Re: [time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[Hal Murray]

manu...@artekmanuals.com said:
> Serial prefix  is 3517Ax

Mine is 3542Ax

Many years ago, I was bringing up one with the date was wrong.  It took me a 
few tries to get it to work.  I think the trick was to set the date before it 
had discovered any satellites and gotten confused by thinking the wrong date 
was correct.

> 2) If all I care about is 10MHz accuracy, do I need to care about the date?

No.


> Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but  I
> gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the
> ENTIRE list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one  month
> at time which is REALLY TEDIOUS 

Google works well.  Add "time-nuts" or "site:febo.com" (without the quotes, but 
they won't hurt) to narrow the search if you get too much clutter.

week wrap is a good term.  Or maybe WNRO, Week Number RollOver


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Re: [time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[Bob Camp]

Hi

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:59 AM, Artek Manuals  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys
> 
> Dave at ArtekManuals.com here. Long time electronics enthusiast/tinkerer/ ham 
> radio op.
> Recently moved and am in the process of setting up my long dreamed of a 
> planned electronics lab and radio shack (NR1DX).
> 
> At the heart of the lab is a HP Z3801 GPSDO to provide  an external 10MHz 
> frequency reference. I bought the unit about 15 years ago but it has been in 
> environmentally controlled storage ever since. Serial prefix is 3517Ax 
> and I am running this on a +54VDC supply. Upon firing the Z3801 up, the first 
> conundrum I am running into is that the unit does not seem to support setting 
> the date above 12/31/2007. Sometimes during the survey mode it will 
> automatically set the correct 2016 date , other times during the survey the 
> date stays stuck on 1996. The unit tracks the satellites and mostly settles 
> in around 1 second PPS at +/- 20ns with a holdover of 4 to 8us. More about 
> the "mostly" comment in a later post.
> 
> On the surface the actual reported date is not a big deal for me. as long as 
> the date is not critical to the GPSDO function? The engineer in me would like 
> to be able to set the date correctly ..just because. When attempting to 
> set the using GPS:INIT:DATE I get an E-222 error (data out of range).
> 
> So here are my initial questions.
> 1) I assume that the date thing is a firmware issue? Is there updated 
> firmware out there that allows dates above 2007, 12, 31?

The firmware issue is in the GPS module inside the 3801. The “solution” is to 
swap out the GPS module. 

> 2) If all I care about is 10MHz accuracy, do I need to care about the date?

No, the date in no way impacts the 10 MHz accuracy.

> 3) Is there a different command string I should be using?

You may eventually get it to take for a while. Check “GPS rollover” in the 
archives. There is a lot of information there on what’s going on. 

> 4)Software: I am running HP SATSTAT and Z38XX on a WIN-XP/32 laptop ...IS 
> there something better (or different) I should be running in the way of FREE 
> software? I looked at the GPSCon package and so far questions about support 
> for the software and portability eventually to WIN-10 supported have gone 
> unanswered (not a good sign)

Again, check the archives. The Z38xx software is a good way to go. It was 
originally written for the 3801.

> 
> Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but I 
> gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the ENTIRE 
> list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one month at time 
> which is REALLY TEDIOUS

Google will search them quite nicely. 

Bob

> 
> Dave
> NR1DX
> ArtekManuals.com
> 
> -- 
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[cfo]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:59:22 -0500, Artek Manuals wrote:
> Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but
> I gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the
> ENTIRE list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one
> month at time which is REALLY TEDIOUS
> 
> Dave NR1DX ArtekManuals.com

I use this url for searching they mirror time-nuts : 
https://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/info.html

I also have a Z3801 w. a 1996 date, and think i saw that you should 
manually set the date before it gets a GPS fix. Then it will remember it 
(until next reboot)

CFO

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Re: [time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[paul swed]

Dave
Welcome to the group and have always appreciated the help from Artek.
If only frequency no need to care about the date. I learned this from
fellow time nuts. Yes I also hate 1996. Now I think there are later
software releases. I haven't had my 3801 on for a bit as I discovered that
I actually have a jumping frequency issue. But If need be happy to copy the
software.
Also check KO4bbs website later eproms may be there.
I don't actually recall seeing eproms in the unit.
Up until recently my 3801 of 10-14 years just worked thats why I am unclear
about the internals.
Unfortunately seems I may be digging into it.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Artek Manuals 
wrote:

> Hi guys
>
> Dave at ArtekManuals.com here. Long time electronics enthusiast/tinkerer/
> ham radio op.
> Recently moved and am in the process of setting up my long dreamed of a
> planned electronics lab and radio shack (NR1DX).
>
> At the heart of the lab is a HP Z3801 GPSDO to provide  an external 10MHz
> frequency reference. I bought the unit about 15 years ago but it has been
> in environmentally controlled storage ever since. Serial prefix is
> 3517Ax and I am running this on a +54VDC supply. Upon firing the Z3801
> up, the first conundrum I am running into is that the unit does not seem to
> support setting the date above 12/31/2007. Sometimes during the survey mode
> it will automatically set the correct 2016 date , other times during the
> survey the date stays stuck on 1996. The unit tracks the satellites and
> mostly settles in around 1 second PPS at +/- 20ns with a holdover of 4 to
> 8us. More about the "mostly" comment in a later post.
>
> On the surface the actual reported date is not a big deal for me. as long
> as the date is not critical to the GPSDO function? The engineer in me would
> like to be able to set the date correctly ..just because. When
> attempting to set the using GPS:INIT:DATE I get an E-222 error (data out of
> range).
>
> So here are my initial questions.
> 1) I assume that the date thing is a firmware issue? Is there updated
> firmware out there that allows dates above 2007, 12, 31?
> 2) If all I care about is 10MHz accuracy, do I need to care about the date?
> 3) Is there a different command string I should be using?
> 4)Software: I am running HP SATSTAT and Z38XX on a WIN-XP/32 laptop ...IS
> there something better (or different) I should be running in the way of
> FREE software? I looked at the GPSCon package and so far questions about
> support for the software and portability eventually to WIN-10 supported
> have gone unanswered (not a good sign)
>
> Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but I
> gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the
> ENTIRE list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one month
> at time which is REALLY TEDIOUS
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
> ArtekManuals.com
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[Azelio Boriani]

Welcome,
you hit the usual GPS week rollover issue, see these:


No impact on the 10MHz/PPS accuracy.
No command can correct the rollover, I seem to remember that if you
set the date before the GPS has a fix (right after a power cycle),
then the date will be correct (until the next power cycle).
There is also this software:


On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Artek Manuals  wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> Dave at ArtekManuals.com here. Long time electronics enthusiast/tinkerer/
> ham radio op.
> Recently moved and am in the process of setting up my long dreamed of a
> planned electronics lab and radio shack (NR1DX).
>
> At the heart of the lab is a HP Z3801 GPSDO to provide  an external 10MHz
> frequency reference. I bought the unit about 15 years ago but it has been in
> environmentally controlled storage ever since. Serial prefix is 3517Ax
> and I am running this on a +54VDC supply. Upon firing the Z3801 up, the
> first conundrum I am running into is that the unit does not seem to support
> setting the date above 12/31/2007. Sometimes during the survey mode it will
> automatically set the correct 2016 date , other times during the survey the
> date stays stuck on 1996. The unit tracks the satellites and mostly settles
> in around 1 second PPS at +/- 20ns with a holdover of 4 to 8us. More about
> the "mostly" comment in a later post.
>
> On the surface the actual reported date is not a big deal for me. as long as
> the date is not critical to the GPSDO function? The engineer in me would
> like to be able to set the date correctly ..just because. When
> attempting to set the using GPS:INIT:DATE I get an E-222 error (data out of
> range).
>
> So here are my initial questions.
> 1) I assume that the date thing is a firmware issue? Is there updated
> firmware out there that allows dates above 2007, 12, 31?
> 2) If all I care about is 10MHz accuracy, do I need to care about the date?
> 3) Is there a different command string I should be using?
> 4)Software: I am running HP SATSTAT and Z38XX on a WIN-XP/32 laptop ...IS
> there something better (or different) I should be running in the way of FREE
> software? I looked at the GPSCon package and so far questions about support
> for the software and portability eventually to WIN-10 supported have gone
> unanswered (not a good sign)
>
> Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but I
> gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the ENTIRE
> list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one month at time
> which is REALLY TEDIOUS
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
> ArtekManuals.com
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Bob Camp]

Hi



> On Jan 16, 2016, at 7:29 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Right now I'm mostly aligning IF stages of boat anchor rigs, not designing new
> stuff or trying to evaluate performance of newer rigs, so I think the 8660 
> will
> do the job until I can afford something better. I'm debating what to buy 
> later,
> but it appears most of the older rigs with better specs and that are 
> well-liked
> here start at $500(It "powers on") to $1000(Tested and calibrated) and can
> easily go as high as one wants to spend on newer gear. I'm sure I will wind up
> that far into the hobby... Just not yet! I appreciate all the information from
> the group, I'm learning a lot.
> Nathan KK4REY

Consider that what you have right now may be “good enough” for anything you
are likely to do with it. You only *need* to get a different gizmo when you 
have an
application that is beyond what you can deal with now. Yes, gear is cheaper if 
you 
shop for a year for that “bargain”. You can also wind up with a shed full of 
gear (or 
possibly three sheds …) going for each deal that comes along. 

