Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

Thank you - I've downloaded it and it looks very interesting - I guess
I need to dig out my RS232-RS422 converter and have a play.

Regards,

Pete


On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:35 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> All that's interested, KO4BB now has my RFTGm information on his manuals
> section under GPS Timing.  Please let me know if you have questions about
> it.  73's, Doug, K4CLE
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: "Randy D. Hunt" 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
> Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 16:53:04 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> On 10/11/2011 6:28 PM, Peter Bell wrote:
>>
>> For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
>> tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
>> timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
>> 43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
>> and they are being violated in some way.
>>
>> Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
>> positve sign :)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>
>>> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of
>
> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time
> you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and
> if within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably
> why it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>>>
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
>
> measurement
>>>
>>> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
>>> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
>>> and got a position fix.
>>>
>>> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
>>> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
>>> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
>>> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
>>> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
>>> went out.
>>>
>>> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any
>
> sats.  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into
> the receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using
> should be OK.
>>>>
>>>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I
>
> know I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>>>
>>>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be
>
> able to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was
> designed for RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I
> use a little RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>>>>
>>>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the
>
> newer units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>>>>
>>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>>
>>>> -Original message-
>>>> From: Peter Bell
>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
>
> measurement
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is
>
> supposed
>>>>>
>>>>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.
>>>>>
>
> AT&T
>>>>>
>>>>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now
>
> provided by
>>>>>
>>>>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel
>
> GPS
>>>>>
>>>>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from
>

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[k4...@aol.com]

All that's interested, KO4BB now has my RFTGm information on his manuals  
section under GPS Timing.  Please let me know if you have questions about  
it.  73's, Doug, K4CLE


Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: "Randy D. Hunt" 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  


Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 16:53:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

On 10/11/2011 6:28 PM, Peter Bell wrote:

For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
and they are being violated in some way.

Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
positve sign :)


On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of  
position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time  
you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and  
if within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably  
why it took a while for the LED to extinguish.


Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency  

measurement

Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
and got a position fix.

Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
went out.

Next step is getting the Rb working :)


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any  
sats.  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into  
the receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using  
should be OK.


I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I  

know I have the software too, just need to find it!


I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be  
able to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was  
designed for RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I  
use a little RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.


The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the  

newer units.  So, you have the more recent design.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency  

measurement

Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is  

supposed
to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.   

AT&T
(Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now  

provided by
PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel  

GPS
receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from  

the
same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let  

me

know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.


Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

Thank you for making this information available - trying to work on
something without docs can be interesting, but can also end up
sometimes being frustrating.

The ultimate aim is to put my spare Oncore UT+ and a little MCU inside
the RB unit so it can be directly GPS disciplined without having to
use the XO.- but I guess this will require a little reverse
engineering to figure out exactly what messages the RB is looking for,
and what mode the GPS needs to be in to do this.

I've logged the data from power up to with the unit in it's expected
position and it doesn;t look like there are that many commands being
sent to the receiver - my next step is taking the unit to my friends
house and running it there to force it to trigger another site survey
so I can log the messages under those conditions.

I guess it all passes the time :)

Regards,

Pete


On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Peter, that's good news.  Sounds like you have a plan.  I am sending a CD to 
> KO4BB to put the drawings and softwre on his site where everyone can download 
> it.  Regards, Doug, K4CLE
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 08:02:24 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> Much as I hate to follow up on my own post, I just power cycled the
> unit and it quickly went from 2D->3D->Position Hold with the "No GPS"
> LED out. So maybe it just ended up in slighly confused state after
> doing the site survey and now it's got the position stored it's doing
> the right thing.
>
> Looking at the "negative sawtooth" page in WinOncore it's showing
> about +/- 40ns of jitter and tracking nicely.
>
> So I guess i had better start working on the Rb :)
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Peter Bell  wrote:
>> For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
>> tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
>> timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
>> 43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
>> and they are being violated in some way.
>>
>> Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
>> positve sign :)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
>>> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next 
>>> time you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one 
>>> and if within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's 
>>> probably why it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>>>
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
>>> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
>>> and got a position fix.
>>>
>>> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
>>> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
>>> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
>>> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
>>> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
>>> went out.
>>>
>>> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any 
>>>> sats.  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into 
>>>> the receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using 
>>>> should be OK.
>>>>
>>>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I 
>>>> know I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>>>
>>>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able 
>>>> to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed 
>>>> for RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a 
>>>> little RS422-4S232 converter whi

