RE: Apache/tomcat serving weird pages

[Mike DiChiappari]

I have tomcat 4.1.24 with apache 2.0.40-21.  I am not sure of the version 
of mod_jk2.  When the server was setup, the mod_jk2's that were available 
did not work (apache would display an error message when starting up).  We 
were able to find a mod_jk2 with the file name rh_ap2_t4110_mod_jk2.so.

Mike

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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Carl Olivier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Tomcat Users List' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Apache/tomcat serving weird pages
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:24:34 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I have had similar problems.
What version of Tomcat are you using?  It could be that your mod_jk2.so is
not of the correct version.  If you are using TC 5.0.19 you should be using
jk2.04
Carl
-Original Message-
From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 June 2004 01:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Apache/tomcat serving weird pages
I am seeing some weird behavior with Apache and Tomcat.  When I quickly
refresh the page from the browser, sometimes the wrong page appears.  We
have two web sites on our server with virtual hosts.  If I am reloading a
page on web site A, sometimes a page from web site B appears.  This seems
to only occur with JSPs.
I am using Apache 2.0, Tomcat 4.1.24, and I believe jk2.  I didn't
originally configure the server.  But this is how it seems to be
configured.  The workers2.properties file contains two workers - one for
each of the virtual web sites.  The lines look like:
worker=ajp13:localhost:8019.  The line for the other site uses 8009 for the
port.
The jk2.properties file is very simple.  It has the following two lines:
   handler.list = channerlSocket,request
   channelSocket.port = 8009
I am still looking into how to interpret these configuration files.  Any
ideas or pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
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Apache/tomcat serving weird pages

[Mike DiChiappari]

I am seeing some weird behavior with Apache and Tomcat.  When I quickly 
refresh the page from the browser, sometimes the wrong page appears.  We 
have two web sites on our server with virtual hosts.  If I am reloading a 
page on web site A, sometimes a page from web site B appears.  This seems 
to only occur with JSPs.

I am using Apache 2.0, Tomcat 4.1.24, and I believe jk2.  I didn't 
originally configure the server.  But this is how it seems to be 
configured.  The workers2.properties file contains two workers - one for 
each of the virtual web sites.  The lines look like: 
worker=ajp13:localhost:8019.  The line for the other site uses 8009 for the 
port.

The jk2.properties file is very simple.  It has the following two lines:
  handler.list = channerlSocket,request
  channelSocket.port = 8009
I am still looking into how to interpret these configuration files.  Any 
ideas or pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike 

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Re: Deployment problems in Redhat linux 8

[Mike DiChiappari]

I have gotten Tomcat 4.1.2 and JDK 1.4.0_01 going on RedHat 8 with no 
problems, so far.  I have mostly JSPs.  As far as JSPs are concerned, 
there don't appear to be issues with RedHat 8.

Mike

I deploy my struts based program in redhat 8 with Tomcat 4.1.17 and JDK
1.4.1_01. The problem i faced is when i point my browser (Internet
Explorer 6) to the program say http://hostname:8080/program/index.jsp
(or any other page, even tomcat root also the same) it will return a
empty page, and after i refresh the page the contents will come out.
Sometime, even i refresh it several times, it's still return empty page.


I don't have this problems when i deploy the exactly same program in the
Windows XP machine. Is there any specific configuration in tomcat for
deployment in linux.

Can anyone please help?

Thanks.

regards,
Stephen







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Re: I don¥t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

Mark,

Thank you for your candid response.  I believe I understand the point 
of Jakarta now.

We're happy not to have you use the software.  If you
read the documentation for other application servers,
you'll quickly find that there is an equal amount of
'geek' speak.


Since you say "we're" I assume you have had your hand in tomcat 
development.  If this is so, then I believe it is true that in order 
to be able to successfully use tomcat, one must be involved in it.  I 
am glad that is not true about other things in life.  For example, I 
can drive a car, but can't (and have no desire to) build or fix one.


Sad to say, but at some point you need to understand
the technology and know what you are doing in order to
accomplish a reasonably complex configuration.


I understand J2EE methodology, design standards, how to design, 
build, develop and code in Java.  I can figure out how to setup 
Weblogic, iPlanet, and JRun.  I guess I still am not savy enough to 
use tomcat.


Currently, I run Tomcat 4.12 and Apache 2.043 on a
Windows/2000 Pro development box with multiple virtual
hosts.


That's one of you (and I'm assuming you're a developer of tomcat)./



Complaining about what isn't is in general not in
anyone's best interest.  Rather than complain, do.  If
you don't wish to do, then don't complain.

I understand it if your management has asked you to
perform some application build on Tomcat, and your
experience has only been with vendor hand-holding.
It's time to start learning the basics, and not
vendor-speak.

