Re:[tips] Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism?
Claudia Stanny asks: Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism? I note that the examples Claudia provides come from the United States, which is hardly the sole representative of Western society (for starters, it is totally unrepresentative as far as the importance of religious belief is concerned in comparison with Western Europe). Reluctant as I am to get involved in this kind of discussion (which can go on interminably), I hardly think that what Claudia describes is evidence of widespread religious barbarism in the US compared with, say, some Christian practices towards heretics some centuries ago. Nor does it remotely compare with, for instance, the widespread acceptance in Muslim countries (and often in law) that the punishment for apostasy is death. For example, here is Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, Head of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (welcomed, with many protesting, by then Mayor Ken Livingstone to London in 2004 as a progressive figure in Islam): All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503547222pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar When the official or widely-held position in Western societies is that defectors from Christianity should be physically punished, possible by death, I'll consider accepting the equivalence suggested by Claudia. More on this in relation to the UK: The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain was launched in the Houses of Parliament on June 21, 2007. The unique organisation was established by ‘apostates’ to break the taboo that comes with renouncing Islam and religion, particularly given that it is punishable by death in many countries… http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/eng/pressreleases/press-pages/121298-AnnualReport.html Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org --- From: Claudia Stanny csta...@uwf.edu Subject:Re: They Too Died That Day Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:45:04 -0500 Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism? My perceptions might be distorted a bit . . . I live in a region where churches were bombed in the 1960s because it was too soon after the turmoil of the Civil War to consider sitting next to a person of color on a bus or to use the same drinking fountain, much less allow them to vote. I saw evidence of the persistence of this attitude in the 1970s, where some communities still maintained separate seating in the balcony of movie theaters for African Americans. More recently, the youth minister of a local fundamentalist Christian church detonated a bomb in a medical clinic on Christmas morning as his gift to Jesus. A decade later another fundamentalist Christian minister purchased a small sliver of land adjoining a clinic and set up a system of ladders and scaffolding along the privacy fence, where he would perch with a bullhorn and harass physicians, staff, and clients. This circus continued for a couple of years. He was defended in the community because he owned the property and had a right to do with it at he pleased. (Sound familiar?) His actions finally came to an end when he brought a shotgun and murdered a physician and his escort as they arrived at the clinic one morning. Every weekend of every summer I must endure the shouted ministry of ministers-in-training from the local Christian college, who stand on street corners and use their Bibles to direct their tirades threatening all who pass with hell fire and damnation. Closed windows, blasting AC, and Bach at full volume on the CD fail to muffle the noise. I can't imagine what a woman in a head scarf must endure from this crowd. But they do have a right to speak. The same right that protects my speech in this e-mail, which some might find objectionable and would like to silence. Then we have the mere criminals; tax cheats who wrap themselves in some weird interpretation of Biblical verse that they claim grants them permission to pay their employees in cash and not pay Social Security or income taxes on wages. (Actual local case, now convicted.) My fears of religious terrorism are much closer to home. None of these terrorists worships in a mosque. Claudia Stanny -Original Message- From: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) digest tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu To: tips digest recipients tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Mon, Sep 13, 2010 6:00 am Subject: tips digest: September 12, 2010 Subject: tips digest: September 12, 2010 From: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) digest tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Reply-To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
[tips] Fwd: Random Thought: China Diary 14, On Age And Retiring