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[k4...@aol.com]

Peter, that's good news.  Sounds like you have a plan.  I am sending a CD to 
KO4BB to put the drawings and softwre on his site where everyone can download 
it.  Regards, Doug, K4CLE

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 08:02:24 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

Much as I hate to follow up on my own post, I just power cycled the
unit and it quickly went from 2D->3D->Position Hold with the "No GPS"
LED out. So maybe it just ended up in slighly confused state after
doing the site survey and now it's got the position stored it's doing
the right thing.

Looking at the "negative sawtooth" page in WinOncore it's showing
about +/- 40ns of jitter and tracking nicely.

So I guess i had better start working on the Rb :)

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Peter Bell  wrote:
> For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
> tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
> timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
> 43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
> and they are being violated in some way.
>
> Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
> positve sign :)
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
>> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
>> you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and 
>> if within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably 
>> why it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -Original message-----
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
>> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
>> and got a position fix.
>>
>> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
>> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
>> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
>> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
>> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
>> went out.
>>
>> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any 
>>> sats.  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into 
>>> the receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using 
>>> should be OK.
>>>
>>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I 
>>> know I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>>
>>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able 
>>> to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed 
>>> for RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a 
>>> little RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>>>
>>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
>>> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>>>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  
>>>> AT&T
>>>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>>>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>>>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>>>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>>>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Randy D. Hunt]

On 10/11/2011 6:28 PM, Peter Bell wrote:

For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
and they are being violated in some way.

Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
positve sign :)


On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:

If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and if 
within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably why it 
took a while for the LED to extinguish.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
and got a position fix.

Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
went out.

Next step is getting the Rb working :)


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:

Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.  
You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the receiver 
front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should be OK.

I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know I 
have the software too, just need to find it!

I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for RS422 
and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little RS422-4S232 
converter which has worked fine for me.

The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
units.  So, you have the more recent design.
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:

Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
(Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.


Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.

I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
 (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
matt

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

Much as I hate to follow up on my own post, I just power cycled the
unit and it quickly went from 2D->3D->Position Hold with the "No GPS"
LED out. So maybe it just ended up in slighly confused state after
doing the site survey and now it's got the position stored it's doing
the right thing.

Looking at the "negative sawtooth" page in WinOncore it's showing
about +/- 40ns of jitter and tracking nicely.

So I guess i had better start working on the Rb :)

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Peter Bell  wrote:
> For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
> tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
> timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
> 43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
> and they are being violated in some way.
>
> Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
> positve sign :)
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
>> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
>> you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and 
>> if within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably 
>> why it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -Original message-----
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
>> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
>> and got a position fix.
>>
>> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
>> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
>> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
>> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
>> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
>> went out.
>>
>> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any 
>>> sats.  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into 
>>> the receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using 
>>> should be OK.
>>>
>>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I 
>>> know I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>>
>>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able 
>>> to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed 
>>> for RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a 
>>> little RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>>>
>>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
>>> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>>>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  
>>>> AT&T
>>>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>>>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>>>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>>>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>>>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>>
>>>> -Original message-
>>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>>
>>>> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
>>>&g

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
and they are being violated in some way.

Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
positve sign :)


On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
> you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and if 
> within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably why 
> it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
> and got a position fix.
>
> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
> went out.
>
> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats. 
>>  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
>> receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should 
>> be OK.
>>
>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
>> I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>
>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able 
>> to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
>> RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
>> RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>>
>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
>> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -Original message-
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
>>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
>>> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
>>> anyone might have any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
>>> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
>>> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
>>> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
>>> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>>>
>>> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
>>> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
>>> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>>>
>>> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to t

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

For some reason, the "No GPS" LED is back - although the GPS is
tracking 8 satellites in 3D mode and according to the TRAIM status the
timing error is below the alarm threshhold (alarm = 1300ns, current =
43ns) - I guess the uinit has it's own standards for the GPS quality,
and they are being violated in some way.

Still. at ;least I have seen it running with that LED off, which is a
positve sign :)


On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
> position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
> you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and if 
> within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably why 
> it took a while for the LED to extinguish.
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
> little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
> and got a position fix.
>
> Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
> stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
> that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
> happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
> was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
> went out.
>
> Next step is getting the Rb working :)
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats. 
>>  You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
>> receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should 
>> be OK.
>>
>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
>> I have the software too, just need to find it!
>>
>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able 
>> to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
>> RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
>> RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>>
>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
>> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -Original message-
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
>>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
>>> -Original message-
>>> From: Peter Bell 
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>>
>>> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
>>> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
>>> anyone might have any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
>>> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
>>> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
>>> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
>>> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>>>
>>> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
>>> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
>>> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>>>
>>> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to t

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[k4...@aol.com]

If I recall, the firmware in the RFTGm collects about an hours worth of 
position info and does an average to establish a self-survey.  The next time 
you cycle power, it will check the new position against the stored one and if 
within 50 feet or so, it will use the stored position.  That's probably why it 
took a while for the LED to extinguish.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:49:45 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
and got a position fix.

Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
went out.

Next step is getting the Rb working :)


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.  
> You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
> receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should 
> be OK.
>
> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
> I have the software too, just need to find it!
>
> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
> use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
> RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
> RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>
> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -----Original message-
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
>> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
>> anyone might have any suggestions.
>>
>> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
>> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
>> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
>> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
>> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>>
>> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
>> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
>> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>>
>> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
>> out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
>> maybe it's a known issue first.
>>
> Hi, Doug
>
> I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
> antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
> spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
> and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.
>
> I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
> and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
>  (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
> antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
> matter how long you leave it it still says it's tra

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

The Rx was defective - I just got the new one, hooked it up to my
little test rig anf the antenna, and it happily picked up satellites
and got a position fix.

Swapped it into the box, and found a TTL level copy of the RX data
stream from the encore on pin 2 of the interface connector, so hooked
that up to a TTL->RS232 converter so I could monitor what was
happening.  It all seemed to be tracking OK, although the "No GPS" LED
was still on, so I just left it and after a couple of hours the LED
went out.

Next step is getting the Rb working :)


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.  
> You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
> receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should 
> be OK.
>
> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
> I have the software too, just need to find it!
>
> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
> use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
> RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
> RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>
> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
> units.  So, you have the more recent design.
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
>> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
>> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
>> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
>> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
>> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
>> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>> -Original message-
>> From: Peter Bell 
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>>
>> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
>> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
>> anyone might have any suggestions.
>>
>> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
>> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
>> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
>> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
>> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>>
>> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
>> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
>> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>>
>> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
>> out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
>> maybe it's a known issue first.
>>
> Hi, Doug
>
> I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
> antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
> spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
> and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.
>
> I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
> and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
>  (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
> antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
> matter how long you leave it it still says it's tracking 0 satellites,
> although it happiy generates status reports.
>
> I wonder if this UT+ version is expecially sensitive to the antenna?
> I remember that the oncore VP would work with pretty much anything you
> hooked up to it.  Of course, it's equally possible that the GPS module
> is defective.
>
> I'm tending towards broken - I also got an RTFG-m-RB with this unit,
> and that has a faulty LPRO-101 in it (it's probably fixable - it looks
> like the FET that heats up the Rb cell had gone open circuit) - and
> the two units toget

