Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Rich C]

I think setting up your personal station at home for remote is OK as it is
your station equipment and your antennas. Commercialized RHR is a whole
different ball game to me. To me it is a business and for every station
receiving money for the use of such stations RHR needs to report that
income to the IRS in a 1099 form regardless. Hence I no longer see it as
Amateur radio which is service not for hire.

Rich K7ZV



On Sun, July 12, 2015 8:41 pm, WW3S wrote:
> is there a length limit on microphone cords, or key cords? Because for
> several remote stations, thats what you are talking about.I’m
> currently in Leesburg VA, over 300 miles from home.but I still
> operated MY station on and off this weekend, with MY antennas, MY power
> supplies, MY technology and MY sweat equity in putting it all
> together.while I didnt work any 160, or any new DXCC entities, so
> what if I did? Its still my primary station location, with the same
> antennas I use everyday, and the same transceiver to generate and receive
> RFonly difference is my mic and headset cable is about 340 miles
> long. 73, Jamie WW3S
>
>
>> On 7/12/2015 8:56:26 PM, Hardy Landskov (n...@cox.net) wrote:
>>
>>> Why don't we have the drivers of the Indy 500 operate their cars with
>>>
>> joysticks in the stands or somewhere far, far away? Same thing as
>> remote, right? This is not my radio My 2 cents.
>> 73 Hardy N7RT
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
>>  Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 5:20 PM
>> To: W0MU
>> Cc: topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question
>>
>>
>> Well for one thing your $100,000 station doesn't magically appear
>> anywhere in the country just by selecting a new location on the computer
>> screen because where it's located at the moment ain't getting the job
>> donebig difference!
>>
>> I don't have any problem with remote ham radio for general ham radio
>> activities...want to get on the air and rag chew, operate to keep up
>> with your buddies from the nursing home, run a net from your
>> condo...great...knock yourself out...I don't think any one who takes
>> issue with Remote Ham Radio and systems like it would have any problems
>> with that use of it at all...
>>
>> I object as many do to bringing it into the competitive aspects of the
>> hobby and expecting to compete against it with a traditional Amateur
>> Station
>> implementationand I have no issue with that if its use is
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


Rich K7ZV
rich_k...@gphilltop.com


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote Question..

[Wes Attaway (N5WA)]

Amen.

On 2015-07-12 16:28, Dave Heil wrote:

Bill,

There was no competition among those who walked to school, no matter
what the distance.  There were no awards, annual listings, pins,
certificates, plaques or such.

The internet is akin to telephones and cable television more than to
amateur radio.  If you're making your way to Topband DXCC with
stations on both coasts and receivers/antennas on various continents,
you are not operating in the spirit of the awards.

73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On 7/12/2015 3:00 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:

Hi Mike,

There really is a difference among all the people who walked to school
and back every school day for 12 years or so. Some of them lived 
across

the street and others lived ten miles away, uphill both ways . I do see that somebody who did all of a DX challenge from their
home location has more bragging rights than somebody who did parts of 
it

over the internet.

This message was done in part with the internet. Doing it all by radio
would be *more* fun.

73,

Bill  KU8H

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Robert Harmon]

Ken,

I hear what you are trying to convey but there is a fly in the ointment.  
I am not trying to impress anyone else. For me it is and always has been a 
personal achievement.
No one here is concerned with diminishing their abilities to impress others as 
you have stated.  
These "issues" you call them are the criteria and boundaries needed to achieve 
the DXCC awards.
The perception that the awards are not being watered down is in your head Ken.  
  That is what this discussion is all about.
The concern we all feel is that the DXCC awards are becoming awards with no 
criteria and boundaries anymore, so what value will they be ?
Would it not be plausible to create additional DXCC award categories to 
accommodate technology advances like our current RHR capabilities ?


Bob
K6UJ





> On Jul 12, 2015, at 12:16 PM, W0MU  wrote:
> 
> I think much of the issue with RHR is people are bent out of shape that a 
> group of people have jumped on this and appear to be doing quite well.  
> Business must be booming as they are adding new stations constantly.
> 
> Personally I have a decent station and am not interested in renting station 
> time.
> 
> In the end the challenge is personal.  The award is whatever you make it.
> 
> DXCC is DXCC.  If you feel better that you worked it from the same location 
> using wet noodles more power to you.
> 
> If you are chasing DX to impress other people I think you are doing it wrong. 
>  When you focus on yourself and what you are doing then these little "issues" 
> become non issues.
> 
> My Dad told me a long time ago in business was to quit paying so much about 
> the other guy and start focusing on my business and what my strength were.
> 
> I have been a ham since 1978.  Honor roll number 1 mean very little to me.  
> What it says is that you have either been doing this longer than me, spend 
> more time on the radio, have a better setup, etc.  It doesn't mean that you 
> are a better DXer.  I hear so called big DXers in pileups calling endlessly 
> with no clue about how pileups work etc.  Lots of great DXers are in and out 
> of a pileup before you know it.  Many of those guys may or may not have DXCC. 
>  I waited for over 20 years to apply for DXCC and the award is still in the 
> tube..
> 
> Be proud of yourself and what you have done.  The watering down of the award 
> is in your head.
> 
> On 7/12/2015 7:32 AM, n...@comcast.net wrote:
>> Good morning. I have followed with interest the discussion on this subject. 
>> I enjoyed hearing both sides of the issue from my fellow DXers. Most of the 
>> replies have been both thoughtful and respectful and I thank you for that.
>> I thought you may find it interesting to hear a comment from the perspective 
>> of an RHR user. Perhaps some of the others who comment also used that 
>> service (which seems to have triggered this debate) but I don't remember 
>> seeing that. I have been an RHR customer for two years. I have been a DXer 
>> for the entire 42 years of my amateur career. Climbing the DX Challenge 
>> ladder is my principal goal. I have a home station focused on 6, 80 and 160. 
>> 93.5% of the entities I need for the Challenge are on these three bands. I 
>> have a full sized quarter wave vertical for 160 (and 8 560 ' beverages), a 4 
>> square for 80 and a 9 element M2 at 80' for 6. The station works well and 
>> has been productive. But as you know from 160 propagation is finicky. And 
>> for those who have not spent time on 6, it is even more so there. I rent the 
>> RHR stations because they give me more opportunities to work new ones for 
>> the Challenge. It is simply another tool I use to accomplish my goal. And 
>> unless the DXCC ru
 l
> es
>>   change I will continue to do so. I appreciate, and respect, those who feel 
>> this somehow violates the spirit of the DXCC program. I simply do not agree.
>> Ham radio has always had a prickly relationship with technology. On one hand 
>> we love the cool gadgets and the hobby would die without them. On the other, 
>> it forces us to deal with change. Anyone remember the debate about using 
>> packet clusters to work DX? "Shooting fish in a barrel" was a common 
>> criticism of those who used that technology. Remember when there was a move 
>> to ban from DXCC credit qsos made on a list?
>> I suspect remote technology is here to stay; the ARRL BOD has already spoken 
>> once on that matter and were quite clear. What I would suggest is view this 
>> technology as simply a tool; available to all willing to pay the fee (just 
>> like our expensive radios, antennas, amps, etc.) . Use it or don't use it. 
>> The choice is yours. Best, Steve, NN4T
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: CW Touch Key

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi Jim,

I'm getting into some 'age related' neurological decline too and I'm 
interested, too. If you try those keys and they help please let us know. 
I'm sure you and I are NOT the only ones! The most noticeable decline 
involving my fingers comes when I double click the computer mouse or use 
the paddles or bug. So far it has only slowed me down but I am not 
expecting it to get any better.


It seems to take me all day to do what I used to do all day!

73,

Bill  KU8H


On 07/12/2015 09:51 PM, Jim Murray via Topband wrote:

Since everyone seems to be on board I thought I'd ask a question about one part 
of Ham Radio we all love-keys.  Has anyone tried or been using one of these 
touch keys (no moving parts) etc..  I have various types of keys but the hands 
don't work like they did at one time, especially in the Winter.  Thinking of 
giving one of these touch keys a try.  ThanksJimk2hn
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Remote thread

[Tree]

At the risk of sounding like a party pooper - I think the remote thread has
gotten stuck into the same rut this discussion typically ends up on - and
is no longer really relevant to the main focus on this list (topband).

This is a very emotional issue for many - and isn't something we are going
to solve here.

I (and many others) would like to see it die down please.

Thanks.

The Management
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Cecil]

No issue with that...remote operation of your primary station...I don't see any 
difference between that and local operation of the same station...even if you 
had worked some DX...great use of the technology.

Cecil
K5DL

Sent using recycled electrons.

