Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
Jerry you are right. See what it does on the original oscillator and match it. With respect to advancing you can't go to crazy as the unit will stutter. I want today I can advance the clocks I have at about 15 sec for 1 minute. Maybe faster. Anarduino will be very fine for what you are doing. On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 6:33 PM Jerry Hancock wrote: > I’ll have to go read about the Lord Vetinari clock. He is one of my > favorite book characters. > > Thanks for all the tips. I might have an old quartz clock around here to > test. I assume I can just measure the pulse while it is running and > generate the same with the 1PPS output. I’ll have to program a way to > advance it, maybe use an Arduino or some other micro and add a few switches. > > > > > On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Philip Gladstone < > pjsg-timen...@nospam.gladstonefamily.net> wrote: > > > > It depends on how much work you want to do. I have various clocks driven > > off 1PPS (or 2PPS) signals. The cheapest approach is to take almost any > > quartz clock with a second hand and drive the coil directly (you need to > > pulse with alternate polarities -- i.e. there are even and odd pulses). > > > > I was introduced to this technique by building a Lord Vetinari clock > (e.g. > > https://www.instructables.com/id/Lord-Vetinari-Clock/ ) > > > > I purchased something like > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-INCH-KAPPA-SHIPS-BOAT-YACHT-MARINE-RADIO-ROOM-SLAVE-NAVIGATION-CLOCK/143072681993?hash=item214fcbe009:g:Gn8AAOSwYTtcKPIp > > and > > it turned out to be a 2PPS clock > > > > Fun getting this stuff working! > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:32 PM Jerry Hancock wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input > >> signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules > using a > >> lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so > with a > >> second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, > >> etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I > can > >> drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that > route. > >> > >> Signal levels aren’t important. > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Jerry > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > Jerry Hancock > je...@hanler.com > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
I recall using a clock like that. I drove the coil with a 5v cmos type D flipflop. The coil is hooked to q and ~q with a couple of resistors. That way you get the reversal of voltage with little fuss. Don On 2020-01-02 16:32, Jerry Hancock wrote: I’ll have to go read about the Lord Vetinari clock. He is one of my favorite book characters. Thanks for all the tips. I might have an old quartz clock around here to test. I assume I can just measure the pulse while it is running and generate the same with the 1PPS output. I’ll have to program a way to advance it, maybe use an Arduino or some other micro and add a few switches. On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Philip Gladstone wrote: It depends on how much work you want to do. I have various clocks driven off 1PPS (or 2PPS) signals. The cheapest approach is to take almost any quartz clock with a second hand and drive the coil directly (you need to pulse with alternate polarities -- i.e. there are even and odd pulses). I was introduced to this technique by building a Lord Vetinari clock (e.g. https://www.instructables.com/id/Lord-Vetinari-Clock/ ) I purchased something like https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-INCH-KAPPA-SHIPS-BOAT-YACHT-MARINE-RADIO-ROOM-SLAVE-NAVIGATION-CLOCK/143072681993?hash=item214fcbe009:g:Gn8AAOSwYTtcKPIp and it turned out to be a 2PPS clock Fun getting this stuff working! On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:32 PM Jerry Hancock wrote: Hello, I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. Signal levels aren’t important. Thanks Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. Jerry Hancock je...@hanler.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834 VOX: 406-626-4304 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bob Roehrig K9EUI SK
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Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
I’ll have to go read about the Lord Vetinari clock. He is one of my favorite book characters. Thanks for all the tips. I might have an old quartz clock around here to test. I assume I can just measure the pulse while it is running and generate the same with the 1PPS output. I’ll have to program a way to advance it, maybe use an Arduino or some other micro and add a few switches. > On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Philip Gladstone > wrote: > > It depends on how much work you want to do. I have various clocks driven > off 1PPS (or 2PPS) signals. The cheapest approach is to take almost any > quartz clock with a second hand and drive the coil directly (you need to > pulse with alternate polarities -- i.e. there are even and odd pulses). > > I was introduced to this technique by building a Lord Vetinari clock (e.g. > https://www.instructables.com/id/Lord-Vetinari-Clock/ ) > > I purchased something like > https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-INCH-KAPPA-SHIPS-BOAT-YACHT-MARINE-RADIO-ROOM-SLAVE-NAVIGATION-CLOCK/143072681993?hash=item214fcbe009:g:Gn8AAOSwYTtcKPIp > and > it turned out to be a 2PPS clock > > Fun getting this stuff working! > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:32 PM Jerry Hancock wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input >> signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a >> lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a >> second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, >> etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can >> drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. >> >> Signal levels aren’t important. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jerry >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. Jerry Hancock je...@hanler.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
