[time-nuts] HP5065A fs

[timeok]

   Fs an HP5065A, the best ribidium ever produced on the market. In perfect 
condition with digital clock, complete with power cord. Xtal 00105.

   Electrolytic capacitors replaced, otherwise in original condition.

   1450.oo € shipping included Central Europe, for other countries to check the 
costs. Guaranteed excellent packaging.

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timok.it
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[time-nuts] Re: Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input

[timeok]

   you can use this:

   
http://www.timeok.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/high-performance-frequency-doublerv1-31.pdf

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "Matt Huszagh" huszaghm...@gmail.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Sun, 28 Nov 2021 19:29:58 -0800
   Oggetto [time-nuts] Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 
MHz signal from 5 MHz input
   Hi,

   I've got a 10 MHz distribution amplifier and am considering purchasing a
   5 MHz reference. Most (not all) of my equipment accepts a 5 MHz
   reference, but I'd like to be able to use the existing distribution
   amplifier I have if possible. Therefore, I'm considering ways I might
   generate a low-noise 10 MHz signal from the 5 MHz reference.

   An obvious way is to use a doubler. However, as I understand it, even an
   ideal doubler will add 20log(2)=6 dB of phase noise to the 10 MHz
   signal. It seems like a possibly more expensive, but lower noise way
   would be to use a PLL with a divider that locks the divided 10 MHz
   signal to the 5 MHz input. If the time constant of the loop filter is
   set long enough, does this avoid the phase noise multiplication issue?
   From what I've gathered, this is a technique HP used in some of their
   gear. For example, the 8566 and 8340/1 lock a 100 MHz VCXO to an
   external reference with a PLL.

   Any other thoughts on this?
   Matt
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[time-nuts] Re: SOLD BVA8600B SOLD

[timeok]

   Hi,

   I thank everyone who wrote to me.

   The BVA was sold to the first person who responded to my ad.

   Good luck with the next opportunity.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da tim...@timeok.it
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Sat, 7 Aug 2021 07:08:10 +0200
   Oggetto [time-nuts] fs BVA8600B

   For sale Oscilloquartz BVA8600B in perfect operating conditions.

   I ask for € 1550 including shipping costs to Europe or the USA.

   Photographs on request for interested people.

   Please write directly to: tim...@timeok.it

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it
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[time-nuts] fs BVA8600B

[timeok]

   For sale Oscilloquartz BVA8600B in perfect operating conditions.

   I ask for € 1550 including shipping costs to Europe or the USA.

   Photographs on request for interested people.

   Please write directly to: tim...@timeok.it

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it
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[time-nuts] New A9 for HP5065A

[timeok]

   Hi,

   I'm planning to redo the A9 pcb for the HP5065a, the amplifier integrator, 
replicating the latest version introduced by HP.

   The intention is to replace the operational amplifier with an LT1012 and in 
the remaining space of the board to make a zone for prototypes. The board will 
have the gold plated connector as in the original board.

   I think two months are necessary for the design testing and production of 
the pcbs.

   I would like to know if there are other people interested in the pcb in 
order to adjust with the order. Besides the pcb, I will also supply the 
insulated pin to connect the capacitor.

   For the safety of the shipment I use only UPS or DHL.

   As for the costs at the moment I am not able to quantify them but I will not 
apply any margin, it will be only the costs of production, packaging and 
shipping.

   Please write to me directly at  tim...@timeok.it indicating the number of 
the boards that interest you.

   Your suggestions are welcome.

   Best,

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it
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Re: [time-nuts] Aging 5065A ?

[timeok]

   Hi,

   I would also like to update the 5065A but so far there are no kits or pcb 
available. I think that the first things to update are also the "simplest ones" 
like the voltage regulation, the C field generator but first, the integrator 
board, because there are many old HP5065A that keep the primordial version.

   I would like redesign and implement the simplest board, the A9 the 
integrator.

   The main features that I have identified are

   1) the board must be physically compatible with the standard one.

   2) given the large space, provide for a future daughter board that can 
be mounted with columns  anchored on the A9.

   3) smd assembly.

   4) positive and negative regulators 15V.

   5) low noise operational amplifier model?

   6) 5uF capacitor type?

   7) offset regulation?

