Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
At 08:50 AM 2/19/2011, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Imagine a board with EPROM + ARM chip w/USB interface... HP5370B with built in allan-variance calculation, anyone ? No, I don't have the time, but if I had... I've had similar (like maybe a Luminary ARM + ethernet) thoughts. I wasn't sure if the firmware was simple enough to be re-written so that the entire CPU section could be replaced. Were you thinking emulation of the existing code, or a clean sheet re-implementation? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <920772.7182...@smtp103.prem.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, Scott Newell writes: >At 08:50 AM 2/19/2011, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >I've had similar (like maybe a Luminary ARM + ethernet) thoughts. I >wasn't sure if the firmware was simple enough to be re-written so >that the entire CPU section could be replaced. I have far from made any plans, it's only "If I landed on a desert island with only my entire lab and plenty of time" kind of musings :-) I guess it depends on the spirit of the project how you would do it, from adding an ekstra EPROM and using the M6800 to add a bit of steampunk features or to replacing the entire CPU board and modernize the instrument. The firmware is pretty approachable, it is only 8KB code and I am pretty sure a cortex3 could emulate it in real time if it came to that. Since the image is static, it would be trivial to write a m6800->C converter and compile the image for any CPU you cared for. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
>>I've had similar (like maybe a Luminary ARM + ethernet) thoughts. I >>wasn't sure if the firmware was simple enough to be re-written so >>that the entire CPU section could be replaced. >From reasonable ignorance, would a device like the Parallax propeller do the job? I have a couple of 5370 A models here... Don -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <11df8bbd5d5941b0d47d4afe0321a8a8.squir...@webmail.montana.com>, "Do n Latham" writes: >>From reasonable ignorance, would a device like the Parallax propeller do >>From reasonable ignorance, would a device like the Parallax propeller do >the job? I have a couple of 5370 A models here... I don't know the Propeller well enough, but I would doubt it, -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
My this would be quite a task to reverse engineer. Though only 8K of eprom I suspect its cleverly coded. But since this is a desert island kind of discussion here are my 2 cents. (Truly the value) The propellers are parallel processors. Sort of the Basic stamp2 for parallel processing. They are fast, much faster then the 6800s. But I don't think this is really a parallel challenge since the software was written for serial processing. Now for my really cheezy 2 cents. I would do it in Basic on a SXb most likely the SX48 not that you need the IO. Thats handy but far more instruction space. Cycle time of a simple bit on off command at 70 Mhz is 200ns. Increasing instructions do not seem to add a lot and you can directly get into the assembly language and go as deep as you care to. So its quite speedy and does also have interrupt capability. At a cost of $3-4 each its nothing to use several for different apps like the front panel display and keys, control for actual counting and finally a third for ethernet or GPIB. (Maybe I will get to that one day) But really the key to any of this would be the accurate decoding of the existing software. Though HP service docs are somewhat useful in this approach for the 5370 vintage. At least you tend to be able to understand what IO does what. For me since the 3 5370s are working, I won't be hacking them anytime soon. Like'em the way they are. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <11df8bbd5d5941b0d47d4afe0321a8a8.squir...@webmail.montana.com>, > "Do > n Latham" writes: > > >>From reasonable ignorance, would a device like the Parallax propeller do > >>From reasonable ignorance, would a device like the Parallax propeller do > >the job? I have a couple of 5370 A models here... > > I don't know the Propeller well enough, but I would doubt it, > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message , paul swed writes: >Though only 8K of eprom I suspect its cleverly coded. It's not really that bad. There has clearly been somebody there to pound structure into the result, and there is very little evidence of code-bumming. >So its quite speedy and does also have interrupt capability. At a cost of >$3-4 each its nothing to use several for different apps like the front panel >display and keys, control for actual counting and finally a third for >ethernet or GPIB. (Maybe I will get to that one day) Well, all the existing I/O shares the same 16A8D databus, and there is hardly anything gained from