This I think is the major cause of IT issues today.
People implement vendor solutions without
understanding the underlying technology used to meet
the business requirements.  This leads to people being
familiar with vendor implementations, and not the
underlying standards.

What happens when a vendor goes out of business?  What
happens when the vendor decides not to support your
favorite feature?  What happens when the vendor
decides not to implement your desired feature.

Sure they may lose your business, but it's hardly the
only business that they have.  However, what you've
lost is all the investment in vendor technology, since
you've not invested in the fundamentals underlying
that technology.

In short, you either change your business practices to
suit the technology that past [bad] decisions have
constrained you to, or you throw away a lot of
investment.


First of all, this thread was started by someone who could get no 
support and was complaining.  I'll leave it up to you to go through 
the mail archive to find the original poster (how do you like being 
referred to the mail archives).  At least with a vendor I have 
someone to yell at.  And I've seen that technique work.

Secondly, I am not so full of myself to take responsibility for an 
entire app server.  Yes, it is worth it to pay a few bucks to a 
company - just for the accountability.  When your medical software 
can not meet FDA guidelines or you get sued because of a bug in your 
app server - good luck.   I feel like I can depend on my app server 
vendor more than whoever is Jakarta.

Third, I'm not worried about my J2EE vendor going out of business. 
The entire point of J2EE is that it is a portable platform.  I've 
already ported between real J2EE app servers with little trouble.

Fourth, I've had success with much of the open source and Linux 
software.  We run Redhat with sendmail, Apache with PHP (Horde and 
IMP), and have built solutions with Xerces/Xalan.  My main complaint 
is with Jakarta/tomcat.  It really is awful.

Even though I disagree with you on just about every point, I am going 
to take your invitation.  Bye bye tomcat.

Mike



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RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

was a private message for the developers.  It seemed to be a blanket
complaint from an apparently annoyed person.


 I have been disappointed and frustrated by the  that
 is called documentation.  I stopped trying to get tomcat
 to work properly over a year ago.  Recently I looked into
 it again, and noticed little to no improvement.


So what problems are YOU having?


I give a sample configuration of tomcat in my response to Peng.




 I rate software on three important criteria: does it do what it is
 intended, can it be used easily, and is it maintainable.


I could show you messages from me over the past however long I have been on
the 'net where I express a view that most Open Source projects are written
by the cognoscenti for the cognoscenti with little concern for real people.
Most of them get to a point where they satisfy the parochial needs of their
developers, and then stagnate.

Tomcat is not such a project.  It is the reference platform for key Java
technologies.  As such, perhaps the developers are prioritized more towards
developing a technical reference than end-user supporting documentation.



Then I may have made an error.  I have been telling my business 
associates that tomcat is NOT a viable commercial server.  They 
recently said I was wrong.  In looking through the Jakarta web site I 
believe I saw the term "commercial quality" in regards to Tomcat.

Are you saying that for commercial applications, Tomcat should not be 
considered?

Mike

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Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

The documentation sure does need some work in certain areas, but it 
is hardly in the sad state that you claim it is in.

Okay, let me give a specific example.  I will describe to you a 
likely standard configuration for a server that would be used in a 
typical commercial setting.  Prove tomcat can handle this.  Prove the 
documentation is available in normal English.  I will also show you 
absolute geek-speak in the documentation.

Typical Server Configuration: tomcat serving pages through apache on 
port 80 for multiple (virtual) web sites on one web server.  How many 
out there have this?  Yes, you can get tomcat up and running on port 
8080 very quickly.  How often do you commerical software developers 
type http://www.company.com:8080/foo.jsp when visiting commercial 
sites?

Problems with the "documentation" (using the term liberally in this case):

1) First, no where on Jakarta's main site is it mentioned that some 
type of connector is needed to have tomcat serve page through Apache. 
I believe the connectors go by several names (mod_jk, mod_jk2, 
mod_webapp, and Catalina being some).  None of these are mentioned or 
are listed (there are certainly no links).

2) Lets say one wants to use a relatively new version of software - 
say Apache 2.0 with mod_jk2.  There is some nice background info on 
mod_jk2 at:

  http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-tomcat-connectors/jk2/doc/

Reading through that and links on that page is of little help. 
However, there appear to be other useful links on that page.

Configuration info for mod_jk2 is at:

http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-tomcat-connectors/jk2/doc/configtcex.html

This is in the second paragraph, "There is no need to use the jkjni 
logic to use normal socket".  Why would one care about "jkjni"?  How 
the hell is this even relevant to anything?

Now I could go on and on.  But what is the point.  It is just more 
geek speak.  And I haven't even gotten to other situations: running 
multiple instance of tomcat, having tomcat run on a different server, 
clustering, etc...

Why waste my time.  I'll vote with my feet and use something else. 
If developers aren't interested in making their software usable by 
writing clear documentation, I won't use it.

Mike

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RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

Notice that I didn't ask a question JOEL BERGMAN (are you a Jakarta
developer).  I simply chimed in when someone else expressed
dissatisfaction with this list.  I have been disappointed and
frustrated by the  that is called documentation.  I stopped
trying to get tomcat to work properly over a year ago.  Recently I
looked into it again, and noticed little to no improvement.

Note that my background is technical, with over twenty years of
building commercial quality software.  I don't believe in a lot of
pie-in-the-sky ideals in terms of software development.  I rate
software on three important criteria: does it do what it is intended,
can it be used easily, and is it maintainable.

In terms of tomcat, I give it a grade of incomplete on all three of
the above.  I can not tell if it does what its supposed to because I
can't get it to work with a reasonable amount of effort.

Here if my contribution to Jarkata and people looking for a low cost
Java solution.  Use JRUN (discalimer: I am not affiliated with
Macromedia in any way).  It is under $1000 and includes a full J2EE
implementation (JSP, servlets, EJB).  It looks like the installer
does all the stuff that mod_jk, mod_jk2, and mod_web are supposed to
(if anyone could get them to work).  A development version is
available for free.

Mike




 > -Original Message-

 From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 4:37 PM
 To: Tomcat Users List
 Subject: Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !


 I know the reason for this list - at least as it applies to Jakarta.
 It is meant to address the complete lack of adequate documentation
 for tomcat.


Are you volunteering to write some, Mike DiChiappari?  That is how things
get done: someone DOES them.

If you don't know enough, you could skim the mailing list looking for
questions, finding out when they were answered to the questioner's
satisfaction, and using that as your source material.

Or do you just want answers to YOUR questions?

	--- Noel


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Re: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

David,

You are a perfect case in point.  I want to use tomcat, but I am not 
a geek.  I want proper user level documentation.  I should not have 
to know about how a damn java app server works internally (nor how to 
build it) in order to setup one up and use it.

Is the point of Jarkata to keep geeks happily typing away or to 
provide something useful?  Software is not useful if you can't 
explain how to use it properly.

Mike


Hello Mike, John is right. i subscribe to 6 technical mailing lists. 
that's a lot of traffic but i can handle suscribing to this many 
lists because i learned how to build my own email server running on 
a fast linux box and i learned how to do most of this on a mailing 
list. if u think tc-user is bad u should venture into installing a 
j2ee server like jboss or the oracle 9i application server and get 
on those lists and try to get some help. and, not to mention the 
beast mother of all mailing lists: QMAIL. try installing qmail w/o 
help. then when u give up trying to install qmail by urself 
subscribe to the qmail users list and ask a flimsy question and hope 
someone like charles cazabon reponds. good luck, david.

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RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

You're correct.  There is lots of documentation out there. 
Unfortunately, it belongs with most things that are open sourse - in 
the trash.  Jakarata/tomcat is particularly bad.  The people that 
manage it should be ashamed of themselves (I hope they are not 
building software I have to rely on in life and death situations).

Mike


I disagree.  There's lots of documentation out there.

It's just not blasted into peoples' faces, nor is it bound into a nice
little book and shrinkwrapped.  You have to go find it, and you have to read
it.  Most people are too lazy to do either, they want everything handed to
them.

John



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Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !

[Mike DiChiappari]

I know the reason for this list - at least as it applies to Jakarta.
It is meant to address the complete lack of adequate documentation
for tomcat.  Of course, nobody can answer your questions.  The
purpose of Jakarta is not to build useful software for "the rest of
us".   It is to keep geeks happy, programming something (that may or
may not be of use).  Documentation is only supplied for software when
the builders of it are serious about wanting it to be used.

Mike


Well, you have lots of answers now.

At 08:40 AM 12/9/2002 -0500, you wrote:

In 3 opportunities i wrote to this stuped (sorry) list, and NEVER i
found help.
I hope that the people that participates of this list, don´t have
damages about
other people that don´t belong´s at your countries.
Thank´s for NOTHING.


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Micael



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Help with using mod_jk2

[Mike DiChiappari]

Is there any good documentation out there that describes how to get 
mod_jk2 working with Apache 2.0 and tomcat 4.x?  The docs on the 
jakarta site are good if you already know what your doing and love 
geek-speak.  I am looking for something that simply leads me through 
the process without already assuming I know everything about 
connectors and other junk (that's not relevant).

Thanks,
Mike

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Serving HTML and J2EE apps

[Mike DiChiappari]

How are people setting up servers to serve both HTML and J2EE apps? 
I would like to setup my app so that both HTML and web apps (JSPs) 
are accessed using a web server (like Apache) and using port 80 (for 
both HTML and JSPs).  I would prefer to not make any reference to 
port 8080 (or whatever port a J2EE server may use).  I would like my 
users to be unaware of having to deal with ports.Is this 
considered a standard thing to do?  What are most people doing?

Mike




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