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 8:41 PM, WW3S  wrote:
> 
> is there a length limit on microphone cords, or key cords? Because for 
> several remote stations, thats what you are talking about.I’m currently 
> in Leesburg VA, over 300 miles from home.but I still operated MY station 
> on and off this weekend, with MY antennas, MY power supplies, MY technology 
> and MY sweat equity in putting it all together.while I didnt work any 
> 160, or any new DXCC entities, so what if I did? Its still my primary station 
> location, with the same antennas I use everyday, and the same transceiver to 
> generate and receive RFonly difference is my mic and headset cable is 
> about 340 miles long.
> 73, Jamie WW3S
> 
>>> On 7/12/2015 8:56:26 PM, Hardy Landskov (n...@cox.net) wrote:
>>> Why don't we have the drivers of the Indy 500 operate their cars with
>> joysticks in the stands or somewhere far, far away? Same thing as remote,
>> right? This is not my radio
>> My 2 cents.
>> 73 Hardy N7RT
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 5:20 PM
>> To: W0MU
>> Cc: topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question
>> 
>> Well for one thing your $100,000 station doesn't magically appear anywhere
>> in the country just by selecting a new location on the computer screen
>> because where it's located at the moment ain't getting the job donebig
>> difference!
>> 
>> I don't have any problem with remote ham radio for general ham radio
>> activities...want to get on the air and rag chew, operate to keep up with
>> your buddies from the nursing home, run a net from your
>> condo...great...knock yourself out...I don't think any one who takes issue
>> with Remote Ham Radio and systems like it would have any problems with that
>> use of it at all...
>> 
>> I object as many do to bringing it into the competitive aspects of the hobby
>> and expecting to compete against it with a traditional Amateur Station
>> implementationand I have no issue with that if its use is
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: CW Touch Key

[Jim Murray via Topband]

Since everyone seems to be on board I thought I'd ask a question about one part 
of Ham Radio we all love-keys.  Has anyone tried or been using one of these 
touch keys (no moving parts) etc..  I have various types of keys but the hands 
don't work like they did at one time, especially in the Winter.  Thinking of 
giving one of these touch keys a try.  ThanksJimk2hn
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[WW3S]

is there a length limit on microphone cords, or key cords? Because for several 
remote stations, thats what you are talking about.I’m currently in Leesburg 
VA, over 300 miles from home.but I still operated MY station on and off 
this weekend, with MY antennas, MY power supplies, MY technology and MY sweat 
equity in putting it all together.while I didnt work any 160, or any new 
DXCC entities, so what if I did? Its still my primary station location, with 
the same antennas I use everyday, and the same transceiver to generate and 
receive RFonly difference is my mic and headset cable is about 340 miles 
long.
73, Jamie WW3S

> On 7/12/2015 8:56:26 PM, Hardy Landskov (n...@cox.net) wrote:
> > Why don't we have the drivers of the Indy 500 operate their cars with
> joysticks in the stands or somewhere far, far away? Same thing as remote,
> right? This is not my radio
> My 2 cents.
> 73 Hardy N7RT
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 5:20 PM
> To: W0MU
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question
> 
> Well for one thing your $100,000 station doesn't magically appear anywhere
> in the country just by selecting a new location on the computer screen
> because where it's located at the moment ain't getting the job donebig
> difference!
> 
> I don't have any problem with remote ham radio for general ham radio
> activities...want to get on the air and rag chew, operate to keep up with
> your buddies from the nursing home, run a net from your
> condo...great...knock yourself out...I don't think any one who takes issue
> with Remote Ham Radio and systems like it would have any problems with that
> use of it at all...
> 
> I object as many do to bringing it into the competitive aspects of the hobby
> and expecting to compete against it with a traditional Amateur Station
> implementationand I have no issue with that if its use is
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DXCC etc

[W0MU]

If DXCC is destroyed there sure are a ton of people that failed to get 
that message.


The ARRL is in the business 
of..selling awards..


The Centennial QSO party was pure marketing genius.  How many people got 
involved to buy another award




On 7/12/2015 5:17 PM, Yuri Blanarovich wrote:

What matters? Technology.

Engine on a sail boat, Cessna vs. glider, biker vs. runner and 
"competing" in the same category. (According to ham radio "logic")


DXCC was destroyed by lists and nets wy bck.

Now contesting, results, record tables are being destroyed by 
Internet, remotes and rentastations.


ARRL is just like another dumb gummit bureaucracy. See the 
"recognition" of Russian occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. 
Thousands of dead freedom loving Ukrainians, not even UN and US State 
Dept. matter. What you expect? Maybe tax on rentastation rental fee, 
or per QSO? Welcome to Ham Radio Commerce!


I lost appetite for playing with competitive radios. Thanks to Ham 
Radio for great old times, learning and building stations, getting me 
out of commie hell, influence in my career and many great friends I made.


Tony Soprano was right: "Fuggetaboutit"! Good luck to further 
perversion of our beloved hobby/sport.
I might try to 'splain more to those who don't get it, but wonder if 
it will do any good.


I am getting back to photo/video. Technology there is allowing some 
amazing things, UHD, 3D, VR, drones.


73 Yuri,
K3BU.us, VE3BMV etc.


 On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 03:08 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

 > I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I 
understand them correctly:


1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the 
contacts count

towards my DXCC.

2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count 
towards my DXCC.


So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What 
the heck

matters anymore?

73, Roger



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Hardy Landskov]

All I can say is working the P5 was awesome to me for the last one. The
pileups were horrendous, the postage bills too much, but I loved every
minute through the years. And I did love the plaque. I did this to see what
I could do, not to compete with someone else. Some think it's a waste of
time but I learned more about antennas, RF, amplifiers, etc that really made
me succeed in my job. I question what you accomplish by playing golf--with
green fees being what they are? But we all have are wants and desires.
Just my outlook on the whole thing.
73 N7RT

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 3:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question

So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent one
for whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb towers
who has to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should be shoved
into another category too?

I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   
I hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not because
you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at it longer,
has better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located in a better
location.

CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every year
and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the winners will
have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the winners.  I think
Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided to make this a
strange competition that really doesn't have a start date or and end, then
it does the majority of active hams.

Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like packet
and the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.

I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more people
do as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to see old
timers and most of the ham population are old timers now be able to operate
from nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would rather them be
shoved to the streets and ignored.

What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is a
bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field waters down
your victory doesn't it?

Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 years?
Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so 
lets not make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your 
business.




On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:
> It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own
admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal
about paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.
>
> Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of
way but competitive it is.
>
> It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the
guy with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with
100 Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy
with 100 Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill
levels that playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all
you have for a station.
>
> Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class
changes were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best
it could be within your means and to improve your operating skills.
>
> For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station
capability was recognized and different competitive classes were
formedso the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of
accomplishment by competing with guys generally equipped like him.
>
> In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky
neighborhood that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because
hubby needed space and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers,
antennas and suchno worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live
there)
>
> We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet
connection and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where
the DX is today and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E
skip action anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the
skip zone today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station
that can hear that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper is
piling up...
>
> What's a traditional station OP to do...he's been working hard for years,
building new antennas, buying commercial products and improving his station
whenever he can, staying up late nights or getting up early mornings.  An
expected normal progression for Ham Radiohe is close to finishing his
DXCC on 160 and a guy that don't even own a station...or worse owns a small
station but 

Re: Topband: The Remote Question

[Art Snapper]

Remote stations should be operated in the assisted class during contests..


As far as DXCC, how about an endorsement for all stations who earned it
using only their local station?

My $0.02

Art NK8X
ᐧ

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Doug Renwick  wrote:

> I consider it another form of cheating.  Regardless of what the ARRL says.
> Since when has the ARRL - DXCC been a bastion of ethics?  IMO ARRL ethics
> is
> an oxymoron.
>
> Without inserting politics into the discussion, all one has to do is look
> at
> what is going in the world around us and it is clear the ARRL has fallen
> into the same game plan.  Me, me, me and mini me.
>
> What amazes me is all these 'cheaters' or 'cheater cheerleaders'
> voluntarily
> admitting to cheating.  The contest committees need to study this effect to
> get contest cheaters to admit to cheating on their own volition.
>
> Doug
>
> Generation of idiots - smart phones and dumb people.
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
>
>  Original message 
>
>
> I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I understand them
> correctly:
>
> 1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the contacts
> count
> towards my DXCC.
>
> 2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count towards my
> DXCC.
>
> So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What the
> heck
> matters anymore?
>
> 73, Roger
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: The Remote Question

[Doug Renwick]

I consider it another form of cheating.  Regardless of what the ARRL says.
Since when has the ARRL - DXCC been a bastion of ethics?  IMO ARRL ethics is
an oxymoron.

Without inserting politics into the discussion, all one has to do is look at
what is going in the world around us and it is clear the ARRL has fallen
into the same game plan.  Me, me, me and mini me.

What amazes me is all these 'cheaters' or 'cheater cheerleaders' voluntarily
admitting to cheating.  The contest committees need to study this effect to
get contest cheaters to admit to cheating on their own volition. 

Doug   

Generation of idiots - smart phones and dumb people.


-Original Message-


 Original message 


I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I understand them 
correctly:

1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the contacts count
towards my DXCC.

2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count towards my
DXCC.

So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What the
heck
matters anymore?

73, Roger


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Hardy Landskov]

Why don't we have the drivers of the Indy 500 operate their cars with
joysticks in the stands or somewhere far, far away? Same thing as remote,
right? This is not my radio
My 2 cents.
73 Hardy N7RT


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 5:20 PM
To: W0MU
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question

Well for one thing your $100,000 station doesn't magically appear anywhere
in the country just by selecting a new location on the computer screen
because where it's located at the moment ain't getting the job donebig
difference!

I don't have any problem with remote ham radio for general ham radio
activities...want to get on the air and rag chew, operate to keep up with
your buddies from the nursing home, run a net from your
condo...great...knock yourself out...I don't think any one who takes issue
with Remote Ham Radio and systems like it would have any problems with that
use of it at all...

I object as many do to bringing it into the competitive aspects of the hobby
and expecting to compete against it with a traditional Amateur Station
implementationand I have no issue with that if its use is placed in its
own class.

Nuff said Mike...I'm clear..

Cecil
K5DL

Sent using recycled electrons.

