Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature - changed logic
In meantime I added a progress indicator. All sent characters are shown inverted. So you can see how many characters you are ahead of the keyer. 73, de Tom DL1JBE Am Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:52:30 +0100 schrieb Thomas Beierlein : > Hi all, > > I did an experimental change of the autosend logic. The fixed 0.7 > secongs timeout after you stop typing is gone. > > Tlf now guesses the expected time to finish sending the call. If you > type in characters after autosend starts time for the new characters > gets added to the timeout. As soon as the cw output catches up it > switches automatically to the exchange field. > > I hope that fixes problems with long complicated calls (e.g. > PA0/DL1JBE/p). > > Until now it is only tested with cwdaemon (will not work with 0.9.4). > I am especially interested how it works with the Winkeyer interface > > Please test (see below how to get it and compile) and give > feedback. > > 73, de Tom DL1JBE. > > > Am Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:42:24 +0100 > schrieb Thomas Beierlein : > > > Hi all, > > > > just implemented the first suggestion from Martin: > > > > Am Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:06:33 +0100 > > schrieb Martin Kratoska : > > > - an indicator of the ON state of Autosend. I suggest different > > > color in the call field till the "length" set, ie. if :char set to > > > 4, the first 4 characters in the call field should have different > > > background color. If the color change is a problem, there should > > > be a vertical bar instead, an asterisk or arrow etc. > > > > > Please download the zip archive from > > https://github.com/Tlf/tlf/archive/autosend.zip unpack it and then > > change to the directory. > > > > 'autoreconf --install' > > './configure ' > > 'make' > > 'make install' > > > > It does not use a different color but marks the start of the > > autosend by underlining the rest of the input field. Try it and > > please give feedback. > > > > Tom DL1JBE > > > > > > > -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature - changed logic
Hi all, I did an experimental change of the autosend logic. The fixed 0.7 secongs timeout after you stop typing is gone. Tlf now guesses the expected time to finish sending the call. If you type in characters after autosend starts time for the new characters gets added to the timeout. As soon as the cw output catches up it switches automatically to the exchange field. I hope that fixes problems with long complicated calls (e.g. PA0/DL1JBE/p). Until now it is only tested with cwdaemon (will not work with 0.9.4). I am especially interested how it works with the Winkeyer interface Please test (see below how to get it and compile) and give feedback. 73, de Tom DL1JBE. Am Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:42:24 +0100 schrieb Thomas Beierlein : > Hi all, > > just implemented the first suggestion from Martin: > > Am Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:06:33 +0100 > schrieb Martin Kratoska : > > - an indicator of the ON state of Autosend. I suggest different > > color in the call field till the "length" set, ie. if :char set to > > 4, the first 4 characters in the call field should have different > > background color. If the color change is a problem, there should be > > a vertical bar instead, an asterisk or arrow etc. > > > Please download the zip archive from > https://github.com/Tlf/tlf/archive/autosend.zip unpack it and then > change to the directory. > > 'autoreconf --install' > './configure ' > 'make' > 'make install' > > It does not use a different color but marks the start of the autosend > by underlining the rest of the input field. Try it and please give > feedback. > > Tom DL1JBE > > -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature - further suggestions
Hi all, just implemented the first suggestion from Martin: Am Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:06:33 +0100 schrieb Martin Kratoska : > - an indicator of the ON state of Autosend. I suggest different color > in the call field till the "length" set, ie. if :char set to 4, the > first 4 characters in the call field should have different background > color. If the color change is a problem, there should be a vertical > bar instead, an asterisk or arrow etc. > Please download the zip archive from https://github.com/Tlf/tlf/archive/autosend.zip unpack it and then change to the directory. 'autoreconf --install' './configure ' 'make' 'make install' It does not use a different color but marks the start of the autosend by underlining the rest of the input field. Try it and please give feedback. Tom DL1JBE -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature - first tests