Bob


> 
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 19:32, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> measurement  wrote:
> I did some interpolation to compare the specs for phase noise of the 8660 the
> way it was done then to the present method. I think it is going to be 
> something
> like -105 dBc/Hz to -110 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz offset at 14 MHz carrier frequency.
> 
> As a comparison, the 8662A is about -135 dBc/Hz and the 8642A is better than
> -150 dBc/Hz.
> Actual measurements on multiple generators in my lab. Unfortunately I have 
> never
> used or measured an 8660.
> 
> 3335A -128 dBc/Hz
> 3336C -120 dBc/Hz
> 3325A -115 dBc/Hz (original version. Later improved by 4 pr 5 dB after the 
> 3336C
> came out.)
> 
> As a comparison a Rigol DG4162 is -115 dBc/Hz
> All at 10 kHz offset and on the 20 meter band.
> 
> It depends what you are trying to measure. Sensitivity or noise floor, 
> anything
> will work within the range of specified output accuracy and leakage. On the
> other hand, if you are trying to measure the dynamic range of a receiver, or 
> its
> phase noise characteristics, you cannot do that with most generators.
> 
> Rob, NC0B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Jan 16, 2016, at 3:10 AM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 1/14/2016 12:35 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:
> >> What does the group think of the HP 8660? Just scored a broken one too 
> >> cheap
> to
> >> pass up. I know it's not gonna be the last signal generator I buy, but for
> under
> >> $100 shipped it should be an interesting project.
> >> Nathan KK4REY
> >
> > When I worked at HP, I had the chance to discuss this product
> > with various engineers who were involved in its development.
> > It frankly wasn't one of the better products in the line.
> > It has a high broadband noise floor. The follow on
> > product, the 8662, is MUCH better. No comparison.
> >
> > Rick Karlquist N6RK
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTg0MzQzODAwNjpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[jimlux]

On 1/16/16 4:29 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:

Right now I'm mostly aligning IF stages of boat anchor rigs,


An inexpensive eval board with a synthesizer chip might work for this, 
like the Si570.  Aligning the IF doesn't require great phase noise 
performance. this is probably a <$50 solution.


Pair that with a good step attenuator and a decent power meter (which 
have other uses) and you're good to go.




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[time-nuts] New Member / Z3801

[Artek Manuals]

Hi guys

Dave at ArtekManuals.com here. Long time electronics 
enthusiast/tinkerer/ ham radio op.
Recently moved and am in the process of setting up my long dreamed of a 
planned electronics lab and radio shack (NR1DX).


At the heart of the lab is a HP Z3801 GPSDO to provide  an external 
10MHz frequency reference. I bought the unit about 15 years ago but it 
has been in environmentally controlled storage ever since. Serial prefix 
is 3517Ax and I am running this on a +54VDC supply. Upon firing the 
Z3801 up, the first conundrum I am running into is that the unit does 
not seem to support setting the date above 12/31/2007. Sometimes during 
the survey mode it will automatically set the correct 2016 date , other 
times during the survey the date stays stuck on 1996. The unit tracks 
the satellites and mostly settles in around 1 second PPS at +/- 20ns 
with a holdover of 4 to 8us. More about the "mostly" comment in a later 
post.


On the surface the actual reported date is not a big deal for me. as 
long as the date is not critical to the GPSDO function? The engineer in 
me would like to be able to set the date correctly ..just because. 
When attempting to set the using GPS:INIT:DATE I get an E-222 error 
(data out of range).


So here are my initial questions.
1) I assume that the date thing is a firmware issue? Is there updated 
firmware out there that allows dates above 2007, 12, 31?

2) If all I care about is 10MHz accuracy, do I need to care about the date?
3) Is there a different command string I should be using?
4)Software: I am running HP SATSTAT and Z38XX on a WIN-XP/32 laptop 
...IS there something better (or different) I should be running in the 
way of FREE software? I looked at the GPSCon package and so far 
questions about support for the software and portability eventually to 
WIN-10 supported have gone unanswered (not a good sign)


Finally I am sure that the above have been addressed on older posts, but 
I gave up searching in frustration.  Is there an easy way to search the 
ENTIRE list archive. It seems that the archives must be queried one 
month at time which is REALLY TEDIOUS


Dave
NR1DX
ArtekManuals.com

--
Dave
manu...@artekmanuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com


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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Nathan Johnson]

Right now I'm mostly aligning IF stages of boat anchor rigs, not designing 
new
stuff or trying to evaluate performance of newer rigs, so I think the 8660 
will
do the job until I can afford something better. I'm debating what to buy 
later,
but it appears most of the older rigs with better specs and that are 
well-liked

here start at $500(It "powers on") to $1000(Tested and calibrated) and can
easily go as high as one wants to spend on newer gear. I'm sure I will wind 
up
that far into the hobby... Just not yet! I appreciate all the information 
from

the group, I'm learning a lot.
Nathan KK4REY

Sent using CloudMagic Email
[https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 19:32, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement  wrote:
I did some interpolation to compare the specs for phase noise of the 8660 
the
way it was done then to the present method. I think it is going to be 
something
like -105 dBc/Hz to -110 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz offset at 14 MHz carrier 
frequency.


As a comparison, the 8662A is about -135 dBc/Hz and the 8642A is better 
than

-150 dBc/Hz.
Actual measurements on multiple generators in my lab. Unfortunately I have 
never

used or measured an 8660.

3335A -128 dBc/Hz
3336C -120 dBc/Hz
3325A -115 dBc/Hz (original version. Later improved by 4 pr 5 dB after the 
3336C

came out.)

As a comparison a Rigol DG4162 is -115 dBc/Hz
All at 10 kHz offset and on the 20 meter band.

It depends what you are trying to measure. Sensitivity or noise floor, 
anything

will work within the range of specified output accuracy and leakage. On the
other hand, if you are trying to measure the dynamic range of a receiver, 
or its

phase noise characteristics, you cannot do that with most generators.

Rob, NC0B




Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 16, 2016, at 3:10 AM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"
 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 1/14/2016 12:35 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:
>> What does the group think of the HP 8660? Just scored a broken one too 
cheap

to
>> pass up. I know it's not gonna be the last signal generator I buy, but 
for

under
>> $100 shipped it should be an interesting project.
>> Nathan KK4REY
>
> When I worked at HP, I had the chance to discuss this product
> with various engineers who were involved in its development.
> It frankly wasn't one of the better products in the line.
> It has a high broadband noise floor. The follow on
> product, the 8662, is MUCH better. No comparison.
>
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

I did some interpolation to compare the specs for phase noise of the 8660 the 
way it was done then to the present method. I think it is going to be something 
like -105 dBc/Hz to -110 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz offset at 14 MHz carrier frequency. 

As a comparison, the 8662A is about -135 dBc/Hz and the 8642A is better than 
-150 dBc/Hz.
Actual measurements on multiple generators in my lab.  Unfortunately I have 
never used or measured an 8660. 

3335A -128 dBc/Hz
3336C -120 dBc/Hz
3325A -115 dBc/Hz (original version.  Later improved by 4 pr 5 dB after the 
3336C came out.)

As a comparison a Rigol DG4162 is -115 dBc/Hz 
All at 10 kHz offset and on the 20 meter band. 

It depends what you are trying to measure. Sensitivity or noise floor, anything 
will work within the range of specified output accuracy and leakage.  On the 
other hand, if you are trying to measure the dynamic range of a receiver, or 
its phase noise characteristics, you cannot do that with most generators. 

Rob, NC0B




Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 16, 2016, at 3:10 AM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1/14/2016 12:35 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:
>> What does the group think of the HP 8660? Just scored a broken one too cheap 
>> to
>> pass up. I know it's not gonna be the last signal generator I buy, but for 
>> under
>> $100 shipped it should be an interesting project.
>> Nathan KK4REY
> 
> When I worked at HP, I had the chance to discuss this product
> with various engineers who were involved in its development.
> It frankly wasn't one of the better products in the line.
> It has a high broadband noise floor.  The follow on
> product, the 8662, is MUCH better.  No comparison.
> 
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
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> 
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 1/14/2016 12:35 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:

What does the group think of the HP 8660? Just scored a broken one too cheap to
pass up. I know it's not gonna be the last signal generator I buy, but for under
$100 shipped it should be an interesting project.
Nathan KK4REY



When I worked at HP, I had the chance to discuss this product
with various engineers who were involved in its development.
It frankly wasn't one of the better products in the line.
It has a high broadband noise floor.  The follow on
product, the 8662, is MUCH better.  No comparison.

Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Scott McGrath]

ignal gen, I am
>>> aware that the
>>>>>> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
>>>>>> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on
>>> the usual
>>>>>> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge
>>> investment for a
>>>>>> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
>>>>>> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up
>>> for that
>>>>>> kind of challenge until I do.
>>>>>> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix
>>> scope
>>>>>> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a
>>> year. There
>>>>>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm
>>> pretty
>>>>>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
>>> moment, so
>>>>>> it's not that bad... Yet!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nathan KK4REY
>>>>>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
>>>>>> [
>> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
>>> ]
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>>> measurement  wrote:
>>>>>> Good thread everyone.
>>>>>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
>>>>>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
>>>>>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
>>>>>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
>>>>>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets
>>> you a
>>>>>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats
>>> shipped
>>>>>> with the units.
>>>>>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
>>>>>> Good luck.
>>>>>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn
>>> thing is
>>>>>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
>>>>>> sure.
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> WB8TSL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
>>>>>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
>>> Another
>>>>>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff".
>>> The
>>>>>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
>>>>>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>> NC0B
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
>>> paul swed
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
>>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nathan,
>>>>>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail
>>> has
>>>>>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The
>>> Ref0
>>>>>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It
>>> works
>>>>>>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
>>>>>>> feeding it.
>>>>>>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that
>>> has a
>>>>>>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place
>>> in
>>>>>>> price. But it does just work.
>>>>>>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
>