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

Have you got any pointers?  The only document I could find was a
"repair guide" prepared by PE1FBO - and whiile it's certainly useful
(especially for the specific purpose of getting my unit running), it's
not the original Efratom info.  Maybe it's my history in the avionics
business, but I really like to use official docs if possible :)

Regards,

Pete


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:01 PM, randy hunt  wrote:
> There are scans of the L-Pro service manual out there.  Google should help 
> here.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Sent: Sun, October 9, 2011 9:13:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
>> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.
>> You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
>> receiver
>>front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should be OK.
>>
>> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
>> I
>>have the software too, just need to find it!
>>
>> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to
>>use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
>>RS422
>>and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
>>RS422-4S232
>>converter which has worked fine for me.
>>
>> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer
>>units.  So, you have the more recent design.
>
> Any documentation you can provide would be very helpful - I'm pretty
> much sure, based on the comments made by yourself and the other people
> on the list, that my GPS Rx is broken - I just found my other oncore
> (a VP) and that works correctly in the same test setup that the UT+
> out of the RFTG failed to track in.  I also tried the little Motorola
> antenna on both boards, with the same results.  I tried plugging the
> VP into the Lucent box, but it doesn't seem to like it (the fault
> light just stays on), so I have ordered a replacment UT+ board.
>
> I assume the units that had a FRS in them had different PCBs?  The
> LPRO is plugged directly into the baseboard on my RB unit (KS-24019
> L105B, if that means anything) and it seems to be pretty clearly
> designed around it.  The XO (KS-24019 L106C) has the same PCB in it,
> except that there is an extra section of PCB with an Efratom OCXO
> mounted on it where the LPRO is in the RB unit.
>
> It's sort of a pity it's not an FRS - I've fixed some of those in the
> past, and they were pretty straightforward things to work on - all
> standard parts and it had the schematic in the manual - all the LPRO
> manual says is "not user-servicable; send it back to us" - but that
> lamp heater circuit looks fairly simple anyway, so I guess I can have
> a go at that while I'm waiting for the GPS board to arrive.
>
> And thank you to everyone that offered suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pete
>
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>

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[randy hunt]

There are scans of the L-Pro service manual out there.  Google should help here.

Randy





From: Peter Bell 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Sun, October 9, 2011 9:13:14 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats. 
> You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
> receiver 
>front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should be OK.
>
> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
> I 
>have the software too, just need to find it!
>
> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
>use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
>RS422 
>and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
>RS422-4S232 
>converter which has worked fine for me.
>
> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
>units.  So, you have the more recent design.

Any documentation you can provide would be very helpful - I'm pretty
much sure, based on the comments made by yourself and the other people
on the list, that my GPS Rx is broken - I just found my other oncore
(a VP) and that works correctly in the same test setup that the UT+
out of the RFTG failed to track in.  I also tried the little Motorola
antenna on both boards, with the same results.  I tried plugging the
VP into the Lucent box, but it doesn't seem to like it (the fault
light just stays on), so I have ordered a replacment UT+ board.

I assume the units that had a FRS in them had different PCBs?  The
LPRO is plugged directly into the baseboard on my RB unit (KS-24019
L105B, if that means anything) and it seems to be pretty clearly
designed around it.  The XO (KS-24019 L106C) has the same PCB in it,
except that there is an extra section of PCB with an Efratom OCXO
mounted on it where the LPRO is in the RB unit.

It's sort of a pity it's not an FRS - I've fixed some of those in the
past, and they were pretty straightforward things to work on - all
standard parts and it had the schematic in the manual - all the LPRO
manual says is "not user-servicable; send it back to us" - but that
lamp heater circuit looks fairly simple anyway, so I guess I can have
a go at that while I'm waiting for the GPS board to arrive.

And thank you to everyone that offered suggestions.

