Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
Tom, Please see: https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2128.pdf https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf OEM628 and OEM638 boards can take an external frequency reference (218/4.10.5), but OEM615 cannot. I've never tried it. To get the exact time of the PPS you need to enable the TIME message (219/3.2.173) with something like (untested): LOG TIMEA ONTIME 1 A typical way to use the Novatel solution is to wire signals for the events of interest -- say a camera shutter or start of frame (SOF) or a LIDAR start of scan (SOS) -- into the receiver on one of the several event inputs. With a suitable configuration, the log will contain messages with the current 6-dof + time solution for the event edges. If you are also logging the full receiver state, you can post-process the events into better 6-dof + time solutions. -- Christopher 73 de AI6KG On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > Christopher, > > Thanks for that additional information. Can you (or Gregory) also comment > on the external frequency input / output and the 1PPS output of this > receiver? > > A quick look at the om-2128.pdf and om-2129.pdf documents has > words like "better than 250 ns accuracy" and "50 ns increments" but I > didn't see mention of 1PPS quantization, sawtooth correction, or other > words commonly used in GPS timing receiver specifications. I'm guessing > this product is mostly designed for the PN part of PNT (Positioning, > Navigation, Timing)? > > /tvb > > - Original Message - > From: "Christopher Hoover" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" < > time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 12:35 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay > > > >I have quite a bit of experience with Novatel hardware include OEM6, CPT > > and SPAN. > > > > CPT is an IMU made by KVH and relabeled by Novatel.The accelerometers > > are MEMs and the roll rate sensors are FOGs. Pretty old design. > > Performance is decent (but not auto alignment good). > > > > http://www.kvh.com/Military-and-Government/Gyros-and- > Inertial-Systems-and-Compasses/Gyros-and-IMUs-and-INS/IMUs/CG-5100.aspx > > > > SPAN is the "solution."SPAN-CPT puts the CPT IMU and the receiver in > a > > single box. You could also get just the CPT in a box. > > > > The feature set enabled depends on the software keys that are loaded. > > Caveat emptor. > > > > Dual receiver (even if you have the hardware) and ALIGN feature are extra > > features. > > > > Also worth noting is that the circular connectors used on some of the > > hardware are pricey. Some are impossible to assemble without specialty > > tools. > > > > -- Christopher. > > 73 de AI6KG > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:36 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > > > >> Any idea what they are selling for at this time? > >> > >> I see that some sold for the BIN price of $349.99 up until June 20. > After > >> that, 'Offer Accepted' occurred up through October 5, with a BIN price > now > >> of $649.99, all plus $40 shipping. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Gregory > >> Maxwell > >> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:17 PM > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay > >> > >> There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single > >> Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number > available. > >> > >> This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, > >> SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros > >> (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) > and an > >> 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual > >> frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. > >> The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern > than > >> it actually is. > >> > >> The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the > outside > >> of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. > >> Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) > >> firmware. There is a windows
Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
Hi One would *guess* that since it has the 702 antenna on it, it does have L1/L2 firmware enabled in the receiver ( 701 = single L1 band, 702 = L1 / L2, 703 = L1,L2.L5 ). Indeed the hardware spans a wide range of “things” depending on the exact license keys you shoot into it. Buying those keys “after the fact” never seemed to be very cost effective …. Bob > On Oct 9, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > Christopher, > > Thanks for that additional information. Can you (or Gregory) also comment on > the external frequency input / output and the 1PPS output of this receiver? > > A quick look at the om-2128.pdf and om-2129.pdf documents has words > like "better than 250 ns accuracy" and "50 ns increments" but I didn't see > mention of 1PPS quantization, sawtooth correction, or other words commonly > used in GPS timing receiver specifications. I'm guessing this product is > mostly designed for the PN part of PNT (Positioning, Navigation, Timing)? > > /tvb > > - Original Message - > From: "Christopher Hoover" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 12:35 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay > > >> I have quite a bit of experience with Novatel hardware include OEM6, CPT >> and SPAN. >> >> CPT is an IMU made by KVH and relabeled by Novatel.The accelerometers >> are MEMs and the roll rate sensors are FOGs. Pretty old design. >> Performance is decent (but not auto alignment good). >> >> http://www.kvh.com/Military-and-Government/Gyros-and-Inertial-Systems-and-Compasses/Gyros-and-IMUs-and-INS/IMUs/CG-5100.aspx >> >> SPAN is the "solution."SPAN-CPT puts the CPT IMU and the receiver in a >> single box. You could also get just the CPT in a box. >> >> The feature set enabled depends on the software keys that are loaded. >> Caveat emptor. >> >> Dual receiver (even if you have the hardware) and ALIGN feature are extra >> features. >> >> Also worth noting is that the circular connectors used on some of the >> hardware are pricey. Some are impossible to assemble without specialty >> tools. >> >> -- Christopher. >> 73 de AI6KG >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:36 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: >> >>> Any idea what they are selling for at this time? >>> >>> I see that some sold for the BIN price of $349.99 up until June 20. After >>> that, 'Offer Accepted' occurred up through October 5, with a BIN price now >>> of $649.99, all plus $40 shipping. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory >>> Maxwell >>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:17 PM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay >>> >>> There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single >>> Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number available. >>> >>> This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, >>> SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros >>> (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) and an >>> 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual >>> frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. >>> The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern than >>> it actually is. >>> >>> The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the outside >>> of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. >>> Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) >>> firmware. There is a windows based firmware update tool which talks to it >>> over serial and is very straight forward (The firmware update OEM6631.zip >>> can be found via google). >>> >>> You can communicate with them over serial in ascii, there is extensive >>> firmware documentation that goes over every command >>> https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf some of >>> which are specific to other modules. There is also a separate manual for >>> the inertial navigation specific features (NovAtel SPAN-CPT Users >>> manual.pdf) >>> >>> The external clock should
Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
In message <6C47315934DF482EB10A679D10C09093@pc52>, "Tom Van Baak" writes: >I'm guessing this product is >mostly designed for the PN part of PNT (Positioning, Navigation, Timing)? At least with the firmwares I have had a chance to test, that is clearly the case. I don't know if they have firmware revs focused on timing, but even if they do, the hardware for the PPS output doesn't seem particularly well geared towards real-time uses, but more for post-factum correction. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
Christopher, Thanks for that additional information. Can you (or Gregory) also comment on the external frequency input / output and the 1PPS output of this receiver? A quick look at the om-2128.pdf and om-2129.pdf documents has words like "better than 250 ns accuracy" and "50 ns increments" but I didn't see mention of 1PPS quantization, sawtooth correction, or other words commonly used in GPS timing receiver specifications. I'm guessing this product is mostly designed for the PN part of PNT (Positioning, Navigation, Timing)? /tvb - Original Message - From: "Christopher Hoover" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay >I have quite a bit of experience with Novatel hardware include OEM6, CPT > and SPAN. > > CPT is an IMU made by KVH and relabeled by Novatel.The accelerometers > are MEMs and the roll rate sensors are FOGs. Pretty old design. > Performance is decent (but not auto alignment good). > > http://www.kvh.com/Military-and-Government/Gyros-and-Inertial-Systems-and-Compasses/Gyros-and-IMUs-and-INS/IMUs/CG-5100.aspx > > SPAN is the "solution."SPAN-CPT puts the CPT IMU and the receiver in a > single box. You could also get just the CPT in a box. > > The feature set enabled depends on the software keys that are loaded. > Caveat emptor. > > Dual receiver (even if you have the hardware) and ALIGN feature are extra > features. > > Also worth noting is that the circular connectors used on some of the > hardware are pricey. Some are impossible to assemble without specialty > tools. > > -- Christopher. > 73 de AI6KG > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:36 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > >> Any idea what they are selling for at this time? >> >> I see that some sold for the BIN price of $349.99 up until June 20. After >> that, 'Offer Accepted' occurred up through October 5, with a BIN price now >> of $649.99, all plus $40 shipping. >> >> Joe >> >> -Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory >> Maxwell >> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:17 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay >> >> There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single >> Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number available. >> >> This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, >> SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros >> (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) and an >> 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual >> frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. >> The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern than >> it actually is. >> >> The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the outside >> of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. >> Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) >> firmware. There is a windows based firmware update tool which talks to it >> over serial and is very straight forward (The firmware update OEM6631.zip >> can be found via google). >> >> You can communicate with them over serial in ascii, there is extensive >> firmware documentation that goes over every command >> https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf some of >> which are specific to other modules. There is also a separate manual for >> the inertial navigation specific features (NovAtel SPAN-CPT Users >> manual.pdf) >> >> The external clock should allow you to hang it off a more stable >> oscillator which will improve the stability of the GNSS results, and _I >> presume_ improve the quality of the PPS output-- the firmware manual and >> operating manual are thin on details, and mostly just go into telling you >> how to adjust the kalman filter constants for different clock types. >> >> These also appear to support the novatel 'align' mode where you serial >> connect two receivers separated by a short baseline and get really accurate >> absolute headings; I'm planning on trying that that but haven't set it up >> yet. >> >> Looks like uber (last position was ubers offices in denver) had a fleet of >> these things. The couple I got run great, including the IMU
Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
I have quite a bit of experience with Novatel hardware include OEM6, CPT and SPAN. CPT is an IMU made by KVH and relabeled by Novatel.The accelerometers are MEMs and the roll rate sensors are FOGs. Pretty old design. Performance is decent (but not auto alignment good). http://www.kvh.com/Military-and-Government/Gyros-and-Inertial-Systems-and-Compasses/Gyros-and-IMUs-and-INS/IMUs/CG-5100.aspx SPAN is the "solution."SPAN-CPT puts the CPT IMU and the receiver in a single box. You could also get just the CPT in a box. The feature set enabled depends on the software keys that are loaded. Caveat emptor. Dual receiver (even if you have the hardware) and ALIGN feature are extra features. Also worth noting is that the circular connectors used on some of the hardware are pricey. Some are impossible to assemble without specialty tools. -- Christopher. 73 de AI6KG On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:36 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Any idea what they are selling for at this time? > > I see that some sold for the BIN price of $349.99 up until June 20. After > that, 'Offer Accepted' occurred up through October 5, with a BIN price now > of $649.99, all plus $40 shipping. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory > Maxwell > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:17 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay > > There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single > Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number available. > > This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, > SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros > (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) and an > 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual > frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. > The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern than > it actually is. > > The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the outside > of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. > Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) > firmware. There is a windows based firmware update tool which talks to it > over serial and is very straight forward (The firmware update OEM6631.zip > can be found via google). > > You can communicate with them over serial in ascii, there is extensive > firmware documentation that goes over every command > https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf some of > which are specific to other modules. There is also a separate manual for > the inertial navigation specific features (NovAtel SPAN-CPT Users > manual.pdf) > > The external clock should allow you to hang it off a more stable > oscillator which will improve the stability of the GNSS results, and _I > presume_ improve the quality of the PPS output-- the firmware manual and > operating manual are thin on details, and mostly just go into telling you > how to adjust the kalman filter constants for different clock types. > > These also appear to support the novatel 'align' mode where you serial > connect two receivers separated by a short baseline and get really accurate > absolute headings; I'm planning on trying that that but haven't set it up > yet. > > Looks like uber (last position was ubers offices in denver) had a fleet of > these things. The couple I got run great, including the IMU, the antennas > obviously spent a long time outside, but work fine. The cable they come > with is weird, but I had no problem chopping one end off and figuring out > the pinout (see bottom). > > The novatel OEM6 is well supported by rtklib and I was able to get > post-processed positions very easily. > > Seller takes best offers a fair amount below the $649 asking price. > Looks like they may have another 30 or so of them. > > May be useful for doing time transfer especially with the clock input. > Just using it to get nice dual band observations to precisely survey an > antenna location for a traditional GPSDO may improve GPSDO performance by a > fair amount. > > Here is the signals and wire colors on the cables mine came with. > YMMV, I'd suggest not blindly trusting that colors match on other > units.These cables don't plumb out many of the signals from the > module (in particular, they don't carrying COM2, which is why I haven't > tried multi-receiver headings yet, since I'd need to figure out how to talk > to it over USB if com1 is in use for that), I'm unsure if they&
Re: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
