Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

All,

So, went digging into my crawlspace just now, and found my RG6 that I thought 
was Belden. It’s actually Coleman 92003, which isn’t quad shield, but has a 
spec sheet that actually shows attenuation at 1500Mhz!

https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Coleman%20Cable/92003.pdf

Interesting that there seems to be a “hump” between 1200 and 1500Mhz, as the 
attenuation jumps quite a bit, whereas it’s relatively flat between 700 and 
1200Mhz. Then another bump above 2200Mhz, which is what this cable is rated to.

It’s sun resistant, which is good.

Anyone see any reason to not use this, and instead use some generic Quad 
Shield? It is gas injected, which supposedly improves it’s susceptibility to 
crushing, or other deformation of the insulator… but I can’t say I’ve seen this 
actually shown anywhere (I guess because it’s HDPE rather than LDPE insulator).

Thanks again everyone for all the input! It’s been pretty great to read this 
thread… even if it’s a bit “academic”. =P

-Ryan Stasel

On Apr 23, 2016, at 7:26 AM, billriches 
mailto:bill.ric...@verizon.net>> wrote:

RG6 for CCTV has copper shield and solid conductor.
RG6 for CATV has aluminum shield and solid conductor.
73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and 
T-bolt)

Paul,

LOL! So, along those lines… one other question, since I can’t find my belden, 
I’ll be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for CCTV vs CATV? 
My understanding is the CCTV version always has a solid copper center conductor 
(which in my mind would mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the 
antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go with standard RG6?

Thanks!

-Ryan Stasel

On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04 , paul swed 
mailto:paulsw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Ryan a slight heads up.
Time Nuts is not about time accuracy as many people assume.
Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we know we have.
We just measure that time accurately.
I do not use anti seize. Nothing against it just one more glob of
stuff to deal with.
If you use the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
mailto:rsta...@uoregon.edu>> wrote:

All,

Really awesome answers, thanks!

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with
something like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N
interface. The actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a
couple layers of the heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to
be internal to the mast anyway, so direct weather contact should be
minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little
to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note on that 
regard.

Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and
also the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see
what my seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6.
It’s certainly easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the
stuff that Home despot (har har) sells (Southwire (
http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.

Thanks again!

-Ryan Stasel

On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed 
mailto:paulsw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the
connections
held
up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
Layer of rubber tape
scotch kote
Layer of plastic tape
scotch kote
If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
years. I
want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the
life of connectors and coax.
The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
But as I say everyone has their own approach.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
mailto:rsta...@uoregon.edu>>
wrote:

Bob/Paul,

Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but
otherwise
yeah,
RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors
for it, including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for
LMR300, but they work).

Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
"weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
anyone
bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
seizing
it up.

Thanks!

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp mailto:kb...@n1k.org>> wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[billriches]

RG6 for CCTV has copper shield and solid conductor.
RG6 for CATV has aluminum shield and solid conductor.
 73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and 
T-bolt)

Paul, 

LOL! So, along those lines… one other question, since I can’t find my belden, 
I’ll be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for CCTV vs CATV? 
My understanding is the CCTV version always has a solid copper center conductor 
(which in my mind would mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the 
antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go with standard RG6?

Thanks! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Ryan a slight heads up.
> Time Nuts is not about time accuracy as many people assume.
> Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we know we have.
> We just measure that time accurately.
> I do not use anti seize. Nothing against it just one more glob of 
> stuff to deal with.
> If you use the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>> 
>> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with 
>> something like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N 
>> interface. The actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a 
>> couple layers of the heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to 
>> be internal to the mast anyway, so direct weather contact should be 
>> minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little 
>> to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note on that 
>> regard.
>> 
>> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and 
>> also the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see 
>> what my seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. 
>> It’s certainly easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the 
>> stuff that Home despot (har har) sells (Southwire ( 
>> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
>> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> 
>> -Ryan Stasel
>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
>>> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the 
>>> connections
>> held
>>> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
>>> Layer of rubber tape
>>> scotch kote
>>> Layer of plastic tape
>>> scotch kote
>>> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
>> years. I
>>> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the 
>>> life of connectors and coax.
>>> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
>>> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Bob/Paul,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
>>>> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but 
>>>> otherwise
>> yeah,
>>>> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors 
>>>> for it, including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for 
>>>> LMR300, but they work).
>>>> 
>>>> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can 
>>>> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
>> anyone
>>>> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
>> seizing
>>>> it up.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Ryan Stasel
>>>> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
>>>> University of Oregon
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the 
>>>>> published
>>>> specs. The advantage o

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you are going to mount an antenna outdoors on a > 100’ cable run … don’t use 
an automotive mag mount
antenna. Even cheap cable will cost you more than the eBay price of a “real” 
timing antenna. The antenna it’s 
self may not be very fancy. The amp and filter in the antenna likely are much 
better than the car antenna. The 
housing and connector are *way* beyond the mag mount in terns of surviving in 
the rain / snow / hail / sleet / sunlight/
wind / birds / and so on. There also is the possibility that the timing antenna 
is better protected against lightning.

On the plus side, it’s easier to get an auto antenna that will run on +3.3V 
(and blow out at +5). It’s also easier to 
find one that will cover Glonass. They are smaller and less obtrusive if the 
neighbors are a big concern. 

Lots of issues !

Bob


> On Apr 22, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> There's one thing I forgot to mention: the 5 yards of RG-174 that an active 
> puck antenna usually has connected.  That's probably a loss of more than 15DB 
> right off the bat.  But, if you're using a puck, you're probably using a 
> short cable to your receiver, so you shouldn't cut the RG-174, otherwise you 
> may overload the receiver's  front-end.
> 
> Bob
> --------
> On Fri, 4/22/16, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna(Symmetricom
> 58532A  and T-bolt)
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> 
> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 6:17 PM
> 
> Hi
> 
> Ok, well, let’s over think this a bit
> more:
> 
> The antenna has 38 db
> gain. It *might* have a noise figure of 0.7 db. A typical
> modern GPS has < 2db noise figure. Anything over 6 db of
> net
> gain is “good enough”. On that
> basis, a line loss of 32 db would be OK. Your 100 M of quad
> shield at 21 db still gives you enough for three levels of
> passive
> splitter (8 outputs). Yes, it’s
> not going to work with an old Oncore. It will work with the
> new stuff at that level of splitting. 
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On
> Apr 22, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
>> 
>> Bob, 
>> 
>> Fair enough. I’ll
> just stop worrying about it. =) 
>> 
>> I believe that number sounds like per 100
> meter, not per 100 foot. Once I have the actual coax, as
> someone suggested, I’ll just hook some ends up, and check
> it. =)
>> 
>> Sadly, I
> don’t have an SA, so checking the attenuation might be
> problematic. Though, could I not just use a function gen
> (signal gen), and a scope? Trying to think… I don’t have
> anything that’ll do 1.5Ghz though (or even close). 
>> 
>> Meh, overthinking…
> what Paul said. =) I’m sure it’ll be fine. Will the
> T-bolt actually complain about poor signal, or just not work
> reliably? And lastly, I guess, there’s a setting on the
> T-bolt to compensate for cable length. I assume that’s
> compensation for antenna cable length? I know I can figure
> that out with an SG and Scope, assuming the propagation
> delay is what the spec sheet claims to be (most RG6 seems to
> be right around 80%) (the home depot stuff seems to be
> 79%).
>> 
>> -Ryan
> Stasel
>> 
>>> On Apr
> 22, 2016, at 14:38 , Bob Stewart 
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
> Ryan,
>>> 
>>> For
> the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the
> consensus view to be to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite
> cable.  A few of the posts in this thread have made me
> wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too
> much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about
> 300 ft of CerroWire RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the
> garage.  I looked at the datasheet, and it's
> confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list
> 21.45DB per hundred with the superscript "1". 
> However there is nothing on the page noting whether that
> "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters. 
> Looking at the competition it would appear that that's
> per meter.  Unfortunately, I don't have the right
> connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft
> runs from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e.
> problematic) attenuation of the signal.  Maybe someone else
> with a spool of RG-6 in the garage could give use some real
> world attenuation figures at L1?
>>> 
> 
>>> But, rather than over-engineering
> or over-angsting this issue, it's probably OK to just
> pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real
> difference unless you have a run in the many hundreds of
> feet.
>>