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

; year. There
>>>>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm
>> pretty
>>>>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
>> moment, so
>>>>> it's not that bad... Yet!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan KK4REY
>>>>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
>>>>> [
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
>> ]
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>> measurement  wrote:
>>>>> Good thread everyone.
>>>>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
>>>>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
>>>>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
>>>>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
>>>>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets
>> you a
>>>>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats
>> shipped
>>>>> with the units.
>>>>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
>>>>> Good luck.
>>>>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn
>> thing is
>>>>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
>>>>> sure.
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> WB8TSL
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
>>>>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
>> Another
>>>>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff".
>> The
>>>>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
>>>>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>> NC0B
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
>> paul swed
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nathan,
>>>>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail
>> has
>>>>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The
>> Ref0
>>>>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It
>> works
>>>>>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
>>>>>> feeding it.
>>>>>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that
>> has a
>>>>>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place
>> in
>>>>>> price. But it does just work.
>>>>>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
>>>>>> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven
>> oscillator
>>>>>> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are
>> great and
>>>>>> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
>>>>>> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz
>> so
>>>>>> going further isn't really all that helpful.
>>>>>> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then
>> you
>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
>>>>>> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution
>> amplifiers,
>>>>>> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real
>> fast.
>>>>>> Good luck
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> WB8TSL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[paul swed]

 >>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder".
> I'm
> > pretty
> > >>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
> > moment, so
> > >>> it's not that bad... Yet!
> > >>>
> > >>> Nathan KK4REY
> > >>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> > >>> [
> >
>
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
> > ]
> > >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and
> frequency
> > >>> measurement  wrote:
> > >>> Good thread everyone.
> > >>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
> > >>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
> > >>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
> > >>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
> > >>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets
> > you a
> > >>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats
> > shipped
> > >>> with the units.
> > >>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> > >>> Good luck.
> > >>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn
> > thing is
> > >>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I
> am
> > >>> sure.
> > >>> Paul
> > >>> WB8TSL
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood. 
> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Paul,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently
> rented a
> > >>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
> > Another
> > >>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff".
> > The
> > >>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> > >>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rob
> > >>>> NC0B
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Original Message-
> > >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
> > paul swed
> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> > >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Nathan,
> > >>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail
> > has
> > >>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The
> > Ref0
> > >>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It
> > works
> > >>>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> > >>>> feeding it.
> > >>>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that
> > has a
> > >>>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place
> > in
> > >>>> price. But it does just work.
> > >>>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> > >>>> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven
> > oscillator
> > >>>> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are
> > great and
> > >>>> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> > >>>> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz
> > so
> > >>>> going further isn't really all that helpful.
> > >>>> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue
> then
> > you
> > >>>> expect.
> > >>>> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> > >>>> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution
> > amplifiers,
> > >>>> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real
> > fast.
> > >>>> Good luck
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>>

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Nathan Johnson]

>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> >>> Good luck.
> >>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn
> thing is
> >>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
> >>> sure.
> >>> Paul
> >>> WB8TSL
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul,
> >>>>
> >>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> >>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
> Another
> >>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff".
> The
> >>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
> >>>>
> >>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> >>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rob
> >>>> NC0B
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
> paul swed
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Nathan,
> >>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail
> has
> >>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The
> Ref0
> >>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It
> works
> >>>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> >>>> feeding it.
> >>>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that
> has a
> >>>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place
> in
> >>>> price. But it does just work.
> >>>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> >>>> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven
> oscillator
> >>>> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are
> great and
> >>>> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> >>>> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz
> so
> >>>> going further isn't really all that helpful.
> >>>> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then
> you
> >>>> expect.
> >>>> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> >>>> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution
> amplifiers,
> >>>> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real
> fast.
> >>>> Good luck
> >>>> Paul
> >>>> WB8TSL
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson 
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello All,
> >>>>>> I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>> many
> >>>>>> more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I
> >>>>>> am
> >>>>> wanting
> >>>>>> to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I
> >>>>>> see
> >>>>> that I
> >>>>>> have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent
> >>>>>> OCXO-based
> >>>>> device,
> >>>>>> a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply
> >>>>>> accurate
> >>>>> timing
> >>>>>> to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>> frequency
> >>>>>> counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> >>>>>> In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> >>>>>> transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some
> >>>>>> higher freque

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[paul swed]

Robs correct on that front. Did not have time to respond till now.
The 8640 is not some sort of synthesized gen.
But it has one of the lowest noise floors of any generator.
So I have several of them and then the synthesized gens like those
mentioned.

Hear that sucking sound?
Its quicksand.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:

> It is more of a counter-assisted drift stabilizer than a true phase lock
> as would happen if locking a 10811 to an external standard.  Rob, NC0B
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 11, 2016, at 1:00 PM, "bownes"  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The 8640 will lock to an external 5Mhz reference. That's what the BNC in
> the heatsink is for. At least that is where it is on mine.
> >
> > The trick is doing a good divide by two.
> >
> > However, that said, the 8640 tops out at ~1024MHz, which if you get
> interested in even the lower microwaves, is not quite enough.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> > KI2L
> >
> >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 09:47, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
> >>
> >> The HP 8647A may be the worst signal generator HP ever made.  The 8656B
> won't even go down low enough in level to make a noise floor measurement on
> a modern transceiver.  Sure you can add external attenuation, but you won't
> know about how much leakage is occurring.  Otherwise why wouldn't HP have
> added another 15 dB attenuation in the box? That is why I mentioned the
> 8657B.  Yes the 8662A's reliability issue is the power supply.  No question
> not a starter generator.  The 8642A was never intended for field repair,
> but it is the only generator with low enough phase noise to test top radios
> today, and something a ham could afford. Again, not the first sig gen that
> should be on your list
> >>
> >> Rob, NC0B
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:01 AM, "Nathan Johnson" 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination,
> I don't
> >>> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
> >>> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for
> that, or is
> >>> there a website?
> >>> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am
> aware that the
> >>> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
> >>> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on
> the usual
> >>> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge
> investment for a
> >>> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
> >>> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up
> for that
> >>> kind of challenge until I do.
> >>> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix
> scope
> >>> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a
> year. There
> >>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm
> pretty
> >>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
> moment, so
> >>> it's not that bad... Yet!
> >>>
> >>> Nathan KK4REY
> >>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> >>> [
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
> ]
> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> >>> measurement  wrote:
> >>> Good thread everyone.
> >>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
> >>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
> >>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
> >>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
> >>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets
> you a
> >>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats
> shipped
> >>> with the units.
> >>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> >>> Good luck.
> >>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn
> thing is
> >>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
> >>> sure.
> >>> Paul
> >>> WB8TSL
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
> >>>>

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

It is more of a counter-assisted drift stabilizer than a true phase lock as 
would happen if locking a 10811 to an external standard.  Rob, NC0B

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 1:00 PM, "bownes"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 8640 will lock to an external 5Mhz reference. That's what the BNC in the 
> heatsink is for. At least that is where it is on mine. 
> 
> The trick is doing a good divide by two. 
> 
> However, that said, the 8640 tops out at ~1024MHz, which if you get 
> interested in even the lower microwaves, is not quite enough. 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob
> KI2L
> 
>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 09:47, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>> 
>> The HP 8647A may be the worst signal generator HP ever made.  The 8656B 
>> won't even go down low enough in level to make a noise floor measurement on 
>> a modern transceiver.  Sure you can add external attenuation, but you won't 
>> know about how much leakage is occurring.  Otherwise why wouldn't HP have 
>> added another 15 dB attenuation in the box? That is why I mentioned the 
>> 8657B.  Yes the 8662A's reliability issue is the power supply.  No question 
>> not a starter generator.  The 8642A was never intended for field repair, but 
>> it is the only generator with low enough phase noise to test top radios 
>> today, and something a ham could afford. Again, not the first sig gen that 
>> should be on your list 
>> 
>> Rob, NC0B
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:01 AM, "Nathan Johnson"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I 
>>> don't
>>> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
>>> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that, 
>>> or is
>>> there a website?
>>> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware 
>>> that the
>>> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
>>> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the 
>>> usual
>>> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment 
>>> for a
>>> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
>>> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for 
>>> that
>>> kind of challenge until I do.
>>> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
>>> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year. 
>>> There
>>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm 
>>> pretty
>>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the 
>>> moment, so
>>> it's not that bad... Yet!
>>> 
>>> Nathan KK4REY
>>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
>>> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>> measurement  wrote:
>>> Good thread everyone.
>>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
>>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
>>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
>>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
>>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
>>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
>>> with the units.
>>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
>>> Good luck.
>>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
>>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
>>> sure.
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Paul,
>>>> 
>>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
>>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. Another
>>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
>>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>>>> 
>>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
>>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>>>> 
>>>> Rob
>&

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[bownes]

The 8640 will lock to an external 5Mhz reference. That's what the BNC in the 
heatsink is for. At least that is where it is on mine. 

The trick is doing a good divide by two. 

However, that said, the 8640 tops out at ~1024MHz, which if you get interested 
in even the lower microwaves, is not quite enough. 



Bob
KI2L

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 09:47, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
> 
> The HP 8647A may be the worst signal generator HP ever made.  The 8656B won't 
> even go down low enough in level to make a noise floor measurement on a 
> modern transceiver.  Sure you can add external attenuation, but you won't 
> know about how much leakage is occurring.  Otherwise why wouldn't HP have 
> added another 15 dB attenuation in the box? That is why I mentioned the 
> 8657B.  Yes the 8662A's reliability issue is the power supply.  No question 
> not a starter generator.  The 8642A was never intended for field repair, but 
> it is the only generator with low enough phase noise to test top radios 
> today, and something a ham could afford. Again, not the first sig gen that 
> should be on your list 
> 
> Rob, NC0B
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:01 AM, "Nathan Johnson"  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I 
>> don't
>> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
>> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that, or 
>> is
>> there a website?
>> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware that 
>> the
>> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
>> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the 
>> usual
>> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment 
>> for a
>> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
>> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for 
>> that
>> kind of challenge until I do.
>> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
>> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year. 
>> There
>> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm pretty
>> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the moment, 
>> so
>> it's not that bad... Yet!
>> 
>> Nathan KK4REY
>> Sent using CloudMagic Email
>> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>> measurement  wrote:
>> Good thread everyone.
>> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
>> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
>> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
>> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
>> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
>> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
>> with the units.
>> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
>> Good luck.
>> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
>> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
>> sure.
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Paul,
>>> 
>>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
>>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. Another
>>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
>>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>>> 
>>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
>>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>>> 
>>> Rob
>>> NC0B
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Nathan,
>>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
>>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
>>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Ian Stirling]

On 01/10/2016 01:25 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote:


Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item#
231803015799 on the
usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also
looked at
item# 111514491254


Nathan,

  I have an NTBW50AA. It can be monitored and controlled by the
excellent Lady Heather software. I have the antenna mounted on top of
a plastic pole strapped to the corner of my deck. It is connected to
the SMB to BNC supplied adapter using RG59 cable. Rather than ordering
the multi connector to supply power, I opened the unit, mounted a
coaxial power socket to the back and soldered wires from it directly
to the thick PCB power lines. The antenna works with my Ref1 Ref0 pair.
I use a 24 V power supply. It is very good, reasonably priced equipment.

Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR
--
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

The HP 8647A may be the worst signal generator HP ever made.  The 8656B won't 
even go down low enough in level to make a noise floor measurement on a modern 
transceiver.  Sure you can add external attenuation, but you won't know about 
how much leakage is occurring.  Otherwise why wouldn't HP have added another 15 
dB attenuation in the box? That is why I mentioned the 8657B.  Yes the 8662A's 
reliability issue is the power supply.  No question not a starter generator.  
The 8642A was never intended for field repair, but it is the only generator 
with low enough phase noise to test top radios today, and something a ham could 
afford. Again, not the first sig gen that should be on your list 

Rob, NC0B
Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:01 AM, "Nathan Johnson"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I don't
> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that, or 
> is
> there a website?
> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware that 
> the
> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the usual
> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment for 
> a
> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for 
> that
> kind of challenge until I do.
> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year. 
> There
> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm pretty
> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the moment, 
> so
> it's not that bad... Yet!
> 
> Nathan KK4REY
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> measurement  wrote:
> Good thread everyone.
> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
> with the units.
> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> Good luck.
> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
> sure.
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>> 
>> Paul,
>> 
>> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
>> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. Another
>> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
>> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>> 
>> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
>> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>> 
>> Rob
>> NC0B
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nathan,
>> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
>> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
>> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
>> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
>> feeding it.
>> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
>> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
>> price. But it does just work.
>> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
>> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
>> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and
>> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
>> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
>> going further isn't really all that helpful.
>> Now here is

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[paul swed]

Nathan,
Here is the link for the REF0. Dan visits time-nuts every now and again.
http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2015/08/standalone-operation-of-lucent-ks-24361.html
Essentially the arduino fakes out the REF0 to believe a GPS receiver is
attached.
Then any 1PPS will train the reference.
I have built this up using a NEO6 and several different arduinos.
Mini/micro...They all worked. Its silly simple and frankly great solutions
often are silly simple.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:40 AM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:

> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I
> don't
> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that,
> or is
> there a website?
> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware
> that the
> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the
> usual
> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment
> for a
> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for
> that
> kind of challenge until I do.
> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year.
> There
> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm
> pretty
> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
> moment, so
> it's not that bad... Yet!
>
> Nathan KK4REY
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
> ]
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> measurement  wrote:
> Good thread everyone.
> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
> with the units.
> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> Good luck.
> To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
> sure.
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> > storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
> Another
> > ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
> > disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
> >
> > My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> > towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
> >
> > Rob
> > NC0B
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul
> swed
> > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
> >
> >
> >
> > Nathan,
> > Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
> > been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
> > requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
> > really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> > feeding it.
> > But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
> > built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
> > price. But it does just work.
> > Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> > description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
> > they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great
> and
> > can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> > You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
> > going further isn't really all that helpful.
> > Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
> > expect.
> > First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> > acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers,
> > bet

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Nathan Johnson]

I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I don't
see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that, or is
there a website?
Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware that the
8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the usual
site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment for a
piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for that
kind of challenge until I do.
I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year. There
is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm pretty
sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the moment, so
it's not that bad... Yet!

Nathan KK4REY
Sent using CloudMagic Email
[https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement  wrote:
Good thread everyone.
Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
Though frankly even neo6s play well.
If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
with the units.
Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
Good luck.
To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
sure.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. Another
> ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>
> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
>
> Rob
> NC0B
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>
>
>
> Nathan,
> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> feeding it.
> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
> price. But it does just work.
> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and
> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
> going further isn't really all that helpful.
> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
> expect.
> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers,
> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast.
> Good luck
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut
> > > for
> > many
> > > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I
> > > am
> > wanting
> > > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I
> > > see
> > that I
> > > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent
> > > OCXO-based
> > device,
> > > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply
> > > accurate
> > timing
> > > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and
&

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[paul swed]

Good thread everyone.
Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
Though frankly even neo6s play well.
If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
with the units.
Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
Good luck.
To Ron o yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
sure.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Your last paragraph was a hoot.  A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.  Another
> ham friend used to have four storage  units to store all his "stuff". The
> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>
> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK.  Need I say more.
>
> Rob
> NC0B
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>
>
>
> Nathan,
> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
> been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
> requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
> really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> feeding it.
> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
> built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
> price. But it does just work.
> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
> they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and
> can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
> going further isn't really all that helpful.
> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
> expect.
> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers,
> better antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast.
> Good luck
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut
> > > for
> > many
> > > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I
> > > am
> > wanting
> > > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I
> > > see
> > that I
> > > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent
> > > OCXO-based
> > device,
> > > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply
> > > accurate
> > timing
> > > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and
> > > a
> > frequency
> > > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> > > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> > > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some
> > > higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> > > So what I have learned so far about each option:
> > > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by
> > > itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the
> > > microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an
> > > adjustment pin
> > for a
> > > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that
> > > voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably
> > > build an
> > OCXO device
> > > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money
> > > to
> > obtain
> > > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab
> etc.
> > > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not
> > traceable in
> > > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the
> > > available standards appears t

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Don Latham]

I see I am in Really Good Company
Don

Rob Sherwood.
> Paul,
>
> Your last paragraph was a hoot.  A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.  Another
> ham friend used to have four storage  units to store all his "stuff". The
> disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
>
> My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7 towers, 13
> yagis, etc. when I am SK.  Need I say more.
>
> Rob
> NC0B
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
>
>
>
> Nathan,
> Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has been
> shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0 requires
> a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works really well
> and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps feeding it.
> But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a built
> in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in price. But
> it does just work.
> Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your description
> not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator they all are
> great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and can actually be
> amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so going
> further isn't really all that helpful.
> Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
> expect.
> First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself acquiring
> more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers, better
> antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast.
> Good luck
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut
>> > for
>> many
>> > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I
>> > am
>> wanting
>> > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I
>> > see
>> that I
>> > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent
>> > OCXO-based
>> device,
>> > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply
>> > accurate
>> timing
>> > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and
>> > a
>> frequency
>> > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
>> > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
>> > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some
>> > higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
>> > So what I have learned so far about each option:
>> > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by
>> > itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the
>> > microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an
>> > adjustment pin
>> for a
>> > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that
>> > voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably
>> > build an
>> OCXO device
>> > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money
>> > to
>> obtain
>> > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
>> > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not
>> traceable in
>> > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the
>> > available standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better
>> > than I am
>> likely to
>> > need). The available standards are being re-imported from China,
>> > with
>> unknown
>> > hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They
>> appear to be
>> > power hogs. A $200 gamble.
>> > -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary
>> standards.
>> > Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item#
>> 231803015799 on the
>> > usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also
>> looked at
>>

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

Paul,

Your last paragraph was a hoot.  A ham friend of mine recently rented a storage 
shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.  Another ham friend 
used to have four storage  units to store all his "stuff". The disease is not 
curable with either time or antibiotics.  

My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7 towers, 13 
yagis, etc. when I am SK.  Need I say more.

Rob
NC0B 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions



Nathan,
Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has been 
shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0 requires a 
external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works really well and 
the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps feeding it.
But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a built 
in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in price. But it 
does just work.
Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your description 
not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator they all are great 
and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and can actually be 
amazing. Not cheap at all though.
You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so going 
further isn't really all that helpful.
Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you 
expect.
First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself acquiring 
more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers, better 
antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut 
> > for
> many
> > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I 
> > am
> wanting
> > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I 
> > see
> that I
> > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent 
> > OCXO-based
> device,
> > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply 
> > accurate
> timing
> > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and 
> > a
> frequency
> > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF 
> > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some 
> > higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> > So what I have learned so far about each option:
> > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by 
> > itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the 
> > microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an 
> > adjustment pin
> for a
> > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that 
> > voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably 
> > build an
> OCXO device
> > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money 
> > to
> obtain
> > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
> > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not
> traceable in
> > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the 
> > available standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better 
> > than I am
> likely to
> > need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, 
> > with
> unknown
> > hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They
> appear to be
> > power hogs. A $200 gamble.
> > -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary
> standards.
> > Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item#
> 231803015799 on the
> > usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also
> looked at
> > item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation 
> > about
> what's
> > inside.
>
> The first item you reference is a Nortel GPSTM with all the “stuff” to 
> make it work other than the power supply. If you dig into the 
> archives, there is a *lot* of information on them there.
>
> The second item is a Chinese Ham built GPSDO without the antenna. It 
> has the nice feature of being actively developed. If y

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Rob Sherwood .]

Hi Nathan,

I have had all three types of house standards over time.  For decades I used 
Sulzer 2.5 and 5.0 MHz standards for my ham shack / lab. See link.  

http://leapsecond.com/museum/sul25-1/ 

Of course there are much more modern and small units today, but it was a 
exciting to track them against WWVB back in the 1970s and 1980s.  You never 
wanted them to lose power, or it took weeks for them to settle down again. 