   8) large breadboard area for future changes ex:pressure sensor to 
compensate for delta f.

   9) gold coated connector if possible.

   I would like to have your opinions, and I turn to all the teachers who read 
the emails of this group which are many. However, I am available to collaborate 
with all those interested in updating the HP5065A. I would like there to be 
some common guidelines, once identified, and projects with a relatively 
constant flow of work.

   thank you,

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc "Ulf Kylenfall" ulf_...@yahoo.com
   Data Tue, 6 Oct 2020 22:49:30 -0400
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Aging 5065A ?
   Will agree I would hack something in. The same for the synthesiser. I could
   swear someone on time-nuts already has. The phase detection circuit is
   audio and it would take some experimentation. I think Corby supplied an
   alternative approach on the A7 opamp so a lot of good work.
   But the charcoal problem mentions really would be the worst problem to deal
   with. I guess it would be ebay parts. $$$ Whats a dead 5065 go for chuckle?
   Regards
   Paul
   WB8TSL

   On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:27 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:

   > Hi
   >
   > Replacing the synthesizer with something more modern is certainly
   > possible. I have
   > a project (slowly moving along) to do just that. There is nothing crazy on
   > the logic board,
   > it could easily be replaced with something more modern for not a lot of
   > money.
   >
   > The phase detector / photo amp / modulator chain is a bit more
   > problematic. My guess is that
   > a replacement of both the photo amp (preamp) and the phase detector at the
   > same time
   > would make sense. Both are “audio” circuits. There is nothing in them that
   > makes them
   > totally nutty to replace.
   >
   > The physics package *is* the long term question. When the lamps die, I
   > doubt we can find
   > ( or fab) replacements. If the temperature controller fails in a fashion
   > that the entire “tube”
   > turns into a chunk of charcoal, that would be a long tough fixer upper.
   >
   > Fun !!!
   >
   > Bob
   >
   > > On Oct 6, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
   > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
   > >
   > >
   > > Having been shut of for several months I fired up the
   > > refurbished 5065A a few weeks ago.
   > >
   > > It has since been equipped with a new AC-amplifier
   > > (A7) and a new Rubidium cell with the repaired lamp
   > > (thanks to Corby Dawson) and a receiver with a
   > > TED that was connected according to HP instructions.
   > >
   > > Also the 5 MHz original crystal oscillator has been replaced
   > > with an 10811 upgrade kit.
   > >
   > > Almost immedeately, the FET's in the 60 MHz Multiplier A3
   > > not replaced during the first repair all failed.
   > > They were replaced with metal can 2N4416 and all was well.
   > >
   > > The next thing that happened was that the amber
   > > pilot light "Continuous Operation"
   > > went out. From just a single event, the lamp started
   > > going out just every time I turned my back on the
   > > instrument. Since there were no sign of out-off lock
   > > conditions and I had no clue other that removing the
   > > logic assy A14 and checking the lamp driver Q18
   > > (1854-0003, selected from 2N1711) I found the transistor
   > > to be leaky. After replacing it with a 2N1893, I have
   > > only had one single such event in a week. Looking at
   > > the 1854-0003 from the bottom, the TO-5 package is most
   > > likely sealed with brown epoxy. And the A14 board
   > > is littered with them.
   > >
   > > I could of course replace all these
   > > small signal transistors, be it NPN or PNP with modern
   > > types but contemplating on this, I wonder how long a 5065
   > > can be operational if the heater windings in the Rb cavity
   > > remains OK and the synthesizer with its unobtanium
   > > logics are OK. From the records on the 

Re: [time-nuts] Dead 5065A - Some comments - Some questions...

[timeok]

   Ulf,

   what you write and that you have found several dead transistors the problem 
could be derived from the power supply. When changing transistors and you did 
the calibrations correctly the HP5065A still does not work means that the 
initial fault was not found.

   The first question that comes to mind is if the two ovens of the physical 
assembly are working, you can check this from the meter on the front panel.

   Anything is possible but it seems strange to me that you have two bad A1 
assemblies. There are many variables about this repair.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A "Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement" 
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc "Ulf Kylenfall" ulf_...@yahoo.com
   Data Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:06:06 + (UTC)
   Oggetto [time-nuts] Dead 5065A - Some comments - Some questions...
   Greetings.