having multiple processors fight for that bus. The I/O is also very much built to reduce CPU work, the display/leds are self refreshing, the GPIB has its own ROM based state-machine etc. >But really the key to any of this would be the accurate decoding of the >existing software. I have 303 bytes undecoded right now, 256 of these is a table which I suspect is related to floating point squareroots, and a fair number of the rest are padding. As I said it is quite structured. It is a total no-brainer if you executed it by emulating a M6800, and only intercepted a few places to add features. >Though HP service docs are somewhat useful in this approach for the 5370 >vintage. At least you tend to be able to understand what IO does what. The HP5370B is actually very good in that respect, I have been able to figure out all the I/O that way. >For me since the 3 5370s are working, I won't be hacking them anytime soon. >Like'em the way they are. Now, that's the other part: It is a very good instrument. The only feature I have been able to dream up yet is a digital clock, and only because that is sort of the default for anything with a display. But it could be interesting to see what the hardware can do with sufficient CPU resouces, because right now it is clearly CPU-limited. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Start with replacing the existing board with something new. Step 2, add a USB interface. Step 3, world domination! Ok, maybe not so much with the last one... On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , > paul > swed writes: > >>Though only 8K of eprom I suspect its cleverly coded. > > It's not really that bad. There has clearly been somebody there to pound > structure into the result, and there is very little evidence of code-bumming. > >>So its quite speedy and does also have interrupt capability. At a cost of >>$3-4 each its nothing to use several for different apps like the front panel >>display and keys, control for actual counting and finally a third for >>ethernet or GPIB. (Maybe I will get to that one day) > > Well, all the existing I/O shares the same 16A8D databus, and there > is hardly anything gained from having multiple processors fight for > that bus. > > The I/O is also very much built to reduce CPU work, the display/leds > are self refreshing, the GPIB has its own ROM based state-machine etc. > >>But really the key to any of this would be the accurate decoding of the >>existing software. > > I have 303 bytes undecoded right now, 256 of these is a table which > I suspect is related to floating point squareroots, and a fair > number of the rest are padding. As I said it is quite structured. > > It is a total no-brainer if you executed it by emulating a > M6800, and only intercepted a few places to add features. > >>Though HP service docs are somewhat useful in this approach for the 5370 >>vintage. At least you tend to be able to understand what IO does what. > > The HP5370B is actually very good in that respect, I have been able to > figure out all the I/O that way. > >>For me since the 3 5370s are working, I won't be hacking them anytime soon. >>Like'em the way they are. > > Now, that's the other part: It is a very good instrument. > > The only feature I have been able to dream up yet is a digital > clock, and only because that is sort of the default for anything > with a display. > > But it could be interesting to see what the hardware can do with > sufficient CPU resouces, because right now it is clearly CPU-limited. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Is the CPU strictly an I/O machine or does it do any of the timing for the counter? If it's just I/O then indeed, replacing it would be a reasonable task. -Original Message- From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 3:21 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B In message , paul swed writes: Though only 8K of eprom I suspect its cleverly coded. It's not really that bad. There has clearly been somebody there to pound structure into the result, and there is very little evidence of code-bumming. So its quite speedy and does also have interrupt capability. At a cost of $3-4 each its nothing to use several for different apps like the front panel display and keys, control for actual counting and finally a third for ethernet or GPIB. (Maybe I will get to that one day) Well, all the existing I/O shares the same 16A8D databus, and there is hardly anything gained from having multiple processors fight for that bus. The I/O is also very much built to reduce CPU work, the display/leds are self refreshing, the GPIB has its own ROM based state-machine etc. But really the key to any of this would be the accurate decoding of the existing software. I have 303 bytes undecoded right now, 256 of these is a table which I suspect is related to floating point squareroots, and a fair number of the rest