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

> RG-6 in the garage could give use some real world attenuation figures at L1?
>>> 
>>> But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's 
>>> probably OK to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real 
>>> difference unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.
>>> 
>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A  
>>> and T-bolt)
>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>>> 
>>> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
>>> 
>>> Paul, 
>>> 
>>> LOL! So, along those lines…
>>> one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
>>> be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
>>> CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
>>> has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
>>> mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the
>>> antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go
>>> with standard RG6?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Ryan Stasel
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04
>>> , paul swed 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ryan a
>>> slight heads up.
>>>> Time Nuts is not about
>>> time accuracy as many people assume.
>>>> 
>>> Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we
>>> know we have.
>>>> We just measure that time
>>> accurately.
>>>> I do not use anti seize.
>>> Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
>>>> deal with.
>>>> If you use
>>> the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
>>>> Paul
>>>> WB8TSL
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016
>>> at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the sealing question, it was more
>>> of a “should I bother with something
>>>>> like anti-seize” or the like on the
>>> actual thread-thread N interface. The
>>>>> actual connector crimp, was planning
>>> on just using a couple layers of the
>>>>> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all
>>> going to be internal to the mast
>>>>> 
>>> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s
>>> also on the side
>>>>> of my chimney,
>>> that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
>>>>> should be minimal. But good note on
>>> that regard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pete, thank you very much for the info
>>> wrt the antenna and amp, and also
>>>>> 
>>> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going
>>> to see what my
>>>>> seller wants for
>>> LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s
>>> certainly
>>>>> easier to handle. I did
>>> find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
>>>>> (har har) sells (Southwire (
>>>>> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
>>>>> I swear I have a box of Belden
>>> somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>> again!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> -Ryan Stasel
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul
>>> swed 
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With respect to sealing. Everyone
>>> has a method.
>>>>>> I use what I
>>> learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
>>>>> held
>>>>>> up
>>> in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
>>>>>> Layer of rubber tape
>>>>>> scotch kote
>>>>>> Layer of plastic tape
>>>>>> scotch kote
>>>>>> If done well the connector
>>> releases just fine even after 5 or more
>>>>> years. I
>>>>>> 
>>> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of
>>> shortening the life of
>>>>>> 
>>> connector

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Bob,

There's one thing I forgot to mention: the 5 yards of RG-174 that an active 
puck antenna usually has connected.  That's probably a loss of more than 15DB 
right off the bat.  But, if you're using a puck, you're probably using a short 
cable to your receiver, so you shouldn't cut the RG-174, otherwise you may 
overload the receiver's  front-end.

Bob

On Fri, 4/22/16, Bob Camp  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom58532A  
and T-bolt)
 To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
 Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 6:17 PM
 
 Hi
 
 Ok, well, let’s over think this a bit
 more:
 
 The antenna has 38 db
 gain. It *might* have a noise figure of 0.7 db. A typical
 modern GPS has < 2db noise figure. Anything over 6 db of
 net
 gain is “good enough”. On that
 basis, a line loss of 32 db would be OK. Your 100 M of quad
 shield at 21 db still gives you enough for three levels of
 passive
 splitter (8 outputs). Yes, it’s
 not going to work with an old Oncore. It will work with the
 new stuff at that level of splitting. 
 
 Bob
 
 > On
 Apr 22, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Ryan Stasel 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Bob, 
 > 
 > Fair enough. I’ll
 just stop worrying about it. =) 
 > 
 > I believe that number sounds like per 100
 meter, not per 100 foot. Once I have the actual coax, as
 someone suggested, I’ll just hook some ends up, and check
 it. =)
 > 
 > Sadly, I
 don’t have an SA, so checking the attenuation might be
 problematic. Though, could I not just use a function gen
 (signal gen), and a scope? Trying to think… I don’t have
 anything that’ll do 1.5Ghz though (or even close). 
 > 
 > Meh, overthinking…
 what Paul said. =) I’m sure it’ll be fine. Will the
 T-bolt actually complain about poor signal, or just not work
 reliably? And lastly, I guess, there’s a setting on the
 T-bolt to compensate for cable length. I assume that’s
 compensation for antenna cable length? I know I can figure
 that out with an SG and Scope, assuming the propagation
 delay is what the spec sheet claims to be (most RG6 seems to
 be right around 80%) (the home depot stuff seems to be
 79%).
 > 
 > -Ryan
 Stasel
 > 
 >> On Apr
 22, 2016, at 14:38 , Bob Stewart 
 wrote:
 >> 
 >> Hi
 Ryan,
 >> 
 >> For
 the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the
 consensus view to be to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite
 cable.  A few of the posts in this thread have made me
 wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too
 much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about
 300 ft of CerroWire RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the
 garage.  I looked at the datasheet, and it's
 confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list
 21.45DB per hundred with the superscript "1". 
 However there is nothing on the page noting whether that
 "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters. 
 Looking at the competition it would appear that that's
 per meter.  Unfortunately, I don't have the right
 connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft
 runs from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e.
 problematic) attenuation of the signal.  Maybe someone else
 with a spool of RG-6 in the garage could give use some real
 world attenuation figures at L1?
 >>
 
 >> But, rather than over-engineering
 or over-angsting this issue, it's probably OK to just
 pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real
 difference unless you have a run in the many hundreds of
 feet.
 >> 
 >> Bob
 - AE6RV
 >> 
 >>
 
 >> On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel 
 wrote:
 >> 
 >>
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
 (Symmetricom 58532A    and T-bolt)
 >> To: "Discussion of precise time
 and frequency measurement" 
 >> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09
 PM
 >> 
 >> Paul,
 
 >> 
 >> LOL! So,
 along those lines…
 >> one other
 question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
 >> be buying some coax. Anyone have any
 opinions about RG6 for
 >> CCTV vs
 CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
 >> has a solid copper center conductor
 (which in my mind would
 >> mean less
 voltage loss for the DC power going to the
 >> antenna), or I’m still overthinking
 it and should just go
 >> with standard
 RG6?
 >> 
 >>
 Thanks!
 >> 
 >>
 
 >> -Ryan Stasel
 >> 
 >>> On Apr
 21, 2016, at 13:04
 >> , paul swed
 
 >> wrote:
 >>>
 
 >>> Ryan a
 >> slight heads up.
 >>> Time Nuts is not about
 >> time accuracy as many people
 assume.
 >>> 
 >> Its actually about the time we all
 waste looking for what we
 &

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

Lady Heather does say what the S/N for each satellite is. I use a lot of PA6H 
modules (the AdaFruit ones) and GPSMon also conveniently gives the S/N too. 
It’s in the GPGSV sentences.

I’m kinda blessed in that my antenna location is just outside the wall from my 
workbench, and that position sees the whole sky down to easily 20 degrees 
azimuth. I just swapped out a 4 port amplified splitter for an 8 port one. I 
get an S/N of >50 for 5 satellites and >40 for another 5 much of the time and 
quite frequently have 10 satellites being used and 11 in the list with non-zero 
S/N.

It’s a Gilsson marine antenna, and the coax is 30 feet of whatever it came 
with. I took a look just now and it’s not labeled. It’s thinner than a pencil 
and relatively inflexible. Their website says it’s RG58A/U, which seems like an 
odd choice to me, but they claim 30 dB of gain in the antenna, so if it has 10 
dB of loss, there’s still 20 dB of gain before the splitter.

The only oddity of my antenna system is that the Thunderbolt absolutely 
*insists* on being on the power-pass port. If it’s on one of the DC-blocking 
ports it gets no reception at all, despite the fact that all of the rest of the 
systems are all perfectly happy. I kinda wanted to have my NTP server’s module 
power it all because it’s the most permanent gizmo in the whole lab, but the 
tBolt won’t have that. It was the same with my previous 4 port amplified 
splitter too. I don’t quite know what to make of it, but the solution is simple 
so long as I never get a second receiver/module that also hates the DC-block 
ports.