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 5:56 PM, W0MU  wrote:
> 
> So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent one
for whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb towers
who has to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should be shoved
into another category too?
> 
> I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   I
hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not because
you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at it longer,
has better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located in a better
location.
> 
> CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every year
and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the winners will
have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the winners.  I think
Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided to make this a
strange competition that really doesn't have a start date or and end, then
it does the majority of active hams.
> 
> Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like packet
and the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.
> 
> I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more people
do as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to see old
timers and most of the ham population are old timers now be able to operate
from nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would rather them be
shoved to the streets and ignored.
> 
> What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is a
bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field waters down
your victory doesn't it?
> 
> Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 years?
Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so lets not
make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:
>> It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own
admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal
about paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.
>> 
>> Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort
of way but competitive it is.
>> 
>> It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the
guy with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with
100 Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy
with 100 Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill
levels that playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all
you have for a station.
>> 
>> Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class
changes were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best
it could be within your means and to improve your operating skills.
>> 
>> For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station
capability was recognized and different competitive classes were
formedso the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of
accomplishment by competing with guys generally equipped like him.
>> 
>> In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky 
>> neighborhood that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't 
>> because hubby needed space and acceptance to put up all those ugly 
>> wires, towers, antennas and suchno worries! (That's my wife...and 
>> we still don't live there)
>> 
>> We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet
connection and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where
the DX is today an

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Cecil]

Well for one thing your $100,000 station doesn't magically appear anywhere in 
the country just by selecting a new location on the computer screen because 
where it's located at the moment ain't getting the job donebig difference!

I don't have any problem with remote ham radio for general ham radio 
activities...want to get on the air and rag chew, operate to keep up with your 
buddies from the nursing home, run a net from your condo...great...knock 
yourself out...I don't think any one who takes issue with Remote Ham Radio and 
systems like it would have any problems with that use of it at all...

I object as many do to bringing it into the competitive aspects of the hobby 
and expecting to compete against it with a traditional Amateur Station 
implementationand I have no issue with that if its use is placed in its own 
class.

Nuff said Mike...I'm clear..

Cecil
K5DL

Sent using recycled electrons.

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 5:56 PM, W0MU  wrote:
> 
> So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent one for 
> whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb towers who has 
> to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should be shoved into 
> another category too?
> 
> I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   I 
> hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not because 
> you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at it longer, has 
> better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located in a better 
> location.
> 
> CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every year 
> and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the winners will 
> have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the winners.  I think 
> Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided to make this a strange 
> competition that really doesn't have a start date or and end, then it does 
> the majority of active hams.
> 
> Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like packet and 
> the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.
> 
> I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more people do 
> as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to see old timers 
> and most of the ham population are old timers now be able to operate from 
> nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would rather them be shoved to 
> the streets and ignored.
> 
> What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is a 
> bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field waters down 
> your victory doesn't it?
> 
> Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 years?  
> Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so lets not 
> make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:
>> It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own 
>> admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal 
>> about paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.
>> 
>> Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of 
>> way but competitive it is.
>> 
>> It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the guy 
>> with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with 100 
>> Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy with 
>> 100 Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill levels 
>> that playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all you have 
>> for a station.
>> 
>> Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class 
>> changes were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best 
>> it could be within your means and to improve your operating skills.
>> 
>> For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station 
>> capability was recognized and different competitive classes were 
>> formedso the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of 
>> accomplishment by competing with guys generally equipped like him.
>> 
>> In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky neighborhood 
>> that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because hubby needed 
>> space and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers, antennas and 
>> suchno worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live there)
>> 
>> We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet 
>> connection and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where 
>> the DX is today and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E 
>> skip action anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the 
>> skip zone today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station 
>> that can hear that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[James Bennett]

Well folks, I  have just about had it with this thread and the group. I had 
joined the group to possibly help my knowledge of operating and building 
equipment and antennas for 80 and 160 meters, not to be bombarded with a ton of 
messages of how the entire ham community feels about what is becoming common 
practice for some. My delete key is nearly worn out. It appears that the 
moderator of the list is off on vacation somewhere or simply does not care 
about this non-stop remote / DXCC drivel. 

To those who've helped me in the past - thank you. The rest of you guys can 
have at - I'm un subscribing ASAP.

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 3:56 PM, W0MU  wrote:
> 
> So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent one for 
> whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb towers who has 
> to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should be shoved into 
> another category too?
> 
> I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   I 
> hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not because 
> you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at it longer, has 
> better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located in a better 
> location.
> 
> CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every year 
> and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the winners will 
> have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the winners.  I think 
> Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided to make this a strange 
> competition that really doesn't have a start date or and end, then it does 
> the majority of active hams.
> 
> Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like packet and 
> the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.
> 
> I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more people do 
> as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to see old timers 
> and most of the ham population are old timers now be able to operate from 
> nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would rather them be shoved to 
> the streets and ignored.
> 
> What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is a 
> bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field waters down 
> your victory doesn't it?
> 
> Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 years?  
> Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so lets not 
> make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:
>> It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own 
>> admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal 
>> about paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.
>> 
>> Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of 
>> way but competitive it is.
>> 
>> It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the guy 
>> with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with 100 
>> Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy with 
>> 100 Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill levels 
>> that playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all you have 
>> for a station.
>> 
>> Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class 
>> changes were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best 
>> it could be within your means and to improve your operating skills.
>> 
>> For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station 
>> capability was recognized and different competitive classes were 
>> formedso the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of 
>> accomplishment by competing with guys generally equipped like him.
>> 
>> In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky neighborhood 
>> that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because hubby needed 
>> space and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers, antennas and 
>> suchno worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live there)
>> 
>> We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet 
>> connection and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where 
>> the DX is today and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E 
>> skip action anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the 
>> skip zone today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station 
>> that can hear that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper is 
>> piling up...
>> 
>> What's a traditional station OP to do...he's been working hard for years, 
>> building new antennas, buying commercial products and improving his station 
>> whenever he can, staying up late nights or getting up early mornings.  An 
>> expected no

Re: Topband: DXCC etc

[Yuri Blanarovich]

What matters? Technology.
 
Engine on a sail boat, Cessna vs. glider, biker vs. runner and 
"competing" in the same category. (According to ham radio "logic")


DXCC was destroyed by lists and nets wy bck.

Now contesting, results, record tables are being destroyed by Internet, 
remotes and rentastations.

 
ARRL is just like another dumb gummit bureaucracy. See the "recognition" 
of Russian occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Thousands of dead 
freedom loving Ukrainians, not even UN and US State Dept. matter. What 
you expect? Maybe tax on rentastation rental fee, or per QSO? Welcome to 
Ham Radio Commerce!


I lost appetite for playing with competitive radios. Thanks to Ham Radio 
for great old times, learning and building stations, getting me out of 
commie hell, influence in my career and many great friends I made.


Tony Soprano was right: "Fuggetaboutit"! Good luck to further perversion 
of our beloved hobby/sport.
I might try to 'splain more to those who don't get it, but wonder if it 
will do any good.


I am getting back to photo/video. Technology there is allowing some 
amazing things, UHD, 3D, VR, drones.


73 Yuri,
K3BU.us, VE3BMV etc.

 
 On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 03:08 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:
 
 > I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I understand 
them correctly:


1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the contacts 
count

towards my DXCC.

2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count 
towards my DXCC.


So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What 
the heck

matters anymore?

73, Roger



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Larry Burke]

So much for civility. 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 5:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: The Remote question

So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent one
for whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb towers
who has to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should be shoved
into another category too?

I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   
I hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not because
you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at it longer,
has better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located in a better
location.

CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every year
and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the winners will
have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the winners.  I think
Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided to make this a
strange competition that really doesn't have a start date or and end, then
it does the majority of active hams.

Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like packet
and the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.

I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more people
do as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to see old
timers and most of the ham population are old timers now be able to operate
from nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would rather them be
shoved to the streets and ignored.

What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is a
bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field waters down
your victory doesn't it?

Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 years?
Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so 
lets not make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your 
business.




On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:
> It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own
admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal
about paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.
>
> Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of
way but competitive it is.
>
> It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the
guy with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with
100 Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy
with 100 Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill
levels that playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all
you have for a station.
>
> Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class
changes were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best
it could be within your means and to improve your operating skills.
>
> For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station
capability was recognized and different competitive classes were
formedso the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of
accomplishment by competing with guys generally equipped like him.
>
> In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky
neighborhood that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because
hubby needed space and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers,
antennas and suchno worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live
there)
>
> We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet
connection and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where
the DX is today and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E
skip action anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the
skip zone today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station
that can hear that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper is
piling up...
>
> What's a traditional station OP to do...he's been working hard for years,
building new antennas, buying commercial products and improving his station
whenever he can, staying up late nights or getting up early mornings.  An
expected normal progression for Ham Radiohe is close to finishing his
DXCC on 160 and a guy that don't even own a station...or worse owns a small
station but doesn't use it to work the hard ones, lands his first 100 on 160
in his first year of being on the air.
>
> He throws up his hands and says what's the point...and certainly won't be
buying any more commercial products to try and improve his stationand
out of business go more of the commercial equipment makers.
>
> Now...
>
> I don't have a problem with technology and its advancement...I'm a
technical guy.  But the advantages that paid or even shared remote station
access allows should dictate that these OPs compete in their ow

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[W0MU]

So what is the difference if I build a station for $100,000 or I rent 
one for whatever it costs?  Nothing.  I guess the guy that can't climb 
towers who has to pay someone else to climb it and fix his stuff should 
be shoved into another category too?


I must have missed what is the big prize for #1 Honor roll?  A plaque?   
I hope that you feel good about yourself because of other things not 
because you managed to work them all.  As I said before #1 has been at 
it longer, has better stuff and plays radio more and probably is located 
in a better location.