are padding. As I said it is quite structured. It is a total no-brainer if you executed it by emulating a M6800, and only intercepted a few places to add features. Though HP service docs are somewhat useful in this approach for the 5370 vintage. At least you tend to be able to understand what IO does what. The HP5370B is actually very good in that respect, I have been able to figure out all the I/O that way. For me since the 3 5370s are working, I won't be hacking them anytime soon. Like'em the way they are. Now, that's the other part: It is a very good instrument. The only feature I have been able to dream up yet is a digital clock, and only because that is sort of the default for anything with a display. But it could be interesting to see what the hardware can do with sufficient CPU resouces, because right now it is clearly CPU-limited. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <466fdfc184a3469eac08eee5ee36c...@hm.clpa.com>, "Bob Camp" writes: >Is the CPU strictly an I/O machine or does it do any of the timing for the >counter? All the counting is hardware. Basically the CPU arms, waits, reads registers, does math, puts on display and sends display over GPIB if asked to. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message<466fdfc184a3469eac08eee5ee36c...@hm.clpa.com>, "Bob Camp" writes: Is the CPU strictly an I/O machine or does it do any of the timing for the counter? All the counting is hardware. Not so for the 5370A (was this changed for the 5370B?), the 16 bit N0 counter length is extended in software when and if required. Basically the CPU arms, waits, reads registers, does math, puts on display and sends display over GPIB if asked to. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
I've been looking at this a bit recently. Pictures here: http://jks.com I run the 5370 firmware on an m6800 emulator written in C running on a Linux box. Reads and writes to I/O space are caught and executed on the 5370 hardware via an interface board hooked up to the m6800 processor bus. This interface board is a cheap USB to 32-bit parallel adapter card (Dimax sub-20). I used an evaluation board for the Analog Devices ADuM4160 USB power/signal isolator chip. The next step is to move everything to a microcontroller (e.g. SAM7X) on a card that replaces the processor board completely. As has been mentioned you can do all sorts of crazy, and perhaps useful, stuff at this point. ~~~ I have a question about the dead time of the 5370. Can it be eliminated with a fast enough processor, buffering, interface, etc. or is it intrinsic to the measurement hardware itself? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
John Seamons wrote: I've been looking at this a bit recently. Pictures here: http://jks.com I run the 5370 firmware on an m6800 emulator written in C running on a Linux box. Reads and writes to I/O space are caught and executed on the 5370 hardware via an interface board hooked up to the m6800 processor bus. This interface board is a cheap USB to 32-bit parallel adapter card (Dimax sub-20). I used an evaluation board for the Analog Devices ADuM4160 USB power/signal isolator chip. The next step is to move everything to a microcontroller (e.g. SAM7X) on a card that replaces the processor board completely. As has been mentioned you can do all sorts of crazy, and perhaps useful, stuff at this point. ~~~ I have a question about the dead time of the 5370. Can it be eliminated with a fast enough processor, buffering, interface, etc. or is it intrinsic to the measurement hardware itself? No, not without extensive redesign of the counter chain. There are no latches for the counters they have to be frozen for readout. The counters themselves can easily be replaced by an FPGA used together with the interpolators. However if one triggers the interpolators too rapidly they never have time to phase lock. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
> I've been looking at this a bit recently. > Pictures here: http://jks.com Cool as heck! > The next step is to move everything to a microcontroller (e.g. > SAM7X) on a card that replaces the processor board completely. > As has been mentioned you can do all sorts of crazy, and perhaps > useful, stuff at this point. Have you tried going through the various checkout procedures in the manual to make sure they all still work? If the 5370 firmware authors *didn't* bake some timing dependencies into that 6800 code, they were the exception. Of course, if your emulator is cycle-for-cycle faithful to the 6800 it's all good. > I have a question about the dead time of the 5370. > Can it be eliminated with a fast enough processor, buffering, > interface, etc. or is it intrinsic to the measurement hardware itself? Short answer: when fidelity matters, use it in TI mode, not frequency or period mode. There will be no dead time in TI mode, and you'll get better precision as well. You can still get frequency readings if you want, by using host software to differentiate the phase values (TimeLab makes this relatively easy). I don't know if it would be possible to make zero-dead-time frequency measurements with firmware mods only. I doubt it could be done without a lot of effort that could better be applied elsewhere. -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <5eed908f-6a51-4447-b433-84b0e0fdd...