> On Apr 22, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
> Bob, 
> 
> Fair enough. I’ll just stop worrying about it. =) 
> 
> I believe that number sounds like per 100 meter, not per 100 foot. Once I 
> have the actual coax, as someone suggested, I’ll just hook some ends up, and 
> check it. =)
> 
> Sadly, I don’t have an SA, so checking the attenuation might be problematic. 
> Though, could I not just use a function gen (signal gen), and a scope? Trying 
> to think… I don’t have anything that’ll do 1.5Ghz though (or even close). 
> 
> Meh, overthinking… what Paul said. =) I’m sure it’ll be fine. Will the T-bolt 
> actually complain about poor signal, or just not work reliably? And lastly, I 
> guess, there’s a setting on the T-bolt to compensate for cable length. I 
> assume that’s compensation for antenna cable length? I know I can figure that 
> out with an SG and Scope, assuming the propagation delay is what the spec 
> sheet claims to be (most RG6 seems to be right around 80%) (the home depot 
> stuff seems to be 79%).
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 14:38 , Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ryan,
>> 
>> For the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the consensus view to 
>> be to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite cable.  A few of the posts in this 
>> thread have made me wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too 
>> much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about 300 ft of CerroWire 
>> RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the garage.  I looked at the datasheet, 
>> and it's confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list 21.45DB per 
>> hundred with the superscript "1".  However there is nothing on the page 
>> noting whether that "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters.  Looking at 
>> the competition it would appear that that's per meter.  Unfortunately, I 
>> don't have the right connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft 
>> runs from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e. problematic) 
>> attenuation of the signal.  Maybe someone else with a spool of RG-6 in the 
>> garage could give use some real world attenuation figures at L1?
>> 
>> But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's probably 
>> OK to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real difference 
>> unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.
>> 
>> Bob - AE6RV
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A   
>> and T-bolt)
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>> 
>> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
>> 
>> Paul, 
>> 
>> LOL! So, along those lines…
>> one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
>> be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
>> CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
>> has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
>> mean less voltage loss 

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Graham]

I think all RG6 cable has a solid core otherwise the F type connector 
wouldn't work.


I almost universally use an RG6 type cable for all my receive only systems.

In fact, I came across several hundred feet of a Belden product labled 
1694A HD-SDI Precision Video Cable 4.5GHz. This has a solid copper 
center, foil shield and on top of that a copper braid shield. This 
Belden cable has, at least in the comparison of Belden vs other's data 
sheets, a wee bit better performance.


So far has been working very for me whenever I use it. I have one 
symetricom "puck" antenna mounted just outside on the deck I use for 
testing using about 50 feet of this cable and works well.


And just to show how not overly critical cable is, my main GPS antenna 
mounted up on the roof just above the peak is a "bullet" type (MaxRad 
TMG-26N - 26db gain) which feeds my lab through 65 feet of RG-8X cable 
which what I had lying around at the time with the good intention of 
replacing with "better" cable later in the summer. I have since moved my 
lab around and have extended that 65 feet of RG-8X with an additional 25 
feet of RG-58 to a Symetricom 58535A one to two splitter (which has some 
gain as well). The connection between the connection between the RG-8X 
and RG-58 is made with a crimp on male BNC on one side and a crimp on 
female on the other to eliminate using two male and one barrel connector.


Good intentions being as they may, the RG-8X and RG-58 extension has 
worked so well that I have never bothered changing it out and that is 
now going on six years. When it needs changing out I will replace with 
quality RG6.


Like many things in life there is a sense of accomplishment and pleasure 
in tweaking something out to it's utmost; likewise there is also a sense 
of accomplishment and pleasure is making do with whats available and 
still getting to where you want to get. It all depends on which cup you 
wish to drink from.



cheers, Graham ve3gtc



On 2016-04-22 21:38, Bob Stewart wrote:

Hi Ryan,

For the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the consensus view to be to get a good 
quality RG-6QS satellite cable.  A few of the posts in this thread have made me wonder if the 
consensus is changing, or if it's just too much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about 
300 ft of CerroWire RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the garage.  I looked at the datasheet, and 
it's confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list 21.45DB per hundred with the superscript 
"1".  However there is nothing on the page noting whether that "1" means per 
100 feet or per 100 meters.  Looking at the competition it would appear that that's per meter.  
Unfortunately, I don't have the right connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft runs 
from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e. problematic) attenuation of the signal.  Maybe 
someone else with a spool of RG-6 in the garage could give use some real world attenuation figures 
at L1?

But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's probably OK 
to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real difference 
unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.

Bob - AE6RV

----------------------------
On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A
and T-bolt)
  To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 

  Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
  
  Paul,
  
  LOL! So, along those lines…

  one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
  be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
  CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
  has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
  mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the
  antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go
  with standard RG6?
  
  Thanks!
  
  
  -Ryan Stasel
  
  > On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04

  , paul swed 
  wrote:
  >
  > Ryan a
  slight heads up.
  > Time Nuts is not about
  time accuracy as many people assume.
  >
  Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we
  know we have.
  > We just measure that time
  accurately.
  > I do not use anti seize.
  Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
  > deal with.
  > If you use
  the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
  > Paul
  > WB8TSL
  >
  > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016
  at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
  wrote:
  >
  >>
  All,
  >>
  >>
  Really awesome answers, thanks!
  >>
  >> For the sealing question, it was more
  of a “should I bother with something
  >> like anti-seize” or the like on the
  actual thread-thread N interface. The
  >> actual connector crimp, was planning
  on just using a couple layers of

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Ok, well, let’s over think this a bit more:

The antenna has 38 db gain. It *might* have a noise figure of 0.7 db. A typical 
modern GPS has < 2db noise figure. Anything over 6 db of net
gain is “good enough”. On that basis, a line loss of 32 db would be OK. Your 
100 M of quad shield at 21 db still gives you enough for three levels of passive
splitter (8 outputs). Yes, it’s not going to work with an old Oncore. It will 
work with the new stuff at that level of splitting. 

Bob

> On Apr 22, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
> Bob, 
> 
> Fair enough. I’ll just stop worrying about it. =) 
> 
> I believe that number sounds like per 100 meter, not per 100 foot. Once I 
> have the actual coax, as someone suggested, I’ll just hook some ends up, and 
> check it. =)
> 
> Sadly, I don’t have an SA, so checking the attenuation might be problematic. 
> Though, could I not just use a function gen (signal gen), and a scope? Trying 
> to think… I don’t have anything that’ll do 1.5Ghz though (or even close). 
> 
> Meh, overthinking… what Paul said. =) I’m sure it’ll be fine. Will the T-bolt 
> actually complain about poor signal, or just not work reliably? And lastly, I 
> guess, there’s a setting on the T-bolt to compensate for cable length. I 
> assume that’s compensation for antenna cable length? I know I can figure that 
> out with an SG and Scope, assuming the propagation delay is what the spec 
> sheet claims to be (most RG6 seems to be right around 80%) (the home depot 
> stuff seems to be 79%).
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 14:38 , Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ryan,
>> 
>> For the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the consensus view to 
>> be to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite cable.  A few of the posts in this 
>> thread have made me wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too 
>> much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about 300 ft of CerroWire 
>> RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the garage.  I looked at the datasheet, 
>> and it's confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list 21.45DB per 
>> hundred with the superscript "1".  However there is nothing on the page 
>> noting whether that "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters.  Looking at 
>> the competition it would appear that that's per meter.  Unfortunately, I 
>> don't have the right connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft 
>> runs from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e. problematic) 
>> attenuation of the signal.  Maybe someone else with a spool of RG-6 in the 
>> garage could give use some real world attenuation figures at L1?
>> 
>> But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's probably 
>> OK to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real difference 
>> unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.
>> 
>> Bob - AE6RV
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A   
>> and T-bolt)
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>> 
>> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
>> 
>> Paul, 
>> 
>> LOL! So, along those lines…
>> one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
>> be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
>> CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
>> has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
>> mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the
>> antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go
>> with standard RG6?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> -Ryan Stasel
>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04
>> , paul swed 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ryan a
>> slight heads up.
>>> Time Nuts is not about
>> time accuracy as many people assume.
>>> 
>> Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we
>> know we have.
>>> We just measure that time
>> accurately.
>>> I do not use anti seize.
>> Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
>>> deal with.
>>> If you use
>> the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016
>> at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>> All,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> For the sealing que

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

Bob, 

Fair enough. I’ll just stop worrying about it. =) 

I believe that number sounds like per 100 meter, not per 100 foot. Once I have 
the actual coax, as someone suggested, I’ll just hook some ends up, and check 
it. =)

Sadly, I don’t have an SA, so checking the attenuation might be problematic. 
Though, could I not just use a function gen (signal gen), and a scope? Trying 
to think… I don’t have anything that’ll do 1.5Ghz though (or even close). 