CQ has a competition every year and I get that.  It starts over every 
year and it is a rush to work as many as you can.  Once again the 
winners will have great stations and tons of time.  Congrats to the 
winners.  I think Honor Roll #1 means much more to you that have decided 
to make this a strange competition that really doesn't have a start date 
or and end, then it does the majority of active hams.


Bitch all you like about Remote Radio it is here to stay just like 
packet and the ARRL is certainly not going to exclude anyone.


I could care less who is or is not using Remote radio.  I hope more 
people do as we could use more activity on the bands.  I would love to 
see old timers and most of the ham population are old timers now be able 
to operate from nursing homes, condo's, rv's etc.  I guess you would 
rather them be shoved to the streets and ignored.


What you are asking for is less competition in your competition which is 
a bit hypocritical isn't it?  Removing players from the DXCC field 
waters down your victory doesn't it?


Why would the rules change now after remotes being allowed for 50 
years?  Paying for a service is not even relevant to the conversation so 
lets not make it one.How I get on the air is really none of your 
business.





On 7/12/2015 2:47 PM, Cecil wrote:

It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own 
admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal about 
paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.

Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of way 
but competitive it is.

It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the guy 
with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with 100 
Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy with 100 
Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill levels that 
playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all you have for a 
station.

Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class changes 
were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best it could be 
within your means and to improve your operating skills.

For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station 
capability was recognized and different competitive classes were formedso 
the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of accomplishment by 
competing with guys generally equipped like him.

In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky neighborhood 
that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because hubby needed space 
and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers, antennas and suchno 
worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live there)

We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet connection 
and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where the DX is today 
and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E skip action 
anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the skip zone 
today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station that can hear 
that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper is piling up...

What's a traditional station OP to do...he's been working hard for years, 
building new antennas, buying commercial products and improving his station 
whenever he can, staying up late nights or getting up early mornings.  An 
expected normal progression for Ham Radiohe is close to finishing his DXCC 
on 160 and a guy that don't even own a station...or worse owns a small station 
but doesn't use it to work the hard ones, lands his first 100 on 160 in his 
first year of being on the air.

He throws up his hands and says what's the point...and certainly won't be 
buying any more commercial products to try and improve his stationand out 
of business go more of the commercial equipment makers.

Now...

I don't have a problem with technology and its advancement...I'm a technical 
guy.  But the advantages that paid or even shared remote station access allows 
should dictate that these OPs compete in their own class with others that are 
leveraging that advantage.

The exception to this is the guy that has built his station on a remote site on 
land he owns or leases for that purpose because he has noise is

Re: Topband: DXCC etc

[lmecseri]

KE1F Lou


Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S®4. By KE1F

 Original message 
From: Roger D Johnson  
Date: 07/12/2015  3:08 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Top Band Reflector  
Subject: Topband: DXCC etc 

I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I understand them 
correctly:

1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the contacts count
towards my DXCC.

2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count towards my 
DXCC.

So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What the heck
matters anymore?

73, Roger



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote Question..

[Dave Heil]

Bill,

There was no competition among those who walked to school, no matter 
what the distance.  There were no awards, annual listings, pins, 
certificates, plaques or such.


The internet is akin to telephones and cable television more than to 
amateur radio.  If you're making your way to Topband DXCC with stations 
on both coasts and receivers/antennas on various continents, you are not 
operating in the spirit of the awards.


73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On 7/12/2015 3:00 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:

Hi Mike,

There really is a difference among all the people who walked to school
and back every school day for 12 years or so. Some of them lived across
the street and others lived ten miles away, uphill both ways . I do see that somebody who did all of a DX challenge from their
home location has more bragging rights than somebody who did parts of it
over the internet.

This message was done in part with the internet. Doing it all by radio
would be *more* fun.

73,

Bill  KU8H

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Cecil]

It's obvious the DXCC award system is not important to you by your own 
admission, which doesn't put you in the best of positions to be so vocal about 
paid/shared remote station access and its impact on the award systems.

Call it what you will it's very competitive...in an individualized sort of way 
but competitive it is.

It is a badge of honor for those passionate about such things.  Yes the guy 
with the $100,000 station most days has an advantage over the guy with 100 
Watts and a wire...but some days the propagation Gods shine on the guy with 100 
Watts and he beats the big bucks station out..also operator skill levels that 
playing field as well...you learn those things when that's all you have for a 
station.

Yes we have always faced those kind of challenges and no rule or class changes 
were really needed.  It was incentive to make your station the best it could be 
within your means and to improve your operating skills.

For contesters things were a bit better as the differences in station 
capability was recognized and different competitive classes were formedso 
the guy with 100 Watts and a wire could feel a sense of accomplishment by 
competing with guys generally equipped like him.

In today's world where one could finally move into that swanky neighborhood 
that the wife has always wanted to live but couldn't because hubby needed space 
and acceptance to put up all those ugly wires, towers, antennas and suchno 
worries! (That's my wife...and we still don't live there)

We can pick up a radio front panel for a song and a smokin internet connection 
and just dial up whatever superstation has propagation to where the DX is today 
and bag em.  Just think about being able to get in on that E skip action 
anytime it happens just by dialing up a station that is in the skip zone 
today...and 160 DXCC...just dial around until you find a station that can hear 
that rare DX station that's on tonight.  The wall paper is piling up...

What's a traditional station OP to do...he's been working hard for years, 
building new antennas, buying commercial products and improving his station 
whenever he can, staying up late nights or getting up early mornings.  An 
expected normal progression for Ham Radiohe is close to finishing his DXCC 
on 160 and a guy that don't even own a station...or worse owns a small station 
but doesn't use it to work the hard ones, lands his first 100 on 160 in his 
first year of being on the air.

He throws up his hands and says what's the point...and certainly won't be 
buying any more commercial products to try and improve his stationand out 
of business go more of the commercial equipment makers.

Now...

I don't have a problem with technology and its advancement...I'm a technical 
guy.  But the advantages that paid or even shared remote station access allows 
should dictate that these OPs compete in their own class with others that are 
leveraging that advantage.

The exception to this is the guy that has built his station on a remote site on 
land he owns or leases for that purpose because he has noise issues he can't 
overcome or he lives in the subdivision with an HOA that won't allow his 
antennas, but he still wants to compete on the bands...that remote station is 
his primary station...it's just a traditional station accessed remotely by its 
owner...no problemgood use of today's technology.

You own property on three different coasts and one remote island and have 
stations on all of themthe new DXCC/Contesting class is ready made for you 
too...

I think new class structure language in the DXCC and various contest rules is 
the only viable answer...

Don't limit technology, adapt to it to allow its advancement but as it evolves 
allow the traditional station owner to continue to practice his kind of Ham 
Radio on a traditional playing fieldfact is probably 90 percent of stations 
are traditional styled operations anyway.

Soap box mode OFF...

Cecil
K5DL




Sent using recycled electrons.

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 2:16 PM, W0MU  wrote:
> 
> I think much of the issue with RHR is people are bent out of shape that a 
> group of people have jumped on this and appear to be doing quite well.  
> Business must be booming as they are adding new stations constantly.
> 
> Personally I have a decent station and am not interested in renting station 
> time.
> 
> In the end the challenge is personal.  The award is whatever you make it.
> 
> DXCC is DXCC.  If you feel better that you worked it from the same location 
> using wet noodles more power to you.
> 
> If you are chasing DX to impress other people I think you are doing it wrong. 
>  When you focus on yourself and what you are doing then these little "issues" 
> become non issues.
> 
> My Dad told me a long time ago in business was to quit paying so much about 
> the other guy and start focusing on my business and what my strength were.
> 
> I have been a ham since 1978.  Honor roll number 1 mean very

Re: Topband: New Commercial Remote Service

[James Rodenkirch]

Hahwell done, Larry!!!  Always envious of people who can take a 
topical subkect area and give it a comedic but germane twistgood on ya!!
 