Many of my HP pieces of test equipment have HP 10811 OCXO units in them.  They 
are very good, even if old, assuming the oven is working correctly.  I think 
any piece of HP equipment with a 10811 in it will also lock to an external 
standard.  This is good because it is really touchy to try to set a 10811 right 
on frequency. (I am assuming you are trying to set it within 1x10^-8 or 
better.)  

In the mid to late 1990s I bought a NOS Efratom M-100 Rubidium. I wish I knew 
the date.  See link.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREQUENCY-STANDARD-CALIBRATOR-RUBIDIUM-OSCILLATOR-EFRATOM-M-100-AS-IS-BIN-H9-04-/252224570043?hash=item3ab9c182bb:g:HR4AAOSw1XdUXjnS

It has been in operation 24/7 ever since then, and it has very good phase noise 
and has been within 1x10^-10 all these years.  Who knows why it has been so 
stable. It has been so good I purchased a Lucent / Efratom Rubidium for my 
other QTH / Lab. It also is within 10^-10, though I don't run it 24/7.  It 
takes about 5 minutes to warm up, though it is more stable after an hour if we 
are really picking nits.  

I have a GPSDO at both locations to check on the accuracy of the Rubidium 
oscillators periodically.  The phase noise of the Rubidium oscillators and my 
Trak GPSDO are better than -130 dBc @ 1 kHz offset.  Assuming accuracy of 
around 1 part in 10^-10 is more than adequate for a house standard, you cannot 
go wrong with a good Rubidium.

Your first example of a GPSDO on eBay is available from RDR Electronics. You 
cannot go wrong with them. Skip is an expert on time and frequency equipment, 
and the company stands behind their sales.  They happen to be in Denver, and I 
have been to their store many times.  I know nothing about your second option, 
but those units are on eBay all the time. Considering the support you can get 
from RDR Electronics, I would go with that if you want a GPSDO. They have 
Rubidium oscillators, too. 

An HP 8640A or B will not lock to a standard, as the basic oscillator is a 
cavity. The 8640B can stabilized to its counter, but keeping 8640s working, and 
not having cracked gears is a challenge. I never heard of an 8650. You might 
consider an 8657B for a generator. For a counter consider an HP 5335A.  If you 
need 11 digits, then an HP 5345A is good, but very large and complicated. (I 
have both.) 

You will need a distribution amplifier for your house standard if you are going 
to run a lot of equipment off of it (say 6 or more). Otherwise a Mini-Circuits 
hybrid splitter will work.  (2 way, 3 way or 4 way) I use a 4-way splitter off 
the Lucent for two 8642A generators and two 3336C generators.  It just depends 
on the output level of the house standard and how much signal a given piece of 
equipment needs to lock. An 8657B will likely be good enough as to phase noise 
for general usage.  If you are trying to test state-of-the-art radios like I 
do, then there is no affordable used HP generator good enough except the HP 
8642A.  Even the 8662A isn't low enough in phase noise to test the absolute top 
low-phase noise amateur transceivers on the market today. (Flex 6000, Apache 
ANAN 200, Elecraft K3S or KX3) Keeping 8662A or 8642A synthesizers working is 
not a piece of cake, so I would stay away from them unless you really need low 
phase noise generators.  

Good luck, and welcome to the hobby. I got my general in 1961, and it has been 
a wonderful experience.

73, Rob Sherwood, NC0B 

   


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Johnson
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:26 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions



Hello All,
I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut for many 
more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I am wanting 
to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I see that I 
have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent OCXO-based 
device, a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply 
accurate timing to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 
8640/8650-something) and a frequency counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in 
aligning radios.
In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF 
transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some higher 
frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
So what I have learned so far about each option:
-OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by itself 
provides no guarantee

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[paul swed]

Nathan,
Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
feeding it.
But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
price. But it does just work.
Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and
can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
going further isn't really all that helpful.
Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
expect.
First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself acquiring
more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers, better
antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut for
> many
> > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I am
> wanting
> > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I see
> that I
> > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent OCXO-based
> device,
> > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply accurate
> timing
> > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and a
> frequency
> > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some higher
> > frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> > So what I have learned so far about each option:
> > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by itself
> > provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the microwave
> > operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an adjustment pin
> for a
> > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that voltage
> > without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably build an
> OCXO device
> > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money to
> obtain
> > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
> > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not
> traceable in
> > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the available
> > standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better than I am
> likely to
> > need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, with
> unknown
> > hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They
> appear to be
> > power hogs. A $200 gamble.
> > -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary
> standards.
> > Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item#
> 231803015799 on the
> > usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also
> looked at
> > item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about
> what's
> > inside.
>
> The first item you reference is a Nortel GPSTM with all the “stuff” to
> make it work other
> than the power supply. If you dig into the archives, there is a *lot* of
> information on them there.
>
> The second item is a Chinese Ham built GPSDO without the antenna. It has
> the nice feature
> of being actively developed. If you can read Chinese, you can tune in to
> the lists that have
> information on it.
>
> Of the two, I’d go for the first one from a US seller that I’ve had good
> luck with.
>
> A somewhat more “do it yourself” option is:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221852021307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
>
> combined with a GPS receiver board.  They also are available in a “2 for a
> bit less” form from the same seller.
>
> Each item has it’s plusses and minuses. The third item has a pretty clean
> 15 MHz output for microwave use.
> All of the 10 MHz outputs are a bit dirty noise wise if you decide to
> multiply them up to > 10 GHz. The normal approach
> in that case is to lock up a clean 100 to 150 MHz range VCXO to the GPSDO
> and then multiply the
> VCXO output to microwaves.
>
> All of them are quite adequate to supply a reference to a signal generator
> or a counter. All are good enough
> for normal HF radio use.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> > Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path?
> Appriciate any
> > and all input.
> > Nathan KK4REY
> >
> > Sent using CloudMagic Email
> > [
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi

Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Lizeth Norman]

Spend reasonable money. Learn, ask questions, rinse and repeat. It's
how a mountain of stuff followed me home. Wife is cool with it.

Electrical fires are a learning experience. Try not to repeat those.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> Hello All,
> I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut for many
> more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I am
> wanting
> to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I see
> that I
> have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent OCXO-based
> device,
> a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply accurate
> timing
> to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and a
> frequency
> counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some higher
> frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> So what I have learned so far about each option:
> -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by itself
> provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the microwave
> operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an adjustment pin for
> a
> tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that voltage
> without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably build an OCXO
> device
> of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money to
> obtain
> something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
> -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not traceable
> in
> terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the available
> standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better than I am likely
> to
> need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, with
> unknown
> hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They appear to
> be
> power hogs. A $200 gamble.
> -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary
> standards.
> Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item# 231803015799 on
> the
> usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also looked at
> item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about
> what's
> inside.
> Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path? Appriciate
> any
> and all input.
> Nathan KK4REY
>
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
> ___
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Bob Camp]

Hi

> On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut for many
> more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I am wanting
> to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I see that 
> I
> have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent OCXO-based 
> device,
> a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply accurate 
> timing
> to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and a 
> frequency
> counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some higher
> frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> So what I have learned so far about each option:
> -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by itself
> provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the microwave
> operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an adjustment pin for a
> tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that voltage
> without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably build an OCXO 
> device
> of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money to obtain
> something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
> -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not traceable 
> in
> terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the available
> standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better than I am likely to
> need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, with unknown
> hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They appear to 
> be
> power hogs. A $200 gamble.
> -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary standards.
> Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item# 231803015799 on 
> the
> usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also looked at
> item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about 
> what's
> inside.

The first item you reference is a Nortel GPSTM with all the “stuff” to make it 
work other 
than the power supply. If you dig into the archives, there is a *lot* of 
information on them there.

The second item is a Chinese Ham built GPSDO without the antenna. It has the 
nice feature
of being actively developed. If you can read Chinese, you can tune in to the 
lists that have
information on it. 

Of the two, I’d go for the first one from a US seller that I’ve had good luck 
with.

A somewhat more “do it yourself” option is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221852021307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

combined with a GPS receiver board.  They also are available in a “2 for a bit 
less” form from the same seller. 

Each item has it’s plusses and minuses. The third item has a pretty clean 15 
MHz output for microwave use.
All of the 10 MHz outputs are a bit dirty noise wise if you decide to multiply 
them up to > 10 GHz. The normal approach
in that case is to lock up a clean 100 to 150 MHz range VCXO to the GPSDO and 
then multiply the
VCXO output to microwaves. 

All of them are quite adequate to supply a reference to a signal generator or a 
counter. All are good enough
for normal HF radio use. 

Bob



> Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path? Appriciate any
> and all input.
> Nathan KK4REY
> 
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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[time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

[Nathan Johnson]

Hello All,
I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut for 
many
more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I am 
wanting
to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I see 
that I
have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent OCXO-based 
device,
a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply accurate 
timing
to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and a 
frequency

counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some higher
frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
So what I have learned so far about each option:
-OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by itself
provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the microwave
operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an adjustment pin 
for a

tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that voltage
without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably build an OCXO 
device
of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money to 
obtain

something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc.
-Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not 
traceable in

terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the available
standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better than I am likely 
to
need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, with 
unknown
hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They appear 
to be

power hogs. A $200 gamble.
-GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary 
standards.
Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item# 231803015799 
on the
usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also looked 
at
item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about 
what's

inside.
Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path? Appriciate 
any

and all input.
Nathan KK4REY

Sent using CloudMagic Email
[https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2]
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The power input is fully isolated from the case. That's typical telecom 
practice. In addition it's run through a full wave bridge, so polarity (and 
wiring errors) are not as big a deal. You *could* run one off of +/- 12 volts. 
Anything between about 22 volts and 56 volts will run the unit. 