Regards,

Pete

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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:41 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.  
> You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the 
> receiver front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should 
> be OK.
>
> I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know 
> I have the software too, just need to find it!
>
> I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
> use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for 
> RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little 
> RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.
>
> The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
> units.  So, you have the more recent design.

Any documentation you can provide would be very helpful - I'm pretty
much sure, based on the comments made by yourself and the other people
on the list, that my GPS Rx is broken - I just found my other oncore
(a VP) and that works correctly in the same test setup that the UT+
out of the RFTG failed to track in.  I also tried the little Motorola
antenna on both boards, with the same results.  I tried plugging the
VP into the Lucent box, but it doesn't seem to like it (the fault
light just stays on), so I have ordered a replacment UT+ board.

I assume the units that had a FRS in them had different PCBs?  The
LPRO is plugged directly into the baseboard on my RB unit (KS-24019
L105B, if that means anything) and it seems to be pretty clearly
designed around it.  The XO (KS-24019 L106C) has the same PCB in it,
except that there is an extra section of PCB with an Efratom OCXO
mounted on it where the LPRO is in the RB unit.

It's sort of a pity it's not an FRS - I've fixed some of those in the
past, and they were pretty straightforward things to work on - all
standard parts and it had the schematic in the manual - all the LPRO
manual says is "not user-servicable; send it back to us" - but that
lamp heater circuit looks fairly simple anyway, so I guess I can have
a go at that while I'm waiting for the GPS board to arrive.

And thank you to everyone that offered suggestions.

Regards,

Pete

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Randy D. Hunt]

As to me, too.

TIA,
Randy, KI6WAS

On 10/9/2011 4:02 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote:

Hi, K4CLE

A while ago, I invested $600 in two pairs of the GPSDO and LPRO units.
Intended to replace a pair of 48 volt Z3801 receivers with 24 volt units.
Put them in the project pile for lack of drawings and software, where
they have languished. Their value has dropped, but I'd still like to
have 24 volt receivers with software like GPSCon that can do SNTP.
RS422 is no problem.

Please let me know if you find drawings and software. Copies are
worth more than postage to me.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: k4...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 1:41 PM

I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know
I have the software too, just need to find it!

I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able
to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for
RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little
RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.

The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer
units.  So, you have the more recent design.


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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Bill Hawkins]

Hi, K4CLE

A while ago, I invested $600 in two pairs of the GPSDO and LPRO units.
Intended to replace a pair of 48 volt Z3801 receivers with 24 volt units.
Put them in the project pile for lack of drawings and software, where
they have languished. Their value has dropped, but I'd still like to
have 24 volt receivers with software like GPSCon that can do SNTP.
RS422 is no problem.

Please let me know if you find drawings and software. Copies are
worth more than postage to me.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: k4...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 1:41 PM

I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know
I have the software too, just need to find it!

I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able
to use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for
RS422 and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little
RS422-4S232 converter which has worked fine for me.

The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer
units.  So, you have the more recent design.  


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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[k4...@aol.com]

Hi Peter, yes it sounds like the UT+ is defective if it never gets any sats.  
You can probably find one on eBay.  Someone probably fired RF into the receiver 
front-end and zapped it.  I think the antenna you are using should be OK.

I will look for my drawings on this unit and send copies to you.  And I know I 
have the software too, just need to find it!

I have read in some of the notes here on time-nuts that people may be able to 
use RS232 for communicating with the RFTG units.  But it was designed for RS422 
and I would suggest you use RS422 for best results.  I use a little RS422-4S232 
converter which has worked fine for me.

The early units had FRS rubidiums in them.  The LPRO was used in the newer 
units.  So, you have the more recent design.  
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 05:52:25 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
> anyone might have any suggestions.
>
> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>
> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>
> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
> out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
> maybe it's a known issue first.
>
Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.

I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
 (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
matter how long you leave it it still says it's tracking 0 satellites,
although it happiy generates status reports.