I have also solved the same problem I have 4 Seth Thomas quartz clocks with the red 24 numbers in the display driven by a single driver with independent advance and hold for each clock. (Needed for multiple time zones) Generally reasonably quite. As mentioned they must be driven at a alternating rate. These were quartz clocks and simply drop the electronics out and keep the coil. Then have fun. The clocks were purchased at a bargain store for little and picked up a 5th as a spare. Do not recall if there were anymore left. If there had been I would have purchased them 10 years ago. Have been on the hunt and have not seen anymore. Also tried to obtain replacement clock motors on the internet. But the first purchase was not correct do not recall what it was but it was not a by-phase motor. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:46 PM xaos wrote: > Jerry, > > The Chinese NTP server that I've been discussing here lately has outputs > for 1PPS, 1PPM and 1PPH. > > The plain vanilla NTP server (no 10MHz.) goes for 150-200. > > George, N2FGX > > On 1/2/2020 13:21, Jerry Hancock wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input > signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a > lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a > second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, > etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can > drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. > > > > Signal levels aren’t important. > > > > Thanks > > > > Jerry > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
Jerry, The Chinese NTP server that I've been discussing here lately has outputs for 1PPS, 1PPM and 1PPH. The plain vanilla NTP server (no 10MHz.) goes for 150-200. George, N2FGX On 1/2/2020 13:21, Jerry Hancock wrote: Hello, I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. Signal levels aren’t important. Thanks Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
It depends on how much work you want to do. I have various clocks driven off 1PPS (or 2PPS) signals. The cheapest approach is to take almost any quartz clock with a second hand and drive the coil directly (you need to pulse with alternate polarities -- i.e. there are even and odd pulses). I was introduced to this technique by building a Lord Vetinari clock (e.g. https://www.instructables.com/id/Lord-Vetinari-Clock/ ) I purchased something like https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-INCH-KAPPA-SHIPS-BOAT-YACHT-MARINE-RADIO-ROOM-SLAVE-NAVIGATION-CLOCK/143072681993?hash=item214fcbe009:g:Gn8AAOSwYTtcKPIp and it turned out to be a 2PPS clock Fun getting this stuff working! On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:32 PM Jerry Hancock wrote: > Hello, > > I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input > signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a > lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a > second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, > etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can > drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. > > Signal levels aren’t important. > > Thanks > > Jerry > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Bob Roehrig K9EUI SK
Services for our fallen fellow time nut Bob Roehrig are this Saturday January 4, in Batavia, IL. Bob was a member of this list, and many of you may remember him from articles and projects published in 73 Magazine (and others) such as 1994's "Using the World's Most Accurate Frequency Standard" which in great detail he walked through building a WWVB receiver/comparator. He was a brilliant builder and hardly owned a single piece of amateur radio equipment that he didn't build from scratch, or modify. http://www.mossfuneral.com/obituaries/details/2589/Regards,Chris FarleySent via wireless apparatus _._ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
I don't know of one available commercially, but it would not be hard to modify a standard quartz clock to do this. The standard quartz mechanism uses a motor that advances the seconds hand one second each time a pulse is applied to it. The catch is that every other pulse has to be the opposite polarity. A simple circuit consisting of a single D flip-flop could be constructed to provide this alternating phase functionality. Matthew Sent from Matthew D'Asaro's iPhone > On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Jerry Hancock wrote: > > Hello, > > I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input > signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a > lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a > second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, etc > I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can drive > with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. > > Signal levels aren’t important. > > Thanks > > Jerry > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Wall Clock that takes 1PPS input
Hello, I looked around but can’t find a wall clock that would take a 1PPS input signal to drive the minutes and seconds. I’ve made digital modules using a lot of different displays but would love to have a large, 14” or so with a second hand, wall clock that I can drive with 1PPS. The old IBM clocks, etc I found take a pulse on the minute. I have an old pendulum clock I can drive with a solenoid but thought I would ask here before going that route. Signal levels aren’t important. Thanks Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Microstepper