   Having had my 5065 disconnected several months
   due to all sorts of things, and started it up
   yesterday. It was dead. "Pining for the fjords"

   No 2nd harmonic. Just PhotoCurrent. Quick Phase Checkusing a scope in 
X/Y-mode returned a "U" instead of a bump
   And most of the rest was noise.

   I have previously replaced a number of transistors
   in A3 (5 -> 60 MHz Multiplier) during first attempts
   to resurrect this unit and it seems like
   the rest of them were gone (how come?) now.
   Many of them are 1855-0327 which I have replaced
   by 2N4416. Q7 by BC557 (!)
   and Q9 by 2N5109. After this, I have adequate regulation
   and an AGC of > 4V.

   All-in-all: Just about every transistor in A3 was bad.
   There were output at first ~ 10 dBm at J8 but it was not
   possible to increase the output by tuning. Also
   there was no AGC.

   I checked a second unit from a scrapped 5065 on my bench
   and the situation was the same with that A3. Low output
   power. No AGC.

   So now for the question before I put any more
   energy in trying to fix the rest of the old faithful:

   I checked the A1 syntesizer unit which did
   provide correct output frequencies but
   they were not as stable as the internal
   5 MHz Osc. (10811) HP does not mention any
   stability/jitter data for A1. Using a 5370B and 1 second
   gating, the output fq was stable down to
   single kHz figures but jittered further down.
   The 5370B counter is locked to a GPS diciplined
   105B and comparing with the 5065's internal
   10811 (in OpenLoop mode), that oscillator
   is also very stable and settable within spec.

   I have two of these synthesizers, but they are
   both the 1st edition using TO packaged
   IC's that are unobtanium. One of my manuals
   shows a more modern unit with plastic DIP's.
   Some signetics and a one-shot that is unidentifiable.

   IF the A1's are bad - has anybody made some
   reverse engineering trying to fit the
   "DIP-version" with modern available IC's
   or modified it in a way that can be reproduced?


   Best Regards

   Ulf Kylenfall
   SM6GXV



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Re: [time-nuts] Isolated +20V for lamp supply

[timeok]

   Corby,

   so why did HP use a coaxial cable for the lamp power? it seems nonsense.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:46:01 -0700
   Oggetto [time-nuts] Isolated +20V for lamp supply
   Luciano,

   You should "Ohm out" the lamp connector shield to the chassis with
   nothing connected to the connector.
   Depending on how your optical unit is mounted there is a good chance the
   lamp assy is grounded to the chassis through the threaded stud!
   Especially so if the optical is the newer unpainted one.
   If so isolating it as you detailed does not change anything!

   Cheers,
   Corby


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Re: [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"

[timeok]

   I noticed that HP made a particular choice about connecting the ground side 
lamp power supply. HP use a coaxial cable between the physical assembly and a 
connector mounted on the chassis, then a single + 20V wire is connected to the 
voltage regulator board, while the chassis acts as a negative connection.

   This solution reflects the technology of a "few years ago", now it would be 
unthinkable.

   My fear is that other currents circulating on the chassis affect, even if 
minimally, the power supply voltrage of the lamp. In one of my 5065As I kept 
the smc connector isolated and with a female smc connectorized coaxial cable I 
got directly to the 20Volts regulator. I think it is useful in an update of our 
HP5065A.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it
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Re: [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"

[timeok]

   I would like to share with you my thoughts on two important points that 
concern a little all attempts to modify and upgrade the equipment.

   In general I am very reluctant to modify both the electrically and 
mechanically, in this case, the HP5065A. Modifying, even completely a board, I 
agree if there is a significant improvement, trying to use the existing pinout 
and, in the need for additional connection points, use additional connectors on 
the board. As regards the space on the pcb, smd components can be used whenever 
possible or doughter boards.

   Remove boards, transformers or anything else I find reluctant, I would 
prefer to have the possibility of being able to go back to the original 
configuration if necessary.
   The area occupied by the optional batteries, which I think almost nobody 
uses, can be used for new electronics.

