bjorn (I hope I dindn't mess up his name too much 
!) for the download link.


My unit has option 05 external DC power.

So far I had no luck in finding an adapter at a decent price.

I would rather not open the unit, so if Bob or Magnus would accept 
selling what they have on hand, I would be interested.


Thanks !

Claude

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you

2010-01-28 Thread SAIDJACK
Hi Bjoern,
 
you replace the capacitor inside it with a zero ohm resistor.
 
bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 1/28/2010 05:12:47 Pacific Standard Time,  
b...@lysator.liu.se writes:


SMC  connectors is available over the desk in my hometown - which is a
fairly  remote part of our large globe. Price is the same range as
SMA-connectors.  5 sec on Xbay finds 4 connectors and shipping for $15.

How do you  connect a single Bias-T to give DC both to splitter and  
antenna?

--

Björn
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you

2010-01-28 Thread bg
Hi Said,

In this case, I would rather keep that bias-T intact for other uses. Do
the same replacement on your favorite port on the splitter. Then always
keep a GPS attached there.

--

   Björn

 Hi Bjoern,

 you replace the capacitor inside it with a zero ohm resistor.

 bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 1/28/2010 05:12:47 Pacific Standard Time,
 b...@lysator.liu.se writes:


 SMC  connectors is available over the desk in my hometown - which is a
 fairly  remote part of our large globe. Price is the same range as
 SMA-connectors.  5 sec on Xbay finds 4 connectors and shipping for $15.

 How do you  connect a single Bias-T to give DC both to splitter and
 antenna?

 --

 Björn
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Magnus Danielson

saidj...@aol.com wrote:
I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find the  
mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the 
hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.


It is not impossible. I have a cable suitable for it, but we used SMC in 
a product once, so I had a spare SMC-SMB cable lying around.


Using a SMC for power may be a bit unconventional thought.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Bruce Griffiths

Magnus Danielson wrote:

saidj...@aol.com wrote:
I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to 
find the  mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit 
through the hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for 
me.


It is not impossible. I have a cable suitable for it, but we used SMC 
in a product once, so I had a spare SMC-SMB cable lying around.


Using a SMC for power may be a bit unconventional thought.

Cheers,
Magnus

I have several also, they are actually quite easy to get at this end of 
the Earth.


Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

I found a SMC-BNC adapter of the correct orientation in the bottom of my junk 
box. Somehow I doubt I'll ever use it for anything else. BNC cables and jacks 
are something I can find easily. 

The top of the unit is held on with screws so getting inside it should not be 
very hard. You could swap the SMC out to something that's more common for power 
distribution. Maybe an APC-7 ...

My guess is they used the SMC because it's unusual. That way you don't get a 
cable with 30 VDC on it hooked where it shouldn't go. If you did run a 30 volt 
supply the dc could do some damage. Of course 30 volts on that unit connected 
to a normal antenna would do some damage as well. 

Bob


On Jan 27, 2010, at 1:14 AM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:

 I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find the  
 mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the 
 hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.
 
 bye,
 Said
 
 
 In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,  
 bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:
 
 I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS 
 antenna  between my receivers.
 
 What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power 
 supply connector  ?
 
 Thanks for your help !
 
 Claude
 
 
 According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the  power.
 
 Bruce
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread bg
Hi,

Another option is to remove the DC-block cap on port 1. Then let your
primary GPS power the splitter and upstream antenna.

http://www.to-way.com/tf/hp58516a.pdf

--

   Björn

 Hi

 I found a SMC-BNC adapter of the correct orientation in the bottom of my
 junk box. Somehow I doubt I'll ever use it for anything else. BNC cables
 and jacks are something I can find easily.

 The top of the unit is held on with screws so getting inside it should not
 be very hard. You could swap the SMC out to something that's more common
 for power distribution. Maybe an APC-7 ...

 My guess is they used the SMC because it's unusual. That way you don't get
 a cable with 30 VDC on it hooked where it shouldn't go. If you did run a
 30 volt supply the dc could do some damage. Of course 30 volts on that
 unit connected to a normal antenna would do some damage as well.

 Bob


 On Jan 27, 2010, at 1:14 AM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:

 I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find
 the
 mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the
 hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.

 bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,
 bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:

 I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS
 antenna  between my receivers.

 What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power
 supply connector  ?

 Thanks for your help !

 Claude


 According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the
 power.

 Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

Has anybody torn into one to see how easy/hard that would be? Sometimes HP's
construction techniques are not very hacker friendly..

Since you probably will have multiple GPS's on the gizmo (why have it
otherwise...) Leaving the 200 ohm DC resistors in place does not sound like
a problem. Maybe you short out two of the DC blocks rather than just one.

Bob 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of b...@lysator.liu.se
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

Hi,

Another option is to remove the DC-block cap on port 1. Then let your
primary GPS power the splitter and upstream antenna.

http://www.to-way.com/tf/hp58516a.pdf

--

   Björn

 Hi

 I found a SMC-BNC adapter of the correct orientation in the bottom of my
 junk box. Somehow I doubt I'll ever use it for anything else. BNC cables
 and jacks are something I can find easily.

