Re: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

[Paul C Bernhardt]

Thank you for the permission.

Shatner went back and forth between good and poor quality acting, IMO. 
Sometimes an entire series would evoke empathic embarrassment (TJ Hooker?). 
While other times, he’s over the top performance was a perfect fit for the 
character he was playing (Boston Legal).

I’ll never forget watching years later his stints in the early 60s on Twilight 
Zone and seeing at times a real actor practicing craft.

What you say is a man looking constantly for a way to cash in, I see as a man 
who constantly works and works hard. Look at the list of shows he’s appeared in.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm638/

That is a hard working man.

It’s not as if he expects to be given money, he’s obviously completely willing 
to work for it.

Paul

Paul C Bernhardt
Associate Professor of Psychology
Frostburg State University
pcbernhardt☞frostburg.edu





On Feb 16, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Mike Palij mailto:m...@nyu.edu>> 
wrote:

Y'all can go back to the discussing Shatner if you like.


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Re: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

[Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D.]

On Feb 16, 2015, at 1:58 AM, Jim Clark  wrote:

> For his offending over 30,000,000 Canadians who worship Bill Shatner

I wish to apologize to the citizens of Canada. I have no reason to doubt Jim’s 
statement that William Shatner is beloved by the entire population of your 
great nation.  :-)

In fact, I should think that he has nigh demigod status in your country, not 
only for his singing, but especially for his unequaled acting talent, as 
demonstrated in scenes like this one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqlrw5aguu0wk2z/Shatner%20Chewing%20Scenery.mp4?dl=0

Here is the highest praise I can give after watching this scene: William 
Shatner is to Canada as Christopher Walken is to the United States.  :-)

Am I forgiven?

Best,
Jeff
-- 
-
Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
-
Scottsdale Community College
9000 E. Chaparral Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85256-2626
Office: SB-123
Phone: (480) 423-6213
Fax: (480) 423-6298


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Re: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

[Mike Palij]

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 13:15:06 -0800, Jeffry Ricker wrote:

On Feb 15, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Mike Palij wrote:

Take a look at the following:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0018675#pone-0018675-g002
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654216/


Thanks, Mike. I shouldn't have dismissed so cavalierly the possible
association of measures of "empathy." I still sometimes forget my
dissertation advisor's comment every time I did something similar:
"it's an empirical question."


I don't want to come off a killjoy by I am surprised at how this
thread had turned into a Shatner lovefest.  I'm an old school
"Star Trek" fan but if one just searches Amazon for "William
Shatner" and/or google his names, one will find that he has been
a shameless self-promoter all of his life who may have had
sincere intentions in all of the things he's done (i.e. the TV
shows, the movies, the books he's "written", etc.) but who
seems mostly interested in making a buck.  As a piece of
advice, I suggest Shatner's book but only for purely ironic
purposes:
http://www.amazon.com/Get-Life-William-Shatner/dp/0671021311/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1424100891&sr=8-13&keywords=%22william+shatner%22
NOTE: a hardcover copy is apparently available for $0.01 -- the shipping
costs more.

I mean, it looks like the following holds in this thread:
Shatner fanboy enthusiasm >> instances of student presentations that
evoked vicarious embarrassment.

Seriously, I have had to sit through student presentations where
that were cringe-worthy but which the student was blissfully unaware
of how awful they were.  These students, I think, are most
difficult to provide useful feedback to because one could focus
on technical aspects (e.g., more detailed background needs to
be included, cute cartoon figures that serve only to take up space
on a powerpoint slide, etc) but it's more difficult to handle the
lack of meta-cognitive awareness ("What do you mean there were
problems with my presentation? I thought it was a terrific 
presentation!").

I feel embarrassed for these students.

In some ways, students who do a poor presentation and know it are
easier to provide feedback because they appear to be more open
to advice on technical points as well as being appropriately 
self-critical

about their presentations. I may have cringed during these presentations
but I know that they can do better.

I've also had students who gave technically good presentations but it
was obvious that they were insecure or nervous and were making
negative attributions about their performance.  The students seem to
discount positive feedback -- telling them that they did a good job
covering all of the points but need to work on their style of 
presentation.

I feel sympathy for these students because for whatever reason, they
are being too self-critical and overly negative.  They need to be more
reasonable in judging themselves, more objective in evaluating what
they did right and what they did wrong and the magnitude of these
things.   I usually tell them that practice, that doing this in real 
life

situations will help them get better.

Just my thoughts.

Y'all can go back to the discussing Shatner if you like.

-Mike Palij
New York University
m...@nyu.edu

P.S. The timing of Jeffry's posting made me think that it was in 
response

to the postings of a Tipster.  I guess I was wrong. ;-)







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Re: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

[Rick Stevens]

Personally, I thought that Shatner was having fun and I did not need to be
embarrassed for him.  For the not easily embarrassed for others, both
Shatner and Nimoy have whole albums and there is one that has both
artists(?) on one.

http://www.amazon.com/Seeking-Major-Tom-William-Shatner/dp/B005HMUPYW/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1424093796&sr=1-2&keywords=william+shatner

http://www.amazon.com/Spocks-Music-From-Outer-Space/dp/B014WR

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089JE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B014WR&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1WH7GRY22SBXVJV5YHS2

Actually, each one had 5 or 6 titles on Amazon.  Something must have been
reinforcing the behavior.

Rick Stevens
School of Behavioral and Social Sciences
University of Louisiana at Monroe


On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Jim Clark  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Hi
>
>
>
> For his offending over 30,000,000 Canadians who worship Bill Shatner
> (along with that other great Montreal speak-singer, Leonard Cohen), Jeff
> must listen multiple times to the following rendition of O Canada by none
> other than William Shatner … and in its entirety!
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRTwPyIzY4A
>
>
>
> Take care
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Jim Clark
>
> Professor & Chair of Psychology
>
> University of Winnipeg
>
> 204-786-9757
>
> Room 4L41A (4th Floor Lockhart)
>
> www.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D. [mailto:jeff.ric...@scottsdalecc.edu]
> *Sent:* February-15-15 12:08 PM
> *To:* Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
> *Subject:* [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The question in the subject line is concerned with situations in which the
> other person is not embarrassed at all by behavior that, for observers, is
> cringe-inducing. The best example I can think of is this clip of William
> Shatner "singing" Rocket Man in 1978 (I've been unable to watch more than
> the first 25 seconds):
>
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ivimx2lu2kybiy/William%20Shatner%20Rocket%20Man.mp4?dl=0
>
>
>
> The concept of empathy doesn't seem relevant: we typically feel empathy
> for another when they are experiencing a negative response (emotion or
> physical pain) that we understand all too well. In this case, the person
> we're observing, and feeling embarrassed for, seems oblivious to the social
> awkwardness of their behavior.
>
>
>
> *Does anyone know of any research on my question?*
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology
>
>
> -
> Scottsdale Community College
> 9000 E. Chaparral Road
> Scottsdale, AZ 85256-2626
> Office: SB-123
> Phone: (480) 423-6213
> Fax: (480) 423-6298
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
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Re: [tips] Gender Roles in Homosexual Relationships

[Michael Britt]

In response to Beth’s note about:

> why humans feel the need to categorize and break groups down into 
> subcategories. 

I guess the psychological need for categories is especially acute when it comes 
to sexual matters.  We’re so anxious about sex as it is and as the lines blur 
between what have long been two easily distinguishable categories (male/female) 
I would expect the need for categories would rise, if only so we can better 
understand (and explain to our students) what the differences are between 
people with different orientations, behaviors, etc. As the the next comment 
points out:

> in general, today's gay and lesbian communities are characterized by a 
> kaleidoscopic variety of "types" and a generally more playful attitude toward 
> gender.  Self-identified butch and femme lesbians still exist, but the rules 
> have loosened.  No one would be surprised to see two butch or two femme 
> lesbians forming a couple, for example.

Regarding “…a playful attitude towards gender”: I find that my gay friends 
(typical caveats: small sample size, confirmation bias, etc., etc.) do indeed 
seem to be more playful/tolerant about the variety of sexual behaviors we see 
today.  There’s almost a “Isn’t that quaint” response among young people  
(especially gays?) when they see the stereotypical male/female roles in 
heterosexual couples.
  
> McCreary (1994) pointed out how men who appear "effeminate" are more likely 
> to be perceived as gay, while women who have masculine traits may be less 
> likely to be seen as gay. 

An interesting observation.  Made in 1994 but still true - we allow women more 
leeway in how they express themselves than we do men.


Michael

Michael A. Britt, Ph.D.
mich...@thepsychfiles.com
http://www.ThePsychFiles.com
Twitter: @mbritt



> On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:08 PM, Beth Benoit  wrote:
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Sorry to be so late to respond to this thread but I just returned from a long 
> weekend (and a drive through horrible weather) but returned safely to New 
> Hampshire.  (Phew!)
> 
> I have taught a course in Human Sexuality for a while, and offer this 
> research...
> 
> First, from the text I use (by Simon LeVay and Janice Baldwin, 2012):
> 
> "During the 20th century, the diversity of gay people became much more 
> apparent (Faderman, 1991; Chauncey, 1994).  To accommodate this recognition, 
> a new idea took hold - that there are two kinds of lesbians and two kinds of 
> gay men.  The two kinds of lesbians were called butch and femme:  The butch 
> lesbians looked, dressed, and acted like men and took a dominant role in sex, 
> while the femme lesbians were like heterosexual women and took a submissive 
> role in sex.  A lesbian couple would consist of a butch-femme pair.  
> Similarly, gay men were thought to be of two kinds, sometimes referred to as 
> tops and bottoms:  Tops were defined by a preference for the insertive role 
> in anal intercourse and were relatively masculine and dominant generally, 
> while bottoms preferred the receptive role and were more feminine.  With this 
> thinking, lesbian and gay male relationships were "regularized."  Although 
> they were same​-sex relationships, they mimicked heterosexual relationships 
> in the sense that they were formed by the union of a more masculine-gendered 
> and a more feminine-gendered partner. 
> 
> This general conception of gay sexuality persisted through the 1950s and was 
> very much part of gay and lesbian culture.  According to an oral history of 
> mid-2oth century lesbian life in Buffalo, New York, young, working-class 
> women who entered the lesbian culture had to first figure out whether they 
> were butch or femme.  After this fateful decision was made, all their 
> relationships, social roles, and sexual behaviors were governed by their 
> identity as one or the other (Kennedy & Davis, 1983).
> 
> ​To some degree, this culture of complementary gender types still exists 
> today.  The 10-year-old son of a lesbian couple living in Decatur, Georgia, 
> put it this way:  "One of my moms id kind of like my dad, and my other mom is 
> the girly mom" (Bagby, 2008).  But in general, today's gay and lesbian 
> communities are characterized by a kaleidoscopic variety of "types" and a 
> generally more playful attitude toward gender.  Self-identified butch and 
> femme lesbians still exist, but the rules have loosened.  No one would be 
> surprised to see two butch or two femme lesbians forming a couple, for 
> example.
> 
> In addition, the lesbian/straight and gay/straight dichotomies are themselves 
> under siege, especially among women.  While some women remain out-and-out 
> lesbians, others move fluidly between relationships with both men and women 
> (Diamond, 2008).  Of course, one might call these women bisexuals...rather 
> than lesbians.  However, they may reject any such labels themselves, 
> preferring to define their sexual desires in terms of the specific people 
> they are attracted to, rather t

RE: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

[Jim Clark]

Hi

For his offending over 30,000,000 Canadians who worship Bill Shatner (along 
with that other great Montreal speak-singer, Leonard Cohen), Jeff must listen 
multiple times to the following rendition of O Canada by none other than 
William Shatner ... and in its entirety!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRTwPyIzY4A

Take care
Jim

Jim Clark
Professor & Chair of Psychology
University of Winnipeg
204-786-9757
Room 4L41A (4th Floor Lockhart)
www.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark


From: Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D. [mailto:jeff.ric...@scottsdalecc.edu]
Sent: February-15-15 12:08 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Why do we feel "embarrassed for others"?

Hi all,

The question in the subject line is concerned with situations in which the 
other person is not embarrassed at all by behavior that, for observers, is 
cringe-inducing. The best example I can think of is this clip of William 
Shatner "singing" Rocket Man in 1978 (I've been unable to watch more than the 
first 25 seconds):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ivimx2lu2kybiy/William%20Shatner%20Rocket%20Man.mp4?dl=0

The concept of empathy doesn't seem relevant: we typically feel empathy for 
another when they are experiencing a negative response (emotion or physical 
pain) that we understand all too well. In this case, the person we're 
observing, and feeling embarrassed for, seems oblivious to the social 
awkwardness of their behavior.

Does anyone know of any research on my question?

Best,
Jeff

--
-
Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
-
Scottsdale Community College
9000 E. Chaparral Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85256-2626
Office: SB-123
Phone: (480) 423-6213
Fax: (480) 423-6298



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