   Using a switching power supply with better performance I agree and since 
there is already a dedicated DC input on the back of the 5065A I would prefer 
to use the one to connect to an external box that contains the new power supply 
and the management of a backup DC input. This eliminates the need to dismantle 
anything inside the HP5065A.

   Another important point is that of the certainty of the results of a change. 
I mean that most hobbyists who have a 5065A, including me, do not have the 
opportunity to measure the proposed improvement effects, first of all because 
they do not have a reference such as an HMaser available, nor even such a 
refined measuring system to appreciate the improvements made. I want to 
remember that between zero and 8kseconds the GPS system (e.g. HP GPSDO) in our 
laboratories has an Adev higher than that of the HP5065A and therefore the 
measure we do in that range is that of GPS, not that of rubidium.

   For this reason I invite all those who dedicate themselves to these very 
interesting changes proposed to test the results obtained in depth and to share 
them with us with numerical and graphic elements. I take this opportunity to 
thank them in advance for their scientific help.

   I want to specify that this is my point of view, it is not a rule and not 
necessarily shared by other people.

   thankyou ,  Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:32:31 -0400
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"
   Hi

   If a more extensive rebuild is in the works …..

   +/-20V is (as has been observed) not an ideal voltage for “modern” 
electronics.
   If you dig into each of the boards, there is a lot of “drop it down right 
now” regulation
   done on a board by board basis. More or less what might be there:

   A1 Synth
   A2 Battery Charger
   A3 60 MHz multiplier
   A4 100 KHz divider
   A5 Digital Divider (= clock)
   A6 1 MHz divider
   A7 AC amplifier
   A8 Phase detector
   A9 Integrator
   A10 OCXO
   A11 Rb temp control
   A12 Rb assembly
   A13 5 MHz buffer
   A14 Logic
   A15 Power supply
   A16 Power for clock
   A17 Terminal board
   A18 Jumpers ( = alt for A2)
   A19 Led Clock board

   For most uses, A4,A5,A6,A16,and A19 are not required. A2 is just a pair of 
diodes (A18) rather than
   a battery charger. A17 is more part of the wiring harness than anything 
else. Looking at what’s left:

   A1 synth, this seems to be a target for various replacement schemes. Right 
now, it has a bunch
   of positive voltage rails with some circuits running on 20V. Replacement 
likely would run on <= +12.

   A3 Multiplier. Again a target for replacement in some schemes. Same supply 
as A1 for replacement.
   Existing design runs +20 direct to a lot of circuits.

   A7 AC amplifier. Now runs +/-20V. Pretty much begs for a modern op-amp based 
replacement
   board. +/-12 probably is fine for that board. A *good* -15 would work for 
the existing board with minor
   mods.

   A8 Phase detector. Replacement probably is all digital. Now runs +20V A9 
Later version of the board runs +/-15. Probably would work fine a good +/-12 
with minor mods

   A10 If it’s a 10811, it’s going to need > +18 for the heater and +12 for the 
OCXO. There are other
   “at least as good” parts that work fine on +12.

   A11 Unless you want to redo the heater windings on A12, you are stuck with 
+20 to +30V. Rest of the board
   sort of begs for a modern op-amp approach.

   A12 Lamp assembly is the only load (other than heater windings and C field). 
It does run on +20V.

   A13 +20V taken to +9 for everything on the board. Simple mod to run on +12 
(or +15 or +10 …). Replacement
   likely runs on +12

   A14 If the upstream boards get changed, this likely does as well. Sort of 
begs for a $1 MCU and a handful of resistors
   as a replacement.

   A15 ( the topic of discussion)

   So, there are two “customers” for -20V. Both would be 

Re: [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"

[timeok]

   It has been a while since there has been talk of a redesign of the A15 and 
it is certainly the right way to technologically update the HP5065A that 
deserves better electronics.

   A better C field generator is necessary and the LM399 remains a good 
solution. It would be interesting to add barometric pressure compensation. Two 
types of setting could be used to adjust the C field, one with fixed high 
stability resistors resistors that can be switched for the coarse and a 
potentiometer for fine tuning in order to mitigate its low temperature 
stability.

   Excellent solution of two separate power supplies for the lamp and the rest 
of the electronics but I have doubts about the LM317. Since we already have the 
LM399 available for the CField, why not use this reference voltage already 
present on the board to drive two low noise regulators?