@jks.com>, John Seamons writes: >I've been looking at this a bit recently. >Pictures here: http://jks.com Kudos for that picture :-) >I have a question about the dead time of the 5370. >Can it be eliminated with a fast enough processor, buffering, >interface, etc. or is it intrinsic to the measurement hardware >itself? That is a very good question. The first issue is that I pressume the two startable oscillators needs to have some time in the PLL state to stay on frequency, but I have no idea how much time/duty-cycle is required. The second part is that you only have one N0 counter and presumably you would need two to ping-pong between the two inputs. Poul-Henning PS: let me know if there is anything I can tell you about the firmware. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <4d61de84.3050...@xtra.co.nz>, Bruce Griffiths writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> In message<466fdfc184a3469eac08eee5ee36c...@hm.clpa.com>, "Bob Camp" writes: >> >> >>> Is the CPU strictly an I/O machine or does it do any of the timing for the >>> counter? >>> >> All the counting is hardware. >> >Not so for the 5370A (was this changed for the 5370B?), the 16 bit N0 >counter length is extended in software when and if required. Yes, but that is a rather low frequency deal, I wouldn't call that timecritical at all. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
El 21/02/2011 05:55, John Seamons escribió: The next step is to move everything to a microcontroller (e.g. SAM7X) on a card that replaces the processor board completely. Perhaps an AT91SAM7SE512 - it has an external addr/data bus, with quite flexible configuration, and USB - but no Ethernet :) Regards, Javier -- Javier HerreroEMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
At 10:55 PM 2/20/2011, John Seamons wrote: I've been looking at this a bit recently. Pictures here: http://jks.com Wow! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Would be frightening if the message were "Hello Dave..." El 21/02/2011 15:46, Scott Newell escribió: At 10:55 PM 2/20/2011, John Seamons wrote: I've been looking at this a bit recently. Pictures here: http://jks.com Wow! -- Javier HerreroEMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
> Have you tried going through the various checkout procedures in the manual > to make sure they all still work? If the 5370 firmware authors *didn't* > bake some timing dependencies into that 6800 code, they were the exception. > Of course, if your emulator is cycle-for-cycle faithful to the 6800 it's all > good. > -- john, KE5FX Most of the front panel functions I tried worked. But not all. It's possible that the m6800 emulator is not bug-free. I just used one that I found on the net. I have not checked it. Yes, then there are the timing issues. When I first ran the code, and printed every instruction executed, it was clear after a while that a timing loop was running. Now whether this delay is critical to a measurement function or not is unknown to me. Although Poul-Henning can probably tell us with his reverse engineering of the code. Since that poor m6800 is only running at 1.5 MHz you would think that the emulator running on a modern machine would have no problem running many times faster than that. Unfortunately the software stack and USB delays when using that USB-to-parallel adapter in my setup causes everything to run many times -slower- than 1.5 MHz when any I/O is going on. The TI and frequency measurement functions work fine. The slowest effect I noticed is changing the trigger levels. The display update lags by 20 sec or so. Now using a microcontroller with direct bus access is another story. You can clock it from the 5370 10 MHz and use an internal timer to generate the 1.5 MHz bus clock. Then the emulator, now running much faster than the m6800, can count emulated cycles and schedule I/O at the exact time it would have occurred at 1.5 MHz. I will try some more complete testing. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
