Topband: The 16th Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge
Greetings Utilizers of the Night Forces, In 4 weeks the Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge will be upon us. For Amateur Radio Operators who are not familiar with this event it is a 24 hour Morse Code test on 160M only, with the contest participants exchanging their calls and Maidenhead Grid 4 digit locators for 14 hours. For Amateur Radio Operators who are familiar with this event... it is still the same thing. The Boring Amateur Radio Club sponsors this contest which utilizes a distance mnemonic to reward more points for a far away contact than for a not so far away contact. We have official rules and information about this Great Contest which live at: http://jzap.com/k7rat/stew.html This web site is currently hosed and non-functional presumably related to the massive amounts of RF thrown into the sky by the recently concluded CQWW-SSB and the Sweepstakeses. Our cracker-jack team of web site restorers will soon resuscitate the site so that you may study for yourselves the event and its subtleties. The plaque program for The Stew Perry TopBand Extravaganza is unique in that The Boring Amateur Radio Club does not decide what performances should be rewarded with wood. The radio combatants do that by sponsoring categories that they individually feel are important. These Stalwarts choose the accomplishment that they want rewarded, send or Paypal $55 to the Club and then the fight is on for that category. Listed below are the Radio Operators already in for 2011: Call Category KL7RA"Top Number of QSOs" North Pole Contest Club"Being Cogitated" TF4M "Longest DX" (2 stations, each get 1 plaque) W0UCE " Top Score USA/S-O/LP/single wire for Tx & Rx" KR2Q "Golden Log" (Top # of QSOs w/o a bust) VK6VZ"Top Score N. Hemisphere station working S. Hemisphere stations" (Winner gets official Flying Doctors of VK Baseball hat rather than plaque) If you are an individual Sponsor then the community will recognize and appreciate your efforts to stimulate the competition. If you are a business then the community should swarm your website and phones to buy all of your wares to reward you for the support! An email to me inquiring about a particular category should get a reasonably swift response and a place on this list of donors. All categories will be screened for appropriateness by the Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Smut Detection whose decisions are usually final. The plaques for the 2010 Stew Fray are all ready to be taken to the Postal Authorities so they should be arriving at the winners' abodes soon. The Boring Amateur Radio Club understands that ol' Sol has brought life to 10M and even some 6M propagation. Ancient dogma suggests that these conditions hurt 160M but we know better. These conditions test the TopBand contestors and direct them to even better technology and operating in order to make the TopBand QSOs. We at the Club also understand that the 16th running of The Stew Perry TopBand Challenge is the week before Chistmas during the Holiday season. What better way to cope with the frenzy and panic that can permeate those times than to sit down and work the world on TopBand for a while? Start doing good deeds now to fill up the favor bank so that you can withdraw the favored time to play in The Stew Perry. See You in The Stew! 73 and I remain, Lew W7EW The Boring Amateur Radio Club Plaquerer w7ew(at)arrl(dot)net ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28
Hi Everyone, There are good antennas and everything in between. But the big variable is propagation. I have been on this band for about 18 or 20 years. I can not tell you how many hours I have waited for the deep QSB fades to cease just to work a KP2 from AZ to get another mult. The bottom line is no matter what you have as an antenna, the propagation rules. GL & 73 Hardy N7RT - Original Message - From: "John Harden" To: Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28 > On 11/20/2011 5:58 PM, gedk...@aol.com wrote: >> Some people would rather play with antennas than get on the air, if >> that's >> their thing go for it. ME I would rather get on the air and work >> stations. >> I just let my auto tuner make the rig happy losses on 160 are not that >> high. >> But then I remember a time when I needed a station on 24 Mhz so I made up >> a >> Dipole on the shack floor and climbed up to the 60 ft level of my tower >> in >> a snow storm and installed it as a sloped dipole. " worked him on the >> first call" I couldn't believe it !! >> ED K8OT >> >> ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
Just my observation. If a ground is broken on either end, it will work in one direction and not the other. I have 3 bidirectional ones here. I have not noticed any change whether there are 2 ground rods or 4 at each end. But if one ground gets totally broken it's get out of the chair right now and get the flash light. 