Meh, overthinking… what Paul said. =) I’m sure it’ll be fine. Will the T-bolt 
actually complain about poor signal, or just not work reliably? And lastly, I 
guess, there’s a setting on the T-bolt to compensate for cable length. I assume 
that’s compensation for antenna cable length? I know I can figure that out with 
an SG and Scope, assuming the propagation delay is what the spec sheet claims 
to be (most RG6 seems to be right around 80%) (the home depot stuff seems to be 
79%).

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 22, 2016, at 14:38 , Bob Stewart  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ryan,
> 
> For the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the consensus view to 
> be to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite cable.  A few of the posts in this 
> thread have made me wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too 
> much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about 300 ft of CerroWire 
> RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the garage.  I looked at the datasheet, 
> and it's confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list 21.45DB per 
> hundred with the superscript "1".  However there is nothing on the page 
> noting whether that "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters.  Looking at the 
> competition it would appear that that's per meter.  Unfortunately, I don't 
> have the right connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft runs 
> from this spool don't show any noticeable (i.e. problematic) attenuation of 
> the signal.  Maybe someone else with a spool of RG-6 in the garage could give 
> use some real world attenuation figures at L1?
> 
> But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's probably 
> OK to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real difference 
> unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.
> 
> Bob - AE6RV
> 
> --------------------
> On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A
> and T-bolt)
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> 
> Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
> 
> Paul, 
> 
> LOL! So, along those lines…
> one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
> be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
> CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
> has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
> mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the
> antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go
> with standard RG6?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04
> , paul swed 
> wrote:
>> 
>> Ryan a
> slight heads up.
>> Time Nuts is not about
> time accuracy as many people assume.
>> 
> Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we
> know we have.
>> We just measure that time
> accurately.
>> I do not use anti seize.
> Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
>> deal with.
>> If you use
> the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016
> at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
> All,
>>> 
>>> 
> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>>> 
>>> For the sealing question, it was more
> of a “should I bother with something
>>> like anti-seize” or the like on the
> actual thread-thread N interface. The
>>> actual connector crimp, was planning
> on just using a couple layers of the
>>> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all
> going to be internal to the mast
>>> 
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s
> also on the side
>>> of my chimney,
> that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
>>> should be minimal. But good note on
> that regard.
>>> 
>>> Pete, thank you very much for the info
> wrt the antenna and amp, and also
>>> 
> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going
> to see what my
>>> seller wants for
> LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s
> certainly
>>> easier to handle. I did
> find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
>>

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Ryan,

For the few years I've been on time-nuts, I understood the consensus view to be 
to get a good quality RG-6QS satellite cable.  A few of the posts in this 
thread have made me wonder if the consensus is changing, or if it's just too 
much trouble to stand up to the crowd.  I've got about 300 ft of CerroWire 
RG-6QS leftover from Home Depot in the garage.  I looked at the datasheet, and 
it's confusing.  For the attenuation at 1000MHz, they list 21.45DB per hundred 
with the superscript "1".  However there is nothing on the page noting whether 
that "1" means per 100 feet or per 100 meters.  Looking at the competition it 
would appear that that's per meter.  Unfortunately, I don't have the right 
connectors to hook it up to my SA to see.  OTOH, 100 ft runs from this spool 
don't show any noticeable (i.e. problematic) attenuation of the signal.  Maybe 
someone else with a spool of RG-6 in the garage could give use some real world 
attenuation figures at L1?

But, rather than over-engineering or over-angsting this issue, it's probably OK 
to just pick one and use it.  It's not likely to make any real difference 
unless you have a run in the many hundreds of feet.

Bob - AE6RV

----
On Fri, 4/22/16, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A 
and T-bolt)
 To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
 Date: Friday, April 22, 2016, 4:09 PM
 
 Paul, 
 
 LOL! So, along those lines…
 one other question, since I can’t find my belden, I’ll
 be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for
 CCTV vs CATV? My understanding is the CCTV version always
 has a solid copper center conductor (which in my mind would
 mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the
 antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go
 with standard RG6?
 
 Thanks!
 
 
 -Ryan Stasel
 
 > On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04
 , paul swed 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Ryan a
 slight heads up.
 > Time Nuts is not about
 time accuracy as many people assume.
 >
 Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we
 know we have.
 > We just measure that time
 accurately.
 > I do not use anti seize.
 Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
 > deal with.
 > If you use
 the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
 > Paul
 > WB8TSL
 > 
 > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016
 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel 
 wrote:
 > 
 >>
 All,
 >> 
 >>
 Really awesome answers, thanks!
 >> 
 >> For the sealing question, it was more
 of a “should I bother with something
 >> like anti-seize” or the like on the
 actual thread-thread N interface. The
 >> actual connector crimp, was planning
 on just using a couple layers of the
 >> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all
 going to be internal to the mast
 >>
 anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s
 also on the side
 >> of my chimney,
 that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
 >> should be minimal. But good note on
 that regard.
 >> 
 >> Pete, thank you very much for the info
 wrt the antenna and amp, and also
 >>
 the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going
 to see what my
 >> seller wants for
 LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s
 certainly
 >> easier to handle. I did
 find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
 >> (har har) sells (Southwire (
 >> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
 >> I swear I have a box of Belden
 somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
 >> 
 >> Thanks
 again!
 >> 
 >>
 -Ryan Stasel
 >> 
 >>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul
 swed 
 wrote:
 >>> 
 >>> With respect to sealing. Everyone
 has a method.
 >>> I use what I
 learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
 >> held
 >>> up
 in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
 >>> Layer of rubber tape
 >>> scotch kote
 >>> Layer of plastic tape
 >>> scotch kote
 >>> If done well the connector
 releases just fine even after 5 or more
 >> years. I
 >>>
 want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of
 shortening the life of
 >>>
 connectors and coax.
 >>> The
 approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over
 time...
 >>> But as I say everyone
 has their own approach.
 >>>
 Regards
 >>> Paul
 >>> WB8TSL
 >>> 
 >>> On
 Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
 >> wrote:
 >>>
 
 >>>> Bob/Paul,
 >>>> 
 >>>> Thanks. And there's the
 rub... Who knows what the specs are on
 "generic"
 

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 21 Apr 2016 01:00, "Bob Camp"  wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
from and what the specs are.

There is plenty of coax marked LMR400 that is produced in China and not by
Times Microwave.  Judging by the amount of counterfeit electronic devices
around,  I would nit in the least be surprised if there's stuff around
printed "Times Microwave" that is made in China, but with no relationship
to the company whose name is on it.

Dave.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

Paul, 

LOL! So, along those lines… one other question, since I can’t find my belden, 
I’ll be buying some coax. Anyone have any opinions about RG6 for CCTV vs CATV? 
My understanding is the CCTV version always has a solid copper center conductor 
(which in my mind would mean less voltage loss for the DC power going to the 
antenna), or I’m still overthinking it and should just go with standard RG6?

Thanks! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 13:04 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Ryan a slight heads up.
> Time Nuts is not about time accuracy as many people assume.
> Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we know we have.
> We just measure that time accurately.
> I do not use anti seize. Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
> deal with.
> If you use the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>> 
>> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something
>> like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The
>> actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the
>> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
>> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side
>> of my chimney, that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
>> should be minimal. But good note on that regard.
>> 
>> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also
>> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my
>> seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly
>> easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
>> (har har) sells (Southwire (
>> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
>> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> 
>> -Ryan Stasel
>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
>>> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
>> held
>>> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
>>> Layer of rubber tape
>>> scotch kote
>>> Layer of plastic tape
>>> scotch kote
>>> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
>> years. I
>>> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
>>> connectors and coax.
>>> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
>>> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Bob/Paul,
 
 Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
 RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise
>> yeah,
 RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
 including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
 they work).
 
 Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
 "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
>> anyone
 bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
>> seizing
 it up.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Ryan Stasel
 IT Operations Manager, SOJC
 University of Oregon
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
 specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
 from and what the specs are.
> 
> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
 is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3
>> db.
 Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will
>> need
 a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
 mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
 that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
 with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
 I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
 source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
>> 
>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
 with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
 again. =)
>> 
>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
 the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially
>> one
 of the JRMiller board

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Jeremy Nichols]

The silicone tape also has the advantage (if buying from Uline) that you 
can get two (2) rolls; for the 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape the 
minimum is 10 rolls.