Hi Martin, Am Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:05:42 +0100 schrieb Martin Kratoska : > Hi Tom et al, > > Dne 12.11.2013 10:07, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): > > Hi Martin, > > > > Am Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:33:09 +0100 > > schrieb Martin Kratoska : > >> there is something strange. tlf does not see now hamlib, so no > >> radio control :-( > >> > > Maybe you forgot the '--enable-hamlib' in the ./configure stage? > > Of course. Dumb me. A senior moment, apologies. > Never mind. I know such moments myself :-). > >> The Autosend option works but not exactly as meant. The auto > >> sending begins with the character count as set with :char command, > >> this is OK. Setting :char to 4 actually moves the cursor to the > >> exchange field while tlf is sending 2nd character. > > > > That depends a little on your typing speed. But you are right. It > > moves to the exchange field as soon as you stop typing. > > > > The reason for this behavior is that we can not do the same > > handling as in TRLog. As TRLog sends the CW characters itself > > (integrated keyer) it knows exactly how far it is with sending the > > already typed in characters and when it catches your typing. > > OK, I know, it is very hard task if tlf does use an external device. > My setup includes the K1EL's Winkey USB (the obsolete ver. 2.2) and > the Winkeyer daemon by OK2CQR > http://www.cqrlog.com/?q=node/149 > > (BTW what about integration of Winkey USB support into tlf code? This > excellent keyer is widely used among contesters/DXers using Windoze > software, it has also dual output/PTT facility making SO2R easier. > The PTT output not tested here yet because my K3 with KPA500 has > excellent QSK properties and absolutely trouble-free T/R switching). > Hmm. As far as i know the interface (via unix socket) is the same as for cwdaemon. What are the advantages of an integrated winkeyer daemon? Don't get me wrong - I am not against the idea, but want to have some idea about pro and con of that solution. > > For us using cwdaemon, the usbdaemon or Andys winkeyer daemon means > > we can send out the characters to the keying daemon but get no > > feedback how far it is with sending and therefore we have no > > information when the daemon catches your typing. > > BTW what is Andys winkeyer daemon? Where can I get it? He wrote shortly in the thread about it. Here is the link he gave: http://g4kno.com/software_it/jWinkeyServer/jWinkeyServer.html > ... > > Any ideas how to come around that are welcome. > > > Now, after some 3 hours of thorough testing at speeds varying fron 18 > to 45 WPM I am pretty sure that my other thoughts were false and > over-complicated. The main fact is that the typing speed is almost > constant, independent of the keying speed. Again, the timeout of 0.7s > is just fine. > > The Autosend option now seems solved, at least for me. Ok. So we have a first working solution. Fred mentioned a configurable timeout (I am not sure if it is needed, but let us see). There is another idea I want to try out, but I do not know when there will be time for it. So I think I will merge the autosend feature in the master branch and make it default. > >> Therefore the op has not > >> time till 4th character is finished, here I have time actually only > >> till 1st character is completed. > > > > Not quite. As described above you have 0.7 seconds for each > > character you want to type. > > > > 73, de Tom DL1JBE > > BTW many thanks for another very good version, Tom! Excellent work! > Yw. 73, de Tom DL1JBE. > 73, > Martin, OK1RR -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature - first tests
Hi Tom et al, Dne 12.11.2013 10:07, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): Hi Martin, Am Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:33:09 +0100 schrieb Martin Kratoska : there is something strange. tlf does not see now hamlib, so no radio control :-( Maybe you forgot the '--enable-hamlib' in the ./configure stage? Of course. Dumb me. A senior moment, apologies. The Autosend option works but not exactly as meant. The auto sending begins with the character count as set with :char command, this is OK. Setting :char to 4 actually moves the cursor to the exchange field while tlf is sending 2nd character. That depends a little on your typing speed. But you are right. It moves to the exchange field as soon as you stop typing. The reason for this behavior is that we can not do the same handling as in TRLog. As TRLog sends the CW characters itself (integrated keyer) it knows exactly how far it is with sending the already typed in characters and when it catches your typing. OK, I know, it is very hard task if tlf does use an external device. My setup includes the K1EL's Winkey USB (the obsolete ver. 2.2) and the Winkeyer daemon by OK2CQR http://www.cqrlog.com/?q=node/149 (BTW what about integration of Winkey USB support into tlf code? This excellent keyer is widely used among contesters/DXers using Windoze software, it has also dual output/PTT facility making SO2R easier. The PTT output not tested here yet because my K3 with KPA500 has excellent QSK properties and absolutely trouble-free T/R switching). For us using cwdaemon, the usbdaemon or Andys winkeyer daemon means we can send out the characters to the keying daemon but get no feedback how far it is with sending and therefore we have no information when the daemon catches your typing. BTW what is Andys winkeyer daemon? Where can I get it? So I suggested to use a timeout instead. As soon as you stop typing (atm after 0.7s) it assumes the call sign is complete and then it switches to the exchange field. It fear it is the best we can do without doing the