Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
Another issue that I felt deserved a separate reply: Do we want to in the more traditional educational settings say that degrees from for-profit schools are not allowed for people at state and private non-profit schools. That the philosophy of education is so different between the two systems that the state/non-profit private schools should take care to keep the door closes to candidates with for-profit backgrounds. It is an intriguing issue. On the one hand, you are saying that all individuals who make the choice of a for-profit school are unworthy of teaching at our traditional schools (even though some might end up being outstanding educators/researchers/administrators, etc. That is, aren't we being unfair to individuals if we reject them out of hand because of the name of the school on their degree without investigating the particulars? On the other hand, when we have so many well-qualified candidates who don't have for-profit degrees is it right for us to effectively undermine the sustainability of non-profit/state schools by not hiring people who get their degrees through their (usually) more rigorous and trustable programs? That is, by hiring from schools that resemble us in their model of education don't we ensure the future generations of those schools which we are fairly justified in thinking provide superior education and preparation for supporting the traditional schools of the future? Paul On Oct 19, 2012, at 7:14 AM, Michael Britt wrote: > One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was > thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's > worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional > schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more > than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field > experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical > position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to > see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look > upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? > > Michael > > Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. > mich...@thepsychfiles.com > http://www.ThePsychFiles.com > Twitter: mbritt > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: pcbernha...@frostburg.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263003&n=T&l=tips&o=21161 > or send a blank email to > leave-21161-13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21174 or send a blank email to leave-21174-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
As others have said, this issue is popping up in our applicant pools. We had discussions of applicants who had online degrees (not necessarily UoP) and some on the committee argued for rejection on its face because of lack of trust of such degrees while others (myself) argued that you have to look more deeply into the particulars of that person's degree if the person looks otherwise well-qualified, as described below by Michael. I have a relatively unique background in that my wife has a UoP Master's degree in Education. I watched her go through it and learned a lot about UoP that informed my perspective. First, some myth-busting: UoP is not an exclusively online institution, contrary to popular assumption. Nearly all my wife's credits were earned in classroom instruction in Salt Lake City. UoP has classroom buildings all over the country, basically leased office space fitted with classroom facilities. One term in which she was traveling for her employer (eBay) she was out of town and took 2 classes online (online classes were also more expensive than in-person classes, at least at that time). She told me some things that fit what we see in a lot of our undergraduate classes: Some very engaged students who really work the material and try hard (such as my wife) and others who were very willing to simply show up and get credits without much effort and occasionally even be a bit disruptive to the process. Disruptive because one of the main features of UoP courses are (or were at that time) peer learning/study groups. Slackers can be a real problem in any group work and it may be an even worse problem in UoP classes because of what I see as a 'one structure fits all' model such that all classes have the peer study group feature mandated. The students are often in cohorts that take classes together such that the persistence of some slackers can create ongoing issues for a cohort. So, what I learned is if you have a candidate from a for-profit university that gets to the point of the phone interview, you have legitimate basis for asking unique questions about their education, what they learned (rather than the assumptions we often make about what they learned) and about the characteristics of their dissertation work (maybe even ask for a copy of the dissertation). From that you will learn if they were the kind of student we generally expect our prospective faculty to have been. Paul On Oct 19, 2012, at 7:14 AM, Michael Britt wrote: > One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was > thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's > worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional > schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more > than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field > experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical > position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to > see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look > upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? > > Michael > > Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. > mich...@thepsychfiles.com > http://www.ThePsychFiles.com > Twitter: mbritt > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: pcbernha...@frostburg.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263003&n=T&l=tips&o=21161 > or send a blank email to > leave-21161-13441.4e79e96ebb5671bdb50111f18f263...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21173 or send a blank email to leave-21173-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