   I hope to be of contribution to this project.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:31:13 +
   Oggetto [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"
   The A15 board in one of my 5065s is in bad shape, and I have started
   to look at designing a plug-compatible replacement board.

   The main reason I dont just repair/replace the A15 is that
   I want to find out how much instability the PSU contributes.

   The outline idea currently is:

   LM399 self-biased voltage reference
   (See: Linear app-note 42, fig 72)

   The ultimate board would use LTZ1000, but I have not quite
   convinced myself yet, even if it would be cute to have a
   HP5065 which delivered both precise frequency and voltage :-)

   Op-amp based C-field driver

   Vishay SMR1DZ resistors for VREF/C-field stability

   C-field polarity switch. An experiment. If nothing else
   I will be able to measure the residual magnetic field.

   Optional adjustable C-field. Optional because the pot may
   degrade the C-field stability.

   Two +20V on-board LM317-style linear regulators, one for
   the lamp, one for the rest. Split for noise reasons and
   to be able to play with the lamp voltage/power.

   One or two pre-regulator current measurement shunts.

   DC/DC-brick switchmode -20V supply with brutal filtering.

   The downside of the two linear +20V regulators is that even with a
   heatsink, they will probably get hot-ish if the internal DC bus is
   too much over 24VDC. For this reason, and because I may simply run
   out of PCB space, I may leave the bridge rectifier out, so it will
   only works with EXT-DC.

   I'll post kicad schematic once I get further.

   --
   Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
   p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
   FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
   Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5065A Nifty A9 repair!

[timeok]

   Hi Corby,

   in my HP5065A is mounted the old card with discrete components. Can you tell 
me if there are differences about the final performances of the 5065 using the 
two different versions?

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:16:18 -0700
   Oggetto [time-nuts] HP 5065A Nifty A9 repair!
   Hi,

   Thought I'd share how I repaired a few A9 circuit cards that had a bad op
   amp module.

   The black cubical op amp module is unobtanium!

   I had planned to make a small PC board with a modern opamp on it to
   replace the bad module.

   Instead I found that I could just plonk in an LH156H and it worked great.

   An LH356H would also work, I just had some LH156H lying around.

   See the attached PIX!

   Cheers,

   Corby
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Re: [time-nuts] A simple sampling DMTD

[timeok]

   It looks very interesting.

   The TICC which has similar performance to the HP53132A, has a residual of 6 
e-11 @ 1s while the two-channel version described in the document is around 5 e 
-14.

   It would be extremely interesting if someone turned this into a solution 
accessible to amateurs.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Fri, 29 May 2020 12:06:41 -0400
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] A simple sampling DMTD
   On Sun, 01 Dec 2019 01:01:34 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com
   wrote:
   Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 185, Issue 1

   -
   >
   > Message: 1
   > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:23:07 -0500
   > From: Joseph Gwinn 
   > To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A simple sampling DMTD
   > Message-ID: <20191130122307326859.fc045...@comcast.net>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   >
   > Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 184, Issue 40
   > On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 20:37:02 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com
   > wrote:
   >
   > [snip]
   >> Message: 6
   >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 20:37:16 +0100
   >> From: Gerhard Hoffmann 
   >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A simple sampling DMTD
   >> Message-ID: 
   >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
   >>
   [snip]
   > The fundamental problem to be solved is to estimate the phases of two
   > beatnotes, one per channel (ref, signal under test), the phase
   > difference being converted into a relative time delay. So, we are
   > estimating phase twice, against an unknown but common internal
   > reference, and the key question here is how best to measure those two
   > phases. Detection of zero crossings is one way, but there are others.

   FYI, while looking for something unrelated, I recently ran across a
   relevant article from the NIST of Japan, published in 2007:

   "Frequency-Stability Measurement System Using High-Speed ADCs and
   Digital Signal Processing", Ken Mochizuki, Masaharu Uchino, and Takao
   Morikawa, IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON INSTRUMENTATION AND MEASUREMENT, VOL.
   56, NO. 5, OCTOBER 2007, pages 1887-1893, Digital Object Identifier
   10.1109/TIM.2007.895588.

   This can be implemented using a modern Software Defined Radio system.