Dear diary, it's May 25th, my word for the day all this day was enthused. Interesting, because up popped those questions again that says more about the questioners than about me: Why don't you retire? When are you going to retire? You've been there how long? How old are you? To the first two questions, diary, I always reply with When it stops being fun and I start feeling old. True, in less than six months I'll hit the grand ole age of 70 (I'm still convinced they made a mistake on my birth certificate) and am in my 44th year at VSU. I suppose I could utter a denying no way or a depressing yuk or an upset aaargh or a sighing where have the years gone to those numbers, but, you know, diary, age is really a state of mind. It must be because nobody believes me when I answer their last question, especially students. I guess they think people my age should look and act like a frail, cantakerous, shriveled prune surviving on prune juice, bent over, and unsteadily hobbling with a cane or walker. Well, diary, I'm no prune. I'm a healthy, razor sharp plum of a guy. Getting older doesn't mean your spirit is getting weaker! No being put on the shelf or out to pasture for me. No rocking chair on the porch in my future. I'm still vertical and dancing. The only walker I have are my two, 3-4 mile power all experience is prepared legs. I'm enveloped in an aura of contentment and a zest for life. Sure, my body isn't what it used to be, but neither is my spirit. My body is getting older and older, but my spirit, where it really counts is getting younger and younger, and my bliss is growing by leaps and bounds. My synapses are wildly snapping. When someone says I'm not acting my age, I answer with the adamant playground retort, Am so! See, I always say that while I may be getting older I'll be damn if I'm going to let myself grow old. I will not allow time to dictate my life. How can I? I make my life is a dynamic state of being and becoming. I work on the principle that every day is new during which I learn something new and become someone new. Nothing is a ho-hum, just another drag. Nothing is old hat for me, no merely passing time. I wish I count the times someone has said to me, Get serious. Well, hell, diary, I won't. And, I will. Serious fun is the core of my teaching, of my life, is living joyfully to be songful, all the way through it. Everything is beautiful, magical, mysterious, miraculous, adventurous, airy. I've been able to keep my teaching fresh because I take it and all that I do all in just in that way: I keep my sense of humor; I keep my joy of living; I won't let others hang on me their hang-ups on me. I will not slap labels on my lapels. I'm still a sprite kid, an experienced one to be sure, but just a kid knowing the joys of play, fun, laughter, wonder, curiosity, imagination, and creativity in everything I do more than I have ever before. Each is a new day, and I live it that way. I make use of each day to bring new experience into my life. I'm a gusher! I keep my life fresh and invigorating, and am always open to new possibilities. I still get wildly enthusiastic about little things. I still live by my To Be A Teacher. I blow bubbles. I play with rolly-pollies. I make puns. I am immersed in today's uniqueness. It's all about having serious fun. You see, as I have said over and over again, the opposite of fun is not work; it's boredom. I'm thinking of this because some people just don't get it. That's why they're more stressed out than stress hardy. They don't understand that newness, offers the most wondrous trips. Playfulness, maybe even with a touch of silliness, of being carefree, is a healing balm. It's down right refreshing and energizing. It's the Fountain of Youth that Ponce de Leon was looking for. Where your spirit dances, your mind and body will follow. Maybe that's why I chuckle when people tell me how good I look. Of course, diary, it's a hell of a lot better than having people saying poor, wrinkled guy, he looks like he's about to topple over. Maybe they enjoy how I look and act because if I am managing to stay young at heart, being and feeling energetic, they'll be able to find a way, too. Maybe its comforting to them to know that 70 isn't the end. No, diary, age or longevity is not a reason to quit. Domesticating routine, imprisoning boredom, stuck-in-a-rut disinterest, and atrophying unhappiness are. No, diary, each and every day, I care and feed the child within me and keep young of heart. And, because of the lessons of my near-fatal cerebral hemorrhage, if do nothing I cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live. For fear of sounding trite and cliche-ish, I feel like an aged wine: more satisfying, more refreshing, more valuable, more appreciated, and more intoxicating. I know the ultimate sin is
Re: [tips] social psych activity
Hi Jim: Thanks for the feedback, but the attachment didn't make it thru. Please resend. Gerry --- On Sun, 9/12/10, Jim Matiya jmat...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Jim Matiya jmat...@hotmail.com Subject: [tips] social psych activity To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 5:14 PM Attached is a short video is based on Gerry's class activity. I used it in a Social Psych unit. I added one more direction, after the students were all facing the board, they turned around and were facing the class. Will person #4 turn with them? Watch their feet. It's a good lead-in to Allen Funt's Candid Camera snippet, conforming behavior in an elevator. Jim Matiya Visiting Instructor in Psychology Florida Gulf Coast University jmat...@fgcu.edu Using David Myers' texts for AP Psychology? Go to http://bcs.worthpublishers.com/cppsych/ High School Psychology and Advanced Psychology Graphic Organizers, Pacing Guides, and Daily Lesson Plans archived at www.Teaching-Point.net Contributor, for Karen Huffman's Psychology in Action, Video Guest Lecturettes John Wiley and Sons. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: palmtree60...@yahoo.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13437.b37242925ffe0da400d9b98c254b9fcdn=Tl=tipso=4754 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-4754-13437.b37242925ffe0da400d9b98c254b9...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4763 or send a blank email to leave-4763-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] They Too Died That Day
