Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition
Hi I was surprised by the high number of beds for the USA given all the concerns expressed about finding beds for people with psychiatric problems. When I went to the original source cited at the following link (the WHO Atlas for 2005), I found quite different values for number of psychiatric beds: 7.7 per 10,000 for the USA versus 19.34 for Canada. Not sure how source below came up with their figures (which also seem to be wrong for at least some other countries as well), unless it was some major error converting per 10,000 to per 100,000. Assuming expenditure figures were correct below, seems that money in USA goes to something besides psychiatric hospital beds. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 7:19 AM ( mailto:j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca ) Mike is correct to point out the more complete presentation in the article itself. I was just responding to the last comment emphasizing disempowerment in his post. On the matter of money changes everything, I was curious about the state of mental health funding and services in the USA since it is known that the USA spends more per capita on health care than most other developed countries and the article only alluded to relative changes due to government cutbacks. I was also struck by the fact that the victim was very poorly paid by a company with a contract for $43 million (if memory serves me right). It would be interesting to know what percentage of that $43 million went to non-service costs. I found an interesting summary of relevant statistics at http://www.mentalhealthresearch.ca/Publications/Documents/AMHB_Statistics_pktbk07_eng.pdf The USA actual spends about an average percent of total health care spending on mental health (7.5%, p. 51) relative to the comparison countries. Canada spends 5%, UK about 12%. But given larger base for USA (i.e., larger health care expenditures), USA would rank higher on per capita expenditures on mental health. Not clear what an ideal figure would be, and of course this includes both public and private expenditures, which could mask considerable inequities in spending. Hollywood alone (Charlie Sheen?) must add considerably to USA expenditures. In any case, the amount of money in the system appears to be not out of line with other countries, although perhaps there is room for improvement in allocation. Given the difficulty of modifying the health care system in the USA, I'm not too optimistic about radical changes any time soon. Moreover, USA has more psychiatric beds (p. 31) than comparison countries despite trend to transfer services to communities. Not clear that everyone would have equal access to these beds. With respect to mental health professionals, USA has average per capita number of psychiatrists (p 33) and psychologists (p 35) but markedly fewer psychiatric nurses (p 37) and social workers (p 39). Latter might perhaps be ideally expected to provide the kinds of service involved in monitoring and staffing group homes? So, money might indeed change everything, IF properly distributed. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Mike Palij m...@nyu.edu 18-Jun-11 7:45 PM On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:15:27 -0700, Jim Clark wrote: Hi I'm struck by the last sentence in Mike's quote from the panel. Is it really the case that disempowerment is what leads people (in general or just those with mental illness?) to be violent? How is that any less an over-generalization and stigmatizing about poor people than asserting that people with mental illness are likely to be violent? I don't think that the article asserts that the reduction/degradation/elimination of publicly available sources (the rich can take care of their own) is what causes people with schizophrenia or other psychotic disorder to be violent -- the article points out that these consumers in general are not violent and it is only those consumers who have a substance abuse problems that tend to have a higher rate of violence. I think that the article is trying to point out that if we are going to try to integrate the people with mental illness into the general population, then a certain level of services needs to be provided to make sure that they stay on appropriate medication, continue to learn how to deal effectively with problems or stressors in everyday life, and other supports that they need in order to engage in activities of daily living. If these services cannot be provided because of budgetary concerns, should one be surprised that consumers might stop taking their meds, might start to self-medicate with alcohol or illicit drugs, and might start to engage in behaviors that may be socially objectionable and possibly self-destructive as well as harmful to others? If the services are not there to prevent this
Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition
Hello again (last time today!) I went to WHO site for psychiatric beds per 10,000 population and extracted Europe + Canada + USA into SPSS. Below is ranking from high to low. USA falls in the middle of the pack of these select countries, 26 out of 42. Many other parts of the world have far fewer beds than these generally more developed countries. country psybeds10k rank Belgium 22.1 1.000 Canada 19.3 2.000 Netherlands 18.7 3.000 Latvia 13.8 4.000 Switzerland 13.2 5.000 France 12.0 6.500 Norway 12.0 6.500 Russian Federation 11.5 8.000 Czech Republic 11.4 9.000 Luxembourg 10.510.000 Estonia 10.211.000 Croatia 10.112.000 Finland 10.013.500 Lithuania 10.013.500 Hungary 9.616.000 Serbia and Montenegro9.616.000 Ukraine 9.616.000 Ireland 9.418.000 Slovakia 9.019.000 Greece 8.720.000 Slovenia 8.521.000 Bulgaria 8.322.000 The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia8.223.000 Belarus 8.024.000 Poland 7.825.000 United States of America 7.726.000 Romania 7.627.000 Germany 7.528.500 Portugal 7.528.500 Azerbaijan 7.130.500 Denmark 7.130.500 Republic of Moldova 6.732.000 Austria 6.533.000 Sweden 6.034.000 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 5.835.000 Iceland 5.036.000 Armenia 4.837.000 Italy4.638.000 Spain4.439.000 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3.640.000 Albania 2.541.000 Georgia 2.142.000 Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 10:30 AM ( mailto:j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca ) Hi I was surprised by the high number of beds for the USA given all the concerns expressed about finding beds for people with psychiatric problems. When I went to the original source cited at the following link (the WHO Atlas for 2005), I found quite different values for number of psychiatric beds: 7.7 per 10,000 for the USA versus 19.34 for Canada. Not sure how source below came up with their figures (which also seem to be wrong for at least some other countries as well), unless it was some major error converting per 10,000 to per 100,000. Assuming expenditure figures were correct below, seems that money in USA goes to something besides psychiatric hospital beds. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 7:19 AM ( mailto:j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca%3E%2019-Jun-11%207:19%20AM%20%3E%3E ) Mike is correct to point out the more complete presentation in the article itself. I was just responding to the last comment emphasizing disempowerment in his post. On the matter of money changes everything, I was curious about the state of mental health funding and services in the USA
Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition
We should keep in mind that certain countries, particularly those within the former soviet sphere use or have use psychiatric diagnosis and treatment as a means of political repression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry . http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/33.full One wonders whether this fact account for the higher number of beds per capita in some of these countries? Miguel - Original Message - From: Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:48:31 AM Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition - Original Message - From: Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:48:31 AM Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition Hello again (last time today!) I went to WHO site for psychiatric beds per 10,000 population and extracted Europe + Canada + USA into SPSS. Below is ranking from high to low. USA falls in the middle of the pack of these select countries, 26 out of 42. Many other parts of the world have far fewer beds than these generally more developed countries. country psybeds10k rank Belgium 22.1 1.000 Canada 19.3 2.000 Netherlands 18.7 3.000 Latvia 13.8 4.000 Switzerland 13.2 5.000 France 12.0 6.500 Norway 12.0 6.500 Russian Federation 11.5 8.000 Czech Republic 11.4 9.000 Luxembourg 10.5 10.000 Estonia 10.2 11.000 Croatia 10.1 12.000 Finland 10.0 13.500 Lithuania 10.0 13.500 Hungary 9.6 16.000 Serbia and Montenegro 9.6 16.000 Ukraine 9.6 16.000 Ireland 9.4 18.000 Slovakia 9.0 19.000 Greece 8.7 20.000 Slovenia 8.5 21.000 Bulgaria 8.3 22.000 The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 8.2 23.000 Belarus 8.0 24.000 Poland 7.8 25.000 United States of America 7.7 26.000 Romania 7.6 27.000 Germany 7.5 28.500 Portugal 7.5 28.500 Azerbaijan 7.1 30.500 Denmark 7.1 30.500 Republic of Moldova 6.7 32.000 Austria 6.5 33.000 Sweden 6.0 34.000 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 5.8 35.000 Iceland 5.0 36.000 Armenia 4.8 37.000 Italy 4.6 38.000 Spain 4.4 39.000 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3.6 40.000 Albania 2.5 41.000 Georgia 2.1 42.000 Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 10:30 AM Hi I was surprised by the high number of beds for the USA given all the concerns expressed about finding beds for people with psychiatric problems. When I went to the original source cited at the
[tips] What's normal about the normal curve?
Michael --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=11063 or send a blank email to leave-11063-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition
Except Cuba where they were shipped to Miami? Btw Miguel,were you a Pedro Pan? Michael - Original Message - From: roig-rear...@comcast.net To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition We should keep in mind that certain countries, particularly those within the former soviet sphere use or have use psychiatric diagnosis and treatment as a means of political repression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry. http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/33.full One wonders whether this fact account for the higher number of beds per capita in some of these countries? Miguel - Original Message - From: Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:48:31 AM Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition Hello again (last time today!) I went to WHO site for psychiatric beds per 10,000 population and extracted Europe + Canada + USA into SPSS. Below is ranking from high to low. USA falls in the middle of the pack of these select countries, 26 out of 42. Many other parts of the world have far fewer beds than these generally more developed countries. country psybeds10k rank Belgium 22.1 1.000 Canada 19.3 2.000 Netherlands 18.7 3.000 Latvia 13.8 4.000 Switzerland 13.2 5.000 France 12.0 6.500 Norway 12.0 6.500 Russian Federation 11.5 8.000 Czech Republic 11.4 9.000 Luxembourg 10.510.000 Estonia 10.211.000 Croatia 10.112.000 Finland 10.013.500 Lithuania 10.013.500 Hungary 9.616.000 Serbia and Montenegro9.616.000 Ukraine 9.616.000 Ireland 9.418.000 Slovakia 9.019.000 Greece 8.720.000 Slovenia 8.521.000 Bulgaria 8.322.000 The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia8.223.000 Belarus 8.024.000 Poland 7.825.000 United States of America 7.726.000 Romania 7.627.000 Germany 7.528.500 Portugal 7.528.500 Azerbaijan 7.130.500 Denmark 7.130.500 Republic of Moldova 6.732.000 Austria 6.533.000 Sweden 6.034.000 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 5.835.000 Iceland 5.036.000 Armenia 4.837.000 Italy4.638.000 Spain4.439.000 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3.640.000 Albania 2.541.000 Georgia 2.142.000 Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 10:30 AM Hi I was surprised by the high number of beds for the USA given all the
[tips] JAZZ FOR TIPSTERS(Rubin)
michael sylvester has sent you a video link The following video link was sent to you by: michael sylvester Last Night michael sylvester says: JAZZ FOR TIPSTERS (Rubin) msylves...@copper.net is sharing this video using RealPlayer®. To download Internet videos yourself, get your own copy of the FREE RealPlayer here. Privacy Policy Your email address was only used to deliver this message and for no other purpose. © 2011 RealNetworks, Inc. RealPlayer is a registered trademark of RealNetworks, Inc. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3713 - Release Date: 06/19/11 05:34:00 --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=11065 or send a blank email to leave-11065-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition
Just as a PS to Miguel's post, I don't want anyone to get the idea that only nations such as Russia and the Eastern European bloc use psychiatric diagnosis and treatment as a form of political repression. From my experience as a hospital corpsman in the Navy, I can assure you that trouble makers were often sent to see the hospital psychiatrist and often was given a psychiatric diagnosis because they were trouble makers. It isn't uncommon for other areas of our government to do the same. Original message Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:15:16 + (UTC) From: roig-rear...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu We should keep in mind that certain countries, particularly those within the former soviet sphere use or have use psychiatric diagnosis and treatment as a means of political repression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry. http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/33.full One wonders whether this fact account for the higher number of beds per capita in some of these countries? Miguel - Original Message - From: Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:48:31 AM Subject: Re: [tips] Money Changes Everything: Mental Health Treatment Edition Hello again (last time today!) I went to WHO site for psychiatric beds per 10,000 population and extracted Europe + Canada + USA into SPSS. Below is ranking from high to low. USA falls in the middle of the pack of these select countries, 26 out of 42. Many other parts of the world have far fewer beds than these generally more developed countries. country psybeds10k rank Belgium 22.1 1.000 Canada 19.3 2.000 Netherlands 18.7 3.000 Latvia 13.8 4.000 Switzerland 13.2 5.000 France 12.0 6.500 Norway 12.0 6.500 Russian Federation 11.5 8.000 Czech Republic 11.4 9.000 Luxembourg 10.510.000 Estonia 10.211.000 Croatia 10.112.000 Finland 10.013.500 Lithuania 10.013.500 Hungary 9.616.000 Serbia and Montenegro 9.616.000 Ukraine 9.616.000 Ireland 9.418.000 Slovakia 9.019.000 Greece 8.720.000 Slovenia 8.521.000 Bulgaria 8.322.000 The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia8.223.000 Belarus 8.024.000 Poland 7.825.000 United States of America 7.7 26.000 Romania 7.627.000 Germany 7.528.500 Portugal 7.528.500 Azerbaijan 7.130.500 Denmark 7.130.500 Republic of Moldova 6.732.000 Austria 6.533.000 Sweden 6.034.000 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 5.835.000 Iceland 5.036.000 Armenia 4.837.000 Italy 4.638.000 Spain 4.439.000 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3.640.000 Albania 2.541.000 Georgia 2.142.000 Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 10:30 AM Hi I was surprised by the high number of beds for the USA given all the concerns expressed about finding beds for people with psychiatric problems. When I went to the original source cited at the following link (the WHO Atlas for 2005), I found quite different values for number of psychiatric beds: 7.7 per 10,000 for the USA versus 19.34 for Canada. Not sure how source below came up with their figures (which also seem to be wrong for at least some other countries as well), unless it was some major error converting per 10,000 to per 100,000. Assuming expenditure figures were correct below, seems that money in USA goes to something besides psychiatric hospital beds. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 19-Jun-11 7:19 AM Mike is correct to point out the more complete presentation in the article itself. I was just responding to the last comment emphasizing disempowerment in his post. On the matter of money changes everything, I was curious about the state of mental health funding and services in the USA since it is known that the USA spends more per capita on health care than most other developed countries and the article only alluded to relative changes due to government cutbacks. I was also struck by the fact
Re: [tips] What's normal about the normal curve?
Well, most things in psychology have numerous independent causes. Height is caused by at least several genes, your score on an exam is caused by answers to many individual questions, etc. The sum (i.e. adding) of independent events gets normal -- faster the more things you add (among other things). Example: Toss ONE coin, and record 0 for tails and 1 for heads. If this experiment - tossing one coin - is repeated long enough, you get about 50% heads and 50% tails (a flat or uniform distribution). Next toss two coins and record the total number of heads - it will either be 0, 1 or 2 heads. Repeat this experiment - two coins in one toss - and 25% of time you'll get 0 heads (TT) 50% of the time you'll get one head (since 1 head can be either TH or HT) and 25% of the time you'll get 2 heads (HH). With 0 1 and 2 heads on the X axis, it's not exactly a normal distribution but it is peaked at 1 head. When this is done by summing, say, number of heads when 5 or 6 coins are tossed in a single experiment, the resultant distribution (number of heads in one experiment) gets normal very fast (slower if the probability of a 'heads' is different than the probability of tails but it will still get to normal with enough coins in the experiment). Life is like coin tosses, no? Most everything we measure has multiple causes, so it should be no surprise that many things in the natural world are distributed normally .. though sometimes when a distribution has deviations from normality it's a clue about different underlying processes. IQ is somewhat normally distributed, though there is a little hump at the lower end (single gene effects?) and a slight bulge in the upper half (high IQ marrying other high IQ people?). Even when you measure the same exact thing over and over - like having all your students measure your height, their measurements will look normal .. classic psychological measurement theory would say that any measurement is the result of your true score added to an error component, and in many situations they assume error is unbiased, itself normally distributed, yaddy yaddy yaddy ... gets complicated quickly but the bottom line is that many things in the real world simply ARE normally distributed, or at least close enough to assume normality. A google search of the central limit theorem will give more precise information than this. On the other hand, I always tell my students to never take normality for granted, and merely LOOKING at data is the first step in determining if we can assume normality. Or at Yogi Berra put it, you can observe a lot by looking == John W. Kulig, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology Director, Psychology Honors Plymouth State University Plymouth NH 03264 == - Original Message - From: michael sylvester msylves...@copper.net To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:48:16 AM Subject: [tips] What's normal about the normal curve? Michael --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: ku...@mail.plymouth.edu . To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66454n=Tl=tipso=11063 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-11063-13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=11068 or send a blank email to leave-11068-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
[tips] Anatomy Education
Some subscribers to TIPS and TeachEdPsychk might be interested in a discussion-list post Anatomy Education [Hake (2011)]. What's anatomy education got to do with psychology education? Both suffer from a general failure to employ pre/post testing to gauge the effectiveness of their courses. The abstract reads: ABSTRACT: Robin Hopkins in a POD post Shift in the teaching of science wrote: I'm interested in the shift that is required of traditional anatomists as the medical school moves toward a curriculum that requires anatomy to be taught/learned in ways that are more aligned with the clinical application of anatomy than simply 'knowing' anatomy (usually for tests). If the tests are of the usual classroom type then they require only the regurgitation of memorized material rather than higher-order learning such as the understanding of scientific concepts. I suspect that higher-order learning is required for the *effective* clinical application of anatomy. In my opinion, the major shift is the teaching of science is the shift From Teaching to Learning: A New Paradigm for Undergraduate Education [Barr Tagg (1995)]. Unknown to most of academia, education researchers have developed Concept Inventories http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_inventory that can be used in *formative* pre/post testing to gauge the impact of courses on students' learning and understanding of scientific concepts. At least in physics such testing demonstrates that Traditional (T) passive-student lecture courses result in course-averaged normalized learning gains g that are about two-standard deviations below those of Interactive Engagement (IE) courses. I give 28 hot-linked references to some of the relevant literature. *** To access the complete 22 kB post please click on http://bit.ly/m8e4v2. Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University Honorary Member, Curmudgeon Lodge of Deventer, The Netherlands President, PEdants for Definitive Academic References which Recognize the Invention of the Internet (PEDARRII) rrh...@earthlink.net http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi http://HakesEdStuff.blogspot.com http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake ['Educating Physicians'] is a very important book that comes at a critical time in our nation's history. We will not have enduring health care reform in this country unless we rethink our medical education paradigms. This book is a call to arms for doing just that. George E. Thibault, president, Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation REFERENCES [URL's shortened by http://bit.ly/ and accessed on 19 June 2011.] Cooke, M., D.M. Irby, B.C. O'Brien. 2010. Forward by Lee S. Shulman. Educating Physicians: A Call for Reform of Medical School and Residency. Jossey-Bass, publisher's information at http://bit.ly/d52HEP. Amazon.com information at http://amzn.to/jhZJ0l. Note the searchable Look Inside feature. Hake, R.R. 2011. Anatomy Education, online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at http://bit.ly/m8e4v2. Post of 19 Jun 2011 14:15:36-0700 to AERA-L and NetGold. The abstract and link to the complete 22 kB post are being transmitted to various discussion lists and are also on my blog Hake'sEdStuff at http://bit.ly/jskdvE with a provision for comments. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=11069 or send a blank email to leave-11069-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] What's normal about the normal curve?
Hi Here's a simple spss simulation of John's point about sums of multiple discrete factors being normally distributed. Just cut and paste into spss syntax window. input program. loop o = 1 to 1000. end case. end loop. end file. end input program. compute score = 0. do repeat v = v1 to v25. compu v = rv.uniform(0,1) .5. end repeat. compute score1 = v1. compute score2 = sum(v1 to v2). compute score3 = sum(v1 to v3). compute score4 = sum(v1 to v4). compute score9 = sum(v1 to v9). compute score16 = sum(v1 to v16). compute score25 = sum(v1 to v25). freq score1 to score25 /form = notable /hist norm. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca John Kulig ku...@mail.plymouth.edu 20-Jun-11 4:38 AM Well, most things in psychology have numerous independent causes. Height is caused by at least several genes, your score on an exam is caused by answers to many individual questions, etc. The sum (i.e. adding) of independent events gets normal -- faster the more things you add (among other things). Example: Toss ONE coin, and record 0 for tails and 1 for heads. If this experiment - tossing one coin - is repeated long enough, you get about 50% heads and 50% tails (a flat or uniform distribution). Next toss two coins and record the total number of heads - it will either be 0, 1 or 2 heads. Repeat this experiment - two coins in one toss - and 25% of time you'll get 0 heads (TT) 50% of the time you'll get one head (since 1 head can be either TH or HT) and 25% of the time you'll get 2 heads (HH). With 0 1 and 2 heads on the X axis, it's not exactly a normal distribution but it is peaked at 1 head. When this is done by summing, say, number of heads when 5 or 6 coins are tossed in a single experiment, the resultant distribution (number of heads in one experiment) gets normal very fast (slower if the probability of a 'heads' is different than the probability of tails but it will still get to normal with enough coins in the experiment). Life is like coin tosses, no? Most everything we measure has multiple causes, so it should be no surprise that many things in the natural world are distributed normally .. though sometimes when a distribution has deviations from normality it's a clue about different underlying processes. IQ is somewhat normally distributed, though there is a little hump at the lower end (single gene effects?) and a slight bulge in the upper half (high IQ marrying other high IQ people?). Even when you measure the same exact thing over and over - like having all your students measure your height, their measurements will look normal .. classic psychological measurement theory would say that any measurement is the result of your true score added to an error component, and in many situations they assume error is unbiased, itself normally distributed, yaddy yaddy yaddy ... gets complicated quickly but the bottom line is that many things in the real world simply ARE normally distributed, or at least close enough to assume normality. A google search of the central limit theorem will give more precise information than this. On the other hand, I always tell my students to never take normality for granted, and merely LOOKING at data is the first step in determining if we can assume normality. Or at Yogi Berra put it, you can observe a lot by looking == John W. Kulig, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology Director, Psychology Honors Plymouth State University Plymouth NH 03264 == - Original Message - From: michael sylvester msylves...@copper.net To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:48:16 AM Subject: [tips] What's normal about the normal curve? Michael --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: ku...@mail.plymouth.edu . To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66454n=Tl=tipso=11063 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-11063-13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=11068 or send a blank email to leave-11068-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=11071 or send a blank email to leave-11071-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