   No zero-crossing detecter is used. Computation of the time difference
   is detailed in reference [16] therein:

   [16] M. Uchino and K. Mochizuki, "Frequency stability measuring
   technique using digital signal processing," Electron. Commun. Jpn.,
   vol. 87, no. 1, pp. 21–33, 2004. IEEE Xplore has it.

   Searching for Uchino et al led me to the following:

   "Oscillator metrology with software defined radio, Jeff A. Sherman and
   Robert Jördens (of NIST), Review of Scientific Instruments 87, 054711
   (2016); https://doi.org/10.1063/1.4950898. (Open version:
   )

   Joe Gwinn


   > We know the frequencies of the beatnotes quite accurately, and that the
   > waveforms are sine waves (which we will have band-pass filtered in
   > hardware before conversion to digital data). Here, I will assume that
   > the frequencies are the same. The only free variables are thus
   > amplitude and phase; these can be estimated using least squares applied
   > to successive batches of I samples. Windowing is still useful to
   > reduce end splice effects, as previously discussed. Given that we are
   > working in the numerical domain, it's probably adequate to apply the
   > window function to the product of the proposed match and the actual
   > data, and then sum the windowed products.
   >
   > As a quality check, if the estimated amplitude is too small (or too
   > large), reject the phase estimate and try again. If this condition
   > persists too long or becomes too common, something is broken.
   >
   > I doubt that anything of the 8-bit class is practical for this, and
   > certainly not for a small-volume product, because programming effort
   > increases sharply if the chosen processor is too limited. Ardinuo and
   > maybe StrawberryPi seem more like it.
   >
   > As for emulation of floating point, the least-squares algorithm defined
   > above can certainly be implemented in fixed-point arithmetic, called
   > fractional integers above.
   > 
   >
   > In the extreme, this kind of algorithm will work with data clipped to a
   > few bits per sample. The underwater sonar folk are masters of this,
   > especially back in the days when signal processors were necessarily
   > bespoke hardware. The search term is "one-bit correlator" (without the
   > quotes).
   >
   > --
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Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

[timeok]

   I made a mistake on the product nr.

   The correct value is 100k so the pn is 3700S-196-104

   As  Matthias suggest I have placed a samples request directly to Bourns.

   https://www.bourns.com/support/request-samples

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc
   Data Tue, 12 May 2020 11:25:56 +0200
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

   Am 12.05.20 um 11:03 schrieb tim...@timeok.it:
   > Bourns 3700S-196-1004

   A short search leads to

   <
   
https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Bourns/3700S-1-103?qs=Ce8Nk3DxA0Ci0Gcap53qHg==
   >

   which says that that the base type is EOL-ed (end of product life).

   The data sheet has no 100K version. Also the type number is probably a typo.

   1004 would mean 100  which would be 1 Meg, practically impossible to

   do produce from NiCr wire or similar.


   If all it has to do is selecting a voltage between 0 and some reference
   voltage,

   10K is probably just OK.

   regards,

   Gerhard


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Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

[timeok]

   Hi,

   good suggestion, I have seen the form for requesting samples.

   I will also try this path. In any case, if someone had to sell, let me know 
directly.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "Matthias Welwarsky" time-n...@welwarsky.de
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com
   Cc tim...@timeok.it
   Data Tue, 12 May 2020 11:31:39 +0200
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning
   On Dienstag, 12. Mai 2020 11:24:39 CEST Matthias Welwarsky wrote:
   > Hi,
   >
   > The Bourns 3700S series is still available, a 100k Ohm part is this:
   > https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Bourns/3700S-1-104L?qs=
   > %2Fha2pyFadujnek9uGXX64FiPDt0iEW4%2F27z9APd4XbI%3D[1]
   >

   Sorry for the broken link, but just search Mouser for "3700S-1-104L" and it
   will show up. Unfortunately, it's a "non-stock" item, but maybe you can get a
   sample directly from Bourns?