72 de Jim R. K9JWV

 
> From: w...@sbcglobal.net
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 13:13:17 -0500
> Subject: Topband: New Commercial Remote Service
> 
> VERIZON WIRELESS TO OFFER REMOTE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
> 
>  
> 
> BASKING RIDGE, NJ (Roytours) - The nation's largest wireless company
> announced today that it plans to enter the remote ham radio station business
> to serve amateur radio operators. Verizon Wireless, a wholly owned
> subsidiary of Verizon Communications, Inc. [VZ, -4.25%] indicated that the
> stations are a natural fit with their existing infrastructure and require
> little additional investment. Customers will be able to talk all over the
> world using only their cell phone. The service will be available via
> subscription to existing Verizon customers. Coverage is expected to be the
> same as Verizon's current 4G coverage area, with all calls routed to high
> powered stations located on the east and west coasts of the United States. 
> 
>  
> 
> "At first we really didn't understand why this service was needed" said
> company spokesperson Ben Dover. "We had a misconception that ham radio
> operators built their own stations and advanced technology. Then we learned
> that there was a subculture in the hobby that tried to talk to as many
> countries as possible using any means available and many were already using
> a personal computer to talk to those countries. Some didn't even own a
> radio. Often they were using a service that offers complete anonymity"
> 
>  
> 
> When asked how the new service is different from how Verizon customers
> currently call other countries, Dover hesitated. "Well it IS another revenue
> stream", he replied. 
> 
>  
> 
> Software developers have been quick to respond to the announcement. One such
> developer, who prefers to go by the name SchrockRock, is working on iPhone
> applications called DXCodeReadR and ThisisHowIHonorRoll (THIHR for short).
> SchrockRock explained that THIHR continuously monitors a notification system
> called the "cluster" and checks to see if the ham needs a country that has
> been "spotted" there. If the ham needs it, THIHR automatically works in
> concert with DXCodeReadR to generate what hams call a "QSO" to snag that new
> country, even while the ham sleeps. "It's all about convincing users that
> they are advancing technology", SchrockRock added in a recent post to
> reddit. 
> 
>  
> 
> Markets also reacted quickly, sending Verizon stock down as much as 6% in
> early trading. Reached on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, trader
> Larry Burke summed up the market's reaction, "There was a going-in concern
> about the ethics associated with this type of service as applied to what
> hams call the DXCC program. But when brokers are able to explain that not
> even the national association of amateur radio operators, the ARRL, is able
> to define 'ethics', most concerns evaporate".
> 
>  
> 
> Currently, there are few players in the commercial remote business. The
> largest, RemoteHamRadio.com or RHR for short, operates a network of remotes,
> many of which are located in New York state. Verizon spokesperson Dover said
> his company realized the potential "when the FCC chose to look the other way
> with enforcement of Part 97 and common carrier regulations as they applied
> to this type of service".  
> 
>  
> 
> Users of existing services seem to enjoy them. One California ham, who goes
> by the callsign NJ6YOY, had this to say: "These remotes are fantastic. Just
> yesterday I had a PL-259 fail on the coax going into the back of my radio.
> The technician told me it would be three weeks before he could come out and
> fix it. Three weeks! What was I supposed to do in the meantime? I thought to
> myself, 'now this is a case for remote stations'. I whipped out my
> MasterCard and signed up for RHR. I didn't even need one of those K3/0
> doohickeys. I just did my DXing with my computer. Things were going great
> and then my internets stopped working. Fortunately for me there was another
> RHR subscriber nearby. I used his internets to work four new ones in one
> day. The guy I talked to in Ireland was really happy to work California on
> six meters, too. He said he thought the band was only open to New York, but
> when I confirmed our QSO on LoTW he was tickled shirtless to see he had
> worked a new state". It is not clear to the uninitiated what all of this
> means, but NJ6YOY sounded very excited about his new conquests. With
> Verizon's new service he won't have to worry about his 'internets' going
> down either. All he will have to do is keep his iPhone charged.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> [yes, it's satire]
> 
>  
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
  
_

Re: Topband: RemoteHams Android Client

[jh-...@sbcglobal.net]

Folks:
"Commercial Remote?"  Far from it.  I am a traditional Top Band DX chaser since 
2007, formerly operating with very good success from an apartment with a 600W 
station and a full-sized inverted L.  I have been an HF and above DX chaser 
over nearly 40 years of hamming, and more recently an avid /M op, mostly CW 
(270 or so worked since 2004).  All those operations have had nothing to do 
with remotes with the exception of a single 30M CW contact I made last year 
using a remote in Central CA. 
Nonetheless, remotes are a highly valuable resource, and might be the only way 
for hams to achieve worthy objectives, and the only way for some to get on the 
air.  In my case, I run a weekly net on 2 Meters in CA using resources 
available to me on RemoteHams.com, and that's the only viable, no-cost way I 
could do that from Nevada or wherever else I might be at the time. The folks 
who authored and developed this resource are not only my good friends, they are 
accomplished hams who have designed the remote application with genius and 
insight. Think that celphone remote ops are a satirical dream?  Think again!   
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.remotehams.rcforb.client
Fellow hams, I urge you to re-examine your attitudes concerning remote 
operations, what they mean to the hobby, and whether there's any appreciable 
difference between an op visiting a station and picking up a mic or key, and 
the same op sending audio via VOIP to the same station and being broadcast from 
it in that manner, with appropriate (courtesy) "/" identification.  As a 
Topband DXer, I completely understand the objections to claiming a DX "contact" 
on 160 using an RX (or even TX)  remote close to the DX in place of distant 
ears and station resources, but the objections are less valid if the remote is 
in the same country or even the same state or county as the ham using it, and 
the contact would otherwise be completely valid if the ham traveled to and was 
present at the remote site to make the contact.   

Best 73 de John, W6UQZ  From: Mike Waters 
 To: Larry Burke  
Cc: topband  
 Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 11:24 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: New Commercial Remote Service
   
You had me going for a few minutes!
Are you going to send this again on April 1, 2016? ;-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Larry Burke  wrote:

> VERIZON WIRELESS TO OFFER REMOTE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
>
>
>
> BASKING RIDGE, NJ (Roytours) - The nation's largest wireless company
> announced today that it plans to enter the remote ham radio station
> business
> to serve amateur radio operators. Verizon Wireless, a wholly owned
> subsidiary of Verizon Communications, Inc. [VZ, -4.25%] indicated that the
> stations are a natural fit with their existing infrastructure and require
> little additional investment. Customers will be able to talk all over the
> world using only their cell phone. The service will be available via
> subscription to existing Verizon customers. Coverage is expected to be the
> same as Verizon's current 4G coverage area, with all calls routed to high
> powered stations located on the east and west coasts of the United States.
>
>
>
> "At first we really didn't understand why this service was needed" said
> company spokesperson Ben Dover. "We had a misconception that ham radio
> operators built their own stations and advanced technology. Then we learned
> that there was a subculture in the hobby that tried to talk to as many
> countries as possible using any means available and many were already using
> a personal computer to talk to those countries. Some didn't even own a
> radio. Often they were using a service that offers complete anonymity"
>
>
>
> When asked how the new service is different from how Verizon customers
> currently call other countries, Dover hesitated. "Well it IS another
> revenue
> stream", he replied.
>
>
>
> Software developers have been quick to respond to the announcement. One
> such
> developer, who prefers to go by the name SchrockRock, is working on iPhone
> applications called DXCodeReadR and ThisisHowIHonorRoll (THIHR for short).
> SchrockRock explained that THIHR continuously monitors a notification
> system
> called the "cluster" and checks to see if the ham needs a country that has
> been "spotted" there. If the ham needs it, THIHR automatically works in
> concert with DXCodeReadR to generate what hams call a "QSO" to snag that
> new
> country, even while the ham sleeps. "It's all about convincing users that
> they are advancing technology", SchrockRock added in a recent post to
> reddit.
>
>
>
> Markets also reacted quickly, sending Verizon stock down as much as 6% in
> early trading. Reached on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, trader
> Larry Burke summed up the market's reaction, "There was a going-in concern
> about the ethics associated with this type of service as applied to what
> hams call the DXCC program. But when brokers are able to explain t

Re: Topband: New Commercial Remote Service

[Cecil]

Maybe a new licensing incentive is in order to get the numbers up...

Pass your General and get your DXCC thrown in (first 100).
Pass your Extra and you go at the bottom of the Honor Roll.

Incentive still remains...work your way to Honor Roll as a General or upgrade 
and then work your way up the Honor Roll...

I mean DXCC and Honor Roll shouldn't be any harder than it is to get a license 
today huh?

Levity...

Cecil
K5DL

Sent using recycled electrons.

> On Jul 12, 2015, at 1:24 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:
> 
> You had me going for a few minutes!
> Are you going to send this again on April 1, 2016? ;-)
> 
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Larry Burke  wrote:
>> 
>> VERIZON WIRELESS TO OFFER REMOTE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> BASKING RIDGE, NJ (Roytours) - The nation's largest wireless company
>> announced today that it plans to enter the remote ham radio station
>> business
>> to serve amateur radio operators. Verizon Wireless, a wholly owned
>> subsidiary of Verizon Communications, Inc. [VZ, -4.25%] indicated that the
>> stations are a natural fit with their existing infrastructure and require
>> little additional investment. Customers will be able to talk all over the
>> world using only their cell phone. The service will be available via
>> subscription to existing Verizon customers. Coverage is expected to be the
>> same as Verizon's current 4G coverage area, with all calls routed to high
>> powered stations located on the east and west coasts of the United States.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "At first we really didn't understand why this service was needed" said
>> company spokesperson Ben Dover. "We had a misconception that ham radio
>> operators built their own stations and advanced technology. Then we learned
>> that there was a subculture in the hobby that tried to talk to as many
>> countries as possible using any means available and many were already using
>> a personal computer to talk to those countries. Some didn't even own a
>> radio. Often they were using a service that offers complete anonymity"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> When asked how the new service is different from how Verizon customers
>> currently call other countries, Dover hesitated. "Well it IS another
>> revenue
>> stream", he replied.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Software developers have been quick to respond to the announcement. One
>> such
>> developer, who prefers to go by the name SchrockRock, is working on iPhone
>> applications called DXCodeReadR and ThisisHowIHonorRoll (THIHR for short).
>> SchrockRock explained that THIHR continuously monitors a notification
>> system
>> called the "cluster" and checks to see if the ham needs a country that has
>> been "spotted" there. If the ham needs it, THIHR automatically works in
>> concert with DXCodeReadR to generate what hams call a "QSO" to snag that
>> new
>> country, even while the ham sleeps. "It's all about convincing users that
>> they are advancing technology", SchrockRock added in a recent post to
>> reddit.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Markets also reacted quickly, sending Verizon stock down as much as 6% in
>> early trading. Reached on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, trader
>> Larry Burke summed up the market's reaction, "There was a going-in concern
>> about the ethics associated with this type of service as applied to what
>> hams call the DXCC program. But when brokers are able to explain that not
>> even the national association of amateur radio operators, the ARRL, is able
>> to define 'ethics', most concerns evaporate".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Currently, there are few players in the commercial remote business. The
>> largest, RemoteHamRadio.com or RHR for short, operates a network of
>> remotes,
>> many of which are located in New York state. Verizon spokesperson Dover
>> said
>> his company realized the potential "when the FCC chose to look the other
>> way
>> with enforcement of Part 97 and common carrier regulations as they applied
>> to this type of service".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Users of existing services seem to enjoy them. One California ham, who goes
>> by the callsign NJ6YOY, had this to say: "These remotes are fantastic. Just
>> yesterday I had a PL-259 fail on the coax going into the back of my radio.
>> The technician told me it would be three weeks before he could come out and
>> fix it. Three weeks! What was I supposed to do in the meantime? I thought
>> to
>> myself, 'now this is a case for remote stations'. I whipped out my
>> MasterCard and signed up for RHR. I didn't even need one of those K3/0
>> doohickeys. I just did my DXing with my computer. Things were going great
>> and then my internets stopped working. Fortunately for me there was another
>> RHR subscriber nearby. I used his internets to work four new ones in one
>> day. The guy I talked to in Ireland was really happy to work California on
>> six meters, too. He said he thought the band was only open to New York, but
>> when I confirmed our QSO on LoTW he was tickled shirtless to see he had
>> worked a 

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[W0MU]

I think much of the issue with RHR is people are bent out of shape that 
a group of people have jumped on this and appear to be doing quite 
well.  Business must be booming as they are adding new stations constantly.