73 Hardy N7RT - Original Message - From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" To: Cc: "TopBand List" Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: > So the answer is a better ground on the Beverage ends may not buy you > muchbut could it hurt you? > I am looking for a db here or there which i > probably will never see. IMHO the Beverage grounds, or lack thereof > probably has more to do with pattern shaping anyway. correct? Yeah, from the incoming signals. But common mode is an unwanted violation of the desired pattern. Anything not admitted by the shape of the beverage wire is an unwanted violation of the desired pattern. Perhaps the grounds connected or in proximity shape the admittance of unwanted common mode. What would perplex me the most, is doing the change and not being able to MEASURE it. Do all that work, and already expecting to be unable to hear anything conclusive at the receiver (even if it WAS better), and no DATA to show for it. Figure out some way to do it with test signals and repeatable measurements. Suppose you get something that seems .6 to .3 dB with signals. Take a wire from an XG3 and tape it to the outside of your feed coax from the beverage. Tape it to any conductor in the area that could bring signals in. Develop a way to make accurate relative measurements at the RX. I'd think hard about getting an Elecraft XG3. " I am looking for a db here or there." Yes, indeed. The sport of champions. Something found here, something found there, just that way and you have a folded counterpoise that works. A LOT of ways to bleed one of those to death just a shard of a dB at a time. Probably the reason why that didn't hit the big times a long time ago. Someone had to first run into one that had all its shard wounds cleaned up to see something that could work. Or just go get dirty and clean it up one dB shard at a time. 73, Guy. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28
On 11/20/2011 5:58 PM, gedk...@aol.com wrote: > Some people would rather play with antennas than get on the air, if that's > their thing go for it. ME I would rather get on the air and work stations. > I just let my auto tuner make the rig happy losses on 160 are not that high. > But then I remember a time when I needed a station on 24 Mhz so I made up a > Dipole on the shack floor and climbed up to the 60 ft level of my tower in > a snow storm and installed it as a sloped dipole. " worked him on the > first call" I couldn't believe it !! > ED K8OT > > > In a message dated 11/19/2011 10:45:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > w9...@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 11/19/2011 2:00:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, > topband-requ...@contesting.com writes: > > K2AV > > You know Guy, your diatribes are a sure cure for insomnia. I have a buddy > who sez "Stop measuring everything, tune up, and work 'em." I think at > times he's right and yet I like to measure things. > > As for your subject, it's a moot point. Apparently a lot of others prefer > to play your game rather than just "tune up and work 'em." > > But it's taking up a lot of band width for no apparent reason. The > moderator has been very lenient for some reason I don't understand. > That's his > choice. Guess he wants everyone to have their say, even if it is boring > and > doesn't change what they have to work with in their back yard. > > I prefer to read the classics on the subject that have the most to do > with > what is important to Hams that want to work DX on 160... like G3HRH,”The > Ground Beneath Us,” RSGB June, 1966, pp.375-385, or perhaps G.H. Brown, “ > The Phase and Magnitude of Earth Currents Near Radio Transmitting > Antennas,” > Proc. Of the IRE, February 1935, Volume 23, Number 2, or what you have > been quoting, Brown, R.F. Lewis,& J. Epstein, “Ground Systems as a > Factor in > Antenna Efficiency,” Proceedings Of the IRE, June, 1937, Volume 25, > Number > 6. > > Nothing much else has clarified the issues lately other than the work of > A.C. Doty Jr., J.A. Frey,& H.J. Mills, “Efficient Ground Systems for > Vertical Antennas, ”QST, Feb., 1983 and R. Severns, “Experimental > Determination > of Ground System Performance for HF Verticals,”QEX, Jan/Feb 2009 through > Jan/Feb 2010. > > After wading through those, any Ham should be able to make their own good > decisions as to the compromises they want to make in their own stations. > In > my own humble opinion, any further discussion is a waste of cyberspace. > Thanks for your great concern for everyone's success, Guy. Now why don't > you > just tune up and work 'em? > > 73, best DX, Barry > > > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28
Some people would rather play with antennas than get on the air, if that's their thing go for it. ME I would rather get on the air and work stations. I just let my auto tuner make the rig happy losses on 160 are not that high. But then I remember a time when I needed a station on 24 Mhz so I made up a Dipole on the shack floor and climbed up to the 60 ft level of my tower in a snow storm and installed it as a sloped dipole. " worked him on the first call" I couldn't believe it !! ED K8OT In a message dated 11/19/2011 10:45:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, w9...@aol.com writes: In a message dated 11/19/2011 2:00:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, topband-requ...@contesting.com writes: K2AV
Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
Great idea Lee as I could do this from the shack without walking out in the bushes. Thanks, Herb, KV4FZ On 11/20/2011 4:02 PM, Lee K7TJR wrote: >It seems to me what your asking here is how much > crosstalk you would see between two Beverage > antennas. How about just using a signal source and > exciting one beverage while listening on the other. > This could be a most enlightening measurement not only > for the ground rods but for the placement of the antennas > themselves. An MFJ 259 generates quite a signal and > could be used to excite an antenna while listening to the > other. One could also feed the MFJ 259 directly into the > receiver first to get a reference level. Be sure and check > that the MFJ259 does not put out too large a signal and > could damage your RX first! The ratio of the two levels > would indicate the crosstalk whether it is from the ground > posts or antennas. > Aren't they both just as bad? > Lee K7TJR OR > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Bandwidth allocation for posts