 The top of the unit is held on with screws so getting inside it should not
 be very hard. You could swap the SMC out to something that's more common
 for power distribution. Maybe an APC-7 ...

 My guess is they used the SMC because it's unusual. That way you don't get
 a cable with 30 VDC on it hooked where it shouldn't go. If you did run a
 30 volt supply the dc could do some damage. Of course 30 volts on that
 unit connected to a normal antenna would do some damage as well.

 Bob


 On Jan 27, 2010, at 1:14 AM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:

 I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find
 the
 mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the
 hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.

 bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,
 bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:

 I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS
 antenna  between my receivers.

 What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power
 supply connector  ?

 Thanks for your help !

 Claude


 According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the
 power.

 Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Dan Rae

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Has anybody torn into one to see how easy/hard that would be? Sometimes HP's
construction techniques are not very hacker friendly..
  



Bob, I had to do that because my 8 way version came from the swap meet 
fried ( it was only $5).  The circuitry inside is very obvious since it 
is all surface mount. 

Since you probably will have multiple GPS's on the gizmo (why have it
otherwise...) Leaving the 200 ohm DC resistors in place does not sound like
a problem. Maybe you short out two of the DC blocks rather than just one.

  
 Converting it to be powered from the No 1 output is easy, but you do 
NOT want to try to power the antenna from two outputs. Unless you want a 
schizoid divider.


Dan


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

I'm sitting here looking at the spec sheet for the splitter:

A normal four way splitter should have a loss of a bit over 6 db. 

The reason that's bad is that it may degrade the noise figure at your
otherwise perfect receiver (and sub 1 db noise figure antenna) by 6 db. (it
may also do absolutely nothing bad at all)

The splitter has a rated noise figure of 7 db max / 5 db typical.

It has a gain that may be a loss of 3 db or a gain of 3 db.

Worst case, it's got a -3db gain and a 7 db noise figure. It may degrade the
noise figure at the receiver by 10 db. Best case it's got 3 db of gain and a
5 db noise figure. That's still a noise figure hit of 5 db. 

All of that is pretty easy to blow holes in as far as a real / normally
operating system is concerned. I *think* it's pretty close in the limit case
though. 

If it is close, then the part (yes I bought one to) might improve things by
1 db. It also might degrade things by 4 db under the worst case conditions
where it likely matters.

Am I missing something here? Obviously it does more than split. It may have
better isolation than a conventional splitter. It also has the cute little
DC loads in it. 

Seems like a little bit more RF gain might have been a good idea.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of b...@lysator.liu.se
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

Hi,

Another option is to remove the DC-block cap on port 1. Then let your
primary GPS power the splitter and upstream antenna.

http://www.to-way.com/tf/hp58516a.pdf

--

   Björn

 Hi

 I found a SMC-BNC adapter of the correct orientation in the bottom of my
 junk box. Somehow I doubt I'll ever use it for anything else. BNC cables
 and jacks are something I can find easily.

 The top of the unit is held on with screws so getting inside it should not
 be very hard. You could swap the SMC out to something that's more common
 for power distribution. Maybe an APC-7 ...

 My guess is they used the SMC because it's unusual. That way you don't get
 a cable with 30 VDC on it hooked where it shouldn't go. If you did run a
 30 volt supply the dc could do some damage. Of course 30 volts on that
 unit connected to a normal antenna would do some damage as well.

 Bob


 On Jan 27, 2010, at 1:14 AM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:

 I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find
 the
 mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the
 hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.

 bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,
 bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:

 I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS
 antenna  between my receivers.

 What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power
 supply connector  ?

 Thanks for your help !

 Claude


 According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the
 power.

 Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread jmfranke
The noise figure hit may be nowhere as bad as 5dB because it depends on the 
noise figure and gain of the antenna preamplifier, not just the noise 
figure.


John WA4WDL

--
From: Bob Camp li...@cq.nu
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:34 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
time-nuts@febo.com

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information


Hi

I'm sitting here looking at the spec sheet for the splitter:

A normal four way splitter should have a loss of a bit over 6 db.

The reason that's bad is that it may degrade the noise figure at your
otherwise perfect receiver (and sub 1 db noise figure antenna) by 6 db. 
(it

may also do absolutely nothing bad at all)

The splitter has a rated noise figure of 7 db max / 5 db typical.

It has a gain that may be a loss of 3 db or a gain of 3 db.

Worst case, it's got a -3db gain and a 7 db noise figure. It may degrade 
the
noise figure at the receiver by 10 db. Best case it's got 3 db of gain and 
a

5 db noise figure. That's still a noise figure hit of 5 db.

All of that is pretty easy to blow holes in as far as a real / normally
operating system is concerned. I *think* it's pretty close in the limit 
case

though.

If it is close, then the part (yes I bought one to) might improve things 
by

1 db. It also might degrade things by 4 db under the worst case conditions
where it likely matters.

Am I missing something here? Obviously it does more than split. It may 
have

better isolation than a conventional splitter. It also has the cute little
DC loads in it.