I wonder if this UT+ version is expecially sensitive to the antenna?
I remember that the oncore VP would work with pretty much anything you
hooked up to it.  Of course, it's equally possible that the GPS module
is defective.

I'm tending towards broken - I also got an RTFG-m-RB with this unit,
and that has a faulty LPRO-101 in it (it's probably fixable - it looks
like the FET that heats up the Rb cell had gone open circuit) - and
the two units together only cost me $40 supplied on a "status unkown,
but likely defective" basis. I should get at least $40 of
entertainment out of trying to fix them :)

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Randy D. Hunt]

On 10/9/2011 6:55 AM, EB4APL wrote:

Peter,

My UT+ works ok with common antennas, I tested it with a Trimble 
28367-00 and with a  INPAQ AAF-03B 5V.  Both are quite old garden 
variety GPS antennas intended for car navigators so your problem can 
be in the receiver.
I bought mine from fluke.l and he still have some available on his 
other shop:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649> 

They are cheap enough to buy one as a spare just in case.  Also you 
can try with another antenna anyway, because the receiver checks only 
that an antenna is connected (that is, the current range is right) but 
your antenna could became defective.


Regards,
Ignacio



On 09/10/2011 7:52, Peter Bell wrote:

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is 
supposed
to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn 
off.  AT&T
(Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now 
provided by
PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 
channel GPS
receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data 
from the
same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  
Let me

know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.


Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.

I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
 (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
matter how long you leave it it still says it's tracking 0 satellites,
although it happiy generates status reports.

I wonder if this UT+ version is expecially sensitive to the antenna?
I remember that the oncore VP would work with pretty much anything you
hooked up to it.  Of course, it's equally possible that the GPS module
is defective.

I'm tending towards broken - I also got an RTFG-m-RB with this unit,
and that has a faulty LPRO-101 in it (it's probably fixable - it looks
like the FET that heats up the Rb cell had gone open circuit) - and
the two units together only cost me $40 supplied on a "status unkown,
but likely defective" basis. I should get at least $40 of
entertainment out of trying to fix them :)

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That's the route I had to go to fix my RTFG pair.  I replaced the 
receiver with one of a pair I purchased from *-Bay. They seem to be working.


Randy, KI6WAS
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Orin Eman]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 6:55 AM, EB4APL  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> My UT+ works ok with common antennas, I tested it with a Trimble 28367-00
> and with a  INPAQ AAF-03B 5V.  Both are quite old garden variety GPS
> antennas intended for car navigators so your problem can be in the receiver.
> I bought mine from fluke.l and he still have some available on his other
> shop:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/**130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:**
> MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.**l2649<
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/**130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:**
> MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.**l2649
> >
> They are cheap enough to buy one as a spare just in case.  Also you can try
> with another antenna anyway, because the receiver checks only that an
> antenna is connected (that is, the current range is right) but your antenna
> could became defective.
>


I found one of these:

http://www.frys.com/product/5342178

to be more sensitive than the egg shaped antenna from fluke.l (fluke.l is a
good seller and I've bought a couple of things from him).  Whether the
GILSSON draws enough current is another matter - Frys claim 12 +/-1 mA.

Orin.
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[EB4APL]

Peter,

My UT+ works ok with common antennas, I tested it with a Trimble 
28367-00 and with a  INPAQ AAF-03B 5V.  Both are quite old garden 
variety GPS antennas intended for car navigators so your problem can be 
in the receiver.
I bought mine from fluke.l and he still have some available on his other 
shop:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/130303889204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649>
They are cheap enough to buy one as a spare just in case.  Also you can 
try with another antenna anyway, because the receiver checks only that 
an antenna is connected (that is, the current range is right) but your 
antenna could became defective.


Regards,
Ignacio



On 09/10/2011 7:52, Peter Bell wrote:

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:

Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
(Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.


Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.

I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
 (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
matter how long you leave it it still says it's tracking 0 satellites,
although it happiy generates status reports.