Personally I have a decent station and am not interested in renting 
station time.


In the end the challenge is personal.  The award is whatever you make it.

DXCC is DXCC.  If you feel better that you worked it from the same 
location using wet noodles more power to you.


If you are chasing DX to impress other people I think you are doing it 
wrong.  When you focus on yourself and what you are doing then these 
little "issues" become non issues.


My Dad told me a long time ago in business was to quit paying so much 
about the other guy and start focusing on my business and what my 
strength were.


I have been a ham since 1978.  Honor roll number 1 mean very little to 
me.  What it says is that you have either been doing this longer than 
me, spend more time on the radio, have a better setup, etc.  It doesn't 
mean that you are a better DXer.  I hear so called big DXers in pileups 
calling endlessly with no clue about how pileups work etc.  Lots of 
great DXers are in and out of a pileup before you know it.  Many of 
those guys may or may not have DXCC.  I waited for over 20 years to 
apply for DXCC and the award is still in the tube..


Be proud of yourself and what you have done.  The watering down of the 
award is in your head.


On 7/12/2015 7:32 AM, n...@comcast.net wrote:

Good morning. I have followed with interest the discussion on this subject. I 
enjoyed hearing both sides of the issue from my fellow DXers. Most of the 
replies have been both thoughtful and respectful and I thank you for that.
I thought you may find it interesting to hear a comment from the perspective of 
an RHR user. Perhaps some of the others who comment also used that service 
(which seems to have triggered this debate) but I don't remember seeing that. I 
have been an RHR customer for two years. I have been a DXer for the entire 42 
years of my amateur career. Climbing the DX Challenge ladder is my principal 
goal. I have a home station focused on 6, 80 and 160. 93.5% of the entities I 
need for the Challenge are on these three bands. I have a full sized quarter 
wave vertical for 160 (and 8 560 ' beverages), a 4 square for 80 and a 9 
element M2 at 80' for 6. The station works well and has been productive. But as 
you know from 160 propagation is finicky. And for those who have not spent time 
on 6, it is even more so there. I rent the RHR stations because they give me 
more opportunities to work new ones for the Challenge. It is simply another 
tool I use to accomplish my goal. And unless the DXCC rul

es

   change I will continue to do so. I appreciate, and respect, those who feel 
this somehow violates the spirit of the DXCC program. I simply do not agree.
Ham radio has always had a prickly relationship with technology. On one hand we love the 
cool gadgets and the hobby would die without them. On the other, it forces us to deal 
with change. Anyone remember the debate about using packet clusters to work DX? 
"Shooting fish in a barrel" was a common criticism of those who used that 
technology. Remember when there was a move to ban from DXCC credit qsos made on a list?
I suspect remote technology is here to stay; the ARRL BOD has already spoken 
once on that matter and were quite clear. What I would suggest is view this 
technology as simply a tool; available to all willing to pay the fee (just like 
our expensive radios, antennas, amps, etc.) . Use it or don't use it. The 
choice is yours. Best, Steve, NN4T
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: DXCC etc

[Roger D Johnson]

I just did a quick perusal of the current DXCC rules. If I understand them 
correctly:


1. Another ham can operate my station, using my call, and the contacts count
towards my DXCC.

2. I can go to his station, sign my call, and the contacts count towards my 
DXCC.

So...the station doesn't matter and the operator doesn't matter. What the heck
matters anymore?

73, Roger



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[W0MU]

Well said Dave!

On 7/12/2015 10:49 AM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:

The reaction of the DXing community to new technology over the years has been 
extremely interesting to observe. Some ops are early
adopters, applying every bleeding-edge technology available that isn't explicitly 
prohibited by "the rules". At the other extreme
are ops who effectively camp on the technology available at the time they 
became DXers, and argue that any use of
subsequently-developed new technology would diminish the value of DXCC awards. 
Vigorous (and sometimes nasty) debates across this
spectrum are as old as DXing, and will likely never end.

The ARRL is in the unenviable position of having to keep the DXCC program 
"attractive" in the face of relentless technical change
and the broad range of DXer "attitudes" described above. To make things more 
interesting, they are human, and thus occasionally make
mistakes. It is the nature of DXing award programs that some mistakes cannot be 
corrected, at least not until time machines become
available.

At the root of all of this is our nature to compete. If DXCC were purely a set 
of personal achievement awards, then each op would
choose his or her "technology ground rules", and sally forth accordingly. Some 
DXers do just that. However,

< http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-standings>

isn't entitled "DXCC Standings" for no reason. Some of us compete, and compete hard, 
fueling demands for a "level playing field".

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that competitive DXers will never be happy. 
Someone else will always have an unfair advantage,
because short of requiring *all* DXers to live within the same flat 200 km 
circle and use identical rigs/ants/apps, the DXCC playing
field can never be leveled.

My advice? Don't suffer in silence, convey constructive suggestions to your 
ARRL representatives.  But when the DXCC rules change or
don't change,  recognize that you are one of a large, diverse community that 
cannot possibly all be simultaneously pleased.

DX Is!

  73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: New Commercial Remote Service

[Mike Waters]

You had me going for a few minutes!
Are you going to send this again on April 1, 2016? ;-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Larry Burke  wrote:

> VERIZON WIRELESS TO OFFER REMOTE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
>
>
>
> BASKING RIDGE, NJ (Roytours) - The nation's largest wireless company
> announced today that it plans to enter the remote ham radio station
> business
> to serve amateur radio operators. Verizon Wireless, a wholly owned
> subsidiary of Verizon Communications, Inc. [VZ, -4.25%] indicated that the
> stations are a natural fit with their existing infrastructure and require
> little additional investment. Customers will be able to talk all over the
> world using only their cell phone. The service will be available via
> subscription to existing Verizon customers. Coverage is expected to be the
> same as Verizon's current 4G coverage area, with all calls routed to high
> powered stations located on the east and west coasts of the United States.
>
>
>
> "At first we really didn't understand why this service was needed" said
> company spokesperson Ben Dover. "We had a misconception that ham radio
> operators built their own stations and advanced technology. Then we learned
> that there was a subculture in the hobby that tried to talk to as many
> countries as possible using any means available and many were already using
> a personal computer to talk to those countries. Some didn't even own a
> radio. Often they were using a service that offers complete anonymity"
>
>
>
> When asked how the new service is different from how Verizon customers
> currently call other countries, Dover hesitated. "Well it IS another
> revenue
> stream", he replied.
>
>
>
> Software developers have been quick to respond to the announcement. One
> such
> developer, who prefers to go by the name SchrockRock, is working on iPhone
> applications called DXCodeReadR and ThisisHowIHonorRoll (THIHR for short).
> SchrockRock explained that THIHR continuously monitors a notification
> system
> called the "cluster" and checks to see if the ham needs a country that has
> been "spotted" there. If the ham needs it, THIHR automatically works in
> concert with DXCodeReadR to generate what hams call a "QSO" to snag that
> new
> country, even while the ham sleeps. "It's all about convincing users that
> they are advancing technology", SchrockRock added in a recent post to
> reddit.
>
>
>
> Markets also reacted quickly, sending Verizon stock down as much as 6% in
> early trading. Reached on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, trader
> Larry Burke summed up the market's reaction, "There was a going-in concern
> about the ethics associated with this type of service as applied to what
> hams call the DXCC program. But when brokers are able to explain that not
> even the national association of amateur radio operators, the ARRL, is able
> to define 'ethics', most concerns evaporate".
>
>
>
> Currently, there are few players in the commercial remote business. The
> largest, RemoteHamRadio.com or RHR for short, operates a network of
> remotes,
> many of which are located in New York state. Verizon spokesperson Dover
> said
> his company realized the potential "when the FCC chose to look the other
> way
> with enforcement of Part 97 and common carrier regulations as they applied
> to this type of service".
>
>
>
> Users of existing services seem to enjoy them. One California ham, who goes
> by the callsign NJ6YOY, had this to say: "These remotes are fantastic. Just
> yesterday I had a PL-259 fail on the coax going into the back of my radio.
> The technician told me it would be three weeks before he could come out and
> fix it. Three weeks! What was I supposed to do in the meantime? I thought
> to
> myself, 'now this is a case for remote stations'. I whipped out my
> MasterCard and signed up for RHR. I didn't even need one of those K3/0
> doohickeys. I just did my DXing with my computer. Things were going great
> and then my internets stopped working. Fortunately for me there was another
> RHR subscriber nearby. I used his internets to work four new ones in one
> day. The guy I talked to in Ireland was really happy to work California on
> six meters, too. He said he thought the band was only open to New York, but
> when I confirmed our QSO on LoTW he was tickled shirtless to see he had
> worked a new state". It is not clear to the uninitiated what all of this
> means, but NJ6YOY sounded very excited about his new conquests. With
> Verizon's new service he won't have to worry about his 'internets' going
> down either. All he will have to do is keep his iPhone charged.
>
>
>
>
>
> [yes, it's satire]
>
>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: New Commercial Remote Service

[Larry Burke]

VERIZON WIRELESS TO OFFER REMOTE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE

 

BASKING RIDGE, NJ (Roytours) - The nation's largest wireless company
announced today that it plans to enter the remote ham radio station business
to serve amateur radio operators. Verizon Wireless, a wholly owned
subsidiary of Verizon Communications, Inc. [VZ, -4.25%] indicated that the
stations are a natural fit with their existing infrastructure and require
little additional investment. Customers will be able to talk all over the
world using only their cell phone. The service will be available via
subscription to existing Verizon customers. Coverage is expected to be the
same as Verizon's current 4G coverage area, with all calls routed to high
powered stations located on the east and west coasts of the United States. 