following blindly its edicts. It would be interesting to know historically over what time period changes occurred in attitudes toward religion and its components (e.g., bible). When, for example, did people first start entertaining seriously the idea that the bible could be viewed as a figurative document rather than one to be taken literally? I don't have any references for you, but I can tell you that very early on the Fathers of the Church insisted scripture *not* be taken literally. As late as my youth I can tell you that (at least in the Catholic Church) it was taught that biblical stories required interpretation, and as late as my mom's youth, Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible without a priest handy to help you understand what it was telling you... m Let me say this about that. Most changes in attitudes may not be time driven but are event driven.The catholic church has softened some of its views about planetary and evolutionary matters because of the preponderance of evidence from science. Yep,it is true that the Catholic church did not encourage catholics to read the bible because of a perceived lack of interpretation skills.But I also think that the church wanted to uphold some of its doctrines which went contrary to biblical teachings.Just as moslems have a series of sayings from the Haddid,the Catholic church had Canon Law dictates which supported papal infallibility,the cult of the Virgin Mary,and so on.As a matter of fact,the evangelicals have made gret gains in Latin America because they depict catholicism as being anti-biblical.When the church put a stop to Liberation thrology in Latin America,orogressive priests like Camillo de Torres of Colombia left service to the poor a missionary thrust to the evangelicals. On a hidtorical note it has been hypothesized that all of China could have been cetholic if the Pope had allowed the Jesuits there to use Chinese in the mass' Michael omnicentric Sylvester,PhD Daytona Beach,Florida --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4773 or send a blank email to leave-4773-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: Re:[tips] Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism?
I do think, however, that across the US, even in places like southern california, we have numerous similar examples. Hers are not unique. So the idea that this is a pervasive subtext running through our American society has received little argument. On the other hand, I suppose it is true that we are not the entire Western society ;) Annette Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D. Professor, Psychological Sciences University of San Diego 5998 Alcala Park San Diego, CA 92110 tay...@sandiego.edu From: Allen Esterson [allenester...@compuserve.com] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:02 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re:[tips] Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism? Claudia Stanny asks: Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism? I note that the examples Claudia provides come from the United States, which is hardly the sole representative of Western society (for starters, it is totally unrepresentative as far as the importance of religious belief is concerned in comparison with Western Europe). Reluctant as I am to get involved in this kind of discussion (which can go on interminably), I hardly think that what Claudia describes is evidence of widespread religious barbarism in the US compared with, say, some Christian practices towards heretics some centuries ago. Nor does it remotely compare with, for instance, the widespread acceptance in Muslim countries (and often in law) that the punishment for apostasy is death. For example, here is Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, Head of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (welcomed, with many protesting, by then Mayor Ken Livingstone to London in 2004 as a progressive figure in Islam): All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503547222pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar When the official or widely-held position in Western societies is that defectors from Christianity should be physically punished, possible by death, I'll consider accepting the equivalence suggested by Claudia. More on this in relation to the UK: The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain was launched in the Houses of Parliament on June 21, 2007. The unique organisation was established by ‘apostates’ to break the taboo that comes with renouncing Islam and religion, particularly given that it is punishable by death in many countries… http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/eng/pressreleases/press-pages/121298-AnnualReport.html Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org --- From: Claudia Stanny csta...