Seems like a little bit more RF gain might have been a good idea.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of b...@lysator.liu.se
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

Hi,

Another option is to remove the DC-block cap on port 1. Then let your
primary GPS power the splitter and upstream antenna.

   http://www.to-way.com/tf/hp58516a.pdf

--

  Björn


Hi

I found a SMC-BNC adapter of the correct orientation in the bottom of my
junk box. Somehow I doubt I'll ever use it for anything else. BNC cables
and jacks are something I can find easily.

The top of the unit is held on with screws so getting inside it should 
not

be very hard. You could swap the SMC out to something that's more common
for power distribution. Maybe an APC-7 ...

My guess is they used the SMC because it's unusual. That way you don't 
get

a cable with 30 VDC on it hooked where it shouldn't go. If you did run a
30 volt supply the dc could do some damage. Of course 30 volts on that
unit connected to a normal antenna would do some damage as well.

Bob


On Jan 27, 2010, at 1:14 AM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:


I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find
the
mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the
hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.

bye,
Said


In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,
bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:


I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS
antenna  between my receivers.

What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power
supply connector  ?

Thanks for your help !

Claude



According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the
power.

Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

I think the big issue with two receivers is if one of them powers down and
the other stays up. Then you try to back feed the one that's power down.
That may or may not be good for it's health. I'd hope there's a diode or
something like a diode in the DC path to protect it. It would be pretty easy
to double check.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Rae
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi

 Has anybody torn into one to see how easy/hard that would be? Sometimes
HP's
 construction techniques are not very hacker friendly..
   


Bob, I had to do that because my 8 way version came from the swap meet 
fried ( it was only $5).  The circuitry inside is very obvious since it 
is all surface mount. 
 Since you probably will have multiple GPS's on the gizmo (why have it
 otherwise...) Leaving the 200 ohm DC resistors in place does not sound
like
 a problem. Maybe you short out two of the DC blocks rather than just one.

   
  Converting it to be powered from the No 1 output is easy, but you do 
NOT want to try to power the antenna from two outputs. Unless you want a 
schizoid divider.

Dan


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-27 Thread bg
Hi Bob,

If you get a smart splitter they might have a network option or even
as standard take DC for the antenna from any port on the splitter.

This is from http://www.symmetricom.com/link.cfm?lid=4907

The purpose of the micro-controller is to sense the bias voltage
present on each of the output ports, and it always selects the
lowest numbered port (1, 2, 3 or 4) to supply power to the
splitter and to the GPS antenna. Each of the three remaining
ports is configured by the micro-controller to sink a “standby”
current of 25mA @5V.

--

Björn

 Hi

 I think the big issue with two receivers is if one of them powers down and
 the other stays up. Then you try to back feed the one that's power down.



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[time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you all

2010-01-27 Thread Claude Houde

Hello !

I got my unit from a local supplier, it was unused but lacked the data, 
so thanks to Bjorn (I hope I dindn't mess up his name too much !) for 
the download link.


My unit has option 05 external DC power.

So far I had no luck in finding an adapter at a decent price.

I would rather not open the unit, so if Bob or Magnus would accept 
selling what they have on hand, I would be interested.


Thanks !

Claude

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information - Thank you ...

2010-01-27 Thread SAIDJACK
Hi Claude,
 
since the SMC jack is also DC-connected to the antenna output (through an  
inductor) to power the antenna, the unit also works well if you feed 4V to 
5V  into the unit through the antenna port!
 
That can be done using an L-band-capable standard Bias-T, and  then leaving 
the SMC connector open. You may find a Bias-t more easily than  an SMC 
cable.
 
BTW: if you do it that way, the upper limit on the voltage is limited by  
the internal Linear Technology voltage regulator, so you can go way above 5V  
without a problem.
 
The unit shouldn't consume more than 25mA or so that way...
 
Bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 1/27/2010 16:51:28 Pacific Standard Time, va2...@aei.ca  
writes:

Hello  !

I got my unit from a local supplier, it was unused but lacked the  data, 
so thanks to Bjorn (I hope I dindn't mess up his name too much !)  for 
the download link.

My unit has option 05 external DC  power.

So far I had no luck in finding an adapter at a decent  price.

I would rather not open the unit, so if Bob or Magnus would  accept 
selling what they have on hand, I would be  interested.

Thanks  !

Claude

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[time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-26 Thread Claude Houde

Hello !

I'm using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS 
antenna between my receivers.


What is the proper part number or connector name  for the power supply 
connector ?


Thanks for your help !

Claude

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier information

2010-01-26 Thread SAIDJACK
I recommend un-screwing that SMC since it is almost impossible to find the  
mate, and feeding two wires from a 5V supply into the unit through the 
hole, and  soldering the wires to the PCB. Works well for me.
 
bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 1/26/2010 18:36:18 Pacific Standard Time,  
bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:

 I'm  using an HP 58516A GPS distribution amplifier to share my GPS 
 antenna  between my receivers.

 What is the proper part number or  connector name  for the power 
 supply connector  ?

 Thanks for your help !

  Claude


According to the datasheet option 05 uses an SMC  connector for the  power.

Bruce


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