Hi, Many thanks for those references. Downloaded and stored for future reference and reading. Check out US4358741 and US4417352. Cheers, Magnus On 2020-01-02 18:10, Anders Wallin wrote: > fwiw, looks like the spectradynamics patent expired today: > https://patents.google.com/patent/US6278330B1/en > afaik that design (more or less) is also described in > https://doi.org/10.1109/FREQ.1998.717932 > a variation is also https://doi.org/10.1109/EFTF.2012.6502322 (which might > be sold by http://www.skk.it/index.htm - but that website is a bit > spartan..) > (if anyone knows more micro-stepper papers, please post!) > > my plan is to present our DIY version of this, an open hardware design, at > EFTF2020. > we have two AD9912:s clocked at 1GHz (derived from the maser) producing two > LO's that drive a mixer-board that locks an OCXO that feeds a PICDIV. > > Anders > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Microstepper
fwiw, looks like the spectradynamics patent expired today: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6278330B1/en afaik that design (more or less) is also described in https://doi.org/10.1109/FREQ.1998.717932 a variation is also https://doi.org/10.1109/EFTF.2012.6502322 (which might be sold by http://www.skk.it/index.htm - but that website is a bit spartan..) (if anyone knows more micro-stepper papers, please post!) my plan is to present our DIY version of this, an open hardware design, at EFTF2020. we have two AD9912:s clocked at 1GHz (derived from the maser) producing two LO's that drive a mixer-board that locks an OCXO that feeds a PICDIV. Anders > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PLL suggestions
Hi Dan, I would use a pair of dividers to get them to the common frequency of 5 MHz, so divide by 2 and 25, then use a SR flip-flop and then feed it to an op-amp doing a PI-loop. Be sure to make it well damped, so a damping factor of 3 or more. The bandwidth of the loop should be relatively high. I've brute-forced it worse than this and it's been good enough for gigabit links beyond what you are making. The needed components can be taken from fairly standard series, and then nothing special about the components and sizes and you will be just fine. As long as one has sufficiently good jitter from the 125 MHz VCXO you should be able to do it. For systems like these I assume that the last step has neglible jitter suppression, but it is relatively easy to find reference oscillators with sufficiently low jitter. Assuming we talk gigabit-link, then for bit error rate below 1E-12, we need the jitter to be 1/14 of the symbol period, which in this case is 320 ps, so 23 ps RMS, and well that is not so hard to meet on the reference these days. Also, the last synthesis step will improve jitter anyway. So, I do not think you need to do anything fancy to achieve the goal as far as I have understood your requirements. What I sketch above is fairly straight-forward to try out. It takes a small handful of COTS chips, but nothing that really eats board-space these days or will be hard to source. Cheers, Magnus On 2020-01-02 15:26, Dan Kemppainen wrote: > Hi All, > > Just to clarify, the PLL we're looking for only needs to do the 10 -> > 125MHz. The 125 ->MHz 3.125GHz is in a separate device with it's own > PLL. I have some, but not a lot of control over that. The goal here is > to provide a good source for the 125Mhz, for not a lot of board space > and not a lot of BOM cost. > > Again, I apologize as this is a bit vague. Basically we're trying to > provide a "as good as reasonably possible" 125Mhz source from a VCXO, > in a relatively small (1 to 2 sq inches) board space, for not a lot of > cost ($25 to $50 range). > > Anyway, There have been some good suggestions here, and a few off line > also. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PLL suggestions
Hi A low phase noise VCXO is going to be up in the vicinity of $20. An MCU that will do the loading stuff is in the << $1 range. BOM wise, the MCU is round off error. Code wise, the firmware is “high school project” level stuff. Bob > On Jan 2, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Dan Kemppainen wrote: > > Hi All, > > Just to clarify, the PLL we're looking for only needs to do the 10 -> 125MHz. > The 125 ->MHz 3.125GHz is in a separate device with it's own PLL. I have > some, but not a lot of control over that. The goal here is to provide a good > source for the 125Mhz, for not a lot of board space and not a lot of BOM cost. > > Again, I apologize as this is a bit vague. Basically we're trying to provide > a "as good as reasonably possible" 125Mhz source from a VCXO, in a relatively > small (1 to 2 sq inches) board space, for not a lot of cost ($25 to $50 > range). > > Anyway, There have been some good suggestions here, and a few off line also. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PLL suggestions
Hi All, Just to clarify, the PLL we're looking for only needs to do the 10 -> 125MHz. The 125 ->MHz 3.125GHz is in a separate device with it's own PLL. I have some, but not a lot of control over that. The goal here is to provide a good source for the 125Mhz, for not a lot of board space and not a lot of BOM cost. Again, I apologize as this is a bit vague. Basically we're trying to provide a "as good as reasonably possible" 125Mhz source from a VCXO, in a relatively small (1 to 2 sq inches) board space, for not a lot of cost ($25 to $50 range). Anyway, There have been some good suggestions here, and a few off line also. Thanks! Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