 

"At first we really didn't understand why this service was needed" said
company spokesperson Ben Dover. "We had a misconception that ham radio
operators built their own stations and advanced technology. Then we learned
that there was a subculture in the hobby that tried to talk to as many
countries as possible using any means available and many were already using
a personal computer to talk to those countries. Some didn't even own a
radio. Often they were using a service that offers complete anonymity"

 

When asked how the new service is different from how Verizon customers
currently call other countries, Dover hesitated. "Well it IS another revenue
stream", he replied. 

 

Software developers have been quick to respond to the announcement. One such
developer, who prefers to go by the name SchrockRock, is working on iPhone
applications called DXCodeReadR and ThisisHowIHonorRoll (THIHR for short).
SchrockRock explained that THIHR continuously monitors a notification system
called the "cluster" and checks to see if the ham needs a country that has
been "spotted" there. If the ham needs it, THIHR automatically works in
concert with DXCodeReadR to generate what hams call a "QSO" to snag that new
country, even while the ham sleeps. "It's all about convincing users that
they are advancing technology", SchrockRock added in a recent post to
reddit. 

 

Markets also reacted quickly, sending Verizon stock down as much as 6% in
early trading. Reached on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, trader
Larry Burke summed up the market's reaction, "There was a going-in concern
about the ethics associated with this type of service as applied to what
hams call the DXCC program. But when brokers are able to explain that not
even the national association of amateur radio operators, the ARRL, is able
to define 'ethics', most concerns evaporate".

 

Currently, there are few players in the commercial remote business. The
largest, RemoteHamRadio.com or RHR for short, operates a network of remotes,
many of which are located in New York state. Verizon spokesperson Dover said
his company realized the potential "when the FCC chose to look the other way
with enforcement of Part 97 and common carrier regulations as they applied
to this type of service".  

 

Users of existing services seem to enjoy them. One California ham, who goes
by the callsign NJ6YOY, had this to say: "These remotes are fantastic. Just
yesterday I had a PL-259 fail on the coax going into the back of my radio.
The technician told me it would be three weeks before he could come out and
fix it. Three weeks! What was I supposed to do in the meantime? I thought to
myself, 'now this is a case for remote stations'. I whipped out my
MasterCard and signed up for RHR. I didn't even need one of those K3/0
doohickeys. I just did my DXing with my computer. Things were going great
and then my internets stopped working. Fortunately for me there was another
RHR subscriber nearby. I used his internets to work four new ones in one
day. The guy I talked to in Ireland was really happy to work California on
six meters, too. He said he thought the band was only open to New York, but
when I confirmed our QSO on LoTW he was tickled shirtless to see he had
worked a new state". It is not clear to the uninitiated what all of this
means, but NJ6YOY sounded very excited about his new conquests. With
Verizon's new service he won't have to worry about his 'internets' going
down either. All he will have to do is keep his iPhone charged.

 

 

[yes, it's satire]

 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Dave AA6YQ]

The reaction of the DXing community to new technology over the years has been 
extremely interesting to observe. Some ops are early
adopters, applying every bleeding-edge technology available that isn't 
explicitly prohibited by "the rules". At the other extreme
are ops who effectively camp on the technology available at the time they 
became DXers, and argue that any use of
subsequently-developed new technology would diminish the value of DXCC awards. 
Vigorous (and sometimes nasty) debates across this
spectrum are as old as DXing, and will likely never end.

The ARRL is in the unenviable position of having to keep the DXCC program 
"attractive" in the face of relentless technical change
and the broad range of DXer "attitudes" described above. To make things more 
interesting, they are human, and thus occasionally make
mistakes. It is the nature of DXing award programs that some mistakes cannot be 
corrected, at least not until time machines become
available.

At the root of all of this is our nature to compete. If DXCC were purely a set 
of personal achievement awards, then each op would
choose his or her "technology ground rules", and sally forth accordingly. Some 
DXers do just that. However, 

< http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-standings>

isn't entitled "DXCC Standings" for no reason. Some of us compete, and compete 
hard, fueling demands for a "level playing field".

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that competitive DXers will never be happy. 
Someone else will always have an unfair advantage,
because short of requiring *all* DXers to live within the same flat 200 km 
circle and use identical rigs/ants/apps, the DXCC playing
field can never be leveled.

My advice? Don't suffer in silence, convey constructive suggestions to your 
ARRL representatives.  But when the DXCC rules change or
don't change,  recognize that you are one of a large, diverse community that 
cannot possibly all be simultaneously pleased.

DX Is!

 73,

  Dave, AA6YQ

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Charlie]

Steve, the perspective of an award chasing RHR user who also has a well 
equipped home station has been missing from the discussion.  Thanks for 
providing it.   There are others who share your views.  The availability of the 
paid remotes, either in geographically advantageous locations and or using 
super stations, has made it possible to instantly change transmitting/receiving 
location to suit the prop.   Some folks have already had this ability, either 
through their own remote QTH or arrangements with friends.   The paid remotes 
have opened favorable propagation selection of station location to the masses.  
 
 
DX chasing is not a life or death situation, as someone else pointed out.  I 
have been licensed since 1962 but was only a casual DXer until retirement in 
2008.  I rarely sent of a DX QSL and did not apply for my first formal DXCC 
award until 2009.   At retirement, I did set some DX operating and award 
chasing goals:  160M DXCC, 6M DXCC, DXCC on 10 bands, Honor Roll, Challenge 
3000 and 160 WAZ.   Better late than never.  
 
My perspective on the awards is that their value would be cheapened for me if 
shortcuts were taken to earn them.  Cheapened to the point of:  why bother?   I 
could have achieved 6M DXCC long before now by logging into a W6 west coast 
station to work the Pacific Islands/Asia  or logging into a Maine station to 
work EU more often and more easily.  The award would just not be meaningful to 
me if earned in that manner.  Ditto the other awards mentioned.   There are 
many folks who feel as I do.  I understand there are many folks who don't feel 
as I do.  
 
I generally don't care what others do if they don't affect me.  The  prop 
window on Topband is sometimes short.  When I have to stand in line behind a  
long list of east cost remote users to break a rare DX pileup from western WV,  
I might have to rethink my Topband participation.  So far it has not come to 
that.  
 
So far, most of my goals have been achieved without what, to me, are shortcuts. 
 The last was 6M DXCC, with the application currently pending with ARRL.   
Still to go, 160 WAZ (2 more zones needed) and Challenge 3000 (2700 plus and 
counting).  
 
Interesting discussion.  I appreciate the civility of it. 
 
73 Charlie N8RR 
 
   
   
 
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 13:32:30 +
> From: n...@comcast.net
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: The Remote question
> 
> Good morning. I have followed with interest the discussion on this subject. I 
> enjoyed hearing both sides of the issue from my fellow DXers. Most of the 
> replies have been both thoughtful and respectful and I thank you for that. 
> I thought you may find it interesting to hear a comment from the perspective 
> of an RHR user. Perhaps some of the others who comment also used that service 
> (which seems to have triggered this debate) but I don't remember seeing that. 
> I have been an RHR customer for two years. I have been a DXer for the entire 
> 42 years of my amateur career. Climbing the DX Challenge ladder is my 
> principal goal. I have a home station focused on 6, 80 and 160. 93.5% of the 
> entities I need for the Challenge are on these three bands. I have a full 
> sized quarter wave vertical for 160 (and 8 560 ' beverages), a 4 square for 
> 80 and a 9 element M2 at 80' for 6. The station works well and has been 
> productive. But as you know from 160 propagation is finicky. And for those 
> who have not spent time on 6, it is even more so there. I rent the RHR 
> stations because they give me more opportunities to work new ones for the 
> Challenge. It is simply another tool I use to accomplish my goal. And unless 
> the DXCC rul
 es
>   change I will continue to do so. I appreciate, and respect, those who feel 
> this somehow violates the spirit of the DXCC program. I simply do not agree. 
> Ham radio has always had a prickly relationship with technology. On one hand 
> we love the cool gadgets and the hobby would die without them. On the other, 
> it forces us to deal with change. Anyone remember the debate about using 
> packet clusters to work DX? "Shooting fish in a barrel" was a common 
> criticism of those who used that technology. Remember when there was a move 
> to ban from DXCC credit qsos made on a list? 
> I suspect remote technology is here to stay; the ARRL BOD has already spoken 
> once on that matter and were quite clear. What I would suggest is view this 
> technology as simply a tool; available to all willing to pay the fee (just 
> like our expensive radios, antennas, amps, etc.) . Use it or don't use it. 
> The choice is yours. Best, Steve, NN4T 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
  
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[T R Mortimer]

"...Will the last guy who actually emits RF from his station please remember to
turn off the rig..".