We just had a discussion about that when we were hiring. We deemed such a degree (or attempt at a degree) a big detriment to the application. We were also concerned that such a person might advocate for online, for-profit graduate programs to our students. Marie Marie Helweg-Larsen, Ph.D. Associate Professor l Department of Psychology Kaufman 168 l Dickinson College Phone 717.245.1562 l Fax 717.245.1971 Office hours: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday 10:30-11:30 http://users.dickinson.edu/~helwegm/index.html From: Steven Specht [mailto:sspe...@utica.edu] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:33 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix I agree. We have had several applicants with on-line degrees (Ph.D. or Psy.D.). Without even getting into comparison of quality of programs, I have typically not seen any publication or presentation record. If you're applying for an academic position, this is a distinct drawback. == Steven M. Specht, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology Chair, Department of Psychology Utica College Utica, NY 13502 (315) 792-3171 monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com<http://monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com> == "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. On Oct 19, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Mark Casteel wrote: Hi Michael. As I understand it, APA will not accredit a fully on-line doctoral program, so none of the PhD programs at Phoenix have APA accreditation. If your listener were applying for a job to a traditional institution where both research and teaching are emphasized for a job, this would likely be a deal breaker. I would also expect this person would have fewer (if any) publications coming out of an on-line program, which would also be a big problem. *** Mark A. Casteel, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Penn State York 1031 Edgecomb Avenue York, PA 17403 (717) 771-4028 -Original Message- From: Michael Britt [mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com]<mailto:[mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com]> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 7:14 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? Michael Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. mich...@thepsychfiles.com<mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com> http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: ma...@psu.edu<mailto:ma...@psu.edu>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3dba&n=T &l=tips&o=21161 or send a blank email to leave-21161-13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-21161-13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5340 - Release Date: 10/18/12 --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: sspe...@utica.edu<mailto:sspe...@utica.edu>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13522.468cbac056133a996283cca7e2976336&n=T&l=tips&o=21162 or send a blank email to leave-21162-13522.468cbac056133a996283cca7e2976...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-21162-13522.468cbac056133a996283cca7e2976...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: helw...@dickinson.edu<mailto:helw...@dickinson.edu>. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13234.b0e864a6eccfc779c8119f5a4468797f&n=T&l=tips&o=21169 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-21169-13234.b0e864a6eccfc779c8119f5a44687...@fsulist.frostburg.edu<mailto:leave-21169-13234.b0e864a6eccfc779c8119f5a44687...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21170 or send a blank email to leave-21170-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
I agree. We have had several applicants with on-line degrees (Ph.D. or Psy.D.). Without even getting into comparison of quality of programs, I have typically not seen any publication or presentation record. If you're applying for an academic position, this is a distinct drawback. == Steven M. Specht, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology Chair, Department of Psychology Utica College Utica, NY 13502 (315) 792-3171 monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com == "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. On Oct 19, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Mark Casteel wrote: > Hi Michael. As I understand it, APA will not accredit a fully on-line > doctoral program, so none of the PhD programs at Phoenix have APA > accreditation. If your listener were applying for a job to a traditional > institution where both research and teaching are emphasized for a job, this > would likely be a deal breaker. I would also expect this person would have > fewer (if any) publications coming out of an on-line program, which would > also be a big problem. > > *** > Mark A. Casteel, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Psychology > Penn State York > 1031 Edgecomb Avenue > York, PA 17403 > (717) 771-4028 > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Britt [mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com] > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 7:14 AM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > Subject: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix > > One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was > thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's > worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional > schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more > than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field > experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical > position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to > see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look > upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? > > Michael > > Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. > mich...@thepsychfiles.com > http://www.ThePsychFiles.com > Twitter: mbritt > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: ma...@psu.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3dba&n=T > &l=tips&o=21161 > or send a blank email to > leave-21161-13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5340 - Release Date: 10/18/12 > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: sspe...@utica.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13522.468cbac056133a996283cca7e2976336&n=T&l=tips&o=21162 > or send a blank email to > leave-21162-13522.468cbac056133a996283cca7e2976...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21169 or send a blank email to leave-21169-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
My apologies. I misread the original post. I thought it was about getting into grad school with an undergrad degree from Phoenix, not about getting a traditional (academic?) position with graduate degrees from there. Although one can focus on the perceived quality of for-profit ed (and I think Mark has hit on a critical roadblock), the more general issue is: are you going to be at the top of a pool of a hundred or more applications or are you putting obstacles in your way? One of the problems graduate students have in making the transition to the job market is that they have always been in a relatively non-competitive environment (despite what they might think) -- everyone who reaches a certain criterion is going to get their PhD. Schools don't quota the number of PhDs that they give per year so that, say, only the top few can get a degree and everyone else will be forced to try again next year (or the year after that...). Getting a job, especially in the current market, is an entirely different proposition -- there are only so many posts, and in order to get one you have to be better than everyone else who applied. There is no "minimum criterion" that will get you the job. When you consider that a lot of jobs have 100 or more applicants now, that means the search committee's first pass through the applications is going to be about weeding out 90% of those applications so that the can focus on the top 10% and, ultimately, hire just one person. Degree from school of dubious reputation? Out. No postdoc? Out. Not enough (first author) publications? Out. Letters that say less than you walk on water? Out. It isn't that rough with every singe job, but the idea that you're going to be able to slide by with less-than-extraordinary qualifications and get a tenure-track job these days is not terribly realistic. There are just too many extraordinary people out there for that to be very likely. Chris --- Christopher D. Green Department of Psychology York University Toronto, ON M3J 1P3 Canada chri...@yorku.ca http://www.yorku.ca/christo/ = On 2012-10-19, at 7:29 AM, Mark Casteel wrote: > Hi Michael. As I understand it, APA will not accredit a fully on-line > doctoral program, so none of the PhD programs at Phoenix have APA > accreditation. If your listener were applying for a job to a traditional > institution where both research and teaching are emphasized for a job, this > would likely be a deal breaker. I would also expect this person would have > fewer (if any) publications coming out of an on-line program, which would > also be a big problem. > > *** > Mark A. Casteel, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Psychology > Penn State York > 1031 Edgecomb Avenue > York, PA 17403 > (717) 771-4028 > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Britt [mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com] > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 7:14 AM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > Subject: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix > > One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was > thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's > worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional > schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more > than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field > experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical > position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to > see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look > upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? > > Michael > > Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. > mich...@thepsychfiles.com > http://www.ThePsychFiles.com > Twitter: mbritt > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: ma...@psu.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3dba&n=T > &l=tips&o=21161 > or send a blank email to > leave-21161-13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5340 - Release Date: 10/18/12 > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: chri...@yorku.ca. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62bd92&n=T&l=tips&o=21162 > or send a blank email to > leave-21162-430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21167 or send a blank email to leave-21167-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
I would think that GRE success would be particularly important here. Many people are suspicious of the quality of for-profit, online post-sec education. To be taken seriously, she will need independent confirmation that she is competitive with other applicants. GREs provide that. Just my $.02. Chris --- Christopher D. Green Department of Psychology York University Toronto, ON M3J 1P3 Canada chri...@yorku.ca http://www.yorku.ca/christo/ = On 2012-10-19, at 7:14 AM, Michael Britt wrote: > One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was > thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's > worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional > schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more > than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field > experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical > position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to > see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look > upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? > > Michael > > Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. > mich...@thepsychfiles.com > http://www.ThePsychFiles.com > Twitter: mbritt > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: chri...@yorku.ca. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62bd92&n=T&l=tips&o=21161 > or send a blank email to > leave-21161-430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21164 or send a blank email to leave-21164-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix
Hi Michael. As I understand it, APA will not accredit a fully on-line doctoral program, so none of the PhD programs at Phoenix have APA accreditation. If your listener were applying for a job to a traditional institution where both research and teaching are emphasized for a job, this would likely be a deal breaker. I would also expect this person would have fewer (if any) publications coming out of an on-line program, which would also be a big problem. *** Mark A. Casteel, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Penn State York 1031 Edgecomb Avenue York, PA 17403 (717) 771-4028 -Original Message- From: Michael Britt [mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 7:14 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: [tips] Opinion of University of Phoenix One of my listeners is currently getting her BA in psych from UoP and was thinking of going on to getting a Master's and a Ph.D. from there. She's worried about how these degrees from UoP will be looked upon by traditional schools when she goes applying for jobs. I have to admit I might be more than a bit curious as to exactly what classes she took and what field experiences she had as part of the program (especially if it's a clinical position obviously) and of course I'd look carefully at her dissertation to see if it was good quality research. Other thoughts? How would you look upon a candidate with a degree from UoP? Michael Michael A. Britt, Ph.D. mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: ma...@psu.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3dba&n=T &l=tips&o=21161 or send a blank email to leave-21161-13372.4251c47fdf0b43ddd1e5bf28bc6f3...@fsulist.frostburg.edu - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5340 - Release Date: 10/18/12 --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=21162 or send a blank email to leave-21162-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