whole keying stuff in tlf itself. Oh, this timeout is just OK for me, tailred almost perfectly to my typing speed - assumed that I don't make any erratic typing due to QRM/QN/QSB or other receivin 'diseases'. Anyway the op should learn that he should never type the last character until the received call sign is perfectly inderstood. This is essential for the Autosend operation, no matter if using TRlog with its integrated keyer or tlf with its timeout method. Any ideas how to come around that are welcome. Now, after some 3 hours of thorough testing at speeds varying fron 18 to 45 WPM I am pretty sure that my other thoughts were false and over-complicated. The main fact is that the typing speed is almost constant, independent of the keying speed. Again, the timeout of 0.7s is just fine. The Autosend option now seems solved, at least for me. Therefore the op has not time till 4th character is finished, here I have time actually only till 1st character is completed. Not quite. As described above you have 0.7 seconds for each character you want to type. 73, de Tom DL1JBE BTW many thanks for another very good version, Tom! Excellent work! 73, Martin, OK1RR ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Hi, I just finished the first quick version of the new autosend feature. Please download the zip archive from https://github.com/Tlf/tlf/archive/autosend.zip unpack it and then change to the directory. 'autoreconf --install' './configure ' 'make' 'make install' should build it. Some comments: - Set autostart with ':char' as before (0 - off, 2..5 sets, ESC keeps old value) - timeout is 0.7s (enough if you get a hiccup while typing, short enough to work even at 30 wpm and very short calls - call will accept also '/' and '?' characters - you can stop with ESC as before Please test and report back. I think autosend is only useful in RUN mode. I will block it for S&P if you aggree. 73, de Tom DL1JBE. Am Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:38:47 +0100 schrieb Fred Siegmund : > Indeed. > > 73 Fred > Am 07.11.2013 21:25, schrieb Martin Kratoska: > > Excellent! You hit the nail, Tom! > > > > 73, > > Martin, OK1RR > > > > Dne 7.11.2013 21:13, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): > >> Ok. Lets summarize: > >> > >> - autostart after 2..5 characters (configurable) > >> - shorter calls have to be finished with the normal ENTER > >> - as soon as autosend starts there will be no chance to edit bad > >>characters, all you type in will be send > >> - start sending exchange after a keyboard timeout (100..200 ms) > >> - only alfanumerical keys (and ENTER) accepted after autosend > >> starts > >> - SPACE and DOWN will no longer start autosend > >> - SPACE will toggle cursor between call and exchange input field > >> > >> 73, de Tom DL1JBE > > > > > > ___ > > Tlf-devel mailing list > > Tlf-devel@nongnu.org > > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel > > > > > > > ___ > Tlf-devel mailing list > Tlf-devel@nongnu.org > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Indeed. 73 Fred Am 07.11.2013 21:25, schrieb Martin Kratoska: Excellent! You hit the nail, Tom! 73, Martin, OK1RR Dne 7.11.2013 21:13, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): Ok. Lets summarize: - autostart after 2..5 characters (configurable) - shorter calls have to be finished with the normal ENTER - as soon as autosend starts there will be no chance to edit bad characters, all you type in will be send - start sending exchange after a keyboard timeout (100..200 ms) - only alfanumerical keys (and ENTER) accepted after autosend starts - SPACE and DOWN will no longer start autosend - SPACE will toggle cursor between call and exchange input field 73, de Tom DL1JBE ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Excellent! You hit the nail, Tom! 73, Martin, OK1RR Dne 7.11.2013 21:13, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): Ok. Lets summarize: - autostart after 2..5 characters (configurable) - shorter calls have to be finished with the normal ENTER - as soon as autosend starts there will be no chance to edit bad characters, all you type in will be send - start sending exchange after a keyboard timeout (100..200 ms) - only alfanumerical keys (and ENTER) accepted after autosend starts - SPACE and DOWN will no longer start autosend - SPACE will toggle cursor between call and exchange input field 73, de Tom DL1JBE ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Dne 7.11.2013 21:02, Thomas Beierlein napsal(a): Hi Andy, Am Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:45:51 + schrieb Andy Summers : Tom, you are right that there is no means of determining what characters have been sent from cwdaemon when you have sent a word to it, or a series of characters. I realised this when I wrote a winkey server for cwdaemon ( http://g4kno.com/software_it/jWinkeyServer/jWinkeyServer.html). Winkey provides a buffer and a pointer to the current location, but cwdaemon provides no means to pass this information back. This is essential if you want to edit the call after autosend starts. I'm not a slick CW op so I don't know how common that scenario is. Maybe Martin can tell us? I fear as soon as you got a call started (especially with a high speed in contest) you will effectively