Bob

On Sep 2, 2013, at 10:32 PM, quartz55  wrote:

> That's +24 VDC 'or' -48 VDC.  Nothing in between.  I have a hard time in ebay 
> searching for things.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member

[Tom Miller]

24 Volt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Volt-BVA-24AS1-2-Power-Supply-24VDC-1-2amps-Used-Warranty-/200923505233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec7f96251

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Volt-7-Amp-DC-Power-Supply-International-Power-IHE24-7-2-/160956416537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2579c00219#ht_388wt_673

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEAN-WELL-AC-DC-Power-Supply-Single-Output-24-Volt-1-8A-43W-Power-Supplies-Wa-/110906750531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d28eb643#ht_399wt_911

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEAN-WELL-AC-DC-Power-Supply-Single-Output-24-Volt-2-5A-60W-/110778716496?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19caed1150#ht_468wt_911

48 Volt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-AC-DC-Power-Supply-Single-Output-48-Volt-2-2A-105-6W-S-100F-48-/400519292523?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item5d40cf666b#ht_514wt_673

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEAN-WELL-AC-DC-Enclosed-Switching-Power-Supply-Single-Output-48-Volt-4-2A-201W-/121105260543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c326f9fff#ht_361wt_911

etc...


- Original Message - 
From: "quartz55" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 10:32 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] New Member


That's +24 VDC 'or' -48 VDC.  Nothing in between.  I have a hard time in 
ebay searching for things.

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[time-nuts] New Member

[Mark Sims]

The input voltage for the NTBW goes though a reverse polarity protection diode 
into an isolating DC-DC converter.  It should work from any voltage between 24 
and 48V (probably even a wider range).  The input supply can be either polarity 
as long as you hook it up right since the DC-DC input and outputs are isolated. 

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[time-nuts] New Member

[quartz55]

That's +24 VDC 'or' -48 VDC.  Nothing in between.  I have a hard time in ebay 
searching for things.
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Re: [time-nuts] New Member

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Since it's 24 to 48 volts, there are a lot of things that run off that sort of 
power. The auction sites are full of various switchers that will work. Often a 
big one isn't much more than a small one. The Meanwell's seem to be pretty good 
(I may have that spelled wrong). 

Bob

On Sep 2, 2013, at 7:53 PM, quartz55  wrote:

> New guy here, old to radio.  Just purchased a Nortel NTBW50AA and antenna 
> from the guy in CO for what I thought was a good price.  All I'm interested 
> in is a solid 10MHz signal to lock things in the shack to.  Recently 
> purchased a XRef-VS from VK3HZ, haven't gotten either yet.  Also have a LPRO 
> that I've had for a while, but the only think I could lock with it is my 
> Motorola Service Monitor, which helps some.  Plan is to lock the TS-2000 to 
> the GPSDO and also check the LPRO.
> 
> I may have questions if things don't work, but I've got the LH and the 
> trimble mon also.  It'll probably be later this week before I get anything.
> 
> Are there any secrets anyone would care to share about the NTBW30AA?  
> Apparently all it needs is +24 or -48 VDC.  Anyone know of a little switched 
> supply that will work?  Otherwise I have a large 5A 35V transformer and an 
> LM338T.  Not sure I need the regulator.
> 
> Later
> Dave
> N3DT
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[time-nuts] New Member

[quartz55]

New guy here, old to radio.  Just purchased a Nortel NTBW50AA and antenna from 
the guy in CO for what I thought was a good price.  All I'm interested in is a 
solid 10MHz signal to lock things in the shack to.  Recently purchased a 
XRef-VS from VK3HZ, haven't gotten either yet.  Also have a LPRO that I've had 
for a while, but the only think I could lock with it is my Motorola Service 
Monitor, which helps some.  Plan is to lock the TS-2000 to the GPSDO and also 
check the LPRO.

I may have questions if things don't work, but I've got the LH and the trimble 
mon also.  It'll probably be later this week before I get anything.

Are there any secrets anyone would care to share about the NTBW30AA?  
Apparently all it needs is +24 or -48 VDC.  Anyone know of a little switched 
supply that will work?  Otherwise I have a large 5A 35V transformer and an 
LM338T.  Not sure I need the regulator.

Later
Dave
N3DT
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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Chris Albertson]

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM, David J Taylor <
david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Chris Albertson
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:55 PM
> []
>
> Power is a bigger issue.  It really does cost a bit to keep some
> machines owered up 24x7 and NTP needs to run all the time.  It takes
> NTP hours to stabilize and you want to wait 24 hours after to measure
> performance.
> []
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> ==**==
>
>
> I see this "hours" or "many hours" figure quoted, and yet here NTP is
> sufficiently accurate within a few minutes.


For most uses "sufficiently" is about 0.1 seconds.  Maybe 0.01 seconds for
some critical data logging.   But this being a time nuts
list "sufficiently" means "unable, even with great effort to make it
better."

But also what is the point of a server it you don't run it 24x7?


Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[ken johnson]

Again on power consumption, I used to run my web server (ubuntu
10.04lts) on a fanless mini-itx board, about 30 or so watts- now it's
on a BeagleBone arm board about the size of a credit card, still
running ubuntu , consumption is down to a whole 2 watts. I have it
running ntp and serving time to the rest of my home network. Even 'er
indoors thinks that sort of power consumption is acceptable!



On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 2:20 AM, David J Taylor
 wrote:
> From: Chris Albertson
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:55 PM
> []
> Power is a bigger issue.  It really does cost a bit to keep some
> machines owered up 24x7 and NTP needs to run all the time.  It takes
> NTP hours to stabilize and you want to wait 24 hours after to measure
> performance.
> []
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
>
>
> I see this "hours" or "many hours" figure quoted, and yet here NTP is
> sufficiently accurate within a few minutes.  I'm thinking within 200
> microseconds, on a Windows system fed with a PPS signal on the serial port,
> which is good enough for me, but not perhaps for others.  To get within,
> say, ~10 microseconds on a FreeBSD system, then within an hour or so seems
> to be enough.  Agreed that running 24 x 7 is the ideal state for a server,
> and that a fanless Intel Atom system is an excellent way to reduce cost.
>
> Cheers,
> David
> --
> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
> Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
>
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-- 
Cheers, Ken
bats...@gmail.com
www.vk7krj.com

'It seems hard to sneak a look at God's cards. But that He plays dice and uses
"telepathic" methods  is something that I cannot believe for a single
moment.' (Einstein's famous quote on Quantum theory)

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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[David J Taylor]

From: Chris Albertson
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:55 PM
[]
Power is a bigger issue.  It really does cost a bit to keep some
machines owered up 24x7 and NTP needs to run all the time.  It takes
NTP hours to stabilize and you want to wait 24 hours after to measure
performance.
[]
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California



I see this "hours" or "many hours" figure quoted, and yet here NTP is 
sufficiently accurate within a few minutes.  I'm thinking within 200 
microseconds, on a Windows system fed with a PPS signal on the serial port, 
which is good enough for me, but not perhaps for others.  To get within, 
say, ~10 microseconds on a FreeBSD system, then within an hour or so seems 
to be enough.  Agreed that running 24 x 7 is the ideal state for a server, 
and that a fanless Intel Atom system is an excellent way to reduce cost.


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk 



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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Chris Albertson]

> Do you include Sun (now Oracle) Solaris in the list of "others"? I ask
> more out of interest than anything else, but a large proportion of the
> machines here run Solaris. The only two machine that run 24/7, run
> Solaris.
>
> I've got machines here running CentOS Linux, Solaris (SPARC), Solaris
> (x86), OpenSolaris (x86), AIX (PowerPC), HP-UX (PA-RISC), Windows 7,
> 32-bit Windows XP, 64-bit Windows XP .. plus any I forgot. I used to
> have tru64 and IRIX too, but decided they were a bit old hat.

What is your goal for accuracy?  NTP can be as good as about 2 uSec if
you do everything following best practice.  But you can also use a USB
connected GPS with an indoor antenna and MS Windows for the server and
get in the "handful of milliseconds" range.  That would be three
orders of magnitude worse but still good enough for most uses.

One of the conciderations is how well (and if) the pulse per second
driver is implemented.   Ideally this would be about 12 lines of code
in the interrupt handler.   The last time I used SPARC for an NTP
server it was a 32-bit CPU running SunOS in the pre-solaris days. Si
it was BSD based.  It worked well.

If you want help it would be best to use linux or BSD running on an
Intel CPU.  On that arthitectue the DCD pin on the serial port is tied
to an interrupt controller and it is very simple

Power is a bigger issue.  It really does cost a bit to keep some
machines owered up 24x7 and NTP needs to run all the time.  It takes
NTP hours to stabilize and you want to wait 24 hours after to measure
performance.

If you don't need the frquency standard all the time you might use a
lower powered GPS for NTP.  THere are many good ones.  I have a couple
Moterola "UT+" units I got for $18 each.  These output a PPS with 1
sigma error under 100 nanoseconds, better than NTP can use.  The UT+
is tiny, credit card size.   t-bolts use more power because of the
OCXO heater.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[David Kirkby]

On 18 August 2012 03:32, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Frank Hughes  wrote:
> The best OS to use  is either BSD or Linux.  These have order of
> magnitude better performance than others for this purpose

Do you include Sun (now Oracle) Solaris in the list of "others"? I ask
more out of interest than anything else, but a large proportion of the
machines here run Solaris. The only two machine that run 24/7, run
Solaris.

I've got machines here running CentOS Linux, Solaris (SPARC), Solaris
(x86), OpenSolaris (x86), AIX (PowerPC), HP-UX (PA-RISC), Windows 7,
32-bit Windows XP, 64-bit Windows XP .. plus any I forgot. I used to
have tru64 and IRIX too, but decided they were a bit old hat.

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[J. L. Trantham]

Frank,

I use a Trimble Thunderbolt that puts out 10 MHz and 1 PPS.  I also use a
Z3816A that also puts out 10 MHz and 1 PPS along with another frequency that
I can't remember right now.  Both can be monitored with their respective
software programs and a serial cable.  The Z3816A needs a null modem adapter
IIRC.  Both put out 5 VDC to power a GPS Antenna.  I use a 58536A Active
Splitter to feed the antenna to both units along with some 'spare' GPSDO's.

The TBolt requires +12 VDC, -12 VDC, and +5 VDC.  The Z3816A comes in at
least two variants, one requiring 120 VAC and the other something around 30
VDC.  I have seen mention that you can run it on 12 VDC if you change some
settings on the DIP switch S1 on the power board.  I have not tried that.

There is lots of useful information on the net and these lists/forums about
both units.

I distribute 10 MHz using some 5087A's with the 10 MHz cards installed.

A crystal oscillator for 10 MHz that puts out 6 MHz doesn't sound very
repairable.  Have you looked at the signal with a scope?  Is it something so
simple as major ripple/modulation from the power supply?

Good luck and hope this helps.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frank Hughes
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:12 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo


Hi,
New guy here, seeking Oracular pronouncements for my time/frequency quest!

I recently acquired an HP 3336B, and subsequently converted it to a "C"
model, as all the HAM and related equipment here is 50 ohms.

The 3336 has "Option 004: High stability frequency reference". 
Operates at about 6Mhz

I am trying to decide whether to fix the 3336 ocxo, or just use the other
working ocxo in the Agilent E8285A Spectrum Analyzer. OR It would really be
fun to provision some type of Primary Reference and accurate 10Mhz source,
and distribute the signal.

I found a bunch of them on ebay, but they are almost all in Chinawhat is
going on here?

Anyone ever had a good buying experience for this type of equipent from
China? 

While decending through this particular worm-hole,  I realized that it would
be great to have 
my own NTP server via GPS too. 
Found a bunch of GPS receivers w/ Ethernet and NTP server features, but none
w/ ocxo, only vcxo and tcxo. 
Possibly it does not matter if the reference is the Stratum-1 GPS? 
Not sure what I am looking at here (obviously)

I only know a little about these topics, as where I work we have an
Agilent_5071A, paired with a 
Symmetricom GPS PRS system. 
But as we have moved out of the old TDM and ATM technologies, we no longer
need a Stratum-1 source, (and the 5071A has used up all it's Cesium anyway).
But it was fun and I learned many things.


So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack is:
- An NTP server for our LAN 
- A very high quality 10Mhz source to distribute to all the HP and Agilent
equipment here.

I have read enough forums to become dizzy, and would be glad to buy an HP
Z3815A, or an HP Z3816A or an HP Z3801A or... I even found an HP 55300A, but
w/o the shelf it is useless, 
(100 edge connector pinouts to decipher and wire manually???)

Advice much appreciated!
73
Frank
KJ4OLL
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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Jim Lux]

On 8/17/12 10:41 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Regarding the NTP server another option is to buy a stand alone NTP server that 
can accept a 1pps and or 10 Mhz input, and feed it the GPS or other reference 
of your chosing.  I picked up a Datum unit from ebay which is currently fed 
1pps from a Jackson Labs Fury.  It also accepts 10 Mhz as well which it will 
use in lieu of it's built in VCXO.

I agree with the comments about the Fury being a nice plug and play GPSDO 
solution.   I thought long and hard about going the ebay route and acquring a 
used HP GPSDO to supplement my Thunderbolt and ended up buying the Fury.   That 
being said the price differnce between the Fury and a typical used Thunderbolt 
is signficant.

I would steer clear of the typical combined NTP, GPS units with TCXO's or 
VCXO's if you are interested in a using them as a source of a highly accurate 
10 Mhz reference signal.   The VCXO in my datum NTP server is orders of 
magnitude less stable than a typical OCXO.



Depends on the options..  The Symmetricom/TrueTime XL-DC had a low phase 
noise option that's pretty good, for instance, so if you found one that 
had the NTP option too, you're in good shape.





Installing a GPS antenna in a location with a clear view of the sky is also 
helpfull.




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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Azelio Boriani]

Welcome aboard,
I think that the first move is to acquire the reference: a TBolt is the
best, I have a Z3815A too. Then you will need a high resolution time
interval counter, unless you focus only on NTP, then only a GPS receiver is
needed. The PC is a common tool and usually it is not mentioned: we surely
have more than one, for the NTP server and for the data
gathering/processing from the measuring equipment.
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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[David J Taylor]

Hi,
New guy here, seeking Oracular pronouncements for my time/frequency quest!
[]
Anyone ever had a good buying experience for this type of equipent from 
China?

[]
So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack is:
- An NTP server for our LAN
[]
Advice much appreciated!
73
Frank
KJ4OLL
=

Frank,

I chose to separate NTP and frequency standards.  For frequency, I happened 
upon a Rapco 1904M on eBay (thanks to someone else), and I have been 
reasonably pleased with that, although getting a good enough antenna has 
been an issue:


 http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Rapco-1804M-notes.html

For NTP, Like Chris I have an Intel Atom PC, but mine is fed from a Garmin 
GPS 18 LVC puck, mounted on the sloping roof (indoors it is not sensitive 
enough).  This box is running FreeBSD 8.1, and is my most accurate NTP box:


 http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm

More recently I have purchased a Garmin GPS 18x LVC which /is/ sensitive 
enough for indoor use (I'm on the top floor of a 2 storey building) and I 
run that into a Windows PC (Win-7/32, PC Stamsund).  I'm also using a couple 
of Sure Electronics GPS evaluation boards (bought from China, no problems) 
with a very simple modification to make the PPS signal available to the 
RS-232 connector, and these are connected to a Win-7/64 PC Alta and a Win-XP 
PC Feenix:


 http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

The performance I get on the various systems, and their directly connected 
and Wi-Fi connected clients is here:


 http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php

and the server/client configuration is shown here:

 http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/daily_ntp.html#Configuration

Just some thoughts for you!

73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk 



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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Mark Spencer]

Regarding the NTP server another option is to buy a stand alone NTP server that 
can accept a 1pps and or 10 Mhz input, and feed it the GPS or other reference 
of your chosing.  I picked up a Datum unit from ebay which is currently fed 
1pps from a Jackson Labs Fury.  It also accepts 10 Mhz as well which it will 
use in lieu of it's built in VCXO.  

I agree with the comments about the Fury being a nice plug and play GPSDO 
solution.   I thought long and hard about going the ebay route and acquring a 
used HP GPSDO to supplement my Thunderbolt and ended up buying the Fury.   That 
being said the price differnce between the Fury and a typical used Thunderbolt 
is signficant.

I would steer clear of the typical combined NTP, GPS units with TCXO's or 
VCXO's if you are interested in a using them as a source of a highly accurate 
10 Mhz reference signal.   The VCXO in my datum NTP server is orders of 
magnitude less stable than a typical OCXO.

Installing a GPS antenna in a location with a clear view of the sky is also 
helpfull.





> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:35:52 -0500
> From: Bill Dailey 
> To: Frank Hughes ,   
> Discussion of precise time
>     andfrequency measurement 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS,
> GPS, ocxo
> Message-ID: <7216e83f-8aad-403a-8236-dd7d19b26...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   
> charset=us-ascii
> 
> On a budget get a thunderbolt... If you want plug and play
> get a Jackson labs Fury.  I have my fury hooked up to
> small Ubuntu box and have a nice ntp server as well as a
> great reference.  Also, read, read, and read some
> more.
> 
> Doc
> KX0O
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 8:12 PM, Frank Hughes 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > New guy here, seeking Oracular pronouncements for my
> time/frequency quest!
> > 
> > I recently acquired an HP 3336B, and subsequently
> converted it to a "C" model,
> > as all the HAM and related equipment here is 50 ohms.
> > 
> > The 3336 has "Option 004: High stability frequency
> reference". 
> > Operates at about 6Mhz
> > 
> > I am trying to decide whether to fix the 3336 ocxo, or
> just use the other working
> > ocxo in the Agilent E8285A Spectrum Analyzer.
> > OR
> > It would really be fun to provision some type of
> Primary Reference and accurate 10Mhz source, and distribute
> the signal.
> > 
> > I found a bunch of them on ebay, but they are almost
> all in Chinawhat is going on here?
> > 
> > Anyone ever had a good buying experience for this type
> of equipent from China? 
> > 
> > While decending through this particular
> worm-hole,  I realized that it would be great to have 
> > my own NTP server via GPS too. 
> > Found a bunch of GPS receivers w/ Ethernet and NTP
> server features, but none w/ ocxo, only vcxo and tcxo. 
> > Possibly it does not matter if the reference is the
> Stratum-1 GPS? 
> > Not sure what I am looking at here (obviously)
> > 
> > I only know a little about these topics, as where I
> work we have an Agilent_5071A, paired with a 
> > Symmetricom GPS PRS system. 
> > But as we have moved out of the old TDM and ATM
> technologies, we no longer need a Stratum-1 source,
> > (and the 5071A has used up all it's Cesium anyway). But
> it was fun and I learned many things.
> > 
> > 
> > So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack
> is:
> > - An NTP server for our LAN 
> > - A very high quality 10Mhz source to distribute to all
> the HP and Agilent equipment here.
> > 
> > I have read enough forums to become dizzy, and would be
> glad to buy an HP Z3815A, or
> > an HP Z3816A or an HP Z3801A or...
> > I even found an HP 55300A, but w/o the shelf it is
> useless, 
> > (100 edge connector pinouts to decipher and wire
> manually???)
> > 
> > Advice much appreciated!
> > 73
> > Frank
> > KJ4OLL
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> ___
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> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 97, Issue 42
> *
> 

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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Bill Dailey]

On a budget get a thunderbolt... If you want plug and play get a Jackson labs 
Fury.  I have my fury hooked up to small Ubuntu box and have a nice ntp server 
as well as a great reference.  Also, read, read, and read some more.