> Perhaps an AT91SAM7SE512 - it has an external addr/data bus, with quite > flexible configuration, and USB - but no Ethernet :) > Regards, > Javier One thing I like about the SAM7X512 (and others) is that in exchange for giving up the external bus interface you get USB -and- Ethernet. The m6800 A16/D8 bus is so simple and slow you can bit bang it using GPIO. Plus in these parts there is plenty of flash and SRAM (512K/128K) so no external memory is needed. It's bad enough to have to solder a single LQFP-100.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message , John Seamons writes: >Yes, then there are the timing issues. When I first ran the code, >and printed every instruction executed, it was clear after a while >that a timing loop was running. Now whether this delay is critical >to a measurement function or not is unknown to me. Now, when I said "not critical" it was in the context of using a different processor, not of controlling the hardware via registered mail... :-) The USB link you use is adding a lot more latency than a directly attached microcontroller would suffer. Those of you wanting to look at the firmware can use the "PyRevEng" project I have made on github. You just need a HP5370B rom image (google is your friend, if your memory fails you) and a python runtime and you're all set. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message , John Seamons writes: > It's bad enough to have to solder a single LQFP-100.. Why even try ? There are plenty of good eval boards from olimex.com (sparkfun.com in the USA) And yes, the HP5370B bus can probably be bitbanged just fine. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
That is true, the SAM7X... are very nice. I currently use them a lot (mainly for its CAN bus). The bad thing is that they have Ethernet but no phy, so an external phy must be used. In that respect, for an application using Ethernet I would use a Luminary, that has both MAC & PHY on-chip and only needs the magnetics (and USB, and CAN, and whatever...), even nice development kits with lot of GPIO accesibles in 0.1" spaced pads, so no need to solder the LQFP :) , like this http://es.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/EKC-LM3S9B92/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvu0Nwh4cA1wQrEqqirqo8z34F54zcDRdU%3d I suppose that the bus can be attacked by GPIO... but if Ethernet is not needed, I would prefer to not bother too much and have it nicely memory-mapped as in a 7SE512 :) that also is 128-pin instead of 100, but equally easy (or difficult) to solder. But what I would really do is to use my embedded Blackfin processor board, with uClinux, a touch panel and graphical display, and... well, that if I would have the time available, and a second 5370 available :) Regards, Javier El 21/02/2011 18:21, John Seamons escribió: Perhaps an AT91SAM7SE512 - it has an external addr/data bus, with quite flexible configuration, and USB - but no Ethernet :) Regards, Javier One thing I like about the SAM7X512 (and others) is that in exchange for giving up the external bus interface you get USB -and- Ethernet. The m6800 A16/D8 bus is so simple and slow you can bit bang it using GPIO. Plus in these parts there is plenty of flash and SRAM (512K/128K) so no external memory is needed. It's bad enough to have to solder a single LQFP-100.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Javier HerreroEMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
On Feb 21, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , John Seamons > writes: > >> It's bad enough to have to solder a single LQFP-100.. > > Why even try ? There are plenty of good eval boards from olimex.com > (sparkfun.com in the USA) > > And yes, the HP5370B bus can probably be bitbanged just fine. > > Poul-Henning For prototyping I agree. I was thinking more about the difficulty of producing a low-cost, low-volume replacement board (assuming there are any takers) By low-cost I'm thinking under $100 (hopefully this is also less than the original 5370 purchase price) On Feb 21, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Javier Herrero wrote: > That is true, the SAM7X... are very nice. ... The bad thing is that they have > Ethernet but no phy, so an external phy must be used. > In that respect, for an application using Ethernet I would use a Luminary, > that has both MAC & PHY on-chip and only needs the magnetic ... > Regards, > > Javier I didn't know the Luminary parts had a phy. Nice. Except for development boards ($100) the chips ($10) seem to be unobtainium at the moment. Although that will change. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
On 2/20/11 8:55 PM, John Seamons wrote: I've been looking at this a bit recently. Pictures here: http://jks.com I *am* impressed... And what a coincidence that phk's name can be adequately done on a 7 segment display (or did he have particularly clever parents?... I can only do one of my children's names on 7 segs.. ) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