Jeremy

On 4/21/2016 5:57 PM, William H. Fite wrote:

Mark is right on target re the connectors; get the best you can afford.
Amphenol or equivalent.

Self-fusing silicone tape is a lot faster and easier than the 3M black
tape. Just stretch and wrap, it conforms beautifully, is highly resistant
to UV, and won't stiffen and crack in the cold. Best of all, if you need to
remove it, you just split it with a knife and it comes off cleanly.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-11849/High-Temperature-Tapes/Silicone-Self-Fusing-Tape-1-x-12-yds-Red?pricode=WY637&gadtype=pla&id=S-11849&gclid=CjwKEAjw9OG4BRDJzY3jrMng4iQSJABddor1kp3L3ESovor8DEeu0fEjhLXVWv0maB4ehIVQ1EEASBoC6kTw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



On Thursday, April 21, 2016, Mark Spencer  wrote:


That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio
activities.   Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is
helpful during quick weekend projects.

Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the
"splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.

These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit
more forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other
types.   (Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)

Your experience and results may differ from mine.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH 
> wrote:

DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends

these

two products:

http://www.dxengineering.com/


3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
Scotch Super 33+ tape

The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.

There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so

when

you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no

residue.

Great system!

Dave



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On

Behalf

Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
(Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

All,

Really awesome answers, thanks!

For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother
with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual
thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was
planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's
also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no
direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note

___
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[William H. Fite]

Mark is right on target re the connectors; get the best you can afford.
Amphenol or equivalent.

Self-fusing silicone tape is a lot faster and easier than the 3M black
tape. Just stretch and wrap, it conforms beautifully, is highly resistant
to UV, and won't stiffen and crack in the cold. Best of all, if you need to
remove it, you just split it with a knife and it comes off cleanly.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-11849/High-Temperature-Tapes/Silicone-Self-Fusing-Tape-1-x-12-yds-Red?pricode=WY637&gadtype=pla&id=S-11849&gclid=CjwKEAjw9OG4BRDJzY3jrMng4iQSJABddor1kp3L3ESovor8DEeu0fEjhLXVWv0maB4ehIVQ1EEASBoC6kTw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



On Thursday, April 21, 2016, Mark Spencer  wrote:

> That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio
> activities.   Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is
> helpful during quick weekend projects.
>
> Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the
> "splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.
>
> These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit
> more forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other
> types.   (Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)
>
> Your experience and results may differ from mine.
>
> 73
> Mark S
> VE7AFZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH  > wrote:
> >
> > DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends
> these
> > two products:
> >
> > http://www.dxengineering.com/
> >
> >
> > 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
> > Scotch Super 33+ tape
> >
> > The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
> > connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
> > joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.
> >
> > There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so
> when
> > you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no
> residue.
> > Great system!
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-----
> >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com ] On
> Behalf
> >> Of Ryan Stasel
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna
> >> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Really awesome answers, thanks!
> >>
> >> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother
> >> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual
> >> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was
> >> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink
> >> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> >> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's
> >> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no
> >> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

All accurate accept the aging rate of any coax/heliax. Useful life =Years
of expected life/woodpecker attacks. I would never have believed it but I
am actually having trouble with those birds. :-) Just never know.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Tom Holmes  wrote:

> Ryan...
>
> I've done a lot of tower work over the years, and have taken down quite a
> few antennas, which of course meant removing whatever seal was used and
> separating the connector halves. I have never found an N connector seized.
> Usually a gentle twist using a pair of pliers will break the sleeve loose.
> And I should point out that you don’t need to torque the sleeve any more
> than gently when you mate the halves. Too much torque will distort the
> internals and possibly damage things, or at least make the inherent SWR
> bump a bit worse.
>
> Frankly, I would be concerned about the anti-seize compound migrating into
> the inner workings of the connector and adding a bit of loss, which is
> another reason not to use it. I'm not a big fan of the greases that are
> suggested for use inside of connectors as a way to keep moisture out, again
> because of their affect on the losses at 1575 MHz.
>
> My observations with various types of coax, such as Belden brand RG-8 and
> RG-213, as well as Andrew Heliax is that even after 30 years outside in
> Ohio weather, the outer jacket holds up quite well. Unsupported sections of
> the RG types of coax that can flop around in the wind sometimes show cracks
> and splits from years of flexing, however. The occasional punch through
> from lightning has been found as well near the tops of 100' towers.
>
> Don’t get too uptight about the cabling; just do your best to make it
> neat, reasonably well sealed (you are putting it in a pipe outside, that's
> very good), and keep the bend radii gentle and you'll be fine.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Tom Holmes, N8ZM
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
> Stasel
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 1:08 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A
> and T-bolt)
>
> All,
>
> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>
> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something
> like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The
> actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the
> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side
> of my chimney, that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
> should be minimal. But good note on that regard.
>
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also
> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my
> seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly
> easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
> (har har) sells (Southwire (
> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Ryan Stasel
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
> held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
> years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >>
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise
> yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >>
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof"

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Mark Spencer]

That is more or less the same method I use for my amateur radio activities.   
Home Depot in Canada sells similar 3M products which is helpful during quick 
weekend projects.

Professionally I've seen other methods used but on my own time I like the 
"splicing tape" covered with super "33 tape" approach.  

These days I mostly use "N" connectors which in my experience can be a bit more 
forgiving of less than perfect weather proofing than certain other types.   
(Not all "N" type connectors are equal in my view.)

Your experience and results may differ from mine.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 1:12 PM, DaveH  wrote:
> 
> DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends these
> two products:
> 
> http://www.dxengineering.com/
> 
> 
> 3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
> Scotch Super 33+ tape
> 
> The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
> connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
> joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.
> 
> There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so when
> you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no residue.
> Great system!
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Ryan Stasel
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna 
>> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
>> 
>> All, 
>> 
>> Really awesome answers, thanks! 
>> 
>> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother 
>> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual 
>> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was 
>> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
>> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast 
>> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's 
>> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no 
>> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note
> 
___
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Tom Holmes]

Ryan...

I've done a lot of tower work over the years, and have taken down quite a few 
antennas, which of course meant removing whatever seal was used and separating 
the connector halves. I have never found an N connector seized. Usually a 
gentle twist using a pair of pliers will break the sleeve loose. And I should 
point out that you don’t need to torque the sleeve any more than gently when 
you mate the halves. Too much torque will distort the internals and possibly 
damage things, or at least make the inherent SWR bump a bit worse. 

Frankly, I would be concerned about the anti-seize compound migrating into the 
inner workings of the connector and adding a bit of loss, which is another 
reason not to use it. I'm not a big fan of the greases that are suggested for 
use inside of connectors as a way to keep moisture out, again because of their 
affect on the losses at 1575 MHz.

My observations with various types of coax, such as Belden brand RG-8 and 
RG-213, as well as Andrew Heliax is that even after 30 years outside in Ohio 
weather, the outer jacket holds up quite well. Unsupported sections of the RG 
types of coax that can flop around in the wind sometimes show cracks and splits 
from years of flexing, however. The occasional punch through from lightning has 
been found as well near the tops of 100' towers.

Don’t get too uptight about the cabling; just do your best to make it neat, 
reasonably well sealed (you are putting it in a pipe outside, that's very 
good), and keep the bend radii gentle and you'll be fine.

Have fun!

Tom Holmes, N8ZM


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Stasel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 1:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and 
T-bolt)

All, 

Really awesome answers, thanks! 

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something like 
anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The actual 
connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast anyway, so direct 
weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that 
gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good 
note on that regard. 

Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also the 
fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my seller 
wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly easier to 
handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot (har har) 
sells (Southwire 
(http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
 I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it. 

Thanks again! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> Bob/Paul,
>> 
>> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
>> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
>> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
>> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
>> they work).
>> 
>> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
>> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
>> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
>> it up.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Ryan Stasel
>> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
>> University of Oregon
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
>> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
>> from and what the specs are.
>>> 
>>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
>> is 

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[DaveH]

DX Engineering (another great compuany to do business with) recomends these
two products:

http://www.dxengineering.com/


3M Temflex 2155 Rubber Splicing Tape followed with a covering of
Scotch Super 33+ tape

The rubber conforms tightly with the connectors and waterproofs the
connection while the Super 33+ tape seals everything up and protects the
joint from UV degredation and mechanical abrasion.

