Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
On Fri, Dec 09, 2016 at 08:25:52PM -0800, Chris Albertson wrote: > Lowest price I've found is BasicPCB.com They charge $3 per > square inch for 2 layers with mask and legend. OSHpark charges $5 per square inch for the standard 2 layer order (which include three boards, i.e. actually 3 square inch or $5/3 per square inch) including mask and silk screen on both sides, no limit to vias or general drill hits but unfortunately no electrical check. > Minimum is three boards of 1 square inch. So you actually > can place a $9 order with them. You can get a a lot lower with OSHpark there, I had orders below 2 USD and they ship for free, worldwide. > They are a USA based company. OSHpark too. > They accept standard Gerber files. Besides Gerbers, they also process KiCad and Eagle design files. > This is very impotent as a few others like PCBexpress make > you use their proprietary layout software and then you are > locked into that company for production runs too. Yes, nasty. > You need a workflow that uses Gerber files. Best, Herbert > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Lowest price I've found is BasicPCB.com They charge $3 per square inch for 2 layers with mask and legend. Minimum is three boards of 1 square inch. So you actually can place a $9 order with them. They are a USA based company. They accept standard Gerber files. This is very imported as a few others like PCBexpress make you use their proprietary layout software and then you are locked into that company for production runs too. You need a workflow that uses Gerber files One thing I'm doing is converting a small mill to CNC operation. I'm doing this to make metal parst but a secondary use is that I hope to be able to make at least simple PCBs for larger parts. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
There is a free tool (Robot Room Copper Connection) that will take EcpressPCB files and spit Gerber files. It is actually a full fledged PCB design software that seems to be significantly more capable than the ExpressPCB software even though I have not used it as such. Alternately you can send some money to ExpressPCB and they send you the Gerber, but only if you have actually bought the boards from them. So I usually get my first 3 prototypes from ExpressPCB and if I need to make small changes and feel comfortable buying production quantities without a second set of prototypes, I make the mods and get the Gerber from CC. On December 9, 2016 2:07:10 PM CST, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" wrote: >On 9 December 2016 at 19:58, BIll Ezell wrote: >> Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a >pcb, >> and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed >they >> now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that >I've >> always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my >latest >> boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just >a happy >> customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. > >You also lock yourself into one vendor. There's other free software, >like Kicad, where you can export files that many PCB manufacturers >use. So you avoid vendor lock-in. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in > >If the company goes belly up, where are you going to get any more >boards made, without starting from scratch? > >Anyway, it is a bit off topic. > >Dave >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Moto-X wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Lowest price I've found is BasicPCB.com They charge $3 per square inch for 2 layers with mask and legend. Minimum is three boards of 1 square inch. So you actually can place a $9 order with them. They are a USA based company. They accept standard Gerber files. This is very impotent as a few others like PCBexpress make you use their proprietary layout software and then you are locked into that company for production runs too. You need a workflow that uses Gerber files. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
http://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs Very happy with them. Dave > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf > Of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 12:07 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement; > Discussion of precise voltage measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts) > > On 9 December 2016 at 19:58, BIll Ezell wrote: > > Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that > required a pcb, > > and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I > just noticed they > > now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity > 3) that I've > > always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I > got my latest > > boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to > them, just a happy > > customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. > > You also lock yourself into one vendor. There's other free software, > like Kicad, where you can export files that many PCB manufacturers > use. So you avoid vendor lock-in. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in > > If the company goes belly up, where are you going to get any more > boards made, without starting from scratch? > > Anyway, it is a bit off topic. > > Dave > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Hi John: Yes. It is not at all economical to have ExpressPCB make boards the final size in production. BUT . . . if you have them make panels and cut them apart yourself it's very reasonable. I've used many methods for cutting the boards apart but have settled on a 12" metal shear that cuts them as easy as cutting butter. http://www.prc68.com/I/12InShear.shtml There is a limit on the number of holes so you can not use holes as a way to snapping panels into individual boards. Note the largest boards they make are 12 x 14". They are in Portland, USA. I think they are charging 34 cents/sqin (5-day) plus other charges on a per order and per board basis. For example: https://www.expresspcb.com/production-service/ -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html The lesser of evils is still evil. Original Message That points out a key difference in the PCB house pricing models: ExpressPCB and the Advanced Circuits $33 prototype are flat fee up to a size limit (for Advanced Circuits 4 x 6 inches) while others go by the square inch -- OSH Park is $5/in2 for three copies of two layer, and $10/in2 for three of four layer. So for small boards, OSH Park is great but for larger boards, the price difference reduces (a 4 x 6 board ends up being just about the same price as Advanced Circuits). And if you can stand the slower turnaround, the Chinese board houses can't be beat for any size. John On 12/9/2016 3:18 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: I built my first set of boards with ExpressPCB, but they get expensive quickly if you want to make something that's not in their special form factor. I use KICAD and OshPark.com to make my boards (there are other board makers). I just ordered some boards that are .7" x .63" that cost $8.40 for 12. You buy in multiples of 3, so that was actually $2.10 for a set of 3 times 4 sets. Using surface mount, I was able to put an SOIC-14, an SOIC-16, an SOT23-5, three 0805 caps, a 3 pin header, and a 5 pad connector on the board. Something like that would be wastefully expensive on ExpressPCB. Bob From: BIll Ezell To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts) Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Dr. Dave, That is NOT true ! I use http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml to handle the my ExpressPCB actions. They are over in Asia somewhere and have been quite happy with their work. They are a bit cheaper than ExpressPCB themselves. They also will do other PCB programs and Gerber's as well. BillWB6BNQ Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 9 December 2016 at 19:58, BIll Ezell wrote: Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. You also lock yourself into one vendor. There's other free software, like Kicad, where you can export files that many PCB manufacturers use. So you avoid vendor lock-in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in If the company goes belly up, where are you going to get any more boards made, without starting from scratch? Anyway, it is a bit off topic. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Hi If you are one of those people who feel “cramped” in anything less than 6 layers, the Chinese are about the only way to go. There are a few houses over there that will do 6 and 8 layer boards at a “basement affordable” sort of price. Given the way things change with some of these outfits figuring out who is doing this or that (and doing it right) can be a major chore. In some cases the right answer last month is not the right answer this month ….. Bob > On Dec 9, 2016, at 3:34 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > That points out a key difference in the PCB house pricing models: ExpressPCB > and the Advanced Circuits $33 prototype are flat fee up to a size limit (for > Advanced Circuits 4 x 6 inches) while others go by the square inch -- OSH > Park is $5/in2 for three copies of two layer, and $10/in2 for three of four > layer. > > So for small boards, OSH Park is great but for larger boards, the price > difference reduces (a 4 x 6 board ends up being just about the same price as > Advanced Circuits). And if you can stand the slower turnaround, the Chinese > board houses can't be beat for any size. > > John > > On 12/9/2016 3:18 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: >> I built my first set of boards with ExpressPCB, but they get expensive >> quickly if you want to make something that's not in their special form >> factor. I use KICAD and OshPark.com to make my boards (there are other >> board makers). I just ordered some boards that are .7" x .63" that cost >> $8.40 for 12. You buy in multiples of 3, so that was actually $2.10 for a >> set of 3 times 4 sets. Using surface mount, I was able to put an SOIC-14, >> an SOIC-16, an SOT23-5, three 0805 caps, a 3 pin header, and a 5 pad >> connector on the board. Something like that would be wastefully expensive >> on ExpressPCB. >> >> Bob >> >> >> From: BIll Ezell >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:58 PM >> Subject: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts) >> >> Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a >> pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just >> noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity >> 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I >> got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to >> them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for >> $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the >> top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. >> (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there >> also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up >> being ~$23/board. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