   > regards,
   > Matthias
   >
   > On Dienstag, 12. Mai 2020 11:03:02 CEST tim...@timeok.it wrote:
   > > Hi everyone,
   > >
   > > I need your help to find a particular Bourns potentiometer that many
   > >
   > > frequency standard company use for frequency fine tuning in their
   > > oscillators. In my experience, both HP in 107BR and Frequency Electronics
   > > in the AN URQ-23 use this potentiometer which has a value of 100k Ohm.
   > >
   > > Unfortunately I can't replace it with other models and by doing some
   > >
   > > research I found some but at most with a resistance of 10K Ohm. I need 
two
   > > pieces, but if I find more, I would keep them in reserve. The problem 
with
   > > these multiturns is that the back cover comes off and no longer work.
   > > Some
   > > can be glued again, others are damaged internally in the cursor because
   > > the
   > > operator insisted trying to force the spindle. In the case of the HP107BR
   > > the potentiometer is installed in the external oven and the temperature
   > > has
   > > accentuated the gluing problem. In this regard, suggestions on which glue
   > > can be used for high temperatures are welcome.
   > >
   > > The model is: Bourns 3700S-196-1004
   > >
   > > thanks,
   > >
   > > Luciano
   > >
   > > Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   > > tim...@timeok.it
   > > www.timeok.it
   > >
   > > ___
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follow
   > > the instructions there.
   >
   > 
   > [1] https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Bourns/3700S-1-104L?qs=
   > %2Fha2pyFadujnek9uGXX64FiPDt0iEW4%2F27z9APd4XbI%3D
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Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

[timeok]

   Thanks Matthias,

   Mouser and Digikey have in catalog but not in stock the 100K version.

   The 100k value for them is not required enough and they suggest that they 
could have them but only if the order is for a large number of pieces.

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it

   Da "Matthias Welwarsky" time-n...@welwarsky.de
   A time-nuts@lists.febo.com, tim...@timeok.it
   Cc
   Data Tue, 12 May 2020 11:24:39 +0200
   Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

   Hi,


   The Bourns 3700S series is still available, a 100k Ohm part is this:

   
https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Bourns/3700S-1-104L?qs=%2Fha2pyFadujnek9uGXX64FiPDt0iEW4%2F27z9APd4XbI%3D


   regards,

   Matthias


   On Dienstag, 12. Mai 2020 11:03:02 CEST tim...@timeok.it wrote:

   > Hi everyone,

   >

   > I need your help to find a particular Bourns potentiometer that many

   > frequency standard company use for frequency fine tuning in their

   > oscillators. In my experience, both HP in 107BR and Frequency Electronics

   > in the AN URQ-23 use this potentiometer which has a value of 100k Ohm.

   >

   > Unfortunately I can't replace it with other models and by doing some

   > research I found some but at most with a resistance of 10K Ohm. I need two

   > pieces, but if I find more, I would keep them in reserve. The problem with

   > these multiturns is that the back cover comes off and no longer work. Some

   > can be glued again, others are damaged internally in the cursor because the

   > operator insisted trying to force the spindle. In the case of the HP107BR

   > the potentiometer is installed in the external oven and the temperature has

   > accentuated the gluing problem. In this regard, suggestions on which glue

   > can be used for high temperatures are welcome.

   >

   > The model is: Bourns 3700S-196-1004

   >

   > thanks,

   >

   > Luciano

   >

   > Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti

   > tim...@timeok.it

   > www.timeok.it

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   > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com

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   > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow

   > the instructions there.
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[time-nuts] Bourns for fine frequency tuning

[timeok]

   Hi everyone,

   I need your help to find a particular Bourns potentiometer that many 
frequency standard company use for frequency fine tuning in their oscillators. 
In my experience, both HP in 107BR and Frequency Electronics in the AN URQ-23 
use this potentiometer which has a value of 100k Ohm.

   Unfortunately I can't replace it with other models and by doing some 
research I found some but at most with a resistance of 10K Ohm. I need two 
pieces, but if I find more, I would keep them in reserve. The problem with 
these multiturns is that  the back cover comes off and no longer work. Some can 
be glued again, others are damaged internally in the cursor because the 
operator insisted trying to force the spindle.
   In the case of the HP107BR the potentiometer is installed in the external 
oven and the temperature has accentuated the gluing problem. In this regard, 
suggestions on which glue can be used for high temperatures are welcome.

   The model is:   Bourns 3700S-196-1004

   thanks,

   Luciano

   Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
   tim...@timeok.it
   www.timeok.it
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