Doc
KX0O

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 17, 2012, at 8:12 PM, Frank Hughes  wrote:

> Hi,
> New guy here, seeking Oracular pronouncements for my time/frequency quest!
> 
> I recently acquired an HP 3336B, and subsequently converted it to a "C" model,
> as all the HAM and related equipment here is 50 ohms.
> 
> The 3336 has "Option 004: High stability frequency reference". 
> Operates at about 6Mhz
> 
> I am trying to decide whether to fix the 3336 ocxo, or just use the other 
> working
> ocxo in the Agilent E8285A Spectrum Analyzer.
> OR
> It would really be fun to provision some type of Primary Reference and 
> accurate 10Mhz source, and distribute the signal.
> 
> I found a bunch of them on ebay, but they are almost all in Chinawhat is 
> going on here?
> 
> Anyone ever had a good buying experience for this type of equipent from 
> China? 
> 
> While decending through this particular worm-hole,  I realized that it would 
> be great to have 
> my own NTP server via GPS too. 
> Found a bunch of GPS receivers w/ Ethernet and NTP server features, but none 
> w/ ocxo, only vcxo and tcxo. 
> Possibly it does not matter if the reference is the Stratum-1 GPS? 
> Not sure what I am looking at here (obviously)
> 
> I only know a little about these topics, as where I work we have an 
> Agilent_5071A, paired with a 
> Symmetricom GPS PRS system. 
> But as we have moved out of the old TDM and ATM technologies, we no longer 
> need a Stratum-1 source,
> (and the 5071A has used up all it's Cesium anyway). But it was fun and I 
> learned many things.
> 
> 
> So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack is:
> - An NTP server for our LAN 
> - A very high quality 10Mhz source to distribute to all the HP and Agilent 
> equipment here.
> 
> I have read enough forums to become dizzy, and would be glad to buy an HP 
> Z3815A, or
> an HP Z3816A or an HP Z3801A or...
> I even found an HP 55300A, but w/o the shelf it is useless, 
> (100 edge connector pinouts to decipher and wire manually???)
> 
> Advice much appreciated!
> 73
> Frank
> KJ4OLL
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Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Frank Hughes  wrote:

> So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack is:
> - An NTP server for our LAN
> - A very high quality 10Mhz source to distribute to all the HP and Agilent 
> equipment here.

Here is what I would do again,...

1) first get the NTP server running but use pool servers from the
Internet as the reference clocks.  Get this working well before you
attempt to set up a GPS.   But when you choose a computer make sure
that it has an RS-232 serial port.  Accuracy is more then an order of
magnitude better then a USB hookup.   It fack USB is so poor you can't
take full advantage of GPS.   I use an Intel Atom board.  I got the
one that uses a pasive heat sink and it only burns a very few watts.
This matters becaue it runs 24x7.  A big PC can cost $40 a month to
run.  The best OS to use  is either BSD or Linux.  These have order of
magnitude better performance than others for this purpose

2) Find a place for a GPS antenna.  It should be able to see to the
horizon all 360 degrees.  Well if you live in the USA some blockage to
the North is OK.  Put it on a short mast and as a ham you know about
lightening and grounding and so on..  Don't skimp on that.   3/4 iron
plumbing pipe with a pipe flange on top makes a perfect mast and you
can run the cable down the pipe.   Getting a good view of the entire
sky helps a lot.   Although it can work even just looking out a
window.The 75 ohm double sheiled cable TV coax works well and is
cheap.

3) Buy a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS from eBay.  These are the best and
easy to use and cost maybe $125.  They produce a very good 10MHz
output from an internal OCXO.  They also have a one pulse per second
output and of course serial rs-232

4) Finally connect Thunderbolt's PPS and serial data to the computer
and edit the NTP config file to add the GPS.  Keep the Internet pool
servers.

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

[Frank Hughes]

Hi,
New guy here, seeking Oracular pronouncements for my time/frequency quest!

I recently acquired an HP 3336B, and subsequently converted it to a "C" model,
as all the HAM and related equipment here is 50 ohms.

The 3336 has "Option 004: High stability frequency reference". 
Operates at about 6Mhz

I am trying to decide whether to fix the 3336 ocxo, or just use the other 
working
ocxo in the Agilent E8285A Spectrum Analyzer.
OR
It would really be fun to provision some type of Primary Reference and accurate 
10Mhz source, and distribute the signal.

I found a bunch of them on ebay, but they are almost all in Chinawhat is 
going on here?

Anyone ever had a good buying experience for this type of equipent from China? 

While decending through this particular worm-hole,  I realized that it would be 
great to have 
my own NTP server via GPS too. 
Found a bunch of GPS receivers w/ Ethernet and NTP server features, but none w/ 
ocxo, only vcxo and tcxo. 
Possibly it does not matter if the reference is the Stratum-1 GPS? 
Not sure what I am looking at here (obviously)

I only know a little about these topics, as where I work we have an 
Agilent_5071A, paired with a 
Symmetricom GPS PRS system. 
But as we have moved out of the old TDM and ATM technologies, we no longer need 
a Stratum-1 source,
(and the 5071A has used up all it's Cesium anyway). But it was fun and I 
learned many things.


So what I am trying to come up with now for home/shack is:
- An NTP server for our LAN 
- A very high quality 10Mhz source to distribute to all the HP and Agilent 
equipment here.

I have read enough forums to become dizzy, and would be glad to buy an HP 
Z3815A, or
an HP Z3816A or an HP Z3801A or...
I even found an HP 55300A, but w/o the shelf it is useless, 
(100 edge connector pinouts to decipher and wire manually???)

Advice much appreciated!
73
Frank
KJ4OLL
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Re: [time-nuts] New member, and HP 5061A question

[GandalfG8]

 
In a message dated 17/06/2008 00:55:07 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

Actually, one more question - is there any way to search the list  
archives? Either I'm blind, or there's not, or it's not  obvious.



--
Hi Bill
 
Welcome aboard, and may your time lunacy be long lived and, of course, to  
the nearest femtosecond or so:-)
 
I can't help with your question re the 10638A and, in answer to the  above, 
can't comment on your blindness either
an optician's probably much better for that
but can say that a Google search works wonders for the not too  obvious:-)
 
Try here...
 
_http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/_ 
(http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/) 
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 



   
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Re: [time-nuts] New member, and HP 5061A question

[WB6BNQ]

Bill,

The following URL should allow you to search the archives:

http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/

BillWB6BNQ


wje wrote:

> Actually, one more question - is there any way to search the list
> archives? Either I'm blind, or there's not, or it's not obvious.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Bill Ezell
> --
> They said 'Windows or better'
> so I used Linux.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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[time-nuts] New member, and HP 5061A question

[wje]

Although I've scanned the list fairly regularly, I haven't been subscribed.
I finally decided to rectify that.

I have Z3801 as my workhorse reference. I built a little adapter for it 
to provide time and 1pps data to NTP running on my Linux system and a 
buffered 10 Mhz feed to my lab for a reference signal.
I have a number of FRK, FRS, and FE-5680A rubidium oscillators doing 
various things.
My new prize is a 5061A with a fairly new high-output tube. (It was sold 
as non-working; all it needed was for the ion pump to run for a while. 
Lucky me!)

Time isn't all that I'm precise about; I maintain a pair of Datron 4910 
voltage standards that I pay an absurd amount to Fluke to calibrate 
every once and a while.
I have a collection of 7 digit laboratory voltmeters,  a Solartron 7081 
8 digit meter, A Fluke 343 voltage calibrator (these are also great 
calibrators, and cheap, too),
a Fluke 5400 AC calibrator, a Ballantine 1605A precision AC calibrator, 
a pair of HP 5370's ( a true miracle of engineering - after lots of 
tedious fiddling, one of them reports 11 ps of internal jitter), and a 
bunch of other meters, standards, etc.

Which finally leads to my question - does anyone have any info on the HP 
10638A degausser for my 5061A? What I'm looking for is an idea of what 
current and frequency profile is used for degaussing. These units seem 
to be hard to come by, at least for any reasonable price.

Actually, one more question - is there any way to search the list 
archives? Either I'm blind, or there's not, or it's not obvious.

Thanks!

-- 
Bill Ezell
--
They said 'Windows or better'
so I used Linux.


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Re: [time-nuts] New member with an HP5060A

[Joseph Gray]

This guy sells a manual for $58:

http://www.w7fg.com/manuals.php?find=H&page=11


- Original Message - 
From: "Micke (ComHem_kort)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:44
Subject: [time-nuts] New member with an HP5060A



Hi there,



My name is Mikael Alexandersson, I have an old Cesium, a HP5060A (sn 055 
!).


Do you any advice how to start checking up this unit, a quick look inside
the unit reveals that it seems a bit different then the HP5061A.



If I can't get it in order (as I assume that I couldn't.), I was thinking 
of

slaving the HP5060 oscillator to a Motorola M12+ timing receiver.

So another issue is,  is it possible to find any manuals anywhere?





Best Regards,



Mikael A





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Re: [time-nuts] New member with an HP5060A

[Joseph Gray]

A Google search finds this information:

http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/5060A.html

- Original Message - 
From: "Micke (ComHem_kort)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:44
Subject: [time-nuts] New member with an HP5060A



Hi there,



My name is Mikael Alexandersson, I have an old Cesium, a HP5060A (sn 055 
!).


Do you any advice how to start checking up this unit, a quick look inside
the unit reveals that it seems a bit different then the HP5061A.



If I can't get it in order (as I assume that I couldn't.), I was thinking 
of

slaving the HP5060 oscillator to a Motorola M12+ timing receiver.

So another issue is,  is it possible to find any manuals anywhere?





Best Regards,



Mikael A





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[time-nuts] New member with an HP5060A

[Micke \(ComHem_kort\)]

Hi there,

 

My name is Mikael Alexandersson, I have an old Cesium, a HP5060A (sn 055 !).

Do you any advice how to start checking up this unit, a quick look inside
the unit reveals that it seems a bit different then the HP5061A.

 

If I can't get it in order (as I assume that I couldn't.), I was thinking of
slaving the HP5060 oscillator to a Motorola M12+ timing receiver.

So another issue is,  is it possible to find any manuals anywhere?

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Mikael A

 

 

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