Bandwidth allocation for Posts is automatically reduced when there are no Posts. When there are, they can be read, ignored or simply deleted. To the best of my knowledge every computer has a delete key so recipients certainly have choices. Personally I enjoy looking through Top Band Posts, reading those that have interest to me and skipping those that don't... There is tons of experience and knowledge to share in this great hobby and I say thanks to those that care enough to share their knowledge and experience. 73, Jack Hi Barry > But it's taking up a lot of band width for no apparent reason. in my > own humble opinion, any further discussion is a waste of cyberspace. I, for one, have not found it boring. I don't believe we now know all there is to know, and text does not take much file space. Some just tune up and work 'em and some are more interested in the why and how. 73 Bob VE7BS ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Hi Z antenna coupling
There is no need to transmit to test your antenna. Received signal strength will do. With skywave antenna measurements there can be significant measurement variability. Multiple measurements like so should be used. Antenna A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C. Plot the data and you can see trends. Dave WX7G On Nov 20, 2011 12:41 PM, wrote: > being radially impoverished, i have gravitated to high impedance feed > antennas, the one at present is a tree mounted "120 up 130 over". > > i have installed three wall switches to be able to choose (one or all) of > two differently configured 5/16 counter poises, and connecting my link > coupled tuner tank bottom to the transmitter coax feed. > > now i have the option of working someone ( if the someone is patient) and > getting a signal report comparing the tuner tank coupling options > > i remember our mathematician ron murata talking about the magic "37" as > the number of random events needed for some sort of statistical > confidence > > (was too busy thinking about ham radio or girls to remember exactly what > he said) > > so with a sampling of 10 we shall make a comparison.. > > > mike w7dra > > Invest in Gold Today > Diversify your investment portfolio with Gold and Silver. Get a Free > Investor Kit. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ec957b4c5a9a29ed13st03vuc > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
It seems to me what your asking here is how much crosstalk you would see between two Beverage antennas. How about just using a signal source and exciting one beverage while listening on the other. This could be a most enlightening measurement not only for the ground rods but for the placement of the antennas themselves. An MFJ 259 generates quite a signal and could be used to excite an antenna while listening to the other. One could also feed the MFJ 259 directly into the receiver first to get a reference level. Be sure and check that the MFJ259 does not put out too large a signal and could damage your RX first! The ratio of the two levels would indicate the crosstalk whether it is from the ground posts or antennas. Aren't they both just as bad? Lee K7TJR OR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Hi Z antenna coupling
being radially impoverished, i have gravitated to high impedance feed antennas, the one at present is a tree mounted "120 up 130 over". i have installed three wall switches to be able to choose (one or all) of two differently configured 5/16 counter poises, and connecting my link coupled tuner tank bottom to the transmitter coax feed. now i have the option of working someone ( if the someone is patient) and getting a signal report comparing the tuner tank coupling options i remember our mathematician ron murata talking about the magic "37" as the number of random events needed for some sort of statistical confidence (was too busy thinking about ham radio or girls to remember exactly what he said) so with a sampling of 10 we shall make a comparison.. mike w7dra Invest in Gold Today Diversify your investment portfolio with Gold and Silver. Get a Free Investor Kit. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ec957b4c5a9a29ed13st03vuc ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: > So the answer is a better ground on the Beverage ends may not buy you > muchbut could it hurt you? > I am looking for a db here or there which i > probably will never see. IMHO the Beverage grounds, or lack thereof > probably has more to do with pattern shaping anyway. correct? Yeah, from the incoming signals. But common mode is an unwanted violation of the desired pattern. Anything not admitted by the shape of the beverage wire is an unwanted violation of the desired pattern. Perhaps the grounds connected or in proximity shape the admittance of unwanted common mode. What would perplex me the most, is doing the change and not being able to MEASURE it. Do all that work, and already expecting to be unable to hear anything conclusive at the receiver (even if it WAS better), and no DATA to show for it. Figure out some way to do it with test signals and repeatable measurements. Suppose you get something that seems .6 to .3 dB with signals. Take a wire from an XG3 and tape it to the outside of your feed coax from the beverage. Tape it to any conductor in the area that could bring signals in. Develop a way to make accurate relative measurements at the RX. I'd think hard about getting an Elecraft XG3. " I am looking for a db here or there." Yes, indeed. The sport of champions. Something found here, something found there, just that way and you have a folded counterpoise that works. A LOT of ways to bleed one of those to death just a shard of a dB at a time. Probably the reason why that didn't hit the big times a long time ago. Someone had to first run into one that had all its shard wounds cleaned up to see something that could work. Or just go get dirty and clean it up one dB shard at a time. 73, Guy. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Antennas