not be able to correct the letters you typed in. 73, de Tom In 1997 on Pantelleria expedition & CQ WPX Contest I was able to use TRlog with Autosend option at speeds up to 47 WPM. I am not a "wunderkind" :-) but some training helps. There is no need to correct possible typing errors, it is acceptable to send out a badly typed call and return back to the call input field, presumed that the program will send the corrected callsign again. Some guys have a problem when the call is not received correctly at first atempt. QRM/QRN/QSB may occur but a strong signal on a clean frequency must be received at first attempt - if not, the op should switch the Autosend feature off. Therefore I assume the fear is not relevant, Autosend is not for everyone. Alsdo the program should never think for the operator :-) 73, Martin, OK1RR ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Ok. Lets summarize: - autostart after 2..5 characters (configurable) - shorter calls have to be finished with the normal ENTER - as soon as autosend starts there will be no chance to edit bad characters, all you type in will be send - start sending exchange after a keyboard timeout (100..200 ms) - only alfanumerical keys (and ENTER) accepted after autosend starts - SPACE and DOWN will no longer start autosend - SPACE will toggle cursor between call and exchange input field 73, de Tom DL1JBE Am Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:12:48 +0100 schrieb Martin Kratoska : > I would prefer configurable count, not just 4 chars. Tested also 2 > characters, this works but with some hurry... Yes, usually the ENTER > is used when working the shorties. > > 73 > Martin, OK1RR > > Dne 6.11.2013 10:53, FS napsal(a): > > Hi Thomas, i would consider the autosend after 4 characters a > > interesting feature. To drop "Space" for manually starting this > > process would free this key to jump between callinput and > > exchangeinput (even for TRLOG this would be useful!). For the use > > with calls like P3N, it would be fine to use the normal log process > > and continue with ENTER. If the call is exacly 4 letters long, > > autosend should work anyway. > > > > 73 Fred > > > ___ > Tlf-devel mailing list > Tlf-devel@nongnu.org > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel -- "Do what is needful!" Ursula LeGuin: Earthsea -- ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Hi Andy, Am Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:45:51 + schrieb Andy Summers : > Tom, you are right that there is no means of determining what > characters have been sent from cwdaemon when you have sent a word to > it, or a series of characters. I realised this when I wrote a winkey > server for cwdaemon > ( http://g4kno.com/software_it/jWinkeyServer/jWinkeyServer.html). > Winkey provides a buffer and a pointer to the current location, but > cwdaemon provides no means to pass this information back. This is > essential if you want to edit the call after autosend starts. I'm not > a slick CW op so I don't know how common that scenario is. Maybe > Martin can tell us? > I fear as soon as you got a call started (especially with a high speed in contest) you will effectively not be able to correct the letters you typed in. 73, de Tom > Of course, it's possible to modify cw daemon to implement a buffer > and add the extra commands, but that's a whole other project :). > > 73 Andy, G4KNO. > > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Thomas Beierlein > wrote: > > > Hi Fred and Martin, > > > > I remember working on that autosend problem some time ago as we > > implented the ESC handling to stop CW or step back in fields. I just > > retested and right it does not work as I expected. > > > > As it seems that I did not really understand what that function > > should do until now here is how I read your last mails: > > > > - As soon as there are a minimum of characters (2..4) in the call > > input field tlf should start sending the call sign entered so far. > > - you can type further in call input and tlf will add that > > characters to the sending call > > - As soon as the keying buffer is empty it will react as if you had > > pressed Enter and complete with sending the exchange. > > - If you finally press Enter the qso gets logged. > > > > Is it that what you need? > > > > Problems: > > - How to handle calls shorter than that autostart value - use > > Enter as normally used? > > > > - Trlog does the complete cw generation by itself. It therefore > > knows when the sending buffer is empty. Neither cwdaemon nor the > > usbdaemon gives us any feedback about that. So we have only to > > options: a) guess when the buffer MAY be empty (depending on the cw > > speed) or b) use a little timeout after each key (say 100ms, may > > also depend on the speed). If that runs out it means you are > > finished with the call sign and tlf should proceed with the > > exchange. > > > > I would prefer option b), it relatively easy to implement. > > Any other suggestions? > > > > - Unluckily the different cwdaemon versions aroung (0.9.2, 0.9.4, > > 0.9.6 and 0.9.7) are working differently. I hope that all will > > react the same way when implementing the above. > > > > If I read your mails correctly the 'space' and 'down' handling to > > start early can be dropped. In the light of Rein's mail you cited > > Fred it seems they are only temporarily solutions. > > > > 73, de Tom DL1JBE > > > > > > Am Tue, 05 Nov 2013 01:55:36 + > > schrieb FS : > > > > > Ok, interesting indeed. The functionality is basicly there, but > > > broken. I always wondered what such a important key like "space" > > > does in TRLOG mode. Well, it just doesn't work like intended > > > (arrow down is the same). The same is true for the :char command > > > (autosend). See the original meaning: > > > http://pa0r.