I wonder if this UT+ version is expecially sensitive to the antenna?
I remember that the oncore VP would work with pretty much anything you
hooked up to it.  Of course, it's equally possible that the GPS module
is defective.

I'm tending towards broken - I also got an RTFG-m-RB with this unit,
and that has a faulty LPRO-101 in it (it's probably fixable - it looks
like the FET that heats up the Rb cell had gone open circuit) - and
the two units together only cost me $40 supplied on a "status unkown,
but likely defective" basis. I should get at least $40 of
entertainment out of trying to fix them :)

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:31 AM, k4...@aol.com  wrote:
> Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed
> to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T
> (Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by
> PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS
> receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the
> same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me
> know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -Original message-
> From: Peter Bell 
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO
>
> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
> anyone might have any suggestions.
>
> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>
> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>
> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
> out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
> maybe it's a known issue first.
>
Hi, Doug

I don't have any documentation at all - just the actual box.  The
antenna is one that originally came with a Furuno marine GPS, but the
spec looks plausible (+5V @ 40mA, Internal L1 preamp with 26dB gain -
and it has worked with several other GPS units without problems.

I just pulled the oncore out, and connected it up outside the box -
and it doesn't work.  It passes the self test with a response code of
 (or 8000 with the antenna disconnected / 4000 with a short on the
antenna socket - so it seems the current consumption is OK) - but no
matter how long you leave it it still says it's tracking 0 satellites,
although it happiy generates status reports.

I wonder if this UT+ version is expecially sensitive to the antenna?
I remember that the oncore VP would work with pretty much anything you
hooked up to it.  Of course, it's equally possible that the GPS module
is defective.

I'm tending towards broken - I also got an RTFG-m-RB with this unit,
and that has a faulty LPRO-101 in it (it's probably fixable - it looks
like the FET that heats up the Rb cell had gone open circuit) - and
the two units together only cost me $40 supplied on a "status unkown,
but likely defective" basis. I should get at least $40 of
entertainment out of trying to fix them :)

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[k4...@aol.com]

Peter, do you have the software for this unit?  The GPS antenna is supposed  
to draw apx. 20 mA at 5 volts in order for the NO GPS LED to turn off.  AT&T  
(Lucent) used the MicroPulse timing antenna (later sold and now provided by  
PCTE).  You are correct in that Efratom used the Motorola UT+ 8 channel GPS  
receiver on these units.  The rubidium companion box used the data from the  
same receiver (via an interconnect cable between the two units).  Let me  
know if you have questions on this unit, Regards, Doug  


Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-
From: Peter Bell 
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 14:13:31 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[paul swed]

My comment would be that some gps receivers want to see a particular antenna
current.
Maybe thats low.
Further if the battery backup for the gps unit has failed it can easily take
4-6 hours to figure life out on older receivers. Unless like odetics you can
tell it what sat to look for, not likely since these were intended for
un-attended sites. If you power down it has to start all over again
Good luck and we will all learn from your effort.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Peter Bell  wrote:

> I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
> has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
> anyone might have any suggestions.
>
> Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
> goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
> my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
> trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
> anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?
>
> Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
> 15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
> if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.
>
> I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
> out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
> maybe it's a known issue first.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
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>
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[time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO GPSDO

[Peter Bell]

I have been playing with one of these units, and noticed that there
has been some discussion on them before on this list, so I wondered if
anyone might have any suggestions.

Basically, the unit powers up correctly, but the "No GPS" LED never
goes off - this obviously could be because it's broken or doesn't like
my antenna, but with some of these telecom GPSDOs you have to manually
trigger a site survey if you move them to another location. Does
anyone know if this Lucent box is like that?

Everything else seems to be working - once the "OK" light comes on the
15MHz output is enbled, the "No GPS" LED goes from solid to blinking
if you disconnect the antenna - it just doesn't want to get GPS lock.

I suppose I could pull the Oncore board (a UT+ according to the label)
out of it and test that on it's own - but I thiought I would see if
maybe it's a known issue first.

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