@uwf.edu Subject:Re: They Too Died That Day Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:45:04 -0500 Has Western society really evolved that much from religious barbarism? My perceptions might be distorted a bit . . . I live in a region where churches were bombed in the 1960s because it was too soon after the turmoil of the Civil War to consider sitting next to a person of color on a bus or to use the same drinking fountain, much less allow them to vote. I saw evidence of the persistence of this attitude in the 1970s, where some communities still maintained separate seating in the balcony of movie theaters for African Americans. More recently, the youth minister of a local fundamentalist Christian church detonated a bomb in a medical clinic on Christmas morning as his gift to Jesus. A decade later another fundamentalist Christian minister purchased a small sliver of land adjoining a clinic and set up a system of ladders and scaffolding along the privacy fence, where he would perch with a bullhorn and harass physicians, staff, and clients. This circus continued for a couple of years. He was defended in the community because he owned the property and had a right to do with it at he pleased. (Sound familiar?) His actions finally came to an end when he brought a shotgun and murdered a physician and his escort as they arrived at the clinic one morning. Every weekend of every summer I must endure the shouted ministry of ministers-in-training from the local Christian college, who stand on street corners and use their Bibles to direct their tirades threatening all who pass with hell fire and damnation. Closed windows, blasting AC, and Bach at full volume on the CD fail to muffle the noise. I can't imagine what a woman in a head scarf must endure from this crowd. But they do have a right to speak. The same right that protects my speech in this e-mail, which some might find objectionable and would like to silence. Then we have the mere criminals; tax cheats who wrap themselves in some weird interpretation of Biblical verse
Re: [tips] They Too Died That Day
JC. Your question assumes that the default position has been to read the bible literally. However, the 'dogmatic literalist' view is a distortion of modern times. So, the short answer to your question 'when did people seriously consider the bible from a non-literalist view' is: Always. From the beginning, theologians did not take the bible literally or simplistically, but have always thought deeply about it's message. Indeed, from the 2nd to 6th centuries (the time of the church fathers), the 'default position' of biblical interpretation was primarily allegorical. The 1600's (although not exclusivley) saw the addition of historical criticism. It's only in modern times (last 50 years?), that the bible has been taken in a simplistic, slogan-like way by both fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Atheists. The form of your question also assumes that the entire bible must either be understood literally or not. However, biblical interpretation has always been an issue of which parts warrant literal interpretation, which allegorical, and which metaphorical. I can sympathize with Claudia's situation; violence and aggression are frightening and unwelcome (to say nothing of the noise!). I'm not sure that religion is to blame or really has that much to do with it though . Real religion always encourages a deep and thoughtful self-questioning with regard to one's outlook and motives while always maintaining a deep concern and respect for others and their worldview. Fundamentalism as it has come to be known, is not, I think, a religious issue as much as it is an issue of basic human fear: the fear of change. When things are changing, when the world doesn't suit us, when we no longer see our personal values reflected in our environment, we become frightened and the usual response is to lash out and try to force the world back into our view of how it should be. To accomplish this people may use religion (fundamentalism), or politics (tea party?), or education (ivory towers), or any number of other ways. So I don't really think it is a religious issue as much as just a human one. But I think real religion actually helps us here with the thoughtful re-assessment of our prejudice. For the truly religious, the world, the people in it, and it's constant change are opportunities for growth and care of our fellows. Force and violence are not something which can ever be condoned. It's only when religion is hijacked by basic human fears that religion condones violence and oppression. --Mike --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4778 or send a blank email to leave-4778-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] They Too Died That Day
Marc Carter wrote: As late as my youth I can tell you that (at least in the Catholic Church) it was taught that biblical stories required interpretation, and as late as my mom's youth, Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible without a priest handy to help you understand what it was telling you... Isn't that exactly what Martin Luther was complaining about 500 years ago? I guess that's why we have Catholics and Lutherans today. . Robert W. Wildblood, PhD Adjunct Psychology Faculty Germanna Community College drb...@rcn.com --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4779 or send a blank email to leave-4779-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] They Too Died That Day