That is true, the SAM7X... are very nice. ... The bad thing is that they have Ethernet but no phy, so an external phy must be used. In that respect, for an application using Ethernet I would use a Luminary, that has both MAC& PHY on-chip and only needs the magnetic ... Regards, Javier I didn't know the Luminary parts had a phy. Nice. Except for development boards ($100) the chips ($10) seem to be unobtainium at the moment. Although that will change. John Yes, the most interesting ones seems so. I also hope that this will change... I expect to use them shortly :) A lot of them are readily available, particularly the LM3S8962 with Ethernet but no USB. But the nicer ones, LM3S9B92 and LM3S9B96, seems are not so. I've played around a bit with (less than I would like) with the LM3S9B92 and the LM3S8962, and seems quite good, but not yet used them in a real design. BTW the LQFP-100 are not very hard to get hand-soldered, once you get used to :) Regards, Javier -- Javier HerreroEMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Well the hard part (or maybe the fun part) is still to come. I wasn't going to talk about any of this until I had a board to sell, but this thread sort of forced the issue, lol. On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:14 PM, jimlux wrote: > On 2/20/11 8:55 PM, John Seamons wrote: >> I've been looking at this a bit recently. >> Pictures here: http://jks.com >> > > I *am* impressed... > And what a coincidence that phk's name can be adequately done on a 7 segment > display (or did he have particularly clever parents?... I can only do one of > my children's names on 7 segs.. ) > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
In message <4d62b98e.5070...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes: >On 2/20/11 8:55 PM, John Seamons wrote: >> I've been looking at this a bit recently. >> Pictures here: http://jks.com >> > >I *am* impressed... >And what a coincidence that phk's name can be adequately done on a 7 >segment display (or did he have particularly clever parents?... I can confidently say that my mom had not even heard about, much less seen a seven segment display at the time I was born. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Hi Well now that you are committed to the project, it's time for the wish list: 1) Make the beast easier to calibrate and keep in calibration. 2) Improve the accuracy. 100) Add cool features like Avar. The 5370 dates to a period when the idea of software based calibration was a bit "out of the box". Weather anything can be done purely in code or not - no idea. You don't have all the hooks and fiddlers that a more modern box would have. Anything that helped out on items 1 and 2 would make a swap out worth it. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Seamons Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:24 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B Well the hard part (or maybe the fun part) is still to come. I wasn't going to talk about any of this until I had a board to sell, but this thread sort of forced the issue, lol. On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:14 PM, jimlux wrote: > On 2/20/11 8:55 PM, John Seamons wrote: >> I've been looking at this a bit recently. >> Pictures here: http://jks.com >> > > I *am* impressed... > And what a coincidence that phk's name can be adequately done on a 7 segment display (or did he have particularly clever parents?... I can only do one of my children's names on 7 segs.. ) > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
Hi! On 02/22/2011 06:29 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Well now that you are committed to the project, it's time for the wish list: 1) Make the beast easier to calibrate and keep in calibration. 2) Improve the accuracy. 100) Add cool features like Avar. The 5370 dates to a period when the idea of software based calibration was a bit "out of the box". Weather anything can be done purely in code or not - no idea. You don't have all the hooks and fiddlers that a more modern box would have. Anything that helped out on items 1 and 2 would make a swap out worth it. Avar isn't all that complex and fantastic. It was done ehm... in the 80ties... (TS105A - using the whoppa-tronic 6502 for real-time calculations for up to 4 tau-values). One thing which I have found very useful in instruments like HP4195A is a built-in language. It beats the (still very handy) math processings. Basic, forth or Lua... as long as it is simple to edit and cook-up programms/apps/macros/scripts. It doesn't have to be very fast, but keeping up with PPS for moderate complex stuff and say 10-100 Hz for quicker stuff would be handy. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
I hope this can be designed to work on the 5370A as well! Thanks, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rom Expansion for HP5370B
At 02:25 PM 2/22/2011, Bert, VE2ZAZ wrote... I hope this can be designed to work on the 5370A as well! They're the same, only different. :-) The major difference with the "B" was to the front end, which has no impact on software. I'm running "B" firmware on my "A." ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