There is very little adhesion between the Temflex and your hardware so when
you want to rework the connection, it comes away very clean with no residue.
Great system!

Dave
 

> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
> Of Ryan Stasel
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:08
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna 
> (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)
> 
> All, 
> 
> Really awesome answers, thanks! 
> 
> For the sealing question, it was more of a "should I bother 
> with something like anti-seize" or the like on the actual 
> thread-thread N interface. The actual connector crimp, was 
> planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
> with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast 
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It's 
> also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little to no 
> direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note 
> on that regard. 
> 
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and 
> amp, and also the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. 
> I'm going to see what my seller wants for LMR400, but 
> otherwise, I'll just use RG6. It's certainly easier to 
> handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home 
> despot (har har) sells (Southwire 
> (http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?c
> ontentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)). I swear I have a box of Belden 
> somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. 
> 
> Thanks again! 
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> > 
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the 
> connections held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 
> or more years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of 
> shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate 
> over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>  wrote:
> > 
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >> 
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs 
> are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, 
> but otherwise yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp 
> connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably 
> for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >> 
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm 
> curious if anyone
> >> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from 
> otherwise seizing
> >> it up.
> >> 
> >> Thanks!
> >> 
> >> Ryan Stasel
> >> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> >> University of Oregon
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi
> >>> 
> >>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it's meeting 
> the published
> >> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* 
> where it came
> >> from and what the specs are.
> >>> 
> >>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO's, a 
> powered splitter
> >> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, 
> you loose 3 db.
> >> Get at least a 4 way splitter ..
> >>> 
> >>> Bob
> >>> 
> >>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel 
>  wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> All,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm going to be installing a "permanent" antenna at 
> home, and will need
> &

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[David Fav]

  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
  For long distance you need the right cable. Since the Antenna is
likely designed for 50 ohms use 50 ohm cable

If it's a fixed installation maybe RG8 with pl259 to N adaptor would
be a good bet ?

This garden hose cable might be cheaper than  RG6 quad.
 http://www.novatel.com/assets/Documents/Bulletins/apn032.pdf [1]
 --
 This message is virus free, protected by Primus - Canada's
 largest alternative telecommunications provider.
 http://www.primus.ca 
 On Thu 21/04/16  6:48 AM , Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org sent:
 Hi 
 Most of the data sheets on RG-6 Quad show it around 9 db per 100’.
Like any of the  
 “old” (RG) specs, there really is no control on who does what
with a given type of 
 cable. The direct burial versions seem to be a little more
consistent.  
 Bob 
 > On Apr 20, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Pete Stephenson  wrote: 
 >  
 > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote: 
 >> All, 
 >>  
 >> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home,
and will need a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the
mast I’ll be mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve
seen some indication that both the antenna and the Trimble
Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 75ohm cable,
but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off
with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that
doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
 >>  
 >> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be
better off with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into
the crawlspace again. =) 
 >  
 > I'm hardly an expert, but according to the Times Microwave
calculator 
 > at , [4] RG6 (of unspecified 
 > type, presumably double not quad-shielded) at 1542MHz will have a
loss 
 > of 12dB over a 100ft length. LMR400 will have a loss of 5.2dB over

 > that same length. 
 >  
 > The datasheet for your specific cable should show the loss
figures. 
 >  
 > The 58532A has an amplifier with a gain of >30dB, so it should
work 
 > well even at moderate cable lengths. 
 >  
 > Keep in mind that the Thunderbolt Starter kit came with a Trimble 
 > Bullet antenna (similar gain to the 58532A) and 75 feet of RG6;
it'll 
 > almost certainly work fine with 100ft of cable: the manual for the

 > Thunderbolt recommends RG-59 cable (presumably because it's cheap
and 
 > common) and states "The maximum practical cable run is just over
100 
 > feet." A graph in the manual shows RG-59 losing 15dB over 100ft, 
 >  
 > To be safe, you could always test it by connecting the 100ft of
cable 
 > to the antenna and putting it outside in a more convenient
location 
 > that has a similar view as your mast and seeing how the
Thunderbolt 
 > likes it. 
 >  
 > Also, keep in mind that the 58516A splitter can have between +3
and -3 
 > dB of gain depending on your luck as to how it was made. The
manual 
 > says that for relatively lossy RG-213 cable and the worst case 
 > performance of the 58516A, you should be fine with up to 174 feet
of 
 > cable with no line amplifier. 
 >  
 >> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A
at/near the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well
(especially one of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never
finished) ages ago). Which brings the question, will the T-bolt
provide the oomph needed to power that splitter and the antenna over
that length of cable? 
 >  
 > Short answer: Yes. 
 >  
 > Longer answer: The Thunderbolt manual says it can supply 5V at up
to 
 > 45mA. The 58532A antenna draws a max of 27mA (with 20mA being 
 > typical). The 58516A splitter manual draws it uses 10mA. Worst
case 
 > usage is 37mA, which is within the limits for the Thunderbolt. 
 >  
 > Considering both conductors, 100ft of LMR400 has a DC resistance
of 
 > 0.304 ohms, so the voltage drop would only be 0.01V over that
length. 
 > That's well within specs for the antenna (5V +/- 0.5V) and the 
 > splitter (4.5 to 30V). 
 >  
 > The specs for Belden 1189AP quad-shield RG6/U cable with a
copper-clad 
 > steel center conductor and aluminum braid lists the total
resistance 
 > for both conductors to be 3.28 ohms over 100 feet. That's a
worst-case 
 > voltage drop of 0.12V over that distance, again within spec for
both 
 > devices. 
 >  
 > In short, LMR400 would be a better choice in terms of both signal 
 > attenuation and DC resistance, but the difference is more or less 
 > academic and either cable should work fine. 
 >  
 > Cheers! 
 > -Pete 
 >  
 > --  
 > Pete Stephenson 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[jimlux]

On 4/21/16 10:07 AM, Ryan Stasel wrote:

All,

Really awesome answers, thanks!

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with
something like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N
interface. The actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a
couple layers of the heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to
be internal to the mast anyway, so direct weather contact should be
minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that gets very little
to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good note on
that regard.


even without direct sunlight, there is substantial UV exposure in some 
areas:  it reflects off the building and ground surfaces, and there's 
scattered UV from the sky and clouds.


I've got UV affected paper and plastic on the north side of my house 
where the sun never shines, but which is still exposed to the sky and 
which sees reflected UV from my neighbor's house.


Finding good numbers with google is tricky, but levels like 25% to 50% 
of sunlight levels are cited in a number of places.  Partly it's a 
"duration of exposure" thing: you get exposed as long as the sun is 
above the horizon, so while the intensity might be lower, the duration 
is longer.


And, of course, where you live makes a difference: in some places, the 
smog probably attenuates the UV a lot, so while UV degradation is 
minimized, now you have to worry about ozone.

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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Clay Autery]

Yup... layers = longevity

3M self-fusing rubber
comformal coating
3M electrical tap (with a fold back for removal)
conformal coating.

I've got 12 year old connections that are still going strong with no
measurable degradation.

I always use the best cable and connectors I can find...  do it right;
you only gotta do it once.

__
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/21/2016 8:02 AM, paul swed wrote:
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

Ryan a slight heads up.
Time Nuts is not about time accuracy as many people assume.
Its actually about the time we all waste looking for what we know we have.
We just measure that time accurately.
I do not use anti seize. Nothing against it just one more glob of stuff to
deal with.
If you use the heat shrink and it seals your done for my 2 cents.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> All,
>
> Really awesome answers, thanks!
>
> For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something
> like anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The
> actual connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the
> heat-shrink with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast
> anyway, so direct weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side
> of my chimney, that gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure
> should be minimal. But good note on that regard.
>
> Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also
> the fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my
> seller wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly
> easier to handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot
> (har har) sells (Southwire (
> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
> I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Ryan Stasel
>
> > On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> > I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections
> held
> > up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> > Layer of rubber tape
> > scotch kote
> > Layer of plastic tape
> > scotch kote
> > If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more
> years. I
> > want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> > connectors and coax.
> > The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> > But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bob/Paul,
> >>
> >> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> >> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise
> yeah,
> >> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> >> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> >> they work).
> >>
> >> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> >> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if
> anyone
> >> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise
> seizing
> >> it up.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Ryan Stasel
> >> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> >> University of Oregon
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
> >> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
> >> from and what the specs are.
> >>>
> >>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
> >> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3
> db.
> >> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
>  On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>  All,
> 
>  I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will
> need
> >> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
> >> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
> >> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
> >> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
> >> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
> >> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
> 
>  Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
> >> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
> >> again. =)
> 
>  Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
> >> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially
> one
> >> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages
> ago).
> >> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> >> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> 
>  Thanks!
> 
>  -Ryan Stasel
> 
> 
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>  and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>> ___

Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

All, 

Really awesome answers, thanks! 

For the sealing question, it was more of a “should I bother with something like 
anti-seize” or the like on the actual thread-thread N interface. The actual 
connector crimp, was planning on just using a couple layers of the heat-shrink 
with adhesive. That is all going to be internal to the mast anyway, so direct 
weather contact should be minimal. It’s also on the side of my chimney, that 
gets very little to no direct sun, so UV exposure should be minimal. But good 
note on that regard. 

Pete, thank you very much for the info wrt the antenna and amp, and also the 
fact the Trimble starter kit came with RG6. I’m going to see what my seller 
wants for LMR400, but otherwise, I’ll just use RG6. It’s certainly easier to 
handle. I did find some datasheets on the stuff that Home despot (har har) 
sells (Southwire 
(http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM80)).
 I swear I have a box of Belden somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it. 

Thanks again! 

-Ryan Stasel

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 06:02 , paul swed  wrote:
> 
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
>> Bob/Paul,
>> 
>> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
>> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
>> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
>> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
>> they work).
>> 
>> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
>> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
>> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
>> it up.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Ryan Stasel
>> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
>> University of Oregon
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
>> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
>> from and what the specs are.
>>> 
>>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
>> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db.
>> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
 
 All,
 
 I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need
>> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
>> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
>> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
>> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
>> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
>> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
 
 Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
>> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
>> again. =)
 
 Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
>> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one
>> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
>> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
>> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
 
 Thanks!
 
 -Ryan Stasel
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can "weatherproof" 
> the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone bothers to "lube" 
> the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing it up.

I've got an antenna like this on my roof.  For all practical purposes
the N connector is in an indoor environment.  The connector and the
cable is inside a pipe that is sealed from weather.  In my case the
pipe extends through the roof into the attic.  No part of the cable or
connector is exposed to the elements.   In the attic there is a small
metal junction box and I make a transition to 1" plastic conduit  The
flexible plastic conduit was cheap and is code approved for low
voltage wring.  It will make a cable change out and easy job should I
ever need to do that.

I used the conduit because like you I was debating what kind of cable
to use.  I went with the cheap kind and figured I could upgrade if
need be.   It's an easy job to use the old cable to pull the new cable
but I never had to do that.  My T-Bolt and Motorola GPSes work well
with the cheap cable.  (my antenna has a 26db amp inside.)
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Most of the data sheets on RG-6 Quad show it around 9 db per 100’. Like any of 
the 
“old” (RG) specs, there really is no control on who does what with a given type 
of
cable. The direct burial versions seem to be a little more consistent. 

Bob


> On Apr 20, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Pete Stephenson  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> All,
>> 
>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a 
>> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting 
>> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
>> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
>> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off 
>> with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t 
>> know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
>> 
>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
>> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
> 
> I'm hardly an expert, but according to the Times Microwave calculator
> at , RG6 (of unspecified
> type, presumably double not quad-shielded) at 1542MHz will have a loss
> of 12dB over a 100ft length. LMR400 will have a loss of 5.2dB over
> that same length.
> 
> The datasheet for your specific cable should show the loss figures.
> 
> The 58532A has an amplifier with a gain of >30dB, so it should work
> well even at moderate cable lengths.
> 
> Keep in mind that the Thunderbolt Starter kit came with a Trimble
> Bullet antenna (similar gain to the 58532A) and 75 feet of RG6; it'll
> almost certainly work fine with 100ft of cable: the manual for the
> Thunderbolt recommends RG-59 cable (presumably because it's cheap and
> common) and states "The maximum practical cable run is just over 100
> feet." A graph in the manual shows RG-59 losing 15dB over 100ft,
> 
> To be safe, you could always test it by connecting the 100ft of cable
> to the antenna and putting it outside in a more convenient location
> that has a similar view as your mast and seeing how the Thunderbolt
> likes it.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the 58516A splitter can have between +3 and -3
> dB of gain depending on your luck as to how it was made. The manual
> says that for relatively lossy RG-213 cable and the worst case
> performance of the 58516A, you should be fine with up to 174 feet of
> cable with no line amplifier.
> 
>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
>> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of 
>> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
>> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
>> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> 
> Short answer: Yes.
> 
> Longer answer: The Thunderbolt manual says it can supply 5V at up to
> 45mA. The 58532A antenna draws a max of 27mA (with 20mA being
> typical). The 58516A splitter manual draws it uses 10mA. Worst case
> usage is 37mA, which is within the limits for the Thunderbolt.
> 
> Considering both conductors, 100ft of LMR400 has a DC resistance of
> 0.304 ohms, so the voltage drop would only be 0.01V over that length.
> That's well within specs for the antenna (5V +/- 0.5V) and the
> splitter (4.5 to 30V).
> 
> The specs for Belden 1189AP quad-shield RG6/U cable with a copper-clad
> steel center conductor and aluminum braid lists the total resistance
> for both conductors to be 3.28 ohms over 100 feet. That's a worst-case
> voltage drop of 0.12V over that distance, again within spec for both
> devices.
> 
> In short, LMR400 would be a better choice in terms of both signal
> attenuation and DC resistance, but the difference is more or less
> academic and either cable should work fine.
> 
> Cheers!
> -Pete
> 
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
Layer of rubber tape
scotch kote
Layer of plastic tape
scotch kote
If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
connectors and coax.
The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
But as I say everyone has their own approach.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> Bob/Paul,
>
> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic"
> RG6 QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah,
> RG6 is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it,
> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but
> they work).
>
> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can
> "weatherproof" the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone
> bothers to "lube" the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing
> it up.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan Stasel
> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> University of Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
> from and what the specs are.
> >
> > If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter
> is a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db.
> Get at least a 4 way splitter ….
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need
> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
> >>
> >> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off
> with LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace
> again. =)
> >>
> >> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one
> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Ryan Stasel
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Magnus Danielson]

Ryan,

LMR400 give you low loss and relatively high temperature stability.
That's what I use. If you can get it at a decent price, use it.

The foam core isolation is sensitive to being squeezed. Also be careful 
not to make tight bends, but rather let it have large bending radius.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 04/20/2016 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel wrote:

All,

I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a run 
of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting the 
antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off with 
some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t know what 
LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?

Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)

Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the 
JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which brings 
the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that splitter 
and the antenna over that length of cable?

Thanks!

-Ryan Stasel


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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bruce Lane]

My $0.02 worth.

If the cable is going to be exposed to sunlight and weather, long-term,
be sure you get a cable type rated for UV exposure (polyethylene
jacketed). If you really want to get something rugged, and you don't
mind removing a bit of citrus-scented goo, go with 'DB' (Direct Burial)
suffixed cable (Example: LMR400DB).

Whatever you do, DON'T use the cheap PVC-jacketed cable! Sunlight eats
that stuff for breakfast.

Happy tweaking.


On 20-Apr-16 18:03, Ryan Stasel wrote:
> Bob/Paul,
> 
> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic" RG6 
> QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah, RG6 
> is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it, 
> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but they 
> work). 
> 
> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can "weatherproof" 
> the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone bothers to "lube" 
> the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing it up. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ryan Stasel
> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> University of Oregon
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 

(Snipped to save space).

-- 
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Rob Sherwood .]