Wow, I thought this reflector was for topics pertaining to Top-Band. I for one have enjoyed the lively exchange of ideas and views in the recent radial exchange. I do believe that something was gained for top-band as a result. Exactly what this reflector is for. I took a moment and looked up diatribe as I am getting older. Diatribe, no, just passion for beliefs. I dare say after over 10 years now working on high impedance antennas that the high impedance antennas would never have gotten where it has advanced to today without the very same passion you are seeing in the radials exchanges. I just got off the phone with a good friend asking advice on a new antenna design. My parting comment to him was "You need to be thinking outside the box". Folks, that is exactly what is going on here is thinking outside the box and I for one have enjoyed it all. Lee K7TJR OR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28
Hi Barry > But it's taking up a lot of band width for no apparent reason. > in my own humble opinion, any further discussion is a waste of > cyberspace. I, for one, have not found it boring. I don't believe we now know all there is to know, and text does not take much file space. Some just tune up and work 'em and some are more interested in the why and how. 73 Bob VE7BS ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
- Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: Cc: "TopBand List" Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods > On 11/19/2011 9:50 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: >> Is there any cause for concern hooking two grounds together for separate >> Beverages? I have a a single wire Beverage that runs 600 feet to the >> East and and another that runs 600 feet to the West. The ground rods >> are 6 feet apart. I use spiders on both 4x 30' and earth is moderate to >> good conductivity as a former hay field now covered with high grasses.. >> Is there any advantage or disadvantage from connection of the two ground >> rods together with a #8 bare copper jumper? >> >> >> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ > > If you are selecting only one beverage at a time with relays, then > you can use a common ground for them, because the unused one doesn't > create any current in the ground. I have been doing this for years. > If you currently have separate grounds, you might as well aggregate them. > > Rick N6RK Im a bit confused as to how this setup is configured, are they parallel or in series? Current thinking is that 6 isolated grounds are required. One each for the far terminations, feed end antenna windings and each isolated coax. The coax shields can float and be grounded back at the house or at least 30' away from the antenna end transformer ground. I tried a common ground for the feed end transformer for two 2 wire Beverages that were at 45 degree angles angles but the noise pickup was intolerable. I shortened one by 30' with its own ground system and the F/B is good again. Its possible that a real good RF ground would react differently. In my case there were two 4' angled ground rods and a total of 8 radials over very poor ground. Perhaps if I used bare copper wire and buried each radial it would be better but Im using insulated wire just sort of laying on leaves and low ground cover growth. Since a 600' BOG run that way doesnt seem to be bothered much by the ground I can "assume" the radials act the same. Carl KM1H ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Daisey Chained ground rods
Rick, In my case all of my 12 Beverage feedlines come back to the 20 feet from the shack where they go through double 3 inch toriods to a single common ground between the center connection of those chokes. I am doing this hoping to avoid common mode noise pickup. In the ham shake the go to an old Dynair 12X1 passive video switcher where all the center conductors of the unused RG-6 feedlines go to ground via a 75 ohm separate resistor. I am hoping this termination is reflected back at the Beverage transformer(s) but really have no way of knowing. Also I wish there was an easy test to determine if all those torioids are really helping the common mode noise pickup of any of the many transmission lines apart from a MFJ-259B to view the "match" of each Beverage to the feedline and checking the performance and F/B ratio of each Beverage on the top end of the broadcast band, I don't know how I could make any accurate determination if my practices are helping or actually hurting in that regard. Here the highest noise is all tropical QRN and the idea of a quiet noise floor on 160 meters is only a dream. Thanks, Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 11/20/2011 1:11 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: > On 11/19/2011 9:50 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: >> Is there any cause for concern hooking two grounds together for separate >> Beverages? I have a a single wire Beverage that runs 600 feet to the >> East and and another that runs 600 feet to the West. The ground rods >> are 6 feet apart. I use spiders on both 4x 30' and earth is moderate to >> good conductivity as a former hay field now covered with high grasses.. >> Is there any advantage or disadvantage from connection of the two ground >> rods together with a #8 bare copper jumper? >> >> >> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ > If you are selecting only one beverage at a time with relays, then > you can use a common ground for them, because the unused one doesn't > create any current in the ground. I have been doing this for years. > If you currently have separate grounds, you might as well aggregate them. > > Rick N6RK > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