Why bother ?  There'll be nobody listening !

73 de Mort,  SV5/G2JL
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote Question..

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi Mike,

There really is a difference among all the people who walked to school 
and back every school day for 12 years or so. Some of them lived across 
the street and others lived ten miles away, uphill both ways grin>. I do see that somebody who did all of a DX challenge from their 
home location has more bragging rights than somebody who did parts of it 
over the internet.


This message was done in part with the internet. Doing it all by radio 
would be *more* fun.


73,

Bill  KU8H




On 07/12/2015 10:37 AM, Mike Greenway wrote:

Sad indeed to see the post this morning.  The idiom “the means justify the end” 
is true in this case for sure.  I guess eventually the rules will say lets just 
call them on the phone and exchange reports, as we are near that with remotes 
now.  That makes it easier and I guess that is what everyone wants as in 
school, if too many students are failing lets make the test easier.

I will not take the easy way out to increase my Challenge totals although that 
is my primary goal in radio these days.  The spirit and challenge of what DXCC 
was meant to be has eroded for sure.  If that makes you feel good jumping coast 
to coast for the best prop, go for it.  I always wondered why I was being beat 
out on 160 and 6 by certain 4 land stations and I can ignore their Challenge 
totals now that I know they don’t really believe it is a true Challenge.  Don’t 
use technology as part of the argument.  73 Mike K4PI



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote question

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your comments. I may seem like a true heretic being on this 
list. I'm not a *real* contester and even less a *real* DXer. I do have 
QSOs with DX stations on several bands. But I don't reject QSOs with 
U.S. or Canadian stations (Canada is only a small handful of miles from 
here). I have looked at the "two" sides of this same issue and I can see 
both sides, too. I also observed a scarcity of smoke and flames. That is 
appreciated here, too.


About heresy (or not). I no longer have the resources - including the 
space - to install the large antennas required for DX contesting or 
challenges. At this point in my life I am *not* going to have those 
resources. So I use 160 meters more casually. In fact, I'm having 
technical difficulty with the radios but I'll work my way through that. 
So maybe being on a list named "TopBand" is not really heresy. The other 
part of the list name involves the host - "Contesting.com". I have the 
same 'casual' approach to contesting. For me it is more of 
"participating in on-air events. On Top Band my 'contest' would be the 
Stew Perry. Or maybe some of the QSO parties and "sprints" with activity 
on Top Band.


It's all good. I'll see you on the air.

73,

Bill  KU8H



On 07/12/2015 09:32 AM, n...@comcast.net wrote:

Good morning. I have followed with interest the discussion on this subject. I 
enjoyed hearing both sides of the issue from my fellow DXers. Most of the 
replies have been both thoughtful and respectful and I thank you for that.
I thought you may find it interesting to hear a comment from the perspective of 
an RHR user. Perhaps some of the others who comment also used that service 
(which seems to have triggered this debate) but I don't remember seeing that. I 
have been an RHR customer for two years. I have been a DXer for the entire 42 
years of my amateur career. Climbing the DX Challenge ladder is my principal 
goal. I have a home station focused on 6, 80 and 160. 93.5% of the entities I 
need for the Challenge are on these three bands. I have a full sized quarter 
wave vertical for 160 (and 8 560 ' beverages), a 4 square for 80 and a 9 
element M2 at 80' for 6. The station works well and has been productive. But as 
you know from 160 propagation is finicky. And for those who have not spent time 
on 6, it is even more so there. I rent the RHR stations because they give me 
more opportunities to work new ones for the Challenge. It is simply another 
tool I use to accomplish my goal. And unless the DXCC rul

es

   change I will continue to do so. I appreciate, and respect, those who feel 
this somehow violates the spirit of the DXCC program. I simply do not agree.
Ham radio has always had a prickly relationship with technology. On one hand we love the 
cool gadgets and the hobby would die without them. On the other, it forces us to deal 
with change. Anyone remember the debate about using packet clusters to work DX? 
"Shooting fish in a barrel" was a common criticism of those who used that 
technology. Remember when there was a move to ban from DXCC credit qsos made on a list?
I suspect remote technology is here to stay; the ARRL BOD has already spoken 
once on that matter and were quite clear. What I would suggest is view this 
technology as simply a tool; available to all willing to pay the fee (just like 
our expensive radios, antennas, amps, etc.) . Use it or don't use it. The 
choice is yours. Best, Steve, NN4T
_




_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: The Remote Question..

[Mike Greenway]

Sad indeed to see the post this morning.  The idiom “the means justify the end” 
is true in this case for sure.  I guess eventually the rules will say lets just 
call them on the phone and exchange reports, as we are near that with remotes 
now.  That makes it easier and I guess that is what everyone wants as in 
school, if too many students are failing lets make the test easier.  

I will not take the easy way out to increase my Challenge totals although that 
is my primary goal in radio these days.  The spirit and challenge of what DXCC 
was meant to be has eroded for sure.  If that makes you feel good jumping coast 
to coast for the best prop, go for it.  I always wondered why I was being beat 
out on 160 and 6 by certain 4 land stations and I can ignore their Challenge 
totals now that I know they don’t really believe it is a true Challenge.  Don’t 
use technology as part of the argument.  73 Mike K4PI
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: The Remote question

[Larry Burke]

Will the last guy who actually emits RF from his station please remember to
turn off the rig.

K5RK


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: The Remote question

[nn4t]

Good morning. I have followed with interest the discussion on this subject. I 
enjoyed hearing both sides of the issue from my fellow DXers. Most of the 
replies have been both thoughtful and respectful and I thank you for that. 
I thought you may find it interesting to hear a comment from the perspective of 
an RHR user. Perhaps some of the others who comment also used that service 
(which seems to have triggered this debate) but I don't remember seeing that. I 
have been an RHR customer for two years. I have been a DXer for the entire 42 
years of my amateur career. Climbing the DX Challenge ladder is my principal 
goal. I have a home station focused on 6, 80 and 160. 93.5% of the entities I 
need for the Challenge are on these three bands. I have a full sized quarter 
wave vertical for 160 (and 8 560 ' beverages), a 4 square for 80 and a 9 
element M2 at 80' for 6. The station works well and has been productive. But as 
you know from 160 propagation is finicky. And for those who have not spent time 
on 6, it is even more so there. I rent the RHR stations because they give me 
more opportunities to work new ones for the Challenge. It is simply another 
tool I use to accomplish my goal. And unless the DXCC rules
  change I will continue to do so. I appreciate, and respect, those who feel 
this somehow violates the spirit of the DXCC program. I simply do not agree. 
Ham radio has always had a prickly relationship with technology. On one hand we 
love the cool gadgets and the hobby would die without them. On the other, it 
forces us to deal with change. Anyone remember the debate about using packet 
clusters to work DX? "Shooting fish in a barrel" was a common criticism of 
those who used that technology. Remember when there was a move to ban from DXCC 
credit qsos made on a list? 
I suspect remote technology is here to stay; the ARRL BOD has already spoken 
once on that matter and were quite clear. What I would suggest is view this 
technology as simply a tool; available to all willing to pay the fee (just like 
our expensive radios, antennas, amps, etc.) . Use it or don't use it. The 
choice is yours. Best, Steve, NN4T 
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Fwd: ARRL Board meets next week - I'm looking for input

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

Do you get the impression that the ARRL has always been lagging behind 
dragging their feet and slow to  grasp the many advances in our hobby 
that lie ahead? This is evidenced by their collective inability to make 
needed upgrades to programs and contest rules. A perfect example is the 
ARRL 160 meter contest which clearly punishes stations located in the 
U.S. Territories by counting them as ARRL states rather than DX like 
they really are.  Many have begged and pleaded for change by following 
the suggested procedures of writing the CAC and Directors for nearly two 
decades.  All attempts are ignored and everything remains the same.  Why 
does this not surprise you?



Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 7/12/2015 12:19 AM, W0MU wrote:
Boxbe  This message is eligible for 
Automatic Cleanup! (w...@w0mu.com) Add cleanup rule 
 
| More info 
 


While the horse and carriage still exist very few use them.

I am sorry you feel badly about ham radio as we have had some very 
amazing advancesWeak signal programs are amazing.


On 7/11/2015 10:09 AM, Roger D Johnson wrote:
I sat down to write an intelligent response to the remote question 
but realized
I don't really care anymore. The Amateur Radio that I grew up with, 
and loved,
is gone forever. Thanks to the ARRL and the FCC, it has been "dumbed 
down"

and deregulated to the point where it's just another Citizens Band.

73, Roger


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: DXCC for rented remote stations

[Ron Spencer]

I will also send my feedback to my ARRL section manager.

I see no issue with giving DXCC credit to stations that work DX via a
remote and/ or rented station. I see it being the same as someone that has
a QTH on both coasts. They can travel between them and work DX which counts
towards their DXCC. To make it even a more direct comparison say one of the
stations is remote controlled.

DXCC is an award for personal achievement. Why do I care how someone else
got theirs? I care about how I got mine. I moved from the west coast to the
east and decided to start my country count over knowing that, according to
the DXCC rules, I didn't need to. I wanted the country count to reflect my
efforts from each location. It was a personal choice.

Ron  N4XD
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband