subject:"RE\: difference between apache and tomcat webserver"

RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Deepa Raja

John and Mike Thanks the info

-Original Message-
From: Mike Millson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:33 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver


This is a valuable security feature of unix/linux/solaris/free bsd/etc.
Because it impacts tomcat config shouldn't be misinterpreted as some kind of
limitation w/ the operating system. Windows may have caught up in some
respects, but these type features are why unix/linux/etc are more secure
than windows in a server environment.

-Original Message-
From: Turner, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:04 AM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver



On UNIX/Linux, ports less than 1024 are privileged ports.  To run a service
on them, you have to run the service as root.  Running services as root is
generally a bad idea:  an exploit like a buffer overflow can allow access to
the operating system via that service, and since the service is running as
root, the exploiter now has root access.

Apache starts up as root, but uses child processes running as a non-root
user with (preferably) very limited access to actually serve HTTP and HTTPS
requests.  Tomcat does not do this, and even though there are security
measures built-in to the JVM, many people do not feel comfortable running
Tomcat as root on a publicly accessible port like port 80.  So, they use
Apache on port 80, and "hide" Tomcat "behind" Apache.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Deepa Raja [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:38 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
>
>
> Hi Julius
>
> could you please enlighten me on the following line please.
>
> 'Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.'
>
> Thanks
> Deepa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Julius Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:28 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
>
>
>
> krip pane,
>
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.
>
> Too many people are under that impression.
>
> > what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
>
> Advantages of using apache with tomcat:
>
> - Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
> - Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi,
> perl, php).
> - All the extra modules, for example: https.
> - Everybody's doin' it.
>
> Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files
> and images".
> This is because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web
> site, static files
> are the least of your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at
> sending a "304 -
> Unmodified" response as Apache is, and that's all that matters.
>
> Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:
>
> - Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've
> discovered, it
> takes about 2 minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will
> spend hours,
> if not days, learning to pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At
> least judging from
> this mailing list.  I've never done it!
>
> yours,
>
>
> Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385
>
> The contents of this message are my own personal opinions,
> and not those of
> CUCBC.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> > To: tomcat
> > Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> > correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> > default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> >
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> > is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional

RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Mike Millson

This is a valuable security feature of unix/linux/solaris/free bsd/etc.
Because it impacts tomcat config shouldn't be misinterpreted as some kind of
limitation w/ the operating system. Windows may have caught up in some
respects, but these type features are why unix/linux/etc are more secure
than windows in a server environment.

-Original Message-
From: Turner, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:04 AM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver



On UNIX/Linux, ports less than 1024 are privileged ports.  To run a service
on them, you have to run the service as root.  Running services as root is
generally a bad idea:  an exploit like a buffer overflow can allow access to
the operating system via that service, and since the service is running as
root, the exploiter now has root access.

Apache starts up as root, but uses child processes running as a non-root
user with (preferably) very limited access to actually serve HTTP and HTTPS
requests.  Tomcat does not do this, and even though there are security
measures built-in to the JVM, many people do not feel comfortable running
Tomcat as root on a publicly accessible port like port 80.  So, they use
Apache on port 80, and "hide" Tomcat "behind" Apache.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Deepa Raja [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:38 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
>
>
> Hi Julius
>
> could you please enlighten me on the following line please.
>
> 'Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.'
>
> Thanks
> Deepa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Julius Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:28 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
>
>
>
> krip pane,
>
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.
>
> Too many people are under that impression.
>
> > what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
>
> Advantages of using apache with tomcat:
>
> - Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
> - Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi,
> perl, php).
> - All the extra modules, for example: https.
> - Everybody's doin' it.
>
> Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files
> and images".
> This is because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web
> site, static files
> are the least of your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at
> sending a "304 -
> Unmodified" response as Apache is, and that's all that matters.
>
> Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:
>
> - Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've
> discovered, it
> takes about 2 minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will
> spend hours,
> if not days, learning to pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At
> least judging from
> this mailing list.  I've never done it!
>
> yours,
>
>
> Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385
>
> The contents of this message are my own personal opinions,
> and not those of
> CUCBC.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> > To: tomcat
> > Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> > correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> > default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> >
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> > is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
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RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Turner, John


On UNIX/Linux, ports less than 1024 are privileged ports.  To run a service
on them, you have to run the service as root.  Running services as root is
generally a bad idea:  an exploit like a buffer overflow can allow access to
the operating system via that service, and since the service is running as
root, the exploiter now has root access.

Apache starts up as root, but uses child processes running as a non-root
user with (preferably) very limited access to actually serve HTTP and HTTPS
requests.  Tomcat does not do this, and even though there are security
measures built-in to the JVM, many people do not feel comfortable running
Tomcat as root on a publicly accessible port like port 80.  So, they use
Apache on port 80, and "hide" Tomcat "behind" Apache.  

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Deepa Raja [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:38 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> 
> 
> Hi Julius
> 
> could you please enlighten me on the following line please. 
> 
> 'Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.'
> 
> Thanks
> Deepa
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Julius Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:28 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> 
> 
> 
> krip pane,
> 
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.
> 
> Too many people are under that impression.
> 
> > what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
> 
> Advantages of using apache with tomcat:
> 
> - Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
> - Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi, 
> perl, php).
> - All the extra modules, for example: https.
> - Everybody's doin' it.
> 
> Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files 
> and images".
> This is because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web 
> site, static files
> are the least of your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at 
> sending a "304 -
> Unmodified" response as Apache is, and that's all that matters.
> 
> Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:
> 
> - Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've 
> discovered, it
> takes about 2 minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will 
> spend hours,
> if not days, learning to pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At 
> least judging from
> this mailing list.  I've never done it!
> 
> yours,
> 
> 
> Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385
> 
> The contents of this message are my own personal opinions, 
> and not those of
> CUCBC.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> > To: tomcat
> > Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> > 
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> > correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> > default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> > 
> > I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> > serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> > is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> > installing/using apache as your webserver and
> > installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> > tomcat.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: 
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Evans, Michael

None in particular.  mod_jk is particularly useful if you want different URI
sub folders or different file types to be served by different tomcat servers
or if you want to load balance between tomcat servers...

It will be slightly slower using mod_jk as the web server will need to
connect to tomcat in order to process the requests.



-Original Message-
From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 09 January 2003 22:05
To: tomcat
Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver


All,

I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
correctly.  I recently installe tomcat 4.1 with
default values and was able to server jsp pages.

I was under the impression that apache is needed to
serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
installing/using apache as your webserver and
installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
tomcat.

Thanks

__
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Deepa Raja

Hi Julius

could you please enlighten me on the following line please. 

'Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.'

Thanks
Deepa

-Original Message-
From: Julius Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:28 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver



krip pane,

> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.

Too many people are under that impression.

> what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.

Advantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
- Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi, perl, php).
- All the extra modules, for example: https.
- Everybody's doin' it.

Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files and images".
This is because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web site, static files
are the least of your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at sending a "304 -
Unmodified" response as Apache is, and that's all that matters.

Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've discovered, it
takes about 2 minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will spend hours,
if not days, learning to pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At least judging from
this mailing list.  I've never done it!

yours,


Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385

The contents of this message are my own personal opinions, and not those of
CUCBC.


> -Original Message-
> From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> To: tomcat
> Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> 
> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

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RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-10 Thread Deepa Raja

Few more things I would like to add

1.With apache you could secure your application far better than directly
using tomcat.
(Don't ask me how. Some experts could help me substantiate this)

2.Load balancing and failover

With apache-tomcat integration we could have load balancing and fail over 
Apache could handle multiple instances of Tomcat and redirect request (ie
loadbalancing)
to various instances. Even if one of the instance is not available the rest
could serve
the page and as an when the instance is added back to the group apache
starts sending
requests to that instance totally without affecting anything.

Both the above are really important for live websites which would 
make them more secure and reliable.

Hope that helps

Deepa




-Original Message-
From: Julius Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:28 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver



krip pane,

> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.

Too many people are under that impression.

> what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.

Advantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
- Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi, perl, php).
- All the extra modules, for example: https.
- Everybody's doin' it.

Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files and images".
This is because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web site, static files
are the least of your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at sending a "304 -
Unmodified" response as Apache is, and that's all that matters.

Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've discovered, it
takes about 2 minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will spend hours,
if not days, learning to pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At least judging from
this mailing list.  I've never done it!

yours,


Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385

The contents of this message are my own personal opinions, and not those of
CUCBC.


> -Original Message-
> From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> To: tomcat
> Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> 
> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

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RE: difference between apache and tomcat webserver

2003-01-09 Thread Julius Davies


krip pane,

> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.

Too many people are under that impression.

> what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.

Advantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Feels safer when using port < 1024 on linux/unix.
- Works together very well with lots of other web stuff (cgi, perl, php).
- All the extra modules, for example: https.
- Everybody's doin' it.

Notice that I don't include "speed of serving static files and images".  This is 
because, frankly, if you're hosting a dynamic web site, static files are the least of 
your problems.  Tomcat is just as fast at sending a "304 - Unmodified" response as 
Apache is, and that's all that matters.

Disadvantages of using apache with tomcat:

- Much, much harder to get everything working.  As you've discovered, it takes about 2 
minutes to get Tomcat up and running!  You will spend hours, if not days, learning to 
pair Tomcat up with Apache.  At least judging from this mailing list.  I've never done 
it!

yours,


Julius Davies, Programmer, CUCBC
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ph: 604.730.6385

The contents of this message are my own personal opinions, and not those of CUCBC.


> -Original Message-
> From: krip pane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM
> To: tomcat
> Subject: difference between apache and tomcat webserver
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I hope I am understanding and asking this answer
> correctly.  I recently installed tomcat 4.1 with
> default values and was able to server jsp pages.
> 
> I was under the impression that apache is needed to
> serve the jsp pages - looks like not.  So the question
> is what is the advantage or disadvantage of
> installing/using apache as your webserver and
> installing some connector (i.e. mod_jk) to use with
> tomcat.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 
> 
> 

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