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/29/autostart_cw_for_tlf.html > > > > > > I think its a bug. ;-) > > > > > > 73 Fred > > > > > > On 11/04/2013 07:39 PM, Martin Kratoska wrote: > > > > Was: Re: [Tlf-devel] WAEDC QTC - v0.002 release :) > > > > --- > > > > Dne 3.11.2013 22:09, Fred Siegmund napsal(a): > > > > > Hi Martin, which autosend feature do you mean? I worked with > > > > > TRLOGLinux and was not very satisfied, namely > > > > > the bandmap is very slow and there some inherited things > > > > > from the original program that are very stupid. Like its > > > > > not possible to edit the complete log. These are points were > > > > > a distinct progression from TRLog is visible (already > > > > > developed by Rein). > > > > > > > > > > 73 Fred > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > > > > > the Autosend feature is that which is in TRlog activated with > > > > > > > > AUTO CALL TERMINATE = TRUE > > > > AUTO SEND CHARACTER COUNT = 4 > > > > > > > > (here the autosend starts at 4th character). Better is an > > > > example: > > > > > > > > OK1RRA comes back to your CQ and you want to reply. So you type > > > > OK1R (4 characters) and your program begins to send. You are > > > > now in a hurry (a bit :-) because you must complete typing the > > > > whole call till the sending procedure "catches" you, here you > > > > must add RA. Then follows the exchange, the first ENTER logs in > > > > the QSO. > > > > > > > > Some OPs hate this option, some (me including) are in love with > > > > this. Except typing the call
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
I would prefer configurable count, not just 4 chars. Tested also 2 characters, this works but with some hurry... Yes, usually the ENTER is used when working the shorties. 73 Martin, OK1RR Dne 6.11.2013 10:53, FS napsal(a): Hi Thomas, i would consider the autosend after 4 characters a interesting feature. To drop "Space" for manually starting this process would free this key to jump between callinput and exchangeinput (even for TRLOG this would be useful!). For the use with calls like P3N, it would be fine to use the normal log process and continue with ENTER. If the call is exacly 4 letters long, autosend should work anyway. 73 Fred ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Hi Thomas, i would consider the autosend after 4 characters a interesting feature. To drop "Space" for manually starting this process would free this key to jump between callinput and exchangeinput (even for TRLOG this would be useful!). For the use with calls like P3N, it would be fine to use the normal log process and continue with ENTER. If the call is exacly 4 letters long, autosend should work anyway. 73 Fred On 11/05/2013 11:44 AM, Thomas Beierlein wrote: Hi Fred and Martin, I remember working on that autosend problem some time ago as we implented the ESC handling to stop CW or step back in fields. I just retested and right it does not work as I expected. As it seems that I did not really understand what that function should do until now here is how I read your last mails: - As soon as there are a minimum of characters (2..4) in the call input field tlf should start sending the call sign entered so far. - you can type further in call input and tlf will add that characters to the sending call - As soon as the keying buffer is empty it will react as if you had pressed Enter and complete with sending the exchange. - If you finally press Enter the qso gets logged. Is it that what you need? Problems: - How to handle calls shorter than that autostart value - use Enter as normally used? - Trlog does the complete cw generation by itself. It therefore knows when the sending buffer is empty. Neither cwdaemon nor the usbdaemon gives us any feedback about that. So we have only to options: a) guess when the buffer MAY be empty (depending on the cw speed) or b) use a little timeout after each key (say 100ms, may also depend on the speed). If that runs out it means you are finished with the call sign and tlf should proceed with the exchange. I would prefer option b), it relatively easy to implement. Any other suggestions? - Unluckily the different cwdaemon versions aroung (0.9.2, 0.9.4, 0.9.6 and 0.9.7) are working differently. I hope that all will react the same way when implementing the above. If I read your mails correctly the 'space' and 'down' handling to start early can be dropped. In the light of Rein's mail you cited Fred it seems they are only temporarily solutions. 73, de Tom DL1JBE Am Tue, 05 Nov 2013 01:55:36 + schrieb FS : Ok, interesting indeed. The functionality is basicly there, but broken. I always wondered what such a important key like "space" does in TRLOG mode. Well, it just doesn't work like intended (arrow down is the same). The same is true for the :char command (autosend). See the original meaning: http://pa0r.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/29/autostart_cw_for_tlf.html I think its a bug. ;-) 73 Fred On 11/04/2013 07:39 PM, Martin Kratoska wrote: Was: Re: [Tlf-devel] WAEDC QTC - v0.002 release :) --- Dne 3.11.2013 22:09, Fred Siegmund napsal(a): > Hi Martin, which autosend feature do you mean? I worked with > TRLOGLinux and was not very satisfied, namely > the bandmap is very slow and there some inherited things from the > original program that are very stupid. Like its > not possible to edit the complete log. These are points were a > distinct progression from TRLog is visible (already > developed by Rein). > > 73 Fred Hi Fred, the Autosend feature is that which is in TRlog activated with AUTO CALL TERMINATE = TRUE AUTO SEND CHARACTER COUNT = 4 (here the autosend starts at 4th character). Better is an example: OK1RRA comes back to your CQ and you want to reply. So you type OK1R (4 characters) and your program begins to send. You are now in a hurry (a bit :-) because you must complete typing the whole call till the sending procedure "catches" you, here you must add RA. Then follows the exchange, the first ENTER logs in the QSO. Some OPs hate this option, some (me including) are in love with this. Except typing the call, you need only a single ENTER to make a complete QSO. Isn't nice such option? Also, many other progs have this feature... Of course, I make thorough tests of any TRLOGLinux version but it is still far away from an useful program. Many poor bottlenecks inherited from the obsolete DOS version - not only the impossibility to edit the complete log but the telnet operations, the hardcoded (thus very limited) support of quite few radio models, the predefined exchange types (an obvious quirk when the program tries to think for the operator) and much more. Anyway, TRlog (the original DOS version) introduced a new philosophy which is still unbeaten today. tlf should get much inspiration here. QTC handling in WAE is an example... CW/SSB contesters here know all the tricks of N1MM, TR4W, WriteLog and other powerful software packages used by winners. I believe that tlf should come close to these top runners. First if meets all requirements of top grade CW/SSB contesters, we should start with digimodes. Now (it seems at least to me) is too early,
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Tom, you are right that there is no means of determining what characters have been sent from cwdaemon when you have sent a word to it, or a series of characters. I realised this when I wrote a winkey server for cwdaemon ( http://g4kno.com/software_it/jWinkeyServer/jWinkeyServer.html). Winkey provides a buffer and a pointer to the current location, but cwdaemon provides no means to pass this information back. This is essential if you want to edit the call after autosend starts. I'm not a slick CW op so I don't know how common that scenario is. Maybe Martin can tell us? Of course, it's possible to modify cw daemon to implement a buffer and add the extra commands, but that's a whole other project :). 73 Andy, G4KNO. On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Thomas Beierlein wrote: > Hi Fred and Martin, > > I remember working on that autosend problem some time ago as we > implented the ESC handling to stop CW or step back in fields. I just > retested and right it does not work as I expected. > > As it seems that I did not really understand what that function should > do until now here is how I read your last mails: > > - As soon as there are a minimum of characters (2..4) in the call input > field tlf should start sending the call sign entered so far. > - you can type further in call input and tlf will add that characters > to the sending call > - As soon as the keying buffer is empty it will react as if you had > pressed Enter and complete with sending the exchange. > - If you finally press Enter the qso gets logged. > > Is it that what you need? > > Problems: > - How to handle calls shorter than that autostart value - use > Enter as normally used? > > - Trlog does the complete cw generation by itself. It therefore knows > when the sending buffer is empty. Neither cwdaemon nor the usbdaemon > gives us any feedback about that. So we have only to options: > a) guess when the buffer MAY be empty (depending on the cw speed) or > b) use a little timeout after each key (say 100ms, may also depend > on the speed). If that runs out it means you are finished with the > call sign and tlf should proceed with the exchange. > > I would prefer option b), it relatively easy to implement. > Any other suggestions? > > - Unluckily the different cwdaemon versions aroung (0.9.2, 0.9.4, 0.9.6 > and 0.9.7) are working differently. I hope that all will react the > same way when implementing the above. > > If I read your mails correctly the 'space' and 'down' handling to > start early can be dropped. In the light of Rein's mail you cited Fred > it seems they are only temporarily solutions. > > 73, de Tom DL1JBE > > > Am Tue, 05 Nov 2013 01:55:36 + > schrieb FS : > > > Ok, interesting indeed. The functionality is basicly there, but > > broken. I always wondered what such a important key like "space" does > > in TRLOG mode. Well, it just doesn't work like intended (arrow down > > is the same). The same is true for the :char command (autosend). > > See the original meaning: > > http://pa0r.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/29/autostart_cw_for_tlf.html > > > > I think its a bug. ;-) > > > > 73 Fred > > > > On 11/04/2013 07:39 PM, Martin Kratoska wrote: > > > Was: Re: [Tlf-devel] WAEDC QTC - v0.002 release :) > > > --- > > > Dne 3.11.2013 22:09, Fred Siegmund napsal(a): > > > > Hi Martin, which autosend feature do you mean? I worked with > > > > TRLOGLinux and was not very satisfied, namely > > > > the bandmap is very slow and there some inherited things from the > > > > original program that are very stupid. Like its > > > > not possible to edit the complete log. These are points were a > > > > distinct progression from TRLog is visible (already > > > > developed by Rein). > > > > > > > > 73 Fred > > > > > > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > > > the Autosend feature is that which is in TRlog activated with > > > > > > AUTO CALL TERMINATE = TRUE > > > AUTO SEND CHARACTER COUNT = 4 > > > > > > (here the autosend starts at 4th character). Better is an example: > > > > > > OK1RRA comes back to your CQ and you want to reply. So you type > > > OK1R (4 characters) and your program begins to send. You are now in > > > a hurry (a bit :-) because you must complete typing the whole call > > > till the sending procedure "catches" you, here you must add RA. > > > Then follows the exchange, the first ENTER logs in the QSO. > > > > > > Some OPs hate this option, some (me including) are in love with > > > this. Except typing the call, you need only a single ENTER to make > > > a complete QSO. Isn't nice such option? Also, many other progs have > > > this feature... > > > > > > Of course, I make thorough tests of any TRLOGLinux version but it is > > > still far away from an useful program. Many poor bottlenecks > > > inherited from the obsolete DOS version - not only the > > > impossibility to edit the complete log but the telnet operations, > > > the hardcoded (thus very limited) s
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Hi Fred and Martin, I remember working on that autosend problem some time ago as we implented the ESC handling to stop CW or step back in fields. I just retested and right it does not work as I expected. As it seems that I did not really understand what that function should do until now here is how I read your last mails: - As soon as there are a minimum of characters (2..4) in the call input field tlf should start sending the call sign entered so far. - you can type further in call input and tlf will add that characters to the sending call - As soon as the keying buffer is empty it will react as if you had pressed Enter and complete with sending the exchange. - If you finally press Enter the qso gets logged. Is it that what you need? Problems: - How to handle calls shorter than that autostart value - use Enter as normally used? - Trlog does the complete cw generation by itself. It therefore knows when the sending buffer is empty. Neither cwdaemon nor the usbdaemon gives us any feedback about that. So we have only to options: a) guess when the buffer MAY be empty (depending on the cw speed) or b) use a little timeout after each key (say 100ms, may also depend on the speed). If that runs out it means you are finished with the call sign and tlf should proceed with the exchange. I would prefer option b), it relatively easy to implement. Any other suggestions? - Unluckily the different cwdaemon versions aroung (0.9.2, 0.9.4, 0.9.6 and 0.9.7) are working differently. I hope that all will react the same way when implementing the above. If I read your mails correctly the 'space' and 'down' handling to start early can be dropped. In the light of Rein's mail you cited Fred it seems they are only temporarily solutions. 73, de Tom DL1JBE Am Tue, 05 Nov 2013 01:55:36 + schrieb FS : > Ok, interesting indeed. The functionality is basicly there, but > broken. I always wondered what such a important key like "space" does > in TRLOG mode. Well, it just doesn't work like intended (arrow down > is the same). The same is true for the :char command (autosend). > See the original meaning: > http://pa0r.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/29/autostart_cw_for_tlf.html > > I think its a bug. ;-) > > 73 Fred > > On 11/04/2013 07:39 PM, Martin Kratoska wrote: > > Was: Re: [Tlf-devel] WAEDC QTC - v0.002 release :) > > --- > > Dne 3.11.2013 22:09, Fred Siegmund napsal(a): > > > Hi Martin, which autosend feature do you mean? I worked with > > > TRLOGLinux and was not very satisfied, namely > > > the bandmap is very slow and there some inherited things from the > > > original program that are very stupid. Like its > > > not possible to edit the complete log. These are points were a > > > distinct progression from TRLog is visible (already > > > developed by Rein). > > > > > > 73 Fred > > > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > the Autosend feature is that which is in TRlog activated with > > > > AUTO CALL TERMINATE = TRUE > > AUTO SEND CHARACTER COUNT = 4 > > > > (here the autosend starts at 4th character). Better is an example: > > > > OK1RRA comes back to your CQ and you want to reply. So you type > > OK1R (4 characters) and your program begins to send. You are now in > > a hurry (a bit :-) because you must complete typing the whole call > > till the sending procedure "catches" you, here you must add RA. > > Then follows the exchange, the first ENTER logs in the QSO. > > > > Some OPs hate this option, some (me including) are in love with > > this. Except typing the call, you need only a single ENTER to make > > a complete QSO. Isn't nice such option? Also, many other progs have > > this feature... > > > > Of course, I make thorough tests of any TRLOGLinux version but it is > > still far away from an useful program. Many poor bottlenecks > > inherited from the obsolete DOS version - not only the > > impossibility to edit the complete log but the telnet operations, > > the hardcoded (thus very limited) support of quite few radio > > models, the predefined exchange types (an obvious quirk when the > > program tries to think for the operator) and much more. Anyway, > > TRlog (the original DOS version) introduced a new philosophy which > > is still unbeaten today. tlf should get much inspiration here. QTC > > handling in WAE is an example... > > > > CW/SSB contesters here know all the tricks of N1MM, TR4W, WriteLog > > and other powerful software packages used by winners. I believe > > that tlf should come close to these top runners. First if meets all > > requirements of top grade CW/SSB contesters, we should start with > > digimodes. Now (it seems at least to me) is too early, there is a > > danger that we will have an "universal multimode" program which > > does all, but does all quite bad, with many unnecessary typing etc. > > which can make a program useless for a tired operator, who is in a > > contest for whole weekend. > > > > Anyway, I am very ha
Re: [Tlf-devel] Autosend feature
Ok, interesting indeed. The functionality is basicly there, but broken. I always wondered what such a important key like "space" does in TRLOG mode. Well, it just doesn't work like intended (arrow down is the same). The same is true for the :char command (autosend). See the original meaning: http://pa0r.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/29/autostart_cw_for_tlf.html I think its a bug. ;-) 73 Fred On 11/04/2013 07:39 PM, Martin Kratoska wrote: Was: Re: [Tlf-devel] WAEDC QTC - v0.002 release :) --- Dne 3.11.2013 22:09, Fred Siegmund napsal(a): > Hi Martin, which autosend feature do you mean? I worked with TRLOGLinux > and was not very satisfied, namely > the bandmap is very slow and there some inherited things from the > original program that are very stupid. Like its > not possible to edit the complete log. These are points were a distinct > progression from TRLog is visible (already > developed by Rein). > > 73 Fred Hi Fred, the Autosend feature is that which is in TRlog activated with AUTO CALL TERMINATE = TRUE AUTO SEND CHARACTER COUNT = 4 (here the autosend starts at 4th character). Better is an example: OK1RRA comes back to your CQ and you want to reply. So you type OK1R (4 characters) and your program begins to send. You are now in a hurry (a bit :-) because you must complete typing the whole call till the sending procedure "catches" you, here you must add RA. Then follows the exchange, the first ENTER logs in the QSO. Some OPs hate this option, some (me including) are in love with this. Except typing the call, you need only a single ENTER to make a complete QSO. Isn't nice such option? Also, many other progs have this feature... Of course, I make thorough tests of any TRLOGLinux version but it is still far away from an useful program. Many poor bottlenecks inherited from the obsolete DOS version - not only the impossibility to edit the complete log but the telnet operations, the hardcoded (thus very limited) support of quite few radio models, the predefined exchange types (an obvious quirk when the program tries to think for the operator) and much more. Anyway, TRlog (the original DOS version) introduced a new philosophy which is still unbeaten today. tlf should get much inspiration here. QTC handling in WAE is an example... CW/SSB contesters here know all the tricks of N1MM, TR4W, WriteLog and other powerful software packages used by winners. I believe that tlf should come close to these top runners. First if meets all requirements of top grade CW/SSB contesters, we should start with digimodes. Now (it seems at least to me) is too early, there is a danger that we will have an "universal multimode" program which does all, but does all quite bad, with many unnecessary typing etc. which can make a program useless for a tired operator, who is in a contest for whole weekend. Anyway, I am very happy with tlf. This is the reason of my support of this software (TRLOGLinux and so2sdr being still ignored here...). Kudos to all authors and contributors, also my apologies that I am not a coder, I am just operator who can make some tests and suggest and old, forgotten feature. 73, Martin, OK1RR ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel ___ Tlf-devel mailing list Tlf-devel@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/tlf-devel
