Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Any one of you 1210 owners among the time-nuts who might want to sell a unit like that, please let me know. (Won't fire a missile with it ;-) SEBASTIAN STOLP GOETZHUSERWEG 165 CH5245 HABSBURG, SWITZERLAND GOOGLE EARTH: 47°28'04.15''N 8°10'06.10''E + 41 76 200 00 80 + 41 56 534 56 26 Am 10.03.2007 um 03:03 schrieb Steve Krull: > > Close, but not quite. PMEL is an acronym for Precision Measurement > Equipment Laboratory. They are metrology labs tasked with > maintenance and operation of the standards for electrical (voltage, > current, resistance, frequency, and time) as well as mechanical > standards for weight, pressure, etc. Larger labs also had optics > and radiation cal facilities. They also calibrated and repaired the > working standards and test equipment used by the rest of the base, > tenant units, and off-site facilities. I spent 8 years of active > duty time, and several more in the ANG, running the time/frequency > and RF sections of various PMELs stateside and overseas. > We used the 1210D as a transfer standard to set the timing on > everything from comm links to missile launch crypto links. We had a > time/frequency console with Cs and Rb standards, as well as HP and > Fluke VLF receivers, and a host of HP and Sulzer crystal > oscillators, and a fairly sophisticated cross-comparison system. > The 1210's were adjusted against the console, driven directly to > the silos, and rechecked on return to the lab. The specs for > allowable error over the time they were out of the lab are still > classified, even though the missile systems are gone. My last > couple of years in an air national guard unit, we switched to GPS- > disciplined timing standards to set TOD/WOD codes for the secure > air-to-air and air-to-ground comm systems. Wish I could remember > the manufacturer of the units, Magnavox I think. They were three- > piece systems in supposedly EMP-proof boxes, and took three men and > a boy to move around. > Steve Krull > > Brian Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> PMEL is the correct term in the Air Force. It stands for Precision >> Meteorological Electronic Lab, it the branch of the Air Force that >> does >> test equipment calibration. >> >> The 1210D was standard test equipment for labs that did not have >> rubidiums and cesiums, which was quite a few. >> >> When I worked in satellite communications back in the late 70s, early >> 80s, I seen a lot of these units (1210D). We used HP cesium beams at >> the earth stations. These units were tracked back the USNO, and we >> used >> a modem to do time transfer over the air, to check the cesiums drift. >> The cal labs brought there 1210D's to our site about every 30 days to >> calibrate and sync the 1210s. >> >> Rob Kimberley wrote: >>> Hi John, >>> >>> Not heard that one before. It is always possible that there was >>> some batch >>> selection, but unaware of this during my time (July '85 to Dec '88). >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:time-nuts- >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR >>> Sent: 09 March 2007 13:29 >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update >>> >>> Rob Kimberley said the following on 03/09/2007 03:25 AM: >>>> John, >>>> >>>> The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice >>>> oscillator. I >>>> also believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US >>>> Navy for >>>> portable references to sync up Subs. >>> >>> Hi Rob -- >>> >>> I had heard mutterings that the 1150s that went into the 1210s >>> weren't quite >>> as hand-picked as the ones that went into the 1250A standard, but >>> this one >>> seems to be doing quite well. (I just got a 1250A that on a quick >>> test >>> performs at least as well as this 1210; I'll be doing a better >>> test after >>> it's had a chance to stabilize for another week or two.) >>> >>> It does appear that an awful lot of the 1210s went into various >>> military >>> applications; one of the few references I found on-line was to >>> one of the >>> PMEL (I think I got that acronym right) chat groups for the Air >>> Force. >>> >>> John >>> >>> ___
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Close, but not quite. PMEL is an acronym for Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory. They are metrology labs tasked with maintenance and operation of the standards for electrical (voltage, current, resistance, frequency, and time) as well as mechanical standards for weight, pressure, etc. Larger labs also had optics and radiation cal facilities. They also calibrated and repaired the working standards and test equipment used by the rest of the base, tenant units, and off-site facilities. I spent 8 years of active duty time, and several more in the ANG, running the time/frequency and RF sections of various PMELs stateside and overseas. We used the 1210D as a transfer standard to set the timing on everything from comm links to missile launch crypto links. We had a time/frequency console with Cs and Rb standards, as well as HP and Fluke VLF receivers, and a host of HP and Sulzer crystal oscillators, and a fairly sophisticated cross-comparison system. The 1210's were adjusted against the console, driven directly to the silos, and rechecked on return to the lab. The specs for allowable error over the time they were out of the lab are still classified, even though the missile systems are gone. My last couple of years in an air national guard unit, we switched to GPS-disciplined timing standards to set TOD/WOD codes for the secure air-to-air and air-to-ground comm systems. Wish I could remember the manufacturer of the units, Magnavox I think. They were three-piece systems in supposedly EMP-proof boxes, and took three men and a boy to move around. Steve Krull Brian Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > PMEL is the correct term in the Air Force. It stands for Precision > Meteorological Electronic Lab, it the branch of the Air Force that does > test equipment calibration. > > The 1210D was standard test equipment for labs that did not have > rubidiums and cesiums, which was quite a few. > > When I worked in satellite communications back in the late 70s, early > 80s, I seen a lot of these units (1210D). We used HP cesium beams at > the earth stations. These units were tracked back the USNO, and we used > a modem to do time transfer over the air, to check the cesiums drift. > The cal labs brought there 1210D's to our site about every 30 days to > calibrate and sync the 1210s. > > Rob Kimberley wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > Not heard that one before. It is always possible that there was some batch > > selection, but unaware of this during my time (July '85 to Dec '88). > > > > Rob > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR > > Sent: 09 March 2007 13:29 > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update > > > > Rob Kimberley said the following on 03/09/2007 03:25 AM: > >> John, > >> > >> The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice oscillator. I > >> also believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US Navy for > >> portable references to sync up Subs. > > > > Hi Rob -- > > > > I had heard mutterings that the 1150s that went into the 1210s weren't quite > > as hand-picked as the ones that went into the 1250A standard, but this one > > seems to be doing quite well. (I just got a 1250A that on a quick test > > performs at least as well as this 1210; I'll be doing a better test after > > it's had a chance to stabilize for another week or two.) > > > > It does appear that an awful lot of the 1210s went into various military > > applications; one of the few references I found on-line was to one of the > > PMEL (I think I got that acronym right) chat groups for the Air Force. > > > > John > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list > > time-nuts@febo.com > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list > > time-nuts@febo.com > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
PMEL is the correct term in the Air Force. It stands for Precision Meteorological Electronic Lab, it the branch of the Air Force that does test equipment calibration. The 1210D was standard test equipment for labs that did not have rubidiums and cesiums, which was quite a few. When I worked in satellite communications back in the late 70s, early 80s, I seen a lot of these units (1210D). We used HP cesium beams at the earth stations. These units were tracked back the USNO, and we used a modem to do time transfer over the air, to check the cesiums drift. The cal labs brought there 1210D's to our site about every 30 days to calibrate and sync the 1210s. Rob Kimberley wrote: > Hi John, > > Not heard that one before. It is always possible that there was some batch > selection, but unaware of this during my time (July '85 to Dec '88). > > Rob > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR > Sent: 09 March 2007 13:29 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update > > Rob Kimberley said the following on 03/09/2007 03:25 AM: >> John, >> >> The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice oscillator. I >> also believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US Navy for >> portable references to sync up Subs. > > Hi Rob -- > > I had heard mutterings that the 1150s that went into the 1210s weren't quite > as hand-picked as the ones that went into the 1250A standard, but this one > seems to be doing quite well. (I just got a 1250A that on a quick test > performs at least as well as this 1210; I'll be doing a better test after > it's had a chance to stabilize for another week or two.) > > It does appear that an awful lot of the 1210s went into various military > applications; one of the few references I found on-line was to one of the > PMEL (I think I got that acronym right) chat groups for the Air Force. > > John > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Hi John, Not heard that one before. It is always possible that there was some batch selection, but unaware of this during my time (July '85 to Dec '88). Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: 09 March 2007 13:29 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update Rob Kimberley said the following on 03/09/2007 03:25 AM: > John, > > The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice oscillator. I > also believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US Navy for > portable references to sync up Subs. Hi Rob -- I had heard mutterings that the 1150s that went into the 1210s weren't quite as hand-picked as the ones that went into the 1250A standard, but this one seems to be doing quite well. (I just got a 1250A that on a quick test performs at least as well as this 1210; I'll be doing a better test after it's had a chance to stabilize for another week or two.) It does appear that an awful lot of the 1210s went into various military applications; one of the few references I found on-line was to one of the PMEL (I think I got that acronym right) chat groups for the Air Force. John ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Ok, next time I'll have to use C Beam At 11:39 PM 3/8/2007, you wrote: >On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:33:13 -0800, Had <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >with a external Cb standard > >Cebidium? I assume its better than rubidium but not as good as cesium. >:-) > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list >time-nuts@febo.com >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Rob Kimberley said the following on 03/09/2007 03:25 AM: > John, > > The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice oscillator. I also > believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US Navy for portable > references to sync up Subs. Hi Rob -- I had heard mutterings that the 1150s that went into the 1210s weren't quite as hand-picked as the ones that went into the 1250A standard, but this one seems to be doing quite well. (I just got a 1250A that on a quick test performs at least as well as this 1210; I'll be doing a better test after it's had a chance to stabilize for another week or two.) It does appear that an awful lot of the 1210s went into various military applications; one of the few references I found on-line was to one of the PMEL (I think I got that acronym right) chat groups for the Air Force. John ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Interesting historical note - if you look at P37 of your scans, it shows a Sulzer 1150 OCXO. Austron acquired the OCXO product line from Sulzer, and continued to manufacture in house for several years. Austron then sold to Datum, Datum to Symmetricom. Chuck Norton I believe purchased the remaining stock, drawings and spares after Austron sold. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Had Sent: 09 March 2007 00:20 To: time-nuts-febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update Hey gang, For all you Austron Crystal Clock "nuts" out there that downloaded the manual that Rob provided (Thank You) I have scanned all 37 fold out drawings as full size, 11x17 (B size), scanned at 300dpi, monochrome images, using Acrobat Pro 7.05. They print out pretty nicely for me on a Minolta laser. They can be found at www.to-way.com A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
John, The unit shipped with Austron's 1150 OCXO - a VERY nice oscillator. I also believe that they sold a bunch of these units to the US Navy for portable references to sync up Subs. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: 09 March 2007 00:40 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update Thanks, Had! By the way, I'm doing a stability measurement of my 1210D right now, and it isn't bad at all -- it's in the 13s from tau 0.4 seconds out to a little beyond 1000 seconds. It bottoms out at 4.5x10e-13 at 100 seconds (and for all I know right now, that floor may be that of the reference oscillator, an FTS-1050A). Phase noise is better than -105dBc/Hz at 1 Hz offset. Not a bad oscillator! John Had said the following on 03/08/2007 07:20 PM: > > Hey gang, > > For all you Austron Crystal Clock "nuts" out there that downloaded the > manual that Rob provided (Thank You) I have scanned all 37 fold out > drawings as full size, 11x17 (B size), scanned at 300dpi, monochrome > images, using Acrobat Pro 7.05. They print out pretty nicely for me on > a Minolta laser. > > They can be found at www.to-way.com > > > > > > > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free > State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be > infringed. > > > > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential > information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is > protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should > delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this > message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:33:13 -0800, Had <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >with a external Cb standard Cebidium? I assume its better than rubidium but not as good as cesium. :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
No problem John, I've only had this 1210D since yesterday and have found that everything works except for the batteries of course. I have not had any time to do any real work with it. I have been watching it on and off this afternoon running into a SR620 with a external Cb standard and the 5MHz looks to be pretty solid. I have two 1210D-1's due to arrive mid next week. I know one of them needs work, so we shall see. I'd really like to have a self contained 10MHz transfer standard w/battery. I'm looking at a less expensive alternative to the high dollar "F" cell battery back. Two Canon camcorder batteries in series will give you 14.4V at 7000mAh. I think they will fit in the tray with room left over. BUT, they are LiON and I'll have to rework the charging circuit. Two eBay batteries cost about $28.00. Only an idea at this time. Had At 04:39 PM 3/8/2007, you wrote: >Thanks, Had! > >By the way, I'm doing a stability measurement of my 1210D right now, and >it isn't bad at all -- it's in the 13s from tau 0.4 seconds out to a >little beyond 1000 seconds. It bottoms out at 4.5x10e-13 at 100 seconds >(and for all I know right now, that floor may be that of the reference >oscillator, an FTS-1050A). Phase noise is better than -105dBc/Hz at 1 >Hz offset. > >Not a bad oscillator! > >John > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1210D Manual Update
Thanks, Had! By the way, I'm doing a stability measurement of my 1210D right now, and it isn't bad at all -- it's in the 13s from tau 0.4 seconds out to a little beyond 1000 seconds. It bottoms out at 4.5x10e-13 at 100 seconds (and for all I know right now, that floor may be that of the reference oscillator, an FTS-1050A). Phase noise is better than -105dBc/Hz at 1 Hz offset. Not a bad oscillator! John Had said the following on 03/08/2007 07:20 PM: > > Hey gang, > > For all you Austron Crystal Clock "nuts" out there that downloaded > the manual that Rob provided (Thank You) I have scanned all 37 fold > out drawings as full size, 11x17 (B size), scanned at 300dpi, > monochrome images, using Acrobat Pro 7.05. They print out pretty > nicely for me on a Minolta laser. > > They can be found at www.to-way.com > > > > > > > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free > State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be > infringed. > > > > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential > information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is > protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should > delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this > message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