I like Michael's comments on basic human fear and how this perhaps underlying, unspoken affect finds expression in protest action and can be exploited by those who sense its presence and want publicity. Just think in the last few months about the protests in and about Arizona-treatment of not just immigrants, the ground zero building placement issue, burning the Koran, let alone the earlier and continuing tea party phenomenon. In California we have had repeated protests about police brutality (no protests re public fights and knife carrying) and the appalling City of Bell financial happenings. Why didn't we have protests re the proposal of war in Iraq and/or Afghanistan (that certainly blew the federal financial budget or) protests re the quiet marketing of financial packages of sub-prime mortgages i.e., Goldman Sachs? Were these just at quiet times in our history and people experienced no fear of change or sense of financial threat? So, why protests: so much, this year? Don't mean to make complexities simplistic or maybe I do... Joann Jelly -Original Message- From: Michael Smith [mailto:tipsl...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:57 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] They Too Died That Day JC. Your question assumes that the default position has been to read the bible literally. However, the 'dogmatic literalist' view is a distortion of modern times. So, the short answer to your question 'when did people seriously consider the bible from a non-literalist view' is: Always. From the beginning, theologians did not take the bible literally or simplistically, but have always thought deeply about it's message. Indeed, from the 2nd to 6th centuries (the time of the church fathers), the 'default position' of biblical interpretation was primarily allegorical. The 1600's (although not exclusivley) saw the addition of historical criticism. It's only in modern times (last 50 years?), that the bible has been taken in a simplistic, slogan-like way by both fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Atheists. The form of your question also assumes that the entire bible must either be understood literally or not. However, biblical interpretation has always been an issue of which parts warrant literal interpretation, which allegorical, and which metaphorical. I can sympathize with Claudia's situation; violence and aggression are frightening and unwelcome (to say nothing of the noise!). I'm not sure that religion is to blame or really has that much to do with it though . Real religion always encourages a deep and thoughtful self-questioning with regard to one's outlook and motives while always maintaining a deep concern and respect for others and their worldview. Fundamentalism as it has come to be known, is not, I think, a religious issue as much as it is an issue of basic human fear: the fear of change. When things are changing, when the world doesn't suit us, when we no longer see our personal values reflected in our environment, we become frightened and the usual response is to lash out and try to force the world back into our view of how it should be. To accomplish this people may use religion (fundamentalism), or politics (tea party?), or education (ivory towers), or any number of other ways. So I don't really think it is a religious issue as much as just a human one. But I think real religion actually helps us here with the thoughtful re-assessment of our prejudice. For the truly religious, the world, the people in it, and it's constant change are opportunities for growth and care of our fellows. Force and violence are not something which can ever be condoned. It's only when religion is hijacked by basic human fears that religion condones violence and oppression. --Mike --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: jje...@barstow.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13010.76185584223b2f7b9f3a91a2f9913135 n=Tl=tipso=4778 or send a blank email to leave-4778-13010.76185584223b2f7b9f3a91a2f9913...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4780 or send a blank email to leave-4780-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] They Too Died That Day
Dr. Bob Wildblood wrote: Marc Carter wrote: As late as my youth I can tell you that (at least in the Catholic Church) it was taught that biblical stories required interpretation, and as late as my mom's youth, Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible without a priest handy to help you understand what it was telling you... Isn't that exactly what Martin Luther was complaining about 500 years ago? I guess that's why we have Catholics and Lutherans today. Luther probably didn't envisioned Terry Jones as the outcome of his injunction that everyone should read the Bible for themselves. (On the other hand, Luther probably would have been perfectly happy to burn copies of the Koran). Interestingly, Calvin's response to Michael Sevitus interpreting the Bible for himself was to execute him. And Calvin probably had a much great influence on American protestantism than Luther. Chris -- Christopher D. Green Department of Psychology York University Toronto, ON M3J 1P3 Canada 416-736-2100 ex. 66164 chri...@yorku.ca http://www.yorku.ca/christo/ == --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=4781 or send a blank email to leave-4781-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