That points out a key difference in the PCB house pricing models: ExpressPCB and the Advanced Circuits $33 prototype are flat fee up to a size limit (for Advanced Circuits 4 x 6 inches) while others go by the square inch -- OSH Park is $5/in2 for three copies of two layer, and $10/in2 for three of four layer. So for small boards, OSH Park is great but for larger boards, the price difference reduces (a 4 x 6 board ends up being just about the same price as Advanced Circuits). And if you can stand the slower turnaround, the Chinese board houses can't be beat for any size. John On 12/9/2016 3:18 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: I built my first set of boards with ExpressPCB, but they get expensive quickly if you want to make something that's not in their special form factor. I use KICAD and OshPark.com to make my boards (there are other board makers). I just ordered some boards that are .7" x .63" that cost $8.40 for 12. You buy in multiples of 3, so that was actually $2.10 for a set of 3 times 4 sets. Using surface mount, I was able to put an SOIC-14, an SOIC-16, an SOT23-5, three 0805 caps, a 3 pin header, and a 5 pad connector on the board. Something like that would be wastefully expensive on ExpressPCB. Bob From: BIll Ezell To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts) Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
I built my first set of boards with ExpressPCB, but they get expensive quickly if you want to make something that's not in their special form factor. I use KICAD and OshPark.com to make my boards (there are other board makers). I just ordered some boards that are .7" x .63" that cost $8.40 for 12. You buy in multiples of 3, so that was actually $2.10 for a set of 3 times 4 sets. Using surface mount, I was able to put an SOIC-14, an SOIC-16, an SOT23-5, three 0805 caps, a 3 pin header, and a 5 pad connector on the board. Something like that would be wastefully expensive on ExpressPCB. Bob From: BIll Ezell To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts) Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. -- Bill Ezell -- The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck will be the day they make vacuum cleaners. Or maybe Windows 10. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Hi Bill: It's their Mini Board Pro service and you get 3 each 2-layer boards each 3.8 x 2.5" with solder mask (great for SMT) and silk screen top side labels for $61. https://www.expresspcb.com/miniboard-pro/ If you get this service some caution is needed regarding the solder mask since it's possible to have the mask where you were expecting to see metal. Also note they have free schematic software that can be used to check the nodes on the board layout. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html The lesser of evils is still evil. Original Message Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Hi The bottom line has always been that the outfits in China are the cheaper source for boards. That said, right now, Advanced Circuits will sell you a single piece of a double sided board for $33. It’s a “full feature” board with solder mask, silk screen, and a 3 day fab time. I don’t use their free software, but have always been quite happy with their boards. Bob > On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:58 PM, BIll Ezell wrote: > > Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, > and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now > provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always > ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that > way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. > You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to > put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that > was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's > copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real > boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. > > -- > Bill Ezell > -- > The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck > will be the day they make vacuum cleaners. > Or maybe Windows 10. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
On 9 December 2016 at 19:58, BIll Ezell wrote: > Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, > and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they > now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've > always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest > boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy > customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. You also lock yourself into one vendor. There's other free software, like Kicad, where you can export files that many PCB manufacturers use. So you avoid vendor lock-in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in If the company goes belly up, where are you going to get any more boards made, without starting from scratch? Anyway, it is a bit off topic. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: ExpressPCB (cross-post from volts-nuts)
Sorry if I'm behind the times, just did a new project that required a pcb, and ExpressPCB is my go-to vendor for one-off boards. I just noticed they now provide the low-cost boards (fixed size, 3x5, quantity 3) that I've always ordered with silk screen and solder mask for $71. I got my latest boards that way and they're beautiful. No relationship to them, just a happy customer. You can still get the barebones boards for $51. The hack I used to use was to put the component id and such on the top copper layer as tiny text, but that was a bit of a pain for layout. (Oops, can't put that label there, it's copper and there's a trace there also) Really nice to be able to get real boards, even if it does end up being ~$23/board. -- Bill Ezell -- The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck will be the day they make vacuum cleaners. Or maybe Windows 10. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