Any idea what they are selling for at this time? I see that some sold for the BIN price of $349.99 up until June 20. After that, 'Offer Accepted' occurred up through October 5, with a BIN price now of $649.99, all plus $40 shipping. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory Maxwell Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:17 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number available. This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) and an 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern than it actually is. The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the outside of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) firmware. There is a windows based firmware update tool which talks to it over serial and is very straight forward (The firmware update OEM6631.zip can be found via google). You can communicate with them over serial in ascii, there is extensive firmware documentation that goes over every command https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf some of which are specific to other modules. There is also a separate manual for the inertial navigation specific features (NovAtel SPAN-CPT Users manual.pdf) The external clock should allow you to hang it off a more stable oscillator which will improve the stability of the GNSS results, and _I presume_ improve the quality of the PPS output-- the firmware manual and operating manual are thin on details, and mostly just go into telling you how to adjust the kalman filter constants for different clock types. These also appear to support the novatel 'align' mode where you serial connect two receivers separated by a short baseline and get really accurate absolute headings; I'm planning on trying that that but haven't set it up yet. Looks like uber (last position was ubers offices in denver) had a fleet of these things. The couple I got run great, including the IMU, the antennas obviously spent a long time outside, but work fine. The cable they come with is weird, but I had no problem chopping one end off and figuring out the pinout (see bottom). The novatel OEM6 is well supported by rtklib and I was able to get post-processed positions very easily. Seller takes best offers a fair amount below the $649 asking price. Looks like they may have another 30 or so of them. May be useful for doing time transfer especially with the clock input. Just using it to get nice dual band observations to precisely survey an antenna location for a traditional GPSDO may improve GPSDO performance by a fair amount. Here is the signals and wire colors on the cables mine came with. YMMV, I'd suggest not blindly trusting that colors match on other units.These cables don't plumb out many of the signals from the module (in particular, they don't carrying COM2, which is why I haven't tried multi-receiver headings yet, since I'd need to figure out how to talk to it over USB if com1 is in use for that), I'm unsure if they're wired through the to external connector. 01 white power return (-) 02 brown 9-18 VDC power input (+) 03 yellowCOM1 RS232 TX 05 pink COM1 RS232 RX 09 green COM1 GND 10 black USB D+ 11 purple USB D- 12 yellow brnstp USB GND 15 redODO SIGA 16 blue ODO SIGA-inv 29 grey pinkstp PPS (high resistance? 80 ohm) 30 whitw grnstp Event1 31 red blustp signal ground ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Novatel Dual frequency GNSS receivers on ebay
There is an ebay listing for "Novatel GPS-702-GG with SPAN-CPT Single Enclosure GNSS/INS Receiver + Cable" with a fairly large number available. This is a Novatel OEM628 dual frequency receiver (supports GPS, Glonass, SBAS, apparently including L1C and L2C), plus a three fiber ring gyros (with bias performance that blows away any mems gyro I've ever used) and an 3-axis mems acceletrometer in an aluminum case, plus a decent dual frequency antenna. This is a generation-ish old kit. The industrial casing conspires to make it look somewhat less modern than it actually is. The receivers have external clock input (though not plumbed to the outside of the case) which appears to work though I didn't try much with it yet. Mine came with 2013-ish firmware but easily upgraded to current (2016) firmware. There is a windows based firmware update tool which talks to it over serial and is very straight forward (The firmware update OEM6631.zip can be found via google). You can communicate with them over serial in ascii, there is extensive firmware documentation that goes over every command https://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Manuals/om-2129.pdf some of which are specific to other modules. There is also a separate manual for the inertial navigation specific features (NovAtel SPAN-CPT Users manual.pdf) The external clock should allow you to hang it off a more stable oscillator which will improve the stability of the GNSS results, and _I presume_ improve the quality of the PPS output-- the firmware manual and operating manual are thin on details, and mostly just go into telling you how to adjust the kalman filter constants for different clock types. These also appear to support the novatel 'align' mode where you serial connect two receivers separated by a short baseline and get really accurate absolute headings; I'm planning on trying that that but haven't set it up yet. Looks like uber (last position was ubers offices in denver) had a fleet of these things. The couple I got run great, including the IMU, the antennas obviously spent a long time outside, but work fine. The cable they come with is weird, but I had no problem chopping one end off and figuring out the pinout (see bottom). The novatel OEM6 is well supported by rtklib and I was able to get post-processed positions very easily. Seller takes best offers a fair amount below the $649 asking price. Looks like they may have another 30 or so of them. May be useful for doing time transfer especially with the clock input. Just using it to get nice dual band observations to precisely survey an antenna location for a traditional GPSDO may improve GPSDO performance by a fair amount. Here is the signals and wire colors on the cables mine came with. YMMV, I'd suggest not blindly trusting that colors match on other units.These cables don't plumb out many of the signals from the module (in particular, they don't carrying COM2, which is why I haven't tried multi-receiver headings yet, since I'd need to figure out how to talk to it over USB if com1 is in use for that), I'm unsure if they're wired through the to external connector. 01 white power return (-) 02 brown 9-18 VDC power input (+) 03 yellowCOM1 RS232 TX 05 pink COM1 RS232 RX 09 green COM1 GND 10 black USB D+ 11 purple USB D- 12 yellow brnstp USB GND 15 redODO SIGA 16 blue ODO SIGA-inv 29 grey pinkstp PPS (high resistance? 80 ohm) 30 whitw grnstp Event1 31 red blustp signal ground ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