I purchases NOS 3/8th inch hardline for my GPS antenna run.  It had factory 
installed N connectors on it, so all I needed was an N to TNC adapter on the 
receiver end of my Trak GPSDO. Rob, NC0B.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 6:00 PM, "Bob Camp"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published specs. 
> The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came from and 
> what the specs are. 
> 
> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter is a 
> really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at 
> least a 4 way splitter ….
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> 
>> All, 
>> 
>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a 
>> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting 
>> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
>> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
>> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off 
>> with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t 
>> know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
>> 
>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
>> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
>> 
>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
>> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of 
>> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
>> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
>> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable? 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> 
>> -Ryan Stasel
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Pete Stephenson]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> All,
>
> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a run 
> of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting the 
> antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off with 
> some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t know 
> what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
>
> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)

I'm hardly an expert, but according to the Times Microwave calculator
at , RG6 (of unspecified
type, presumably double not quad-shielded) at 1542MHz will have a loss
of 12dB over a 100ft length. LMR400 will have a loss of 5.2dB over
that same length.

The datasheet for your specific cable should show the loss figures.

The 58532A has an amplifier with a gain of >30dB, so it should work
well even at moderate cable lengths.

Keep in mind that the Thunderbolt Starter kit came with a Trimble
Bullet antenna (similar gain to the 58532A) and 75 feet of RG6; it'll
almost certainly work fine with 100ft of cable: the manual for the
Thunderbolt recommends RG-59 cable (presumably because it's cheap and
common) and states "The maximum practical cable run is just over 100
feet." A graph in the manual shows RG-59 losing 15dB over 100ft,

To be safe, you could always test it by connecting the 100ft of cable
to the antenna and putting it outside in a more convenient location
that has a similar view as your mast and seeing how the Thunderbolt
likes it.

Also, keep in mind that the 58516A splitter can have between +3 and -3
dB of gain depending on your luck as to how it was made. The manual
says that for relatively lossy RG-213 cable and the worst case
performance of the 58516A, you should be fine with up to 174 feet of
cable with no line amplifier.

> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the 
> JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: The Thunderbolt manual says it can supply 5V at up to
45mA. The 58532A antenna draws a max of 27mA (with 20mA being
typical). The 58516A splitter manual draws it uses 10mA. Worst case
usage is 37mA, which is within the limits for the Thunderbolt.

Considering both conductors, 100ft of LMR400 has a DC resistance of
0.304 ohms, so the voltage drop would only be 0.01V over that length.
That's well within specs for the antenna (5V +/- 0.5V) and the
splitter (4.5 to 30V).

The specs for Belden 1189AP quad-shield RG6/U cable with a copper-clad
steel center conductor and aluminum braid lists the total resistance
for both conductors to be 3.28 ohms over 100 feet. That's a worst-case
voltage drop of 0.12V over that distance, again within spec for both
devices.

In short, LMR400 would be a better choice in terms of both signal
attenuation and DC resistance, but the difference is more or less
academic and either cable should work fine.

Cheers!
-Pete

-- 
Pete Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[bownes]

N connectors should never need to 'lubed'. Properly assembled they are 
waterproof. Same goes for BNC. That's what the rubber gasket on the mating 
surface is for. Metrology grade Ns don't have the gasket but you shouldn't need 
it on your metrology bench. :)

That being said, it never hurts to wrapped up with coax seal tape. 

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 21:03, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
> Bob/Paul,
> 
> Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic" RG6 
> QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah, RG6 
> is just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it, 
> including some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but they 
> work). 
> 
> Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can "weatherproof" 
> the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone bothers to "lube" 
> the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing it up. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ryan Stasel
> IT Operations Manager, SOJC
> University of Oregon
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published specs. 
>> The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came from and 
>> what the specs are. 
>> 
>> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter is a 
>> really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at 
>> least a 4 way splitter ….
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>>> 
>>> All, 
>>> 
>>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a 
>>> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting 
>>> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both 
>>> the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running 
>>> over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better 
>>> off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that 
>>> doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
>>> 
>>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
>>> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
>>> 
>>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
>>> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of 
>>> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). 
>>> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to 
>>> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable? 
>>> 
>>> Thanks! 
>>> 
>>> -Ryan Stasel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[William H. Fite]

I've gotten some very poor quality RG6 in the past, despite having
purchased it from ostensibly reputable sources. Now I use
honest-to-goodness Times Microwave LMR400.

I have terminated LMR400 with BNC, PL259, SO239, and N connectors and never
had one fail. It is not at all difficult to do.

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price has been forgotten."

Bill


On Wednesday, April 20, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published
> specs. The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came
> from and what the specs are.
>
> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter is
> a really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get
> at least a 4 way splitter ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  > wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need
> a run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be
> mounting the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication
> that both the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues
> with running over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether
> I’d be better off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local
> source that doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
> >
> > Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with
> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
> >
> > Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near
> the T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one
> of the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Ryan Stasel
> >
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

Bob/Paul,

Thanks. And there's the rub... Who knows what the specs are on "generic" RG6 
QS. I'll see what my seller wants for their LMR400, but otherwise yeah, RG6 is 
just easier. I have both compression and crimp connectors for it, including 
some RG6 N-connectors (yeah, they're probably for LMR300, but they work). 

Other question: any tips for the exterior N connection? I can "weatherproof" 
the actual cable-connector crimp, but I'm curious if anyone bothers to "lube" 
the N connector to keep moisture from otherwise seizing it up. 

Thanks!

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 17:00, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published specs. 
> The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came from and 
> what the specs are. 
> 
> If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter is a 
> really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at 
> least a 4 way splitter ….
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
>> 
>> All, 
>> 
>> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a 
>> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting 
>> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
>> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
>> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off 
>> with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t 
>> know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
>> 
>> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
>> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
>> 
>> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
>> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of 
>> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
>> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
>> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable? 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> 
>> -Ryan Stasel
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

RG-6 Quad Shield should be fine as long as it’s meeting the published specs. 
The advantage of LRM-400 is that you likely *know* where it came from and what 
the specs are. 

If you decide to split the antenna between GPSDO’s, a powered splitter is a 
really good idea. Each time you split another 2 ways, you loose 3 db. Get at 
least a 4 way splitter ….

Bob

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:
> 
> All, 
> 
> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a run 
> of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting the 
> antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
> antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
> 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off with 
> some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t know 
> what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 
> 
> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
> 
> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the 
> JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which 
> brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that 
> splitter and the antenna over that length of cable? 
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> -Ryan Stasel
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[paul swed]

Ryan,
Several comments. LMR400 at 1500 Mhz is 5.1 db loss. RG 6 typically does
not seem to have a spec that I could see in this range. But will guess
9-10db. So at least 3 db more.
But that said RG6 has been used for Sat TV downlinks for years just fine
and I have used it for GPS just fine also. However I ran across a to good
to be true deal and did replace the link with LMR400 yes it made a
difference. Would I pay brand new price for LMR400 nope. My runs about 90'
all in.
Other consideration is ease of routing and terminating. RG6 is about as
easy as it gets. You can actually buy RG6 BNC connectors. I purchased a
number of crimp ones and they really work nicely.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ryan Stasel  wrote:

> All,
>
> I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a
> run of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting
> the antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both
> the antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running
> over 75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better
> off with some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that
> doesn’t know what LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)?
>
> Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with
> LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)
>
> Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the
> T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of
> the JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago).
> Which brings the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to
> power that splitter and the antenna over that length of cable?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan Stasel
>
>
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[time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Ryan Stasel]

All, 

I’m going to be installing a “permanent” antenna at home, and will need a run 
of about 100ft to get from my workstation, to the mast I’ll be mounting the 
antenna on (Symmetricom 58532A). I’ve seen some indication that both the 
antenna and the Trimble Thunderbolt won’t have any issues with running over 
75ohm cable, but thought I’d ask the “experts” whether I’d be better off with 
some RG6 Quad-shield, or LMR400 (I’ve got a local source that doesn’t know what 
LMR400 is, or what it’s worth)? 

Obviously I’d prefer to run and crimp RG6, but if I’d be better off with 
LMR400, I’d rather run that now than go back into the crawlspace again. =)

Also, if it helps, I’ll probably have a Symmetricom/HP 58516A at/near the 
T-bolt so I can experiment with other GPS(DO)s as well (especially one of the 
JRMiller boards I bought and built (but never finished) ages ago). Which brings 
the question, will the T-bolt provide the oomph needed to power that splitter 
and the antenna over that length of cable? 

Thanks! 

-Ryan Stasel


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